Spot the science error

Guest post by Dr. Leif Svalgaard

The following abstract of a poster to be presented next month at the Fall Meeting of the American Geophysical Union caught my eye:

Session Title: GC11A. Diverse Views From Galileo’s Window: Solar Forcing of Climate Change Posters Chair: Willie Soon, Nicola Scafetta, Richard C Willson

ID# GC11A-0685: Dec 14 8:00 AM – 12:20 PM

Revised Assumptions and a Multidiscipline Approach to a Solar/Climate Connection

C. A. Perry (US Geological Survey, Lawrence, KS, USA).

Click to enlarge

Abstract:

The effect of solar variability on regional climate is examined using a sequence of physical connections between solar variability , Earth albedo, ocean temperatures, ocean currents (Ocean Conveyor Belt), and atmospheric patterns that affect precipitation and streamflow. The amount of solar energy reaching the Earth’s surface and its oceans is thought to be controlled through an interaction between Galactic

Cosmic Rays (GCRs), which are theorized to ionize the atmosphere and increase cloud formation. High (low) GCR flux may promote cloudiness (clear skies) and higher (lower) albedo at the same time that Total Solar Irradiance (TSI) is lowest (highest) in the solar cycle which in combination creates cooler (warmer) ocean temperature anomalies. These anomalies have been shown to affect atmospheric flow patterns and ultimately precipitation over the Midwestern United States. A study has identified a relation between geomagnetic index aa (GI-AA), and streamflow in the Mississippi River Basin for the period 1878-2004. The GI-AA was used as a proxy for GCRs. There appears to be a solar “fingerprint” that can be seen in hydroclimatic time series in other regions of the world, with each series having a unique lag time between the solar signal and the hydroclimatic response. A progression of increasing lag times can be spatially linked to the ocean conveyor belt, which could transport the solar signal over a time span of several decades. The lag times for any one region vary slightly and may be linked to the fluctuations in the velocity of the ocean conveyor belt.

A graph is attached to the abstract (as seen above):

http://www.leif.org/research/MissGeomagGraphBW.jpg

The poster seems to report on earlier work presented here:

http://ks.water.usgs.gov/waterdata/climate/

Where the same figure appears.

Now, what is wrong about this graph [and the conclusion, of course] ?

I’ll let you all find out what.

It is an example of three things:

  1. The desperate need for establishing a Sun-Climate [or is it weather, when on a decadal basis?] causing this kind of sloppy work (the graph contradicts the mechanism given for it)
  2. The lack of internal quality control by USGS
  3. The lack of quality control by the conveners of the AGU session.

UPDATE:

Thanks to all the readers who so generously [some gleefully] have pointed out my misinterpretation of the figure. This, of course, makes my initial assessment of the quality control moot and void, with an apology to those involved. Perhaps this shows how important a graph can be [cf. the impact of the Hockey Stick] and how important is clear labeling of what is shown.

UPDATE2:

click to enlarge

Since GCRs follow the the sunspot numbers and not the aa-index, the proper parameter to compare with would be the sunspot number. This also allows use of the streamflow data back to the beginning of the series in 1861. The following Figure shows the correlation with this parameter, providing a prediction of the flow to beyond 2040, should the flow indeed be correlated with the sunspot number 34 years earlier.

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November 2, 2009 6:51 am

Geoff Sharp (06:46:21) :
I hope your update includes an apology to the conveners of the AGU session.
And what is that to you?
This is what I submitted:
Perhaps it is time to update my post:
“Thanks to all the readers who so generously [some gleefully] have pointed out my misinterpretation of the figure. This, of course, makes my initial assessment of the quality control moot and void, with an apology to those involved. Perhaps this shows how important a graph can be [cf. the impact of the Hockey Stick] and how important is clear labeling of what is shown.”

Editor
November 2, 2009 7:04 am

Leif Svalgaard (06:05:00) :
Dave Middleton (04:42:17) :
I think the correlation is interesting. The major mistake on the graph is a lack of clear annotation regarding the time lag applied to the Geomagnetic Index.

