CEI’s Chris Horner asks WUWT readers for some help in locating “Phil Jones’s Aspirations”
So, I’m leafing through another 1,500 pages of emails dumped on me by NASA in an apparent attempt to forestall litigation we informed them was coming this week after the clock tolls on their requirement to comply with requests under the Freedom of Information Act (it’s complicated, so here’s the gist of what two of the requests were about; the third one is about NASA using taxpayer resources to produce content for and manage the third-party “global warming” activist operation RealClimate, which you will read about soon).
Near the end of the first of three large folders of documents I see a particular email thread between James Hansen and Phil Jones.
In Jones’ final reply at the top of the thread, there is some mildly interesting discussion of e.g., China temperatures, and then, after a little nattering about how those ocean temperature observations seem too cool for their tastes and so clearly the observations are wrong, Jones writes to Hansen, “As I think you might has said earlier, we aren’t doing a great job in measuring surface T[emperatures] in a consistent manner”.
But, before this and in the same email, Jones admits to Hansen, “I hope the Met Office prediction for 2015 in last week’s Science are correct!” [hyperlink to Met Office press release added]
He is referring to the prediction by the Met Office, in Science magazine’s August 10, 2007 issue, of accelerating “global warming” leading to record temperatures, beginning 2009 or so. The article (by Doug Smith et al.) is behind a paywall, but it declared an understanding, courtesy of a new modeling technique, that we will see at least five years claiming “warmest ever” by the year 2015.
It is possible that someone in Jones’ position hopes for record temperatures simply because their enterprise thrives on the global warming panic. But I was reminded of an earlier email of Jones’s, which I thought had made the rounds pre-CRUGate, asserting in response to a challenge that, yes, he does wish/want/need disruptive anthropogenic climate change to be true/real (the precise word choice eludes me), because it will cause society to straighten up and fly right in terms of its policies and lifestyles.
I cannot locate this email, either by web-searching or on the various East Anglia email sites. So, I appeal to readers: who can recall and produce a copy of that earlier Jones email?
I ask because together they do rather support the argument that the global warming alarmists, even if donning the vestments of “science”, remain ideological advocates. They want their Man-as-agent-of-doom theory to be true, they need it to be true. Such evidence would certainly color their claims, and the exposed fudging, lying, withholding and the rest of the nasty little bag of tricks that collectively amount to pushing an agenda. With a line of reasoning that goes do what I want or people die! In the name of “science”.
The irony here is that the same issue of Science published a letter [subscription required] by Robert Gitzen of the University of Missouri, titled “The Dangers of Advocacy in Science”.
Regardless, any help in tracking down this earlier Phil Jones email is appreciated.
Leif: Thank you. Not proposing a link and not suggesting one.
A week in the life of Self Named Climate Scientists before Kyoto 1997
The following email shows how conspiratorial and unethical these people are, they even made up the number of scientists who supported the “cause”
Of course “no one is going to check”.
“The delegates who we want to influence”
From: Joseph Alcamo
To: m.hulme Rob.Swart
Subject: Timing, Distribution of the Statement
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 18:52:33 0100
Reply-to:
Mike, Rob,
Sounds like you guys have been busy doing good things for the cause.
I would like to weigh in on two important questions —
Distribution for Endorsements —
I am very strongly in favor of as wide and rapid a distribution as
possible for endorsements. I think the only thing that counts is
numbers. The media is going to say “1000 scientists signed” or “1500
signed”. No one is going to check if it is 600 with PhDs versus 2000
without. They will mention the prominent ones, but that is a
different story.
Conclusion — Forget the screening, forget asking
them about their last publication (most will ignore you.) Get those
names!
Timing — I feel strongly that the week of 24 November is too late.
1. We wanted to announce the Statement in the period when there was
a sag in related news, but in the week before Kyoto we should expect
that we will have to crowd out many other articles about climate.
