Steve Milloy’s Green Hell blog has the scoop. A poll follows.
Leak of the day! Kerry-Lieberman cap-and-trade bill
Most of the world will learn tomorrow about the Kerry-Lieberman cap-and-trade bill.
But you can check out the bill summary and section-by-section analysis today!
I don’t like this — too many crisis’ with this administration — payoffs to everybody but the taxpayer — i hope it gets killed quick —
I don’t suppose this will make me very popular with many of the regulars around here, but I find this bill to be a reasonable compromise at this point in history. Much of what it does works just as well as an energy independence plan, nuclear wakes up from its long slumber, nat gas gets some loving, etc.
And it doesn’t try to craft a 20, 40, 50, or 100 year solution, which is just insanity. Limited goals in limited timeframes and at a reasonable cost in the grand scheme of things.
Maybe I’m coming from a “it could be a lot worse” place in my thinking, but then I’ve always considered myself a “lukewarmist” anyway.
These programs are designed to suck money out of the private sector and into government. Following popular neo-Marxist theory, the money is redistributed to the needy through other government programs.
But please don’t call it socialism!
As was pointed out in a previous post, the recent volcano put out more carbon than we can ever reduce with a bunch of stupid bills designed by liberals to get more of our money. Rebates they say. Phooey! They will never give back more than they take in. Your power bill will robustly increase in amount and a lot of other things will too. Another assault on the American citizen.
“and improve the quality of the air we breathe”……..
…….”while reducing carbon pollution by 17 percent in 2020, and by over 80 percent in 2050”
carbon pollution, CO2 is pollution……..
Well at least thank God they didn’t blame oxygen or water vapor or little green men…..
“Maybe I’m coming from a “it could be a lot worse” place in my thinking”
that’s the way it works George, they take a little, and a little more, and a little more…
..until it’s all gone
Rebates for all. The rebate is the way they want to decieve people. The fine print says the taxes go to reducing the deficit before the rebates. I suspect it will be nearly impossible to get a rebate. Kerry knows good and well farmers will not see any money. This bill will cost over a million American jobs. Paying energy bill for the poor incentivises waste.
GE will get billions.
2/3 of revenue not dedicated to deficit reduction goes to consumers, where does the rest go, to the Kerry, Lieberman reelection committees? how much is dedicated to deficit reduction, 100%? I don’t believe any of these wonderful things that this bill claims to do will actually happen.
My vote in the poll depends on whether or not the bill comes up before the November election. If it does it might pass the same way health care did, but there might be enough Dems from coal states that it won’t. If it come up after November then there is no chance.
Reading through the summaries and analysis – wow, this thing is a pig. They’re betting the bank on strangling the Carbon Cycle, establishing a credits trade scheme, inflicting import tariffs on goods from countries ‘not in compliance’, ‘violator’ enforcement, empowerment of the EPA Secretariat to blow gobs of money on ‘sequestration’ schemes. . .
This is absolutely and totally heinous.
Under the guise of averting disaster, they are gleefully charting a course to calamity.
They have lost what little sense we thought they had left : (
From the Summary:
“allowances to offset both direct and indirect compliance costs” is mentioned several times, expanding the clean energy tax credit, and multi-billion dollar annual incentives (just guess who is going to pay for all of this).
This one is just CRAZY. They also want to assess an import duty on all products from countries that “have not taken action to limit emissions”. Are we going to pay to police world emissions and how in the world to they propose to figure out where the pieces and parts of the import were manufactured?
It appears that the purpose of this duty is to black mail countries into signing a Global Climate Treaty into law.
A gloss over the summary tells me that this bill is complete rubbish . Any legislation that anticipates having to provide tax cuts and rebates represents a kick in the gut for consumers . Worse , it places a price on carbon which opens the door for corruption regardless of the best intentions . And I doubt those intentions .
Just from reading the summary alone, this looks like the Full Employment Act of 2010 for the Chicago Climate Exchange, Generation Investment Management LLP, Goldman Sachs, and the others in the “monetizing the air” aka “cap and trade” cabal.
Ok, I read the summary. Didn’t know my computer had the ability to download smells. This smelled. A lot. Like BS. And I know what BS smells like. I live on a farm. I’m surrounded by cows. I spread it on my crops. I give it away. Still smells like BS around here. But this bill absolutely overpowered the regular BS smell. This was SuperBS.
Please Note: my comments above are based on the assumption that the summary document is valid. Its also worth pointing out that it is a draft document for internal comment that someone leaked.
geo says:
May 11, 2010 at 2:27 pm
I don’t suppose this will make me very popular with many of the regulars around here, but I find this bill to be a reasonable compromise at this point in history.
Why would anyone accept a “compromise” on something that is so obviously based on a lie? That’s saying that we will allow you to lie and screw us only half the time. Sorry. When something stinks as bad as this the only solution is to flush it.
I am already done with my lifelong relationship with Democrats. If Republicans and their constituents don’t step up to the plate and fight this tooth and toenail, my vote will flee from them as well. I ended my lifelong registration as a Democrat. I did something. Let’s hope more people will take action.
Though I did do something, even that was not enough. Is it not ironic that I registered as an Independent after quitting the Dems? Gawd I am disgusted with all of them. If it isn’t the Repubs telling me what to do, its the Dems. And now, it seems apparent, that independents are riding the same nanny government train.
“Those states that have already taken a leadership role in implementing emission reduction policies will receive compensation for the revenues lost as a result of the termination of their cap-and-trade programs.”
Well that seems fair. Tax power producers and heavy industry in Texas and give the money to Calif. for their lost revenues.
‘Inflicting import tariffs on goods from countries ‘not in compliance’, like China and India.
That will go down like a lead balloon. I’m sure we have been here before, after the trade war comes WW3.
Who actually wrote this wonderful item, and how many months (or years) was it cooked up? Sound to me like Al and friends have been hard at work designing their get rich scheme. How did Lieberman get suckered into putting his name on this?
The only way they can pass it will be to use Nancy bit of “we must pass it so we can find out what’s in it” and ram it down the throat fast that they used before.
Thanks, Anthony, this was a valuable preview!
As usual, they give lip service to the nuclear industry, with talk of making a national lab a “center of excellence” for waste reprocessing/disposal technology. This after they killed off Yucca Mountain. I don’t trust them one bit.
Wind Rider – Your final sentence is great .
Still too much “Global Warming” and “Green House Gases” in the details. It needs to just be an energy bill, and FOCUS on ENERGY, not the ridiculous sequestration of CO2 maintained by the EPA.
Try again.
“rebate 2/3 back to citizens AFTER deficit, reduction” YEAH RIGHT and I have a slightly used bridge for sale…
This is straight from Obama
“”I walked into office facing a massive deficit, most of which was the result of not paying for two wars, two tax cuts, and an expensive prescription drug program,” Mr. Obama said last month in a speech to corporate executives at a Business Roundtable conference.
“When we walked in, we had a deficit of $1.3 trillion and projected debt over the course of a decade of $8 trillion,” he told the CEOs on February 24th. “The lost revenue from this recession put us in an even deeper hole. And the steps we took to save the economy from depression last year have necessarily added to the deficit — about $1 trillion, compared to the $8 trillion that we inherited.”
The most the administration says it can do is try to slow the growth of the National Debt – but its own forecasts show it doesn’t look promising.
In the 2011 federal budget released last month, the administration projects the National Debt will soar ever upward to over $25 trillion in the year 2020. The total debt will amount to more than 100 percent of the national economy as early as 2012.” http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20000576-503544.html
So that supposed promise of returning ANYTHING to the citizens has about as much chance of happening as me becoming president of the USA.
Given that is an out right lie, I imagine that the building of the nuclear power plants will follow in the footsteps of the building of the fence at the US-Mexican Border.
