Editorializing about the Editorial

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

I just got my printed copy of the May 7th issue of Science Magazine, and I read their Editorial. This is the issue that contained the now-infamous Letter to the Editor with the Photoshopped image of a polar bear on an ice floe. An alternate version of that Photoshopped image is below:

Figure 1. Photoshopped version of a Photoshopped image of a Photoshopped Polar bear.

So is the Editorial as one-sided as the Letter? Surprisingly, no. There are some excellent ideas and statements in it … but it contains some egregious errors of fact, and some curious assertions and exaggerations. I have emphasised in bold those interesting parts below. First, the Editorial:

Stepping Back; Moving Forward

Brooks Hanson

Brooks Hanson is Deputy Editor for physical sciences at Science.

The controversial e-mails related to climate change, plus reported errors in the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) reports, have spurred a dangerous deterioration in the rational relation between science and society. One U.S. senator has called 17 prominent climate scientists criminals, and pundits have suggested that climate scientists should commit suicide. Fourteen U.S. states have filed lawsuits opposing the federal regulation of greenhouse gas emissions, some asserting that “climate change science is a conspiracy.” South Dakota even resolved that there are other “astrological” forcings on climate. Scientists have been barraged by hateful e-mails. The debate has become polarized, and the distrust of scientists and their findings extends well beyond climate science. What can be done to repair society’s trust in science? A broader perspective is needed on all sides.

The main societal challenges—global energy supply, growing the food supply, and improving public health, among others—depend intimately on science, and for this reason society requires a vigorous scientific enterprise. Our expanding global economy is taxing resources and the environment in ways that cannot be sustained. Science provides a deep understanding of these impacts and, as a result, the ability to predict consequences and assess risks.

Addressing anthropogenic climate change exemplifies the challenges inherent in providing critical scientific advice to society (see the Policy Forum on p. 695 and Letter on p. 689). Climate is as global as today’s economy; we know from archaeological and historical records that an unstable climate has disrupted societies. For these reasons, scientists and governments are jointly committed to understanding the impacts of climate change. Thousands of scientists have volunteered for the IPCC or other assessments. Governments have a vested interest in the success of these assessments, and the stakes are high.

We thus must move beyond polarizing arguments in ways that strengthen this joint commitment. The scientific community must recognize that the recent attacks stem in part from its culture and scientists’ behavior. In turn, it is time to focus on the main problem: The IPCC reports have underestimated the pace of climate change while overestimating societies’ abilities to curb greenhouse gas emissions.

Scientists must meet other responsibilities. The ability to collect, model, and analyze huge data sets is one of the great recent advances in science and has made possible our understanding of global impacts. But developing the infrastructure and practices required for handling data, and a commitment to collect it systematically, have lagged. Scientists have struggled to address standardizing, storing, and sharing data, and privacy concerns. Funding must be directed not only toward basic science but toward facilitating better decisions made with the data and analyses that are produced. As a start, research grants should specify a data curation plan, and there should be a greater focus on long-term monitoring of the environment.

Because society’s major problems are complex, generating useful scientific advice requires synthesizing knowledge from diverse disciplines. As the need for synthesis grows, the avenues of communication are changing rapidly. Unfortunately, many news organizations have eviscerated their science staffs. As a result, stories derived from press releases on specific results are crowding out the thoughtful syntheses that are needed.

If the scientific community does not aggressively address these issues, including communicating its process of discovery and recognizing its modern data responsibilities, and if society does not constructively engage science, then the scientific enterprise and the whole of society are in danger of losing their crucial rational relationship. Carl Sagan’s warnings are especially apt today: “We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology.” “This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.”

So, what’s wrong with the statements I highlighted in bold? Well, they’re not true. Let’s look at them one by one.

