Quote of the week #17

Sometimes, seemingly innocuous posts can bring in some oddball commenters. Such is the case this week with a  post I did about a cloud (or lack thereof) spotted by former NWS Lead Forecaster for northern California, Jan Null.


That post brought out the chemtrailers, one of whom insisted that the “hole punch cloud” was not only a new phenonmenon (it isn’t) but made by (you guessed it) chemicals released from airplanes.

In the strictest sense, he’s right. It is caused by airplane exhaust:

This relatively rare occurenvce is the result of an aircraft flying through a  layer of high clouds that have precisely the right temperatre and moisture.  As the jet aircraft flies through the layer it contributes just enough additonal moisture and exhaust particles for the ice crystals in the cloud to grow large enough to fall out as ”fall streaks”.  This happens in a circular pattern around the path of the jet with a hole in the cloud layer being the result.

Jan Null

SF Weather Examiner

There’s nothing nefarious about it.

But when I didn’t allow the discussion of the ridiculous premise of chemtrails, that didn’t sit well.

Oh, and hey: If you people can’t handle the TRUTH about PICTURES >YOUYOU< can’t handle?!?!


That you have the freaking temerity to post BALD-FACED LIES from some JERK professing a ~new~ cloud formation, and thence declare that NOBODY may challenge that PROCLAMATION?


Science, you say?


Science which can’t =OR WILL NOT= be challenged?





I decided to leave it up as an example.

Ric Werme really said it all with this comment about SHOUTING IN ALL CAPS.

Thus our quote of the week:

Good science doesn’t need all-caps.

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August 30, 2009 6:10 pm

YAY!. Err, yay!

August 30, 2009 6:13 pm

Fantastic, a very good choice for the quote of the week.

August 30, 2009 6:22 pm

After fretting uselessly over mutltitudes of jet traffic over my area, I came to the conclusion that
1.) These are military flights in convoy playing out their publicly announced sheduled exercises.
2.) They burn the cheapest fuel they can get ($$ is tight with current budgets)
3.) The only detriment to me personally is they roil the astronomical seeing.
There are bigger concerns for me to occupy my consternation with. Military traffic overhead, while unusual, is a sign that our AirForce is at work as they should be. Thank God they have something to keep those birds up there with. It could be worse.

August 30, 2009 6:39 pm


August 30, 2009 6:42 pm

Hello Anthony
I’d like to place an order for 6 bottles of your finest snake oil, a jar of your sunspot causing pixie dust (on backorder I assume) and 10 barrels of your famous black gold, which I understand allows humans to easily control Earth’s temperature.
Would it be ok if I paid with check from the coal industry or my oil company credit card? Or do you only accept cash from the tobacco lobby?
Hopefully we will get the opportunity to share a couple bottles of cold snake oil someday…

August 30, 2009 6:42 pm

The commentor for the hole in the clouds is succumbing to hysteria.
I have checked out those allegations myself and I find them to be nonsensical and alarmist.

August 30, 2009 6:55 pm

(I figure caps are ok for the subjective. For Love 🙂

August 30, 2009 7:01 pm

Dear Mr Watts
Apologies in advance for this off topic post but would you advise of the impact factor of the publication Energy & Environment?

August 30, 2009 7:02 pm

Did he have his tin-foil hat adjusted properly?

Robert Wood
August 30, 2009 7:04 pm

rbateman, what shool did you go to? There is still a “c” in schedule, whether one pronounces it or not 🙂

a jones
August 30, 2009 7:32 pm

You live and learn.
I had no idea that the aircraft of the world were not only poisoning us all with their exhaust but adding specific chemicals to do this.
The last time I heard this one was some Scandinavian gentlemen who said the NOX of Concordes engine’s was going to do something nasty: I forget what exactly.
Well it was forty years ago.
Obviously I must pay more attention in future.
Kindest Regards

Potatoe Head
August 30, 2009 7:32 pm

Robert Wood – typos and other bad things sometimes happen 🙁
I went to school with Dan Quayle :=)

August 30, 2009 7:39 pm

Snake Oil seems contraindicated. I prefer my snakes on the noisy side, so I can hear them coming.

August 30, 2009 7:41 pm

Will there be a policy change on chemtrails if the Obama science team decides high altitude pollution will lower world temperature and create jobs?

August 30, 2009 7:52 pm

I thought “snake-oil clouds”, sorry, I mean “hole-punch cloud” were caused by black helicopters.

