Europe bails on green energy

Dr. Benny Peiser at The Australian: Europe pulls the plug on its green future

pull the EU green plug

Slowly but gradually, Europe is awakening to a green energy crisis, an economic and political debacle that is entirely self-inflicted.

The mainstream media, which used to encourage the renewables push enthusiastically, is beginning to sober up too. With more and more cracks beginning to appear, many newspapers are returning to their proper role as the fourth estate, exposing the pitfalls of Europe’s green-energy gamble and opening their pages for thorough analysis and debate. Today, European media is full of news and commentary about the problems of an ill-conceived strategy that is becoming increasingly shaky and divisive.

As country after country abandons, curtails or reneges on once-generous support for renewable energy, Europe is beginning to realise that its green energy strategy is dying on the vine. Green dreams are giving way to hard economic realities.

From: The Australian http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/europe-pulls-the-plug-on-its-green-future/story-e6frg8y6-1226694405337

also here: http://www.thegwpf.org/benny-peiser-europe-pulls-plug-green-future/

(Note: for the pirates of pendant – image updated to show EU style plug – Anthony)

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153 thoughts on “Europe bails on green energy

  1. @Gene, Hugh quite right, we only have a budget of $00000000.00 for art and special effects here at WUWT.

    • Anthony, I guess I am guilty of pedantry, but this was something else. This visualisation of an independently powerful metaphor looked like a very funny charade, and I couldn’t help. It made me laugh, and I thank you for that.

  2. @ steve put this phrase into Google “Europe pulls the plug on its green future”, follow link. Opens the pay-wall.

  3. So . . . hundreds of billions of Euros have been squandered, wasted, flushed down the Great Greenie Composting Toilet because Public Policy in Europe was highjacked by a group of political power craving environmentalists and grubby, funding desperate scientists who realized their First Class ticket on the Fame and Gravy train could be realized by abject fear mongering about human influences on the climate.

    A disgraceful period in human history, one that will not be treated well by future historians.

    Think of how much human good, human happiness that money could have purchased.

    Think of how much real science, not the frothed up, torqued up, glued together hockey sticks or photo shopped polar bear pictures that currently disgraces the scientific community could have taken place if the science funding had not been hijacked by a small gang of morally vacuous scientists that are only good at creating hysteria and performing kindergarten level research.

  4. Maybe now we’ll get some sense here in the USA and pull the plug on renewable mandates and subsidies, so that electric rates can be taken back down to what they would have been without the renewables. (Sorry, mein Fuehrer, we need LOW electric rates, not “sky high” rates – to ease the burdens on low-income people and make our manufacturing competitive – so that jobs can finally be created.)

    Of course, it will be necessary to make the renewables people clean up the environmental mess they’ve made, at their expense – removing the turbines and solar arrays, cleaning up the pollution from them, restoring the habitats and landscapes they’ve destroyed.. We taxpayers and victims of their idiocy should not have to pick up the tab for that – they should.

  5. Don’t ever forget than many of the folks who initiated these grandiose failures made out like bandits when the taxpayer and investment funds were rolling in. Many are probably enjoying early retirements at levels of luxury that most WUWT readers will never experience.

  6. hmmmm . . the GAO has numbers, but the White House seems to prefer appeasing Gaia.

    “President Obama’s campaign promises of millions of green jobs haven’t materialized. A draft report by the Government Accountability Office found that the Labor Department’s $500 million program to train people for green jobs produced just 55 percent of its targeted job placements—and most of those jobs were not in the solar or biofuels industries.”

    Only a true, hard core, committed, Kool Aide chugging Greene could consider that to be a successful program.

    http://blogs.the-american-interest.com/wrm/2013/08/08/the-brown-jobs-boom/

    Kafka would be so proud of modern environmentalism.

  7. Energy prices in Britain have risen $500 per year in order to subsidize a pre-industrial technology – wind power. Much of these subsidies go to rich landowners and foreign power companies with investors guaranteed returns of >10% per year for 20 years. It is complete madness. Even if we were to cover the whole of Wales and Cornwall in wind farms it would still only meet total electricity demand 70% of the time. The rest of the time when the wind doesn’t blow we would either freeze in darkness, or else fire up “spare” fossil fuel plants to blast CO2 into the atmosphere. This process is the same as accelerating and braking your car while driving your car. Fuel efficiency is blown away and gas prices rocket ! I estimate the net price of wind+gas ay 4 times more than nuclear(or coal) fuel costs.

    • I must apologise to Anthony and to everybody who came late and missed the fun. I did not want to be mean, but because I was, inadvertently, now we have a new graphic with a Schuko plug, which is decidedly European. It came to life as an American plug next to a wall outlet of the same provenance bearing a European flag.

  8. Surely there OUGHT to be a very important European politician who WANTS to believe that CAGW is a hoax.

  9. Re: failing green parasitic companies, Germany’s Solarworld only yesterday made its stockholders accept a whopping 95% cut in the value of their holdings, while creditors had to take a 55% haircut, to avoid immediate bankruptcy. Still the market is doubtful whether the outfit will survive.
    We’re clearly in the endgame stage of the green cargo-cult. There aren’t enough lampposts.

  10. The plug looks pretty much like a Schuko plug, pretty much universal as a 3-pin plug in Europe. Except the UK of course as we here know better.

  11. This is sick and twisted. From the full article:

    In fact, German CO2 emissions have been rising for two years in a row as coal is experiencing a renaissance………………….

    Almost 20 per cent of gas power plants in Germany have become unprofitable and face shutdown as renewables flood the electricity grid with preferential energy. To avoid blackouts, the government has had to subsidise uneconomic gas and coal power stations so that they can be used as back-up when the sun is not shining, the wind does not blow and renewables fail to generate sufficient electricity.

    [My bolding]

  12. It looks like the plug has cylindric pins, not flat as the US version, so it is an European grounded version. Due to the colour, this looks like the (new) power cords used for the electical heating of car engines. They used to be black.

  13. There’s opportunity here, m’boys–

    Kit Carruthers can buy one of these retired wind turbines and set it up next to his house in Scotland for domestic electricity generation.

    One turbine down, thousands upon thousands to go.

    What’s not to like?

  14. I’ve been trying to warn people of the idiocy of “green energy” for decades. I’ve written articles, I’ve argued with people, I complained to our politicians.

    One can see the light just from the physics!

    All for naught, or so it has seemed.

  15. The author of the article is correct. A free press is supposed to be the last line of defense against oppressive and tyrannical governments when the checks and balances between the Legislative, Executive and Juducial branches of government are corrupt and steal citizens’ rights of privacy, property and individual freedoms.

    For too many decades, the press has simply acted as the government’s forth branch of propaganda. The alternative energy debacle is just a manifestation of the MSM’s complicity in destroying many countries’ industrial competitiveness, productivity, efficiency and economic growth by failing to report truthfully on governments’ destructive alternative energy programs, which have further impoverished the poor and obliterated job and economic growth.

    More and more citizens-but still far too few– are finally seeing the gigantic disparity between to Utopia painted by the wordsmiths and talking heads of the MSM and the hell which they are being forced to endure.

    It’s encouraging to see that some MSM journalists are finally starting to accept their huge responsibility of reporting the truth rather than simply advocating a political agenda.

  16. Y’all are dangerously ignorant of the point.

    Solar and wind and biomass are RENEWABLE (meaning made from pixy dust and good intentions) and are vital in the war to save the planet from high standards of living and functioning brains.

    In all seriousness, I have some investment advice. Buy shares in oil companies, chicken farms, rope maufacturers, and mines of element 82. All of these items will surely see explosive growth in demand.

  17. If you haven’t done it yet …and if you are into trading stocks start shorting enviro stocks in Europe and the USA over the next year as they disintegrate. This dance is over but the music just hasn’t been shut off yet. BBC pension investments and others that placed large bets on enviro stocks are screwed.

  18. Gene Selkov says:
    August 9, 2013 at 9:48 am
    The plug on the picture is American, though :)

    TalentKeyHole Mole says:
    August 9, 2013 at 10:02 am
    Hello,
    The plug in the image; a standard USA type, not European 2-pole type.

    Looks like a pair of ‘pins’ (EU/UK/??) and not ‘blades’ (as used in the USA) guys.

    Plug body also looks oversize (to better protect EU/UK fingers from 220V AC Mains voltage?); not right for our continent either. There are standards that more than likely govern this too, link.

    USA two-blade plug also has one blade wider than the other (making them what is called “polarized” with the wider pin the neutral connection); another incongruity.

    And – our (US) “NEMA 1″ two-blade plugs normally have a hole at the far end of each blade – missing in the photo above as well.

    The verdict: a two-pin, non-USA plug …

    .

  19. John Arthur says: August 9, 2013 at 10:58 am “The plug looks pretty much like a Schuko plug, pretty much universal as a 3-pin plug in Europe. Except the UK of course as we here know better.”

