Richard Ellenbogen
This post was put together by Roger Caiazza.
Earlier this year I assembled a post describing a white paper by Richard Ellenbogen M.E.E. titled The Intrinsic Danger of Siting Utility Scale Lithium Based Energy Storage Systems In Densely Populated Areas. In this post I summarize his New York State Public Service Filing An INES Type Scale to Rate Battery Energy Storage System (BESS) Incidents and a Comparison of 50 Years of US Nuclear Generating Plant Operation with the Past 2-1/2 Years of BESS Operation in the Unite“From a public safety standpoint, if you’ve decommissioned three nuclear reactors, why would you want to install a BESS facility in populated areas that is far less safe?”d States (“PSC Filing”). I italicized Ellenbogen’s direct quotes in the rest of this post.
Ellenbogen’s Introduction
NY State has become the proverbial “Lady that Swallowed the Fly”, with the fly being state energy policy over the past several years that has led to the NYISO warning about blackouts and major generation shortages in the very near future. NY State’s solution, or cure for those years of failed policy, has been to swallow the entire barnyard and all of the animals in it without adequately reviewing the consequences of their actions. For those unfamiliar with the parable, the lady dies at the end.
This is a very ironic situation because over the past 37 years, NY State has decommissioned three functioning nuclear reactors, Shorham’s 820 MW in 1989 and Indian Point’s two reactors with a combined 2000 MW capacity between 2020 and 2021. All of the units were shuttered essentially because of public fear of the systems and the associated political pressure.
That makes comparing nuclear plant safety with BESS safety a valid comparison for utility system viability and that is what this document will explain in detail. As the comparisons will show, a nuclear plant is a statistically far safer facility to have located in any community than a BESS System. The nuclear industry is far more regulated and has far more stringent reporting requirements, and as a result over its entire history dating back 65 years, it has caused far less, if any, environmental damage than a BESS industry that is less than a couple of decades old. In spite of that, NY State seems determined to inflict damage on its local communities to try and mitigate the damage from its failed energy policies.
Methodology
Ellenbogen reviewed nuclear incidents rated by the International Nuclear and Radiological Event Scale (INES) since 1975 and then used Perplexity AI to determine if there was a similar BESS event scale. Finding none he used Perplexity AI to develop a similar rating system and applied starting on January 1, 2024. The next figure shows the INES scale and summarizes the different levels.

Ellenbogen submitted the following query to Perplexity AI to rate BESS incidents.
Build a comparison dashboard between the IAEA’s INES nuclear safety scale and the NFPA 855 Standard for Stationary Energy Storage Systems. Contrast their methods of categorizing risk, detailing how each approach measures hazard severity (INES uses radioactive release, NFPA 855 uses fire-suppression and containment metrics). Include a summary of how battery industry analysts actually classify ‘thermal runaway’ events compared to nuclear ‘accident’ levels 4–7, and synthesize current industry frameworks for reporting site-level battery fires and containment failures into a structured, side-by-side positioning report
Ellenbogen Results
As is documented in the PSC Filing Appendix 3, the response was that there has only been one Level 4 INES event in the past 50 years and that was 47 years ago. The only other event, referenced as SL-1, occurred in 1961 and that was not a commercial nuclear plant. It was an experimental military reactor built when the nuclear industry was in its infancy.
Table 1 summarizes the eight Level 2 and higher events that have occurred at US nuclear plants since 1975. Radiation release was only associated with the Level 5 event at Three Mile Island and after 46 years, there have been no deaths associated with that event and no environmental damage. There was one level 3 event in 2002, 24 years ago, and six level 2 events with the latest being 16 years ago. That was related to an electrical fire in switchgear and not to the reactor. That type of fire also occurs in utility substations and goes unnoticed unless it turns the night sky blue over NY City. No radiation release was associated with the seven Level 2 and Level 3 incidents and there was no local impact from any of them.
Table 1: INES Level 2+ at US Nuclear Generating Plants Since 1975

As a comparison to the nuclear safety record documented above are the ten BESS incidents that have occurred in the United States during a period of 2-1/2 years since January 1, 2024, one twentieth of the timeframe of the nuclear analysis and one sixth of the timeframe since the last Level 2 or higher nuclear incident.