Gene Nemetz
August 30, 2009 7:56 pm

sorry for the OT but Tips & Notes is shut down right now :
Al Gore branching off in to health care :
He is quoting the Bible and saying we have a ‘moral duty’ to pass Obamacare. Al Gore, who has made $100 million in profit from global warming, is preaching to us about morality.

Klimate Kip
August 30, 2009 8:01 pm

I’m hoping this QOTW and our accompanying comments don’t invite a FLOOD of bizaare conspiracy theorists’ rants but…
Those coo-coo comments reminded me of a story that an aquaintance of mine kept trying to sell me: HAARP.
Whereas AGW might be “passive”..HAARP is fast-tracking our destruction…this is the ultimate in “man is destroying the planet” thinking.
As for me, I’m coo-coo for cocoa puffs!

August 30, 2009 8:02 pm

It’s a good move for Al. Look at all the money the church made off of Jesus.

Gene Nemetz
August 30, 2009 8:24 pm

sorry for another OT :
Maybe this is one step toward stopping William Connolley at Wikipedia, but as it is he will still have free reign for his political butchery :
,i>Wikipedia says it is testing a new method for curbing false information…

Gene Nemetz
August 30, 2009 8:25 pm

sorry for another OT :
Maybe this is one step toward stopping William Connolley at Wikipedia, but as it is he will still have free reign for his political butchery :
Wikipedia says it is testing a new method for curbing false information..

August 30, 2009 8:29 pm

Robert Wood (19:04:54) :
In spite of my lapse in typing, you obviously understood the word I was communicating.
Scheduler Bug: Where the processor receives two lookup tables referencing the same segment of a sequence, thereby locking up, as they are both waiting on each other.

August 30, 2009 8:37 pm

Is there a problem with the “Tips & Notes” page?
I am unable to leave a comment (the submit comment option is missing in IE7 and Firefox)
REPLY: try now

Dave Dodd
August 30, 2009 9:06 pm

rbateman (20:29:01) :
“Scheduler Bug: Where the processor receives two lookup tables referencing the same segment of a sequence, thereby locking up, as they are both waiting on each other.”
The nefarious “infinite loop” — that is why we have watchdog timers to generate an interrupt and kick C out of some of its more insane moments!
— Old hardware assembler programmer

Leon Brozyna
August 30, 2009 9:06 pm

Some really strange critters out there, beyond those weird Congress critters. Conspiracies everywhere — UFOs, catastrophic AGW, chemtrails, Yeti, secret contacts between aliens and governments. [And for the U.S. readers] – Sounds like something you could expect to see on a segment of Leno’s Jaywalking.

August 30, 2009 9:08 pm

But isn’t it a conspiracy theory to suggest scientists and politicians are working together to foist the false premise of man’s CO2 altering climate, and rigging the data and science to support their false premise, and shutting down dissenting scientists by witholding funding and grants. All with the the help of the MSM who report heavily on the alarmists predictions and proclaim the science is settled, not to mention the publishers of science journals who use peer review to censor scientists whose work contradicts the consensus.
And BTW, the Airforce issued a publication in 1996 called Weather as a Force Multiplier, Owning the Weather in 2025. Makes interesting reading. It was removed from their website after Katrina, but here is a link.
Wikipedia would have been a great tool for Winston in 1984, beats sending stuff down the memory hole and having to retype the entire history.

August 30, 2009 9:10 pm

So science discussions will look like this.
….. and CONSPIRICY THEORIES will look like THIS.
At a glance, “science” versus “GARBAGE” can be instantly recognized.
AGW…. See. all caps;-)

August 30, 2009 9:12 pm

I was somewhat dubious about snake oil. It needed to be investigated, so exhaustive trials were undertaken. The results were really very interesting.
The starting point was the traditional recipe for snake oil, handed down through generations.
First catch your snake, then skin it. Next, kill your snake. Gut it and put the entrails (minus the ::: ahem ::: evacuatative parts) to one side.
Saute two finely chopped onions per pound of snake over a low heat and stir regularly to prevent burning, once the onions start to colour add a teaspoon of muscovado sugar for every nine ounces of onion and continue stirring over a low heat until a light brown caremalisation is apparent. Take the pan off the heat and add your snake carcass, removing the head first if there are any vegetarians nearby.
Add two tablespoons of virgin olive oil for every four inches of snake, season well with salt and pepper. Add one bayleaf (two if the snake was venemous), seventeen finely chopped cherry tomatoes and a small pinch of ground sage. Return the pan to the heat and bring to the boil. Once boiling, skim off any residual scum as soon as it rises to the surface and cook for thirty minutes at a vigorous boil.
Strain the liquid through a fine mesh sieve and pour it into bottles to no more than one twentieth of the volume of the bottle. Top up each bottle with cheap vegetable oil and give it a good shake. Insert a sprig of Thyme to make it look healthy and sell to any passing mug.
The results of the trial? I thought you might ask. Amazingly enough, snake oil sold at a higher price when labelled “organic”. When advertised as a medicine it sold poorly until the label said “homeopathic”. Sales really took off when it was labelled “low carbon”.
The best seller of all was the snake oil to which was added the entrails that were saved from the gutting process. This was “snake oil with added Gore”.

