Some people claim, that there's a human to blame …

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

There seem to be a host of people out there who want to discuss whether humanoids are responsible for the post ~1850 rise in the amount of CO2. People seem madly passionate about this question. So I figure I’ll deal with it by employing the method I used in the 1960s to fire off dynamite shots when I was in the road-building game … light the fuse, and run like hell …

First, the data, as far as it is known. What we have to play with are several lines of evidence, some of which are solid, and some not so solid. These break into three groups: data about the atmospheric levels, data about the emissions, and data about the isotopes.

The most solid of the atmospheric data, as we have been discussing, is the Mauna Loa CO2 data. This in turn is well supported by the ice core data. Here’s what they look like for the last thousand years:

Figure 1. Mauna Loa CO2 data (orange circles), and CO2 data from 8 separate ice cores. Fuji ice core data is analyzed by two methods (wet and dry). Siple ice core data is analyzed by two different groups (Friedli et al., and Neftel et al.). You can see why Michael Mann is madly desirous of establishing the temperature hockeystick … otherwise, he has to explain the Medieval Warm Period without recourse to CO2. Photo shows the outside of the WAIS ice core drilling shed.

So here’s the battle plan:

I’m going to lay out and discuss the data and the major issues as I understand them, and tell you what I think. Then y’all can pick it all apart. Let me preface this by saying that I do think that the recent increase in CO2 levels is due to human activities.

Issue 1. The shape of the historical record.

I will start with Figure 1. As you can see, there is excellent agreement between the eight different ice cores, including the different methods and different analysts for two of the cores. There is also excellent agreement between the ice cores and the Mauna Loa data. Perhaps the agreement is coincidence. Perhaps it is conspiracy. Perhaps it is simple error. Me, I think it represents a good estimate of the historical background CO2 record.

So if you are going to believe that this is not a result of human activities, it would help to answer the question of what else might have that effect. It is not necessary to provide an alternative hypothesis if you disbelieve that humans are the cause … but it would help your case. Me, I can’t think of any obvious other explanation for that precipitous recent rise.

Issue 2. Emissions versus Atmospheric Levels and Sequestration

There are a couple of datasets that give us amounts of CO2 emissions from human activities. The first is the CDIAC emissions dataset. This gives the annual emissions (as tonnes of carbon, not CO2) separately for fossil fuel gas, liquids, and solids. It also gives the amounts for cement production and gas flaring.

The second dataset is much less accurate. It is an estimate of the emissions from changes in land use and land cover, or “LU/LC” as it is known … what is a science if it doesn’t have acronyms? The most comprehensive dataset I’ve found for this is the Houghton dataset. Here are the emissions as shown by those two datasets:

Figure 2. Anthropogenic (human-caused) emissions from fossil fuel burning and cement manufacture (blue line), land use/land cover (LU/LC) changes (white line), and the total of the two (red line).

While this is informative, and looks somewhat like the change in atmospheric CO2, we need something to compare the two directly. The magic number to do this is the number of gigatonnes (billions of tonnes, 1 * 10^9) of carbon that it takes to change the atmospheric CO2 concentration by 1 ppmv. This turns out to be 2.13 gigatonnes  of carbon (C) per 1 ppmv.

Using that relationship, we can compare emissions and atmospheric CO2 directly. Figure 3 looks at the cumulative emissions since 1850, along with the atmospheric changes (converted from ppmv to gigatonnes C). When we do so, we see an interesting relationship. Not all of the emitted CO2 ends up in the atmosphere. Some is sequestered (absorbed) by the natural systems of the earth.

Figure 3. Total emissions (fossil, cement, & LU/LC), amount remaining in the atmosphere, and amount sequestered.

Here we see that not all of the carbon that is emitted (in the form of CO2) remains in the atmosphere. Some is absorbed by some combination of the ocean, the biosphere, and the land. How are we to understand this?

To do so, we need to consider a couple of often conflated measurements. One is the residence time of CO2. This is the amount of time that the average CO2 molecule stays in the atmosphere. It can be calculated in a couple of ways, and is likely about 6–8 years.

The other measure, often confused with the first, is the half-life, or alternately the e-folding time of CO2. Suppose we put a pulse of CO2 into an atmospheric system which is at some kind of equilibrium. The pulse will slowly decay, and after a certain time, the system will return to equilibrium. This is called “exponential decay”, since a certain percentage of the excess is removed each year. The strength of the exponential decay is usually measured as the amount of time it takes for the pulse to decay to half its original value (half-life) or to 1/e (0.37) of its original value (e-folding time). The length of this decay (half-life or e-folding time) is much more difficult to calculate than the residence time. The IPCC says it is somewhere between 90 and 200 years. I say it is much less, as does Jacobson.