2. If the Statement comes out just a few days before Kyoto I am
afraid that the delegates who we want to influence will not have any
time to pay attention to it. We should give them a few weeks to hear
about it.
3. If Greenpeace is having an event the week before, we should have
it a week before them so that they and other NGOs can further spread
the word about the Statement. On the other hand, it wouldn’t be so
bad to release the Statement in the same week, but on a
diffeent day. The media might enjoy hearing the message from two
very different directions.
Conclusion — I suggest the week of 10 November, or the week of 17
November at the latest.
Mike — I have no organized email list that could begin to compete
with the list you can get from the Dutch. But I am still
willing to send you what I have, if you wish.
Best wishes,
Joe Alcamo
—————————————————-
Prof. Dr. Joseph Alcamo, Director
Center for Environmental Systems Research
University of Kassel
Kurt Wolters Strasse 3
D-34109 Kassel
Germany
Alright. Really stupid question here: We are having some earthquakes and
the sun has ground to a halt producing sun spots. Related perhaps somehow in some way?
—-
First of all, there is no such thing as a stupid question if honestly asked.
I’m not aware of any linkage between solar activity and earthquakes, and suppose it is simply coincidence. Earthquakes are the release of pent-up energy from the collision of tectonic plates along fault lines.
Interesting is that the Chilean earthquake impacted the earth’s revolution on its axis slightly, shortening a day by about 1 millisecond! Maybe this is a new crisis for the AGW crowd to attach to?
Oops, earth rotates on its axis and revolves around the sun!
Wow, ask and ye shall receive.
This site rocks.
And rocks the boat.
http://hillbuzz.org/2010/01/25/stunning-admission-uk-scientists-admit-they-make-up-data-for-political-reasons-to-support-church-of-global-warming/ – not a quotation from Jones, different scientist.
CRS, Dr.P.H. (05:46:21) :
“I’m not aware of any linkage between solar activity and earthquakes, ”
If there is no connection why were posters on here predicting more earthquakes over the last month or so?
But the science is proven isnt it? However Mother Nature would appear to be a republican and right now I cant foresee a time when that situation is going to change, especially when there is more ice in the Arctic and as it happens the Antarctic and with snow in Spain today (in March) Mum seems to be intent on making her point “I’m in charge and dont you Phil Jones forget it” this is my toy and I will do with it as I choose.
The hinterland foot soldiers will continue to march because politicians see a way of raising more taxes, its the politicians that need to be confronted not the Phil Jones of the World that is just a diversion, you may have noted that not one single politician in the UK has said OK games up no more wind turbines and until they do then Phil Jones will remain at best a sacrificial lamb of no particular merit, most likely early retired and then they will reconvene and move on, it does appear the George Orwell really did know what he was about and that is worrying.
Its like the young complaining that the old are sucking money out of the economy but they dont appear to have connected with the fact that if there were no old people then 45000 doctors in the UK would be made immediately redundant and big Pharma would never make money again.
We are all sucking from the same straw and long before the warmist predictions could come true if true we will have sucked our last drop of oil so the problem if caused by us will dissipate overnight.
Those wanting to promote the warmist agenda may be good with massaging figures but cant see the wood for the trees, if we keep using energy at the current rate and Co2 is the problem then it can never be any more than alarmist rhetoric, it is no more than the scientific equivalent of a price fixing ring, if it wasnt the climate it would be cement ad how glamorous is that the climate wins every time bring back Enron and Bernie Madoff at least they were really serious about making money out of nothing.
David Wells
Why is it that as soon as a ‘Boris’ says something everyone goes ‘off topic’?
We must be “Bored”.
Now.. let’s get back to ‘social networking’ and the psychology of psyentists who claim proofs for the psyence of AGW.
I contend that Jones, Mann, Pachauri, et al, are merely modern day Don Quixotes, Men of La Mancha (Al Gore is their Sancho Panza). They are on a great quest, dreaming the Impossible Dream, fighting Wind Mills at every turn, and hopelessly in love with they mysterious and enticing Aldonza/Dulcinea.