August 30, 2009 9:29 pm

Wait, I though certain media outlets had put out stories about jet exhaust? Didn’t one of the cable channels (Discovery? History?) recently have a special on HARP or the military doing something in the sky? I know for a fact that I remember some German media story about the military in Germany experimenting with exhaust in the skies above their country. There’s also media stories where U.S. military also admitted to expermenting with dispersing particulates in the air, like for missle defense. Seems like it was in Miami or somewhere in Florida, where they made an actual admission (the military).
Doesn’t HARP try to make use of clouds (natural and manmade) to “bounce” raido waves and frequencies around the world? Don’t get me wrong, I ain’t paranoid, but I know there are valid stories out there. I’ve personally seen numerous contrails fan out and become clouds that lasted for hours and hours. My wife and I have commented on them numerous times. Like seeing a contrail that spans the sky in the morning driving to work, then steping out an hour later to retrieve something from the car and seeing the same contrail fanned out a little, then seeing the same contrail going home for lunch fanned out even more, then seeing it a couple hours later when checking just for curiosities sake. Do contrails really last for upwards of 6 hours? Regularly? I’ve also heard a number of people (normal people) commenting that contrails seem to be stinking up the skies lately. I live in a rural area where the nearest airport is 3 hours away. Our skies are usually blue blue blue. Sometimes they get marked up horribly. It’s impossible to miss. Again, I ain’t paranoid, but it would not surprise me to discover that our precious government is doing some sort of weird military experiment in the skies.
There was the Manhattan Project after all. Try going back to 1944 and talking about “atomic bombs” to an unsuspecting crowd. I’m sure you would have been labeled “kook” and laughed right out of town. Truly. They kept that a complete secret from the entire nation, right up to the day the dropped it on Japan. They even tested the darn thing right here in our own country first. Still, it was a secret. Just ’cause the military does something in secret… does that make it kooky?
You guys here at WUWT would be embarrased to know that I get ridiculed when denying AGW around my peers. Doesn’t seem quite fair, does it? Here at WUWT, you can believe that AGW is a farce, but “chemtrails” are material for the loony bin. You might consider being careful how loudly you ridicule. It may come back to haunt you, just like you guys say about the current global warming “scientists.”

August 30, 2009 9:37 pm

I always thought the black helicopter people were nuts. Then I lived in Utah for 2 1/2 years. Black helicopters everywhere. I moved some place safe. NYC

August 30, 2009 10:00 pm

FatBigot, that recipe would do LL Bean proud and you got yourself dinner and a few bucks on the side.

August 30, 2009 10:41 pm

Gary (21:29:45) :
Not loony bin, Gary, but fails under direct observation. There is always the mindset that wants to alarm, but does nothing to seek out the explanation for the phenomenon via direct observation. I observed for myself, and noted the fighters doing things in the exhaust shadow of the tanker refueler. Quite the show they put on. I did, however, come across a crystal generator thing that was touted to protect a community from the alleged exhaust stuff. They wanted to sell you the kit or a finished product for a nice sum. Ok. That’s enough for me when they ask for the credit card. I’ll pass, thank you.
For the folks who use these ‘generators’, they seem to be very happy in thier belief that they are protected from a multitude of various harm.
They don’t try to scare me and I don’t trouble them.

a jones
August 30, 2009 10:50 pm

HARP? wasn’t that the attempt by Dr. Bull to launch suborbital and possibly orbital vehicles by a gun. He might have managed it too. But governments knew best: and held back space exploration for a generation.
You see Bull might have been able to do it. Today, at last, private enterprise is trying to do it in another way. But Bull is fifty years ago.
That is if I have got the right HARP. but the only other ones I know of are stringed instruments, and such like.
Kindest Regards.