Figure 3 lists the ten incidents based upon the INES/BESS rating system created by Perplexity. There have been two Stage 4 events with major discharge of gases and heavy metals, four Stage 3 events and Four Stage 2 events. Note that two of the Stage 3 events were the newer LFP technology, and the description associated with them is “Better Contained”, not “Fully Contained.” Additionally, “Better” is a very relative term when the bar has been set so low by prior events. Also note the comment about the reporting vacuum regarding sub-ignition events. Contrasted with over 50 years of nuclear plant operation with no environmental damage, the record of Lithium based BESS systems over 1/20th the timeframe with significant environmental damage is abysmal. This is all fully documents in the PSC Filing Appendix 2
Figure 3: Battery Incidents at US Utility Scale Energy Storage Facilities Since 1/1/2024

Ellenbogen Implications
Ellenbogen also asked Perplexity: If battery fires release gases and heavy metals, how does that compare to a Level 2 nuclear generator incident that has no radiation release?
His submittal included the following Perplexity response:
BESS Fire Emissions vs. Level 2 Nuclear Plant Incident: What’s Actually Released
This is one of the most analytically uncomfortable asymmetries in the entireframework. The short answer: a Level 2 nuclear plant incident releases nothing into the environment by definition, while a Stage 2–4 BESS fire releases a chemically complex, multi-pathway hazardous plume that would trigger federal reporting requirements under almost any other industrial sector.
In the prior statement, Perplexity was stating that the Stages in its BESS Scale don’t correlate on an“Apples to Apples” equivalent with the INES Scale because a Level 2 Nuclear Event is far less impactful on the surrounding environment than its determination of a Stage 2 BESS Event. The effects of that and the chemicals released are documented in Appendix 4 and echo what was presented in my previous filling.
While the newer LFP BESS systems are better, they are not foolproof and they are not as benign as the installers would have you believe.
Further, the statement that a Stage 2–4 BESS fire releases a chemically complex, multi-pathway hazardous plume that would trigger federal reporting requirements under almost any other industrial sector, is indicative of the fact that not clearly documenting these events has the “ignorance is bliss” effect on both the public and policy makers.
Ellenbogen noted that Perplexity also had the following suggestion regarding Policy Implications for Grid Scale Deployment of BESS Systems:
As utility-scale BESS Installations grow to multi-GWh scale in locations like New York, California, and Texas – often sited in or near dense grid interconnection zones – the absence of a standardized, post event severity classification system creates an analytic blind spot. The nuclear sector’s INES framework, for all its limitations, enables regulators to benchmark the severity of events across time and geographies. An equivalent BESS classification standard – one that integrates EUCAR cell-level data, UL 9540A propagation outcomes, and EPRI root cause taxonomy into a unified, publicly reportable Severity number – would represent a significant advancement in grid-level energy storage risk management.
That type of framework does not exist and based upon the lack of information available to the public and their representatives, decisions about these systems are being made in an information vacuum where the only stimulus is BESS money being dangled in front of the noses of towns without any attention being paid to the potential downstream consequences. To understand the full ramifications of this information gap, readers are encouraged to read the full incident histories of the ten events that are documented in PSc Filing Appendix 5. The event history with consequences and evacuations starts on page 35 and the entirety of Appendix 5 was constructed without human intervention or prejudices.
Ellenbogen Conclusion
The BESS Industry has a far worse safety and environmental record over the past 2-1/2 years than the nuclear industry has over the past 50 years, a period twenty times as long. NY State regulators and policy makers are ignoring these facts and allowing these systems to be installed in populated neighborhoods while also ignoring the potential consequences. The fact that the BESS industry is immune from regulations that would “trigger federal reporting requirements under almost any other industrial sector “, clearly documents how far the state and the industry has to go before allowing widespread installations of these systems. Regulators are not ensuring the public’s safety. They are only trying to put a band-aid on years of utility system mismanagement.
