Climate Craziness of the Week: British lawyer urges UN to accept ‘ecocide’ as international crime on par with genocide

Supporters of a new ecocide law also believe it could be used to prosecute “climate deniers”. Effort started by Club of Rome lawyer.

Excerpts from the Guardian article:

A campaign to declare the mass destruction of ecosystems an international crime against peace – alongside genocide and crimes against humanity – is being launched in the UK.

The proposal for the United Nations to accept “ecocide” as a fifth “crime against peace”, which could be tried at the International Criminal Court (ICC), is the brainchild of British lawyer-turned-campaigner Polly Higgins.

The radical idea would have a profound effect on industries blamed for widespread damage to the environment like fossil fuels, mining, agriculture, chemicals and forestry.

Supporters of a new ecocide law also believe it could be used to prosecute “climate deniers” who distort science and facts to discourage voters and politicians from taking action to tackle global warming and climate change.

“Ecocide is in essence the very antithesis of life,” says Higgins. “It leads to resource depletion, and where there is escalation of resource depletion, war comes chasing behind. Where such destruction arises out of the actions of mankind, ecocide can be regarded as a crime against peace.”

Higgins, formerly a barrister in London specialising in employment, has already had success at the UN with a Universal Declaration for Planetary Rights, modelled on the human rights declaration. “My starting point was ‘how do we create a duty of care to the planet, a pre-emptive obligation to not harm the planet?'”

After a successful launch at the UN in 2008, the idea has been adopted by the Bolivian government, who will propose a full members’ vote, and Higgins has taken up her campaign for ecocide.

See the Guardian article for the rest

==================

Polly Higgins, the lawyer behind the idea of ecocide, is on the board of DESERTEC  (www.desertec.org). As press releases make clear [quote] “The DESERTEC Foundation is a charitable initiative of the Club of Rome” Polly Higgins can be seen listed as a board member on the press releases of DESERTEC. E.g. here: http://www.desertec.org/fileadmin/downloads/press/press-release_090616_en.pdf

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212 thoughts on “Climate Craziness of the Week: British lawyer urges UN to accept ‘ecocide’ as international crime on par with genocide

  1. Most of us will chuckle at this, but we might not be laughing about it in a few years. Who would have ever believed the US would socialise its health care?

  2. From http://www.climate-resistance.org/2010/04/against-humanity.html

    “Ecocide” is defined as

    “The extensive destruction, damage to or loss of ecosystem(s) of a given territory, whether by human agency or by other causes, to such an extent that peaceful enjoyment by the inhabitants of that territory has been severely diminished.”

    Of particular interest is this passage…

    “Supporters of a new ecocide law also believe it could be used to prosecute “climate deniers” who distort science and facts to discourage voters and politicians from taking action to tackle global warming and climate change.”

    The key premise of the campaign is that,

    “extraction [of resources from the planet] leads to ecocide, which leads to resource depletion, and resource depletion leads to conflict.
    Thus, “ecocide” is equivalent to genocide.”

    The first passage quoted above reveals the truth. What environmentalism objects to is human agency.

    It is a twist of logic that has made equivalence of humanity’s ability to transform its own predicament and a crime against humanity.

    Humanity, in other words, is a crime against humanity.

  3. Anybody see China voting yes?Sometimes you have to be thankful for the Chinese government.They save us from these fools.

  4. Munich Re, Siemens, Desertec want to build huge solar-thermal power plants in the Sahara plus high voltage DC transmission to Europe.

    By introducing anti-CO2 legislation and the threat of whatever arbitrary sentence to arbitrary companies or persons – difficult to say how ecocide laws will be used – they might be able to force utilities to buy their product – pretty expensive electricity.

    Polly is just an employee doing her job, and given that it’s a filthy job it is probably well paid.

    Ordinary crookery.

  5. It has become painfully obvious that the UN is a failure (OK, it’s been obvious for a while now). Much of the UN agenda is counter to the protections guaranteed in the U.S. Constitution so I’m thinking it would be better if the U.S. would simply withdraw and boot the organization from New York. The first time the UN files charges of ecocide on an American person or entity, I say come and get ’em, if you can.

    I used to naively think it was in our best interest to participate with the other nations of the world to work for our common good. Now I realize that this type of cooperation is not even on the UN’s radar screen. It is an organization inhabited by thugs with the goal of bringing the U.S. and other western nations down. The thugs are aided and abetted by left-wing do-gooders from the affluent western nations who hate their own countries as much as the thugs.

    I’m an optimist and I think there is much the U.S. and other countries can do, outside of the UN organization, to help others. I think it is time to bypass the bloated, corrupt UN and starve it out of existence. Money is power and power corrupts, so cut them off at the knees by closing our checkbooks. I certainly don’t recognize their authority.

  6. Actually, lawyers are an endangered species…Polly, Polly…wakey, wakey…No, she’s dead parrot…etc… Sorry, couldn’t just resist…Well, no more comments needed, or??

  7. actually, i hope the UN accepts this.

    that would finally be the bridge too far that would cause massive defections from and likely the ultimate dissolution of one of the of the most corrupt and dangerously incompetent organizations in history.

  8. “Universal Declaration for Planetary Rights”?

    Why do I keep thinking that this means that Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars should get together and complain about Jupiter and Saturn hogging all the methane?

    Perhaps the Moon should ask for an apology for the Late Heavy Bombardment?

  9. In short you must obey the party (the Angkar – re The Killing Fields) with all your heart, your mind and body. Today is the day zero, there is no past, only the Ankar. Chilling!!

  10. “morganovich (08:43:41) :

    actually, i hope the UN accepts this.

    that would finally be the bridge too far […]”

    morganovich, it’s a very down-to-earth gambit that large companies do all the time: influence legislation to force competition out of business or increase their cost of operation. NOTHING about it is ethical, moral or anything of the kind, not even political; it’s 100% money driven and it will be used very finely tuned to gradually knuckle-bend competition down, all the while avoiding to scare the chickens (but taking their money).

  11. I don’t follow the logic.

    “Ecocide is in essence the very antithesis of life,” says Higgins. “It leads to resource depletion, and where there is escalation of resource depletion, war comes chasing behind…”

    So those who would “create” the circumstances in which war might be declared will be guilty, but not necessarily those who actually declare war or prosecute a war?

  12. Hopefully they will have reeducation camps for the “climate deniers” they find guilty, possibly in Siberia since its so balmy there these days.

  13. “The extensive destruction, damage to or loss of ecosystem(s) of a given territory, whether by human agency or by other causes, to such an extent that peaceful enjoyment by the inhabitants of that territory has been severely diminished.”

    Aren’t windmill installations a good match here?
    Who to punish?

    However, this is not funny anymore. Ecofascism is what comes to mind.
    Read who is applauding such ideas in the comments section.

  14. She will have to charge herself for flying around promoting this nonsense, then she can join everyone on the planet in jail.

  15. Yes, but what are the chances they would apply this to windmill farms and biofuel agriculture? Essentially they would still pick and choose which forms of “ecocide” were politically correct and which weren’t.

    So they’ve got the backing of Bolivia – now I’m worried!

  16. Self-righteous twit. The loons in the Obama administration will likely applaud the idea. It is not like the UN has any real problems to deal with.

  17. Elizabeth (Canada) (08:50:03) :
    And, coming soon to a city near you, the Thought Police.

    Exactly. This initiative only serves to demonstrate the would be totalitarian nature and desires of many on the warmist side of the debate, for it is the totalitarian who seeks to criminalize thought and opinion.

  18. “The radical idea would have a profound effect on industries blamed for widespread damage to the environment like fossil fuels, mining, agriculture, chemicals and forestry.”

    Gee, just about everything that keeps human beings alive.

    QUELLE SUPRISE!!!!!!

  19. This is an invitation to court litigation that should be avoided at all costs by AGW proponents. One must be careful what one wishes for.

  20. I posted this up at the Guardian:

    It’s obvious that the alarmist have lost the argument that is why they first resorted to smear tactics, then onto “better safe than sorry”, then onto “appeal to authority” [IPCC] and finally onto legal action from the IPCC’s supporters the UN. If alarmists think that this is going to stop legitimate scepticism then you have lost the plot. For example most people in the UK don’t believe man has caused AGw. Maybe this is the reason for the ever more shrill alarmist calls and threats of legal action. IT WILL FAIL.

    If you really want to argue the science and believe that the climate of earth used to be in some sort of equillibrium which man has disturbed then I point you to Professor Richard Lindzen of MIT who has something to say about it (click here).