It’s a ‘generational’ thing. Anyone under 40 probably has no idea about what I’m talking about. The old folks know all too well. Forgive them dear WUWT fans, they know not what they’s doing to us; they’re merely on a great great great quest. Yes, they should all be locked in a deep dark prison celler and left to their own devices. They are ‘too far gone’ to be allowed to wander harmlessly among normal prople.
But, they mean well;-)
How about what Michael Mann wrote to Phil Jones about giving data:
“I would not give them *anything*. I would not respond or even acknowledge receipt of their emails. There is no reason to give them any data, in my opinion, and I think we do so at our own peril!”
source: http://www.tuxwerx.com/Climategate/mail/1076359809.txt
This is very damaging, especially the “we do so at our own peril”. They could be hiding something!
So, let’s assume that this “global warming” game is over. What else or what other idea would replace it?
A C Osborn (06:53:40) :
CRS, Dr.P.H. (05:46:21) :
“I’m not aware of any linkage between solar activity and earthquakes, ”
If there is no connection why were posters on here predicting more earthquakes over the last month or so?
—-
Don’t know, but there is no astrophysical explanation tying solar activity to earthquakes that I’ve ever heard of.
We are seeing the earth’s tectonic plates releasing stored-up energy. Heck, we even had an earthquake near my home in Aurora, Illinois USA a few weeks ago! It happens once in a while in this area.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see another Mt. Pinatubo-scale volcanic eruption occur in the next few years. THAT will slow down all this pesky global warming!
First of all, there is no such thing as a stupid question if honestly asked.
I’m not aware of any linkage between solar activity and earthquakes, and suppose it is simply coincidence. Earthquakes are the release of pent-up energy from the collision of tectonic plates along fault lines.
Interesting is that the Chilean earthquake impacted the earth’s revolution on its axis slightly, shortening a day by about 1 millisecond! Maybe this is a new crisis for the AGW crowd to attach to?
9032010
CRS, Dr.P.H. (05:47:13) :
Oops, earth rotates on its axis and revolves around the sun!
—————————
Thanks for your gentleness but my questions really do fall within the honest but stupid file. It’s just that the sun and the earth are two are liquids so wondered out loud. And when the sun is being affected by the the gravity of the planets….we’re not talking a ‘real time’ effect but one that builds up over time even Hundred or more years? I float no argument or thesis here but still, if you don’t mind me asking. Thx
I found yesterday the following new argument for scaring the people, while getting the so urgently needed funds to keep on with their current “life style”>
http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20100307/sc_mcclatchy/3444187
CRS, Dr.P.H. (07:51:03) : Do you know what the Ap index is?, well, profound variations in the GMF have something to do with movements in the magma.
See:
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/GandF.htm
“As you know, I’m not political. If anything, I would like to see the climate change happen, so the science could be proved right, regardless of the consequences. This isn’t being political, it is being selfish.”
This proves that Prof. Jones doesn’t understand what science is. Replace “science” with “working hypothesis” and his sentiment makes sense.
I heard that the moon has a tidal effect on land, with ‘earth-tide’ heights of around 300mm. So can anyone say what the sun’s earth-tidal effect is?
Having used harmonic drives in servo designs, I can visualise how sun/moon earth- tides could cause a peristaltic rotation of the liquid core. So, has there been a hypothesis that the combination of moon and sun earth-tides are the cause of the inner rotation of the liquid core of the planet, which in turn generates the magnetic field?
(And with regard to earthquakes, these regular moon/sun earth-tides might be beneficially keeping the tectonic plates in motion, and so stopping them from sticking together for too long and thus causing really massive movements.)