On Oct 27, 2006 Bush Signed the Bill Authorizing the construction of a fence along 700 miles of the U.S.-Mexico border. The border states are still screaming for it to be built. So far less than 25 miles (more like 5) has been built. And the Federal project has been pretty much gutted. American citizens in the border states are therefore building the fence themselves! http://www.borderfenceproject.com/
Remember the hard learned lessons from the Federal Reserve Act
“….Warburg’s associates said, “Paul, what are you doing? We don’t want those in there this is our bill.” And his response was this, he said, “Relax fellas, don’t you get it? Our object is to get the bill passed. We can fix it up later.” Those were his exact words. “We can fix it up later.” He was so right. It was because of those provisions that they won over the support of William Jennings Bryan the head of the Populist Movement, the last hold-out against the bill. Bryan was concerned that this would be an instrument for ruining the nation’s money supply but when he saw those provisions he said, “Oh well, those are good provisions, I guess I can support the bill now” never dreaming that this was temporary….
The Federal Reserve Act since it was passed has been amended over 100 times. Every one of those provisions were long ago removed and many more have been added which greatly expand the power and reach of the Federal Reserve System to create money out of nothing. With this kind of professional strategy and deception these people were real professionals and the public didn’t stand a chance. It is no surprise that popular support was finally gained for the bill…” http://www.bigeye.com/griffin.htm
“Why would anyone accept a “compromise” on something that is so obviously based on a lie?”
It’s a lie that a majority of the oil in the world comes from neo-fascist countries with either leaders, populations, or both that hate our guts?
As to the climate change aspect, if you are just as sure as Phil Jones, only in the other direction, where “truth” is on this issue, then you and Phil have more in common with each other than either of you do with me.
First rule of keeping your job as an elected politician… If you don’t have a crisis to solve, invent one.
Take away the CO2 crap, and its not too bad.
The ‘rebates” will be “means tested” this means that people that the people who pay taxes will get small rebates and the people who don’t pay taxes will get large rebates. Its just a mechanism for one party to buy votes.
Take away the CO2 crap, and is there anything left?
If they REALLY wanted to do something positive about energy they would
#1 Build as many hydro electric dams as they possibly can in each and every state.
#2 Build as many nuclear plants in as many states as they can. Fast track them with the proven french design
#3 Remove ALL taxes from generated electric power, electric power plants and electric power plant personal while requiring the power companies to retain the same level of profitability (no windfalls allowed)
#4 Produce decent hybrid cars in the government run plant by kicking out Obama’s cronies and replacing them with decent engineering and business types.
If you want to get a little crazy:
#5 Put in or increase the number of commuter rail cars that allow bikes and golf carts to be carried as they do in Europe. [I commuted by train & bike in Boston but I had to walk part way because I could not take my bike on the train. The bike got stolen.]
#6 Ban the use of cars during working hours in congested cities except for handicapped and the elderly. Or at least provide decent security at commuter rail parking lots with a bike lock-up check room at every rail stop.
With cheap electric power available, the use of home heating oil/propane/wood will drop and the use of hybrid commuting cars will increase. Making it easy to use commuter rail/bike/golf carts instead of cars would really help too.
How about the rest of you refining, criticizing and adding to this and we submit it as a rival bill????
All the got left is lies, and that’s a really hard sell.
It’s reparations in a pretty green wrapper.
“We include a hard price collar which binds carbon prices and creates a predictable system for carbon prices to rise at a fixed rate over inflation.”…
Price fixing thrown in for good measure! That always works.
Here’s a preview for whatever happens with Cap N Trade:
America rises and overturns all these high tax bills that have, or will, become law—including President Obama’s “necessarily skyrocket”ing energy bills.
The sooner everyone capitulates, acquiesces and accepts the enlightened leadership of the elected including ‘the one’ and his numerous appointed, the easier it will be from a mental-anguish aspect. Certainly they are guided by the highest of principles, the greatest of ideals, the most and best-informed laboring in the sciences?
… as if I believe those words …
.
.
Would you buy a car from either of those two?
It takes real con artists to sell a line of bull that bad, and keep a straight face while doing it.
And Pam, the Democrats were not like this in my parents day. At least it wasn’t so painfully obvious.
Outside of Washington, in the real world, it is also bizarre. While the NYT announces China has increased coal generated electricity by 24% in the first quarter compared to a year ago, Toronto initiates a $125 fine for idling a car more than one minute.
Whatever will be done in Washington, or Toronto, will be overwhelmed by increased emissions in the developing countries. The Western politicians are oblivious to the pointlessness of what they are doing. And oblivious to the probability AGW is no problem.
It’s the economy stupid.
Trouble is, stupid keeps doing everything they can to slay the economy.
Take away the treasonous, slime-covered, Socialist crap, and it’s not too bad.
The first sentence of the draft summary was interesting. “the air we breathe”. I wonder if other readers remember the report by EcoAmerica on re-branding climate propaganda –
http://ecoamerica.org/sites/default/files/press/ecoAm_Climate_Energy_Truths.pdf
From page 5 –
“Protecting our health and our legacy to our children: When placed in a
broader context of energy independence, national security, and economic
concerns, concerns about polluting and protecting “our land” and “the air we
breathe” are persuasive. This should not be used at the beginning of the message, but they add synergistically to the power of messages that include other values (e.g. prosperity, self-sufficiency, and independence) that are persuasive from the start. Health is even stronger in the climate debate and is one of our strongest messages to women.”
Although very disturbing, it is well worth reading the report. It is fascinating how heavily this work seems to be influencing Obama and other Democrats.
The leaked American Power Act Draft (I’m making the assumption that document is authentic) isn’t quite as looney as the Summary but it introduces some pretty disturbing ideas.
The Bill would essentially restrict Carbon Futures trading to a specific exchange (organization) and mandate the purchase of the contracts. This implies the governments interest in creating a monopoly as it either directly or indirectly imposes the futures contract on everyone.
I have nothing against Futures trading but I’ve never been mandated to buy a futures contract nor am I interested in creating a monopoly with tax dollars. Is this even legal?
Assuming it is legal and given the US taxpayer is picking up the tab, why not make the exchange not for profit and return all profit on an annual basis to taxpayers to receive the hopefully tax free distribution. Note: if we paid for the goofy thing with tax dollars we’ve already been taxed once. This would also eliminate the “means testing” as it would require a taxpayer contribution to qualify for the distribution.
If business is also taxed to maintain this looney tool, business should also receive
a distribution.
I really don’t like the idea of using the profit to pay down National Debt. The loons in Washington will just use it as an excuse for more unfunded mandates and dig us into an even bigger mess.
But, if industry wants to pay my taxes instead of upgrading their systems which they already get to depreciate over 5 years, I don’t think I’d object.
Call to Arms
What freedom are you NOT WILLING TO LOSE before you take a stand?
Tell your Senators to vote no.
geo says:
May 11, 2010 at 3:41 pm
As to the climate change aspect, if you are just as sure as Phil Jones, only in the other direction, where “truth” is on this issue, then you and Phil have more in common with each other than either of you do with me.
Ah, yes, the old precautionary principle. How refreshing! Sorry, bub, the burden of proof is on the Warmists, otherwise the null hypothesis holds. Nice try.
Oh, and your whiny question about where our oil comes from is a straw man. No one is against becoming more energy independent. This horrible bill is not the way to do it, though.
Oh, this is a mine of wisdom 🙂
Two thirds of all revenues “not dedicated to reducing the deficit” will be [returned] back to the consumer
One must ask, then, why take it from the consumer in the first place? But, we see the reason: not dedicated to reducing the deficit. If the senators and congresspeople were sooo concerned about the deficit, then wouldn’t they just stop spending other people’s money? But I digress.
Is the megalomania one politician too far: … we provide predictability… So, is the senate going to regulate the wind?
After an initial transition period… Yes, and income tax was a temporary measure.
I could go on and on and o0n and on. I trust in the American tradition of chasing snake-oil men out of town.
Remove the CO2 garbage, and it sounds alright. It’s time we stop importing crap at artificially low prices from countries that don’t live up to our emissions and pollution standards. I think that’s why industry has moved out of the USA: we try to run a clean ship and corporate greed says, “Hey, I can do this in *insert some other country here* where they don’t have all of these compliance costs or OSHA costs or labor costs, and I’ll make a huge profit!” Then they undercut everyone else until the rest of the industry is forced to leave our shores to be cost-competitive.