  21. “The extensive destruction, damage to or loss of ecosystem(s) of a given territory, whether by human agency or by other causes, to such an extent that peaceful enjoyment by the inhabitants of that territory has been severely diminished.”

    Can we use this to take action against windfarms?? It seems to cover most of the problems with them.
    (sarc)
    Don’t think it will work though as windfarms are completely green and do no harm to the environment(/sarc off)

    tho only other comment i can make is “stupid cow”

  22. Deliberate environmental destruction can be a serious crime, but it doesn’t become something else and more sinister just by inventing a word that ends in “cide”.

    It’s well known that democracies don’t make war against each other, so the ones who should be suspected of causing war indirectly are the ones who want to move towards dictatorship and abolish freedom of speech for “denialists”.

  23. Now we have the law on our side, we only need the uniforms!

    Watch it, the ECO NAZI’s are coming!

    Climate craziness unlimited!

  24. Yes, this is the true face of the AGW agenda.

    For all of us who believed that any talk about the Club of Rome means that the one mentioning it is a crazy conspiracy theorist…. it seems this is real.

    The Club of Rome exist and is at work. And we should fear it.

    Because these ideas can lead to war. Step by step they will lead us into a situation where we live in a POL POT regime.

    And remember; The first step of genocide, is to put a demeaning name on the victim. Denialist. Untermensch. Kraut.

    Then the next step, the killing of the Untermensch, the Denialist, the Kraut, is much easier. They are, after all, not proper humans?

    Right? Seen it before? But instead of Hitler Jugend, it will be Green Police.

    Or as they call it on Norwegian TV; The ask parents (In commercials) to let the young join “Environment Agents”, who can rat on parents and friends. Its the first small step.

  25. And some sort of decree not to use resources will not lead to massive discontent and war? Seems to me in my limited knowledge that peaceful people are people who have what they need to live, and it is the quest for resources that drives war. It also seems to me that war is one of the most environmentally destructive things humans do. What craziness!!

  26. This is disturbing. CEOs of companies go on a business trip, and at the airport, ecocide groups take them to jail, or if this fails, how does such a thing not empower environmentalist groups to ‘take matters in to their own hands’? Even a serious consideration of this policy is damaging to the truth behind the term ‘Crime against Humanity’.

    Second, what is with the new overuse of the term? Rwandans, Jews, and Armenians know something about crimes against humanity. The logic that leads to this sort of assumption makes us all criminals against humanity! We are all eco-killers! Here is hoping some common sense prevails, but I won’t hold my breath.

  27. “In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill…”

    Club of Rome

    We have arrived at a point where a mini ice age in the northern hemisphere would be a blessing because it will put paid to 3 decades of systemic lies and deceit about man’s effect on the atmosphere.

    If the warmists are allowed to run their course, and nature does not intervene, then we won’t need a crime of ecocide because genocide already covers what they are leading a substantial proportion of the world population into.

  28. I would be happy to contribute my tax dollars to building a new UN building in Port Au Prince.

  29. So waht does this crazy woman know about climate change? Not a lot in case anyone was in any doubt.

  30. Polly is a very unhappy angry person and her type attracts unhapply angry persons into large mobs and mobs attract the less hung-up types as well. I personally knew a few young students who spent more time in rabid protest mode on myriad causes than in studying their courses (perhaps this is why they studied subjects that needed little attendance to pass with flying colors from professors who themselves were unhappy with their lot). They had pushed the envelope on a number of occasions, engaging in aggressive civil disobedience to the point of being arrested. The other thing I knew about these few students was that they curiously all hated their fathers, (apparently also their country and I suspect themselves). One father I would have to agree was a pretty hateable guy. I even hate the guy because, not only did he ruin his family he contributed another warrior to the cause of destruction of productive, peaceful society. I think an objective study of overzealous protesters personalities would be very revealing, likely showing that the calculus of big issue protests is really the integral of the personal anger of individuals with axes to grind with their parents and the nameplate issue is irrelevant. You can be sure that such a “survey” will never be done (social sciences don’t take on this type of thing).

  31. Polly’s wikipedia article only contains stuff she did since 2008 as an eco-activist, fighting for the rights of trees and planets. But interestingly there’s a short list of her education:
    St Aloysius College, Scotland
    Aberdeen University, Scotland, 1986 – 1991 Cultural History MA, First
    Utrecht University, The Netherlands, 1990 – 1991 Semiology Dip, First
    Glasgow University, Scotland, 1991 – 1992 Decorative Arts Post-Grad Dip, Merit
    City University, London, 1996 – 1997, Law Dip
    Call to the Bar, London UK 1998 (Middle Temple)

    …and after these various stints and her short-lived retail career i mentioned above she suddenly appears on the green scene in 2008:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polly_Higgins

    “In April 2008 Polly also founded WISE Women in Sustainability and the Environment – an international network […]”
    “After addressing the United Nations in November 2008 Polly founded the campaign Trees Have Rights Too in order to gain global support for a Universal Declaration of Planetary Rights.”

  32. China has just spent £41.5 billion on the military.
    The UK sent China £170 million in aid this year.
    There is madness in the world.

  33. Eco-blimey, this is really eco-too much. Will there be ecoxecutions for eco-transgressors?
    Ecoloons, God preserve us from them.

  34. I like M of B’s term: the traffic light tendency. Greens too yellow to admit they are red.
    ==============

  35. This is what the batty tight-lipped woman looks like

    I can see the cruel mania was spreading from her brain to her eyes for some time.

    This is an amazing interview with her…

    http://www.everywoman.com/YourBusiness/Successstories/?id=313

    Yes, another lawyer and elitist with loads of money who wants to tell us how we should live and make just about anything illegal if it gets in the way of her interests. She’s yet another person with an expanding business who basically wants more laws in place to make competition against her difficult.

    And to prove that she is as much a dimwit as Gordon Brown and the Millibands, she can’t tell the difference between an aerial assault and a suicide bomb in a rucksack. About the attacks on London’s transport system, she said:

    “I didn’t know if London was being bombed from above, or what was happening. ”

    Ever heard the sound of jets, fool?!

  36. Just a wild thought: Does telling huge lies about climate change count as “ecocide” if those lies are in the warmist direction? After all, if we spend huge amounts of time and resources on a falsehood, it takes away from real problems. Maybe the various warmists out there should be careful what they wish for.

  37. Prior to last November this was standard eco-rhetoric. Even high level government officials were making such noises.

    Funny what time can do.

  38. My definition of “ecocide” – Deaths that occur as a result of trendy environmental policy. I’d like to nominate for prosecution the people that brought us biofuel mandates leading increased poverty and starvaton of populations living marginal lands in undevelopled countries.

  39. ‘how do we create a duty of care to the planet, a pre-emptive obligation to not harm the planet?’”

    “Pre-emptive”?

    Now where did I hear that phrase last?

  40. “extraction [of resources from the planet] leads to ecocide, which leads to resource depletion, and resource depletion leads to conflict.
    Thus, “ecocide” is equivalent to genocide.”

    Resources that can’t be extracted are not resources

  41. Here is a gem from her blog:

    h3. 5) Do you agree with a Climate Justice Tribunal to judge those who destroy Mother Earth? YES or NO

    Typical. ‘Destroy Mother Earth’ is very ill defined. No wonder she isn’t a lawyer anymore.

  42. Shades of 2000AD’s “Dark Judges”?
    “From a twisted dimension where life itself is a crime come Judges Death, Fear, Fire and Mortis.”

  43. Those who can, do. For them, life is the sacred standard.

    Those who can’t become environmental activists, and they operate under a far different standard.

    Simple choice — life or the green shirts.

  44. Okay, well increasing CO2 emissions are apparently increasing tropical forest productivity, so I guess they won’t be including the promotion of carbon emissions under ‘ecocide’…

    Effects of rising temperatures and [CO2] on the physiology of tropical forest trees

    Author(s): Lloyd J (Lloyd, Jon), Farquhar GD (Farquhar, Graham D.)2
    Source: PHILOSOPHICAL TRANSACTIONS OF THE ROYAL SOCIETY B-BIOLOGICAL SCIENCES Volume: 363 Issue: 1498 Pages: 1811-1817
    Year: 2008

    Abstract: Using a mixture of observations and climate model outputs and a simple parametrization of leaf-level photosynthesis incorporating known temperature sensitivities, we find no evidence for tropical forests currently existing ‘dangerously close’ to their optimum temperature range. Our model suggests that although reductions in photosynthetic rate at leaf temperatures (T-L) above 30 degrees C may occur, these are almost entirely accountable for in terms of reductions in stomatal conductance in response to higher leaf-to-air vapour pressure deficits D. This is as opposed to direct effects of T-L on photosynthetic metabolism. We also find that increases in photosynthetic rates associated with increases in ambient [CO2] over forthcoming decades should more than offset any decline in photosynthetic productivity due to higher D or T-L or increased autotrophic respiration rates as a consequence of higher tissue temperatures. We also find little direct evidence that tropical forests should not be able to respond to increases in [CO2] and argue that the magnitude and pattern of increases in forest dynamics across Amazonia observed over the last few decades are consistent with a [CO2]-induced stimulation of tree growth.

