Claim: atmosphere heats the oceans, melts Antarctic ice shelf

From Penn State

Underlying ocean melts ice shelf, speeds up glacier movement

Warm ocean water, not warm air, is melting the Pine Island Glacier’s floating ice shelf in Antarctica and may be the culprit for increased melting of other ice shelves, according to an international team of researchers.

“We’ve been dumping heat into the atmosphere for years and the oceans have been doing their job, taking it out of the air and into the ocean,” said Sridhar Anandakrishnan, professor of geosciences, Penn State. “Eventually, with all that atmospheric heat, the oceans will heat up.”

The researchers looked at the remote Pine Island Glacier, a major outlet of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet because it has rapidly thinned and accelerated in the recent past.

“It has taken years and years to do the logistics because it is so remote from established permanent bases,” said Anandakrishnan.

Pine Island Glacier or PIG lies far from McMurdo base, the usual location of American research in Antarctica. Work done in the southern hemisphere’s summer, December through January 2012-13, included drilling holes in the ice to place a variety of instruments and using radar to map the underside of the ice shelf and the bottom of the ocean. Penn State researchers did the geophysics for the project and the research team’s results are reported today (Sept. 13) in Science.

The ice shelf is melting more rapidly from below for a number of reasons. The oceans are warmer than they have been in the past and water can transfer more heat than air. More importantly, the terrain beneath the ice shelf is a series of channels. The floating ice in the channel has ample room beneath it for ocean water to flow in. The water melts some of the ice beneath and cools. If the water remained in the channel, the water would eventually cool to a point where it was not melting much ice, but the channels allow the water to flow out to the open ocean and warmer water to flow in, again melting the ice shelf from beneath.

“The way the ocean water is melting the ice shelf is a deeply non-uniform way,” said Anandakrishnan. “That’s going to be more effective in breaking these ice shelves apart.”

The breaking apart of the ice shelf in the channels is similar to removing an ice jam from a river. The shelf was plugging the channel, but once it is gone, the glacier moves more rapidly toward the sea, forming more ice shelf, but removing large amounts of ice from the glacier.

The melting of floating ice shelves does not contribute to sea level rise because once they are in the water, the ice shelves have already contributed to sea level rise. However, most of the Antarctic glaciers are on land, and rapidly adding new ice shelf material to the floating mass will increase sea level rise.

“Antarctica is relatively stable, but that won’t last forever, said Anandakrishnan. “This is a harbinger of what will happen.”

The researchers believe that the interaction of the ocean beneath the ice shelf and melting of the ice shelf is an important variable that should be incorporated into the sea level rise models of global warming. Other recent research shows that without the channelized underbelly of the ice shelf and glacier, melting would be even more rapid.

“The Antarctic has been relatively quiet as a contributor to sea rise,” said Anandakrishnan. “What this work shows is that we have been blind to a huge phenomenon, something that will be as big a player in sea level rise in the next century as any other contributor.”

###

Also working on this project were Tim Stanton, research professor, and William J. Shaw, research assistant professor, Department of Oceanography, Naval Postgraduate School; Martin Truffer, professor of physics, Geophysical Institute, University of Alaska, Fairbanks; Hugh Corr, British Antarctic Survey; Leo E. Peters, research associate, Kiya L. Riverman, graduate student, both of Penn State; Robert Bindschadler, emeritus scientist, NASA Goddard Space Flight Center; and David M. Holland, professor of mathematics, New York University.

The National Science Foundation, NASA and the Natural Environment Research Council, UK, supported this work.

0 0 votes
Article Rating

Discover more from Watts Up With That?

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

101 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
gerrydorrian66
September 13, 2013 9:06 pm

At least when scientists said the Arctic would be free of ice by this September it was actually a scientific statement, ie it was testable and falsifiable. This just sounds like more waffle.

csanborn
September 13, 2013 9:11 pm

Who pays the salaries of these people, and why?

dp
September 13, 2013 9:13 pm

Magic air – it can heat water but not melt ice. But it can heat water enough to melt ice. Maybe if we had more of that free heat we could do without coal.
Oh wait – Penn State, the silly school. Never mind.