I’ve said enough to get everyone here riled up so I’ll shut up. I read this blog daily, and I don’t buy into any of the CO2 crap, but I think something needs to be done to stem our lust for cheap overseas pollution.
I voted “don’t know” as it is soooo stuffed with bribes for businesses that it might pass. The American People are serfs in this bill.
Tom T says:
May 11, 2010 at 2:48 pm
“2/3 of revenue not dedicated to deficit reduction goes to consumers, where does the rest go, to the Kerry, Lieberman reelection committees? how much is dedicated to deficit reduction, 100%? I don’t believe any of these wonderful things that this bill claims to do will actually happen.
My vote in the poll depends on whether or not the bill comes up before the November election. If it does it might pass the same way health care did, but there might be enough Dems from coal states that it won’t. If it come up after November then there is no chance.”
What Tom said… he beat me to it.
John Galt says @ May 11, 2010 at 2:35 pm:
Is it OK if we call it communism instead?
The so-called precautionary principle has some value, but it depends on the price vs the consequences.
Are you saying that a precautionary principle of $1 to hedge trillions is the same as $40 trillion dollars to hedge $1 in losses?
Because if you are, well we part ways, have a nice day.
But if you aren’t, then surely the actual price of the given bill vs other options that have been put on the table has some relevance to the discussion? How does this bill compare to Waxman-Markey, for instance? How does this bill compare to what the AGWers tried to get at Copenhagen?
“This horrible bill is not the way to do it”. Oh, nice try yourself. Apparently you are a champion vote counter in the US congress. Please give us your bill to accomplish that. If you can show the votes for it as well, perhaps I will offer my own support. I want to see this bill that brings back nuclear into the US energy equation that you’ve got the votes for. Show us, please!
Pamela Gray,
your only hope is the US Constitution. Those that wrote that document were very smart and wordly-wise. They were libertarians all; they wanted to restrict the power of ogvernment over “the governed”.
Totally unacceptable.
Kill that Bill!
Like all these recent bills this one will promise everything to everyone and then do the complete opposite while slandering those who point out the hypocrisy.
I’ve got some used crankcase oil stored in coffee cans around here. Tomorrow I’m going to douse some household trash and used tires with the oil and torch it off…in AlGore’s honor.
Carbon is not a greenhouse gas. It’s not even a gas.
I am already done with my lifelong relationship with Democrats. If Republicans and their constituents don’t step up to the plate and fight this tooth and toenail, my vote will flee from them as well. I ended my lifelong registration as a Democrat. I did something. Let’s hope more people will take action.
Hmm. I did think you would probably arrive where you are now. And there are a lot more sitting here than there were three years ago. IMHO the GOP contains the last vestiges of genuine liberalism. And a lot of other things as well. But the Dems have foresworn liberalism and fallen off the left edge off the table entirely. Even the blue dogs have gone yellow (and therefore turned green).
The bill claims one of it’s goals is to decrease our dependence on foreign oil. Really? Let’s see, electricity is generated by coal 1st, then natural gas,….oh wait, way down there at the bottom of the list is a small fraction of electricity generated by diesel. I’m sure if we shrink that further we will really cut back on our oil independence big time!
John from CA says:
May 11, 2010 at 4:50 pm
‘But, if industry wants to pay my taxes instead of upgrading their systems which they already get to depreciate over 5 years, I don’t think I’d object.’
Just where do you think industry get it money to pay taxes? Do you think that they have free money growing on money trees? They get their money from you and I when we put on our consumer hats.
Any tax credit can and has gone by – by in a heart beat at the whim of lawmakers. Don’t give them the power in the first place.
A choice not found in the poll:
“It doesn’t matter what happens with Kerry-Lieberman. Obama is going to accomplish his ‘green/environmental’ goals anyway through the EPA, including having energy bills “necessarily skyrocket”.”
p.s., has anyone ever wondered how many elderly on fixed incomes we are going to find in the winter dead in their houses from hypothermia because they couldn’t afford their “necessarily skyrocket”-ed electric bill?
evanmjones says:
May 11, 2010 at 5:45 pm
I am already done with my lifelong relationship with Democrats. If Republicans and their constituents don’t step up to the plate and fight this tooth and toenail, my vote will flee from them as well….
___________________________________________________________________________
It is a really tough call. If you vote independent you may guarantee a democrat gets into office. Unfortunately the republicans are owned by the power behind the throne too. I normally vote who ever is in office out unless I really like him. This replaces the full grown hog with a little piglet at the public trough in hope he will do less damage.
REPLY – That was Pamela, actually, not me. I was just answering it. I’ve been a liberal republican for quite a number of years. ~ Evan
All it will take is one vote from the R’s to end debate. Once that is done, CapnTrade V2.0 becomes a reality and the crack of new taxes will disappear into behemoth that is gov’t, just making it more insatiable and needing another fix.
With deficits running at $1.4 trillion, all revenue generated will go to deficit reduction and none will be left over for anything else. And they won’t elminate the deficit either.
This makes me happier than sticking my hand in the garbage disposal … with the motor running!
Not sure if anybody likes Glenn Beck but he covers this in a video here..
http://www.examiner.com/x-14143-Orange-County-Conservative-Examiner~y2010m4d27-Scandal-Obama-Gore-Goldman-Joyce-Foundation-CCX-partners-to-fleece-USA
Amazing how many of the same people are at the bases of these bills or orgs that are pushing the progressive eugenics agenda. Look at CFR, Trilateral commission, Bilderberg. How many of the same people are intertwined and add the Federal Reserve bankster crooks…..What we are bearing witness to is the creation of the modern day slave trade.
I am sure some will say “conspiracy” but the info is out there you just have to look and keep an open mind.
As to Ms. Gray leaving the Dems…..I hate to say it but don’t put your heart into the Repubs either. I had to leave them for the same reasons…..This 2 headed snake we call the political parties are really the embodiment of the same thing and don’t in the end benefit the people.
What we need is more public servants and less politicians……
“Amino Acids in Meteorites says:
p.s., has anyone ever wondered how many elderly on fixed incomes we are going to find in the winter dead in their houses from hypothermia because they couldn’t afford their “necessarily skyrocket”-ed electric bill?”
That’s an essential cost cutting measure in Obamacare!
Bulldust says:
May 11, 2010 at 5:22 pm
John Galt says @ May 11, 2010 at 2:35 pm:
Is it OK if we call it communism instead?
Well, yes, if you want to call it that instead of Marxism. I don’t see Dr. Zhivago happening yet though.
“The personal life is dead.”
Oxygen is next on the hit list. If they can control & tax gases needed by green plants it’s only a matter of time before they come up with an excuse to tax the gas neede by animals.
We are all consistently underestimating the ruthlessness, cleverness and determination of this administration to completely transform America. Hope for the best at your own risk.
David Segesta says:
May 11, 2010 at 6:07 pm
With deficits running at $1.4 trillion
You can add $171 billion to that. That is the U.S. portion of the $1 trillion for Greece.
And oh, and BTW, if anyone (though I don’t think there is anyone in that case) was feeling good about the reported economic growth of the last 1/4 please think again. Debt in America grew faster than that growth. Some day the piper is going to come calling.
Peter Schiff gives a few details on that good news:
Robert of Ottawa says:
May 11, 2010 at 5:04 pm
…I could go on and on and o0n and on. I trust in the American tradition of chasing snake-oil men out of town.
I was think of an even better old American tradition – Tar and feathers – it is so much more appropriate.
Let’s all hope and pray that Obama isn’t a natural born citizen. Every bill congress has passed since January 2009 is rendered null and void if it wasn’t signed into law by a legitmate chief executive.
I doubt that this will endear to me anyone here. You can call me a “snip”, a climate “snip”, and an old earth “snip”. Can I possibly get anymore politically incorrect?
[Being politically incorrect is fine. But some topics are against site policy. ~dbs, mod.]
Cap & Trade scam based on scam!
http://factsnotfantasy.blogspot.com/2010/05/cap-and-trade-scam-based-on-scam.html
As Churchill once said, “Embalm, cremate and bury. Take no chances.”