  45. “extraction [of resources from the planet] leads to ecocide, which leads to resource depletion, and resource depletion leads to conflict.
    Thus, “ecocide” is equivalent to genocide.”

    Giving birth leads to children, which leads to adults, which leads to consuming resources, which leads to extraction of resources, which leads to ecocide etc.
    Thus giving birth is equivalent to genocide therefore everyone should be sterilised.

  46. Maybe somebody should tell her — and all those other uneducated people like Gordon Brown in the UK — the correct meaning of the much-abused prefix “eco” . It comes from the Greek word oikos meaning house, household or family, and hence more generally “human society.” These fools talk about “eco-towns” and now “ecocide.” Ms Higgins’s proposal would indeed entail killing off much of human society if she succeeded in closing down what keeps so many people alive and thriving.

  47. Ah, yes. The Club of Rome.

    “The common enemy of mankind is man.”

    Anyone who can come up with this is not just an idiot, they are against life. But they always accuse others of their own idiocies.

    I once heard our former UK Prime Minister, Tony Blair, in a TV interview, say “there needs to be a blood sacrifice.” I only heard it once; the context meant that humans were the victims; maybe he was told not to repeat it. He is a member of the Club of Rome. Could this mean that, a là Lenin, we need to be terrorised into compliance of thought and deed? As was said earlier:

    johnythelowery (09:07:20) :

    ……………I mean……who do these people think they are?

    The trouble is, it has never, and will never, work. But they are too ‘post-normal’ ever to be wrong. So it must be the rest of the universe that is in error.
    ————–
    Phillip Bratby (09:24:00) :

    So waht does this crazy woman know about climate change? Not a lot in case anyone was in any doubt.

    But you must understand, not knowing anything about it, and knowing zilch about science, makes her a fully qualified “climate change expert.”

  48. I’ve never met a “climate denier” in my life…

    Nobody denies the existence of “climate” or “climate change”. (insert slap forehead here)

    To correct the dogmatic alarmists in their usage of vocabulary, the proper description of us heathens is : “Those who are skeptical and question certain scientific aspects of the AGW hypothesis.”

    AGW is not climate.

    *sigh*

  49. Is it not true that there is a real estate glut in Dubai?
    Move the UN there.
    Get them out of here [N.America].

  50. You can’t make this stuff up!

    From the everywoman article (http://www.everywoman.com/YourBusiness/Successstories/?id=313):

    >>>On July 7th 2005 Polly was standing in her [London] kitchen when she heard a huge explosion that shook the foundations of her home. “I had no idea what was going on” says Polly, “… What soon became clear was that this was a series of terrorist bombings… I remember saying: ‘There has to be a better way. We have to make this a better world, one where people aren’t driven to take such terrible action’.”<<<

    So, in response to the mindless punitive action taken by someone who refuses to tolerate other people's views, what does Polly do "to make this a better world"? She calls for mindless punitive action as someone who refuses to tolerate other people's views.

    They're all coming out of the woodwork now.

  51. Every species has an effect on it’s environment. It seems technological humans will sligthly warm the planet.

    If we start to listen to these people, it is nearly impossible to produce energy. Solar energy is not totally green, the panels are black and they change the planet’s albedo. Wind is not better, birds are killed by them and they have an effect on average wind speed. Nuclear is beaten to death by a lot of greenies. Hydro-plants have a big impact on the river they sit on.

    In the end, thoses people want the death of technologies…

  52. Dave F (09:39:45) :

    Apparently trees=humanity. They have rights too!

    http://www.treeshaverightstoo.com/

    Guess eating vegetarian violates the ecocide rules?

    After all, according to Polly, in the ‘Universal Declaration of All Beings’ graphic at this blogspot, all beings are entitled to the ‘Right to Exist’, and if we eat vegetarian, we must be violating this right.

    I am having a moral brainstorm about the bread I eat. Not only is it made of ground up seeds, it has whole seeds added. This means I am eating the children of plants. Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh!

  53. She is proof that a prefrontal lobotomy does not help her condition.

    Sadly she probably thinks she is “saving the planet”!

    Better she retires to her mud hut and stops exhaling CO2

  54. Alberta Slim (10:12:51),

    Dubai would be nice, because it’s so far away. But I still like Haiti. The weather’s fabulous, and the UN kleptocrats can feel even more smug and superior to the locals, as their blue helmeted smurfs clear the human detritus off of the land with the best views to build their walled compounds, raping and pillaging like they normally do as one of the perqs of their job.

    Either way, New York City wouldn’t keep losing $millions every year in unpaid parking violations protected by diplomatic immunity, traffic congestion would be reduced, and the Turtle Bay UN HQ would bring in many millions more in rents that currently are provided to the America-hating UN free of charge. Win-win!

  55. The radical idea would have a profound effect on industries blamed for widespread damage to the environment like fossil fuels, mining, agriculture, chemicals and forestry.

    Fossil fuel industry? Check.

    Mining? Check.

    Agriculture? Check.

    Chemicals? Check.

    Forestry? Check.

    Okay, first country to stand in the dock for ecocide is — may I have the envelope and a drumroll, please? — *BOLIVIA*! Congratulations!

  56. The true religious (Ii.e. faith based) nature of this popular culture fad is finally boiling to the surface. The UN has been the source of their scripture. The universities have become their houses of worship. Why shouldn’t the ICC become the origin of their ‘inquisition’?

    Isn’t it ironic that these humanist rabble resort to the tactics of previous ‘defenders of the faith’ when their dogma is questioned?

    Just goes to show that if you don’t believe in something, you’ll believe in anything! All we can do now is mock them and laugh at their gyrations as they try to prop up the house of cards constructed by their secular prophets.

  57. OK, then….the Indonesians are ravaging their tropical forests in order to plant palm oil plantations, and the Germans are buying the oil for biodiesel in order to save the environment….

    http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/utilities/article7094214.ece

    So, whom do we prosecute? Illegal supply/demand requires at least two criminals….just look at the international sex trade (which the UN does nothing about either).

    What a load of biomass!!

  58. While litigation is an important step in this issue, the dark ages started in a way simliar to this when religious leaders became political leaders, likely a response to liberal thinkers and direction not desired by others. It is important to consider that the dark ages were not our best response in wanting change. I think any kind of response to the powers that be needs careful consideration lest we get the other side of the same coin.

  59. “Fossil fuel industry? Check.

    Mining? Check.

    Agriculture? Check.

    Chemicals? Check.

    Forestry? Check.”

    And what about the trinkets industry, of which she is a part? I bet if you gathered up all the useless trinkets in the world and put them all into a box, that box would be fri**in huge!

    ;)

  60. “Peter S (10:14:37) :
    […]
    was a series of terrorist bombings… I remember saying: ‘There has to be a better way. We have to make this a better world, one where people aren’t driven to take such terrible action’.”<<<

    So, in response to the mindless punitive action taken by someone who refuses to tolerate other people's views, what does Polly do "to make this a better world"? She calls for mindless punitive action as someone who refuses to tolerate other people's views."

    No no, you have it wrong. In response to the London attacks she decided to make the world a better place by going into eco-retail!

    After that business faltered, she decided in 2008 to save the planet by becoming a Desertec mouthpiece (and promoting funny law initiatives).

  61. Actually cob houses are amazing. They stay cool in the summer and are easy to keep heated in the winter. Plus design possibilities are endless as long as the height of each wing is limited. Dry climates are the perfect setting for such houses and I would build one in a New York minute!

  62. @Al Gore’s Holy Hologram (09:42:20)
    ————————————————————-
    “I didn’t know if London was being bombed from above, or what was happening. ”

    Ever heard the sound of jets, fool?!
    ————————————————————-

    …but two African swallows could easily carry a bomb on a line held under the dorsal guiding feathers?

  63. I think their is as much chance of this happening as pigs developing the ability to fly!

    Their are some very strange agendas out there.