The following unsolicited conclusion generated by Perplexity documents the problem far better than any human could.. While the IAEA would not be the regulating agency for BESS Systems, the Department of Energy could be.
The Regulatory Gap in One Number
The 6 nuclear plant Level 2 events (1996–2010) all involved zero radiation release — pure defense-in-depth degradation. Every one triggered mandatory NRC notification, IAEA submission, and public INES rating. The BESS equivalent — a BMS anomaly, suppression margin reduction, or near-ignition precursor — has no federal reporting pathway, no IAEA submission, and no public rating requirement. That asymmetry is the structural argument Section 07 of the dashboard documents in real incident terms.
The Level 2 nuclear comparison doesn’t show that nuclear is more dangerous than BESS. It shows the opposite problem: the nuclear framework is so mature it captures events that cause zero harm, while the battery framework misses events that cause documented, measurable, multi-pathway environmental harm.
Based upon the prior information, the question has to be asked, “From a public safety standpoint, if you’ve decommissioned three nuclear reactors, why would you want to install a BESS facility in populated areas that is far less safe?”
Ellenbogen is the President [BIO] of Allied Converters and frequently copies me on emails that address various issues associated with the New York Climate Leadership and Community Protection Act (Climate Act). I have published other articles by Ellenbogen including a description of his keynote address to the Business Council of New York 2023 Renewable Energy Conference Energy titled: “Energy on Demand as the Life Blood of Business and Entrepreneurship in the State -video here: Why NY State Must Rethink Its Energy Plan and Ten Suggestions to Help Fix the Problems”. He comes to the table as an engineer who truly cares about the environment and as an early adopter of renewable technologies at both his home and business two decades ago.
test
You are not alone in wondering if this is working or not.
What is 6×9?
fun
Other than a gap in the text I can see everything. next time I will do it differently
Great work, Richard Ellenbogen and Roger Caiazza!
Even the news-intensive Moss Landing BESS fire seems to have been long forgotten already by state-level NY officials.
The locals in Sherburne NY took some action to pause things. I live only about 10 miles south of that site for a proposed 40MW BESS.
https://eticaag.com/sherburne-ny-approves-battery-storage-moratorium/
Dave
Here are some costs of Tesla large-scale battery systems
BATTERY SYSTEM CAPITAL COSTS, OPERATING COSTS, ENERGY LOSSES, AND AGING
https://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/battery-system-capital-costs-losses-and-aging
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Utility-scale, battery system pricing usually not made public, but for this system it was.
Neoen, in western Australia, turned on its 219 MW/ 877 MWh Tesla Megapack battery, the largest in western Australia.
Ultimately, a 560 MW/2,240 MWh battery system, $1,100,000,000/2,240,000 kWh = $491/kWh, delivered as AC, late 2024 pricing. Smaller capacity systems cost much more than $500/kWh
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Annual Cost of Megapack Battery Systems; 2023 pricing
Assume 45.3 MW/181.9 MWh; turnkey cost $104.5 million; 104,500,000/181,900 = $574/kWh
Amortize bank loan, 50% of $104.5 million, at 6.5%/y for 15 years, $5.484 million/y
Pay Owner return, 50% of $104.5 million, at 10%/y for 15 years, $6.765 million/y (10% due to high inflation)
Lifetime (Bank + Owner) payments 15 x (5.484 + 6.765) = $183.7 million
Assume battery daily usage, 15 years at 10%; loss factor = 1 / (0.9 *0.9)
Battery lifetime output = 15 y x 365 d/y x 181.9 MWh x 0.1, usage x 1000 kWh/MWh = 99,590,250 kWh to HV grid; 122,950,926 kWh from HV grid; 233,606,676 kWh loss
(Bank + Owner) payments, $183.7 million / 99,590,250 kWh = 184.5 c/kWh
Less 50% subsidies (tax credits, 5-y depreciation, loan interest deduction, etc.) is 92.3c/kWh
Subsidies shift costs from project Owners to ratepayers, taxpayers, government debt.