Joe Romm says millions of green jobs. He is a liar. For all the billions of taxes, the layoffs are cost cutting ways to choke jobs. Spain is an example ofclaiming green jobs. For every green job, they lost 4 ordinary jobs. The other part of the lie is making farmers money. Coward democrats in farm states think they can fool farmers. A farmer knows he will get the shaft on fuel and fertilizer price increases. After the handlers get their fingers on the carbon credits, none will go to the farm. Farmers will be ripped off by more expensive trucks and farm vehuicles. Fuel for irrigation pumps sure will excalate. Coal miners will get fired.
As a genuine economist, i guarantee this bill will cost many more jobs than it produces. Notice the caulker boondoggle. It was a farce. 7 billion for rail? That will not result in50 miles of new passenger railroad tracks. Only if states are mandated to add another 50 billion to the ral dollars will we see expanded rail. Honest people know the states do not have 50 billion to spend on rail.
It is time to take Jefferson’s words literally.
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Me, former member of Serria Club, Greenpeace, Union of Concered Scienist, Wilderness Society, up until about 1985 when the Earth First ones came.
They threw me out of a meeting in Washington State when I called them terrorist for what they wanted to do the logger’s, logging truck drivers, and the people who worked in the saw mills. They told me not to ever come back or they would, deal with me.
Did that. They are a clear and present danger to U.S. all.
It seemed like there were 12 “pre-approved” nuclear plants being “insured”. Did I read that right? Wonder who the principles in the pre-approved ones are and how they got picked.
But all you Americans are, I think, over reacting. The bill isn’t so bad looking at it from up here in Canada. We have a very long undefended border, lots of space, lots of oil. I say bring your families, bring your SUV’s, we’ll welcome you with open arms. I did mention that you have to come in large groups and bring your factories with you, didn’t I?
Why can’t the government just print up 50 or so billion dollars and give it to researchers, academics, and businesses for development of new energy sources?
This reminds me of the border issue. The border should have been sealed right after 911, instead, the politicians have tied amnesty to a bill that tightens the border.
I noticed that there’s some mention of international in the bill. I bet it has provisions for international transfers of wealth from us to other countries in order to buy the right to emit plant and tree food.
This has been a goal of leftists for decades, a way to get dedicated transfers of wealth from the ‘North.’
Just trying to subscribe to the blog without endless notifications about new comments on the blog 🙂
Did anybody catch the part where it establishes a new revenue stream for farmers? This I believe means they will pay farmers to plant trees on their farm land and use the trees as plant and tree food sinks.
This will accomplish at least two things desirable to the left: It will ncrease the price of food (we’ll have less money for consumption which is what they want to stop) and it’ll also force us to buy more foreign grown food.
LOL, Evan. “I’ve been a liberal republican for quite a number of years. ~ Evan”
Me too, that’s why I am a conservative Republican. I am a very conservative Republican BECAUSE I support individual rights over government rights. I want to conserve indivual rights and freedoms. This is where the labels of conservative and liberal have been turned on their heads. Conservatives are far more liberal than the illnamed liberals, who regularly use big government to enforce their values and lifestyles on to their fellow citizens.
CO2? Climate? Les’see.
ftp://ftp.cmdl.noaa.gov/ccg/co2/trends/co2_mm_mlo.txt
Back in April 2007 to Apil 2008 when the Global economy was pretty good, and we were just “Spewin” that eevil See Oh Two into the atmosphere CO2 increased by 0.82ppm.
In the recessionary period of April 2009 to April 2010 when the U.S. actually cut emissions quite a bit CO2 increased in the atmosphere by 2.93 ppm.
Hmm, you don’t s’pose temperature might have been leading CO2, do you?
Oh well, I give in – send on the comments but I’d be grateful to activare the subscription 🙂
geo says:
May 11, 2010 at 2:27 pm
I don’t suppose this will make me very popular with many of the regulars around here, but I find this bill to be a reasonable compromise at this point in history. Much of what it does works just as well as an energy independence plan, nuclear wakes up from its long slumber, nat gas gets some loving, etc.
Camel’s nose under the tent….
Still trying to activate a subsciption to the blog
Treasury Dept; M. President, we regret to inform you that the country has gone bankrupt.
President; Dang. Was hoping that wouldn’t happen. Only needed a few more trillion to spend my way out of this recession. OK, so we’re bankrupt. Who owns the paper?
Treasury Dept; Uhm… mostly China.
President; Well what do they want? Can we mortgage something? How about California? They have to take Schwartzenneger with it though.
Treasury Dept; We already mortgaged California. All the other states too. They said they want to take title to a state or two….
President; Fine. They can have California.
Treasury Dept; Uhm… they don’t want California. They asked for Alaska. They said something about Guam, but then they changed their mind, something about it being too tippy.
President; Alaska? ALASKA!? Why would they want Alaska?
Treasury Dept; Oil… all that oil you wouldn’t let us drill for is still there….and they want half of Texas too…
President; Oil? They want oil? Would they take Canada instead?
Treasury Dept; Uhm… we don’t own Canada.
President; Does China know that?
Treasury Dept; I think so…
President; Well offer them Canada and see what they say. Tell them we’ll throw in Guam, and the tippy thing is just a myth. If they won’t take Canada I guess we might have to cut a deal for Alaska. Are the values of the states marked on the backs of the map pieces here? What do I do, just turn them over and look at the numbers?
Treasury Dept; This isn’t monopoly…
President; Canada. Final offer. Canada or nothing. We still got nukes you know.
Treasury Dept; Actually, we took a loan out on those too. They’re being held as collatoral in Iran. Part of them agreeing not to enrich Uranium anymore, remember that deal?
President; $^&W#R*U!! I should never have taken this job. I must have “inhaled” the day I decided to run for this office. Should have known I couldn’t clean up Obama’s mess in four years. Should never have run against him in the primaries. Shouldn’t have picked my stupid husband for treasury either.
Treasury Dept; I tried to tell you…
President; Shut up Bill.
Treasury Dept; Yes Hillary.
Was that Al Gore I just saw puting in an order for a new A380 Airbus.
Joe Lieberman’s striking resemblance to Howdy Doody is more than ironic.
How can anyone not understand that the bottom line is that the consumers of just about everything get shafted in this deal? It constitutes a tax on every product, commodity and service with a promise that government will give SOME of that tax back to the consumer. The government will decide how that tax money is spent while using the “rebate” as a mechanism for “income redistribution”. The whole thing is a socialist’s wet dream come true. When will folks learn that ALL business and energy taxes are eventually passed on to the consuming public in the form of higher prices.
“Our approach sets an achievable national pollution reduction target and refunds the money raised right back to American consumers and American businesses. This is not at plan that enriches Wall Street speculators. And this is certainly not a plan to grow the government.”
————————————
Right! – pull the other one!
Claude Harvey says:
May 11, 2010 at 11:58 pm
‘How can anyone not understand that the bottom line is that the consumers of just about everything get shafted in this deal? ‘
The CEO of AEP said on CNBC that Co2 Cap and Trade alone will increase cost per KW hr from $.04 to $.07. I know that doesn’t sound like much until you convert it to your electric bill.
This Bill will not make us less dependent on foreign oil, but will make us more dependent on foreign Carbon Credits. How stupid is that? Talk about funding terrorist with oil money. We will be handing them a new revenue stream.
I jumped on Wikipedia and read the article, but it was a lot like walking through pudding: slow going and afterward I felt kinda dirty.
jorgekafkazar: May 11, 2010 at 4:43 pm
Take away the treasonous, slime-covered, Socialist crap, and it’s not too bad.
Because there wouldn’t be anything left.
@davidmhoffer: May 11, 2010 at 9:50 pm
I don’t care who you are, *that* was funny!
And the Health Care Bill was dead at several times during it’s tortured path through Congress. It’s May with a long way to January and a new Congress. Have you all forgotten how many articles there were about not being able to pass health care via recon and then the ones about not being able to pass the “fix” via recon?
