German Climate Adviser: "industrialized nations have already exceeded their [carbon] quotas" – Pay Up

Luboš Motl writes about the alarming opinion from the German Climate Adviser published in the Spiegel. If you’ve ever doubted that Climate Science has become politicized, this should end any doubt. – Anthony

By Luboš Motl

In his previous life, Hans Joachim Schellnhuber used to be a fairly good theoretical physicist. For example, he would solve the Schrödinger equation with an almost periodic potential in 1983. He has spent a year or so as a postdoc at KITP in Santa Barbara (1981-82).

But the times have changed. For a couple of years, he has been the director of the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research and the main German government’s climate protection adviser. What he has just said for Spiegel, in

Industrialized nations are facing CO2 insolvency (click),

is just breathtaking and it helps me to understand how crazy political movements such as the Nazis or communists could have so easily taken over a nation that is as sensible as Germany. A few rotten steps in the hierarchy is enough for a loon to get to the very top. He is proposing the creation of a CO2 budget for every person on the planet, regardless whether they live in Berlin or Beijing. Let us allow him to speak:

Humankind has to limit itself to emit only fixed amount of carbon into the atmosphere until 2050. […] Because the industrialized nations have already exceeded their quotas if you take into account past emissions. […] With the current output you see that Germany, the US and other industrialized nations have either already used up their permissible quota, or will do so within the next few years. […]

The industrialized nations are facing CO2 insolvency. This means that they have to notch up their efforts to reduce climate change, otherwise they will use up the CO2 budget actually designated to poorer countries and future generations.

Question: So industrialized nations would have to pay massive sums of money?

Yes. Up to €100 billion ($142 billion) annually. If the richest sixth of the world’s population were to pay this amount, each person would have to pay €100 per year. The West would give back part of the wealth it has taken from the South in the past centuries and be indebted to countries that are now amongst the poorest in the world. It would, however, have to be ensured that the poorer nations use the money for the proposes it is intended — namely to help them to develop a greener economy.

Of course, Schellnhuber is not the first hardcore nutcase of this kind who has been saying such things, pretending that he is oh so smart. Many of you may remember Richard Feynman’s popular book, Surely You’re Joking, Mr Feynman, where he also described a crazy “interdisciplinary” conference where a similar “thinker” has been proposing the same “reparations” paid to the poor countries, based on the same assumptions that Mr Schellnhuber has used.

In order for me to save some time, let me just copy Feynman’s entertaining description of the crazy conference he attended in the 1950s. The amount and basic types of pompous fools haven’t changed: they have just taken over many institutions that apparently include the German government:

There was a special dinner at some point, and the head of the theology place, a very nice, very Jewish man, gave a speech. It was a good speech, and he was a very good speaker, so while it sounds crazy now, when I’m telling about it, at that time his main idea sounded completely obvious and true. He talked about the big differences in the welfare of various countries, which cause jealousy, which leads to conflict, and now that we have atomic weapons, any war and we’re doomed, so therefore the right way out is to strive for peace by making sure there are no great differences from place to place, and since we have so much in the United States, we should give up nearly everything to the other countries until we’re all even. Everybody was listening to this, and we were all full of sacrificial feeling, and all thinking we ought to do this. But I came back to my senses on the way home.

The next day one of the guys in our group said, “I think that speech last night was so good that we should all endorse it, and it should be the summary of our conference.”

I started to say that the idea of distributing everything evenly is based on a theory that there’s only X amount of stuff in the world, that somehow we took it away from the poorer countries in the first place, and therefore we should give it back to them. But this theory doesn’t take into account the real reason for the differences between countries — that is, the development of new techniques for growing food, the development of machinery to grow food and to do other things, and the fact that all this machinery requires the concentration of capital. It isn’t the stuff, but the power to make the stuff, that is important. But I realize now that these people were not in science; they didn’t understand it. They didn’t understand technology; they didn’t understand their time.

The conference made me so nervous that a girl I knew in New York had to calm me down. “Look,” she said, “you’re shaking! You’ve gone absolutely nuts! Just take it easy, and don’t take it so seriously. Back away a minute and look at what it is.” So I thought about the conference, how crazy it was, and it wasn’t so bad. But if someone were to ask me to participate in something like that again, I’d shy away from it like mad — I mean zero! No! Absolutely not! And I still get invitations for this kind of thing today.

When it came time to evaluate the conference at the end, the others told how much they got out of it, how successful it was, and so on. When they asked me, I said, “This conference was worse than a Rorschach test: There’s a meaningless inkblot, and the others ask you what you think you see, but when you tell them, they start arguing with you!”