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Excluded costs/kWh: 1) O&M; 2) system aging, 1.5%/y, 3) loss factor 1 / (0.9*0.9), HV grid-to-HV grid, 4) grid extension/reinforcement to connect battery systems, 5) downtime of parts of the system, 6) decommissioning in year 15, i.e., disassembly, reprocessing, storing at hazardous waste sites. Excluded costs add at least 15 c/kWh
COMMENTS ON CALCULATION
Almost all existing battery systems operate at less than 10%, see top URL, i.e., new systems would operate at about 92.4 + 15 = 107.4 c/kWh. They are used to stabilize the grid, i.e., frequency control and counteracting up/down W/S outputs. If 40% throughput, 23.1 + 15 = 38.1 c/kWh.
That is on top of the cost/kWh of the electricity taken from the HV grid to charge the batteries
Up to 40% could occur by absorbing midday solar peaks and discharging during late-afternoon/early-evening, in sunny California and other such states. The more solar systems, the greater the midday peaks.
See top URL for Megapacks required for a one-day wind lull in New England
40% throughput is close to Tesla’s recommendation of 60% maximum throughput, i.e., not charge above 80% and not discharge below 20%, to perform 24/7/365 service for 15 y, with normal aging.
Owners of battery systems with fires, likely charged above 80% and discharged below 20% to maximize profits.
Tesla’s recommendation was not heeded by the Owners of the Hornsdale Power Reserve in Australia. They excessively charged/discharged the system. After a few years, they added Megapacks to offset rapid aging of the original system, plus they added more Megapacks to increase the rating of the expanded system.
http://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/the-hornsdale-power-reserve-largest-battery-system-in-australia
Regarding any project, Banks and Owners have to be paid, no matter what. I amortized the Bank loan and Owner’s investment
Divide total payments over 15 years by the 15-y throughput to get c/kWh, as shown.
Loss factor = 1 / (0.9 *0.9), from HV grid to 1) step-down transformer, 2) front-end power electronics, 3) into battery, 4) out of battery, 5) back-end power electronics, 6) step-up transformer, to HV grid, i.e., draw about 50 units from HV grid to deliver about 40 units to HV grid. That gets worse with aging.
A lot of people do not like these c/kWh numbers, because they have been misled by self-serving folks, that “battery Nirvana is just around the corner”.
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NOTE: EV battery packs cost about $135/kWh, before it is installed in the car. Such packs are good for 6 to 8 years, used about 2 h/d, at an average speed of 30 mph. Utility battery systems are used 24/7/365 for 15 years
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NOTE: Battery system turnkey capital costs and electricity storage costs likely will be much higher in 2023 and future years, than in 2021 and earlier years, due to: 1) increased inflation rates, 2) increased interest rates, 3) supply chain disruptions, which delay projects and increase costs, 4) increased energy prices, such as of oil, gas, coal, electricity, etc., 5) increased materials prices, such as of tungsten, cobalt, lithium, copper, manganese, etc., 6) in
“Would You Rather Live Near A Battery Energy Storage System or a Nuclear Plant?”
You could ask the former residents of Fukushima. At least 164,000 had to leave their homes, for several years at least. Ten years later, 41,000 were living as evacuees.
I think they would have voted for a battery.
Now scale the battery system to provide 4.3GW output for 40yrs….then hit it with a tsunami.
According to my quick AI search about the health effects: “The main documented health effects of the Fukushima Daiichi accident have come from evacuation, disruption, and psychological stress, not from radiation exposure itself.”
I do not see any decarbonization path forward that can be relatively affordable and maintain reliability that does not rely on nuclear for baseload power.
The numbers support the use of it.
The question you asked was – would you rather —
Having to leave your home for many years is a big negative – even if you get out before radiation exposure. Batteries threaten nothing like this.
Really?
The residents of Geelong wouldn’t have been too comfortable hanging around the Tesla battery fire outbreak.
Damage was minor, even inside the facility. No-one was injured. The battery is at least 2 km from any residents.
But they CAN and DO happen, is the point, Nick.
And the more of them there are, the more these events WILL happen.
(you do accept statistical probabilities, such as actuaries practice for insurance risks I presume?)
