While the Arctic recently set a new record low, lower than that of 2007, the Antarctic is at near record highs similar to that of 2007 according to University of Illinois Cryosphere Today data:
Here are the values:
2007.7206 1.1396104 16.2323818 15.0927715
2012.7316 1.1447686 16.2041264 15.0593576
Source: http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/timeseries.south.anom.1979-2008
At NSIDC, they show extent at near peak, and we’ll likely see a downturn begin soon:
Though, it is possible we’ll see some additional gain before the downturn starts, and a new record high for Antarctic sea ice area is still possible.
I find it interesting that we apparently have this “bipolar” relationship going on. On years of far lower than normal record lows in the Arctic 2007/2012, we have record highs and near record highs in the same years, 2007/2012.
At the blog “sunshine hours” it is reported:
Antarctic Sea Ice Area 28,255.4 sq km short of an all time record
The graph there shows 2012 and 2007 in red and blue respectively:
Ice Area is 1.964296 million sq km higher than the lowest amount ever recorded for this day in 1986.
2011 also was a summer record low for the Arctic sea ice, but nowhere near a winter record high for the Antarctic sea ice. Perhaps you could do a more thorough analysis of that bipolar relationship. Or you could just ask Tamino.
REPLY: I just find it curious enough to make a note of. Haven’t you ever been curious Günther? I’ll continue to point out curious things that interest me, and you spend can your time over there where conformity reigns supreme instead of curiosity.
It really would matter what I said, based on your track record you’d find something not to like, it’s what you do.
I noticed you changed your name (Günther Kirschbaum) and email again. I find that curious too. Since you tend to be one of the first commenters on sea ice news, to ensure immediate delivery of whatever snark you choose, one wonders if maybe you don’t have some sort of alert system setup to watch for Sea Ice News posts on WUWT. – Anthony
Günther says:
September 27, 2012 at 10:11 pm
“…………….Or you could just ask Tamino.”
=======================
I’m asking.
Yes Gunther, and our sciency friend Tamino didn’t even get around to mentioning this in the comparison:
http://www.climatedepot.com/a/17623/NASA-finally-admits-it-Arctic-cyclone-in-August–broke-up-and-wreaked-havoc-on-sea-ice–Reuters-reports-Arctic-storm-played-key-role-in-ice-reduction
Anthony – Does anyone do a total global ice calculation and graph? That might be interesting.
Anthony – has anyone done a total global ice calculation/estimate plus graph over time? That might be interesting perspective.
There does seem to be a concerted effort in getting out the right message. Thanks for your post Anthony. It is interesting.
Günther says:
September 27, 2012 at 10:11 pm
2011 also was a summer record low for the Arctic sea ice,
__________________________________________
You mean – 7th record low in 30 years? Does not sound too much like a record low to me.
Over many years I have found the periods of late March and September to be great times to watch the atmosphere as its components adjust to the rapidly changing position of the sub-solar point. There are usually bursts of odd weather in several places. For example, this weekend and early next week in the Eastern US, weather is shaping up to be quite interesting. In recent years I’ve found the same equinox-times to show interesting sea ice changes. There is much more variation now in the yearly charts than in mid-to-late May.
The growth of sea ice about Antarctica is quite interesting because it is unconstrained spatially as is ice on the Arctic Ocean. We hear a lot about how warm this summer was in the USA and how little ice remained in the Arctic. Almost nothing is seen regarding the amount of ice around Antarctica. That is one reason why this information is worthy of posting.
When one throws in the CO2/global warming/catastrophic meme (said to rhyme with dream) things just get curiouser and curiouser!
Aww gee.. It’s only ice – bloody useless at most times of the year. If a big chunk slides off Antarctica, it proves there’s more being added behind it to push it into the sea, not that anything’s “warming” in particular. It’s not even an important source of reflective albedo, considering the sun’s angle near the poles all year round. It’s also a large cause of storms and hurricanes because it has a powerful cooling effect on the oceans and atmosphere. When that cooling tries to mix with warm equatorial currents and water-laden atmosphere we’ll have the CAGWists sooking about all the hurricanes and tornadoes as happened most often some 50-100 years ago.
Be happy the climate’s relatively warm and stable at the moment!
I did see about a year ago on [AU]’s Catalyst TV program some aquatic malingerer (scientist) showing small holes in sea shells from the Antarctic region – obviously blaming CO2 and acidic conditions for the “corrosion”.
Has a CAGWist ever tried this experiment:
Chuck some eggshell (calcium carbonate) into a bottle of soda water. Using CAGWist CO2 oceanic “science”, the eggshell should bubble about and dissolve within minutes if all that alleged carbonic acid is really there.
Note that it doesn’t. It’ll sit there happily for months without even any pitting, let alone holes. Maybe try the same thing with a far stronger seashell..
Idiots. they’ll be waiting an eternity.
“Salt! What about salt?” they cry. Try adding some salt to soda water and see if it doesn’t boil over and lose all that precious CO2 that’s supposed to be doing all the damage.
“Heat!” they scream. OK – heat some soda water and see it bubble out all that precious CO2 again. There’s no way the oceans could become acidic due to CO2. They constantly brush against alkaline rocks and warm water can’t hang onto CO2 very well at all. The ocean PH ranges from 7.9 to 8.3. It’ll take a massive amount of any acid to even make it neutral.
