I’ve held off as long as I can with commenting on the presedential election, as it tends to suck all the oxygen right out of the room, but this issue needs to be aired. There’s more to Obama’s energy plan than bankrupting coal power plants. He also intends to make energy prices “skyrocket”:
This doesn’t sound sustainable to me. Hat tip to Jon Jewitt.
UPDATE: here is video from the San Francisco Chronicle of the actual interview:
Hat tip to Fred for this one.
McCain thought he could win Democratic votes by bashing Republicans and pretending to be a Democrat. Instead, all he accomplished was to give 15% approval Pelosi and Reid a larger majority. It was almost as if his campaign advisers were working for the other side.
Palin comes out the winner because she broke free from McCain’s useful idiots and came back to her core values. Look for the 2012 campaign to start tomorrow.
I just watched a video where Obama announced that he was going to “call” 65,000 young people to service in the military. yes, I remember those days from the 1960s well. It was called “Selective Service.”
Does anyone ever actually listen to what he is saying? His audiences remind me of deer staring into the headlights.
David Ball
I was astonished and surprised how little we know about the tuff our wealth and prosperity is built upon.
I got to think with modern computer and aerodynamics we get 747th to fly but when we program the wingspan and weight of a bumble bee into the computer Aerospace engineering tell us they shouldn’t be able to fly.
But I think sooner or later with a scientific approach they will find how bees fly.
Climatologists on the other hand would go after every bee with a fly swatter.
I hope we laugh at ourselves much sooner than 500 years, 10 years perhaps or i hope.
It amazes me how many people know what I think. Were I to believe what has been written here, I wouldn’t like me. But nonetheless, I am a liberal. Like Lincoln was. And Washington. And Franklin. And Adams. These men were radical liberals compared to the conservative faction they sought to either change or overthrow. So Obama has expressed reservations, strongly so, regarding the use of coal. By the way, anyone know why Franklin tried to come up with a stove that would take the place of an open hearth? Anyone know why Adams sought to provide a public education to all the people? Anyone know why the government ordered vaccinations for the masses? Anyone know why cheap (read free) labor would eventually bite us in the butt if it were allowed to continue? Anyone know why electric lighting (or any other kind of lighting) was being researched as an alternative to gas lighting? Anyone know why unregulated meat was not in our best interest? Anyone know why coal was eventually banned as an openly burned source of energy? We have lots of things that spoil our air and food today. But we modern folk have no idea what it was like decades ago when bacteria, gas, oil, and coal spoiled our food, our air and lungs every day. Maybe part of our desire to change our energy sources to something cleaner has old memories in it. These old memories were indeed horrible for children and women especially who had to live and breath in cramped living quarters along dank city streets. These things were substantially improved because of governmental regulations and programs. Yet men still die of black lung. Yes, even now. And miners still get caught in death traps while digging for black gold. These memories and events are neither conservative nor liberal. They were and are still distressing and need to be addressed, lest we repeat history to our own detriment.
That said, I for one believe that coal could and should become a clean source of energy, but in so doing, it will not provide cheap energy. It will however, help reduce our dependence on damned foreigners who don’t like us much and often have us by our privates over a barrel of oil. That is also not a conservative nor a liberal thought. Anyone with a brain knows that the conservative religious thought of radical muslims have a hatred in their heart for all westerners, be they red or blue. And we shouldn’t rely on them for even the crumbs from a piece of toast, even if it ends up that toasting our own slice of bread will be more expensive.
But back to the less than dignified way that some are posting here and the conclusions some have made regarding liberals. Some here seem to know what I, or any other liberal, think, and paint it in colors of their own choosing. But people are more complicated, and history is more complicated, than simple hues of red and blue. Most of us see each other through colors we choose to see from. It is the rare individual who takes those colored glasses off and seeks to find out how a conservative or liberal thinks by asking him or her and then taking what they hear at a face value, instead of re-interpreting it back into the colors we choose to see from. I have conservative folks in my family. These are people I love and respect. That includes respecting their views as they are stated without the color commentary. It has even changed the way I view some things. And I have changed the way they view some things. But I would never describe them in the vitriolic verbiage I have read here.
Maybe we need grandmas to throw some cold water on us. While it is American to state our views about our parties and beliefs, have you not remembered the golden rule? It is neither red or blue. For shame.