One U.S. senator has called 17 prominent climate scientists criminals…

Presumably, this refers to the Senate Minority Report by Senator Inhofe. However, he did not call 17 climate scientists criminals. In fact he does not use that word at all in connection with scientists. Instead, he made a much more nuanced series of statements:

In our view, the CRU documents and emails reveal, among other things, unethical and potentially illegal behavior by some of the world’s preeminent climate scientists.

and:

The released CRU emails and documents display unethical, and possibly illegal, behavior. The scientists appear to discuss manipulating data to get their preferred results. On several occasions they appear to discuss subverting the scientific peer review process to ensure that skeptical papers had no access to publication. Moreover, there are emails discussing unjustified changes to data by federal employees and federal grantees.

These and other issues raise questions about the lawful use of federal funds and potential ethical misconduct.

and

Minority Staff has identified a preliminary sampling of CRU emails and documents which seriously compromise the IPCC-backed “consensus” and its central conclusion that anthropogenic emissions are inexorably leading to environmental catastrophes, and which represent unethical and possibly illegal conduct by top IPCC scientists, among others.

So Brooks Hanson starts out with a false and misleading statement. Inhofe did not “call 17 prominent climate scientists criminals”, that’s simply not true. He said that some of their actions appeared to be possibly illegal … and me, I’d have to agree with the Senator.

On the other side of the pond, whether some of them were criminals was addressed by the UK Parliament Committee, who said:

There is prima facie evidence that CRU has breached the Freedom of Information Act 2000. It would, however, be premature, without a thorough investigation affording each party the opportunity to make representations, to conclude that UEA was in breach of the Act. In our view, it is unsatisfactory to leave the matter unresolved simply because of the operation of the six- month time limit on the initiation of prosecutions.

So it was only because the Statute of Limitations on any criminal offenses had expired that there were no criminal investigations of the acts … sounds like a validation of Senator Inhofe’s claim of “possibly illegal” to me …

… pundits have suggested that climate scientists should commit suicide.

Presumably, this refers to Glen Beck’s statement that:

There’s not enough knives. If this, if the IPCC had been done by Japanese scientists, there’s not enough knives on planet Earth for hara-kiri that should have occurred. I mean, these guys have so dishonored themselves, so dishonored scientists.

I find no other “pundits” who have “suggested that climate scientists should commit suicide”. Nor did Beck. He said that if the IPCC scientists who made the errors and misrepresentations were Japanese, they would have committed suicide from the shame. Now that may or may not be true, but is not a call for American scientists to act Japanese, even Beck knows that’s not possible.

Fourteen U.S. states have filed lawsuits opposing the federal regulation of greenhouse gas emissions, some asserting that “climate change science is a conspiracy.”

I find no State (or any other) lawsuits making this claim against climate scientists, although I might have missed them. Curiously, there was a case (Ned Comer, et al. v. Murphy Oil USA) where the claim was made the other way around, that there was a “civil conspiracy” among the oil companies to deny climate change. But I find nothing the other way.

I suspect that Brooks Hanson is referring (incorrectly) to the Resolution passed in Utah that states:

WHEREAS, emails and other communications between climate researchers around the globe, referred to as “Climategate,” indicate a well organized and ongoing effort to manipulate global temperature data in order to produce a global warming outcome;

Of course, this was a resolution, not a lawsuit. I don’t know if that claim is true or not, although the CRU emails show that there certainly was a “well organized and ongoing effort” to conceal the data regarding global temperature, and to affect the IPCC reports in an unethical and possibly illegal fashion.

South Dakota even resolved that there are other “astrological” forcings on climate.

Here’s the actual text of the South Dakota Bill:

That there are a variety of climatological, meteorological, astrological, thermological, cosmological, and ecological dynamics that can effect world weather phenomena and that the significance and interrelativity of these factors is largely speculative.

I suspect that this was a simple error, and that what was meant was “astronomical” rather than “astrological”. This is supported by their use of “thermological” for “thermal”, as “thermology” is the science of using detailed thermal images of the human body to diagnose disease … I doubt they meant that. It is also supported by their use of “effect” rather than “affect”. I’d say very poor English skills, yes … astrology, no.

Scientists have been barraged by hateful e-mails.

Barraged by mails? Hey, it’s worse than emails, it’s public calls for action:

James Hansen of NASA wanted trials for climate skeptics, accusing them of high crimes against humanity.