As I have already pointed out, the correlation [with the 34-yr lag] provides a prediction of the flow 34 years into the future, as the aa-index for the past 34 years is known already. Since the strength of a theory must be judged by its predictions rather than by its fit with past data, there is the prospect of validation in the coming years.
I could imagine the same poster with a different title:
“A Prediction of the Flow of the Mississippi for the Next 34 Years” that would certainly generate a lot more interest and be less susceptible to the mistake I [admittedly] made, and perhaps also more skepticism as this is an extraordinary claim [imagine that the government should base maintenance of the levees upon it].

I don’t think you necessarily made a mistake. The paper’s abstract was not terribly clear and the attached graph wasn’t annotated very well.
One of the problems we geologists often encounter is that we never run out of “past data” to correlate. Personally, I wouldn’t try to “fine tune” levee maintenance based on any geological predictions… I’d use Murphy’s Law.

November 2, 2009 7:04 am

Leif Svalgaard (06:51:11) :
And what is that to you?
This is not a time for you to be bullish, I was offended by your remarks and regard Dr. Scafetta as a hard working scholar with honorable credentials and sound integrity. Try and be humble for once in your life.

November 2, 2009 7:47 am

Geoff Sharp (07:04:19) :
This is not a time for you to be bullish, I was offended by your remarks
It is offending that you suggested the possibility that I would not apologize.
REPLY: And it is offending to me that I might have to moderate yet another war of words between Leif and Geoff. Both of you, stand down. – Anthony

Aligner
November 2, 2009 7:48 am

Nigel Calder (04:42:11) :

Further to my previous post (since North America hasn’t woken up yet) let me paraphrase Svalgaard’s initial comment on Perry’s work to say that this is an example of Svalgaard’s own desperate need to refute Sun-Climate connections.
On WUWT in September, Svalgaard likened Henrik Svensmark to Al Gore. It amazes me that on a skeptical website this man is treated as some kind of guru, when he keeps dismissing the main scientific challenge to the CO2 story.

I profoundly disagree. What is his latest paper really all about? From what I’ve seen Leif sticks to objective, sound science and is equally sceptical of all hypotheses (including his own) as any scientist should be. If we had more like him and the politics, celebrity and media sensationalism that’s polluted modern science had been kept in check, this WEB site probably wouldn’t even exist!
We could get into who or what might have prevented that pollution or GG3 versus ‘creative’ thinking but that’s not appropriate in this thread. Science is either science or it isn’t. It’s fine (up to a point) for others to stray into pseudo-science for five minutes but expect any good scientist to play whack-a-mole with it to the nth degree each and every time.
The “main scientific challenge” is not “challenging the CO2 story” but establishing the truth whether we like it or not. Politics and social engineering is another matter.
IMHO there is an alarming gulf between the accessibility of real science and the exponential growth of sensationalism and pseudo-science all over the WEB. This is unhealthy; for a casual observer distinguishing one from the other is getting increasingly difficult and ‘science’ needs to do something about it. Sorting out the NSF and NASA media presence would be a good start. I have no idea how you deal with it across science as a whole but Leif’s presence here is refreshing and much appreciated.

anna v
November 2, 2009 7:49 am

When God created the swallow, a migrating bird that winters in Africa, He started to show him how to build his nest. He showed how to make small mud ballswith his tongue and how to gradually build up the nest; but He was interrupted just before reaching the point where He started to show the swallow how the nest should get covered and have a roof. The swallow, flexing its wings and ready to fly off swiftly after juicy flies and mosquitoes said “OK, OK, I know, I know” and flew away.
That is why swallows’ nests are only half built and they have to be under a roof or an outcropping. The swallow never had the patience to listen to the end of the demonstration.
Ever since a child I have often found myself in the swallow’s position, which is why my father would repeat the tale to me equally often.
Glimpsing the TRUTH is so exciting that a scientist has the tendency to say ” I know, I know” and jump to conclusions in order to rush to the next exciting manifestation of nature/fellow-scientists.
Ah well, it would all be the lovely game it should be, some you win, some you lose, if politicians had not high jacked the subject for their own insidious ends.
And I am saying that science should be a game,because, contrary to what the public thinks of science, it is extremely creative in the same way that writing a poem or a play is creative, and creativity needs room to dance in.

