Last week we had a people in New Zealand saying we need edible pets. This week we have England’s “premier climatologist” saying we need to give up meat. You first, me Lord. However, this sort of tactic risks marginalization of his cause. Poll numbers are already falling. What’s really needed here is “steak watch”. Since as we’ve seen with many prominent people who give worldly advice, they often don’t follow it, we need some British paparazzi at restaurants and public banquets to see if Lord Stern follows his own advice. When in Japan, maybe someone can offer him the new Windows 7 Whopper to try. Why no “OSX Snow Leopard” Burger? – Anthony
From the London Times: Climate chief Lord Stern: give up meat to save the planet
by Robin Pagnamenta, Energy Editor
People will need to turn vegetarian if the world is to conquer climate change, according to a leading authority on global warming.
In an
interview with The Times, Lord Stern of Brentford said: “Meat is a wasteful use of water and creates a lot of greenhouse gases. It puts enormous pressure on the world’s resources. A vegetarian diet is better.”
Direct emissions of methane from cows and pigs is a significant source of greenhouse gases. Methane is 23 times more powerful than carbon dioxide as a global warming gas.
Lord Stern, the author of the influential 2006 Stern Review on the cost of tackling global warming, said that a successful deal at the Climate Change Conference in Copenhagen in December would lead to soaring costs for meat and other foods that generate large quantities of greenhouse gases.
He predicted that people’s attitudes would evolve until meat eating became unacceptable. “I think it’s important that people think about what they are doing and that includes what they are eating,” he said. “I am 61 now and attitudes towards drinking and driving have changed radically since I was a student. People change their notion of what is responsible. They will increasingly ask about the carbon content of their food.”
Lord Stern, a former chief economist of the World Bank and now I. G. Patel Professor of Economics at the London School of Economics, warned that British taxpayers would need to contribute about £3 billion a year by 2015 to help poor countries to cope with the inevitable impact of climate change.
He also issued a clear message to President Obama that he must attend the meeting in Copenhagen in person in order for an effective deal to be reached. US leadership, he said, was “desperately needed” to secure a deal.
Read the rest of the article at the London Times: Climate chief Lord Stern: give up meat to save the planet
Stefan. Yes, ‘in vitro’ meat is a distinct possibility. As I say, I think it simply will BE that there won’t be farmland left to grow crops for animal feed. That argument could even be made right now. I’m sure the future holds lots of surprises, but barring a major catastrophe, it isn’t going to be a surprise to find we’ve run out of farmland to feed a massive population! To me, population problems far outweigh any threat from climate.
Not sure about the carni/herbi mix. I once heard that we don’t have the teeth for a proper carnivore’s diet.
ShrNfr, Hitler wasn’t a vegetarian. Just another myth.
Thanks.
One has to consider consequences of policy and that includes the fact that some policies prevent other policies.
November 11, 1941 Hitler said, “One may regret living at a period when it’s impossible to form an idea of the shape the world of the future will assume. But there’s one thing I can predict to eaters of meat: the world of the future will be vegetarian.”
This has reached farther than craziness (crazy people are usually intelligent) to
foolishness (fools are usually naive, candid and gentle), and farther still to the most oligophrenic stupidity (a case better for the asylum and certainly not for Copenhagen).
LarryOldtimer. You haven’t thought that one through.
Where I live in the west country the only crops are grass and other crops which are only fit to feed to sheep and cattle. No sheep and cattle means no farmers. No farmers means the land rapidly reverts to scrub. Then the land supports nobody. Perhaps that is the ultimate objective.
Hi Anthony,
Here is analysis I did on water consumption and corn and beef in response to the same ridiculous water consumption claims by Discover Magazine. Basically, the greenies are inflating the lb. beef/ gal. water ration by a minimum of 4x.
Dear Editor,
Discover Magazine claims that it takes 108 gallons of water to produce 1 lb of corn. The actual amount is appears to be ~50% less.