Did I hear that right? Did he say he was going to use the billions generated in the cap and trade policy to fund the subsidising of the wind and solar energy industry?
How the hell is he going to do that if he sends all the Coal industries broke?
This guy doesn’t even make sense!
I pity you Americans if you vote him in. But it will be entertaining to watch.
This civillian security force scares me… I think of the night of the long knives
UCLAiri
True, Presidents have limited power to change things however with a very liberal President and a if the Democrats win the house and the senate as expected with the control going to the extreme left. The President can nominate extremely liberal judges to the Supreme Court, who have already established a bias of making law not interpreting law.
Obama is a disaster waiting to happen with all of his 143 days of experience.
It’s shame you went politcal on your site Anthony.
[deleted expletive phrase ~ charles the moderator]
Pamela,
I appreciate your thoughts.
I stay out of political discussions generally – because people stop using logic. Their brains function on a lower level when emotional. However, I think that the discussions on this web site are much more cerebral than on any political blog. Also, I would argue that most bloggers on this site are environmentally conscious, and support “green” technology! I certainly do. After reading through the posts I think that the majority of our bloggers favor clean coal. There is no question that scrubbing the particulates and sulfates from the emissions has had a beneficial effect on the environment in coal burning areas. However, we must not confuse “clean coal” with “CO2 free emissions”. We are all educated enough to recognize that there is a monumental distinction between the two. One is grounded in science, while the other is a scam. This is a scientific based blog. It should be obvious to you and everyone who posts on this site why the cap and trade policy gets everyone’s hide rankled.
you are kidding charles!
Pamela Gray,
Our current power generation scheme is almost invisible. Coal is so clean and unobtrusive that most of us don’t even know where our power comes from. It took a long time to get to this point – coal fired power plants used to be filthy. We have already overcome that hurdle.
The thought of tens of thousands of windmills chopping up birds, and power lines everywhere sounds like an environmental catastrophe. Winter here in Colorado tends to be cold and the air is very still – reliance on wind would be a complete disaster during the two seasons when we need power the most.
I’m extremely happy with my (very low carbon footprint) life, and I don’t need some arrogant young idealist in Washington “fixing” it. My wife grew up in the USSR under the very vision he espouses (service, equality, fairness, government control.) Millions tried to escape the USSR every year to the United States, and had to be contained by the “civilian security force” – otherwise known as the KGB.
After reading all of these responses, maybe some of you will be encouraged by this.
I can’t stand McCain. Carbon trading was my issue, and they have both advocated it. I was willing to sit this one out….until this morning.
I listened to this interview with Obama in its entirety. This guy is morally and ethically bankrupt. I don’t mind philosophical differences, but this is on a whole different level.
Who in their right mind would INTENTIONALLY make energy costs “necessarily skyrocket”? And during a recession, no less? Does he realize what this will do to those who can afford it least? The nation’s poor that he supposedly represents? Or does his treatment of his own family reflect who he really is after all? I had dismissed all of that until I listened to this interview.
There’s something wrong with this guy’s thought process. He’s neither liberal nor conservative, he’s anti-human. I have to show up & vote against him after hearing this. Take me out of the undecided, not-likely-to-show-up column.
I feel better now.
And now back to our regularly scheduled program…..
JimB (20:05:03) :
Steven Hill (18:47:37) :
That’s the Free State Project whose goal was to get 20,000 people to commit to move to New Hampshire and then do so in five years. So far, they’ve only gotten 8781 participants, but 622 have moved to NH. (Or were already here, I’m not sure, but since I’m already here, I don’t need to remember.)
Some of the people who’ve moved in are interesting, well educated folks committed to encouraging people live their own lives. Some are politically active, some aren’t, some are very good additions.
http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/holidays/cultural-holidays/new-hampshire-the-taste-of-freedom-935906.html is a surprisingly good report.
Oh – move soon – I think NH is going to vote for Obama. Can you get here by Tuesday evening?
Anthony:
This bottle should not have been uncorked.
The battle against AGW is not one of liberals vs. conservatives, it is one of truth vs. propaganda. Science vs. ignorance dressed as science.
People of all political persuasions recognize the greens as a menace to society, even if some are more apt to tolerate their idiocy.