If I were living in Geelong, I would be far more worried about this:
That is a fire at the oil refinery just a few weeks ago. A lot closer to residents than the battery. And a much bigger fire.
So we are all exposed to many risks in life.\
Was living in Moyhu more risky than living in Brunswick?
Probably not, different dangers, natural vs anthropogenic, but we all have to do the assessments, and make our choices accordingly.
But far easier to fight and extinguish than even an EV battery fire
Ah, divert rather than answer the question.
Pure sophistry.
Nitpick Nick at his best.
Probability of a Battery Storage fire 1 in 16 over 20 years
Probability of a Nuclear Radiation release 1 in 146 over 70 years
No one may have been injured but what about combustion products being spread, which are not particularly healthy?
As I said, the battery fire, just one cell, was 2km from any residences.
Industrial fires are quite common, and you stay out of the way of smoke for day or two, then all is well, Radioisotopes are something else.
As usual, Nick is trying to pretend that many orders of magnitude difference in power output are meaningless.
The question asked was, which would you rather live near.
I will take radiation exposure over ingestiing poisonous toxins every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
You apparently do not know the life time of those toxins in water and soil. They dilute as the toxins spread, but they never go away.
There are 1600 active Battery Storage facilities worldwide with 100 fire events.
1 in 16 have experienced an immolation event in the last 20 years.
There are 440 operable Nuclear Generators worldwide with 3 events releasing radiation.
1 in 146 have had a near catastrophic event.
And only 1 event in the last 20 years. Lets see what the Battery immolation count is in 50 more years…the first Nuke Plant opened in 1954…71 years ago.
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Just 3 of 440. If they were as prevalent as Battery Storage there would have been the potential for 11 at the same ratio of 1 in 146.
I would rather not live where a tsunami might happen, or where a poorly designed system is in operation. I would also not want to live near a system that gets a pass on safety and oversight because it is politically protected.
“Having to leave your home”
“Batteries threaten nothing like this.”
I know someone who had to “leave her home” for many months so it could be fixed – and all the toxins removed – from a simple TOOL lithium battery fire.
Are you suggesting a massive commercial battery installation would have LESS contamination?
It would not have been in their house.
So it would not have been contained to a single structure.
Do you REALLY believe all the smoke and toxic chemicals from a commercial battery facility burning wouldn’t contaminate a widespread area around it?
Including ground water and wetlands.
Are you really this dense, or is it just that you are being paid to make yourself look stupid.
There have been many instances where people have had to evacuate or shelter in place due to a battery fire, and these batteries are tiny compared to what you and your partners in crime are planning for the future.
Yes, they may have evacuated for a few hours. In Fukushima, the time scale was many years.
A few hours? It takes a lot longer than a few hours to properly extinguish a lithium ion fire.
In the Moss Landing fire, an evacuation order was posted at 6pm Thursday. It was lifted the next day.
One data point does not define a line or a plane or a 3D object.
Nick, you are often better than this. Your comparison should have been would you rather live on a coast 70 km from a major under water earthquake.
Reports say that no deaths resulted directly from radiation exposure following the Fukushima nuclear disaster. The magnitude 9.0 – 9.1 megathrust Tōhoku earthquake was the cause of evauations and deaths. It was the most powerful earthquake ever recorded in the country. The nuclear facility had major flaws, such as the diesel generators where flooded compromising the ability to cool the reactors. Hydrogen gas was trapped and ignited (exploded).
{I live 65 miles from a nuclear generating facility.}
There is no way that the earthquake or tsunami forced 160,000 people to leave their homes for many years.
The earthquake and tsunami forced 450,000 to evacuate. 80,000 are still evacuated with 41,000 in the radiation zone and 39,000 unaffected by radiation
The Tsunami killed 19,750 with 2,556 still missing. The Fukushima plant killed exactly ZERO!
The evacuation was caused by political cowardice and panic. It was never necessary.
Yep, it had nothing to do with the 40.5 meter (133′) high wall of water at all
At Fukashima the evacuation killed 1000 times as many people as the incident – sounds crazy ?
