10/31 NEWS: See updated graphs here
UPDATED: 10/22/08 The new images below are even closer
Watching arctic sea ice rebound this year has been exciting, more so since a few predictions and expeditions predicated on a record low sea ice this past summer failed miserably. I’ve spent a lot of time this month looking at the graph of sea ice extent from the IARC-JAXA website, which plots satellite derived sea-ice extent. However, there is another website that also plots the same satellite derived data, the Nansen Environmental and Remote Sensing Center of Bergen Norway, and they have an added bonus: a standard deviation shaded area. For those that don’t know what standard deviation is, here is a brief explanation from Wiki
…standard deviation remains the most common measure of statistical dispersion, measuring how widely spread the values in a data set are. If many data points are close to the mean, then the standard deviation is small; if many data points are far from the mean, then the standard deviation is large. If all data values are equal, then the standard deviation is zero.
In a nutshell, you could say that any data point that falls within the standard deviation area would be considered “within normal variances” for the data set. That said, current sea ice extent and area data endpoints (red line) are both approaching the edge of the standard deviation (gray shading) for both data sets. Here is sea ice area:
Click for a larger image
And here is sea ice extent:
Click for a larger image
Extent has a bit further to go than area, and of course it is possible that the slope will flatten and it may not reach the SD gray area. It’s also possible it may continue on the current trend line. Only nature knows for certain. A complete presentation from Nansen is on this page which is well worth bookmarking.
What I find particularly interesting is the graph comparing the 2008, 2007, and 2006 sea ice extent. It appears 2008 extent has already bested 2006 extent:

with a hat tip to commenter Patrick Henry
Discover more from Watts Up With That?
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.


Looks like the polar bears may not have to swim to Iceland today. This ice “bridge” from Greenland to Iceland, showing in the map below, could have been partly as a result of the recent “Icelandic low” pressure. It will be interesting to see if this is an early sign of a quick recovery on that side of the ice.
http://iabp.apl.washington.edu/maps_daily_ncepice.html
Color code showing at least 50% concentration. Curious no other site is depicting this.
Glenn (17:26:35) :
Looks like the polar bears may not have to swim to Iceland today. This ice “bridge” from Greenland to Iceland, showing in the map below, could have been partly as a result of the recent “Icelandic low” pressure. It will be interesting to see if this is an early sign of a quick recovery on that side of the ice.
http://iabp.apl.washington.edu/maps_daily_ncepice.html
Color code showing at least 50% concentration. Curious no other site is depicting this.
Not so much a bridge as part of an incomplete stepping stone.
http://iup.physik.uni-bremen.de:8084/amsr/GreenlandSea_visual.png
Lector (16:31:11) :
This drives me crazy. I know for fact that the polar ice is returning with a vengeance. I have seen the satellite pictures and need no further convincing. Yet somehow the MSM is still running stories about the poor polar bears that are dying off because they can’t find enough ice. I know this isn’t true but today I see another story about it.
Female polar bears den up about now and hibernate until about April so extra ice between now and then won’t exactly help them.
Pamela Gray,
“In my humble opinion, to bring it up here was unmanly and callous.”
Unmanly? Callous? Isn’t that a contradiction in terms to most feminists? I thought to be a man was to be callous? Anyway, I see that patronizing is a strategy used by hypocrites. Do you feel better now?
“If it was meant to gather like souls around your sentiments about weather or climate, it falls way short of our focus on data and scientific discussions.”
Well, not exactly. Buy does it really mattter Pamela? Besides I was just stating facts. If you don’t want the truth to skew the focus on your messed up reality, than just ignore it.
“There was a time when such topics were not shared in mixed audiences.”
Since when was population control not relevant to the CO2 debate? Also, a ‘mixed’ audience would ‘naturally’ produce a ‘difference’ in shared opinion. If you don’t like it, perhaps you should find a web site that allows only ‘like souls’. This way you could all complain while being in agreement with one another.
Tom in Florida (15:16:38) :
Phil: “it’s just an arbitrary reference point, like choosing the melting point of ice to be 0ºC! ”
However the designation of the melting point of ice as 0 C doesn’t change depending on the time period you choose.
No but if I use absolute zero as my reference it’s 273, if I use the triple point of mercury as the standard it’s 38.8…. It’s the standard that’s changed, that’s the point!
I would see that differently. Just because it was a period “that didn’t change much” by no means does it make it normal or a standard to measure against, unless you clearly state that what you are measuring is simply different and that the difference doesn’t prove a thing. But this is not the case in comparing sea ice graphs. The period is used not to show a change but to show change from normal. Clearly a difference to me.