August 30, 2009 11:31 pm

In Taipei, a generation ago, there was a place called “snake alley”… snake wine, snake soup…. had a friend who practiced crane-style kung-fu and swore by the virtues of snake wine…. sort of a Taiwanese gingko-baloba, I suppose… we can sneer at climate science, but let’s not denigrate snake oil… it does have its virtues…

August 30, 2009 11:50 pm

a jones (22:50:00) :
Yes, HARP was a Bull project. Much like H.G. Wells’ martians, Bull envisaged guns that could put objects into space. He also didn’t care much who he worked for and was building a “supergun” for Iraq when he was murdered in 1990. The gun would have been useful only if it could have lobbed nukes. On the eve of our last war with Iraq a convoy crossed into Syria and disappeared. Within five years a Syrian WMD facility was bombed by Israel and Iran was finishing its centrifuge array…. just a coincidence, I’m sure… everyone knows that there were no WMDs in Iraq.

Stephen Skinner
August 31, 2009 1:20 am

Gary (21:29:45) : You might consider being careful how loudly you ridicule. It may come back to haunt you, just like you guys say about the current global warming “scientists.” Hi Gary That is a fair point. I think it is false confidence before a fall. However as I understand it the persistence of contrails is dependent on the current characteristics of that part of the atmosphere. So it is possible to have no contrails to the opposite where contrails persist and ultimately generate a complete layer of cloud. The air mass over where you are is perhaps moister and slower than over me here in the UK, although there is nothing consistent about the weather here. However, on some days I have seen what you are describing, but not that often and we get the same planes you do, burning the same fuel.
As far as deliberately trying to alter the weather that has been going on for decades and its not a secret. ‘Cloud seeding’ has been used quite openly to try and generate rain. Silver iodide and Carbon Dioxide are the most common type of cloud ‘seed’ used, and are dispersed from a plane or from the ground. I understand in some countries the military are employed to fire shells containing the above. If such activity is taking place I would have thought that the local farmers would know, as they may have asked for it.

August 31, 2009 2:06 am

The USFS uses propane generators (sprays) at high altitude to do it’s cloud seeding. It is also not a secret, and has been undertaken for decades. They call it ‘precipitation enhancement’. There is a fundamental problem that appears when doing such things.
It can and does sometimes cause the unintended consequence of local starvation of moisture for the intended enhancement area.
However, the USFS does not undertake to impose taxes by scaring citizens.
Also, precipitation enhancement does not work in the absence of moisture streams. You cannot create something from nothing the last time I checked.

M White
August 31, 2009 2:16 am

The truth is out there


Stephen Skinner
August 31, 2009 2:35 am
Atomic Hairdryer
August 31, 2009 3:04 am

Re: Leon Brozyna (21:06:21) :
Some really strange critters out there, beyond those weird Congress critters. Conspiracies everywhere — UFOs, catastrophic AGW, chemtrails, Yeti, secret contacts between aliens and governments.

It’s summer, so slow news season and much easier to get stories slipped in via churnalism. At least in the US you have a few more news sources than we do here in the UK, where journalism has been sacrificed at the efficiency altar. Much cheaper to fill space with ready rolled stories from wire services and PR outfits like Fenton.
Anyway, as for the cloud punchers*, I note the article doesn’t state who’s aircraft. Yeti’s have been around a while, so should have been evolving and maybe this is just a test of the Yeti space programme. Anyone know Big Al’s shoe size or seen him sockless? Could he be their bag man?
cui bono? subsequor magnus pes!
*also affectionate name for UK artillery users. Actually may not be that affectionate, but most of the time they can’t hear, so no worries.

August 31, 2009 3:07 am

>>>Will there be a policy change on chemtrails if the Obama
>>>science team decides high altitude pollution will lower world
>>>temperature and create jobs?
Umm, as it to be expected in our Brave New World, ‘science’ is now imitating comedy and it looks like we might start Chem-trailing (sulphur particles) – and all for the sake of AGW. (What else?)
The graphic that went with this article, had an aircraft spraying sulphur particles into the atmosphere via its contrails, plus a large gun blasting shells of sulphur to explode in the atmosphere.
Do the Royal Society subscribe to National Inquirer?

August 31, 2009 3:25 am

Image of a negative contrail; airplane burned a hole through the cloud or caused it to condensate leaving a dark anti-contrail
Images of a long thin hole-punch cloud:

August 31, 2009 3:38 am

This on HAARP’s Wiki entry relates quite well to humanity’s effect on the climate
“Since the ionosphere is inherently a chaotically turbulent region, HAARP’s defenders state any artificially induced changes would be “swept clean” within seconds or minutes at the most. Ionospheric heating experiments performed at the Arecibo Observatory’s ionospheric heater and incoherent scatter radar have shown that after periods of modification (up to an hour), the ionosphere returns to normal within about the same period of time it had been heated.
For instance, HAARP generates 3.6 megawatts (MW) of power. 3.6 MW is considered a minuscule percentage of the energy compared to all of the energy constantly injected into the Earth, and the ionosphere, by the sun.