Now, how can we determine if it is actually the case that we are looking at exponential decay of the added CO2? One way is to compare it to what a calculated exponential decay would look like. Here’s the result, using an e-folding time of 31 years:

Figure 4. Total cumulative emissions (fossil, cement, & LU/LC), cumulative amount remaining in the atmosphere, and cumulative amount sequestered. Calculated sequestered amount (yellow line) and calculated airborne amount (black) are shown as well.

As you can see, the assumption of exponential decay fits the observed data quite well, supporting the idea that the excess atmospheric carbon is indeed from human activities.

Issue 3. 12C and 13C carbon isotopes

Carbon has a couple of natural isotopes, 12C and 13C. 12C is lighter than 13C. Plants preferentially use the lighter isotope (12C). As a result, plant derived materials (including fossil fuels) have a lower amount of 13C with respect to 12C (a lower 13C/12C ratio).

It is claimed (I have not looked very deeply into this) that since about 1850 the amount of 12C in the atmosphere has been increasing. There are several lines of evidence for this: 13C/12C ratios in tree rings, 13C/12C ratios in the ocean, and 13C/12C ratios in sponges. Together, they suggest that the cause of the post 1850 CO2 rise is fossil fuel burning.

However, there are problems with this. For example, here is a Nature article called “Problems in interpreting tree-ring δ 13C records”. The abstract says (emphasis mine):

THE stable carbon isotopic (13C/12C) record of twentieth-century tree rings has been examined1-3 for evidence of the effects of the input of isotopically lighter fossil fuel CO2 (δ 13C~-25‰ relative to the primary PDB standard4), since the onset of major fossil fuel combustion during the mid-nineteenth century, on the 13C/12C ratio of atmospheric CO2(δ 13C~-7‰), which is assimilated by trees by photosynthesis. The decline in δ13C up to 1930 observed in several series of tree-ring measurements has exceeded that anticipated from the input of fossil fuel CO2 to the atmosphere, leading to suggestions of an additional input ‰) during the late nineteenth/early twentieth century. Stuiver has suggested that a lowering of atmospheric δ 13C of 0.7‰, from 1860 to 1930 over and above that due to fossil fuel CO2 can be attributed to a net biospheric CO2 (δ 13C~-25‰) release comparable, in fact, to the total fossil fuel CO2 flux from 1850 to 1970. If information about the role of the biosphere as a source of or a sink for CO2 in the recent past can be derived from tree-ring 13C/12C data it could prove useful in evaluating the response of the whole dynamic carbon cycle to increasing input of fossil fuel CO2 and thus in predicting potential climatic change through the greenhouse effect of resultant atmospheric CO2 concentrations. I report here the trend (Fig. 1a) in whole wood δ 13C from 1883 to 1968 for tree rings of an American elm, grown in a non-forest environment at sea level in Falmouth, Cape Cod, Massachusetts (41°34’N, 70°38’W) on the northeastern coast of the US. Examination of the δ 13C trends in the light of various potential influences demonstrates the difficulty of attributing fluctuations in 13C/12C ratios to a unique cause and suggests that comparison of pre-1850 ratios with temperature records could aid resolution of perturbatory parameters in the twentieth century.

This isotopic line of argument seems like the weakest one to me. The total flux of carbon through the atmosphere is about 211 gigtonnes plus the human contribution. This means that the human contribution to the atmospheric flux ranged from ~2.7% in 1978 to 4% in 2008. During that time, the average of the 11 NOAA measuring stations value for the 13C/12C ratio decreased by -0.7 per mil.

Now, the atmosphere has ~ -7 per mil 13C/12C. Given that, for the amount of CO2 added to the atmosphere to cause a 0.7 mil drop, the added CO2 would need to have had a 13C/12C of around -60 per mil.

But fossil fuels in the current mix have a 13C/12C ration of ~ -28 per mil, only about half of that requried to make such a change. So it is clear that the fossil fuel burning is not the sole cause of the change in the atmospheric 13C/12C ratio. Note that this is the same finding as in the Nature article.