That’s just your paranoia, it’s just a change, not a statement of normalcy.
Phil.:
‘Miniscule,’ according to my dictionary, is “a nonstandard spelling of minuscule.” Sort of like using two L’s instead of one in many words. [Nonstandard =/= improper.]
This is getting to be fun, so…
It is improper grammar to use “no-one” in place of “no one.”
Neener.
Smokey (19:17:21) :
Phil.:
By the way why is it that no-one here can spell the word ‘minuscule’?
‘Miniscule,’ according to my dictionary, is “a nonstandard spelling of minuscule.” Sort of like using two L’s instead of one in many words. [Nonstandard =/= improper.]
In English ‘minuscule’ is the correct form and ‘miniscule’ isn’t a correct form. Just like the ‘double Ls’, such as in ‘modeller’, standard English spelling.
This is getting to be fun, so…
It is improper grammar to use “no-one” in place of “no one.”
Actually it’s not, in English ‘no-one’ is the correct spelling (‘no one’ is an alternative)!
Neener.
Not in my dictionary?
Is there an ice bridge to Iceland from Greenland, already?
H/t V. Guerrini.
=============================
Because it requires a totalitarian state. Are you willing to give up all your freedom?
Phil. (18:39:51) :
Glenn (17:26:35) :
Looks like the polar bears may not have to swim to Iceland today. This ice “bridge” from Greenland to Iceland, showing in the map below, could have been partly as a result of the recent “Icelandic low” pressure. It will be interesting to see if this is an early sign of a quick recovery on that side of the ice.
http://iabp.apl.washington.edu/maps_daily_ncepice.html
Color code showing at least 50% concentration. Curious no other site is depicting this.
Not so much a bridge as part of an incomplete stepping stone.
http://iup.physik.uni-bremen.de:8084/amsr/GreenlandSea_visual.png
***************************
Some of that “stone” shows 75% concentration. Watch how I can make that all go away completely with another map:
http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/test/print.sh?fm=10&fd=24&fy=2008&sm=10&sd=24&sy=2008
Guess I was wrong about no one else showing the ice bridge:
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/NEWIMAGES/arctic.seaice.some.000.png
What is the is the NSIDC doing with the Antarctic data?
Oct 19, there’s a big dip
Oct 22, the dip diappears
http://klimakatastrophe.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/nsidc-changes1.gif
Regarding the baseline period, for the purposes of measuring anomalies to determine trends, changing the baseline period has no effect.
However, in this example, we are not estimating trends from anomalies, we are estimating standard deviation of a series. In this case, to get the best estimate of standard deviation, you need to use the maximum length of the best quality data you have available. In this case, using 1979-2007 is “correct” whereas 1979-2000 would be wrong – arbitrarily throwing away data results in a less accurate estimate of s.d. – so in this specific example it is far from an issue of simply a changing baseline.
Nonstationarity is a separate issue, but without a clear quantification of nonstationarity (if it even exists) the longest baseline is still the correct one.
George E. Smith (11:37:16) :
I refer the gentleman to my earlier answer. Look in previous posts for evidence that it was not a global event. rather than retrace my steps heres a link to good ol’ wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warm_Period
You can do the rest yourself, look at high resolution proxy papers etc.
The French word is “minuscule”, and it is derived from the Latin “minusculus”.
Therefore, in English the correct term is “minuscule”, not miniscule.
Mary Hinge (04:22:14) You should get out of the habit of referring people to Wikipedia on climate related matters. The peculiar manner in which William Connolley has moderated the section ridicules the idea of distributed intelligence. Climate on Wiki is perverted.
Sorry, ‘struth.
===========
REPLY: Yes, having witnessed Connolley’s heavy hand myself, I’ll have to agree. He bullies page authors into submission by continually deleted references or concepts he doesn’t like. – Anthony
Phil: That’s just your paranoia, it’s just a change, not a statement of normalcy.”
The original post by Flanagan is:
“So you can include the 2000-2007 years which are way below the 79-2000 average to make it look like it’s “going to normal again”, while actually it’s going back to the 2000-2007 average.”
Seems to me that Flanagan is either using or accusing someone else of using the 79-2000 average as “normal”. It has always been my objection to refer to any arbitrary time period as “normal”. That period of arctic ice coverage is almost always used in a way to either describe or insinuate what should be normal.
( I hope my spelling is right this time, certinly wouldnet want to iritate any one agin.)
Jeff Alberts (in regards to population control)
US tax dollars and the passed legislation increases funding to the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) .
http://thesop.org/index.php?article=12773
Democrats are setting up a public care health plan that provides all essential services, including abortion.
http://americanpowerblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/will-obama-health-care-plan-cover-late.html
What about permits to have a baby under the arm of carbon offsets?