Robert Kennedy Jr. called climate skeptics traitors .

Yvo de Boer of the UN called climate skepticism criminally irresponsible .

David Suzuki called for politicians who ignore climate science to be jailed.

DeSmogBlog’s James Hoggan wants skeptics treated as war criminals (video).

Grist called for Nuremberg trials for skeptics.

Joe Romm said that skeptics would be strangled in their beds.

A blogger at TPM pondered when it would be acceptable to execute climate deniers .

Heidi Cullen of The Weather Channel called for skeptical forecasters to be decertified.

Bernie Sanders compared climate skeptics to Nazi appeasers..

And Greenpeace threatened unspecified reprisals against unbelievers, saying:

If you’re one of those who have spent their lives undermining progressive climate legislation, bankrolling junk science, fueling spurious debates around false solutions, and cattle-prodding democratically-elected governments into submission, then hear this:

We know who you are. We know where you live. We know where you work.

And we be many, but you be few.

And Brooks Hanson is worried about emails, and falsely accuses Senator Inhofe of calling climate scientists criminals? What’s wrong with this picture?

The IPCC reports have underestimated the pace of climate change …

Say what? I’d have to ask for citations on this one. There has been no statistically significant warming in the last 15 years, Arctic sea ice is recovering, climate changes are within natural variation … and he claims the pace has been “underestimated” by the IPCC? Sorry, I don’t buy that one in the slightest.

As a start, research grants should specify a data curation plan …

Lack of plans is not the problem. The main grantor of climate science funds in the US, the National Science Foundation, has very clear regulations about the archiving of climate data … but they simply ignore them. And to make it worse, they continue funding scofflaw scientists who ignore them. Science Magazine and Nature Magazine have very clear policies about data archiving … but they don’t ask authors to follow them whenever they feel like it. The problem is not a lack of “data curation plans” as Hanson claims. It is that the people in charge of those plans have been looking the other way, even when people like myself and many others have asked them to enforce their policies and plans and rules. Those kinds of actions simply reinforce the public idea that all of climate science is a scam and a conspiracy. I don’t think it is either one … but man, some of the AGW supporters in positions of scientific power are sure doing their best to make it look that way …

Now, given all of that, what in the editorial did I like? There were several statements that I felt were very important:

We thus must move beyond polarizing arguments in ways that strengthen this joint commitment. The scientific community must recognize that the recent attacks stem in part from its culture and scientists’ behavior.

I could not agree more. The problems are not the result of some mythical Big-Oil funded climate skeptics public relations machine. They are the result of scientific malfeasance on a large scale by far too many of the top climate scientists. People are enraged by this, as there are few things that raise peoples’ ire more than knowing that they have been duped and misled. And the climate science community is the only one that can fix that.

If the scientific community does not aggressively address these issues, including communicating its process of discovery and recognizing its modern data responsibilities, and if society does not constructively engage science, then the scientific enterprise and the whole of society are in danger of losing their crucial rational relationship.

Well put. The problem is not that Inhofe has said some actions by top climate scientists are unethical and possibly illegal. The problem is that some top scientists acted in unethical and possibly illegal ways. The problem is not that people are sending hateful emails to scientists. It is that climate scientists have poisoned the well by publicly calling for the trial of people with whom they disagree, and then want to complain that people are being mean to them. The problem is not that states are taking to the law to fight bad science, it is that the bad science is so entrenched, and the peer review system has become so much of an old-boys club, that the only way to fight it is in the courts.

This is the crux of the matter for climate scientists who wish to restore the lost trust: do honest, transparent, ethical science, and let the results fall where they may. Stop larding “scientific” papers with pounds of  “might” and “could” and “may” and “possibly” and “conceivably”, we don’t care about your speculations, we want your science. Stop underestimating the errors and overestimating the certainty. Stop making up the “scary scenarios” advocated by Stephen Schneider. Stop calling for trials for people who don’t follow the party line.

And most of all, climate scientists need to learn to say those “three little words”.