    Yep. CEE 7/16, 7/17, 7/5, 7/4 Schuko

  20. As I have been commenting here and there for some time, the Invisible Hand ensures that you will pay the real price. For everything.

  21. A good example of why govts should be the court of last , not first, resort to solve a problem.
    1) Govts listen to voters, who can easily be swayed by such things as “An Inconvenient Truth”
    2) Govts are composed of second-rate lawyers and backslappers
    3) Govts never look to see if the problem actually exists – as long a the voters are convinced there is a problem, then why should they fight the tide convincing them otherwise and getting un-elected as a result?
    4) Rush, rush,rush to pass some legislation that they can point to come election day, regardless of how stupid it might be. The voters will never know.
    5) By the time everything comes apart, I’ll be on Miami Beach , sipping mint juleps and banking my
    Congressional pension checks. Life is good and high electric bills are no problem for me.

  22. I cannot speak for the rest of Europe, but the green energy enthusiasts in the UK definitely took this pill – there is no other explanation for their incredible stupidity.

  23. And it was all completely, absolutely, patently, perfectly, 100% predictable. Only those who had willfully untethered themselves from reality could not have seen this coming.

  24. Gene Selkov says:
    August 9, 2013 at 9:48 am

    The plug on the picture is American, though :)

    In fact, if you look close, it is definitely not American. The prongs are cylindrical rather than flat, which appears in many European and East European outlets, but not in the US. See Glover’s Pocket Reference (4th ed.) pages 176-177.

  25. @ arthur4563 says:
    August 9, 2013 at 11:39 am

    5) By the time everything comes apart, I’ll be on Miami Beach , sipping mint juleps and banking my
    Congressional pension checks. Life is good and high electric bills are no problem for me.

    *********************************************************************
    Florida is a concealed carry state, with stand your ground laws. That congress critter should think again about retiring there. ;)

  26. Note: for the pirates of pendant – image updated to show EU style plug – Anthony

    But, but, but…the hand in the image appears to be that of a right-handed white male.

    Sexist, racist and sinistrophobic all-in-one. /s

    REPLY:
    Do I need to call in an air strike on pirates? -A

  27. A very very expensive “I told you so”. Do you think an apology or an “Oops, did we ever mess up” is coming?

    Nope, didn’t think ss either. Just a very heavy sigh on my part when I think of all my wated breath trying to discuss the greenie’s vision with a greenie. To repeat a previous comment – to think of what all that money could have done instead of lining a few pockets.

  28. JB Goode says:
    August 9, 2013 at 11:59 am

    About the plug
    Who said it is an electric plug in the first place?

    ===========

    Butt plug? Nah…. well maybe, depending on how you may look at it.

  29. It is ironic that the LAST people who should be trying solar are the northern Europeans. There simply is no sun there, or only a bit in summer, if they are lucky. I’m convinced it would work in the sub-tropics and tropics and the Sahara for example. This is where they should be investing Solar. Imaging a solar roof anywhere in Brazil for example, they would not need any outside energy source for the whole year. Ironically they have heaps of hydroelectric power too!

  30. “Slowly but gradually” was a poor start. It should have been “Slowly but inexorably” or something like that. (The rest was fine.)

  31. Now the next round of scammers will come up with the idea to form corporations to recycle the component parts of wind turbines and solar panels. The governments could pay them money to clean up the ‘visual blights’ on the landscape. And the money goes round and round…

  32. I have a different take on all this

    bum’s rush
    noun Slang.

    1. forcible and swift ejection from a place: When they began to cause a disturbance, they were given the bum’s rush.
    2. any rude or abrupt dismissal: He gave the pesky salesman the bum’s rush.

    .
    All the other online dictionaries had basically the same meanings given. But where I grew up “giving someone the bum’s rush” also meant
    3. buffaloing people into believing something and going along with it right away (and getting their money in many cases) out of sheer force of will, and before the people had a chance to think about it.

    I am growing into an understanding that the warmists knew they only had a limited amount of time to get everyone on board, before two things happened:

    A. The steep temperature slope flattened out
    B. The invoices began arriving and the people realized the cost was unsustainably high

    With A., they needed to be able to declare, “SEE? Our solutions are working!”

    With B., the needed to GET the money and programs in place and hope that policymakers would say, “Well, we’ve already put so much money into it already, so we should see it through.”

    HTF they expected for people to keep going on such an expensive, no-result policy until 2100 no one will ever know.

    But also, even with the 2. definition of “bum’s rush” given above, that is EXACTLY what they did with anyone who disagreed with them, to try to hustle us out of the auditorium before people could hear what we had to say. And after they tossed us unceremoniously out in the alley, they would go back to the podium and character assassinate us and our message.

    p.s. —– I would also add a sincere THANK YOU to the Mr Deep Throat of CLIMATEGATE, for his waking people up and getting people to consider that maybe “Hide the decline” and “Mike’s NATURE trick” meant they were being given the bum’s rush. People began to question, and we could not be where we are without Climategate.

    November 19th, 2009, a date which will live in infamy – among the warmists!

  33. _Jim on August 9, 2013 at 11:22 am

    The verdict: a two-pin, non-USA plug …

    If the two (flat) ground pins are ignored, yes …

  34. Are they getting the message? I don’t think so. Carbon taxes – easy way to raise revenue. Only a few days ago, the British PM attended at an off-shore windfarm which will cost us megabucks down the road. Our best coal fired powerstation is being partially converted to run on US wood pellets. The warmistas are still esconced in the Dept. of Energy and Climate Change. This war is not over by a long way. How can we service all the ‘renewable’ contracts govts. have signed on our behalf. Perhaps it’s time to wheel in the criminal law. There is an offence of obtaining pecuniary advantage (money) by deception. Personally, I would settle for a charge of treason but unfortunately, the death penalty for that has been abolished. Yes, I really feel that bitter to see how they have pushed my country down to say nothing of the huge energy bill I now face.

  35. And – our (US) “NEMA 1″ two-blade plugs normally have a hole at the far end of each blade…

    I’m curious: what’s the reason for those holes? Do they maybe pull out or sequester any lint or debris that may accumulate in the socket?

  36. Here’s a good article on why liquid biofuels can never work to replace petroleum products but also relates to wind/solar.

    http://www.au.af.mil/au/ssq/digital/pdf/spring_13/kiefer.pdf

    I disagree with the authors assumption that implies negative consequences for increased CO2 and greenhouse gases with respect to potential warming, which are not derived from his own work. The author’s area of expertise and knowledge is in the science of fuels not in atmospheric science.

    His knowledge and discussion on the science of fuels is solid

    I have always called the claim that corn ethanol produces less greenhouse gas emissions “the lie about the lie”.
    1. Corn used to make ethanol for fuel produces less so called greenhouse gas emissions=Lie number 1, looking at the entire life cycle and conversion to usable form.

    2. The suggestion that these emissions are pollution because they increase the temperature of the planet(as defined by our EPA) is lie number 2

  37. Oh dear. News just in.

    New paper finds CO2 emissions self-regulate as economic prosperity increases, without carbon taxes

    http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2013/08/new-paper-finds-co2-emissions-self.html

    ——————–
    “How does carbon dioxide emission change with the economic development? Statistical experiences from 132 countries”
    …A “first-rise-then-flat” relationship of carbon dioxide per capita and GDP per capita was found….”

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0959378013001052

  38. rogerknights says:
    August 9, 2013 at 12:40 pm
    And – our (US) “NEMA 1″ two-blade plugs normally have a hole at the far end of each blade…

    I’m curious: what’s the reason for those holes? Do they maybe pull out or sequester any lint or debris that may accumulate in the socket?

    _——————————-

    They are used as a detent to hold the plug in tighter (fits over bumps in the outlet) and or to place a locking device through to prohibit entry into an outlet if desired. Additionally, it cuts down on raw material cost of production.

    Regards Ed

  39. rogerknights says:
    August 9, 2013 at 12:40 pm
    And – our (US) “NEMA 1″ two-blade plugs normally have a hole at the far end of each blade…

    I’m curious: what’s the reason for those holes? Do they maybe pull out or sequester any lint or debris that may accumulate in the socket?

    _——————————-

    They are used as a detent to hold the plug in tighter (fits over bumps in the outlet) and or to place a locking device through to prohibit entry into an outlet if desired. Additionally, it cuts down on raw material cost of production.

    Regards Ed

  40. The plug in question is according to wikipedia a plug called CEE 7/4 (German “Schuko” 16 A/250 V earthed) It is also used in Albania, Austria, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Chile, Croatia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Indonesia, Iran, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Republic of Macedonia, Republic of Moldova, the Netherlands, Norway, Pakistan, Portugal, Romania, Russia,[37] Serbia, Slovenia, South Korea, Spain, Sweden, Turkey, Ukraine, and Uruguay

  41. That is NOT like any US plug I have ever seen. Looks more like an EU plug — which, BTW, is superior in design to the UK plug, and infinitely superior to the US plug.