  64. If this was April First I would know what to do. It is not, so do I laugh or cry? Is this theater of the absurd or honest sophistry taken to some extreme? It is just this kind of neo-Utopian baffle gab that will force me to become a true cynic. It is just think kind of thing that gives misanthropeism a certain kind of attractiveness.

  65. Why don’t all us sceptics join the Club of Rome? With enough of us as members we can effectively change it from within.

    Where do I get a membership form?

  66. Let them first put their own house in order!
    – They prohibited environmentally safe incandescent lamps and introduced energy-saving fluorescent lamps that contain mercury and spread dangerous UV light;
    – They introduced biofuels that are harming significantly food production in developing countries and that not contribute to reducing CO2 emissions;

    It is probable they are preparing us to pay more for energy. Each wind industry job creates huge state-funded subsidies. In this way, the price for the consumers will be more than twice they pay currently. (Wind power is a complete disaster, ICECAP, 25-2-2010) The only way to counter the growing dissatisfaction of the people will be the creation of an International Criminal Court (ICC). A nice prospect!

  67. The ultimate answer to ecocide is genocide.

    Of course, sparing the enlightened like Ms. Polly, who will always live high on the hog. With drastically reduced human populations comes drastic reductions in demand on those oh so precious resources that eco-loons obsess over.

  68. I guess they’re ignorant that their financially based hoax is slowly fading away…, and they’re trying to commit genocide on Clmate Skeptics… wow. Pathetic. Only a year ago, I believed in this junk, but these recent events have turned me into a skeptic.

  69. From http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/policy.html?Itemid=0

    In Their Own Words – Policy:

    “We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis…”
    – David Rockefeller, Club of Rome executive member

    “The concept of national sovereignty has been immutable, indeed a sacred principle of international relations. It is a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation”
    – UN Commission for Global Governance report (1999)

    “Effective execution of Agenda 21 will require a profound reorientation of all human society, unlike anything the world has ever experienced a major shift in the priorities of both governments and individuals and an unprecedented redeployment of human and financial resources. This shift will demand that a concern for the environmental consequences of every human action be integrated into individual and collective decision-making at every level”
    – excerpt, UN Agenda 21

    Club of Rome – Reshaping the International Order (1976):
    http://repub.eur.nl/resource/pub_7970/index.html

    Club of Rome – To master the threats of climate change we have to redefine and reorient economic growth:
    http://www.clubofrome.org/eng/cor_news_bank/20/

    UN Sponsored Poster Campaign Depicts Humans As Evil Monsters:
    http://www.prisonplanet.com/un-sponsored-poster-campaign-depicts-humans-as-evil-monsters.html

    James Corbett – A Message to the Environmental Movement Your movement has been hijacked:
    http://www.corbettreport.com/articles/20091125_enviro_message.htm

  70. I can remember back when some liberals struck me as being too generous and too tolerant.

    This lady’s ideas strike me as being the antithesis of tolerance.

    Hers are not the deeds of a peacemaker.

    In a sense her suggestions cannot be tolerated, and therefore shove me against my will into a position of intolerance. It is going to take a mustering of great forbearance on my part to avoid being tricked into a war-like response, (which may be exactly what they desire.)

    I still believe these people can be defeated by reason, and quiet common sense.

  71. On a serious note, given that we know Greenpeace activists, Hansen, Gore, Suzuki, the Australian PM, and other AGW promoters all support criminalization and/or terrorism against those who disagree or resist, we should not really be surprised at this sort of disgusting filth from yet another extremist.

  72. The ONLY way to accomplish her idiotic goals is to kill off 90 percent of the world’s population. She’s an unrealistic, money-grabbing moron.

    She makes Jones et al look good. But it is the likes of Gore and Jones et al that give credibility to idiots like Higgins. We live in sad times.

    Whoever raised the issue of wind farms is spot on.

  73. Alberta Slim (10:12:51) :

    Is it not true that there is a real estate glut in Dubai?
    Move the UN there.
    Get them out of here [N.America].

    Unfortunately, the UN needs to stay in New York where members of a (still) relatively free and open society can keep an eye on foolishness such as this.

  74. “My starting point was ‘how do we create a duty of care to the planet, a pre-emptive obligation to not harm the planet?’”

    Pre-emptive and obligation are the key words.
    The obligation is to the new Religion of Gaia.
    Pre-emptive means to strike at all who oppose the belief system.
    The law is intended to sanction the elimination of opposition & seizure of wealth.

    One may choose to do business with whom one is comfortable doing business with, but if one wishes to do business by destroying the opposition, understand that the opposition may choose to oblige you by getting you first.
    Half of the world powers do not agree with the new Religion of Gaia.
    Has the lawyer bothered to check the balance of power sheet lately?
    While the new law might be busy purging (and weakening) the West, the other part of the world may decide to start siezing territory .
    That’s a mighty dangerous move, this pre-emptive internal strike.
    I would give the odds of external forces moving on the newfound opportunity as better than even. The world has not changed all that much in the last 2000 years.

  75. I’m not laughing. Eco Zealotry appears to be intensifying. Perhaps just an artifact of a complicit presidency, but very worrisome nonetheless. This fanaticism won’t disappear, even in the face of direct evidence to the contrary. What is needed is for an American President to call out Al Gore et al, and literally crush the CAGW argument.

  76. Caleb (11:12:25) :

    It is going to take a mustering of great forbearance on my part to avoid being tricked into a war-like response,

    My forbearance is extinct and I can’t find the wherewithall.

  77. In the County of Kent many years ago, we had a saying; “As silly as a box of high hats”. Never did know where it came from, but it’s so daft, it’s the only thing that seems to fit this stupidity.

    Some of our Greenies really should get out a bit more.

    The fact that such errant nonsense is even considered, is truly alarming!

  78. I’ve just used Desertec’s contact page…

    http://www.desertec.org/en/foundation/contact/

    …to ask if the following is company policy:

    “Supporters of a new ecocide law also believe it could be used to prosecute “climate deniers” who distort science and facts to discourage voters and politicians from taking action to tackle global warming and climate change.”

    Nothing to do with them, I know, but it may ruffle a few feathers once they realize they’re being splashed with paint from an eco-freak’s brush. Good or bad for business? I don’t know that either, but I’m sure someone at Desertec will.

  79. I just added to my collection of “automatic weapons” this last weekend.

    It’s a beauty!

    People ask, “why do you enjoy this hobby so much”. I simply say, “Anyone can cut down a tree. But it takes a REAL “ecocide bomber” to SHOOT one down.”

  80. The eco-loons just keep getting loonier, and frankly, more dangerous to both humanity and the environment. They essentially want to destroy wealth, which will lower standards of living, threatening the poor especially with resulting higher mortality rates, particularly children. If anyone needs to be dragged before an international court, it is they. Polly herself should probably do about 5 to 10, for her part.

  81. well theyll really get ‘consensus’ this time

    If hounding people and ruining their careers and calling them deniers instead of scientists and mass AL Gore propaganda fear-mongering isnt enough to announce consensus.
    Just send in the men with guns.

  82. What is it with these people and all the gloom and doom?
    They could screw up a sunny day. We should move all of
    them to an island that we call “I hate myself island”.

  83. Polly is getting so scary that I think that I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

  84. Only the english. Another middle class woman who wants for nothing, has never wanted for anything,talking rubbish.More money for the lawyers, keep the poor poor.
    You never hear poor people calling for less development.
    I would like to point out that we are not all this crazy!
    uk steve

  85. Britain appears to have very low standards to be admitted for the practice of law. I would suggest prosecuting this twit and her ilk for attempted crimes against humanity. Well past time for the UN and their corruptocrats to go. If the US and Japan stopping giving them money the UN wouldn’t last long. I wouldn’t wish them on Haiti — those people have suffered enough.

  86. In the UK, this type is often referred to as being a ‘champagne socialist’. Tony Blair’s lawyer wife Cherie – possibly the most reviled woman in the country – is one of them.

    Protected from having to face the realities of the real world by their wealth and legal ability, their goofy ideas – if enacted – would cause mayhem. As a typical proponent of political correctness, she and her ilk deserve our utter contempt.

    Good to see she is supported by Bolivia’s Evo Morales, a socialist autocrat cast in the mould of Venezuela’s Hugo Chavez.

    As someone said earlier, it is a sad day when we have to rely on the Chinese government for sanity at the international level, as we can no longer rely on western leaders to do the sensible thing regarding climate.

  87. It seems to me that “ecocide” is going to be very difficult to define in the complex of soiological/economic/environmental systems and finding those responsible even harder. For example: Is an African farmer cutting down trees to increase his acreage more of an ecoterrorist than some high carbon lawyers I can think of?