You know how women are always hoping that guys will say those three little words, “I love you”? It’s like the old joke, “You know how to get rid of cockroaches? … Ask them for a commitment.” Those are the three little words that men find hard to say.

In climate science, the three little words that climate scientists find hard to say, the three little words they need to practice over and over are “We don’t know”.

We don’t know what the climate will be like in a hundred years. We don’t know what the climate sensitivity is, or even if the concept of a linear climate sensitivity relating temperature and forcing is a valid concept. We don’t know if the earth will start to warm or start to cool after the end of this current 15-year period of neither warming nor cooling. We don’t know if a rise in temperature will be a net gain or a net loss for the planet. There are heaps of things we don’t know about the climate, and the general public knows that we don’t know them.

Climate science is a new science, one of the newest. We have only been studying climate extensively for a quarter century or so, and it is an incredibly difficult field of study. The climate is a hugely complex, driven, chaotic, resonant, constructal, terawatt-scale planetary heat engine. It contains five major subsystems (atmosphere, hydrosphere, biosphere, lithosphere, and cryosphere), none of which are well understood. Each of these subsystems has a host of forcings, resonances, inter-reservoir transfers, cycles, and feedbacks which operate both internally and between the subsystems. The climate has important processes which operate on spatial scales from atomic to planet-wide, and on temporal scales from nanoseconds to millions of years. Our present state of knowledge of that system contains more unknowns than knowns. Here is my own estimation of the current state of our climate knowledge, which some of you may have seen:

In this situation, the only honest thing a climate scientist can do is to do the best, clearest, and cleanest science possible; to be totally transparent and reveal all data and codes and methods; to insist that other climate scientists practice those same simple scientific principles; and to say “we don’t know” rather than “might possibly have a probabilistic chance of maybe happening” for all the rest. That is the only path to repairing the lost trust between the public and climate science.

Oh, yeah, and one more thing … apply those principles to scientific editorials as well. Don’t exaggerate, and provide some citations for scientific editorials, trying to trace these vague claims is both boring and frustrating …

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David Ball
May 23, 2010 12:25 pm

Phil Clarke says:
May 23, 2010 at 11:14 am
You are playing the “in the pay of Big Oil” card? You must be kidding, right? Even you must be smart enough to see that, if there were big oil money, the lawsuit would have gone ahead. You must also know that the lawyer for the defendant was paid for by “Big Green”. The very same lawyer that is being used by Andrew Weaver. See if you can put it all together. You are being led down the garden path , I’m afraid. It is obvious to me who is doing the “fabricating”.

Willis Eschenbach
May 23, 2010 1:02 pm

Phil Clarke says:
May 23, 2010 at 12:43 am

Finally, it was a Greenpeace communication, done by one of their employees on their web site.

Past tense. Willis, it’s a shame that you seem to continue to miss my point in all your responses. Attributing a phrase to an organisation, lifted from a blog post, after that post has been removed, seems to be not exactly in the finest tradition of ethical journalism.

Yeah, right. They set off a firestorm, and when it got too hot, they ran for the exits.
You seem to think that because they ran for the exits, they should be forgiven for the firestorm. Me, not so much.
Similarly, you find excuses for James Hansen calling for trials based on thought crimes (he claims, without a shred of evidence, that they knew that they were doing wrong). You say that “true skeptics would be at no risk” from Hansen’s proposal. Gosh, I feel so much better now. And how will you tell a “true skeptic” from a “mostly true but occasionally false” skeptic, or a “thinks he is true but really is false” skeptic? Call in the though police, folks, Phil needs them stat to determine if Willis is a “true skeptic” …
Phil, my point was simple. Some scientists are now getting nasty emails in private. On the other side, skeptics are very publicly getting fired, losing their jobs, being threatened with trials and being called traitors and worse.
So I find the complaints of those scientists, who appear to be too stupid to simply delete junk emails of any type, to be singularly unconvincing. I’ve gotten nasty emails, and I’ve been abused in public. I can tell you which one is trivial. If you can’t tell the difference between private emails and public calls for “Nuremberg style trials” … well, then being an AGW supporter is probably the ideal job for you.