In addition, from an examination of the year-by-year changes it is obvious that there are other large scale effects on the global 13C/12C ratio. From 1984 to 1986, it increased by 0.03 per mil. From ’86 to ’89, it decreased by -0.2. And from ’89 to ’92, it didn’t change at all. Why?

However, at least the sign of the change in atmospheric 13C/12C ratio (decreasing) is in agreement with with theory that at least part of it is from anthropogenic CO2 production from fossil fuel burning.

CONCLUSION

As I said, I think that the preponderance of evidence shows that humans are the main cause of the increase in atmospheric CO2. It is unlikely that the change in CO2 is from the overall temperature increase. During the ice age to interglacial transitions, on average a change of 7°C led to a doubling of CO2. We have seen about a tenth of that change (0.7°C) since 1850, so we’d expect a CO2 change from temperature alone of only about 20 ppmv.

Given all of the issues discussed above, I say humans are responsible for the change in atmospheric CO2 … but obviously, for lots of people, YMMV. Also, please be aware that I don’t think that the change in CO2 will make any meaningful difference to the temperature, for reasons that I explain here.

So having taken a look at the data, we have finally arrived at …

RULES FOR THE DISCUSSION OF ATTRIBUTION OF THE CO2 RISE

1. Numbers trump assertions. If you don’t provide numbers, you won’t get much traction.

2. Ad hominems are meaningless. Saying that some scientist is funded by big oil, or is a member of Greenpeace, or is a geologist rather than an atmospheric physicist, is meaningless. What is important is whether what they say is true or not. Focus on the claims and their veracity, not on the sources of the claims. Sources mean nothing.

3. Appeals to authority are equally meaningless. Who cares what the 12-member Board of the National Academy of Sciences says? Science isn’t run by a vote … thank goodness.

4. Make your cites specific. “The IPCC says …” is useless. “Chapter 7 of the IPCC AR4 says …” is useless. Cite us chapter and verse, specify page and paragraph. I don’t want to have to dig through an entire paper or an IPCC chapter to guess at which one line you are talking about.

5. QUOTE WHAT YOU DISAGREE WITH!!! I can’t stress this enough. Far too often, people attack something that another person hasn’t said. Quote their words, the exact words you think are mistaken, so we can all see if you have understood what they are saying.

6. NO PERSONAL ATTACKS!!! Repeat after me. No personal attacks. No “only a fool would believe …”. No “Are you crazy?”. No speculation about a person’s motives. No “deniers”, no “warmists”, no “econazis”, none of the above. Play nice.

OK, countdown to mayhem in 3, 2, 1 … I’m outta here.

Get notified when a new post is published.
Subscribe today!
0 0 votes
Article Rating
611 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
anna v
June 9, 2010 7:59 am

Willis Eschenbach says:
June 9, 2010 at 2:12 am
Anna, I truly don’t understand your point. Suppose for the moment that your idea is true, and that the CO2 is not “well mixed”, whatever that might mean to you.
So what? What does that have to do with the question of whether humans are responsible for the recent increase in CO2, well mixed or not?

The association is made that since the CO2 curve is going up in an unprecedented way, your figure 1, the cause is anthropogenic. You make this conclusion yourself.
If CO2 is not well mixed, and there are equally high values over the globe over the last two centuries, it has no meaning to take the measurements on a longitude in the middle of the ocean at 2000 meters and call it “global CO2” . To call it global CO2 you would need to integrate over the globe and if that curve showed unprecedented rise there would be an argument for the anthropogenic part.
So even if the measurements of the Keeling curves are not doctored to show this “unprecedented” rise, still, unless a full global picture is measured we cannot know. We have indications from Beck’s compilations and from the Japanese preliminaries in any case.
There is variation going down in latitude too as the plots of H.Haynie show.
I think the “well mixed’ is the lynch pin on which the “anthropogenic” depends, so it is not a red herring. It is how they integrate from a few locations to all over the world.
Fred H. Haynie says:
June 9, 2010 at 6:38 am
I suspect both the Mauna Loa and Southpole Scripps CO2 data have been adjusted to sea level to compensate for the gravitational effect.
It is quite possible considering the mentality of the “scientists” working in the climate field: “this is how nature is, better find it or else”.