Allan M R MacRae
August 31, 2009 3:45 am

For those us who look at our fingers when we type, rather than looking at the screen, the problem is that sometimes the CAPS LOCK key is pressed and we do not realize it until we have typed several paragraphs.
Then we are faced with the choice of re-typing everything, or alternatively trying to explain that we are NOT SHOUTING.
Who decided that CAPS = Shouting anyway?
I say CAPS = Can’t Touch Type.
aLTERNATIVES (see, it really happens):
CAPS = Shouting OR Can’t Touch Type.
CAPS = Shouting ONE Can’t Touch Type.

August 31, 2009 3:47 am

>>>Some really strange critters out there, beyond those weird
>>>Congress critters. Conspiracies everywhere — UFOs, catastrophic
>>>AGW, chemtrails, Yeti, secret contacts between aliens and governments
Let’s not laugh too much, for I have some sympathy with the conspiracy theorists here.
The primary problem is that governments are lying to us, and becoming increasingly cynical in their overt deceit. Having been lied to on numerous occasions, are we surprised that many people disbelieve everything they are told and turn to conspiracy theories to fill in the gaps?
Is that not what we are doing on this blog? The government is lying about AGW, and we have joined in the ‘conspiracy theory’ claiming that it is all a fake. Are we no better than the Chemtrail believers in this?
Other conspiracies that I might be tempted to join in are:
The possible ‘murder’ of David Kelly – the scientist in the UK who could have stopped the invasion of Iraq.
And, believe it or not, some of the Moon landing conspiracy. NOT, I hasten to add, that the USA did not go there – of course they did – but that the early pictures they brought back were all so cr** that someone decided to mock up a few in a hangar for publicity purposes. NASA ran on public opinion, and without good photos it was sunk. Imagine Apollo 11, that enormous great enterprise, with no photos to show the world!! A few illicit photos taken in Area 51 would explain every bit of this conspiracy theory and the many pictorial oddities they have uncovered.

Bruce Cobb
August 31, 2009 3:59 am

“pft” said:
But isn’t it a conspiracy theory to suggest scientists and politicians are working together to foist the false premise of man’s CO2 altering climate and rigging the data and science to support their false premise, and shutting down dissenting scientists by witholding funding and grants. All with the the help of the MSM who report heavily on the alarmists predictions and proclaim the science is settled, not to mention the publishers of science journals who use peer review to censor scientists whose work contradicts the consensus.
No one here has suggested that, and you know it, so are simply being disingenuous. That’s just a tired, idiotic straw man argument the AGWers like to trot out. Now, run back to your troll cave like a good little troll.

August 31, 2009 4:08 am

Not HARP, they’re talking about HAARP, the high frequency active auroral research project. They bounce radio off the ionosphere in order to study it’s behaviour.
It started with some scientists suggesting that it could be used as an EMP weapon for knocking out satellites, or interfering with comms over long ranges. The fact that some of the things they do have an effect on the whole Earth’s ionosphere/magnetosphere has led to further speculation of a science-fiction nature, and it all ended up in the territory of the US government using it as a weather control weapon or even beaming mind-control transmissions into people’s heads.
The fundamental problem with the conspiracy theory in terms of science is not that conspiracies are inherently unlikely, but that the claim of conspiracy is commonly used to explain the total lack of evidence. “It’s a secret. Of course there’s no evidence; they covered it up.”
People see something they don’t understand or can’t themselves explain. They form a hypothesis that involves their favoured boogey-man doing something unpleasant. They predict that it will be covered up, and various stooges and dupes will try to tell them it’s all perfectly innocent. And their prediction is of course soon confirmed. The hypothesis is then elaborated into a complicated theory – epicycles forming as each new contrary observation is fitted in. And they become emotionally invested in its truth, which makes it psychologically impossible for them to give up.
It’s a perfectly natural human behaviour, the way your inbuilt learning process works. It took a long time to recognise the problem and develop the scientific method to avoid it. Science is really all about the extreme lengths you have to go to not to fool yourself. Even people trained in it can be fooled (any who tell you they can’t is a dirty liar), and people who have never had that training certainly can. It goes beyond honesty – you also have to deal with unconscious biases and assumptions.
Watch a professional illusionist – did you spot what he did? Every time? And if you did, was it because someone had previously told you how it was done, (or a trick like it,) or did you figure it out yourself from a standing start?
Those are your unconscious perceptual biases at work – doing science can be that hard. You have to think of the world around you as like a stage magician, and you as the scientist are trying to spot how the trick was done. You have to be systematic. You have to have real evidence for everything you accept, and check and re-check it. You have to identify and eliminate your assumptions. You have to know and account for your own biases. And you have to know how lots of other tricks were done; to know the basic techniques.
It’s a lot of hard work.