Phil Clarke
May 23, 2010 1:29 pm

David BallYou are playing the “in the pay of Big Oil” card?
Of course I am not; nor do I wish to get involved in a protracted to-and-fro about the largely negligible Tim Ball. I was just quoting the Statement of Defence which was about his reputation and perceptions thereof [that’s why it says ‘is viewed as’]. I have no strong views either way on Tim Ball’s activities. It is a matter of record that he claimed credentials he didn’t have, it is a matter of record that he sued Calgary Herald after that organ published a letter to the editor in April 2006 by Dan Johnson, it is a matter of record that the paper’s statement of Defence alleged:
50. The Defendants (the Calgary Herald) state that the Plaintiff (Ball) never held a reputation in the scientific community as a noted climatologist and authority on global warming. The particulars of the Plaintiff’s reputation are as follows:
(a) The Plaintiff has never published any research in any peer-reviewed scientific journal which addressed the topic of human contributions to greenhouse gas emissions and global warming;
(b) The Plaintiff has published no papers on climatology in academically recognized peer-reviewed scientific journals since his retirement as a Professor in 1996;
(c) The Plaintiff’s credentials and credibility as an expert on the issue of global warming have been repeatedly disparaged in the media; and
(d) The Plaintiff is viewed as a paid promoter of the agenda of the oil and gas industry rather than as a practicing scientist.

It is a metter of record that Dr Ball declined to defend hiself against these charges. I have no idea why he made that choice, nor any great curiousity, some have speculated that it was because of this clause:
The Defendants deny that the Plaintiff suffered any loss to his reputation or income earning capacity, and put the Plaintiff to strict proof thereof.
which would have led to Dr Ball opening up his accounts, and possibly those of the NRSP and Friends of Science.
You never answered my question. You did however, make an implication of fabrication. If you are accusing me of fabrication I would be grateful if you would be specific.

Dave McK
May 23, 2010 1:42 pm

Don’t try to spank the tar baby.

Phil Clarke
May 23, 2010 1:56 pm

If you can’t tell the difference between private emails and public calls for “Nuremberg style trials” … well, then being an AGW supporter is probably the ideal job for you.
Shall we examine that in more detail? Here’s the reference: http://www.grist.org/article/the-denial-industry/
As I already pointed out, the piece is itself a reference to a section in George Monbiot’s indispensible book Heat entitled ‘The Denial Industry’, which you can read here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2006/sep/19/ethicalliving.g2
If you did so, you would discover it is not about honest scepticism, it is about organisations that knowingly spread disinformation on behalf of industrial interests, mainly Exxon, but several others. If you doubt that this happened I refer you to Bob Ward’s open leter to Exxon detailing multi million dollar payments to organisations spreading such misinformation.
http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Guardian/documents/2006/09/19/LettertoNick.pdf
Calls for Nuremberg trials I do not condone, but unless you have been spreading misinformation for money, which of course you have not, then the call for such trials was not aimed at climate sceptics, contrary to your claim. A near perfect example of the Straw Man fallacy. Nearly all your other examples suffer from similar infelicities, others, such as the attribution of words to Joe Room that he never wrote, are just bogus.
As to scientists ‘complaining’ about the hate mail and death threats, I think the response is actually by and large sensible, Here is Gavin Schmidt:
For the most part, the rants have remained just that – rants. Threats of physical harm remain rare and are usually discounted, scientists say. “These people don’t really know you,” Schmidt added. “They’re not really talking about you. You’re just a symbol that has an e-mail address.
But I think playing down this cyber-bullying is unwise: the police take the hate mails seriously and have issued advice to scientists to retain them.
http://climateprogress.org/2010/03/02/the-rise-of-anti-science-cyber-bullying/

rogerkni
May 23, 2010 2:04 pm

Phil Clarke says:
May 22, 2010 at 7:27 am
Monckton called for Mann to be prosecuted for fraud, not for voicing is opinions.
He stated Mann et al are guilty of genocide. If you have hard evidence of fraud you should present it to Penn State U. [or just post it here]. His scientific conduct during his employment at Penn State has, of course, been investigated and no evidence of any wrongdoing whatsoever has been found.