Even worse, at the end of the conference they were going to have another meeting, but this time the public would come, and the guy in charge of our group has the nerve to say that since we’ve worked out so much, there won’t be any time for public discussion, so we’ll just tell the public all the things we’ve worked out. My eyes bugged out: I didn’t think we had worked out a damn thing!

Finally, when we were discussing the question of whether we had developed a way of having a dialogue among people of different disciplines — our second basic “problem” — I said that I noticed something interesting. Each of us talked about what we thought the “ethics of equality” was, from our own point of view, without paying any attention to the other guy’s point of view. For example, the historian proposed that the way to understand ethical problems is to look historically at how they evolved and how they developed; the international lawyer suggested that the way to do it is to see how in fact people actually act in different situations and make their arrangements; the Jesuit priest was always referring to “the fragmentation of knowledge”; and I, as a scientist, proposed that we should isolate the problem in a way analogous to Galileo’s techniques for experiments; and so on. “So, in my opinion,” I said, “we had no dialogue at all. Instead, we had nothing but chaos!”

Of course I was attacked, from all around. “Don’t you think that order can come from chaos?”

“Uh, well, as a general principle, or…” I didn’t understand what to do with a question like “Can order come from chaos?” Yes, no, what of it?

There were a lot of fools at that conference — pompous fools — and pompous fools drive me up the wall. Ordinary fools are all right; you can talk to them, and try to help them out. But pompous fools — guys who are fools and are covering it all over and impressing people as to how wonderful they are with all this hocus pocus — THAT, I CANNOT STAND! An ordinary fool isn’t a faker; an honest fool is all right. But a dishonest fool is terrible! And that’s what I got at the conference, a bunch of pompous fools, and I got very upset. I’m not going to get upset like that again, so I won’t participate in interdisciplinary conferences any more.

Feynman’s book continues with a story involving the young rabbis whose main concern was whether electricity was fire.

I wonder how Feynman would feel if he had to be talking to not just a few nuts of this kind but e.g. to 2,500 similar nuts who would be moreover described by the media as good scientists, if not the best ones in the world. 😉

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Brian
September 7, 2009 5:02 am

I believe the comparison to Nazi Germany is because it was the highly qualified scientists at the time who gave backing and impetus to the racial purification agenda. It is an example of how far human beings can go because they are still fallen creatures – whereas we tend to assume that being qualified in the sciences makes one objective and maybe even just?
So in this case, it is a very capable physicist who is using his credentials to give impetus to an illogical process which has not yet reached Nazi levels but could none-the-less reek considerable havoc on a world scale.
The only problem with this analysis is to think that it is somehow unique to the Germans. After all, they got their theories on racial purification programs from the American scientific establishment.

Geo
September 7, 2009 5:13 am

What a great comfort it must be to leftists to have a one-size-fits-all answer to any problem that comes up. “The rich nations must send massive amounts of money to the poor countries.” Doesn’t matter what the issue is, that’s the answer. How lucky they are to be spared the necessity of thought by having an answer that always works!

Jack Simmons
September 7, 2009 5:17 am

FatBigot (00:17:35) :
Your comments got me to thinking.
I’ve often wondered what could be done to really help out Africa, and the rest of the undeveloped world. I mean other than getting rid of the nut cases currently running the show.
But assuming one could get a handle on the lack of security in Africa, what would be the first thing to try and get the economy going? Build some power plants? Who would have any use for them, as there are no appliances. Build roads? No cars or trucks.
But what if Africa could be the source of food for the rest of the world? Wouldn’t this spur investment in such things as roads, power plants, schools, etc?
Read this interesting bit of speculation.
Interesting article and much more sensible than handing money over to people like Mugabe.

Steven Hill
September 7, 2009 5:27 am

Hum, maybe the USA should just start charging for food the same as oil, let’s see how that works. No more free food shipments unless it offsets CO2.

September 7, 2009 5:30 am

Hi Anthony,
If you haddn’t mentioned the 52 spotless day streak we would be at 56 days now! The Watts Effect is REAL!!!
Love your site. Roger

Patrick Davis
September 7, 2009 5:32 am

If that is a picture of Hans Joachim Schellnhuber then it looks like he’s been sniffing…..CO2!

Atomic Hairdryer
September 7, 2009 5:44 am

Schellnhuber & Anderson are useful idiots. Even more useful when they start throwing big numbers around and put price tags on warming and how money will be conjured out of thin air. When people see how much this will cost them, they tend to become more sceptical and ask for a higher standard of proof.
But a group of Aftrican nations are ahead with calls for ‘compensation’ to top up existing aid-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8217449.stm
Ministers from 10 African countries have met in Ethiopia to try to agree a common position on climate change, months before a crucial UN meeting.
They were expected to renew demands for billions of dollars in compensation for Africa because of damage caused by global warming.