    In fact, the only thing which is arguably inferior to the US plug is stripping half an inch of insulation off each wire with your teeth, w\twisting the ends, and shoving them into the socket.

  42. Green scam energy (wind, solar, and biofuel) does not work from an engineering or an economic, standpoint. The Economist has started to run articles that discuss the engineering and economic reasons why the green schemes do not work.

    The following is an overview of the problems with wind farms to illustrate the issues and the extra costs that make the green schemes economically not viable. The German wind farms average power generated is 20% of the nameplate capacity of the wind farm. The problem is the wind farm generates electric power from 0% to 100%, from 30% to 60%, from 20% to 40%, and so on of its nameplate power to average out at 20% of its name plate power. Power generated is at the wind speed to the third power, so wind farm power output is constantly and quickly varying anytime of the day. As electric power in grid must always be balanced, there is a practical absolute maximum wind power that can be handled by a typical large grid which is estimated to be around be around 10%. (Denmark has reached 20% however that is only possible as Denmark is a small country that is adjacent to Sweden that is also a small country that has a massive amount of hydro electric power. Furthermore Denmark has a massive amount of oil revenue to spend on subsidies. The Denmark example does not apply to the US, to the other EU countries, to India, or to China, and so on.)

    To adjust to rapidly varying wind farm power output single cycle natural gas power plants are used 40% efficiency as they can be turned on/off/on/off/and so on, rather than combine cycle natural gas power plants that have an efficiency of 60% but cannot be turned on/off/on/off. In many cases there would be less carbon dioxide emissions to install a combined cycle natural gas power plant where power is required (reducing transmission power losses) than to build a wind farm and install a single cycle natural gas power plant to be turned on/off/on/off to adjust for varying wind speed.

    The German problems with green energy illustrates some of the basic faults and hidden costs with the green energy scams (Economist, June 15, 2013)
    “The trouble is that most wind and solar power is generated a long way from the parts of the country where the nuclear power plants are to be shut-off…. Germany needs more than 4000 km of new transmission lines (William: High voltage AC lines, Very High voltage DC lines, and AC to DC convertors, very, very expensive, high voltage right aways required for the power lines, and losses of roughly 30% for power transmission) by 2022, of which less than 300 km have been built…”
    “A second problem is that … renewable energy are intermittent. The wind does not blow (William: German wind power average is 20% of installed capacity, power is a wind speed cubed so wind power constantly varies requiring other power sources to be turned on/off/on/off/on and so on) , sun does not shine (William: night and cloud days). Bulk electricity storage is still in its infancy (William: There is no scale able power storage option even if money grew on trees, the ball park cost for energy storage would triple or quadruple the cost of green energy, which is ridiculous, unthinkable, and not discussed)… so Germany still needs back-up capacity of conventional generation power (William: Power source that can be turned on when power is required). But because so much renewable power has come on stream ….. clean natural gas power plants are not viable (William: Natural gas power is viable if the state includes massive subsides to construct single cycle natural gas power plants, 40% efficiency, available to be turn on/off/on/off/on/off at the whim of the wind, in addition to subsides for wind farm, and subsides to construct high voltage power lines, and so on.) … Only aging dirty brown-coal power plants with low variable costs can complete.
    …. The result is a web of grotesque distortions. On sunny days Germany pushes its excess power in to the European grid at a loss. …. On cloudy days Germany relies ever more on brown coal. Last year its CO2 emissions rose. …. The cost of this mess is passed on to electricity users. Household fuel bills have gone up by 25% over the past three years, to 40%-50% above the EU average (William: And twice the US cost of electric power)…

  43. I wish I could agree ,

    The netherlands where the economy is on its lowest since decades and the government is cutting where ever they can ( the weak the old and the sick ) still they want to spend 4 billion euros for 4 windmill parks out in the north sea (in a fishing area).

    While we have an OVER capacity of electric and 2 high modern gas powerplants are out of order because of that over capacity.

    Throwing money away in needy times is IMHO criminal.

    In the UK its even worse.

    The government want to use wood pellets as biofuel , but the UK doesnt have enough trees , so now they are buying American wood pellets , ship them to the UK and there burn them in power plants.

    Where does this insane plan come from ??

  44. My position is not that CO2 plays no role in warming but that the warming is not catastrophic(probably beneficial) and the law of photosynthesis is conclusively proven(vs AGW theory), along with the key role that CO2 plays in photosynthesis. Plants use it to make food in order to grow bigger and faster.

  45. New paper finds CO2 emissions self-regulate as economic prosperity increases, without carbon taxes”

    Wow.
    Seriously, this has potential future implications regarding how biased scientists/governments use data to support assumptions/propaganda.

    Let’s say that global temperatures go from steady the last 15 or so years to dropping. Some scientists insist that CO2 lags temperature.

    If CO2 levels stall or even drop down the road, what will be the AGW crowd’s response?

    Find evidence that shows the planet was saved because humans reduced CO2 emissions.

    With Obama incredibly going into a full court press trying to penalize CO2 emissions ASAP (regulate them thru the EPA) there is no question this possibility has been discussed. How can anybody not really see the global temp stall right now and how has this potential scenario not been brought to the attention and discussed behind closed doors of those that profess catastrophic warming?

    The faster they get these insane policies in place, the quicker they can be in a position to acknowledge the temp stall or even drop and claim victory.

  46. Delicious…. Now where is Lief Svalgaard…

    ….All paths in determining the cause of the little ice age all seem to converge to a single factor: solar activity.

    The Jyllands-Posten quotes David Hathaway:

    ‘We now have the lowest solar activity in 100 years,’ David Hathaway from American space research institute NASA newly concluded in connection to the release of new figures for the sun’s activity. He said the activity for the ongoing cycle is half of the previous cycle, and he predicted an even lower activity for the next cycle, which will hit us in few years.”

    Suddenly even the greenest of media outlets among us are contemplating what the consequences of a quiet sun may be. The JP then quotes Irish solar specialist Ian Elliott, who says these consequences could be dramatic:

    It indicates that we may be on the path to a new little ice age. It seems likely we are on the path to a period with very low solar activity, which could mean that we may have some very cold winters.”

    Elliott then cites the ice-cold winters of 2009 and 2010 as early signs.

    JP then cites at length Danish astrophysicist Henrik Svensmark, who needs no introduction:

    Since the 1940s and up to 10 years ago we have had the highest solar activity in 1000 years. The last time we had solar activity that high was when we had the Medieval Warm Period from year 1000 to around 1300. … Historically there has been a close connection between solar activity and temperature for the last 1000 years. Therefore the sun’s activity will also have influence the coming many years. … The unusual thing right now is that sun’s activity is decreasing while there’s a great increase in atmospheric CO2. For that reason the question is how much the earth will cool in a time of decreasing solar activity. … The development is beautifully consistent with a cooling effect of the solar activity in the same period. This could mean that the temperature will not rise for the next 30 years or maybe begin to decrease.”

    JP also quotes Svensmark on the subject of the IPCC:

    “…many of the climate models used by IPCC and others overestimate the influence of CO2 and underestimate the influence of the sun. … The IPCC is very one-sided, so I don’t think there will be anything reasonable in the next report.”

    http://notrickszone.com/2013/08/09/major-danish-daily-warns-globe-may-be-on-path-to-little-ice-age-much-colder-winters-dramatic-consequences/

  47. How refreshing to read such a well composed article on the climate change debate. Perhaps one day we shall thank Europe for boldly using their citizens wealth and health to prove to the world that renewable energy systems have some limitations that seemed to have been overlooked. Not to worry though as a fix is being planned, although we might have to tax all of you for a little bit, until completion of whatever it is that we decide upon.

  48. Anthony: .com is great for pay walls it gets behind many that google doesn’t. Thanks for all the great reading as an Australian I think we are about to go from a being sucked into the Green con on climate to being world leading sceptics, thanks to giants of the Internet like you. Thanks.

  49. stewgreen says:
    “If you need any photos faking up ..then nip over to ask SkS I believe they are expert at photoshopping stuff”

    Why does everyone assume that the Cook image is photoshopped, and not just a photo ??

  50. Grumpy Old Man says:

    August 9, 2013 at 12:36 pm
    ————————–
    I think GOM is a saint.
    How he manages such restrained language – I don’t know.
    I, too, live in the increasing taxed UK.

    My real comments would – rightly – be censored. So Self-snip!! GOM – thanks!

    Auto

    Auto

  51. REPLY: Do I need to call in an air strike on pirates? -A

    Send in the Drones.