There, fixed it for you.

May 23, 2010 2:12 pm

Phil Clarke, May 23, 2010 at 1:29 pm, preposterously states that he does not want to get into “a protracted to and fro” — then he cherry-picks and posts only the defense’s talking points, while admitting he doesn’t really know what happened.
If Mr Clarke is unaware of Dr Ball’s response, maybe he can be forgiven for his attempted character assassination. Maybe.

Phil Clarke
May 23, 2010 2:26 pm

Smokey – I know this: Tim Ball abandoned his case in the face of a determined defence.
I see the ‘response’ repeats the claim that Ball was Canada’s ‘first PhD in Climatology.’ This was one of the points at issue and is demonstrably wrong:.
Kenneth Hare, a well-respected Professor at McGill, who received his PhD in 1950, also in the UK. Climatologist Andre Robert (PhD from McGill, 1965) conducted research that laid the groundwork in atmospheric models and climate. Timothy Oke, a leader in the study of urban climate, received his PhD from McMaster in 1967.’
So I find this article factually inaccurate and so unreliable, I am afraid.

May 23, 2010 2:52 pm

I think we should all remember why this conflict has arisen – it is over the dispute as to whether human beings have caused catastrophic global warming to the planet. The name calling on the fringes of this debate is unpleasant but not surprising when the vast financial stakes in the argument are taken into account.
I am pleased to describe myself as a left of centre person with a keen interest in looking after our only planet but, in spite of a very careful search I am unable to find evidence of catastrophic anthropogenic global warming sufficient to justify even the billions of dollars spent on looking for it – let alone the amount proposed to be spent on ameliorating it.
I think that the population at large is entitled to think in terms of fraud when it sees such enormous sums being spent on something which seems to them to be a chimera, at best.

Rich Matarese
May 23, 2010 3:03 pm


899 reminds us of a relatively forgotten – or suppressed? – event in American history:
Do you remember the so-called ‘oil embargo’ of 1973? I do. I was stationed at the Naval Air Facility at Andrew’s AFB. The MAC [the U.S. Air Force’s Military Airlift Command] flights coming in from Europe would comment on the ‘invasion fleet’ of full tankers parked off the 15 mile limit of the U.S. adjacent to the refinery points. They were waiting for Nixon’s signature to rescind his wage-price controls.
The growing number of Americans who consider themselves part of (or in sympathy with) the “Tea Party” movement must keep in mind that the Republican faction of our great Permanent Institutional Incumbent Party is not to be trusted as a force for the constraint of civil government under the rule of law.
The rein of Richard Milhous Nixon proved this for once and all, and it is no coincidence that today’s conscientiously libertarian political movement divorced itself forcefully from America’s “court party” during the reign of the president who inflicted OSHA, the EPA, and the first peacetime wage and price controls upon this nation.
Oh, and let’s not forget “the Nixon shock” that completely divorced the U.S. dollar from even the semblance of specie valuation, thus setting the stage for the Gadarene currency inflation we’ve seen under Dubbya and his brother-in-felony, Barry Soetoro.
Those of us committed to the kind of scientific integrity advocated by Richard Feynman in his “Cargo Cult Science” commencement address at CalTech in 1974 tend robustly to what we might as well call a nonpartisan opposition to government thuggery imposed upon the voluntary exchanges by which the marketplace facilitates function in a division-of-labor economy.
It doesn’t matter whether the “right” or the “left” undertakes such dirigisme as they are endlessly prone to doing. Both are destructive, both are damnable, and both are to be opposed for the sake not only of “the greater good” but also for that integrity of intellectual function which every scientist must maintain for the sake of his effectiveness as an investigator into and expatiator upon the phenomenal universe.