CRS, Dr.P.H. (07:51:03) : Also, the recent Chilean 8.8 richter earthquake, pobably related to a 370% decrease in the local magnetic field:
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/LFC13.htm
It shows that even if advocacy is OK,
what they want is lifestyle change,
they’re not interested in preventing global warming.
Still, we already knew this, because geo-engineering is so frowned upon.
Basically they want people to be a bit less consumerist, a bit more soft and huggable — PLEASE GO JOIN AN ASCETIC RELIGION.
Global cooling could just as easily fit their need for a big frightening consequence to force people to be better. Religion used to do this with threats of imaginary damnation. Now we make it “scientific” because that’s what people are willing to believe blindly in the modern age.
Davidmhoffer….. “bad spelling”
Dont worry about bad spelling… Thomas Jefferson and all the founding fathers couldn’t spell either. As for scientists ( I am one), I don’t really trust the ones that can spell real good! It means they spent too much time in lit. class when they could have been in science class.
Step right up, Boys! The paymaster is through the next door! We’ll ALL be able to retire in luxury, somewhere on the Mexican coast and live like. . . well like oil barons!
I just don’t know where I am going to spend my gazillions.
You don’t think we’ll run into Phil Jones or Mann or Hansen at Gstaadt or Monte Carlo or Cortina, do you? God, I’d hate that. It would be so embarrassing. . .
supercritical (08:43:41) :
I heard that the moon has a tidal effect on land, with ‘earth-tide’ heights of around 300mm. So can anyone say what the sun’s earth-tidal effect is?
Having used harmonic drives in servo designs, I can visualise how sun/moon earth- tides could cause a peristaltic rotation of the liquid core.>>
Here’s a link that does a pretty good job of explaining how the earth\d magnetic field is mosty likely generated. The article is pretty old so research had been done since then, but the explanation is clear and the guy answers his email.
http://mb-soft.com/public/tecto2.html
You need Leif or someone to answer the earth tide on sun question, but I would think it small. Gravitational force between two bodies is inversely proportional to the distance between them squared. So the moon raises a tide because the diameter of the earth is significant in comparison to the radius of the moon’s orbit and the result is water on the far side gets less force than water on the near side. Diameter of Sun (going from memory here) being about 1.5 million km and radius of earth orbit being 150 million km one would arrive at a small…but possibly interesting number.
Henry Galt (05:14:15)
I can sympathise with Margaret Thatcher’s actions for the time.
I very much doubt she foresaw the present situation.
My earlier post was to show that Phil Jones of CRU was very much
at the heart of things back then. The report linked below will
show Phil Jones could have had high level access to important
people in China through his contact with Maurice Strong.
Maurice Strong: The new guy in your future!
By Henry Lamb
January, 1997
….
Shortly after his selection as U.N. Secretary General, Kofi Annan told the Lehrer News Hour that Ingvar Carlsson and Shirdath Ramphal, co-chairs of the U.N.-funded Commission on Global Governance, would be among those asked to help him reform the sprawling, world-wide U.N. bureaucracy. His first choice, however, announced in the Washington Post on January 17, 1997, was none other than Maurice Strong, also a member of the Commission on Global Governance.
My emphasis. I am curious about the Commission on Global Governance.
Oh, as Hakin is just across the harbour from me, I waved. 🙂
supercritical (08:43:41) :
I heard that the moon has a tidal effect on land, with ‘earth-tide’ heights of around 300mm. So can anyone say what the sun’s earth-tidal effect is?
About a third of the Moon’s, so 100 mm.
davidmhoffer,
“Gravitational force between two bodies is inversely proportional to the distance between them squared.”
True, but the strength of tidal gravity is slightly more complicated. Tidal gravitational force is proportional to MR/d^3 where M is the mass of the source of the tidal force, R is the size of the body being influenced and d is the separation between the 2 bodies. As the d between the earth and moon is about 360 times less than that between earth and the sun, the sun’s tidal force has a smaller effect even though the sun’s mass is 3 * 10^9 times that of the moon.