There were 2202 disaster related deaths in Fukashima, according to the government’s Reconstruction Agency, from evacuation stress, interruption to medical care and suicide; so far (at the time of publication), there has not been a single case of cancer linked to radiation from the plant. That is prompting a shocking reassessment among some scholars: that the evacuation was an error. That the human cost would have been far smaller had people stayed where they were !
https://www.ft.com/content/000f864e-22ba-11e8-add1-0e8958b189ea
Of the fatalities the bulk – 1984 – were elderly (over 65) and 21 were suicides / depression.
The study suggests that 212 theoretical lives were “saved” by the evacuation and therefore with hindsight the evacuation was a mistake.
“At Fukashima the evacuation killed 1000 times as many people as the incident – sounds crazy ?”
Is that good?
People may make bad decisions. But for people living next to the reactor, they just have to put up with what comes. People not living next to a reactor don’t. Even if there is a battery nearby. The scale of harm is just not comparable.
It wasn’t the reactor, it was the tsunami.
Up and down the coast, the tsunami did much damage – often more than Fukushima. Repairs were made and people went back home. In Fukushima, they couldn’t go home for many years.
The point being, it was not the reactor that caused the tsunami.
That aside, it was the decision to vent that released radioactive materials, not a fault of the reactor.
The point being, had there been no tsunami, this discussion would not happen.
There was a design issue with the back up generators. Those were taken offline by the wall of water. Again, it was not the reactor failing, the root cause of all of this was the earthquake and resulting tsunami.
So you admit that the evacuation was a bad idea.
We also have Nick trying to pretend that battery farms intended for frequency regulation are the logical equivalent to future battery farms that are large enough to power towns for days at a time.
I don’t know; I would have evacuated.
Had that tsunami hit a battery farm capable of matching the output of a nuclear power plant for several days, they would have had to evacuate.
As usual, Nick tries to hide the important details.
And the other thing that is being forgotten…
A battery farm does not produce any electricity !
This is true. Batteries don’t generate electricity. They store it and release it like a fuel tank. That electricity needs to be generated as surplus or dedicated generation before the batteries can hold and store it.
Europe got a huge nature preserve thanks to nuclear energy. There’s wild animals and stuff. Really good for nature. And in an even larger area mushrooms could grow wild for decades, as people were adviced to reduce their consumption.
Thanks nuclear!
It cost several $billion to create that “nature preserve”
Chornobyl was primarily designed as a “dual-use” facility. While the RBMK-1000 reactors were heavily optimized to generate large-scale commercial electricity for the grid, they were developed from military graphite-moderated plutonium production reactors.
They were called “dual-use” because they had the specific capability to refuel continuously while running.
This allowed the military to remove fuel rods strategically and extract weapons-grade Plutonium-239 without having to shut the entire reactor down.
However, operating primarily for electricity generation meant it was a traditional power plant, unlike dedicated, specialized weapons facilities like the notoriously dirty US Hanford reactors.
And another nut job chimes in.
If you don’t know the difference between the Chernobyl power plant and western ones by this time, then you are even more hopeless than you have let on before.
He is not hopeless. He just draws himself that way. 😉
Had it been just the earthquake then Fukushima would have shutdown completely and safely. The problem was the tsunami shorted out the batteries that the crash process depended on. The real issue is locating a nuclear power plant on the edge of the ring of fire, but having said that, how many similar incidents have there been? Why did Germany, in a relatively stable geological area decide to shutdown their nuclear power plants? France has nuclear power plants in the Loire valley, also relatively stable geologically.
Airlines forbid small power banks to be carried in the hold because of the risk of fire. Chernobyl was operator error.
Chernobyl was more than operator error. It was a lousy Soviet design, too.
A lousy Soviet design that didn’t include a containment vessel.
And gross incompetence.
But it was a Soviet design! How incompetent could that really be? 😉
There is nothing wrong with putting a nuclear power plant on “the ring of fire”.
Had the back up diesel generator been placed in a water tight structure at ground level or above, instead of in a basement that flooded, nobody would have ever heard of Fukushima, and the reactor would have been retired later that same year, as already planned.
True. It is obvious the design did not consider such a massive tsunami.