May 23, 2010 3:06 pm

Phil Clarke clearly believes we’re stupid here. In his previous post he said, “I have no strong views either way on Tim Ball’s activities. It is a matter of record that he claimed credentials he didn’t have…”
But it is obvious that Mr Clarke does, in fact, have very strong views regarding Dr Ball, since he advocates the defense lawyers case by repeating their accusations.
Dr Tim Ball provided his credentials in 2007 to the newspapers linked above, yet Clarke continues to repeat the mendacious fabrication that Dr Ball “never held a reputation in the scientific community as a noted climatologist,” despite the fact that Ball wrote his PhD thesis on climatology, taught climatology, and wrote numerous newspaper articles on climatology and related issues.
There are not many people in the climatology field, and it would be hard to find many who have not heard of Dr Timothy Ball.
If I were Phil Clarke, residing in the UK with it’s draconian libel laws, I would be hesitant to repeat statements damaging to Dr Ball’s reputation. But maybe that’s just me.

David Ball
May 23, 2010 3:49 pm

Now Phil will probably try to tell us that the Hudson’s Bay records are of no importance to the debate. Meanwhile, one of the loudest screams from CAGW proponents is that the artic melting (what I would call a valley in the up and down cycles of the pole), is unprecedented. Again, it is why these people have gone to such lengths to attack the man (Dr. Ball) and not the issue. Phil, the “question” you wanted me to answer is a distraction from the issue. I will not be baited or sidestepped. Realize that what was said in the DeSmog article is far worse than anything said about Weaver, Mann, et al. THIS IS THE ISSUE. Also understand that my father is one of those scientist (He has a Doctor of Science degree in climatology, just so you are aware) that was a victim of the CRU attempt to control the peer-review process. Again, why would those people feel it necessary to control that process if their conclusions were so strong? It is impossible to publish in the scientific forums when you are shut out. Your whole argument is built on a crumbling foundation. Or do you deny that Climategate and the Wegman report happened?

David Ball
May 23, 2010 3:53 pm

I apparently overestimated Phil Clarke’s ability to “put it together”. Notice his lack of response to the funding of said legal teams. Just so everyone knows, Dan Johnston said my father taught at a “mickey mouse University”. See if you can find out where Mr. Johnson teaches and what Mr. Johnson teaches. Also find out where Mr. Johnson was educated and under whom he was educated. It all stinks to high heaven !!!

David Ball
May 23, 2010 4:02 pm

Phil Clarke says:
May 23, 2010 at 2:26 pm
Smokey – I know this: Tim Ball abandoned his case in the face of a determined defence.
I will say it again, Phil. Please pay attention this time. The case was dropped due to lack of funds. For no other reason. Stop believing everything you read, especially from an agenda driven political site that is in its death throes.

Phil Clarke
May 23, 2010 4:05 pm

Smokey – Phil Clarke clearly believes we’re stupid here
Au contraire. But consider this – one instigates an action for defamation to preserve one’s reputation and earnings as a subject expert – after that expertise is questioned in print. It becomes clear that the publication is going to defend the case, and effectively claims that you are no authority in the field, having retired a decade earlier with no publications to your name.
You fold.
That seems an accurate precis. I am not going to speculate why Dr Ball declined to pursue his defamation action, but the decision appears odd, especially if his actual expert status is as rock solid as you cliam, and there is a 6-figure sum at stake. So it goes.
But then to go to the press and for that publication to repeat a false claim that was part of the action, and that can be easily and unequivocally shown to be false, blowing their credibility in one sentence. In my opinion that does take a special kind of stupid.

David Ball
May 23, 2010 4:06 pm

Stuart Huggett says:
May 23, 2010 at 2:52 pm
Yours is the voice of reason. I’m just standing up for my father after seeing him being smeared like this for 30 years (when is that CAGW going to start anyway?). It is gratifying that the truth is finally coming out. Thank you for your post.

Dave McK
May 23, 2010 4:41 pm

David- Dr. Tim never broke. That’s a diamond.
He’s Mohs 10.

David Ball
May 23, 2010 4:43 pm

My apologies to Willis Eschenbach and Anthony (mods included). My intention is never to highjack a thread. Willis’ post are vital.