    51.0567° N, 0.1371° W
    Balcombe, Coordinates

  52. The EU is beyond insolvent and their last problem is maintaining the green scam.

    Even the German Greens shortly before the elections have not said one word about Global Warming, except in a by sentence, when Renate Künast promoted her idea of a coerced meat free day a week with the words
    “It’s also good for the climate, and leads to higher quality animal keeping. Moreover you’ll appreciate the Sunday roast much more after a ‘Veggie Day’, Künast says.”

    http://notrickszone.com/2013/08/08/german-politicians-moving-to-ban-meat-consumptions-request-the-enactment-of-a-weekly-veggie-day/

    The political class in Germany stares at a Zombie apocalypse size EU wide debt crisis right after the election. Our social democrats and Greens try everything in their power to not get elected.

    The Eurocrat caste prepares to expropriate savers for the next bank rescue. Take article with grain of salt, but it links to a google translated German article that is less peculative. Planned are Diesel-Boom bail-ins and Cyprus style capital controls and haircuts starting with first Euro of deposits.

    http://hat4uk.wordpress.com/2013/08/09/global-looting-the-new-eu-bailin-law-was-passed-8-days-ago-did-you-notice/

    From panic to pandemonium.

  53. I don’t agree with the claims made in this article.
    New wind parks are build, coal plants are run on 1/3 coal and 2/3 biomass (imported from the USA, there is no cancelation of the quest for electric cars, no cancelation of the quest for co2 reduction in conventional vehicles (Euro 6 will be obligatory in January 2014)
    No cancelation of the insulation schemes for housing.
    No cancelation of the biofuel scam.

    MSM still pushing the AGW hoax full blown

    So where is the beef apart from wishful thinking?

  54. “Additionally, it cuts down on raw material cost of production.”
    Regards Ed

    Thanks for the chuckle, Ed :-)

    ps why doesn’t WordPress remember my name any more.. I keep having to type my email address and name in.

  55. Fred says: @ August 9, 2013 at 10:13 am

    So . . . hundreds of billions of Euros have been squandered, wasted, flushed down the Great Greenie Composting Toilet because Public Policy in Europe was highjacked by a group of political power craving environmentalists and grubby, funding desperate scientists who realized their First Class ticket on the Fame and Gravy train could be realized by abject fear mongering about human influences on the climate…..
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    What many people do not realize is Americans footed part of that bill via the ‘Bank Bailouts’ Remember how Ron Paul tried to get the Fed to tell Congress where the bailout money actually went and the FED stonewalled, then retaliated with veiled threats? Well the information was finally extracted from the FED. Some of that money went to bailout banks in the EU.

    Bloomberg: Secret Fed Loans Gave Banks $13 Billion Undisclosed to Congress
    The Federal Reserve and the big banks fought for more than two years to keep details of the largest bailout in U.S. history a secret. Now, the rest of the world can see what it was missing.

    The Fed didn’t tell anyone which banks were in trouble so deep they required a combined $1.2 trillion on Dec. 5, 2008, their single neediest day. Bankers didn’t mention that they took tens of billions of dollars in emergency loans at the same time they were assuring investors their firms were healthy. And no one calculated until now that banks reaped an estimated $13 billion of income by taking advantage of the Fed’s below-market rates….

    Saved by the bailout, bankers lobbied against government regulations, a job made easier by the Fed, which never disclosed the details of the rescue to lawmakers even as Congress doled out more money and debated new rules aimed at preventing the next collapse.

    A fresh narrative of the financial crisis of 2007 to 2009 emerges from 29,000 pages of Fed documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act….

    Bloomberg carefully does not mention the money that headed to Europe. Of the $16.1 trillion loaned out, $3.08 trillion went to financial institutions in the U.K., Germany, Switzerland, France and Belgium, the Government Accountability Office’s (GAO) analysis shows.

    ….Additionally, asset swap arrangements were opened with banks in the U.K., Canada, Brazil, Japan, South Korea, Norway, Mexico, Singapore and Switzerland. Twelve of those arrangements are still ongoing, having been extended through August 2012….

    The audit also found that the Fed mostly outsourced its lending operations to the very financial institutions which sparked the crisis to begin with, and that they delegated contracts largely on a no-bid basis. The GAO report recommends new policies that would eliminate such conflicts of interest, and suggests that in the future the Fed should keep better records of their emergency decision-making process.

    The Fed agreed to “strongly consider” the recommendations, but as it is not a government-run institution it cannot be forced to do so by lawmakers. The seven-member board of governors and the Fed chairman are, however, appointed by the President of the United States and confirmed by the Senate.

    The audit was conducted on a one-time basis, as mandated by the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act, passed last year. Fed officials had strongly discouraged lawmakers from ordering the audit, claiming it may serve to undermine confidence in the monetary system….

    Lose confidence? After the Cyprus Haircut, Nah, no one would lose confidence in our honest and loving banks.. /snark
    (Quicky on the Cyprus Haircut for those who did not follow that news.)
    Cyprus bailout deal with EU closes bank and seizes large deposits: Draconian terms aimed at keeping Cyprus in eurozone include closure of second-largest bank and big losses for wealthy savers

    Bomb from Brussels: Cyprus Model May Guide Future Bank Bailouts… Cyprus Bank Bailout Model Has Increasing Numbers of Adherents

    And The FEDs bailout of EU banks is still going on.

    06/12/2011 The Fed’s $600 Billion Stealth Bailout Of Foreign Banks Continues At The Expense Of The Domestic Economy, Or Explaining Where All The QE2 Money Went
    Courtesy of the recently declassified Fed discount window documents, we now know that the biggest beneficiaries of the Fed’s generosity during the peak of the credit crisis were foreign banks, among which Belgium’s Dexia was the most troubled, and thus most lent to, bank. Having been thus exposed, many speculated that going forward the US central bank would primarily focus its “rescue” efforts on US banks, not US-based (or local branches) of foreign (read European) banks: after all that’s what the ECB is for, while the Fed’s role is to stimulate US employment and to keep US inflation modest…..

    … but that the only beneficiary of the reserves generated were US-based branches of foreign banks (which in turn turned around and funnelled the cash back to their domestic branches), a shocking finding which explains not only why US banks have been unwilling and, far more importantly, unable to lend out these reserves, but that anyone retaining hopes that with the end of QE2 the reserves that hypothetically had been accumulated at US banks would be flipped to purchase Treasurys, has been dead wrong, therefore making the case for QE3 a done deal. In summary, instead of doing everything in its power to stimulate reserve, and thus cash, accumulation at domestic (US) banks which would in turn encourage lending to US borrowers, the Fed has been conducting yet another stealthy foreign bank rescue operation, which rerouted $600 billion in capital from potential borrowers to insolvent foreign financial institutions in the past 7 months. QE2 was nothing more (or less) than another European bank rescue operation!

    02/09/2013 The Fed’s Bailout Of Europe Continues With Record $237 Billion Injected Into Foreign Banks In Past Month
    Last weekend Zero Hedge once again broke the news that just like back in June 2011, when as part of the launch of QE2 we demonstrated that all the incremental cash resulting form the $600 billion surge in the Fed’s excess reserves, had gone not to domestically-chartered US banks, but to subsidiaries of foreign banks operating on US soil. To be sure, various other secondary outlets picked up on the story without proper attribution, most notably the WSJ, which cited a Stone McCarthy report adding the caveat that “interpreting the data released by the Federal Reserve is a bit challenging” and also adding the usual incorrect attempts at interpretation for why this is happening. To the contrary: interpreting the data is quite simple, which is why we made an explicit prediction: ‘We urge readers to check the weekly status of the H.8 when it comes out every Friday night, and specifically line item 25 on page 18, as we have a sinking feeling that as the Fed creates $85 billion in reserves every month… it will do just one thing: hand the cash right over straight to still hopelessly insolvent European banks.”…

    So Americans got roped into paying for part of the EU Green Energy Scam without even realizing it.

  56. Keiser Report: Lab Rats of Bankster’s Policies
    Posted on August 8, 2013 by Stacy Herbert
    We discuss the lab rats of finance, economic, energy, health and agricultural policy.
    As lab rats, choice is not an option, so the lab rat population must submit to the experimentation being done upon them – whether from Monsanto or the ‘healthcare’ industry. In the second half, Max talks to Ross Ashcroft of RenegadeEconomist.com about the Empire state of mind of the rentier economy in which predators are invited to feast on producers and a new Bank of England chairman, Mark Carney, hosts the rentiers with free money while the media discusses his stunning good looks and handsome neckties.

    Watch the video:

    http://www.maxkeiser.com/2013/08/kr481-keiser-report-lab-rats-of-banksters-policies/

  57. rogerknights says:

    I’m curious: what’s the reason for those holes? Do they maybe pull out or sequester any lint or debris that may accumulate in the socket?

    For use in Redneck extension cord applications (could be a ‘safety’ issue without the holes)?

    Example: Here.

    .

  58. “So Americans got roped into paying for part of the EU Green Energy Scam without even realizing it”
    Well why not? You elected a president who is not even a proven American. Stupid is as stupid does.

