
NEW 4/10/09: There is an update to this post, see below the “read the rest of this entry” – Anthony
Guest Post by Richard Lindzen, PhD.
Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology, Department of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Science, MIT

This essay is from an email list that I subscribe to. Dr. Lindzen has sent this along as an addendum to his address made at ICCC 2009 in New York City. I present it here for consideration. – Anthony
The wavelength of visible light corresponds to the temperature of the sun’s surface (ca 6000oK). The wavelength of the heat radiation corresponds to the temperature of the earth’s atmosphere at the level from which the radiation is emitted (ca 255oK). When the earth is in equilibrium with the sun, the absorbed visible light is balanced by the emitted heat radiation.
The basic idea is that the atmosphere is roughly transparent to visible light, but, due to the presence of greenhouse substances like water vapor, clouds, and (to a much lesser extent) CO2 (which all absorb heat radiation, and hence inhibit the cooling emission), the earth is warmer than it would be in the absence of such gases.
The Perturbed Greenhouse
If one adds greenhouse gases to the atmosphere, one is adding to the ‘blanket’ that is inhibiting the emission of heat radiation (also commonly referred to as infrared radiation or long wave radiation). This causes the temperature of the earth to increase until equilibrium with the sun is reestablished.
For example, if one simply doubles the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere, the temperature increase is about 1°C.
If, however, water vapor and clouds respond to the increase in temperature in such a manner as to further enhance the ‘blanketing,’ then we have what is called a positive feedback, and the temperature needed to reestablish equilibrium will be increased. In the climate GCMs (General Circulation Models) referred to by the IPCC (the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change), this new temperature ranges from roughly 1.5°C to 5°C.
The equilibrium response to a doubling of CO2 (including the effects of feedbacks) is commonly referred to as the climate sensitivity.
Two Important Points
1. Equilibration takes time.
2. The feedbacks are responses to temperature – not to CO2 increases per se.
The time it takes depends primarily on the climate sensitivity, and the rapidity with which heat is transported down into the ocean. Both higher sensitivity and more rapid mixing lead to longer times. For the models referred to by the IPCC, this time is on the order of decades.
This all leads to a crucial observational test of feedbacks!
The Test: Preliminaries
Note that, in addition to any long term trends that may be present, temperature fluctuates on shorter time scales ranging from years to decades.
Such fluctuations are associated with the internal dynamics of the ocean- atmosphere system. Examples include the El Nino – Southern Oscillation, the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, etc.
These fluctuations must excite the feedback mechanisms that we have just described.
The Test
1. Run the models with the observed sea surface temperatures as boundary conditions.
2. Use the models to calculate the heat radiation emitted to space.
3. Use satellites to measure the heat radiation actually emitted by the earth.
When temperature fluctuations lead to warmer temperatures, emitted heat radiation should increase, but positive feedbacks should inhibit these emissions by virtue of the enhanced ‘blanketing.’ Given the model climate sensitivities, this ‘blanketing’ should typically reduce the emissions by a factor of about 2 or 3 from what one would see in the absence of feedbacks. If the satellite data confirms the calculated emissions, then this would constitute solid evidence that the model feedbacks are correct.
The Results of an Inadvertent Test

Above graph:
Comparison of the observed broadband LW and SW flux anomalies for the tropics with climate model simulations using observed SST records. The models are not given volcanic aerosols, so the should not expected to show the Mt. Pinatubo eruption effects in mid-1991 through mid-1993. The dashed line shows the mean of all five models, and the gray band shows the total rnage of model anomalies (maximum to minimum).
It is the topmost panel for long wave (LW) emission that we want.
Let us examine the top figure a bit more closely.
From 1985 until 1989 the models and observations are more or less the same – they have, in fact, been tuned to be so. However, with the warming after 1989, the observations characteristically exceed 7 times the model values. Recall that if the observations were only 2-3 times what the models produce, it would correspond to no feedback. What we see is much more than this – implying strong negative feedback. Note that the ups and downs of both the observations and the model (forced by observed sea surface temperature) follow the ups and downs of temperature (not shown).