So folks, let the other battle work itself out tomorrow. Then lets get back to what this site is all about.
kim (19:31:56) :
So why do polls of the rest of the world show an overwhelming preference for Obama?
open your mind;s eyes:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/oct/17/uselections2008-barackobama1
and the busy readers digest, lots of blurb:
http://www.rd.com/your-america-inspiring-people-and-stories/global-poll-how-the-world-sees-the-2008-election/article102257.html
The world views the Bush administration as disastrous, and is terribly afraid of McCain’s continuation of imperial war policies. Ofcourse you all are judging by your country’s criteria, but please be aware that history is something that is written outside frontiers. Do not wear pink glasses.
On this AGW issue, maybe Obama is worse than McCain, but McCain has promised to use Al Gore if elected, so what is the difference between them except maybe candor and knowing the results of actions?
It amazes me how many people know what I think. Were I to believe what has been written here, I wouldn’t like me. But nonetheless, I am a liberal. Like Lincoln was. And Washington. And Franklin. And Adams. These men were radical liberals compared to the conservative faction they sought to either change or overthrow.
#B^1
I know what you mean–there are those on other blogs whom I’d just hate to characterize my views! And you make very good picks; you avoid the ones I don’t like. And I agree with the need for reasonable regulation–the robber barons have taught us well. I also favor a lot of what some people describe as “big government” (“as small as possible” can still add up to “pretty damn big”).
Unfortunately, many who call themselves “liberal” have simply fallen off the left edge of the table. And the country is split red and blue. That is the normal historical condition of America. The red/blue split is NOTHING compared with the Blue/Gray split of much of the 19th century. Or the Federalist-Democratic Republican split. Or the Union/Industrialist split.
America had an artificial joining during WWII, partially but not completely sustained by the Cold War–and that is fading. We are returning to historical normality: i.e, a House Divided.
The so-called liberals may regain their senses. Perhaps they may get their heads straight and go my way, once again. But I cannot count on it. And I won’t go theirs.
We are of a kind, you and I. (Separated by merely a few economic concepts.) I enjoin you to observe the unfortunate manner in which a huge percentage of the country has departed from the ideals of the founders you adduce. They are not like you; make no mistake.
Neither are the conservatives, mind. You and I will never be entirely at home with them. But they provide us a much needed shelter, and we must be genuinely grateful for it and pay for it in noblesse oblige. They will never be like us, but they are closer to us than our erstwhile comrades who have gone astray.
So we wait for them to return to genuine liberalism. It’s all we can do. We must not follow them into intellectual darkness.
In the meantime, we must accept the sad reality that they have made themselves our intellectual enemies, and I use that word advisedly. They have said so themselves. Beware of them. Do not expect any gratitude for your loyalty, nor any consideration; you won’t get it. There is no reasonable doubt to grant: You and I are declared apostate. Abandoned.
We are worse than betrayed. We are orphaned.
When the conservatives speak of “liberals” they do not mean us. We cannot fairly blame them for the misconception. And our only shelter is among the loving heathen.
Meanwhile, we wait with a terrible patience. We wait for our liberals to return to us.
October Mauna Loa is out … big jump
Retired, registered Dem, just voted for Sarah Palin. County clerk apologized for the long voting line, said the bus from Chicago just arrived.
@ur momisugly davidgmills (16:57:19) :
At least Obama has read the Federalist Papers. I wonder how many on this blog have ever really read the Constitution or studied the founding fathers.
I, for one, have read the Constitution, and the Federalist Papers, and the Soviet Constitution, and have tried wading through Mein Kampf. Amazing the assumptions people make about what’s in these documents. Senator Biden’s incorrect statement of what the Constitution says about the Vice-Presidency is an example.
I can’t believe educated people complain that Obama is going to make this country socialist. What a crock! It is as if people here have no clue what socialism is.
Socialism is a broad term, comprising communism, fascism, the cradle-to-grave welfare state, and many of the welfare programs we currently have.
The founding fathers clearly had in mind that the government do much of the heavy lifting of society.
Now we learn who hasn’t read the Federalist Papers.
And I have said before that it is government regulation that keeps monopolies from ruining private competition.
And we learn who got the public school education. (I got mine back when teachers were apolitical, when the National Education Association was still a professional organization)
What we have in America today is far closer to fascism than it is to socialism.
At last a glimmer! The fascist form of socialism occurs when a government isn’t strong enough to take over companies’ ownership, and must content itself with merely running them by regulation. Hitler and Mussolini would have loved to own the means of production, but they came to power in an already industrialized state and had to compromise, where Lenin had a non-industrial clean slate in Russia.