November 2, 2009 7:58 am

fred (06:48:46) :
If anybody wants to look at the data, it is here.
http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/nwisman/?site_no=07010000

Thanks, fred.
I put the data to use, see UPDATE 2 at the top of the thread.

Editor
November 2, 2009 8:24 am

Leif
Have you see this interview with Hathaway?
http://www.earthfiles.com/news.php?ID=1635&category=Science
“I am writing a paper – it’s on my computer as we speak (laughs) – basically saying that I made a big mistake – myself and Bob Wilson – when we wrote a paper in 2006, suggesting Solar Cycle 24 was going to be a huge cycle based on conditions at that time.”
“But there also were people back at that time saying otherwise. A group of colleagues led by Leif Svalgaard, Ph.D., were looking at the sun’s polar fields and saying even at that point, the sun’s polar fields were significantly weaker than they had been before and those scientists back then predicted it was going to be a small cycle.”
IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT THE SUN IS BOTH PECULIAR AND UNPREDICTABLE?
“Yeah, I’d buy that! (laughs) Most definitely!”

anna v
November 2, 2009 8:35 am

Leif Svalgaard (07:58:46) :
fred (06:48:46) :
If anybody wants to look at the data, it is here.
http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/nwisman/?site_no=07010000
Thanks, fred.
I put the data to use, see UPDATE 2 at the top of the thread.

The authors did not want to use the sunspot cycle, I suppose because they get a better fit with their “The GI-AA was used as a proxy for GCRs.”
Considering the LP effect maybe there is sense in their choice?

November 2, 2009 9:01 am

Just The Facts (08:24:34) :
Have you see this interview with Hathaway?
“those scientists back then predicted it was going to be a small cycle.”

Yes, David is a good scientist, and being wrong [as this thread attests to] is ok when you admit it.
anna v (08:35:42) :
The authors did not want to use the sunspot cycle, I suppose because they get a better fit with their “The GI-AA was used as a proxy for GCRs.”
That is, of course, cherry picking, especially since AA is a poor proxy for GCRs.
Considering the LP effect maybe there is sense in their choice?
We have other ways of calibrating the Sunspot number [e.g. http://www.leif.org/research/Napa%20Solar%20Cycle%2024.pdf ] and although there are indeed some corrections needed [20-40%], they are small enough that the basic cycle is not affected.

Kevin Kilty
November 2, 2009 9:16 am

Molon Labe (22:45:16) :
Isn’t it remarkable, though, that Mississippi flow rates appear to have an 11 year periodicity?

Interesting, yes, but not necessarily meaningful. I once noted a coincidence in period between air pressure fluctuations and 29 day lunar cycle. There is nothing to it, though, just coincidence. One needs not only the observation of coincident periods, but also a plausible mechanism by which it occurs, and then testable consequences of the model.

bill
November 2, 2009 9:20 am

If THC is causing the lag:
THC transit = 1600years (possible)
Assume transit distance is 40075km (circumference of earth) (Over estimate)
then in 34 years THC will have moved 851km
So TSI will have caused peak temp to trough temp in a distance of 141km
Assuming no mixing (impossible)
Then climate over the catchment are of Miss river is being affected by 141km of strangely heated ocean! HHHMMM!
Why do we not see these paths of hot/cold travelling in the ocean from satellites?
In my electronics oriented brain you can maintain a signal in a delay line (you pump in signal at one end and it eventually plops out the other only slightly distorted)
The ocean is not a delay line. It reacts more like a low pass filter. (you pump signal in at one end and the average drops out of the end).
TSI will warm the ocean above average on the peaks and allow it to cool on the troughs.
This simple simulation shows the effect
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/8022/simplelpf.jpg
When TSI (green) is high Temperature (VOUT) (blue) rises the instant tsi falls temperature begins to fall. There is no delay!

anna v
November 2, 2009 9:25 am

Now this is a question for weather men, but related to the relevance of the magnetic fields.
I have noticed here in Greece that if the rainclouds do not have a lot of electricity, i.e. not much thunder and lightening, the precipitation is poor. This can happen for a whole year, it is not that clouds do not come and we have a drought, it is the the clouds that come are not “pregnant” 🙂
Has there been a correlation found between magnetic fields, geo and sun, and the intensity of thunderstorms and precipitation?