    I would suggest that there is a great and just leveller here: that would be to define ecoterrorists (the perpetrators of “ecocide”) as those with incomes more than half that of Polly Higgins.

    JM

  88. ‘Fossil fuels, mining, agriculture, chemicals and forestry’. Rather generous of her to exclude animal husbandry. At least we can catch fish, eat meat and wear skins, but only hunt them with bone tools and eat them raw in a natural unheated cave.

  89. DirkH (10:36:50) :
    “No no, you have it wrong. In response to the London attacks she decided to make the world a better place by going into eco-retail!

    After that business faltered, she decided in 2008 to save the planet by becoming a Desertec mouthpiece (and promoting funny law initiatives).”

    OH NO – her business failed?!?

    Where am I gonna go now to get my “eco certified wool mobile phone holder”… or my “organic looking eco mats”… or most importantly, my “handmade Cartapesta Roses” (or, eerrrr… clumps of grey rags)?

    Without Polly’s high-quality merchandise, the world will surely end!

    http://www.laluminata.co.uk/magazine/2008/05/the-lazy-environmentalist/

  90. … and following on from my last comment perhaps “carbon-capping” might be the appropriate punishment…

    JM

  91. First of all, what wars have been caused by resource depletion? Many countries have precious little in the way of natural resources, yet have never had need to start a war. The premise of ‘ecocide’ as a crime against peace is unsupportable.

    Secondly, all life consumes ‘resources’ to the best of its ability. Humans are the only life form that actually considers other species when it consumes. All life changes its environment. Life can not exist unless it takes a ‘resource’ from the environment and gives off something different to the environment. In essence, all life destroys (changes) its environment. This is not a sin. It is essential for life to exist.

    There is nothing in nature that objectively determines the amount of a resource each species can consume and what it must or must not give off. Each life form ‘lives’ as much as it possibly can.

    Today’s environmentalists are basically arguing that nature’s way of doing things is wrong. They argue that consuming and polluting is a crime against the planet. In essence, they are arguing that ‘life’ is a crime against the planet. Of course, they claim that it is only human life that is ‘destroying’ the environment, but that is irrational. All life does the exact same thing, to one degree or another.

    The bottom line is that they have no logical foundation for their argument. It is completely subjective, with the ultimate goal of subjecting all creation to their whims. It is frightening!

  92. Here’s Potty Pol sharing a platform with George Monbiot. It’s called (without any apparent irony) “Voices From The Climate Bottom”.

  93. Every painter has known for ages that Green + Red = Brown, and you get the right idea no matter whether that colour makes you think of a certain German Socialist Party or of faeces…

  94. Rik Gheysens (10:59:12) :

    Let them first put their own house in order!
    – They prohibited environmentally safe incandescent lamps and introduced energy-saving fluorescent lamps that contain mercury and spread dangerous UV light;

    I would like to know what nasties are used in CFLs as phosphors. It used to be heavy metal compounds in flourescent lighting; maybe it still is. Even more toxic then?

  95. “The extensive destruction, damage to or loss of ecosystem(s) of a given territory…”

    It doesn’t say how large the territory must be.

    “…whether by human agency or by other causes, to such an extent that peaceful enjoyment by the inhabitants of that territory has been severely diminished.”

    It doesn’t say “human inhabitants.” Just inhabitants. This could be even sillier than it looks.

    Speaking of silly, there are laws in the US against “plant molestation,” in case you blokes were planning to come here and do something weird.

  96. Well, I think they are close. Just a small matter of reinterpretation. The “eco” needs to stand for ECOnomics. We can then prosecute all those pushing for economic suicide via emissions trading. Works for me.

  97. Her tweets confirm the Desertec link:
    “As member of the supervisory board of Desertec Foundation, I’m in Munich to roll-out the Desertec Industrial Initiative #greenenergy #solar
    5:06 AM Jul 13th, 2009 via Ada ”

    I wonder whether Siemens or Munich Re are bothered to work together with socialist lawyers.

  98. Someone should make sure this thread gets sent to every member of parliament, congress, court, king, president, senator, or other high muckymuck, etc. throughout the known universe. Stomp this into the dust before it breeds.

  99. Stop the world, I want to get off.

    This batty bint is a Watermelon: green on the outside and red on the inside.

    It’s a sign of the times that instead of laughing her off, we wonder whether her crazy ideas might gain some traction. It’s about time some prominent politicians broke ranks and declared the AGW story the hoax that it is. There’s surely enough support for them amongst sane, common-sensical electors.

  100. Ecocide?
    What’s next?
    How about Legicide? – To be used against those that initiate, promote or vote for legislation that costs lives (especially in third world countries).
    Where to start? Bio-fuels, voting against loans for power stations…..

  101. If I plow a field, prepairing it for a crop, do I then disturb or destroy an ecosystem?

    Yes. So, no more dicots or monocots grown for food.

  102. Quite logical really, after all it was not so long ago that a UK judge accorded “being green” the same status as religion in the workplace. This just seems like a natural extension.

    Remember those who have poked fun or spoken out out against the doctrine in the previous comments to this article have already committed ecocide. Beware you can be traced.

  103. I had hoped that following Salem and the Spanish inquisition as two of the most embarrassing episodes in human history that we had evolved beyond which hunts but apparently not.

  104. It appears the ECO’s are spinning the rope that we will hang them with. Club of Rome ,WWF, etc., all conducting conspiracy crimes against humanity. They will all be judged by their own creations. Two more years to the end of the old ways and the beginning of the next age. “The net now covers the world.”

  105. Seems rather backwards to me. From the framing of it, wouldn’t wind power companies be the first to go? And I think it could even be applied to prosecute WWF for some of its less then stellar projects, like the dingy Brazilian rain forest project of buying forest that didn’t suffer the threat of deforestation, so instead they allowed deforestation where the natives, I believe, actually protested.

    So maybe it’s a good law.

  106. Pamela Gray (10:32:43) : “It is important to consider that the dark ages were not our best response in wanting change.”

    How about the French Revolution, then? That occurred during the Age of Enlightenment. “it was the best of times, it was the worst of times . . .”

    That is why it is so important to have both the elderly (who want no change) and the young (who want everything to change). The moderation between those two ideas is what is generally called civilization. Either extreme will either cause stagnation or chaos.

    And, as to the location of the U.N., I would vote for Zimbabwe. Even though it would be rough on the population, the current management there would be a perfect match for the current crop of U.N. fundamentalists.

  107. Pamela Gray (09:08:37) :

    We should all encourage this to end up in a court of law.

    Then we’ll see how good the evidence really is.

    The only risk is finding an unbiased court and judge.

  108. “Vincent (10:58:51) :
    Why don’t all us sceptics join the Club of Rome? With enough of us as members we can effectively change it from within. Where do I get a membership form?”

    It’s by special invitation only. They meet in a men’s only sauna once every three months, usually asked to bring their own lube…and a copy of a little red book for taking notes on how to make the world a better place. Moral balancing, you know.

  109. “In the UK, this type is often referred to as being a ‘champagne socialist’. Tony Blair’s lawyer wife Cherie – possibly the most reviled woman in the country – is one of them.

    Protected from having to face the realities of the real world by their wealth and legal ability, their goofy ideas – if enacted – would cause mayhem. As a typical proponent of political correctness, she and her ilk deserve our utter contempt”

    She can be otherwise described as one of the “elite” and an intellectual in the Thomas Sowell mould, and thus not to be dismissed in a cavalier fashion. That she has already gained success in implementing Planetary Rights into the UN human rights arena shows she has influence.

    We ignore these people at our peril.

  110. Maybe all the mining and oil/gas industries (ie those that would be subject to this farce) should take a break for 6 months or so. The resulting chaos should put a stop to this nonsense.

  111. Peter S (12:53:17) :
    Who did she get to Copenhagen? Did she walk? Did she clean up her footprints before he walked home again?

  112. I wonder what the ‘carbon foot-print’ of trinket manufacture is? How many children are employed in this bright, new industry?
    The woman is mad, barmy, a true lunatic.

  113. Ask the 200,000 Haitians killed by hundreds of tons of rubble in their earthquake how they feel about Ecocide this week.

    “The DESERTEC Foundation is a charitable initiative of the Club of Rome” Polly Higgins can be seen listed as a board member on the press releases of DESERTEC.”

    Club of Rome. That says it all. All these people want is power over everybody, they already got all the money.

  114. Welcome to the early stages of the Orwellian society where everything is turned upside down. Be prepared – it’s coming and nothing will stop it, certainly not the majority of the public who are brain dead. Perhaps one day just as in THX1138, it will be illegal NOT to take drugs in order to placate the public from even contemplating eventually waking up to what’s happening.