  59. Gail Combs says:
    August 9, 2013 at 3:04 pm
    “So Americans got roped into paying for part of the EU Green Energy Scam without even realizing it.”

    Well thank you. But before 2008, American banks were selling toxic debt by the shipload to Euro banks, and S&P etc. assured everyone the debt was good as Gold…. you wouldn’t really want us to lose our *cough* trust *cough* in American institutions now would you?

  60. Michael Mann is the very model of a modern climate scientist:

    Keep that phrase in mind :-)

  61. William Fox asked “Where does this insane plan come from ??”

    It comes from the EU where all of Europe’s energy policy is mandated. Our own ‘government; only has the choice of how to implement the insanity

  62. That’s interesting.

    Despite many years of inflation since that first peace of ate floundered onto our diner plates, my pirate has arrrrghuably stayed the same: In round numbers, right at 3.1415969 ….

  63. Well, this comment thread clears up one thing; with all the nitpicky comments about a picture of an electrical plug, no wonder Willis took so much grief for a harmless reference to a woman’s looks.

  64. I haven’t stopped grinning since i read this. Thank you atoni and thand thank you pres bush for keeping us out of this as long as you did. Note to cape wind…. take your windmills and
    ….. and thanks to all you wuwt regulars. As soon as i see your na,mes i know i’m in for a treat!!!!

  65. RACookPE1978 says August 9, 2013 at 4:06 pm

    … In round numbers, right at 3.1415969 ….

    Oops … something didn’t quite look right out to, oh, say, past five digits … unless you weren’t specifying pi.

    3.1415969… Yours
    3.1415926… Actual

    .

  66. Gail Combs says in another unreadable post on August 9, 2013 at 3:04 pm:

    What many people do not realize is Americans footed part of that bill via the ‘Bank Bailouts’ Remember how Ron Paul tried to get the Fed to …

    Have you ever heard the saying “Brevity is the soul of wit”? Presentations work the same way …

    ‘Presentations’ (and I use the word loosely) such as yours above would benefit through the use of a bullet point summarizing some idea or statement followed up by a couple of supporting facts, cites or events, lather rinse and repeat maybe three or four times and leave it at that … just a WTTW (Word to the Wise) …

    .

  67. @clivebest –
    My estimate, when all subsidies and ancillary costs are factored in (land, new transmission, site preparation, equipment cost, maintenance, cost of backup fossil power, to name some of them) you get somewhere between 80 cents and $1.10 per delivered kWh, or 11 to 15 times as much as the 7 cents for coal-fired, and 9 to 12 times as much as the 9 cents for natural gas-fired (which, however, can vary somewhat with the momentary market price of natural gas).

    These multiples are well concealed by the fact that most of the actual cost is paid by taxpayers. Even doubling consumer electric rates is nowhere near enough to cover it all

    It’s a very effective method of redistributing wealth from poorer to richer, since low- and middle-income people are paying extra for electricity and the excess is going to wealthy investors – der Fuehrer’s crony capitalist buddies, to be exact – in otherwise uneconomic renewables projects. So much for green “social justice.”

  68. Green scams do not work from an engineering standpoint (they do not substantially reduce CO2 emissions in the country where they are installed and make no difference in the world CO2 emissions) and from an economic standpoint, the cost of energy increases which reduces competitiveness in the country that subsides the installation, is a type of taxation due to higher energy costs and taxpayer funded subsides, and increases government deficits which pushes countries closer to default. Government subsidies for green scams therefore results in a net loss in jobs, in addition to an increase in the country’s deficit.

    Spain is an example of the problem of green subsidies which is lose-lose-lose.

    http://www.economist.com/news/business/21582018-sustainable-energy-meets-unsustainable-costs-cost-del-sol

    Economist Jul 20th 2013
    “ÁNGEL MIRALDA was proud of his 320 solar panels in a field near Benabarre, in northern Spain. They added 56 kilowatts of clean-energy capacity to a country that depended on oil imports. The panels cost €500,000 ($735,000): €150,000 from an early-retirement pay-off from IBM’s Barcelona office, the rest from a bank loan. The government promised a 10% annual return on such projects. That was in 2008. Five years later, after subsidies were cut on July 12th for the third time since 2012, his income is down by 40% and he is struggling to repay the loan. “There is no legal security in Spain,” he complains. ….

    …Hoping to stimulate a new green industry, for which sunny Spain seems ideal, the government increased the prices it paid for solar power to 12 times the market price for electricity. …

    But costs exploded, too. Subsidies to solar energy rose from €190m in 2007 to €3.5 billion in 2012 (an 18-fold increase). Total subsidies to all renewables reached €8.1 billion in 2012, see chart. Since the government was unwilling to pass the full costs on to consumers, the cumulative tariff deficit (the cost of the system minus revenues from consumers) reached €26 billion, having risen by about €5 billion a year. …. ….It has been a chastening experience. The government failed to cut subsidies when renewables were booming, so the cuts have had to be draconian. It imposed no cap on new capacity and stood by while that grew uncontrollably (this also happened in Germany). The promised jobs have vanished. The solar-energy business has lost tens of thousands of jobs from its peak. And after repeated retroactive cuts no one is willing to invest in renewable energy any more. Yet because projects often receive subsidies for 20 years, the costs remain. Even after the cuts, renewables subsidies are running at €7 billion-8 billion a year. It is not hard to think of better ways of spending such large sums of taxpayers’ money.”

  69. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh.

    Me pirate’s been hijacked!

  70. Dear Jim,

    Your post at 4:44PM directed at Ms. Combs’ writing style had some good advice. Here is some for you (just a word to the wise). How about also including in a rather harsh criticism of one of your own allies something complimentary to soften your correction? Something like, “Your posts are always full of worthwhile reading;” or “thanks, Gail, for taking the time to research all that and share it with us — great stuff!”

    Gail is a big girl and can take your rough treatment here, but, she is, after all, a human being. Why not treat her like one?

    Good for you, nevertheless, to try to help us all (since many of us could use the advice you chose to bestow only upon her) make WUWT a place of good writing as well as of superb content.

    Janice

  71. Hey! At 5:45PM, I just used the “Preview” option for the first time here!

    Comment: Not helpful. It simply copies the original text with-OUT my line returns to create double spacing. The only differences I saw were: 1) the blue background; and 2) what the published end of the lines would be. That wasn’t a significant help. (if the size of the font had been LARGER in the preview that would have been a benefit AND if the double spacing had been shown in the preview)

    Anthony, I only wrote these criticisms in case you would prefer to return to the old format given the lack of benefit (and higher cost) of the new.

  72. Gail Combs says:
    “So Americans got roped into paying for part of the EU Green Energy Scam without even realizing it.”
    …..
    DirkH says: @ August 9, 2013 at 3:52 pm
    Well thank you. But before 2008, American banks were selling toxic debt by the shipload to Euro banks, and S&P etc.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    The US banks/Fed are still hosing everyone. The Latest American Export: Inflation – WSJ

    Banks get all the profit and everyone else gets saddled with the repercussions of their bad business decisions.

    How in the world can you mess up a business where you print 100% of the money out of thin air, loan it out at interest rates of up to 30% or more and charge the people you are fleecing monthly ‘transaction fees’ to cover your actual business expenses.

    Congressman McFadden on the Federal Reserve Corporation Remarks in Congress, 1934 (McFadden had been a banker)

  73. I like the preview feature. Yay!

    When the going gets tough, the tough pare down to what’s really necessary. Ask yourself; do I really need another windmill?

  74. So they are just saying screw the world basically. That is so not cool! But I think there are two sides though. I mean look at our political leaders who don’t believe anything should be done anyway. In a couple of years, I hope the US doesn’t follow this, with policy I mean. Conservatives are already outraged that people want to save the environment and can’t understand why the govern continues to invest in such a venture. idiots I say.lol

  75. To comments relating to wasted money etc, it was not wasted, not by a long shot. The people in control of the policies, tax revenues and major land owners etc (Govn’t, MP’s, Royalty WHY) have profited handsomely from the Green industry. IMO Europe is, literally, on the brink of a revolution, French style. Or another war.

  76. SouthernGal says:
    August 9, 2013 at 6:21 pm

    So they are just saying screw the world basically. That is so not cool! But I think there are two sides though. I mean look at our political leaders who don’t believe anything should be done anyway. In a couple of years, I hope the US doesn’t follow this, with policy I mean.

    So, what exactly is your criteria for a personal, a national, and an international energy policy?

    How many people (worldwide) do YOU personally approve of killing (or harming) through YOUR deliberately policies of YOUR “cool” (green) energy rather than – for example – economical and cheaper and more easily available energy for all? Or do you prefer more waste and more lost efficiency at the expense of all – but to the immediate payment of only those who support democrat politicians in Washington?

    Better water? Better sewage treatment? Cleaner, more stored food that more rapidly and safely shipped to where it is needed? More shelter and more clothing available to all under more comfortable conditions indoor and out? Better-paying jobs more securelt available with less stress and less taxes? Your “green energy” utopia means less of all of these.