Iowa is at the center of the corn belt. Iowa receives of average 19.39 in of rain during the corn growing season. The corn belt is characterized by very consistent rain fall during the growing season. 19.39 inches of rain equals 526K gallons of water per acre. Iowa yields 182 bushels per acre at 56 pounds per bushel = 10,192 lbs per acre. Doing the basic math yields 51 gallons of water being required per pound of corn during the growing season. A few inches of winter rain water contributes to soil moisture during the growing season. The winter water may boost the total corn water usage by 20% to 61 gallons per lb. Nebraska being drier than Iowa uses less water than this as their total average rainfall is annually is only 19 in (winter + growing season), and still yields 162 bushels per acre. Please note: these figures are only for non-irrigated farm land.
http://www.nebraskacorn.org/cornmerch/usdareports.htm (Source for Nebraska corn yield)
http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/NCH/NCH-40.html (Source for Iowa corn yield, rain fall and misc. comments on effects of rain fall)
So where did the author get their numbers from: apparently he or she has used rain fall from the extreme eastern edge of the corn belt (Ohio) where rain fall is highest and where they have to put tiles in the corn field to drain the fields and reduce excess moisture. They then included both growing season and 100% of off season rainfall and assumed no run off or evaporation. Given that Iowa is not a desert and rivers continue even during the growing season, one can safely assume that corn does not use 100% of the available water even during the growing season. However, my calculations although much lower than the inflated numbers of Discover Magazine still assume 100% of available water usage during the growing season.
Discover Magazine claims that it takes 1,857 gallons of water to produce 1 lb of meat.
Assume beef cattle at 1200 lbs dressed to 800lbs at 14 months of age. It takes ~5.9lbs of feed to yield one pound of cattle weight gain (Source Gray and Stallknecht 1988). If we use the Discover inflated number of 108 gallons of water for 1 lb of corn, we then get 8.85 lbs of corn = 1.5 lbs of beef cattle = 1 lbs of dressed beef = 955 gallons of water or 2x less than the Discover beef lb / gal claim. However, we already know that it does not take 108 gallons to grow a lb of corn (see above) – therefore, it takes ~ 451 gallons of water (of my likely inflated number) per lb of dressed beef that fed on Iowa corn or 4.1x less than the Discover claim.
(Source University of Minnesota, Department of Animal Science: 1200 lbs yields 800lbs of dressed meat at 14 months of age)
So where did the author get their numbers for beef from: I hazard a guess that the author used Kobe Beef as the standard as this brand of cattle is allowed to grow older to between 26 to 32 months of age. The $100/lb Kobe beef is not what is being served at McDonald’s or offered at Safeway.
I would appreciate seeing the author’s calculations.
All the best,
John McDonald
I love animals…
They taste great!
“Up to 20,000 delegates from 192 countries are due to attend the UN conference in the Danish capital.” (The Times article on Lord Stern’s interview)
That works out at an average of 100 delegates a country. No wonder there’s an awful lot of people who want the Copenhagen Conference to go ahead. Lots of wining and dining at somebody else’s expense. But meat will, of course, be off the menus.
Not OT but …: There have been famous vegetarians, who also loved dogs and pets, among these several who caused millions of deaths, as AH.
Why?, because vegeterianism, the same as other “isms” is usually the manifestation of fanaticism.
You people need to face up to some basic facts, Cows produce methane gas which is 23 TIMES MORE POWERFUL than CO2 as a greenhouse gas. You cannot deny it.
Personally I’m doing my part by eating them as fast as I can. I find that I cannot resist the urge to eat to eat some plants, but I feel guilty about it, plants remove CO2 from the atmosphere.
Controlling Climate Change is very simple; we just need to give people like Lord Stern absolute control over every portion of our life.
After all, you do want to “SAVE THE PLANET”?
Eric Hoffer, worked as migrant laborer and then a dock hand, before he wrote the classic “The True Believer” a study of mass movements.
From Wikipedia
“Hoffer argues that mass movements such as fascism and communism spread by promising a glorious future. To be successful, these mass movements need the adherents to be willing to sacrifice themselves and others for the future goals. (my emphasis)
To do so, mass movements need to devalue both the past and the present. Mass movements appeal to frustrated people who are dissatisfied with their current state, but are capable of a strong belief in the future. As well, mass movements appeal to people who want to escape a flawed self by creating an imaginary self and joining a collective whole.” (end quote)
The Climate Change fanatics fit this model to a tee.