Editor
June 9, 2010 8:01 am

Phil
Just saw your clarification above Anna’s reply, thanks.
Tonyb

Murray Duffin
June 9, 2010 8:08 am

Willis, wrt your 8 sets of data – see Lundgardh, Van Slyke, Scholander and Law Dome DE08-2. Given the long closing time of the ice DE08-2 largely represents concentration in air, not ice, and it continues a pretty smooth curve with the other 3 sources that is about 15 ppm above the ice core data in the first year of your curve. You can extrapolate back farther using the high confidence level Beck data, and you have air 20 to 30 ppm above the ice core in the early to mid 19th century. I think we can safely say that the ice core loses some atmospheric concentration through at least 3 different mechanisms as the ice closes and as samples are taken and analyzed. Hence the hocky stick is not quite so bad as presented, with concentration up about 70 ppm rather than 100 ppm since preindustrial measures.
Certainly with 70 to 180 years for the ice to close (depending on location and rate of snow accumulation), short term peaks get smoothed (clearly visible in the ice at WW2). It is not unlikely that depressurization at time of coring leads to a fairly constant level near 270 ppm, eliminating longer term peaks. And there is some contribution from fractionation during closing also that reduces fern bottom concentration at least a bit.
I strongly suspect that ice core data is worthless in terms of displaying a useful historic record, but that’s just my opinion. Murray

anna v
June 9, 2010 8:51 am

Phil. says:
June 9, 2010 at 7:46 am
I really would like to see some measurements and calculations of this homosphere business. Do you have a link? To me it sounds like an assumption. Mixing length? How is that measured or calculated?
The atmosphere is not always turbulent, and its turbulence is not uniform. There are circulation patterns, complete lulls, etc. etc. while the sources and sinks of CO2 keep going on and on .

June 9, 2010 8:58 am

Phil. says @7:11 am:
“Mann’s ‘trick’ is not what some say it is!”
Mann’s trick is not what you say it is, true. But that is a red herring. He used a couple of other tricks to misrepresent.
Spector says @6:16 am:
“I believe that the data presented in figure 1 of this article, if valid, would tend to support the Dr. Mann’s hypothesis that overall global temperatures have remained constant from Y1000 to Y1800 and that the medieval warm period and little ice-age periods were probably local North Atlantic regional weather anomalies.”
Every once in a while someone comes back and tries to flog the dead horse of a regional, rather than a global MWP.
Do a search of the WUWT archives using the keyword: MWP. You can get up to speed, but it may take a while; the amount of information is voluminous. Or you can use this interactive graphic to search the globe.

Bart
June 9, 2010 10:03 am

Murray Duffin says:
June 9, 2010 at 8:08 am
“I strongly suspect that ice core data is worthless in terms of displaying a useful historic record, but that’s just my opinion.”
I want to point out that, without the ice core data, the “smoking gun” fit in Willis’ Figure 4 is nothing more than an arbitrary scaling to fit one increasing slope to another.
To those who dwell on superficial resemblances, the inflections around 1950 in both the emissions estimates and the CO2 data are convincers. But, the inflection in the CO2 data is surely an artifact of the splice between proxy and direct measurement data, and has even less justification if the ice core data are bad. I have a strong suspicion that the inflection in the emissions data is no accident – it would not be difficult for the keepers of records to tweak the data to produce it, if one desired to do so, and if one knew where one wanted to place it.
My final word to Willis: I urge you to examine the requirements for consistency in your modeling which I advised at June 7, 2010 at 11:16 pm.

June 9, 2010 10:06 am

anna v says:
June 9, 2010 at 8:51 am
Phil. says:
June 9, 2010 at 7:46 am
I really would like to see some measurements and calculations of this homosphere business. Do you have a link? To me it sounds like an assumption. Mixing length? How is that measured or calculated?

Any textbook on the physics of atmospheres should cover it, the following is well written but someone with a physics background such as yourself should be able to handle any of them.
“Chemistry of Atmospheres: An Introduction to the Chemistry of the Atmospheres of Earth, the Planets, and Their Satellites”, Richard P. Wayne, Oxford Science Publications.
The atmosphere is not always turbulent, and its turbulence is not uniform. There are circulation patterns, complete lulls, etc. etc. while the sources and sinks of CO2 keep going on and on .
Over the lifetime of the CO2 it’s plenty turbulent enough (don’t forget the diffusion part). Once you get out of the boundary layer the air is usually moving in any case.
In your living room with all fans, AC etc. switched off have someone open a bottle of perfume in the opposite corner of the room, how long is it before you smell it?
In the homosphere the N2/O2 ratio remains constant with altitude, also Ar (which has a MW of 40) has a constant mixing fraction with altitude. In contrast in the heterosphere molecules are sorted by mass.