    More CO2 after all means more food, more fuel, more fodder, more feed, more green life for everything living.

  77. I can’t help but think we’re taking extreme sides here for the most part.

    Am I a supporter of the AGW movement? Absolutely not. However, that doesn’t mean we should not be investigating alternative sources of power. I for one am not a fan of fracking, and it’s becoming ever more common.

    Wind farms are certainly a problem (disrupt weather and kill birds!) but solar is improving. Do we need the subsidies? Certainly not to the degree they’ve been done I don’t think. And frankly there are other sources out there we can hardly imagine as yet (hey, nobody really knows what powers lightning yet).

    Invest in alternatives? I’m all for it. Curtail oil and coal? Not a good idea. Yet!

  78. _Jim says:
    August 9, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    “Have you ever heard the saying “Brevity is the soul of wit”? Presentations work the same way …”
    ==========
    They are called sound bites.

    “Wit is a form of intelligent humour, the ability to say or write things that are clever and usually funny.[1] A wit is a person skilled at making clever and funny remarks.[2] Forms of wit include the quip and repartee.”

  79. To Rob Dawg: “Pirate of pendant’s”– aargh indeed! Courtesy of W.S. Gilbert: “Away with them, and place them at the bar!”

  80. SouthernGal;
    Conservatives are already outraged that people want to save the environment
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    As a conservative I am suggesting to you that your comment is risible and ignorant at the same time.

  81. @ Southern Gal, your sympathies being with the “green” camp, you may find the following lecture by one of your own, Ozzie Zehner, author of a fervently anti-consumption book, Green Illusions, at the Center for Science, Technology, Medicine and Society (Berkley) persuasive.

    “Solar Cells and Other Fairy Tales”

    (Thanks go to Canman who posted this on April 28, 2013 at 11:38AM on this thread:

    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/04/28/claim-solar-cells-that-produce-two-electrons-for-every-photon-resulting-in-over-100-efficiency/)

  82. David Hoffer — GREAT refutation above of Southern Gal (and of Tao Babe and her solar power silliness (same gal? hm) — on the Friday Funny thread, today).

    I’ll go you one better. Southern Gal’s inanity (at 6:21PM) is

    air headed NONSENSE.

    LOL, then why did I even TRY to educate her by posting the above video? Sigh. Perhaps, it will help someone else, someone genuinely willing (and able) to seek truth.

  83. Janice,
    For every person who posts comments, there are hundreds who read it.
    Tao is OK btw, she’s got an excellent link on her site crushing the hockey stick nonsense. She’s new to the debate, that’s all.

  84. TalentKeyHole Mole says:
    August 9, 2013 at 10:02 am
    Hello,
    The plug in the image; a standard USA type, not European 2-pole type.
    ———–
    Quite normal SchuKo. Full german.

  85. Not in Britain.

    The “green$” have got their claws too deeply into the government, so subsidies will be rising until 2020.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/10146403/Wind-farms-get-generous-subsidies-for-another-six-years.html

    Wind farms will get generous subsidies for at least another six years, after ministers signed a deal to give them double the market rate for the electricity they produce.

    27 Jun 2013

    The Government said onshore wind farms should get at least £100 per megawatt-hour, when the market rate for electricity is currently less than £50 per mega-watt hour. Offshore wind farms will get triple the market rate at £155 per megawatt-hour in a deal described by City analysts as “astonishingly expensive”. The difference will be met by a subsidy from the taxpayer, which is potentially more generous than the current regime that hands developers more than £1 billion a year.

    Ed Davey, the Energy Secretary, said new costs were “broadly comparable” wih 2013 prices but his department said it had not worked out whether consumers wil be paying more or less for wind power under the new system.

    The subsidies will continue despite David Cameron’s promise this month to “think very carefully” about green subsidies for energy sources such as wind farms and solar panels, as they “end up on consumer bills”.

    It is likely to anger backbench Tories, after 100 MPs campaigned to stop the spread of onshore turbines blighting the British countryside. George Osborne ordered a 10% cut in subsidies for onshore wind farms last year and senior Conservatives had hinted that there would be more to follow.

    Developers have promised that they can reduce the cost of generating energy from wind substantially over the next few years to make it more affordable. However, under the plan, subsidies will only be cut slightly in 2017 by 5% for onshore wind and 13% for offshore wind.

    Peter Atherton, analyst at Liberum Capital, said the cost of offshore wind turbines in particular looks “astonishingly high”. The costs are actually rising, rather than coming down as we’d been led to believe,” he said.

    The renewables industry said the level of subsidies would still mean it is “challenging” for them to make a profit. “The most important ingredient remains investor confidence and that will take time to land,” said Maria McCafferty, chief executive of RenewableUK. “The secret is consistent long term support and investors seeing that Government is behind renewables and low carbon generation for the long term.”

  86. sasha says:
    August 9, 2013 at 11:58 pm

    The subsidies will continue despite David Cameron’s promise this month to “think very carefully” about green subsidies for energy sources such as wind farms and solar panels, as they “end up on consumer bills”.
    =================================
    I think the retort to this promise is “ha bloody ha!” Let’s face it, his father-in-law is coining it in via wind farm subsidies (some say to the tune of £1,000 per week, some to even more than that), his mate Tim Yeo is chairing Parliament’s Energy and Climate Change Committee* and Lord Debden, the former Tory MP John Selwyn Gummer, is Chairman of the “Independent” Committee on Climate Change. He’s got it all stitched up.

    * He has had to step down temporarily as he is under investigation for fraudulently coaching a company in how to whitewash ‘influence’ a committee hearing.

    The trouble is that the other lot are no better (and quite possibly worse). They are, after all, led by Ed Milliband, the man who was responsible for the ludicrous Climate Change Act, passed when he was Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change.

    It seems to me that Grumpy Old Man (August 9, 2013 at 12:36 pm) is spot on. Good for you, sir.

  87. # Fred# et al…. what do you think is happening in Tasmania? We are officially closed for business because the watermelon idiots want to own and run an Island paradise with no forestry and no manufacturing and the highest unemployment in Australia. They are going to give us a 5% cut in electricity costs soon….. what the heck, most of our electricity come from the Hydro……. cheap clean and free…. but in recent years they have slugged consumers hard in electricity price rises… OH so nice of them to give us a meagre 5% back………

    These green crawling critters should have slug bait put out for them now so that there will be none left for the upcoming farcical election.

    ……………..So . . . hundreds of billions of Euros have been squandered, wasted, flushed down the Great Greenie Composting Toilet because Public Policy in Europe was high jacked by a group of political power craving environmentalists and grubby, funding desperate scientists who realized their First Class ticket on the Fame and Gravy train could be realized by abject fear mongering about human influences on the climate.

    A disgraceful period in human history, one that will not be treated well by future historians………….

  88. Gene Selkov says:

    August 9, 2013 at 9:48 am
    The plug on the picture is American, though :)

    or european. Can’t tell the difference, moi.

  89. Aaron Fransen says:

    August 9, 2013 at 8:05 pm

    Too many fallacies in your comment. Go back and research in Google.

  90. ( AndyG55 says:
    August 9, 2013 at 3:02 pm
    “Additionally, it cuts down on raw material cost of production.”
    Regards Ed
    Thanks for the chuckle, Ed :-)

    ps why doesn’t WordPress remember my name any more.. I keep having to type my email address and name in. }

    Check to see if your internet cable is secure. You may be using the wrong plug.

  91. Patrick says: @ August 9, 2013 at 6:41 pm

    To comments relating to wasted money etc, it was not wasted, not by a long shot. The people in control of the policies, tax revenues and major land owners etc….
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    YES

    An International Monetary Fund Report even documents it.

    …New convergence and strengthened interdependence coincide with a third trend, relating to income distribution. In many countries the distribution of income has become more unequal, and the top earners’ share of income in particular has risen dramatically. In the United States the share of the top 1 percent has close to tripled over the past three decades, now accounting for about 20 percent of total U.S. income (Alvaredo and others, 2012)…

  92. “JustMEinT Musings says:

    August 10, 2013 at 2:32 am”

    And yet we have KRudd(erless) saying he (Yes the “messiah”) will “grow” jobs (Manufacturing in particular, which is energy intensive. Carbon tax, Ford, Holden, Alcoa etc, oooops). What, like mushrooms? Keep us in the dark and feed us carp? I am being considered for a position that has interests in China. I think I may need to learn Mandarin. The UK, the EU zone, New Zealand, Australia, the US seem to be on a path to economic destruction.

  93. SouthernGal says: @ August 9, 2013 at 6:21 pm

    ……Conservatives are already outraged that people want to save the environment…..
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    No they are outraged because the elite are using ‘The Environment’ as an excuse to take away rights and wealth from the ordinary folks and trash the environment while they are at it.