First, it’s a tax bill.
Second, it’s a deficit/debt reduction bill.
Thirdly, after giving illegals the vote, it will be all about increasing revenue to defeat the deficit and debt (just in case you missed the VAT drumbeat, etc.).
Before November there are a few GOP Senators which are toast either via retirement or ouster in primaries. We have Bennett, LeMieux, Brownback, Bunning, Bond, Gregg and Voinovich free to vote without facing the voters again. Bunning would never, ever but some of the others like Gregg and Voinovich could. That would give the TARP author and Cleveland mayor to go with the Dems. Then there’s the evil twins from Maine. Even McCain, if Hayworth wins the AZ primary, could easily do what is becoming his Maverick Flop-Flip-Flop and “become historic” once again. So they may not even need Graham to break a filibuster. And don’t forget, these nearly senile Senators have a hard time balancing the nations check book.
Things will become really dangerous after November. A point of order or just anything the Dems care to do in the Senate can force things through with a simple majority vote. It’s clear, imho, that the Dems will lose their almost super majority but will likely retain 50 plus Biden. Eliminating the filibuster until Jan 2013 might be ok with them. The thinking would be so what if they lose the House, they’ll just force everything through “negotiation” where they always advance their agenda. Why not roll the dice?
Then, there’s that recon thing again. Go review Obamacare. And other deviant things they’re most assuredly examining and preparing talking points on.
The Dems, until January and a new Congress, are like vampires but without any silver bullets, garlic or wooden stakes. Oh, and they work mostly at night, behind closed doors and in the upmost secrecy.
davidmhoffer says:
May 11, 2010 at 8:31 pm
But all you Americans are, I think, over reacting. The bill isn’t so bad looking at it from up here in Canada. We have a very long undefended border, lots of space, lots of oil. I say bring your families, bring your SUV’s, we’ll welcome you with open arms. I did mention that you have to come in large groups and bring your factories with you, didn’t I?
Ha-ha. I don’t think we’re at that point just yet, but thanks for the offer. We’ll keep it in mind.
perhaps the solution to the real problem of incompetent bloated gov. is to wall off DC and turn it into a multiplayer video game totally isolated from the real world.
The bill inflicts import tariffs on goods from countries ‘not in compliance’ , YEAH right.
That is another lie. The USA no longer has the “RIGHT” to inflicts import tariffs on goods. Obama’s fellow democrat Mr. Clinton, gave that US “RIGHT” away in 1995. Even the FDA will tell you that.
From the FDA web site: http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~comm/int-laws.html
International Harmonization
“The harmonization of laws, regulations and standards between and among trading partners requires intense, complex, time-consuming negotiations by CFSAN officials. Harmonization must simultaneously facilitate international trade and promote mutual understanding, while protecting national interests and establish a basis to resolve food issues on sound scientific evidence in an objective atmosphere. Failure to reach a consistent, harmonized set of laws, regulations and standards within the freetrade agreements and the World Trade Organization Agreements can result in considerable economic repercussions.“
“…Under the secretive WTO rules, countries can challenge another’s laws for restricting their trade. The case is then heard by a tribunal or court of three trade bureaucrats. They are usually influential corporate lawyers.
The lawyers have no conflict of interest rules binding them, such that a Monsanto lawyer can rule on a case of material interest to Monsanto. Incredibly, the names of the judges are kept secret! Further, there is no rule that the judges of WTO respect any national laws of any country. The three judges meet in secret without revealing the time or location. All court documents are confidential and cannot be published….”
http://www.publiceyeonscience.ch/images/the_wto_and_the_politics_of_gmo.doc
An example of WTO in action can be seen at:
http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/html/114679.htm
http://worldtradelaw.typepad.com/ielpblog/2009/07/the-wto-gmo-dispute-is-13-over.html
and Monsanto’s side of the story:
http://cti.itc.virginia.edu/~meg3c/200R/Private/Monsanto-Europe.doc_4.doc
If Monsanto gets to use the WTO to push its products in the EU and around the world, do you think China and especially India will not strike back at the USA in the same manner?
Here is why India would not allow “import tariffs on goods from India’” whether the pass a cap and trade law or not. http://www.nwrage.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1423
This in a nut shell is why an international agreement is so important. Thanks to the WTO import tariffs can no longer be used in economic wars against other countries. The USA is ‘hoist with our own petard’.
kramer says:
May 11, 2010 at 8:37 pm
Why can’t the government just print up 50 or so billion dollars and give it to researchers, academics, and businesses for development of new energy sources?
This reminds me of the border issue. The border should have been sealed right after 911, instead, the politicians have tied amnesty to a bill that tightens the border.
______________________________________________________________________
The Bill is not needed. The bill to tighten the border was already passed. On Oct 27, 2006 Bush Signed the Bill Authorizing the construction of a fence along 700 miles of the U.S.-Mexico border. But Janet Napolitano opposed a physical fence and advocated a virtual border fence. She has now halted funding to the virtual border fence and the Federal project has been pretty much gutted. American citizens in the border states are therefore building the fence themselves and organizing militias to patrol it! http://www.borderfenceproject.com/
I rather have a fence built by private citizens than through ANOTHER law that will be ignored just like the last one was. Seems the states are finally waking up and starting to do their jobs too. http://www.tenthamendmentcenter.com/category/state-sovereignty-movement/
davidmhoffer says:
May 11, 2010 at 9:50 pm
Treasury Dept; M. President, we regret to inform you that the country has gone bankrupt.
_______________________________________________________
ROTFLMAO, now I have to clean the tea off my screen. Thank you David, I think we all needed that laugh, but unfortunately it is too close to the truth.
davidmhoffer says:
May 11, 2010 at 8:31 pm
“….. I say bring your families, bring your SUV’s, we’ll welcome you with open arms. I did mention that you have to come in large groups and bring your factories with you, didn’t I?”
__________________________________________________________________
Does a flock of sheep, a spinning wheel and looms count as a factory? If so hold a place for me…
Gail Combs;
Does a flock of sheep, a spinning wheel and looms count as a factory? If so hold a place for me…>>
So Gail Combs is a pseudonym for Little Bo Peep? Oh, wait, spinning wheel, that’s Sleeping Beauty? I think Bo Peep gets in, obvious work ethic, concern for flock despite documented incidents of inattention to location but with a commitent to improve performance, over all contributor to the economy. I think Sleeping Beauty is out though. Never saw any actual production from the spinning wheel and when faced with real adversity just went to bed and waited from someone else to fix the problem, not the sort we want. So you’ll have to reveal your True Identity and we’ll decide then.
Gail Combs;
ROTFLMAO, now I have to clean the tea off my screen. Thank you David, I think we all needed that laugh, but unfortunately it is too close to the truth.>>
Sorry about your screen, glad you had a laugh.
Oddly enough, as I watch global events, I recall my high school social studies teacher (we’re talking several decades ago) saying that democracies tend to slide incrementally left over time until some crisis snaps them suddenly to the right. The longer the time of peace and plenty, the further the slide and the larger the crisis needed to snap them back to the right. I can’t help but notice that he seems to be correct.
New Zealand had a massive subsidy system to invest in their agriculture system that drove them so close to bankruptcy that they had to draw down the overdraft protection on all their embassy bank accounts around the world. They killed the subsidies, left of centre parties did a lot of the cutting, and today they have one of the most competitive agriculture systems in the world. Israel was on the edge of bankruptcy in 1985 and had to impose serious taxes and cost cutting, today one of the real bright spots in the global economy. Both left and right parties in Greece have known for years that they were living beyond their means, but it took the current crisis to actually make them do something about it. Britain, Canada, France… a lot of countries have lurched to the right (OK centre) the last few years while the US has continued to slide to the left and seem to be in that extreme zone where facts no longer matter, ideology does. (That’s not a criticism of the left BTW, the same applies when the right goes too far right) Hopefully it won’t take a full blown crisis to snap the Democrats and Republicans both back to reality.
There was a rumour that Germany was lurching right as well, but it turned out not to be true. France out of a sense of urgency, facts unknown, and stakes high, surrendered just in case.