Phil Clarke
May 23, 2010 4:46 pm

David Ball,
I had no idea that you are Tim Ball’s son. So thanks for clearing up the reason why he chose not to pursue the action – you will notice I did not speculate about this. If I have made any errors of fact, as you insinuated above, then please feel free to correct me.
You say He has a Doctor of Science degree in climatology, just so you are aware
I was NOT aware of that, I was aware that he was awarded a Geography Doctor of Philosophy in 1983
http://catalogue.ulrls.lon.ac.uk/search/?searchtype=a&searcharg=Ball%2C+Timothy&searchscope=16&SORT=A&Submit.x=48&Submit.y=27
but I did not know he also holds the more prestigious Doctor of Science, – according to wikipedia: the Sc.D. is a ‘higher doctorate’ awarded in recognition of a substantial and sustained contribution to scientific knowledge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_science
Impressive. Could you share with us when was he awarded this honour and by which institution?

David Ball
May 23, 2010 6:04 pm

I was incorrect. It is a Doctor of Philosphy as you stated, but it is in the faculty of science (Queen Mary colledge of London) , not geography as DeSmog has claimed. I think you will find that DeSmog has misled you about a great many things regarding this subject. I have sent it to Anthony as I do not know how to post a pdf. file.

May 23, 2010 6:06 pm

Phil Clarke,
I have no idea why Dr. Ball dropped the defamation action, but I can guess. This is Canadian law we are talking about. I had a public accusation and fines levied against me by a quasi-judicial government body 20+ years ago. I appealed to the provincial court (where I won) which they appealed to the provincial court of appeal (where I won) which they appealed to the Supreme Court of Canada (who refused to hear the case)(meaning I won). I consulted with half a dozen lawyers who all advised me in regard to a defamation suit that:
1. My case was pretty much air tight.
2. Legal fees would be $200K to $400K
3. It would take 5 years or more
4. I would likely be awarded $100K in damages plus legal fees which Canadian courts would estimate in the range of $50K.
These types of cases rarely go forward in Canada and now you know why.

David Ball
May 23, 2010 6:08 pm

You have yet to answer my question regarding the importance of the Hudson’s Bay records and whether DeSmog has stepped over ethical boundaries regarding the attacks on my father. You do not get off that easy.

David Ball
May 23, 2010 8:15 pm
Phil Clarke
May 23, 2010 11:41 pm

David Ball,
Thanks for clearing that up! I think it is admirable that you stand up for your father, however I suggest that getting such details as the degree he holds correct is important – especially when of the points at issue is that Dr Ball inflated his credentials! Doubtless it was a simple mistake, however in the UK the distinction between D.Sc and PhD. is a large one and some might not be so charitable.
I see that in the first CFP article Smokey provided, Dr Ball states: “That’s absolute rubbish. I have a PhD in Geography with a specific focus on historical climatology from the University of London (England), Queen Mary College,” Dr. Ball told Canada Free Press (CFP) yesterday in a telephone interview. and in the second he awards himself this apparently nonexistant D.Sc.
…. whether DeSmog has stepped over ethical boundaries regarding the attacks on my father. You do not get off that easy.
And I have asked you be specific about what boundaries have been transgressed – apparently that is ‘sidestepping’. Make a specific allegation and I wlll consider discussing it. Excuse me – but I am not going to try and second-guess what you think the problem is.

pandutzu
May 24, 2010 6:33 am

Dude Willis,
That picture is SO wrong… I assume that the polar bears floated on ice all the way to S Pole for a picnic grill. That will imply 2 things: 1. the water temps of the ocean cooled so dramatically in the last year (though it was not reported by BBC, and of course is due to AGW) that the ice did not melt during the journey, and 2. the “conveyor belt” is not slowing down as was falsely reported by biased media, but is accelerated now, to new record speeds so the journey of the polar bears was quick and without incidents.
Before you get grilled by the “hot mouths” at realclimate, I would change that penguin with a seal.