Socialism is when government takes over business and begins to run businesses. This certainly has not been the trend …
‘Compliance officers’ and a trillion dollars worth of takeovers. QED
I guess most here are too young to know what it was like before we got the notion that we should privatize everything.
Good sir, it doesn’t sound like age has much to do with it.
Jeeves (Steven Fry) explains why many Brits look down on Americans.
“When they mock America for its supposed lack of knowledge, irony or sophistication, they are revealing nothing but the pathetic inadequacy and inferiority complex of the British. ”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/3371819/Stephen-Fry-attacks-sneering-anti-Americanism.html
Any plan for fundamental changes to energy production must have a temporal and technical coherence. To talk of bankrupting an industry would seem to indicate that neither exists. If I were an American I would be very wary of voting for this man.
The world views the Bush administration as disastrous, and is terribly afraid of McCain’s continuation of imperial war policies.
Indeed. Much of the rest of the world cannot conceive of occupying Iraq and leaving it free and democratic. Of rebuilding the country at excessive cost and not demand one penny in payment. Of not making off with the oil. Because they would if they were us.
We call that one “projection”.
And I daresay the very concept is disconcerting. They would rather see the US as a run-of-the-mill imperialist state. It’s their comfort zone.
Ah, but where is our empire? So they try to invent a false one for us. They call it “economic imperialism” or “cultural imperialism” or “environmental imperialism” or some other such meaningless nonsense.
They cannot understand us, and they are made uncomfortable by what they cannot understand: This strange, young power that gives without taking, sacrifices without recompense, whose “national interest” IS freedom. If only we had some understandable motive! Something ancient, and visceral. Something with which to identify! Something to look down on, to feel morally superior to!
They are far more comfortable with the risible concept that America (or at least the better half of it) yearns and conspires to embark on mad world conquest than they are with the uncomfortable reality. (And so are over a third of our own citizens, as it turns out. The fools.)
Of course you all are judging by your country’s criteria, but please be aware that history is something that is written outside frontiers. Do not wear pink glasses.
Ah, the things they write. (How quaint!) It is like the story of the blind men and the elephant . . . some are more charitable in their interpretations than others.
I was wondering what the future of America was likely to be from tomorrow, so I repaired to my study and commenced reading ‘The Rise and fall of the Roman Empire.’ The barbarians where always at the Roman gates, but they let themselves in when they stumbled across the key of stupidity! Today that key is called the popular vote!
Mike McMillan (23:50:07) : Har! Har! (And Hear! Hear!)
evanjones (00:34:57) :
I am curious, what other country has over 250 army bases in foreign countries?
If China did that, how would you characterise it?
Imperial comes naturally for China.
And you are really deluded if you think that Irak is now a democracy or will remain a democracy. History tells us that democracies are not suites cut out and worn on nations, but spontaneously evolve when the conditions are ripe. What Irak has now is a US protectorate ( like the old roman and byzantine and UK ones) which will evolve into another overt dictatorship as is the rule in the moslem states of the region once the US leaves, which it will whoever wins this election. They have a long way to go to evolve into democracies.
I am curious, what other country has over 250 army bases in foreign countries?
I am curious, what would any “traditional power” be doing with those bases?
The only one of those bases that we would not immediately remove on request is Gitmo!
We are an odd cove, are we not?
If China did that, how would you characterise it?
It depends entirely on what they did with them and if they removed them upon request.
Imperial comes naturally for China.
The last time they actually took anything over by force was 1950. And Tibet had been a part of China before. They withdrew from North Korea after 1953. And even the 1978 Vietnam incursion was punitive; they never intended to occupy the place even had they won. They’d take over Taiwan if they could get away with it, but they consider that an internal matter, as well.
I am not too worried about China’s territorial ambitions.
Hey Pamela, what is it like there in Obama’s fantasy land, where working in difficult conditions mining gold that other people wanted and were willing to pay for is identical to writing those same people checks from taxpayers?
A world where the Carter Presidency never happened, and where the 18% mortgage rates and 10% unemployment could just be disregarded, even though that is what happened the last time Obama’s ideas were tried and there was a Senate supermajority of Democrats, a Democrat president, and a Democrat congress?
According to Pamela, the important thing is to not think about that.