  115. What about the extension in scope of the law which punishes with jail time those who cry Fire! in a crowded theater without any reason?

  116. Here’s a funny detail:
    The desertec homepage has a list of members of the supervisory board here, with Polly Higgins conspicuously missing:

    http://www.desertec.org/en/foundation/bodies-organs/supervisory-board/

    even though i found this page via a google search containing the name Polly Higgins. This indicates that they deleted her name very recently – the google index has not been updated by now.

    I tried with the wayback machine to do a compare but it timed out.
    BUT Polly’s name is still in the impressum at

    http://www.desertec.org/de/meta/impressum/

    (German law requires a non-private web site to have such an impressum, giving names and address of responsible people or companies just in case you need to sue them for libel or copyright infringement; makes suing much easier and more efficient, you know, we’re sticklers for efficiency)

    Behold the impressum:

    Sitz der Stiftung

    DESERTEC Foundation
    Veitstraße 42
    D-13507 Berlin
    Deutschland

    Geschäftsstelle

    DESERTEC Foundation
    Office Hamburg
    Ferdinandstraße 28 – 30
    D-20095 Hamburg
    Deutschland

    Tel: +49 (0)40 – 32 507 795
    Fax: +49 (0)3212 – 10 10 860

    Redaktion: Michael Straub

    Aufsichtsrat Dr. Gerhard Knies (Vorsitzender)
    Max Schön
    Polly Higgins
    Dr.-Ing. Hani El Nokrashy
    Dr. Oliver Steinmetz
    Dr. Gerry Wolff

    Vorstand Friedrich Führ
    Dr. Gerhard Timm

    Hello Polly!
    So it looks like she’s been quickly erased from the main list but still holds the job.

  117. Polly put the kettle on? Will be changed. The man on the Clapham Omnibus will be no more. Am I bothered? No. The ravings of pests like Polly are best ignored or should we ban pesticides?

  118. “Dave F (09:39:45) :
    … Guess eating vegetarian violates the ecocide rules?”

    Dave F, in fact eating vegetarians violates a lot of rules.

    (couldn’t resist, sorry)

  119. “Ecocide is in essence the very antithesis of life,” says Higgins. “It leads to resource depletion, and where there is escalation of resource depletion, war comes chasing behind. Where such destruction arises out of the actions of mankind, ecocide can be regarded as a crime against peace.”

    I have heard of wars being fought over resources but never have I heard of a war being fought over depleted or non-existent resources.

  120. This strikes me as a businessman looking to expand his market. After all, suing people, business, organization, and governments (i.e. anybody with money) is what lawyers do. It is no less ethical than any other number of ways that lawyers shakedown society.

    The trick is getting a jury to agree. With the ways our kids have been feed propaganda, maybe the time is ripe. Of course if this strategy succeeds, the lawyers won’t have lights or computers due to the lack of CO2 producing power stations but what the hey.~

    Keep up the good work Anthony et al. It matters.

    Mike Ramsey

  121. Polly is crackers.

    A year ago I was lambasted in a an email group for the mere mention of Club of Rome and Agenda 21. They branded me as a conspiracy nut. And yet, those things exist, are well-funded (and how), and spew the most egregious fascism under a “green” banner.

    I am surprised that DESERTEC has such a strong German connection. I was under the impression that Germany had learned its lessons regarding fascism. I guess not. Doomed to repeat history, and a very awful history it is.

  122. Bravo, bravo I say. The Lefties are embracing the Death Penalty. Obvioisly all these degenerate murderers with life sentences are a waste of resources and a burden on the environment… Energy, food, pesticide, toilet paper, minerals, cotton, wool… All those little things it takes to keep a person alive in prison…. Leading to ecocide. It all ends. Law and order returns. Finally.

  123. I wonder if she:

    a) Drives a car made from mined materials;
    b) Eats food grown on farms;
    c) Drinks water processed through treatment plants using chemicals;
    d) Breathes out CO2 which is endangering the planet.

    Hmmm thought so… I see the Club of Rome still maintains the “Limits to Growth” was accurate. I am afraid we ran out of most minerals already then… not to mention the other alarmist predictions.

  124. Apparently “The radical idea would have a profound effect on industries blamed for widespread damage to the environment like fossil fuels, mining, agriculture, chemicals and forestry.”

    Just trying to picture a world without “fossil fuels, mining, agriculture, chemicals and forestry.”

    Nope – don’t like it.

  125. “Mike D. (17:36:42) :
    […]
    I am surprised that DESERTEC has such a strong German connection. I was under the impression that Germany had learned its lessons regarding fascism. I guess not. Doomed to repeat history, and a very awful history it is.

    Shall we have some fun with Google maps?

    looking for desertec in Hamburg, Germany:

    http://maps.google.com/maps/place?cid=2728742057330174680&q=desertec&hl=de&cd=1&cad=src:pplink&ei=rm7CS7iOFIuUsAaXnOCdDA

    Michael Straub Desertec
    Ferdinandstraße 28
    20095 Hamburg, Germany

    Now we do the same for Club Of Rome, in Hamburg:
    http://maps.google.com/maps/place?cid=6311897831259133708&q=club+Of+Rome&hl=de&cd=1&cad=src:pplink&ei=HW_CS8-yBpHesgaqj-GKDA

    Deutsche Gesellschaft Club of RomeAdresse:‎
    Ferdinandstraße 28
    20095 Hamburg, Germany

    They have bureaus in the same house. These are, i think, 7 story high office buildings.

    So they probably say hello to each other when they meet in the lift.

  126. @Allan M (13:09:29) :

    Rik Gheysens (10:59:12) :

    Let them first put their own house in order!
    – They prohibited environmentally safe incandescent lamps and introduced energy-saving fluorescent lamps that contain mercury and spread dangerous UV light;

    I would like to know what nasties are used in CFLs as phosphors. It used to be heavy metal compounds in flourescent lighting; maybe it still is. Even more toxic then?

    – – – – – – –

    The “nasties” are not in the phosphors, at least not when the lamp was manufactured. Virtually all fluorescent lamps, including CFL’s contain mercury in the form of vapor, necessary to produce the arc to generate light (visible & UV). With age and operation, much of the mercury vapor will deposit onto the phosphors. This is why the efficacy of a fluorescent lamp will decrease with the number of hours of operation. If you examine a used or burned out fluorescent lamp, you will notice a darkening of the phosphors, this is a combination of tungsten deposits from the filaments (not all types have filaments, some are cold cathode) and to some extent mercury, although the darkening due to tungsten is much more pronounced.

  127. Planetary rights?

    If the planet indeed has a say, then it has made abundantly clear that it has no problem with us using the resources held therein, otherwise it would have made a better job of hiding them. ;-)

    DaveE.

  128. The car is on fire, and there’s no driver at the wheel
    And the sewers are all muddied with a thousand lonely suicides
    And a dark wind blows

    The government is corrupt
    And we’re on so many drugs
    With the radio on and the curtains drawn

    We’re trapped in the belly of this horrible machine
    And the machine is bleeding to death

    The sun has fallen down
    And the billboards are all leering
    And the flags are all dead at the top of their poles

    It went like this:

    The buildings tumbled in on themselves
    Mothers clutching babies
    Picked through the rubble
    And pulled out their hair

    The skyline was beautiful on fire
    All twisted metal stretching upwards
    Everything washed in a thin orange haze

    I said, “Kiss me, you’re beautiful –
    These are truly the last days”

    You grabbed my hand
    And we fell into it
    Like a daydream
    Or a fever

    We woke up one morning and fell a little further down
    For sure it’s the valley of death

    I open up my wallet
    And it’s full of blood

  129. Let me show again the members of desertec’s supervisory board from their impressum:
    Redaktion: Michael Straub

    Aufsichtsrat Dr. Gerhard Knies (Vorsitzender)
    Max Schön
    Polly Higgins
    Dr.-Ing. Hani El Nokrashy
    Dr. Oliver Steinmetz
    Dr. Gerry Wolff

    Vorstand Friedrich Führ
    Dr. Gerhard Timm

    Our friends at the Club Of Rome Deutschland – in the same building – have website as well; here’s the list of presidents:

    http://www.clubofrome.de/organisation/index.html

    Mitglieder des Präsidiums:
    Max Schön (Präsident)
    Frithjof Finkbeiner (stellv. Präsident)
    Uwe Möller (Schatzmeister)
    Fabian Brandt
    Dr. Christian Berg
    Ehrenvorsitz:
    Prof. Dr.-Ing. Michael F. Jischa, TU Clausthal

    So the president of CoR Deutschland is also a member of the supervisory board of desertec.