Editor
November 2, 2009 9:56 am

So, who is betting on a midwest drought in 2040-44?
Should be some doozy flooding between here and there. N’awlins better get those levees upgraded, I think the rest of us would look dimly on paying for them twice…

November 2, 2009 10:27 am

anna v (09:25:24) :
Has there been a correlation found between magnetic fields, geo and sun, and the intensity of thunderstorms and precipitation?
Brian Tinsley thinks so: http://www.utdallas.edu/nsm/physics/faculty/tinsley.html

David L. Hagen
November 2, 2009 11:00 am

Leif
See Perry’s web page:

This mechanism is outlined in two papers (Perry, 2006) and (Perry, 2007), and is shown schematically below.

The 34 years comes from the correlation peak shown in Perry 2007 Fig. 6.
Perry 2007 Fig. 11 shows Perry’s physical interpretations of the lags in ocean circulation.
For a popular article on Perry’s work see:
Scientist Uncovers Long-term Weather Patterns Linked to Droughts and Floods

Seems that the path that the WOWs and COWs take is much longer than originally thought. This path may begin in the shallow ocean around Indonesia, travel west through the Indian Ocean to the southern tip of Africa where it bends back east to pass south of Austrailia. Once in the South Pacific Ocean it is thought to move slowly northward to the area of the North Pacific that affects Midwestern weather.)
He turned to the worldwide web to see if any other scientist had found a similar lag time. Indeed, there was one. A German oceanographer, studying the correlation between sea surface temperature in the Pacific and the salt water anomalies in the Atlantic Ocean came up with the same 34-year lag.

This correlation is not to “3”: cycles, but to the impact on clouds which affects climate which is delayed by the ocean circulation lag which influences weather and precipitation over the Mississippi river basin.

Glenn
November 2, 2009 11:08 am

Mike Lorrey (09:56:14) :
So, who is betting on a midwest drought in 2040-44?
“Should be some doozy flooding between here and there. N’awlins better get those levees upgraded, I think the rest of us would look dimly on paying for them twice…”
Might be closer to here than there, if the flood warnings in the news are any indication.
NWS map
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/
“The National Weather Service said Monday that water levels at the Meramec and Mississippi rivers in Missouri are above flood stage.”
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2009/11/02/NWS-warns-of-river-flooding-in-Missouri/UPI-84681257180383/
“A flood warning is in effect for counties along the Illinois River, according to the National Weather Service.
The flood stage at Peoria is 18 feet. At 9 a.m. Monday, the river stage was 19.9 feet with minor flooding occurring. The river will continue rising to near 21.1 feet by early Wednesday morning then begin falling.”
http://www.pjstar.com/homepage/x880799953/Flood-warning-in-effect

Tom O
November 2, 2009 11:18 am

As I understand it, the Mississippi basin receives it’s moisture from two distinctly different sources. The upper Miss and the western tributaries get most of their water from the Pacific, while the southern and eastern basin get much of their water from the GOM. Each of those sources are subject to different climatic conditions.
If this ‘solar/water flow’ correlation is inferring an influence in global rainfall, then all river flows should follow a similar pattern. Otherwise you would really need to filter out the Pacific rainfall patterns from the Gulf rainfall to figure out what might be driving such a correlation.

George E. Smith
November 2, 2009 11:25 am

Well if I read my horoscope (leo) I can convince myself that it really describes me. Funny thing is that I get the same feeling when I read the other 11 as well.
There is a whole filed of mathematics relating to the generation of data sets that seemt o be more correlated than chance would indicate.
That’s what I see when I look at those graphs, either the original one, and the 34 month delayed one.
What would be most interesting would be to see a continuous graph of the crosscorrelation of those two functions as a function of the time displacement (forwards and backwards.)
I can’t say that the causal link is in any way apparent. Cosmic ray events, after all, would seem to be independent of where the land masses are on the planet. So would you get a similar result for say the nile flow, or the Amazon ?
I’m sure one could capture a string of random noise especially one with a 1/f noise component, that would equally well correlate with either of these two graphs.