Note that these results were sufficiently surprising that they were confirmed by at least 4 other groups:
Chen, J., B.E. Carlson, and A.D. Del Genio, 2002: Evidence for strengthening of the tropical general circulation in the 1990s. Science, 295, 838-841.
Cess, R.D. and P.M. Udelhofen, 2003: Climate change during 1985–1999: Cloud interactions determined from satellite measurements. Geophys. Res. Ltrs., 30, No. 1, 1019, doi:10.1029/2002GL016128.
Hatzidimitriou, D., I. Vardavas, K. G. Pavlakis, N. Hatzianastassiou, C. Matsoukas, and E. Drakakis (2004) On the decadal increase in the tropical mean outgoing longwave radiation for the period 1984–2000. Atmos. Chem. Phys., 4, 1419–1425.
Clement, A.C. and B. Soden (2005) The sensitivity of the tropical-mean radiation budget. J. Clim., 18, 3189-3203.
The preceding authors did not dwell on the profound implications of these results – they had not intended a test of model feedbacks! Rather, they mostly emphasized that the differences had to arise from cloud behavior (a well acknowledged weakness of current models). However, as noted by Chou and Lindzen (2005, Comments on “Examination of the Decadal Tropical Mean ERBS Nonscanner Radiation Data for the Iris Hypothesis”, J. Climate, 18, 2123-2127), the results imply a strong negative feedback regardless of what one attributes this to.
The Bottom Line
The earth’s climate (in contrast to the climate in current climate GCMs) is dominated by a strong net negative feedback. Climate sensitivity is on the order of 0.3°C, and such warming as may arise from increasing greenhouse gases will be indistinguishable from the fluctuations in climate that occur naturally from processes internal to the climate system itself.
An aside on Feedbacks
Here is an easily appreciated example of positive and negative feedback. In your car, the gas and brake pedals act as negative feedbacks to reduce speed when you are going too fast and increase it when you are going too slow. If someone were to reverse the position of the pedals without informing you, then they would act as positive feedbacks: increasing your speed when you are going too fast, and slowing you down when you are going too slow.
Alarming climate predictions depend critically on the fact that models have large positive feedbacks. The crucial question is whether nature actually behaves this way? The answer, as we have just seen, is unambiguously no.
UPDATE: There are some suggestions (in comments) that the graph has issues of orbital decay affecting the nonscanner instrument’s field of view. I’ve sent a request off to Dr. Lindzen for clarification. – Anthony
UPDATE2: While I have not yet heard from Dr. Lindzen (it has only been 3 hours as of this writing) commenter “wmanny” found this below, apparently written by Lindzen to address the issue:
“Recently, Wong et al (Wong, Wielicki et al, 2006, Reexamination of the Observed Decadal Variability of the Earth Radiation Budget Using Altitude-Corrected ERBE/ERBS Nonscanner WFOV Data, J. Clim., 19, 4028-4040) have reassessed their data to reduce the magnitude of the anomaly, but the remaining anomaly still represents a substantial negative feedback, and there is reason to question the new adjustments.”
I found the text above to match “wmanny’s” comment in a presentation given by Lindzen to Colgate University on 7/11/2008 which you can see here as a PDF:
http://portaldata.colgate.edu/imagegallerywww/3503/ImageGallery/LindzenLectureBeyondModels.pdf
– Anthony
UPDATE3: I received this email today (4/10) from Dr. Lindzen. My sincere thanks for his response.
Dear Anthony,
The paper was sent out for comments, and the comments (even those from “realclimate”) are appreciated. In fact, the reduction of the difference in OLR between the 80’s and 90’s due to orbital decay seems to me to be largely correct. However, the reduction in Wong, Wielicki et al (2006) of the difference in the spikes of OLR between observations and models cannot be attributed to orbital decay, and seem to me to be questionable. Nevertheless, the differences that remain still imply negative feedbacks. We are proceeding to redo the analysis of satellite data in order to better understand what went into these analyses. The matter of net differences between the 80’s and 90’s is an interesting question. Given enough time, the radiative balance is reestablished and the anomalies can be wiped out. The time it takes for this to happen depends on climate sensitivity with adjustments occurring more rapidly when sensitivity is less. However, for the spikes, the time scales are short enough to preclude adjustment except for very low sensitivity.