Or perhaps an engineer did and was silence due to the cost (aka Challenger).
Other possibilities, too, but we will never know.
I would take the nuclear power station every time. Grid scale batteries are an accident looking for a place to happen.
Aerial photos shows the layout of the Fukushima plant was entirely wrong. The critical systems such as auxiliary transformers, energy diesel generators, switch yard, etc., were located on the OCEAN side. They should have been located on a higher elevation on the land side. However that would have made the plant LOOK bad from the land side.
The stupidity doomed the plant. It had no power to cool the residual heat of the reactors, so it melted down.
There may eventually have been a few deaths at the plant, but there were many thousands of deaths due to the forces of the extremely strong Tsunami
It is a good thing I actually studied nuclear engineering at RPI in the 1960s, and designed several plants
You think, without talking to a single one of them you are telling them what their opinions are.
Was the tsunami caused by “climate change?”
Never mind. Your opinion does not matter.
If there had been massive battery storage when the tsunami hit, the odds are most of those evacuees would not be alive to give an opinion and the ones the survived would have long term, deathly heath issues.
If not being able to return to your home is to be considered, than I would not want to live anywhere controlled by Democrats. Residents affected by the LA fires are still denied permits to rebuild and return to their homes.
From a medical standpoint, there was never a need to evacuate at Fukushima, that was a political decision.
And we have gone over time and again, why Fukushima is not a good analog for any other working nuclear power plant.
BTW, what’s the half life for the poisonous compounds from a lithium fire?
The layout of the plant was entirely wrong.
It was laid out to look pretty from the land side
Critical systems, such as the switch yard, auxiliary transformers and emergency diesel generators were located on the ocean side.
When the tsunami hit they were wiped out.
As a result there was no cooling to remove the residual heat from the cores of the reactors, which melted down.
The cast iron pressure vessels cracked and radioactive fluid flowed on the reactor building floor.
There were no immediate deaths, but there may be later due to exposure.
The tsunami was very strong. The debris, etc., killed about 20,000 people.
This meltdown was similar to Three Mile Island in 1979.
Thanks for the salutary comments, Nick. Can you refresh my recollection – how many people died during Fukushima?
From radiation exposure, I think only one has been established. That is one more than residents have been killed by BESS fires.
The thing is, they get you out of the way of radiation, but you can’t go back. Not for many years.
If the battery farm is large enough to provide value to the grid, there would be no land available for houses.
Nuc .
I(and thousands of sub vets ) lived and worked within 200 FEET of operating 90 MW or greater reactors for YEARS .
And got less radiation than people living in Denver …
The question has a logical flaw in that it begs the question of scale. Specifically battery scale. What scale battery installation would be required to contain the same ENERGY as the uranium within the nuclear plant?
I’d rather live with cheap reliable energy or at least globally competitive energy-
Germany is a leader in renewables, so why does it have one of the highest EU electricity prices?
Free one hour and exorbitant the next two or three doesn’t really cut it for me and the law of averages
Hands Down, Nuclear every time.
In the last 20 years there have been nearly 100 battery fires at utility scale battery storage facilities
Since Nuclear generation has been available there have been 3 incidents with radiation release.
3 mile island
Chernobyl
And Fukushima.
That’s it…3
My understanding is there was no radiation release from Fukushima, but rather from intentional venting.
Radioactive gases were released by the molten cores, so venting was required.
Exactly.
At present, “utility scale” just means that it’s big enough to help with frequency control.
Those “utility scale” farms would have to be 10’s of thousands of times bigger in order to provide enough power to keep the mains up for even a couple of hours. Forget about a couple of days.
Never said those Battery Brigades were useful. Definitely orders of magnitude larger to even become slightly useful.
Right now, as is, they only store Megawatt minutes of energy
I’ll take reactors for $200, Alec. Like many people here in the US and I’m sure in the UK, I’ve lived pretty much next door to nukes. I’ve never seen a stray neutron or whatever go by, but a great big exploding battery would be a most unhappy making experience-and the crap that they blow into the air is visible, testable, and seriously toxic. Ask the folks in California who had to run for their lives and stay away when that big battery complex blew. Twice. And the after effects and toxins will be around for a long, long time…in the water and in the soil.