Which could be useful, if savvy governments treat the claim as any other compensation claim, ie make a case proving harm or loss and presenting your case in court. Hopefully a higher standard of proof would be required in court than in the media.
But then we don’t have savvy governments, we have governments that can see the revenue potential from arranging auctions of carbon permits & the tax and fine receipts that may follow, along with an expansion of bureaucracy to adminster everything. Plus there’s the green machine that will be advising on how all those billions should be invested in an environmentally friendly way, for a fee or percentage of course.
And most miraculously of all, these billions will be transfered in a carbon neutral way and will not increase consumption CO2 demands or production globally at all! These guys are almost as good at economics as they are at climate science.
As for Feynman, MS has done something vaguely useful and put up some of his lecture videos here-
http://research.microsoft.com/apps/tools/tuva/index.html
although you have to install Silverlight to watch them there.

Nogw
September 7, 2009 5:47 am

You see? It is not about reality, not to even mention about science experimental facts , but beliefs born in “esoteric circles”, where politicians are “initiated”, and which they are supposed to follow as a precondition to keep on belonging to that chosen elite. If they stop believing or following their masters´indications they inmediately stop being beneficiaries of people money (taxes).
There is no democratic elections but a “free” choosing among those few, previously designated. Want to test it?, just try to be independent.

Pierre Gosselin
September 7, 2009 5:50 am

I hate to tell you all this, but Schellnhuber is also Chancellor Angela Merkel’s closest advisor on climate issues and policy.
When it comes to the environment, conservative Angela Merkel is just as much of a nutjob as Schellnhuber and Ramstorf. The green kooks and green-media wield a tremendous amount of power here in Germany. The reult is high unemployment and overregulation.

Nogw
September 7, 2009 5:52 am

And this is why you hear not educated people saying: “If they, scientists and almost sages, say that there is ´global warming/climate change´ it is because IT IS TRUE OR MUST BE TRUE”
How do you call that?

Pierre Gosselin
September 7, 2009 5:54 am

Michael,
“rather dumb comparison”
Personally, I don’t think Lubos is at all exaggerating. One respectable politcian here once called the green movement here “eco-stalinism”. The greens are know as watermelons here; green on the outside, but completely red inside.

Frank K.
September 7, 2009 5:58 am

TonyB (01:21:26)
The solution? Vote your current government out of office! That’s what I plan to do here in the US in 2010 …

Nogw
September 7, 2009 6:02 am

I would suggest to make something like a list of simple scientific facts which oppose to the global warming/climate change mantra. As:
“Air does not keep warm as water, so atmosphere can not heat up indifinetely”
“Earth it is not within a closed glass box, it is open to space, so it cools off”
“Greenhouse is a closed room, it doesn´t work if open as our world”,etc.

pinkisbrain
September 7, 2009 6:15 am

how to top manns hockey stik:
http://www.wissenslogs.de/wblogs/blog/klimalounge/debatte/2009-07-10/2-grad-aquila
from schellnhubers propaganda minister rahmstorf…just look at the figure. isnt he funny?

Ron de Haan
September 7, 2009 6:51 am

Luboš Motl has written a perfect piece and I regard his information as a huge warning.
The science is officially politicized the moment scientist talk the same language as politicians.
The first time I have heard about the personal carbon foot prints and a personal card to register it (Carbon Ration Card) was during an interview with Mr. Milliband, a British Minister and former MP. http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-1021983/Every-adult-Britain-forced-carry-carbon-ration-cards-say-MPs.html
Today this theme is very much a live and extremely popular among all the loons with and without power all around the world.
Pelosi likes the idea http://www.climatedepot.com/a/956/EcoNanny-Pelosi-Every-aspect-of-our-lives-must-be-subjected-to-an-inventory, Obama likes the idea (as long it does not apply to him), Van Jones and his Radical Movement like the idea.
WWF, GreenPeace, Hanson, Gore and the entire UN like the idea.
It’s Cap&Trade on a consumer level and it will promote Global Governance with ultimate powers.
Not the wimpy political power where the kinds like Obama face embarrassment the moment their stature and smooth talk prove insufficient to push through Agenda’s of Change but real raw power. The power of Total Control. The kind of power that allows you to determine what and how much you can eat, when and how long you can use your crap house, the type of toilet paper and the number of sheets to wipe your ass, the amount of water to flush it and the type of light bulb you can use.
This is Marxism Unlimited.
An ideology based on semi science and propaganda.
The perfect rewrite of Animal Farm.
I personally regard the current (freak show) development as a huge threat to humanity and individual freedom and we should fight it for the same reasons we have engaged in the Second World War and the Cold War.
Also read this article that appeared in the Sun today:
http://www.sundayherald.com/oped/opinion/display.var.2520722.0.a_personal_carbon_budget_will_clip_our_wings.php
The War with the “Loons” has started.
Keep calling those Senators, send them a copy of Luboš’s article and ask them if they endorse or compromise on the Climate Bill of the “Loons” who intend to halt human civilization and become a “Loon” themselves or reject the AGW Hoax and join those who celebrate the benefits of our carbon economy that allows us to live in freedom and prosperity.
And if you have the chance, the time and the resources, join the March of 12 September to make clear that we don’t like the current Government policies.
Make them clear that we send out the “Loons” ASAP.
Start making lists, we will need them.