June 9, 2010 10:23 am

Phil,
The air isn’t always mixing. CO2 will hug the surface on a clear no wind night when the surface is cooling by radiation. I know the difference between water and air and have worked with turbulent diffusion in my research. The Scripps data is considered well mixed because the daily flask data used to calculate monthly averages are only used when there is enough wind to have turbulence.

Spector
June 9, 2010 10:31 am

RE: Smokey (June 9, 2010 at 8:58 am) “dead horse”
Figure 1, above, would seem to indicate that CO2 concentrations were flat, perhaps contained within a narrow 265 to 285 ppm band over the whole period from Y1000 to Y1750. If we accept this as true and valid data indicating that the average global climate was constant during the whole interval — I am not ready to do that yet — then we may be forced to admit that the regional climate horse is not as dead as we thought it was.

June 9, 2010 10:41 am

Phil said.
“Over the lifetime of the CO2 it’s plenty turbulent enough (don’t forget the diffusion part). Once you get out of the boundary layer the air is usually moving in any case.
In your living room with all fans, AC etc. switched off have someone open a bottle of perfume in the opposite corner of the room, how long is it before you smell it?
In the homosphere the N2/O2 ratio remains constant with altitude, also Ar (which has a MW of 40) has a constant mixing fraction with altitude. In contrast in the heterosphere molecules are sorted by mass.”
What do you think the halflife is of CO2 hugging a cooling ocean surface on a cold clear night? In the same way it concentrates in forest canopies where the halflife can be a matter of hours. There could be a whole lot of CO2 that never gets out of this layer into turbulent conditions.

Editor
June 9, 2010 11:59 am

Willis/Anna/Phil
Any idea what period this is over i.e would it take a constant 1 degree C rise a year to outgas 8ppm, or a month or week?
tonyb

June 9, 2010 12:47 pm

Willis Eschenbach says:
June 9, 2010 at 12:39 pm
Spector says:
June 9, 2010 at 10:31 am
RE: Smokey (June 9, 2010 at 8:58 am) “dead horse”
“Figure 1, above, would seem to indicate that CO2 concentrations were flat, perhaps contained within a narrow 265 to 285 ppm band over the whole period from Y1000 to Y1750. If we accept this as true and valid data indicating that the average global climate was constant during the whole interval — I am not ready to do that yet — then we may be forced to admit that the regional climate horse is not as dead as we thought it was.”
Say what? This is global CO2 data, not global climate data. It says very little about the climate. We would expect a change in global background CO2 of ~ 8 ppmv/°C, which is smaller than the margin of error in the ice core measurements. So all we can conclude from this about the climate is … nothing.

In fact a range of ~20ppmv in the core implies a range of global temperature of ~3ºC over that timespan (hardly constant!) which is exactly the opposite of Smokey’s statement.

anna v
June 9, 2010 12:48 pm

tonyb says:
June 9, 2010 at 11:59 am

Willis/Anna/Phil
Any idea what period this is over i.e would it take a constant 1 degree C rise a year to outgas 8ppm, or a month or week?
tonyb

The value is the equilibrium value for that temperature of the ocean, at least as far as the calculation I gave you a link to. In terms of time, it would be the same time where the difference in temperatures is observed. Given the temperature of the ocean, the ppms are the equilibrium ones.

anna v
June 9, 2010 12:55 pm

Phil. says:
June 9, 2010 at 10:06 am
Thanks, I will have to go to a library, if I do not find any links.

Editor
June 9, 2010 12:55 pm

Anna
Just read your link, it’s very good. I believe sea temperatures are even more suspect than global temperatures and taking a very limited number of measuring points then averaging it does not give a realistic picture of what is happening at the ocean/air interchange.
For example our piece of ocean (the English Channel) 200 yards from my house will range from 7 degrees C in winter to (if we are lucky) around 20C in a warm summer. So in theory it is outgasing madly from now on in, then will be sucking it all back in as it cools again in the Autumn. But does that mean it is outgasing at 15C on the way up yet absorbing at 15C when it comes back down again? Is the huge variability of temperatures in medium latitude oceans countered by the limited variabilty of temperature in tropical oceans, whilst at the same time the arctic and antarctic are also exactly countering each other in order that we can then come up with an ‘average’ ocean temperature that barely changes, and in consequence CO2 outgasing by it is barely noticeable?
Surely the net result of all this is that temperatures have risen and fallen dramatically throughout our history with a supposedly constant level of Co2 at 280ppm and that this gas really doesn’t seem to have much to do with anything let alone CAGW.
http://c3headlines.typepad.com/.a/6a010536b58035970c0120a7c87805970b-pi
Tonyb