That said, it has become standard in climate science that data in contradiction to alarmism is inevitably ‘corrected’ to bring it closer to alarming models. None of us would argue that this data is perfect, and the corrections are often plausible. What is implausible is that the ‘corrections’ should always bring the data closer to models.
Best wishes,
Dick
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“What hyperbole!”
Oh really? Perhaps desertification is a new concept to purveyors of science blogs of this level? It isn’t to ecologists and actual climate scientists. Neither are forcings=CO2 and feedback=water vapor. Lindzen’s grasp of the facts has been dubious and proven wrong on innumerable fronts for years. There’s nothing new here. It’s the same up is down falsehood as the others. There’s a difference between a weathermen and a climate scientist. I’m sure he can teach freshman meteorology 101 just fine.
This is just more Freeper stuff. Nothing new there either, not if this sort of pretzel logic is any indication.
chriscolose (16:21:58) :
maksimovich
Anthony Watts is not correct. The ecological impacts depend on the degree of warming and the location. Losses likely outweigh “growth” at higher temperature gains. IPCC WG2 has more info.
Let see,species,taxa and biomass geometrically progress from say 90 latitude to the equator doubling every 10 degrees of distance and a temperature increase of say 50-60c.
We can understand this as a function of metabolism and cell geometry where say species tradeoff size for life functions. So there is an energy curve stepped poleward.(This well described by some very serious scientists eg Schrodinger,Dyson,Eigen, Brioullion ,Morowitz.)
CO2 is a limiting quality,due to competition etc.
If we leave co2 and examine say only the response of the c4 dynasty and the effects of say water limitation and temperature then we see some interesting numbers.
Bjorn et al
‘ About half of this planet’s photosynthetic production takes place on land, and the other half in water. According to Sage (2004) the mere 3% of the terrestrial plants having C4 metabolism carry out about half of the production on land. C4 photosynthesis has evolved at least 45 times (Sage 2004).
The earliest C4 dicots are likely members of the Chenopodiaceae dating back 15–21 million yr; however, most C4 dicot lineages are estimated to have appeared relatively recently, perhaps less than 5 million yr ago. C4 photosynthesis in the dicots originated in arid regions of low latitude, implicating combined effects of heat, drought and/or salinity as important conditions promoting C4 evolution.’
Lamd use changes and co2 forcing”s are different “animals”
Wow – people here seem to think Lindzens graph is some kind of Holy Grail. Careful not to drink from it too deeply [snip]. That beloved creep of the red line to the north unfortunately corresponds to some damned orbital decay changing the nonscanner instrument’s field of view. Use the ERBS Edition 3 observational data (that compensates for this) instead of the old 2002 that Lindzen uses and sorry dudes – yr silver bullet just shat itself. The observations end up tracking the models like a muther-bitch. What is strange is why Lindzen (or anyone in this thread) fails to even mention that the corrected data even exists. Conspiracy theorists will imply that ERBS Edition 3 data is fraudulent and manipulated but that’s just weak and desperate.
anna v (20:32:25) :
You realize that the mirror will stop the incoming that is setting up the steady state of the grey surface by x%? So the surface will lose x% of incoming and get back 50% of less reflected IR,less than it had without the mirror, the temperature will drop, no steady state on previous temperature.
You’re missing the point, let’s take some realistic figures.
Baseline case 100 input gives surface SS temperature T.
Insert dichroic 99.5 input and 99.5 IR radiates from surface at a slightly lower T than before. 50% of the IR is reflected back to the surface, 49.75 so the surface is now receiving 149.25 so it heats up further until it radiates 149.25. Now the reflected component is 74.6 and the surface receives 174.1 and so on. The temperature will continue to rise until output equals input at which point 250 is both incident on and radiating from the surface.