August 31, 2009 4:12 am

That’s a very nice and logical explaination for airplane streaks! Keep up your informative blog!

Robert Morris
August 31, 2009 4:57 am

Snake Oil, eh?
I’ve been using bronze gladiator oil on mine…

August 31, 2009 4:57 am

Gary (21:29:45) :
Begin Quote
Wait, I though certain media outlets had put out stories about jet exhaust? Didn’t one of the cable channels (Discovery? History?) recently have a special on HARP or the military doing something in the sky?
End Quote

August 31, 2009 5:30 am

I looked briefly into HAARP a few years ago and decided that the hand wringers’ claims about it being used to control hurricanes lacked any sense of a believable connection. Perhaps you can diddle with the ionospere, but I’d think it more likely to affect Antarctica than the tropics.
A few links gleaned from a private web search (i.e. I typed HAARP into Google):
The official page (it’s official, so it can’t be right) with webcams (fake ones, I’m sure someone would claim): http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/
Account from a engineer and physicist about why the site is benign and ends with an excerpt from President Eisenhower’s farewell address about the Educational-Research Complex: http://www.brojon.org/frontpage/bj040501.html . (See the better known http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/21/ikes-second-warning-hint-it-is-not-the-military-industrial-complex/ )
With a hostname like haarp.net, this must be the official unofficial site, see http://www.haarp.net/haarpoverview.htm . It refers to Tesla’s laser (Laser? Well. “a beam one hundred-millionth of a square centimeter in diameter” – quacks like a laser). The home page is a review of the book “Angels Don’t Play this HAARP: Advances in Tesla Technology.” Not all-caps, but the more understated all-bold.
I’ll stick to discussing Michael Mann, thank you.

August 31, 2009 5:37 am

CAPS are actually good for the environment. But that hasn’t always been the case. In the bad old days of text-based CRT displays, it took more electron beams, therefore more energy, to display a CAP.
Then came Windows and, with black lettering on a white background, the situation was reversed and so a CAP used less energy.
Then along came LCD displays and, as all environmentally-conscious people know, it takes energy to make a LCD pixel transparent, ie light up, so the more CAPS you use the more environmentally-friendly you are.
On the other hand, printing a CAP requires more ink, therefore more planet-wrecking resources.
PS – don’t tell Al Gore 😉

August 31, 2009 5:44 am

Stephen Skinner (01:20:21) :
There was a number of articles prior to the Beijing Olympics talking about the “weather control forces” that were stationed around Beijing with what looked like old anti-aircraft-artillery. They were tasked with cloud seeding and breakup to ensure the Games went off without a hitch. I would be more worried about some of the shells coming down unexploded due to age than the heat and the rain!

August 31, 2009 5:59 am

rephelan (23:31:47) :
… sort of a Taiwanese gingko-baloba, I suppose…

It is biloba… meaning two (bi) lobes (loba), in reference to the shape of the leaves.
(Just kidding)

John Galt
August 31, 2009 6:31 am

Perhaps a debunking of chemtrails would be a good post? Why not attempt to educate instead of just ridiculing?

Innocent bystander
August 31, 2009 6:40 am

Ever heard of the creation of the Federal Reserve – (“the Creature of Jekyll Island” by G. Edward Griffin) – and the global FIAT system of money we have today?
Well, very few people know what money really is (=debt) or how it is created (=out of thin air)…
Well, there you have the biggest conspiracy of all time – “a web of debt” – making all the other ones possible…

August 31, 2009 6:43 am

Here’s a quick but of education…
The HAARP/IRI Program:
The High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP)located in the Wrangell-St. Elias National Park, Alaska uses a device called the Ionospheric Research Instrument (IRI). The purpose of this site is to:
“The HAARP project aims to direct a 3.6 MW signal, in the 2.8-10 MHz region of the HF band, into the ionosphere. The signal may be pulsed or continuous wave. Then effects of the transmission and any recovery period will be examined using associated instrumentation, including VHF and UHF radars, HF receivers, and optical cameras. According to the HAARP team, this will advance the study of basic natural processes that occur in the ionosphere under the natural but much stronger influence of solar interaction, as well as how the natural ionosphere affects radio signals. This will enable scientists to develop techniques to mitigate these effects in order to improve the reliability and/or performance of communication and navigation systems, which would have a wide range of applications in both the civilian and military sectors”-
As for Cloud Seeding vs Chemtrails… well that’s simple, one is real (Cloud seeding) and the other is total BS (Chemtrails). Cloud seeding ~IS NOT~ the same thing. Look it up.