Spector
June 9, 2010 1:03 pm

RE Willis Eschenbach: (June 9, 2010 at 11:50 am ) “You believe wrong..” — I hope so — “… The logical conclusion is not that Mann is correct. It is that CO2 has almost no effect on global temperature.”
The issue that bothers me here is not the effect of CO2 on temperature; rather it is the absolute absence of any effect of temperature on the observed the atmospheric CO2 levels. During global cold intervals, I expect to see more CO2 dissolved in the ocean and during global warm periods, see more CO2 in the atmosphere because the oceanic CO2 carrying capacity (solubility) is temperature dependent.

Ryan
June 9, 2010 1:10 pm

“During the ice age to interglacial transitions, on average a change of 7°C led to a doubling of CO2.”
We don’t know that. You are presenting that as fact when it is not. The ice core data is the only useful source of such information and it presents CO2 concentrations that are averaged over periods of hundreds of years. We don’t know what the natural variation in CO2 might be over much shorter periods.
Note that the Mauna Loa data shows a gradual uninterrupted rise in CO2 when the output of human CO2 is not smooth and is interrupted by recessions that reduce the consumption of energy significantly.

Bart
June 9, 2010 1:12 pm

Willis Eschenbach says:
June 9, 2010 at 11:52 am
“And my claim that the change in CO2 was not due to global temperature change was correct.”
Er,… I don’t think so.

anna v
June 9, 2010 1:18 pm

googling “Physics of the homosphere,” I found a book open on the net by Gerd.W.Prolss ( needs an umlaut).
It has the mathematics, it will take me some time to wade through. Have not found data yet.

Gail Combs
June 9, 2010 1:33 pm

anna v says:
June 8, 2010 at 9:38 pm
Thanks for the chemist POV.
I have been looking at this “well mixed” from a physicist POV and it seems basic science agrees 🙂 in the principles.
________________________________________________________________________
“Well mixed” is a fallacy because rain (and fog and dew) is constantly removing CO2 from parts of the atmosphere. “Carbonic acid even appears as a normal occurrence in rain. As rainwater falls through the air, it absorbs carbon dioxide, producing carbonic acid. Thus, when it reaches the ground, it has a pH of about 5.5.”
One of the more interesting bits of info I noticed is the time line.
Mauna Loa CO2 measurements were started in 1959
Club of Rome: Founded in 1968 at David Rockefeller’s estate in Bellagio, Italy
Club of Rome member Henry Kissinger in 1970 states “Control oil and you control nations; control food and you control the people; control money and you control the world.”
The concept of ‘environmental sustainability’ is first brought to the general public’s attention in 1972 by the Club of Rome in their book entitled The Limits to Growth.
At the same time CoR affiliate Maurice Strong chaired the UN first Earth Summit:
“It is instructive to read Strong’s 1972 Stockholm speech and compare it with the issues of Earth Summit 1992. Strong warned urgently about global warming, the devastation of forests, the loss of biodiversity, polluted oceans, the population time bomb. Then as now, he invited to the conference the brand-new environmental NGOs [non-governmental organizations]: he gave them money to come; they were invited to raise hell at home. After Stockholm, environment issues became part of the administrative framework in Canada, the U.S., Britain, and Europe. “ Source
Twenty years later the CoR published The First Global Revolution in which they state:
“The common enemy of humanity is man.
In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up
with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming,
water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these
dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through
changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome.
The real enemy then, is humanity itself.”

A listing of who is who in the Club of Rome will give you an idea of just how powerful this organization is. We have already seen the temperature data has been “manipulated” to support AGW. We have seen them try to rewrite history by removing the little Ice Age and the Medieval Warm period so why the heck do people here suddenly believe the CO2 data, gathered by the US government is pristine?
OK so I do not trust the US government, on the other hand I have caught the US gov’t lying too many times to ever trust it again.

Steve Fitzpatrick
June 9, 2010 1:44 pm

Willis,
“Ah, well. I can’t complain, I lit the fuse and I failed to run …”
True, but you did maybe make a tiny bit of progress with a few… was it worth the effort?

1 16 17 18 19 20 25