The Inconvenient Truth
November 2, 2009 11:26 am

Nigel Calder: On WUWT in September, Svalgaard likened Henrik Svensmark to Al Gore. It amazes me that on a skeptical website this man is treated as some kind of guru, when he keeps dismissing the main scientific challenge to the CO2 story.
Thanks Nigel. I appreciate this color to the oddly aggresive attack by Lief – it explains the motive. I find it very encouraging that Svensmark theories are so aggressively rejected by the existing scientific church – this is often a sure sign that he is on to something BIG ( I have seen this in many areas of Geophysics).
Since albedo is for sure a HUGE factor in Global Climate I suspect that Svensmark, even if proved wrong eventually, is at least looking in EXACTLY the right place for a new mechanism to explain things on a Global Scale. In layman’s terms he is hunting elephants while those who look at other factors (winds, ocean currents, CO2 and other trace gases etc. etc.) are clearly barking up a tree and most likely have been bitten by ants (all second order or third order effects).
A great scientist/engineer will always frame the question in the right way …”What could be BIG enough to have a significant effect on Global Climate?” Firstly one would suspect the source of the energy: the Sun. One might even suspect warmth from the planet interior as primary sources of heat. Secondly one would immediately suspect cloud cover, since, in the absence of large variations in teh Sun’s TSI, it is mind numbingly chlidlike obvious that cloud cover will have a primary first order effect (same level as TSI).
I find it highly amusing that there is so little research in Svensmark’s chosen place to hunt. (Why do scientists chose to examine their navels or their own backyards instead of looking at the BIG picture…no doubt it is a 9 to 5 job and more research funding that drives most people.)
Svensmark may be immortalized for slaying more than just an elephant – he may be remembered for slaying the CO2 man-made Global Warming Dragon, once and for all. It helps to have a theory that actually works when trying to shoot down a “consensus” and so far the skeptics have no alternative theory to displace the faulty “CO2 runs the show” hypothesis (other then to point out that obvioulsy CO2 has a minor effect).

anna v
November 2, 2009 11:41 am

Leif Svalgaard (10:27:33) :
Thanks for the reference.
One does not need galactic cosmic rays in particular if the every day available solar wind can have a strong effect. GCR would be another factor in the brew.
If one accepts this study, it indicates that precipitation is corelates to the magnetic fields better than to the sunspot cycle,no?

Craig T
November 2, 2009 11:44 am

I may be wrong here but I think the Mississippi is the most engineered river in the world. I’m not sure the flow rate is a good proxie for anything with all the dredging going on upstream, downstream, and on the tributaries. And the all the dams on the Mississippi for navagational purposes. No, No, the stream flow data is to human manipulated to mean much to me but I may be wrong.

lgl
November 2, 2009 11:51 am

Wrong again. Still the volcanoes. http://virakkraft.com/Mississippi-VEI.jpg

November 2, 2009 11:55 am

George E. Smith (11:25:24) :
That’s what I see when I look at those graphs, either the original one, and the 34 month delayed one.
34 YEARS, not months
anna v (11:41:01) :
GCR would be another factor in the brew.
If one accepts this study, it indicates that precipitation is correlates to the magnetic fields better than to the sunspot cycle,no?

Perry himself advocates GCRs which are correlated with sunspot number but much more waekly with aa-index, which in turn is mostly determined by solar wind speed and less by the magnetic field.
The Inconvenient Truth (11:26:55) :
I find it highly amusing that there is so little research in Svensmark’s chosen place to hunt.
Because most scientists don’t find much there to hunt for. Measurements of the albedo shows that it does not track the solar cycle and hence not GCRs.

November 2, 2009 12:01 pm

The Inconvenient Truth (11:26:55) : not only Svensmark but also UN ‘s FAO ORG, in the document cited by Dr. Gerhard Loebert (02:31:10) : .
Temperatures follow (with a time lag of course) LOD. That FAO curve perhaps in turn oscillates also.
As you pointed out, there is a tendency to watch fixedly ownself’s navel.
While everybody, as the fool in the famous Beatles’ song “The fool on the Hill” keep on singing:
But the fool on the hill,
Sees the sun going down,
And the eyes in his head,
See the world spinning ’round.