Innocent bystander
August 31, 2009 6:53 am

Council on Foreign Relations: “Geoengineering: Workshop on Unilateral Planetary Scale Geoengineering” –
Global Research: “Hillary Clinton admits that the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) runs the Government”
The video:

“What is the CFR?”

Douglas DC
August 31, 2009 7:15 am

Cloud seeding has gone on for years. There was a project in the Sierra back in the90’s.
It has been around for literally decades.The Manhattan Project was top secret,I know a few old nuke guys having worked as a contractor/pilot in the Hanford area.The people in the know were relatively few in number.Even the Pilots that dropped the Bombs on
Japan did not quite know what was going on.Chemtrails would have to involve such an
extensive net work of conspirators as to have leaks like a sieve…

August 31, 2009 8:01 am

Here’s another “conspiracy” related paranoia I’ve been having. Most of the banks around here misrepresent the temperature. Sure, banks have always done this a few degrees in the past. My dad always told me banks display a couple degrees warmer to trick people into coming inside their air conditioned buildings (back in the 60’s and 70’s when AC wasn’t as prevalent).
Now it’s swung in the complete opposite direction. My wife just called me and told me the banks are displaying the temp as 71 degrees. It’s actually 60. She has just driven 150 miles through several small towns. All the banks that have marquees are displaying 10 degrees warmer than it really is. This is something we’ve both noticed before in our home town. What’s more is that this discrepancy seems to change as the day progresses. The 10 degree difference changes as the day warms up. So this afternoon, when the temp is actually 85 the banks have magically gone back to displaying the proper temp (of 85), then will skew as the evening cools.
Do you have any idea how paranoid that sounds? I’m quite aware. But it doesn’t change the fact that this is going on, and on multiple marquees at multiple banks. Sure, sure, there’s probably a sane rational reason for this – but to merely mention it… does that make me paranoid? Maybe all the banks are using the same (flawed) temperature feed from some hub somewhere. If I was to go loco and say this was an AGW conspiracy, would that make the fact of faulty temperatures go away? Laugh at the conspiracy hysteria, but look at the facts. Sometimes facts lead people to become hysterical. Example? “FIRE!” (my “all caps” for the day)

Craig Moore
August 31, 2009 8:05 am

The winner of this argument will be the one that writes in baseball caps. Go NY!!!!!!!

N. O'Brain
August 31, 2009 8:21 am
N. O'Brain
August 31, 2009 8:21 am

I forgot the [/s] tag on my previosu post.

August 31, 2009 8:33 am

I think there was some change in temperatures noted in the USA, during the few days after 9 11 when there was no air traffic and therefore no contrails.
As I recall the night-time temperatures were roughly a half-degree lower, without contrails acting as a night-time blanket. Night skies were clearer.
I remember noting this item at the time, and wondering if contrails (and not CO2) might contribute to the slight rise in world-wide surface temperatures.
Anyone heard anything about this idea recently?
I find the possibility of contrails having an effect plausible. But contrails are not chemtrails.
(By the way, when I use caps it is because I can’t figure out how to underline words. It is a display of my ignorance.)

Tom Bakewell
August 31, 2009 9:05 am

The then esteemed BBC did a show about HAARP on their “Horizon” series of science/technology programs. I remember watching it on the BBC International in the late ’90’s. Even then the material seemed a bit dated. They did discuss modifying the ionosphere to look for various effects. They were quite interested in near subsurface imaging to locate tunnels as they are quite hard to detect with conventional geophysical remote sensing techniques.