It doesn’t matter what the losses are you still get the amplification.
Mark A. York (21:03:39) :
“What hyperbole!”
Oh really? Perhaps desertification is a new concept to purveyors of science blogs of this level?
Even the deeply biased Wikipedia entry on desertification hardly says anything about the role global warming (might) play.
Dr.Harry Borhlsachs-
Did you look at the corrected ERBE data carefully? There may be a turd in there, but I suspect it is in the corrected curves. The claimed problem is that it is a field of view variation due to orbital decay of 0.6%. If so, then (as they state in the paper) both the LW and SW curves should have the same correction over time. Instead, the corrected curve for LW shows no change until 1991, followed by a growing correction to the end of the record. The corrected SW curve is, however, essentially identical to the uncorrected SW curve.
The differences in the shapes of corrected LW and SW curves contradict the reason for the correction. I don’t trust the corrections.
George E. Smith (17:26:59) :
in your reply to “”” Kevin (11:47:43) :
So -18C for a high altitude effective final source of earth’s thermal radiation is not too bad a picture.
I hope that answers your query.
The basic reason one has to go to high altitude to use the black body mode rationally is because only in that rarefied level one can have a good approximation of energy conservation as “radiation” conservation, because radiation is the main thing available. Otherwise, at lower heights, a lot of the energy is running around in different modes and radiation conservation is meaningless, let alone black body approximations.
“C4 photosynthesis has evolved at least 45 times”
Yes, but AGW is creationism.. 🙂
Phil.
There must be a logical fallacy in this train of arguing, otherwise all sun water heaters ( and we have many in Greece) would be having these “dichroic mirrors” of yours.
Wiki has a different definition
iDichroism has two related but distinct meanings in optics. A dichroic material is either one which causes visible light to be split up into distinct beams of different wavelengths (colours) (not to be confused with dispersion), or one in which light rays having different polarizations are absorbed by different amounts. [1]
So that is not what you mean. You mean something like one way transparent to short wave and long wave, and the other mirror. I will think about this.
As I said, your argument isw like the oven I linked to above.
ChrisColose
You rail against missing out key information and talk about getting everything in context yet somehow you failed to mention that the IPCC does predict increased overall plant growth for all but the most extreme temperature scenarios. You mention only the losses which are regarded as “likely” under the very extreme scenarios. Physician heal thyself.
One thing you do really notice about the corrections (yes more than one correction) is that the first conclusion says that the newly corrected data now disproves Lindzen’s Iris theory. The second conclusion made is that the corrected data now agrees with the models. One does rather get the impression that it was Lindzen’s use of the data that occasioned these corrections in the first place.
Dr.Harry Borhlsachs (21:42:55) :
chris y (00:15:25) :
Sounds like it’s time for Prof. Lindzen to step in and explain why he used the original and not the ‘corrected’ data.
/Mr Lynn
Craig Allen (20:58:53). Sea level is really only increasing in the Indian Ocean over the last five years as I said
Here is the North Atlantic.
http://www.aviso.oceanobs.com/fileadmin/images/news/indic/msl/MSL_Serie_J1_NorthAtl_NoIB_RWT_PGR_NoAdjust.gif
Here is the Mediterranean.
http://www.aviso.oceanobs.com/fileadmin/images/news/indic/msl/MSL_Serie_J1_Medit_NoIB_RWT_PGR_NoAdjust.gif
The South Atlantic.
http://www.aviso.oceanobs.com/fileadmin/images/news/indic/msl/MSL_Serie_J1_SouthAtl_NoIB_RWT_PGR_NoAdjust.gif
The North Pacific.
http://www.aviso.oceanobs.com/fileadmin/images/news/indic/msl/MSL_Serie_J1_NorthPac_NoIB_RWT_PGR_NoAdjust.gif
The South Pacific.