The problem is those profiting from BESS installations, and those who get to live with them, are typically fundamentally different groups. In my region there was supposed to be a BESS installation by an out of state corporation. Assorted locals fought it, council dithered as legally they can’t block it as I understand it, I think they approached state government after an election saw a change in power, and eventually the company pulled out, for now.
Why didn’t residents want it? Environmental risks – possible toxic runoff, lethal fumes from possible fires, and possible contamination of the regional water supply as the siting was not only next to a reservoir, but possibly has a creek running through it leading to the reservoir. But none of this is a problem for the company – they aren’t responsible for ‘accidents’.
Running Ellenbogen’s BESS incident Perplexity AI query through Duck.AI, his BESS Stage 2 is probably closer to an INES Tier 3, Bess Stage 3 are akin to INES Tier 4+, and BESS State 4-5 is akin to INES Tier 5-7.
While BESS toxicity may be slightly less lethal than a nuke plant, less lethal and more lethal are still both lethal. And as BESSes become ubiquitous, it’s akin to having micro-scale nuclear plants with high probability of incidents and zero reporting requirements, nearby.
Random thought. What are the implications for batteries in houses e.g. Tesla Powerwalls? They’re micro-scale BESS’ and housefires occur. What environmental catastrophe do they cause?
More people in New York City have died as a result of battery fires than people outside of Russia from accidents at nuclear generating stations.
Why should we have to live near either? I don’t and that is not likely to change. Build in the middle of nowhere. If people then build housing next to it, they know what they are getting into. People are underplaying Fukushima, which released a lot of radiation into the ocean, affecting ocean life, including food fish. Of the two, nuclear is obviously safer, but if it goes wrong, the results last for a long time.
How long do you believe it takes to clean up chemical contamination?
Give me a nuclear power station any day. May be bigger, but at least it won’t catch fire and won’t run out of juice.
A battery farm that is big enough to replace the power of a nuclear plant for just a couple of hours will be many times larger than the nuclear plant.
I live next to a nuclear power station, Koeberg, and I never think about it from one year to the next.
I’m pro-nuclear.
And/but, despite the considerable amount of useful factual material here, the article completely misses the main issue.
I’ll give th writer the benefit of the doubt and assume this is accidental, but it is an amazingly large and immensely dangerous elephant in the room to miss.
Risk is, very simplied, the product of consequence and probability.
Battery farm batteries will self destruct by the container/enclosure lot with statistically predicatable frequency. There is potentially significant danger to anyone immediately adjacent. Despite this, the annual worldwide death rate is about zero. (Domestic LiIon fires kill far more people).
At say 1 km distance from a battery farm fire the health dangers are very low. Stand outside and inhale the smoke deeply for an hour and, depending on your health, it MAY have serious consequences. Take sensible “stay inside” precautions if you can smell or see the smoke and you are far far more likely to die in an auto accident.
https://www.perplexity.ai/search/bb84da4d-e6ab-4d81-8076-b5a83448dc59
However: Nuclear Risk is “As low as possible probability” x “Anything from almost trivial to death and destruction now and for years to come. Possibly for many 1,000’s of people”. Likely? Not at all.
Possible? – Just try getting non government underwritten insurance for your nuclear reactor.
We ALL know this. The writer seems not to.
For some reason.
Again, I’m a friend of nuclear power. I’m an old professional electrical engineer. BUT I’d far far rather live within 1 km of a battery farm than within 30 km (if that) of a nuclear reactor.
The “Moss Landing” fire whih destroyed most of the facility was due to the site being infors and constructed to old safety standards. The fire served as a direct driver of modern safety standards. It was manifestly inedequate when built BUT the rules allowed it.
Much more via this link, but a key point:
“How the Industry Changed as a Result
Moss Landing serves as the ultimate case study for what the energy sector calls “vintage” or “early-generation” BESS flaws. Because of these failures, modern battery installations built today look completely different: [1, 2, 3]
https://share.google/aimode/I6HWpj5B6VISzMmSo