Thomas J. Arnold.
September 7, 2009 6:55 am

My German cousins have a positively frightening aptitude for staff work and organisation, something I’ve always admired (from a historical perspective).
However when they get a ‘bee’ in their collective ‘bonnets’, I shift uneasily in my seat.
Frau Merkel was an East German physicist and became a member of ‘Agitprop’, so the Lady knows all about feeding folk a line, I feel her governments’ hand in all of this – (no surprise there!).
I am uneasy about ‘Altruistic saving the world from AGW BS’ and especially when it starts to become state sponsored. Potsdam is famous for another stitch-up, one unfortunately unavoidable for war weary allies.
Now the teutonic roar is heard again, and under the yoke of EU diktat, we shall be made to Harken. Reading books by Solzhenitsyn made me wonder just what life was like under the communists…… and harsh reality beckons.

September 7, 2009 6:57 am

I just have to vent a bit at the Feynmann book. The guy still misses the point completely. The reason we have more stuff in the US is not because of machinery although that was a step.
Not- developing countries also have machinery. Europe has machinery, China has machinery, Cuba and Venezuela have machinery, CALIFORNIA has machinery. The reason we have more stuff in the US is that the US doesn’t (didn’t use to) have severe government oppression of people. The people made the damn machinery. They did it so they could make money. They did it because nobody came to their houses and told them they couldn’t put a factory on their land, nobody said you need to get a permit from the local politician. Nobody told the Wright brothers they couldn’t fly their planes because it might be unsafe or the engine might make pollution. Now the idiots are even going after lawn mowers.
Poverty is not the result of oppression it is the goal.

Bruckner8
September 7, 2009 7:05 am

FatBigot (00:17:35) :
The absurdity of the “everyone must have the same” argument is illustrated by the essential follow-up question: “what then?”

Although your poker-game scenario is colorful and cute, the answer to that is that the government will sanction the game. You’re assuming you’d be allowed to play freely, as you can today. But under the government controlled system, every activity is “brokered” to a tie (amongst the non-ruling class), and a “win” for the ruling class.

tarpon
September 7, 2009 7:05 am

It’s really clear, the old red is the new green. Just ask Van Jones, or watch his greatest hits.

JP
September 7, 2009 7:08 am

Perhaps Dr Schleinuber and his staff could compute thier portion of the CO2 conentrations(use of supercomputers, heating, autos, mail transport, staff, food, transportion to conferences, subsidized vacations, communications, subsidized benefits, etc…). The government then can deduct the amount of money from thier budgets and transfer that amount to some under developed nation. I’m not a betting man, but I can imagine that the Max Plank Institute would have to close down for several months and all of the employees would be on unpaid furlough (giving the employees subsidized benefits would just allow them to use more CO2). Dr Schlienuber and his staff could spend thier unemplyed time working as indentured servants in say Bangledesh.

wws
September 7, 2009 7:10 am

Seig Heil, GruppenFuhrer Schellnhuber.

Nogw
September 7, 2009 7:16 am

Johnny Honda (23:14:52) :
That’s why whole Germany is filled with this ugly windmills and solar panels. Literally billions of Euros are wasted with this.
…and were frozen by a real lack of natural gas, last winter, when russians, just to let them know who is in command, shut the pipe off.

Vincent
September 7, 2009 7:18 am

Peter,
“I grew up in a now defunct communist country, and I’m amazed how little has the world learned from this totally failed experience in organizing human societies.”
Yes, history repeats itself. Who would have thought that the US would get themselves into a new Vietnam? I am sure that the inevitable comparisons were mentioned beforehand, but they must have convinced themselves that this time it was “different”. In the same way, Western leaders are obviously using similar techniques to brainwash each other that this time the statist/command economy is different.
And I’m sure, that when the German army march into Poland next time, it will be for the “best of intentions”.

Samson
September 7, 2009 7:24 am

@Nogw
“…and were frozen by a real lack of natural gas, last winter, when russians, just to let them know who is in command, shut the pipe off.”
That was Ukraine not Germany. ~snip~

Nogw
September 7, 2009 7:26 am

Where ideology becomes exhalted war is lurking behind…