Everything in this bill is catastrophic.
It will raise prices of all imported goods — which is practically everything — while making energy prices skyrocket and pouring additional rebates into the pockets of the non-taxpaying half of the population.
It will continue to rape countryside and wilderness with useless turbine monstrosities enriching fat corporations with subsidies and tax breaks.
It will further line the pockets of carbon-trading speculators.
It will provide even more endless opportunities for pork-barrel boondoggles and vote-buying than the defense budget.
It will even more firmly entrench the lie that CO2 is a pollutant.
In short, it will accomplish the amazing feat of simultaneously destroying our economy, our environment, and our culture all at once. Neither the term “catastrophe” nor the phrase “criminal insanity” approaches an adequate description of this proposal.
D.O.A.
Delusional On Arrival
Being an election year, this bill will be collecting dust on some sub-committee’s shelf. Incumbents are either fighting for their lives in primaries or have already been cast aside. The manic rush we all saw during the ObamaCare fiasco will be subdued as many try to stop the bleeding in their districts. Now, should the Republicans gain control of either chamber, the bill will die. There are some Republicans who buy into this nonsense, but will keep their heads down for now while the heat is still on. No, this bill is DIC, dead in committee, for this cycle.
At least that is my read.
Readers Digest version in bullet points of all the comments:
– Too much big government controlled by mega banks and Corporations on the planet
-Follow the money trail
– A Revolution is badly needed in order to bring back individualism and slay a planetary scale corruption induced by socialism and greed
Idiots and socialism. Always an ugly combination. In this case, as in most cases, the best thing for Congress to do is nothing.
There is no bill
The 4 page intro is not a bill. It is 4 pages of propaganda.
The 21 pages of summary are
Bullet points!!
Not a bill
There is enough in the way of bullet points to make a colorfull dog and pony show with pie charts, graphs and colors (red for heat)
There is no bill.
I suspect that it will develop into a bill of over 1,000 pages in the early hours of the morning on the day the vote is scheduled. As we can clearly see, it will have threats and urgency attached. Obama says all legislation will be approved by congress and visible online for 5 days before he signs it. That means his signature may be on it if it passes before the ink is dry after it was printed for the Senate.
(and Pelosi will confess there will be 800,000 new jobs created immediately upon passing the bill).
The Congressional Budget Office has nothing to work with based on these pages. But they will insist it creates millions of jobs, cuts the deficit and saves us all money with no new taxes.
Gail Combs says:
May 12, 2010 at 5:19 am
You should build a fence around Washington DC instead and not allow anybody to go out. Wouldn´t it be better for you? (I don´t know, and I can not meddle into internal affairs of a foreing nation, but just judging on what you say, that would be the choice)
Nolo Contendere says:
May 12, 2010 at 8:16 am
“Idiots and socialism. Always an ugly combination. In this case, as in most cases, the best thing for Congress to do is nothing.”
________________________________________________________________________
Change that to power hungry multi-billionaires, naive idiots and socialism and you are spot on.
Enneagram says:
May 12, 2010 at 8:55 am
Gail Combs says:
May 12, 2010 at 5:19 am
You should build a fence around Washington DC instead and not allow anybody to go out…..
___________________________________________________________________
What a great idea! I love it. we should do the same for the Gorical
Al needs another house…..back this bill!
Craig Goodrich says:
May 12, 2010 at 7:03 am
In short, it will accomplish the amazing feat of simultaneously destroying our economy, our environment, and our culture all at once. Neither the term “catastrophe” nor the phrase “criminal insanity” approaches an adequate description of this proposal.
=================
Fortunately, they can’t implement a Bill like this in a timely way so by the time it starts to get off the ground we will have replaced Congress and Congress will either repeal or amend all these goofy Bills.
Parts of the Act have merit but don’t go far enough to remedy real problems like Mercury emissions. The CO2 part has yet to be proven and is a very low priority.
John in Virginia Beach says:
May 11, 2010 at 3:31 pm
“How did Lieberman get suckered into putting his name on this?”
Lieberman wasn’t “suckered” into anything. He is a true progressive and a true believer. He and his good friend John McCain are active associates of Globe International which in turn is a partner of the Club of Rome. I supported Lieberman in his last Senate race and McCain for President, but both have exceeded their shelf-life and need to go. Unfortunately, Lieberman is not up for re-election this year…. maybe we could get a re-call petition on the ballot…..
I despair at my own country, the UK. But I always hoped that America would lead the way. But no, you are just signing suicide notes. Please rise up. Tell you Congressman, tell your Senator; this is not the way to go. You are the best and last hope of the West.
Maybe they know something we don’t? Can you create power by cracking or manipulating CO2 (gas to solid to gas closed loop)? Why store it if you can’t use it?
UPDATE:UK Coalition Agrees On Low-CO2; But Divided On Nuclear
Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=201005121237dowjonesdjonline000569&title=updateuk-coalition-agrees-on-low-co2-but-divided-on-nuclear#ixzz0njdz8X1B
“The two parties [U.K.’s new coalition government] agree on the rollout of smart meters and smart grids, more renewable energy, energy efficiency, carbon capture and storage, a green investment bank, a carbon price floor and full auctioning of carbon permits.”
davidmhoffer says:
May 11, 2010 at 8:31 pm
Well, I might not have to move to Canada. With the USA heading toward bankruptcy maybe you guys could just buy up a few states. Since I live in MN that might be one that you’d like. We could put in a few theme parks and you guys could retire here to avoid your winters.
Prong 1: Semantic Deception
Semantic Deception, covered by George Orwell in 1984, calls for lying through the deceitful use of words. Few Americans question the innocent-sounding words/phrases such as “regionalism,” “consolidation,” “democracy” “free trade,” “public/private partnerships,” “school choice,” “base closures” “faith-based,” “freedom,” “patriot,” “security,” “prosperity,” “peace” et al.
Why has no one told the American people that regionalism, be it local, county, state, national or international, is COMMUNISM? The regionalization (consolidation) of the world is quite similar to the three-stage plan outlined by Stalin at the 1936 Communist International. At that meeting, the official program proclaimed: “Dictatorship can be established only by a victory of socialism in different countries or groups of countries, after which there would be federal unions of the various groupings of these socialist countries, and the third stage would be an amalgamation of these regional federal unions into a world union of socialist nations.”
What Stalin called for is taking place in front of our very eyes, with the NAU and other emerging global regional groupings, following the model of the European Union. Regionalism erases constitutional, geographical borders and in so doing does away with locally-elected officials, creating larger and larger municipal units managed by faceless, highly-trained, socialist change agent bureaucrats. A communist writer, Morris Zeitlin, admits that regionalism is communism in an article entitled “Planning is Socialism’s Trademark” published in the Communist Party’s Daily World 11/8/75. Go to deliberatedumbingdown.com where the deliberate dumbing down of America…A Chronological Paper Trail can be downloaded FREE. Zeitlin’s article is found on Page 134.
The Devil’s Seven Prong Fork
By Charlotte Iserbyt (Excerpt from Newswithviews.com)
http://www.channelingreality.com/NWO_WTO/Seven_Prong_Fork.htm#Prong_1:__Semantic_Deception
People better start calling our government out on this BS. The new name of this Cap and Tax bill proves this point.
From the Summary
” Introductory floor and ceiling prices are set at $12 (increasing at 3 percent over inflation annually) and $25 (increasing at 5 percent over inflation annually), respectively.”
Since the Chicago Credit Board price has been @ $0.10 for the last few months, I guess it is just government inflation at work
OT: When it rains it pours.
Interior Secretary: Oil Spill A Call To Move On Climate Change
By Angel Gonzalez, Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
HOUSTON -(Dow Jones)- U.S. Interior Secretary Ken Salazar said Wednesday that a massive, unprecedented oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico is a “clarion call” to move forward with the Obama administration’s ambitious energy and climate change policy goals–but that the immediate goal is to control the leak and make offshore oil and gas production safer.