Open your eyes man, population control is already here.
kim (07:18:25) :
It was not a reference as such but just a pointer to look at the subject through more recent enlightened eyes rather than the older cataract ridden ones that still think that the MWP was a long lasting global event. AsI mentioned I have given references in previous posts.
Since when was population control not relevant to the CO2 debate?
The problem, Rich, is that you are deliberately conflating two completely separate issues, that of population control, as practiced in China and which is mandatory, and that of reproductive choice here in the U.S. Regardless of what you think about the issue of birth control, it is disingenuous of you to conflate those two issues.
The issue of birth control in fact has no bearing whatsoever on climate issues, and I would argue that if you you want to debate that issue it is you, not Pamela, who should go elsewhere.
“Attempts to show that we are creating a problem with our CO2 output would need to produce evidence that the burning of the total fossil fuel reserve, raising atmospheric CO2 to maybe 3 times its current level and the subsequent 300 times smaller decrease in the alkalinity of the oceans…”
A few days ago I attended a speaking event in Johannsburg where work from a doctoral thesis was presented. The 400 page work quantifies and trends in energy use. It then examines peak oil, peak natural gas, peak coal, peak biomass, renewables and peak uranium, in short, peak energy, which occurs in roughly 2050. After that there is an inexorable reduction in energy production.
He sums the CO2 emissions produced including counting an estimation of the doubling of all discoveries made so far of every form of carbon and nuclear energy.
Peak Coal is the last to occur in about 2070.
By his calculation, even with the present increasing rates of carbon use, at no time does the atmospheric CO2 level reach 450 ppm. There is simply not enough carbon available to ever double the CO2 level as is so often (and casually) mentioned.
His CO2 absorption model does not include the fact that we are entering a time of cooling that may significantly increase the amount taken up by the oceans. Fairbridge’s and Langscheidt’s works are still poorly reported so I can’t fault him for that but time will take care of that.
It was incorrectly claimed in a post above that the oceans are still warming. Not so. During solar cycle 24 we should get a repeat of the 1992 cold snap which saw a brief reduction of CO2 in the northern hemisphere at high latitudes.
Thus even his forecast CO2 max of +/- 440 ppm may never be reached by 2050. After that, there isn’t enough Carbon left at current rate-of-increase-in-use to drive it up further.
His concern is that unless the existing energy reserves are used to build the renewable energy and efficient infrastructures we will run into a long period of energy poverty.
I have a couple of quibbles with the presentation. He does not note that the population is set to peak at about the same times as peak energy which means the energy available per person will stay roughly the same thereafter, not decrease. Another is that the shale oil was not included because of the energy and monetary investment required may not be worth it until the other sources are depleted and the CO2 level already in decline. Maybe, maybe not.
The audience felt that renewables were underestimated in potential. There already are several RE technologies that give a positive return on energy invested in creating them. Black silicon for PV is an interesting one.
An interesting Arctic ice map for today, from the IUP UNIVERSITY OF BREMEN:
http://www.iup.physik.uni-bremen.de:8084/
Quite a discrepancy from this and AMSR in the Kara Sea.
http://www.iup.physik.uni-bremen.de:8084/
“Click this button”
Bruce Cobb,
“Regardless of what you think about the issue of birth control, it is disingenuous of you to conflate those two issues.”
You are right. It doesn’t really matter what I think. But to say that I am deliberately conflating the issue is nonsense.
Abortion is abortion guy. You can label it ‘forced’ or ‘choice’ but either way, it doesn’t matter because the end result is the same. It is authorization which is used in part to slow the growing size of the population. Simple enough?
“The issue of birth control in fact has no bearing whatsoever on climate issues”
Why is this so difficult for you to comprehend? In part, what this means to ‘greenies’ is fewer people to use the earths resources, fewer people to create emission, fewer people to pollute and fewer people to destroy the planet. There is your climate correlation.
If you remove authorized abortion, how much larger would our population be by 2070? How much faster would our resources dwindle without this mechanism?
Again, Bruce, it doesn’t matter where you stand morally on the issue. I am just stating facts. Perhaps I should take your advice and go elsewhere for something profound, unless you feel like trying again?
“The truth is we don’t know enough about the effects of increasing the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere to run a global experiment .”
If CO2 drives global temperature, why does CO2 lag global temperature at all measured scales?
Long term cycle lags of ~800 years are reported for the Vostok ice cores.
For shorter term cycles, CO2 lags temperature by ~9 months.
Details at
http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/carbon_dioxide_in_not_the_primary_cause_of_global_warming_the_future_can_no/