http://www.aviso.oceanobs.com/fileadmin/images/news/indic/msl/MSL_Serie_J1_SouthPac_NoIB_RWT_PGR_NoAdjust.gif
And finally, the only ocean basin increasing in a statistical sense, but falling now, the Indian Ocean.
http://www.aviso.oceanobs.com/fileadmin/images/news/indic/msl/MSL_Serie_J1_Indian_NoIB_RWT_PGR_NoAdjust.gif
Anna the wiki definition is inadequate, dichroic mirrors are filters which pass light at one wavelength range and reflect another, hence ‘dichroic’. The wavelengths used are not confined to the visible and they can be bought covering wavelengths from the UV to the IR, they are frequently used as output couplers for laser cavities. As for use in water heaters I think you’d find them exceptionally expensive, the 1-2″ ones that I used in my lab typically cost several hundred dollars each. Also one such as I described would be a custom design if it were practical because of the large wavelength range required.
~snip~
Phil and others on feedback-
GE introduced a filament light bulb about 10 years ago that contains a small glass envelope surrounding the filament. The glass envelope has a multilayer dielectric coating that passes visible light but reflects mid-IR light back onto the filament (the envelope is a cylinder with the straight filament positioned at the focus of the reflecting envelope’s surface). As a result of this positive feedback, the filament requires less electrical power to achieve the same filament temperature. The coated envelopes cost a few pennies each to make (that process was what GE spent buckets of money developing). The efficiency improvement is on the order of 30% if I remember correctly. It does not run away, even though it is positive feedback.
However, this analogy does not apply to greenhouse gases, since they do not reflect energy back to the surface. They absorb energy and quickly thermalize with the local atmosphere.
A better analogy would be to place an IR absorbing glass above the surface. The dichroic glass transmits the visible light but absorbs the thermal radiation emitted from the heated surface. Now what do you expect the surface temperature to do? This is not so straightforward a thought experiment.
In feedback systems with no time delay, the gain of the closed loop is given by G/(1-GH), where G is the forward gain (G>0) and H is the feedback coefficient. If GH=1, the system becomes unstable. If H is positive, a stable system can result if GH<1. If GH is negative, the system will always be stable. The closer GH approaches +1, the more unstable the system, with oscillatory behavior becoming more obvious, even in well-damped systems.
I think I recall a feedback of GH=0.8 in some of the climate models (a factor of 5 amplification due to water vapor feedback). If this were true, oscillatory behavior in global temperatures following Pinatubo’s eruption (a very nice impulse forcing experiment) should have been observed. It was not. Either the damping effects of the climate are large, or the feedback is much less than 0.8, or both. The months-long drop in global TSI at the surface was on the order of 10% during this eruption.
Linzden has been economical with the truth in this article I have read, using older 2002 datasets that have been updated since. Anyone for peer review?
To” There is a third option, perhaps he doesn’t trust the “correction”. I know that many of us here don’t trust “corrections” applied to data. For example most GISS corrections of weather station data for homogenization are the wrong sign.” (07:44:04)
Lindzen:
“Recently, Wong et al (Wong, Wielicki et al, 2006, Reexamination of the Observed Decadal Variability of the Earth Radiation Budget Using Altitude-Corrected ERBE/ERBS Nonscanner WFOV Data, J. Clim., 19, 4028-4040) have reassessed their data to reduce the magnitude of the anomaly, but the remaining anomaly still represents a substantial negative feedback, and there is reason to question the new adjustments.”
I don’t have the date of the presentation in which he writes this, and perhaps his position has changed, but there it is.
chris y (06:40:41) :
Many people here (including yourself I think) seem to be implying that run-away means ‘goes to infinity’. That of course is impossible. However if (in the case of the earth) you mean a small perturbation can cause the system to ‘run’ all the way from one extreme state to another, well then that obviously is possible and occurs all the time for the earth (every 100,000 years or so) and all the time for public speakers who turn the volume up too high.
I agree with you about oscillations. There should be oscillations even with small positive feedback UNLESS of course you ‘run-away’ to pin the system at saturation.