Read more: http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=201005121348dowjonesdjonline000610&title=interior-secretary-oil-spill-a-call-to-move-on-climate-change#ixzz0njywenjO
Pamela,
Congrats. I switched my affiliation to Independent many years ago. Living in Mass, it didn’t use to mean much, but recent political events here seem to indicate otherwise.
That being said…they’re all politicians, so to some degree suffer the same flaws across party lines.
Back to the bill.
1. They want to push offshore drilling even FURTHER offshore, to 75 miles. Pushing drilling further offshore is at least a part of the problem we’re seeing now with Deep Horizon. The further out we push them, the deeper they have to go, the greater the risk/unknowns, and the bigger the disaster. Foolhardy. There are wells right now off the coast of Cal that could be producing within a month, having been capped just BEFORE they went into production.
2. They know full well that they can talk about boosting nuclear/clean coal all they want, because it’s an empty promise. At the local level, NO ONE will allow it to happen.
Years ago, I served on the planning board of a small community in Central N.H. One of the things that had to be accomplished was the designation of an area suitable for a trailer park. The state had mandated that communities do this to eliminate “snob zoning”, where towns would designate wetlands as “low income/trailer housing”, knowing it was impossible to develop the site. The new laws, at that time, required every community to designate areas that were acceptable for development of a trailer park. Keep in mind this is extremely rural areas, and back in the 80’s.
This is what needs to happen with nuclear power. There needs to be a federal mandate that REQUIRES each state to designate an area that is acceptable for a nuclear plant/clean coal/power production. That’s the only way this will happen. Otherwise, politicians will continue to smile and say “Hey…I voted for the blahblahblah Energy bill that supports blahblahblah”, because they know it’s meaningless.
It’s almost impossible to put up a windmill in Mass. Why? Because people don’t like the looks of them. Not talking about giant commercial wind farms, just an individual windmill for your home. Everyone supports wind power though…they tell me that all the time.
JimB
Isn’t this just a tax increase dressed up in green? They dont even try to hide it:
“First: consumers will come out on top. The American Power Acts sends two-thirds of all revenues not dedicated to rededucing our nation’s deficit back to consumers from day one.”
Que? Not dedicated to reducing the deficit? How much isn’t dedicated then?
Not to mention why to use it for reducing the deficit in the first place?!
This isn’t a ‘green’ bill at all if you ask me. It’s just taxing people. Even if you have no taxable income, you will pay. That’s brilliant! It’s like the toilet tax in ancient Rome.
HA HA HAAA, THE BILL, LET ME AT IT! LET ME AT IT!! GONNA TEAR THAT FRICKIN’ THING TO PIECES! – Kerry-Lieberman bill – all 987 pages http://bit.ly/aTAw8t
This is just what our economy needs right now. 10% of Americans unemployed, one in every 5 males unemployed, business on its knees, new health care mandates, now this. Please tell me this isn’t just a bad dream. And after all the crap coming out of IPCC and East Anglia, the public doesn’t believe this.
Kerry has been a fool forever, but what’s wrong with Joe Lieberman?
Beck is talking about this right now: 5pm et,
Glenn Beck needs any info anyone can provide on Maurice Strong . Like him or not , Beck is basically the only one talking about the AGW scam . Maurice Strong is one of the bad guys , so if you can provide some links please help before they get scrubbed .
All we can say is they better get that well capped or their global warming ‘drill baby drill’ bill is goin’ down the TUBES!
I liked a previous idea; remove all references to CO2 and see what you are left with.
“evanmjones says:
May 11, 2010 at 5:45 pm
I am already done with my lifelong relationship with Democrats. If Republicans and their constituents don’t step up to the plate and fight this tooth and toenail, my vote will flee from them as well….”
Actually, there is only one party, it’s the defacto Globalist Party made up of members from both parties. Their ability to play good cop bad cop, control the MSM and divide the population is what allows them to succeed. For the most part the politicians we elect are just lackeys, who receive contributions from those who control things behind the scenes. Joe Lieberman is the key to keeping both party’s in line, any legislation he sponsors is backed at the highest levels of the real power that runs DC. Who do you think writes these bills anyways, most of those who vote on them can’t even read them.
Reading the summary, it’s unbelievable to all but the ignorant or party faithful. They allow an opt out to coastal drilling, that Gulf accident was might convenient, wasn’t it. Big Oil, which is a monopoly interlocked with international banking, makes far more from imported oil, tax free, using the tax havens. They don’t buy the oil at market price from these nations who need them to get the oil from the ground and to the market, and they sell it to their refineries at market price and book the profits where their oil tankers are registered, which is usually a tax haven.
They commit to 80% carbon emissions, which effectively will reduce standards of living since living standards are directly correlated with energy consumption. Carbon credits are essentially a currency, and allowing it to increase at rates above inflation ensure growth in the carbon credit supply and will depreciate carbon credits. By setting limits for carbon credits to trade at, it allows controlled booms and busts in the market by those who control the market. Conveniently, there are no controls on carbon credit speculation.
The one seemingly decent idea of an import tax on nations who do not control their carbon emissions can be eliminated with a global agreement per the bill, showing the intent that this part may be temporary. Nations like Russia and China will then be encouraged to work out an agreement which allows them to avoid the import tax (actually, they won’t pay anything, the importers will, and the importers will just pass the cost on to the retailer/consumer), while continuing to pollute at will (if CO2 can be called pollution). Nothing to stop whats left of our manufacturing to run away to greener pastures. Those rebates are a pipe dream for obvious reasons, as we will always have a deficit. It’s our pay of paying tribute to the sovereign.
Carbon credits for those who do not know are the basis for the coming global currency that will replace for USD as the reserve currency. We will then need to finance our international debt and trade deficits by borrowing money from an international agency like the IMF with all kinds of strings attached, much like 3rd world nations.
Basically, it is the most damaging legislation since 1913 FR Act and the related bills and the 2001 Patriot Act. It spells the end of the US as we know it. Obama can leave office after 1 terms doing what he was supposed to do, sinking this ship (after Bush and others poked a bunch of holes in it), and maybe moving on to be Secretary General of the UN after 2012.
Once the carbon dollar is globalized, they can put that capstone back on the pyramid. Mission accomplished.
Pft…excellent post. And here I thought I was the only one…
One section of the summary talked about ONLY involving the worst offenders/producers of C02, when means ONLY 7,500 energy plants and factories would be impacted. Only? ONLY????
So according to my basic math skills…that’s an average of 150 of the LARGEST factories/powerplants per state? And they can use the word ONLY to describe this?
And someone thought this would make the bill sound better??? LOL
JimB
This is what has been reported in Australia.
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/australia-left-behind-by-us-emission-trading-bill-20100512-uy9m.html
Patrick,
And of course there’s no mention that this bill will never be passed…
JimB
Yes, it was coming and nothing could stop it.
There have never been any consequences.
Indeed, it’s entirely conceivable that those who whine today will rationalize tomorrow.
That’s the nature of a codependent relationship.
Vote more, why not? It got you where you are today.
Watch the Dan Pearl beheading and see the poster boy of hopey change.
You’re about to get cap & tax.
The free lunch is you.
Yes, vote more. It always does what it always does. Einstein had a word to say about repeating something and expecting different results.
Maybe if you make campaign donations? One can hope?
If you are really sweet and reasonable, your abusive codependents might change?
They don’t have a problem, you know. They’ve solved their problems with cap & tax. Now we have the problem.
It’s very important to understand that the universe can never and will never make a mistake. If expectations are violated, reality is never in error, but one’s perception of it.
Vote until it hurts badly enough to get the lesson. If one hopes really really hard, it might happen before heads are handed out and everybody’s problem is solved.
“JimB says:
May 13, 2010 at 5:59 am
Patrick,
And of course there’s no mention that this bill will never be passed…
JimB”
Of course, not to the Australian public. KRudd747 is dead set on some form of ETS (Everything Taxed System), in fact he is quote, “Passionate”, about climate change, whatever that means, of course all in an election year. His poll ratings are dropping through the floor, various “policies” have failed disasterously. Personally, I am hoping the Australian voting public, which I now qualify, will send a message to our “leaders”, like in the UK, that the “unwashed taxpaying masses” are unhappy with the BS (That is both BS and Bad Science) and the manipulation of the minds of ordinary people in relation to CAGW.