  130. Caught with her hand in the till, Polly calls for the death sentence on all who disaprove of thieves. Raw desperation. These loons have to attack, too many are laughing at them already. All we have to do is stay calm and hold up the mirror. For in every polished surface these people see the one they hate. 2010 is a good year. JRR Canada.

  131. “The extensive destruction, damage to or loss of ecosystem(s) of a given territory, whether by human agency or by other causes, to such an extent that peaceful enjoyment by the inhabitants of that territory has been severely diminished.”

    OK. Every national park in southern Africa removed the human beings who lived there in order to create the faux ‘wilderness’ that urban TV nature lovers and globe-trotting ‘eco-tourists’ believe is the ‘natural’ world.

    Its not. Its a big zoo with a manipulated ecosystem that lacks its keystone natural species.

    I chose Africa because human ancestors were part of that natural ecosystem for the longest. Same thing for Yellowstone on a shorter time frame. The “peaceful enjoyment by [those] inhabitants of that territory has been severely diminished.”

    So….. unless we return hunter-gatherers to those park ecosystems, and let them hunt and gatherer and burn, it is clear that all national park creators and managers should be sentenced to some suitable Green Gulag with the other ecocide baddies.

    The Wartermelon’s view of ‘nature’ is soooo convenient to their agenda!

    Is it any wonder that 1984 was set in the UK, and the BBC, CRU, Polly and Prince Charles are from there? Too bad Monty Python is gone. They could have done wonders with this proposed inquisition.

  132. “JRR Canada (18:47:11) :

    Caught with her hand in the till, Polly calls for the death sentence on all who disaprove of thieves.[…]”

    She didn’t say death sentence. I think small fries like us will be slapped with a fine the first time we dispute catastrophic AGW, 3 months communal work the second time and indefinite stay in a mental institution the third time.

    Remember, they don’t mean it bad.

  133. I suppose a ‘return to nature’ activist could claim that any large-scale cultivation of domestic plants for human use was an eocidal mass distruction of a sacred pre-existing native eco-system. I hope everyone sees the potential folly of this concept.

  134. So she wants to save the planet from us so that our Sun can have it in ~5 billion years time? That’s a great idea.

    Yeah right!

  135. “Al Gored (19:17:08) :

    Is it any wonder that 1984 was set in the UK, and the BBC, CRU, Polly and Prince Charles are from there? Too bad Monty Python is gone. They could have done wonders with this proposed inquisition.”

    Reminds my of a late blogger mate of mine who stated that Communism failed in Russia but would have worked in the UK. I tend to agree with him.

    I can see where this sort of insanity will lead. I think there will be a massive political backlash in the UK soon.

  136. “The extensive destruction, damage to or loss of ecosystem(s) of a given territory, whether by human agency or by other causes, to such an extent that peaceful enjoyment by the inhabitants of that territory has been severely diminished.”

    Where on Earth is she talking about? I’d argue that since there is no “peaceful enjoyment” by the [non human] inhabitants of that territory in the first place, it is not possible to “severely diminish” it.

  137. How do you plead Vesuvius, Pinatubo & Krakatoa, for the horrendous crime of ‘Ecocide’ & crimes against ‘Peace’?

    Guilty your Honor…

    So you plead guilty do you!…..you will be sentenced to…you will be sentenced to um…er…sentenced…to….er..um….er…er….er….

  138. http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2010/04/09/lawrence-solomon-the-new-climate-game.aspx

    As made clear in an 84-page Minority Staff report produced in February by the United States Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works, criminal charges will be aggressively pursued if the chief force behind the report, Senator James Inhofe, finds himself once again a Senator in the majority after the November elections in the U.S.
    ===

    Please vote for Senator James Inhofe, he is the only guy willing to investigate and prosecute climate fraudsters like Al Gore.

  139. “Freedom to Healthy & Clean Environment” – From Polly’s Econut site.

    Hmmm!. Dictatorships do not have a good record, environment-wise.

  140. http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=5978

    “A UN judge has suggested that Pope Benedict XVI should be tried before the International Criminal Court for “crimes against humanity.””

    I knew I had seen some other craziness involving the UN and crimes against humanity this week. Seems the UN understands the route to power for itself. Snatch up anyone you can tag with the ‘crimes against humanity’ label.

  141. DESERTEC is very openly an initiative of the Club of Rome.
    From http://www.desertec.org/fileadmin/downloads/press/press_release_en_08.pdf
    Michael.Straub AT ClubOfRome.de

    Head of the Supervisory Board is Dr. Gerhard Knies; former President of the CoR.

    The nice thing about the CoR is that they are arrogant beyond reason. They don’t attempt to hide such associations or their malice towards humanity. They believe that they are above the usual rules of society.

  142. Forgive me if somebody else has mentioned this – too many comments to work through, but …

    Polly is a Director of a Club of Rome “initiative” to produce energy for Europe from the deserts in North Africa and the Middle East (no mention of getting permission from the inhabitants of those regions).

    The initiative is called DESERTEC.

    Presumably this energy will be generated from massive arrays of solar panels.

    Now, as I understand it (and I am looking for clarification here), solar arrays not only absorb energy from the sun, but they also reflect energy back into the atmosphere. If the amount of energy reflected is greater than the energy reflected by the earth, will that exacerbate the greenhouse effect?

  143. DirkH: I suspect that the Hamburg address is Michael Straub’s. He provides a mobile phone number as Desertec-Marketing contact, but there’s a landline listed for the Club of Rome.

    The official address http://www.clubofrome.org/eng/national_associations/ is associated with (Matthias) Max Schön elsewhere in Hamburg, but the phone number given is the same as for the CoR.

  144. The repositioning has begun, global warming gave way to climate change, climate change gives way to ecocide.

  145. There’s one heck of a difference between chopping down great swathes of equatorial forest, which does destroy species, and ‘being a climate denier’ which most certainly does not.

    I would be most interested in seeing the arguments presented to a judge by this UK lawyer, which show PROOF that climate denier status murders species.

    1. The first assumption of this is that climate changing with all of the opinion that climate change is bad will not destroy species, whilst climate changing in the presence of climate deniers will. I remain 100% confident that I can transmit ESP signals to millions of species around the world telling them to ROLL DOWN AND DIE………since clearly they won’t be dying in the absence of me doing that. Seems to me that climate deniers could do the world great good by sending ESP signals to Al Qa’ida to get them all to roll down dead tomorrow morning!!
    2. The second assumption is that climate change is something new. I am sure we will bring witnesses to demonstrate that multiple extinctions occurred on this planet without humans taking part at times of rapid climate change.
    3. The third assumption is that dangerous climate change is occurring currently. It would not be hard to assemble data comprising of:
    i. Sea ice oscillations.
    ii. Rural temperature trends.
    iii. UHI temperature trends.

    to show that temperatures are not increasing currently, nor is melting ice about to flood the world, nor are temperature records reliable.

    One could go on.

    What this story shows is the dangers of lawyers thinking that lawyering is more important than science.

    Lawyers glorify winning arguments from a weak position. It’s how they earn their reputation.

    Scientists glorify reaching the right conclusion through measuring the right things and asking the right questions.

    Oh but this lawyer would learn some science……….

  146. I’ve used “Club of Rome” as a 100% accurate indicator of lunacy ever since “The Limits to Growth” by Meadows et.al. was pushed by them in the 1970s. They used computer models to predict that we would run out of everything due to exponential growth and that we were destroying the planet (sound familiar?)…

    Then when caught in the gross error decided it was a ‘projection’ not a prediction… (“run out of natural gas by 1980” is what I would call a prediction and that’s what was in the book.)

    These folks are ALWAYS 100% spectacularly wrong.

    FWIW, I have seen at least one claim that they were tied up in the initiation of the AGW fantasy…

    So my advice: When you see “Club of Rome” attached to anything, assume it is 100% wrong and bogus. Then grab your wallet and run…

    Richard111 (09:35:36) :
    China has just spent £41.5 billion on the military.
    The UK sent China £170 million in aid this year.
    There is madness in the world.

    You have got to be kidding, right? The (headed to bankruptcy) UK is sending pounds to the world economic / manufacturing juggernaut that is dominating world trade? For “aid”?

    OK, I want you to get your water tested. Soon. Somebody is putting “funny stuff” in it. That’s the only rational explanation…

  147. “Bernd Felsche (00:35:48) :

    DirkH: I suspect that the Hamburg address is Michael Straub’s. He provides a mobile phone number as Desertec-Marketing contact, but there’s a landline listed for the Club of Rome.