– Without positive feedback you can’t have an ice-age.
– With positive feedback you should see oscillations. With the size of the positive feedback required to have an ice-age you should see very large oscillations indeed, unless the positive feedback is driving the system to saturation.
– We don’t see these oscillations.
Therefore …
see
http://www.ianschumacher.com/maximum_temperature.html
and
http://www.ianschumacher.com/iceages.html
Ian Schumacher:
Aren’t you perhaps reading a bit much into that graph?
The trend in the ‘rapid’ rises on the graph amounts to something in the order of 0.2c/century, and that of the ‘rapid’ decreases is much slower. It seems to me that the rate of change around the small peaks superimposed on the underlying trend could be much greater.
Bill:
It’s pure conjecture to suggest that “heat waves” will become more frequent.
Heat waves happen as a result of a high-pressure system which remains stationary for several days, coupled with strong sunshine and, normally, high humidity. With no wind, the area under the high pressure system becomes like a huge greenhouse, functioning similarly to a ‘real’ greenhouse. With little or no air movement to remove the heat from the surface, the temperature gets very high.
Do you know of any mechanism by which CO2 can create such conditions?
As an aside, under such extreme conditions, wind turbines won’t generate any electricity to power all the air conditioners. People will die as a result.
Yes the plants will save us. Say hallelujah! Guess it’s time to get back to work on growing back the Amazon rain forest. In addition to unleashing too much CO2 for our own good, our land use practices also screw us in the wrong and not enjoyable way. It’s good to see “science sites” can dispense with major environmental problems so easily. Look ma no hands!
Peter (10:02:00) :
“Aren’t you perhaps reading a bit much into that graph?”
Sure, quite possibly … I looked at the data, I have a theory that matches it as closely as I can. I post it here looking for feedback/discussion.
0.2C might be rapid when you consider the mass of the oceans. I’m just going by what I read elsewhere that this was temperature changes coming out of ice-ages was rapid. I havn’t done the math myself.
The asymmetry is interesting … what causes it? I don’t know. Hey, its all fascinating. The fractal nature .. also fascinating. I have no idea. Fun stuff 🙂
Anthony,
I got the following from Colose’s blog
Say it ain’t so. I’m a skeptic (more accurately a lukewarmer) and John had a good point. I’ve heard talk of censoring on this site and I’d much rather believe that this sort of censorship is generally found only on alarmist sites.
REPLY: Hi Bill, as I’ve mentioned on the Air vent, I viewed a single statement in the comment “Does this qualify as the good and transparent science quite rightly promoted by WUWT?” as a smear on me, based on my knowledge and history of Mr. Philips here. Maybe I was wrong and overreacted by reading too much into it, but it seemed to me that he was saying I published Lindzens essay with knowledge of the issue beforehand and attempted to mislead people.
So farJohn Philips hasnotweighed in on the Air Vent (even though I’ve asked) on what his intent actually was. In hindsight what I probably should have done is left the main part and snipped only that. That was my mistake. If people expect perfection in moderation, they won’t find it here, or at RC, or at Tamino’s, or or any other blog that is moderated. Yes I’ve deleted comments before, and I’ll do so in the future, as is my perogative, and something that is regularly practiced elsewhere, even at Climate Audit, which is moderated in hindsight.Here is what I wrote on the Air Vent
http://noconsensus.wordpress.com/2009/04/02/ten-replies-to-gavin-advocacy-vs-science/#comments
This issue is moot now anyway, since a reference to the newer data by Lindzen was found and I’ve posted it above. (see the update #2) But I’m sure there will be a continuance of “how terrible I am” because I’ve deleted a comment from someone, as is my right n my own blog. For those who wonder about comments, please read the “policy” tab above. – Anthony
Mark A. York:
Why don’t you spend some time on GoogleEarth and see for yourself how much of the Amazon rain forest has been cleared and how much remains?
I think you’re in for a surprise – don’t take my word for it, check it out for yourself.