    H. L. Mencken nailed it This is CAGW in a nut shell.
    The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.

    The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

  94. Aaron Fransen says:
    August 9, 2013 at 8:05 pm
    ….. However, that doesn’t mean we should not be investigating alternative sources of power. I for one am not a fan of fracking…..
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>…
    Fracking has been around since just after the civil war. Roberts was awarded U.S. Patent (No. 59,936) in November 1866 for what would become known as the Roberts Torpedo. The new technology would revolutionize the young oil and natural gas industry by vastly increasing production from individual wells.

    Ask yourself why after 147 years of Fracking it is all of a sudden all over the news. News media that is owned and controlled by the banksters. I have done similar studies for other news sources. Follow the Money yields banker/energy company interests almost every time.

    As I just said H. L. Mencken summed it up in one sentence

    The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.

    The News Media is the propaganda arm of America’s Ruling Class. or as Dr. Evans put it The Regulating Class.

    Start thinking for your self instead of going where they are herding you.

  95. davidmhoffer says: @ August 9, 2013 at 10:00 pm

    …. For every person who posts comments, there are hundreds who read it…..
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Correct. That is why I try to answer with information and links in a reasonably calm manner when others are saying ‘Don’t Feed the Trolls’

    I also want to take this chance to thank Anthony and the Mods here at WUWT for keeping the discussions clean and intelligent. I have been on other boards and find the mudslinging and kindergarten level discussion hard to take after reading WUWT.

  96. JustMEinT Musings says:
    August 10, 2013 at 2:32 am

    # Fred# et al….

    ……………..So . . . hundreds of billions of Euros have been squandered, wasted, flushed down the Great Greenie Composting Toilet because Public Policy in Europe was high jacked by a group of political power craving environmentalists and grubby, funding desperate scientists who realized their First Class ticket on the Fame and Gravy train could be realized by abject fear mongering about human influences on the climate…..
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Those are just the foot troops.

    Ask yourself how in the world fringe groups came to have so much power? The only reasonable answer is they were of use to the ones in power.

    June 08, 2011 To govern this globalized world, writes World Trade Organization Director-General Pascal Lamy, existing institutions will need to be reformed to ensure they work together optimally.

    …In the same way, climate change negotiations are not just about the global environment but global economics as well — the way that technology, costs and growth are to be distributed and shared….

    Can we balance the need for a sustainable planet with the need to provide billions with decent living standards? Can we do that without questioning radically the Western way of life?….

    The reality is that, so far, we have largely failed to articulate a clear and compelling vision of why a new global order matters — and where the world should be headed….those who designed the post-war system — the United Nations, the Bretton Woods system, the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) — were deeply influenced by the shared lessons of history…..

    All had lived through the chaos of the 1930s — when turning inwards led to economic depression, nationalism and war. All, including the defeated powers, agreed that the road to peace lay with building a new international order — and an approach to international relations that questioned the Westphalian, sacrosanct principle of sovereignty — rooted in freedom, openness, prosperity and interdependence….

    He is saying the world leaders need a ‘clear and compelling vision’ to feed to the masses. “To achieve consensus, we need to strengthen the system’s legitimacy by better reflecting the interests and concerns of citizens.”

    What does he mean by “the Western way of life?” He means a comfortable and free middle class able to earn and keep wealth. He even talks of ” the way that technology, costs and growth are to be distributed and shared. “

    However the part that should strike terror in the hearts of every free individual is:

    “the road to peace lay with building a new international order — and an approach to international relations that questioned the Westphalian, sacrosanct principle of sovereignty”

    This says, IMHO that the US Constitution is the target. The US Constitution is unique because its basic premise is the INDIVIDUAL has RIGHTS and grants government power to draw up laws on behalf of the individual. All other forms of government have the basic premise that the GOVERNMENT grants PRIVILEGES to individuals which can be taken away any time the government pleases.

  97. ***
    Old’un says:
    August 9, 2013 at 2:12 pm

    Those contributors who are wittering on about THE PLUG are devaluing the site!
    ***

    Seconded.

  98. The only ones profiting from so-called “green energy” is Al Gore and the Wall Street Banksters and money-junkies.

  99. Sorry about the OT, but since this morning, images on the post-body won’t show. Right-margin images show OK. Right-clicking the blank space & “load image” won’t work, but “view image” works (opens a new tab). All other sites seem fine.

    Cleared Temp internet files, restarted computer, etc, to no avail. Windows 7 & using latest version of Firefox 22.0 — never had any issues before. Anyone having similar problems?

  100. “Old’un says:
    August 9, 2013 at 2:12 pm
    Those contributors who are wittering on about THE PLUG are devaluing the site!”

    Ah, but today I learned, thanks to a reply to a question, why our American plugs have holes in the prongs.

    After the question was raised I considered Google, but then I figured that someone in the readership probably had an answer. Sure enough, five or six comments later someone replied that they slide over protrusions in the outlet, thereby helping to secure the plug. (paraphrasing)

    Furthermore, since no one contradicted that answer in the next 40 to 50 comments, I would put the probability of that answer being correct at close to Rush’s 99.7% accuracy figure….*s*

    In general, the quality of the comments here (present company excepted) is far higher than the average website, although the absence of greens trying to make their case is notable. I suspect that’s because they can’t withstand the torrents of logic washing over them when they choose to engage, but I could be wrong.

  101. Dr. Benny Peiser at The Australian: Europe pulls the plug on its green future:

    “Slowly but gradually, Europe is awakening to a green energy crisis, an economic and political debacle that is entirely self-inflicted.”

    – – – – – – – – –

    It is the nature of a fundamentalist authoritarian mentality (FAM) that once it makes a coercive intervention (e. g. ‘Green’ Energy mandates) in the marketplace then upon seeing the inevitable unacceptable distortions in the market . . . the FAM defaults to iteratively advocating further coercive interventions to attempt a remedy until you have a totally coerced society and subsequently ( a la the CCCP) collapse.

    Repeal of the interventions are economically painful but much less so than societal collapse.

    John

  102. It gets better. :)

    Plans to build more wind farms are ‘deluded’, L&G boss warns the government

    By James Salmon

    PUBLISHED: 11:30, 9 August 2013 | UPDATED: 12:45, 9 August 2013

    Plans to build more wind farms are ‘deluded’, one of Britain’s biggest investors warned the Government.

    Dr Nigel Wilson, chief executive of insurance giant Legal & General, said the controversial green energy strategy will carpet the countryside with ‘ugly modern windmills’ and result in even higher bills for hard-pressed consumers.

    Wilson yesterday confirmed plans to invest more than £1billion a year on infrastructure projects including homes, roads, and airports.
    No go: Dr Nigel Wilson, chief executive of insurance giant Legal & General, said he would not put a single penny into wind farms because they are too ‘inefficient’ and ‘expensive’.

    No go: Dr Nigel Wilson, chief executive of insurance giant Legal & General, said he would not put a single penny into wind farms because they are too ‘inefficient’ and ‘expensive’.

    But he said he would not put a single penny into wind farms because they are too ‘inefficient’ and ‘expensive’.

    In an outspoken attack, Wilson said: ‘The Government is deluding itself that it is saving the world by building these ugly modern windmills.

    ‘This is a very expensive and inefficient way of producing electricity. I fear we will end up having to import it from elsewhere.’

    He added: ‘It is sad that normal people are having to pay even more for the government’s inefficient energy strategy, on top of their already very expensive energy bills.’

    The comments are a blow for the government, which is trying to persuade insurance companies to invest in big infrastructure projects, including renewable energy.

    As Britain’s second biggest insurance company Legal & General runs more than £430billion of savings, investments and pensions on behalf of its customers.

    In recent years the firm has invested £4billion in UK’s creaking infrastructure, with the money going to projects including house-building and solar energy.

    Last night campaigners described the FTSE 100 firm’s rejection of wind farms as a ‘big blow’ to the Government’s energy strategy.

  103. It isn’t just Europe.

    GE scraps plans for nation’s largest solar panel plant, previously on hold in Colorado
    THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
    August 06, 2013 – 6:41 pm EDT

    AURORA, Colorado — General Electric Co. is permanently scrapping plans to build the largest solar factory in the U.S. near Denver.

    GE blamed the cancellation on a glut of solar panels on the market and falling prices, The Denver Post reported Tuesday (http://bit.ly/1ctY22F ).

    The factory was to have been bigger than 11 football fields and have an annual capacity of 400 megawatts. State officials said it would create 350 jobs.

    GE put the project on hold last month.

    A research center that developed the thin-film solar-cell technology for the plant will be closed, with 50 people losing their jobs, according to Lindsay Thiel, a GE spokeswoman. The research center, formerly a startup named PrimeStar, was in Arvada, another Denver suburb.

    “We have decided that it is not in the best interest of GE, our customers or the Denver community to move forward with the build-out of this facility,” Thiel told the newspaper in an email.