My sister, from the UK, was here recently and she was stunned at how little MSM content is sanitised here. Well, it’s sanitised less than the UK, but it is still sanitised and pro AGW unfortunately.
Looks like Roger Pielke Jr was wrong on this one as the economic hurricanes caused by man made global warming hysteria are indeed on the rise and costing us more than ever before.
A few years from now one of Anthony’s articles may just be titled “America in Receivership: Who Can Afford to Worry About The Weather?”.
I posted earlier yesterday there is no bill. Now there is a bill and it comes up on Kerry;’s website. I have read over 200 out of 987 pages.
The Out right lies are carefully framed. They will allow construction of nuclear plants. That sounds good. They also will fund studies of nuclear plants and safety. So in other words, the safety studies will be used to block nuclear. They will allow offshore drilling ..Later.
But they will invest in safety studies for several years before setting up how this may be done.
One of the stupidest moves is a tax at several levels on energy. They you have to jump thru hoops and paperwork to get a refund. In other words, forget about a refund. There is incredibly much pork hidden in the bill.
CO2 is pollution? By what insane logic do you make that statement? Without CO2 in the atmosphere, life on earth would come to a screeching halt. It is a requirement for life as we know it.
Flawed logic and circular logic is need for the global warming religion to be sustained. And, for the record, temperatures are now falling and have been for some years.
But hey, why would *REAL* science and logic ever prevail in Washington, DC.
Do you really think that Mr. Gore, Barbara Streisand and others actually believe the garbage they spew? How much have they scaled back their emissions? Hint: zero. Yet Gore has become a billionaire off of his convenient lies.
“”” geo says:
May 11, 2010 at 2:27 pm
I don’t suppose this will make me very popular with many of the regulars around here, but I find this bill to be a reasonable compromise at this point in history. Much of what it does works just as well as an energy independence plan, nuclear wakes up from its long slumber, nat gas gets some loving, etc.
And it doesn’t try to craft a 20, 40, 50, or 100 year solution, which is just insanity. Limited goals in limited timeframes and at a reasonable cost in the grand scheme of things.
Maybe I’m coming from a “it could be a lot worse” place in my thinking, but then I’ve always considered myself a “lukewarmist” anyway. “””
Well geo, cap and tax isn’t listed anywhere in the US Constitution in Aticle I Section 8 where it gives the Congress the authority to do just 17 things. More specifically in that section the very first Clause gives the Congress authority “to lay and collect taxes” for just three things.
#1 is “to pay the debts” of the United States.
#2 is “to provide for the common defense” of the United States, and
#3 is “to provide for the general welfare” of the United States.
The United States they refer to is that “more perfect Union” that is one of the three parties to the US Constitution along with “the several States” and “we the people.”
It does not authorise them to provide for the general welfare of every tom, dick, and harry, just that political entity in Washington DC known as “The United States”.
Nowhere does it authorise them to collect taxes for anything else.
Well there is Clause 18 that authorises them to make what laws are “necessary and appropriate” to carry out the first 17 things .
Unfortunately they don’t understand what the word “necessary” means. If there are two or more ways to address some problem (say with a law); then NONE of those ways (laws) is “necessary”, since there are alternatives besides that way (law).
That’s one way to say that the States can take care of the problem in whatever way they see fit (as provided for in their State Constitutions.)
So where do you get off thinking that any of this has anything to do with the Federal Government (aka the United States).
How about an energy/cap and trade bill, that simply says:- “resolved that we do nothing; with regard to this issue; since nothing is “necessary” . “
The mafia has cornered the market on the “recession proof” industries of gambling, prostitution and loan sharking. Software companies require users to upgrade to their newest release every 2-5 years. Financial markets/ Government spending seem to be running on the “ponzi scheme” model.
Where does this leave our elected Representatives, some seem to have combined all the above into a “recession proof” (energy), ever evolving (climate change), ponzi scheme .
They want to set the market price (monopoly?), adjust for inflation and insure future price increases. Combined with subsidies (taxes), no wonder the energy companies are on board.
I’m sick of giving my hard earned money to incompetent, self serving, clueless politicians to spend on their special interests.
All because of a “scary story” , that happened to coincide with the warming trend after the “global cooling” scare of the late 70’s.
Personally, I think Al Gore just got “lucky” (and owes science a debt he can never repay).
“”” davidmhoffer says:
May 12, 2010 at 6:58 am
Gail Combs;
ROTFLMAO, now I have to clean the tea off my screen. Thank you David, I think we all needed that laugh, but unfortunately it is too close to the truth.>>
Sorry about your screen, glad you had a laugh.
Oddly enough, as I watch global events, I recall my high school social studies teacher (we’re talking several decades ago) saying that democracies tend to slide incrementally left over time until some crisis snaps them suddenly to the right. The longer the time of peace and plenty, the further the slide and the larger the crisis needed to snap them back to the right. I can’t help but notice that he seems to be correct.
New Zealand had a massive subsidy system to invest in their agriculture system that drove them so close to bankruptcy that they had to draw down the overdraft protection on all their embassy bank accounts around the world. They killed the subsidies, left of centre parties did a lot of the cutting, and today they have one of the most competitive agriculture systems in the world. “””
Many years ago Scientific American Mag, had a whole issue special, on world energy consumption and world food production.
Basically they studied the relationship between energy input and food output, for every imaginable kind of social structure all over the world.
For example, they studied an “eskimo” society where new energy input; in the form of powder in bullets to use in rifles to shoot seals, instead of spearing them; and gasoline for snowmobiles, instead of food for sled dogs, and how those changes increased their food supply.
What they found was that from the most primitive of cultures and societies, to the biggest and most complex, the relationship between energy input (to the food system) and food production outputs was a straight line; all over the world. Energy input equals food output.
Only two places on earth did not lie on that global straight line function; but were significantly off it, in the direction of being more efficient in producing food with less energy input.
Those two places were France, and New Zealand. In both cases; the efficiency increase, was mainly an accidental benefit of a unique climate/weather pattern in those two places.
I have no idea what the French advantage was, but the NZ thing is fairly obvious. It’s surrounded by water that keeps it at a comfortable temperature range, and it gets plenty of rain and sunshine.
The big problem of course is that France and NZ together, don’t amount to a hill of beans in terms of total world food needs; so their efficiency advantage is largely wasted by lack of capacity to supply much of the world with food.
The message for today though is; if the USA doesn’t get the energy; the world isn’t going to get the food. Not our choice; the food simply won’t be there without the energy.
So you can divert scarce supplies of fossil fuels to fool’s enterprises like ethanol and bio-diesel; just get your votes in for who it is that you want to starve for lack of food.
Of course with this present Marxist lunatic bunch in Washington, and elsewhere; that elimination of much of the world population is the goal anyway.
Just a note to the population planners; you may think you are going to get to choose the losers and the winners; so has every Tyranical regime of insane zealots in history.
Have you ever seen a more incompetent; yet deadly bunch of mentally deranged individuals, than Obama has assembled (including himself) in your life.
Well you wanted change; so now you are going to get it.
When you toss all the elements of a working system up in the air; you generally don’t get to choose where all the pieces come down.
Could’nt all of this,,,these things globally mean we are all a little AFRAID of the things coming in VERY rapid succession.Left,Right does’nt matter NOW
Well if you happen to be one of those people who sees a future of hydrogen powered electric vehicles or hybrids like Super-Piuses, get ready for a good dose of reality.
Guess which Country is the world’s biggest producer of Rare Earth metals that are so necessary in efficient magnets for efficient electric motors.
Well it’s your friendly Communist Red China. Guess how much of the total world production they account for. HOW DOES 95% GRAB YOU ? A single Pius contains a whole Kilogram of Neodymium.
The ODD has a prototype hybrid electric drive for an Aegis Class destroyer; and its motor magnets are built in Communist Red China.
Welcome to the future.
Beware, the winds of change, they are rising.