“You must honor your intellectuals and reward them, but never, never give them power. They will try to make you love what you hate and hate what you love.” (Hoffer)
And I still plan to eat a Whopper when I’m in the mood.
The Prove It site would not accept my email address, kept saying it was invalid. I tracked it down to having a full stop in the bit before the @ur momisugly sign (name.surname@ur momisuglydomin.co.uk). I used my Hotmail address in the end and that worked fine.
Poor programming.
Lord Stern
NOT a climate scientist.
NOT any kind of scientist.
An economist – in other words an ‘expert’ in taxing people. (Although, in fairness, many other economists were quick to rubbish his ‘Report’.)
And apparently a vegetarian (if only ‘part time’)
Of course, Hitler & Himmler were also eco-fascist vegetarians.
For myself, I just enjoyed a nice juicy rare steak.
I haven’t eaten any meat for a month. But that is only because I can’t afford any. Once I come up with a job (which is difficult in New York City) I intend to wax carnivorous.
“But there’s one thing I can predict to eaters of meat: the world of the future will be vegetarian.” Hitler via Mike Lorrey
Logical but wrong, is my assertion. BTW, is there a move to rehabilitate Hitler? I keep hearing reasonable sounding quotes from him. What a strange world.
I don’t know about you guys but when I eat vegetarian dishes I tend to produce much more methane that a regular meal. Also, I need to eat more of it since it is generally low in calories and high in fibers.
Adolfo Giurfa (and maybe Mike Lorrey)
Hitler wasn’t a vegetarian. It doesn’t matter how many times you say it, it doesn’t make it any more true. Please desist, or I’ll start a rumour that the WTC was blown up by the CIA. It will become so popular that idiots who can’t do a little research before saying something will think it’s true!
That’s ironic, the internet seems to have eaten my post! I wonder if it will be regurgitated?
Anyway, I said:
Adolfo Giurfa (and maybe Mike Lorrey)
Hitler wasn’t a vegetarian. It doesn’t matter how many times you say it, it doesn’t make it any more true. Please desist, or I’ll start a rumour that the CIA blew up the WTC.
Barry, your prediction will fail as all predictions do that don’t (and can’t) see the future technological advances that will come. However, you can understand why your prediction will fail. All similar predictions in the past have failed.
We have vast expanses of real estate available. The Oceans are one area we have minimally developed. Others just don’t happen to be on this planet. However, we will eventually start transforming them starting with the Moon (it has water) and going forward.
Another thing so many of people seem to forget is this world has, and always will be, managed by one of nature’s premier rules. Survival of the fittest. Those who think they can live in harmony with some fantasy world, are simply fantasizing. Any society that tries it will sooner or later be conquered by those grounded in reality.
“I haven’t eaten any meat for a month. But that is only because I can’t afford any. “ Evan
Evan, buddy. Long, water only fasts cure many stubborn ailments and do wonders for the mind. Pythagoras did 40 day fasts and required his grad students to do them too. A prefast vegetarian diet is often recommended. I recommend Fasting: The Ultimate Diet by Dr. Allan Cott.
I consider fasting as survival of the fittest at the cellular level. Here is a good link too: http://www.gaianstudies.org/articles4.htm
If you need a steak though, let me know and I’ll send you a check after Nov 3.
Another moron in a position of responsibility.
I’m doing my part to rid the world of those evil cows. I eat them at every chance. Mostly steaks, and BBQ ribs and brisket, but also the occasional pot roast. I don’t eat hamburgers much anymore, although I did so years ago.
I urge everyone to follow my example.
p.s. here’s a link to a favorite BBQ house in Texas:
http://www.lulingcitymarket.com/
and another, this one in Austin, Texas:
http://www.saltlickbbq.com/
Richard M (13:58:51) :
He, nevertheless, was a green. See:
http://www.spunk.org/texts/places/germany/sp001630/peter.html