    At least 10 states were vying for the PrimeStar plant in 2011. GE said it would go to Aurora that fall, and company executives attended the next year’s State of the State address by Gov. John Hickenlooper, who personally cited the plant in his speech.

    Thiel said the company has decided to permanently end plans for the plant.

    “With the continued price declines of and overcapacity for solar panels, solar module manufacturing is very competitive, and only the most competitive technology at the most competitive cost position will succeed,” Thiel said.

    http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/84b8b062a7a74dd584826a8d586660c9/US-General-Electric-Solar

  104. SouthernGal says:
    August 9, 2013 at 6:21 pm
    “So they are just saying screw the world basically. That is so not cool! But I think there are two sides though. I mean look at our political leaders who don’t believe anything should be done anyway. […]”

    SouthernGal, you are very naive. Many people believe that just because some technical contraption is called green, renewable and doesn’t drill in the ground where it sits, it is good for the environment.

    Without further information that cannot be said.

    A 100m high wind turbine for instance has, unseen by the eye, a massive concrete foundation, it has rare Earths used in its generator; it has a huge glass fibre propeller.
    All of these things have to be made, transported into place, and then, when the thing sits there – oh we also need quite a lot of copper wire to connect it to the grid – it will produce energy for about 20 EUR in an hour, on average, assuming a wholesale value of a kWh of 5 Eurocents. (I don’t count the huge taxes slapped onto it to get to a consumer end price of 25 Eurocents “value”.)

    It needs repairs from time to time, it will be “repowered” after 5 years, switching the house-sized generator housing and the generator for a new better bigger one and exchange the propeller for a new better bigger one etc. These activities can be financed through the subsidies the operator earns.

    Now. How much energy is expended during the making, and during the repowering? In all the sub processes in making the components, assembling components to subsystems, etc.

    That’s difficult to say. How can we EASILY measure the resource usage? Simple. Use the price. What does it cost to build, install and operate it, and how much VALUE does it produce on the other hand.

    The higher the VALUE produced compared to the COST the more efficient it is and therefore the less resources are used for it, and therefore the most cost-efficient solution is the least harmful to the environment – as a first general rule of thumb.

    Of course you see where I’m headed. Expensive sources of electricity must then be the most harmful to the environment. Windmills are more expensive than gas power plants per unit of energy produced; solar panels are even more expensive – you can clearly see this in the amounts of subsidies paid.

    And more expensive simply means that also more energy has been used in the making of the wind mills and solar panels; energy that they obviously cannot recoup; otherwise subsidies would be unnecessary.

    So my suggestion is; install solar and wind where it is cost efficient without subsidies. Do not install them when they can only be cost efficient with subsidies. This way, you do the best for the environment.

    (Cheap solar cells from China can be made so cheaply because solar panel factories in China have access to very cheap coal powered electricity. Coal power in China is so cheap because they still do not install flue gas scrubbers. By buying solar panels from China, you contribute to the pollution in China.)

  105. I would, BTW, love a remake of “Dallas” with the Ewings being wind and solar tycoons, bribing politicians, raking in the subsidies etc; racing around in their Teslas. Imagine the intrigue one could pack into such a soap opera. If a scriptwriter reads this: Run with it; you can have the idea!

  106. The whole article is worth a read, thanks for posting the link at gwpf.
    It pains to think what could have been achieved with the money if invested properly, the costs being also amplified by the lost of competitiveness, the energy bill being sometimes several time the cost of human resources for energy intensive products.

  107. @Dirk H –
    Yes, all renewables (except hydro, which the greenies don’t acknowledge as renewable) are not only far more costly, but also far more damaging to the environment than fossil fuels, both directly, and as you note, indirectly.
    But then it isn’t about the environment – it’s about that other kind of power, the Orwellian kind, the deliberate waste of resources, the deliberate infliction of hardships, all to satisfy the CRL (criminal reactionary left) and its perverse urges. They will quite happily destroy the environment to achieve their destructive ends.

  108. Driving through rural Ontario I see many a rich farm sporting these tax the poor political kickback solar panels.. Very soon our poorest people will be suffering under huge hydro bills.. Just today I opened the Smart (Bullshit) pamphlet from Hydro One giving me hints on how I can sit in the dark..
    Criminal incompetence stealing the wood from our homefires..

  109. Is this “Plug-wars”? I worked at IBM as a test engineer in the 80’s testing 8100 series computers that were exported worldwide to countries with 240vac 50hz and 110vac 60hz supplies. The image is of two round solid pins, round plug, with a “keyway” (You can see on in the image a “lump”) which there will be another diametrically opposed, there is another “keyway” which looks like a groove. The earth is a pin in the socket in these types of systems. The “keyways” are to ensure correct orientation, or rather sets a standard “One Way Fits”. This type is typically used in France, Belgium etc. Now, the EU zone has several different types of plug/socket. Italy has a flat 3 pin design, which is usually in a “bakelite” case, very brittle and easily damaged. May have changed now. Having had many 110vac and 240vac shocks, some deliberately (Heh!), IMO, the best and safest plug/socket is the UK, earthed square 3 pin, insulated at the base of the pin/plug interface, design.

    Lets not talk about 415vac 3 phase at 63a (UK).

    Green energy is only good for the bankers, the inside traders and those with appropriate land (Sea floor owned by Royalty etc) to install such systems.

  110. ***
    beng says:
    August 10, 2013 at 8:39 am
    ***

    Never replied to myself before, but fixed the problem — it was on my end. Needed to allow scripts from wp dot com.

  111. The plug looks like a standard German/Austrian plug. Those two plugs may be blades, it’s hard to see, but the body of it looks very Schuko, thus very German/Austrian, where this has been standard for a long time. Shall I go and take a photo?

    As for the topic at hand, well duh. There were companies in Germany already saying that, if the price for electricity would just go up one cent, they’d either have to close down or leave Germany (aluminum producers mostly).

  112. PS: invest in alternatives? Sure

    In alternatives that work and don’t 100% rely on a non-linear, chaotic system like the weather. Aka alternatives that work and are actually reliable and efficient. Wind and solar are neither.

    Who is heavily investing in the development of actual alternative systems, like, let’s say, thorium reactors?

    It’s not the EU. It’s not the US.

    It’s China.

  113. Janice Moore says:
    August 9, 2013 at 9:35 pm
    David Hoffer — GREAT refutation above of Southern Gal (and of Tao Babe and her solar power silliness (same gal? hm) — on the Friday Funny thread, today).
    _____________

    Derision is not becoming to you. Please refrain from smear tactics unless they are being directed at you. I am not here to fight with you (and I actually don’t care to because I would like to reserve my energy to doing more important things). I am simply here to understand this side of the argument. There are extremes on both sides, both of which I would prefer not to dialogue with, since I do believe the truth lies, not at the extremes, but more likely somewhere in the middle.

    Solar power is not silly. We may be early in the process (and the process may have its flaws and foibles) but at least we are exploring all aspects of energy and not being stuck to one type or another. Any spacecraft outside of Earth requires solar harvesting (among other types of energy development which, by necessity, will have nothing to do with oil or natural gas) to have enough energy to maintain operations. We must continue solar exploration because I would like to one day see humanity break free from this rock and explore beyond our little cradle of a home world.

    I don’t like to get boxed into one way of thinking. That is why I am not insisting on an all-or-nothing. I am simply suggesting an also-and-concurrent-with attitude. Alongside with all the other types of energy we use, we also need to develop solar energy for various other applications. Heck, keep poking at zero-point energy too and see where that leads. You never know…we may be able to successfully harness zero-point energy for energy generation in the near future.

    • Well said taobabe. I admit I’m not the world’s expert on everything I’ve ever read, so it’s a little frustrating to see that kind of attitude sometimes. I’m here because I’m *trying* to learn more.

    • Solar power is very silly. The (slightly) hidden costs, like exotic metals and materials and the connectivity problems exceed any benefit even if the panels sold for one cent per square meter.

  114. Aaron, thanks. I am also trying to learn more. I have no answers for anybody—only more questions.

  115. Brian, it’s not always about the monetary costs. Sometimes, things are cheap for a reason. In any case, when you have something space-bound (or roaming around Mars), there is no other viable (short term) solution but solar. Tell me, what’s less silly than solar energy for space exploration?

  116. How about the WAVE HUBS in Cornwall http://www.wavehub.co.uk/ and Scotland http://www.emec.org.uk/
    Built at vast expense and LYING IDLE because all of the so called “leading developers” of wave energy devices are nothing more than investment scams.
    They will NEVER put a wave widget in the water but they are very good at putting the money down their trousers.

    Not only that they are all SCAM companies but wave power is NOT the reliable 24/7/365 that the wave wankers claim.
    Most of the time it is either too small to produce any power or too large which spells DESTRUCTION for the idiotic widgets.

    On the rocks…. http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/10_billion_more_where_that_came_from/

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