    The official address http://www.clubofrome.org/eng/national_associations/ is associated with (Matthias) Max Schön elsewhere in Hamburg, but the phone number given is the same as for the CoR.”

    No, see my comments above, Straub and Schoen are both in Ferdinandstr. 28 according to google and the websites of the respective organisations.

  148. “Bernd Felsche (00:09:14) :

    DESERTEC is very openly an initiative of the Club of Rome.”

    Yes, they are not ashamed, but when desertec was described in all the news magazines in Summer last year, the CoR connection got lost, they only talked about Siemens and Munich Re behind it, so for me it was something new.

    Maybe the german journos just don’t know what the CoR is – probably too young to remember the Limits To Growth and the Malthusian ideology behind it; or they are too much died-in-the-Wool german Malthusians to still see Malthusianism when it crawls up their nostrils so they don’t report it (automatically assuming that the CoR are benign; that would be the typical german fallacy and that’s the way to get at their wallets.).

  149. E. M. I’m pretty sure we’re sending “aid” as well…. to “help” them transition to carbon neutral… Hillary took a nice big posterboard check for 100B to Copenhagen. Well, first, we borrowed it from China, then we gave it back to them as aid.

  150. I don’t hold any brief for daft Polly, but I can’t actually find any statement in her own words which supports prosecution of climate change ‘denialists’. The Guardian article itself doesn’t explicitly attribute this view to her, and on a somewhat desultory browse of her blog and website I can’t find it there either. Maybe she has expressed some such views somewhere, in which case by all means hang her and flog her, but climate skeptics should be the first people to demand clear evidence for any accusations.

  151. Something interesting is happening in Névian (France).
    For the first time in the French law, a judge said that the installation of a large wind farm, overlooking a vineyard, is for the owners an abnormal disturbance of neighborhood by the degradation of the landscape, by the sound pollution and by the resulting depreciation of land. In this case, he recognized the abnormal disturbance of neighborhood and ordered the “Compagnie du Vent”(the firm that installed the wind turbines) the demolition of four turbines and to pay the amount of around 500 000 euros for damages of belongings and for the estimated reduction of property value.
    The verdict of the “Tribunal de Grande Instance” of Montpellier, is dated February 4, 2010, but has recently been known.

    The given amount has to be paid, even if the company will take its case to a higher court. “However, the demolition will only intervene if the Court of Appeal affirmed the decision of first instance.”
    http://eolien.info/documents/html/nevian.htm (French website!)

    The company speaks about a case of “general interest” and does not understand the decision.
    If “ecocide” or “a crime against peace”, should become generally accepted standard terms, these owners of the domain should to have accept all these modifications of the landscape.
    But the last word is not yet spoken! It is interesting to know what will be the decision by the Court of Appeal.

  152. So I’m assuming in good faith Polly Higgins will go after the main perpetrators of “ecocide” first:

    1) industrial agriculture and commercial housing development, which destroys “entire ecosystems”
    2) The US and other militaries, whose “carbon footprint” is off the charts
    3) carbonated drinks manufacturers such as Coca-Cola, whose products are clearly designed to increase atmospheric carbon
    4) Dentists and enthusiasts of nitrous oxide, whose dangerous pleasure is perhaps the world’s greatest “greenhouse gas”

    I’m assuming, in good faith, that Polly Higgins would not be pushing this initiative in order to gag the opposition, to force a political agenda on an unwilling public or to lend credence to a new debt-based economy using carbon dioxide trading.

    Right, Polly?

  153. The “Club of Rome” has been an institution involved in spreading news of ecodisaster and water shortages for along time. It’s not because of stupidity, but an idea that is known as the “New World Order”. Promote ideas to scare people into factions and global governance situations. That’s there “fellow traveler” agenda …..

  154. Hey, I say, “Come get me UK government”. You see how successful they were against the IRA, a group committed performing to acts of violence on UK soil. Besides seizing the opportunity to install cameras on big city streets to spy on THEIR OWN citizens, the UK failed to neutralize these few rogues, even when they knew where they lived and who they were.

    So I’m not at all afraid of this, but if you live in the UK you should be very very afraid, regardless of your view on Climate Change. The published plan is always a diversion for the real, more devious one.

    How would they propose to determine if someone was a climate denier?…Hmmm….Tap their phones and e-mails, trace purchases, monitor their movements, library books, and social networking profiles maybe?. You bet. And since they won’t know who is a denier until they do so, they’re going to have to start with EVERYONE.

    Mother England you Mother [snip]!

  155. Perhaps lil’ Ms. Polly could write a book about her struggles to secure undepleted of resources lebensraum for her folks.

  156. TerryS (10:07:31) :

    “extraction [of resources from the planet] leads to ecocide, which leads to resource depletion, and resource depletion leads to conflict.
    Thus, “ecocide” is equivalent to genocide.”

    Giving birth leads to children, which leads to adults, which leads to consuming resources, which leads to extraction of resources, which leads to ecocide etc.
    Thus giving birth is equivalent to genocide therefore everyone should be sterilised.

    REPLY:
    Terry, they already have that covered it is called spermicidal corn and the development was funded by the USDA. I am afraid this is not sarcasm http://www.organicconsumers.org/ge/biopharm32905.cfm

  157. Urederra (06:23:01) :

    Nobody expected the UN inquisition.

    I saw it coming 20 years ago. It was very obvious after the World Trade organization was formed and the UN/WTO “laws” were then “harmonized” with the laws of the EU, the USA and other countries. Who do you thing has been writing the 3000 page laws now being passed?

    Checkout the “Wildlands Project”

    The US almost passed a law giving the UN the right to remove americans from 2/3 of the US mainland and convert it back to wilderness or limited access areas.
    In the map green areas are normal use and red is completely off limits to any humans:

    Here is a bit of a write up about the bills: http://www.americanpolicy.org/prop/stealing.htm

    And more information:
    http://www.propertyrightsresearch.org/articles2/wildlands_project_and_un_convent.htm
    http://www.klamathbucketbrigade.org/YNTKwildlandsproject_table.htm

  158. Robert Kral (08:55:28) :

    George Orwell was right
    Unfortunately, Governments seem to use George Orwell’s 1984 as a ‘blueprint’ not the ‘warning’ it was intended to be.

  159. POLLICIDE: (n) noun – The tendency for truly stupid ideas to become Policy, unless sternly excised by common sense.

    Consequences often include, loss of public trust, contempt for policy makers, increased junket budgets, heightend public ire, more air travel.

    POLLICIDE (v) Verb – The action of proposing an astoundingly stupid policy, so destitute and moronic, the advocates political career is cut short, or vigorously and instantly terminated e.g. “She comitted Pollicide”

    Consequences include, Global Temperment Anomalous bastille stormings, complete loss at the polls, a reduction in junket budgets, reduced air travel.

  160. Not clear how someone so obviously deranged has gotten this much publicity. Looking at her ridiculous website “trees have rights too” we find that:
    By definition, pollution is the introduction of contaminants – be they synthetic or an excess of natural – into the environment that cause instability, disorder, harm or discomfort to physical systems and living organisms
    Now according to her ideology all living organisms have rights. This means that if a family of streptococci take up residence in ones leg then administration of antibiotics or the production of hypochlorite in responding neutrophils would result in “harm and discomfort” to the bacteria. OTOH, an untreated infection would result in either loss of a limb or the persons life. That’s just one example that occurred to me probably because I’m a doctor but WUWT readers have also indicated that should these “ecologic rights” become law then vegetarianism would be illegal and probably the only acceptable food would be sterile decaying seaweed.

    Why is it that those who go on the most about the interconnectedness of life and their “holistic” approach to things are the least able to see the ramifications of their proposed changes to a worlds ecology?

  161. I’m glad I’m not the only one that thought I was reading an epilogue to Orwell’s 1984 here. As my engineering mentor always “wrote” in red ink scratched through 4-10 sheets of paper from it’s vigorous application…

    N U T S !!!

  162. You know the old saying “It’s too late to work within the system, and too soon to shoot the bastards”? I think people are feeling pushed along that timeline.

  163. The last people to think like Ms Higgins et al were Reinhardt Heydrich and Adolf Eichman at Wannsee in 1941.

    Tony Blair said on UK TV last year that even if AGW is wrong we should still pursue the agenda.

  164. I say bring it on. It will be highly entertaining should this ever get to court for the AGW proponents to prove that damage to the environment has actually been caused by AGW

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