Joe Chang
September 13, 2013 9:17 pm

Well at least they are not saying warm water from the “missing heat” sinks into the deep ocean beneath the less warm (colder) water. The would almost be as hilarious as the first GI Joe movies, with the ice mountains sinking into the deep at the end.

Dr. Bob
September 13, 2013 9:18 pm

I would think that this research group would try to discuss what the situation at the PIG glacier was like 20 years or more ago before the ocean supposedly cause unnatural melting, compare that situation to today’s situation, plot ocean temperature trends, and at least have data showing some cause to the “observed” effect. Without prior data of this site, there is no reason to suspect that this is not a natural situation or cycle. This reports only value so far is documentation of a situation and conditions in present time that can be used for comparison to future conditions. Anything else is idle speculation, not science.

September 13, 2013 9:24 pm

I am not a scientist. I lurk here quite often.
The atmosphere is warming the water enough to melt the ice….but the air temp is still not high enough to melt the ice? Isn’t the air temp lower than the water temp at that latitude? And higher water temps? I thought that there was missing heat. When did the ocean temps rise like that?
Did they forget this: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/01/22/surprise-theres-an-active-volcano-under-antarctic-ice/
It seems to be in the same area.
Volcano
https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=-74.6+-97&ie=UTF8&ll=-74.590108,-97.03125&spn=19.291276,82.353516&t=h&z=4&om=0
Glacier
https://maps.google.com/maps?oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&q=pine+island+glacier&ie=UTF-8&ei=ouMzUryLONTC4APp4oH4BA&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAg
Am I missing something?

nc
September 13, 2013 9:34 pm

So Pine Glacier is how big compared to total ice volume and I understand total ice volume is increasing not decreasing. Penn State glad you folks are on top of it.

george e. smith
September 13, 2013 9:34 pm

So Penn State is not bound by the second aw of thermodynamics.
I once worked for a company that said they weren’t either.
And “heat” energy is transported from the atmosphere to the ocean by; what mechanism was that now ?? Oh; convection. Hot air rises, and cool air from altitude, that has sucked out the latent heat of evaporation of moisture, and that floats down into the ocean ! Eureka !

September 13, 2013 9:35 pm

The ice shelf is melting more rapidly from below for a number of reasons.
They don’t have any evidence this is the case.
The logic is that the air almost never gets above 0C, so the primary cause must be warmer water melting the undersides of the ice. However, this ignores sublimation which varies with solar insolation and albedo but can occur well below zero.
In this picture you clearly see large dark areas on the surface of the Pine Island Glacier, which would facilitate surface melt/sublimation.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Pigshelf.jpg

September 13, 2013 9:38 pm

“The oceans are warmer than they have been in the past and water can transfer more heat than air.” I’m confused. Is not the measured evidence that the North Atlantic has some warming, while the Pacific and Indian and Southern have about none? I refer to Bob Tisdale’s graphs from his new book, or the video at

Truthseeker
September 13, 2013 9:38 pm

Isn’t Antarctic ice extent increasing? Doesn’t this simple fact make all of their waffling theory look really stupid?

Joe Bastardi
September 13, 2013 9:38 pm

Meanwhile, the total picture at the antarctic was one of record high ice

September 13, 2013 9:42 pm

The atmosphere cannot significantly heat the oceans
RealClimate admits doubling CO2 could only heat the oceans 0.002ºC at most
http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2012/09/realclimate-admits-doubling-co2-could.html

Carlyle
September 13, 2013 9:43 pm

What proportion of Antarctica does this affect? A tiny percentage as I understand it. What about the huge growth in Antarctic sea ice? How is it that this expanding ice sheet is forming over a thousand kilometres out from the continent if the ocean water is warmer than previously?

September 13, 2013 9:45 pm

Does anybody we know of who might have a vested interest – i.e. making a bu**load of money off government grants – in the global warming charade work at Penn State?