Tim S.
August 31, 2009 9:26 am

I agree with your interpretation of the hole in the cloud, but I also have to agree with the dissenting poster that there is such a phenomenon as chemtrails. Whether it is being done as part of a weather research project by the federal government or a covert U.S. military project, I don’t know… but people have observed and/or photographed jets dispensing material into the air from canisters (through a telescope, of course). Some have suggested that the material could have something to do with deflecting radar.
A mid-1970s patent for something like this can be found here:
And I’d be careful about using the “ridiculous” word in regard to chemtrails. Ridiculous sounds like something the AGW crowd would say to those of us who believe the sun alone drives climate. I considered you more open-minded before reading this post, now I’m not so sure. 🙁
REPLY: Oh, please. The patent is for an improved smoke generator for skywriters. The chemtrails issue will not be discussed here because it is a pointless exercise. – Anthony

August 31, 2009 9:36 am

I heard someone recently raving about “chem trails” and how they were spraying the populous with “pathogens and toxins” to control people’s minds and reduce fertility and such. But what I have yet to hear them explain is why spraying these supposed substances at high altitude so that most of it falls in oceans and deserts or gets ionized by UV rays instead of spraying cities at ground level with a much lower concentration or blowing the stuff from street lights and highway dividers. That’s how I distribute all of my mind control substances but I don’t work for the Freemasons or the government. I like to keep on top of the latest feary-theories.
And as the owner of several snake oil refineries I can hook you up with whatever you need.

August 31, 2009 9:37 am
August 31, 2009 12:08 pm

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?
Reply: Can you pass some of that over here? ~ charles the way too sober moderator

Chuck near Houston
August 31, 2009 12:44 pm

George Varros (03:25:36)
Nice photos George. I like interesting cloud formations and always wonder how they come about.

August 31, 2009 3:32 pm

Urederra (05:59:17) :
Thank you. I’m not sure I ever actually saw it written down…. just my daughter nagging me to improve my memory. Didn’t do too well in Latin class, either… all I can seem to remember is “ursus horribilis horribilis est”.

August 31, 2009 4:38 pm

The honoree of this post sounds almost lucid compared to some the HAARP vs. The Sun people out there. (I’d post a link, but I don’t want to defile Rev. Watt’s site with any traffic coming back from that Singularity of Stoopidity. If you’re into painfully stupid/hilarious conspiracy theory reading, there are days’ worth of link-hopping goodness if you do a search and find the home hive. Happy hunting!)

August 31, 2009 5:27 pm

B.C. (16:38:47) :

The honoree of this post sounds almost lucid compared to some the HAARP vs. The Sun people out there.

Umm, I think I know what you mean. One problem of being recognized for QOTW is that the three lines about me required so much setup. 🙂 Personally, I almost always try to be lucid!

August 31, 2009 5:38 pm

rephelan (15:32:38) : What was that about the horrible bear?

Stu Miller
August 31, 2009 6:14 pm

About 1975, I worked with some meteorologists at Boeing in Seattle. They had a side business in weather control in conjunction with a local flying service. Seattle Tacoma Airport is subject to serious fogs which, with the ILS equipment available at the time, prevented landings until the fog cleared. This resulted in congestion, a stack of airplanes burning fuel waiting to land, and long delays. In an effort to control the delays, the FAA prohibited takeoffs of Seattle bound flights from California if there was fog in Seattle. This was not popular with the airlines. My friends proposed to the FAA and the airlines a fog clearing procedure which essentially consisted of spraying small amounts of ethylene glycol into the air in the approach and landing path over the runway. They were able to demonstrate that their procedure worked because they were aware that the average fog event at Seatac lasted about 3 hours. They convinced the FAA that fog clearing operations usually resulted in fog clearance within 3 hours. After this, departures were approved from California in spite of fog if fog clearing operations were under way. The airlines payed big money for this service for years while understanding that it was not weather modification, but only modification of government behavior.

August 31, 2009 6:26 pm

DaveE (17:38:58) :
rephelan (15:32:38) : What was that about the horrible bear?
Trust me, it was grizzly.

August 31, 2009 6:39 pm

Mr. Werme, I believe you’ve mistakenly taken the sling of my arrow that was launched in the general direction of our most esteemed quotee. My apologies for the confusion. (Then again, after reading the quotee’s text, I believe there’s enough brain fog to go around for all of us. Is there an ILS for the ‘Net?)

August 31, 2009 6:49 pm

Kinda in a vague kinda way on topic… I recall when i was a boy, we used to have problems with japanese fishing vessels fishing inside our waters(back in the 12mile days) Well a local pilot took matters into his own hands, with his chem laden aircraft(a crop duster) he dive bombed a skiff and dumped his chem load onto the poor buggars, they never knew what hit em! it sunk it. No sailors were killed, they got a bit soggy though. Ill bet he didnt have to buy a beer for a while after that. (pre PC days obviously)
Reply: No chem tales either! ;~( ~ ctm

August 31, 2009 11:10 pm


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