Luther Wu
September 13, 2013 9:45 pm

State pen, not Penn…

CRS, DrPH
September 13, 2013 9:49 pm

Folks, the CAGW argument is evaporating faster than water on a sidewalk in Arizona in July! However, these folks are tenacious. Be sure to watch for a proliferation of stories, articles and new claims about the “evil twin” of global warming, i.e. Ocean Acidification. This will be all they have left very soon. The melting of Arctic ice makes it worse, you know…
http://www.scienceworldreport.com/articles/9460/20130913/arctic-ocean-acidifying-far-faster-projected-ice-melts.htm

September 13, 2013 9:49 pm

If you zoom up the picture linked above you can see the cracks in the glacier start at lateral moraines. A lateral moraine is where material eroded from the valley walls is deposited on the surface of the glacier, decreasing its albedo.
Strong evidence IMO that surface melt is causing iceberg calving from this icesheet.

September 13, 2013 9:54 pm

It’s all about the money. The politicians want a crisis to capitalizes on, and they pay government money to obtain studies claiming crisis. The pseudo-scientists who want the money produce studies that claim crisis. It’s that simple.

Rockyspoon
September 13, 2013 9:58 pm

That silly ice must have an extremely low melting sensitivity–no statistically-significant change in global temperatures for 202 months yet manifests itself as less ice in the Antartic (and apparently creating more ice in the Arctic).
I wish all that heat hadn’t migrated south–my tomatoes never did get ripe this summer.
Now, how to correct this polar imbalance?

kadaka (KD Knoebel)
September 13, 2013 10:00 pm

Moderators/Anthony,
Here is the proper link for the piece, not the “news feed” that was used:
http://news.psu.edu/story/287448/2013/09/12/research/underlying-ocean-melts-ice-shelf-speeds-glacier-movement

September 13, 2013 10:03 pm

“We’ve been dumping heat into the atmosphere for years” said Sridhar Anandakrishnan
We haven’t been dumping heat; the actual heat imparted directly from human activity is, in a relative sense, completely trivial. We’ll assume he meant we’ve been “dumping” CO2. The problem for Anandarishnan was summarized by The Economist: “The mismatch between rising greenhouse-gas emissions and not-rising temperatures [15 year temperature stall] is among the biggest puzzles in climate science just now.” Warmists claim without evidence that it’s the ocean that’s absorbing the missing heat, but at the same time they are contending that a cold ocean is responsible for the temperature stall: http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/sciencefair/2013/08/28/global-warming-hiatus/2718147/
So, which is it, the missing heat has heated the ocean, or a cold ocean has cooled the air??

a jones
September 13, 2013 10:08 pm

Some years ago when there was last excitement about the Pine Island glacier I wrote to the Times of London, which for a wonder published my letter, pointing out that if you have a glacier above a volcanically active region, as in this case, the geothermal heat below tends to melt the ice above. As happens all along the Antarctic peninsula.
Kindest Regards

CodeTech
September 13, 2013 10:13 pm

Eric, that’s a great quote right there:

The mismatch between rising greenhouse-gas emissions and not-rising temperatures [15 year temperature stall] is among the biggest puzzles in climate science just now.

It’s not a big puzzle OUTSIDE of climate “science” right now. So why would a fairly good sized community of presumably intelligent people completely forget everything they were taught about thermodynamics in order to be puzzled by a simple, easy to comprehend fact?
That fact is: CO2 does not drive climate. Never has, doesn’t now, never will.
One would expect that by now the people who are getting PAID to figure this stuff out would figure out what my 8 year old already knows. Their hypothesis is wrong. Time to move on to some other line of work. I hear Wendy’s and McDonalds both accept former climate “scientists”, unfortunately they have to start at minimum wage and work their way up just like everyone else.

Eyal Porat
September 13, 2013 10:13 pm

This is amazing:
These people make assumptions about mechanisms they do not refer to or explain (i.e. the warming of the oceans by the atmosphere), then build their theory upon it. And voilla! we have a solution!
The simplest first grade test will tell them this is wrong. You cannot heat the oceans from above.
This is bad science and it really makes me saddened. And to see the degrees of these people… All professors… sigh.
Eyal

1 2 3 5