Go ahead CAGWists – make my day.. 😉
I suspect Gunther follows WUWT on facebook.
Nice one Anthony,some mothers do av em ae.With the ever increasing ice in the Antarctic,how long will it be before I can walk to the south pole from NZ?We need global warming in NZ,I have to stack more firewood to see me through the cold times.BTW,who is this unknown tamino guy?
What’s also interesting is to look at the current Bering Sea SST anomalies. It looks like the Bering Sea ice extent could be positioned for another whopper this winter, especially considering the predicted 2013 El Nino event doesn’t look likely to happen.
The Arctic Oscillation and North Atlantic Oscillation are still above normal, so it would seem that Arctic Ice in the North-East section of the Ice extent probably won’t be setting any records this winter, either.
According to Dr. Spencer, the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation appeared to have peaked in 2011, so it would seem likely that the AO an NAO could be trending cooler in the coming decades… That also doesn’t bode well for CRUTEM4 and HADCRUT4, which were “fixed” to show the current warming trend in Northern upper latitudes.
How about those SSTs anomalies around Antarctica and in large sections of lower Southern latitudes. Things sure don’t seem very hopeful for the Warmunistas, especially considering a Maunder Minimum Event seems likely around 2020 according to Penn/Livingston…
When it rains it pours… Well…when it pours, it’s because of CAGW, of course, except when it doesn’t pour that’s CAGW, too, but when it doesn’t rain much or at all, well, that’s certainly CAGW, too… except…Well, kinda, sorta… Ohhhhh, It’s all so confusing…
And yet over at the BBC, warmists are still talking as if the Antarctic is melting!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/paulhudson/2012/09/all-eyes-on-york-after-worst-s.shtml
And Tamino thinks that “records” like these are unimportant, and posted an interesting chart – one from NSDIC (http://tamino.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/anom2.jpg?w=750&h=483) showing the trends for both Arctic and Antarctic (and we’ve all been told the TREND is the most important metric, not the highs and lows).
The problem is, while the Arctic trend has been dropping (and has been below “zero” since about 1992), the Antarctic trend has been rising (and has been above “zero” for the same length of time).
So when we see articles like “the (x) straight month the global temp has been above the 20th century average”, why don’t we see similar articles stating the Antarctic sea ice anomalies have been above the average for about the last 20 years?
And you’re right about the yearly values – if you look at The Cryosphere Today site, and use their interactive chart, you’ll see just how close it is:
2007, day 263, 16.23238 sq km
2012, day 267, 16.20413 sq km
2010, day 227, 16.05034 sq km
This shows that three highest values have been in the last 5 years.
You know they won’t pay any attention to the peak – but each little dip below the average will be headline news (and sure-fire evidence of Global Catastrophe).
It still raises a question for the CAGW crowd – if every extreme weather or climate event seems to prove CAGW, why wouldn’t this one?
I don’t usually comment on names, but this time I couldn’t resist.
Gunther, (sorry can’t do umlauts) is your last name Kirschbaum or Kirchenpflucker ?
The bipolar relationship does not mean if one is a record high the other has to be a record low, however, it is interesting that with ‘global’ temperatures rising, the increase in ice in Antarctica is a contradiction to the belief that global warming exists at all.
Some questions which spring to mind – can any commenters offer any insights?
What’s the mechanism for this inverse correlation?
Are there any models which have accurately forecast this?
Does this pattern appear anywhere in the historical record?
Thanks…..
Dermot
Here is an interesting graph that shows what we armchair climatologists have said about the storm in August in the Arctic:
http://psc.apl.washington.edu/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/schweiger/ice_volume/Bpiomas_plot_daily_heff.2sst.png
Could be added to the Sea Ice page.
If warming is “global”, then surely Arctica and Antarctica should be both showing depletion of ice all year round? The AGW mob cannot be telling us that, due to AGW the Arctic will be ice free by 2050 (or whatever year it is now, as the goalposts seem to keep moving) but Antarctic ice is somehow immune to this process? Because they are ignoring what is happening in Antarctica, does that make them “Deniers” or is it just an “Inconvenient Truth”?
Paraphrasing a recent comment from JoNova: Crisis! The Southern Ocean’s shrinking!
Günther says:
September 27, 2012 at 10:11 pm
.”…………….Or you could just ask Tamino.”
==================
Ask him what ?
To explain bipolar ice anomolies, in relation to CO2.
Cost/benefit ratios of windmills.
The money is in the pipeline, “nobody” dares to question its destination.
If globally-averaged temperatures were rising, I would expect to see globally-averaged sea ice areas decreasing apace. So why is the latter figure so obscure that nobody features it on a webpage?
When the sea ice at one pole goes up and the other pole goes down, I assume this is a warmth-distribution issue. The most obvious culprit is ocean currents, but global wind patterns might also have something to do with it. Does NSIDC study this stuff?
Why would anyone assume that a unipolar decrease was a symptom of global (as opposed to regional) temperature change?
Link between the solar activity and climate is often questioned, since data doesn’t support it unequivocally. This could be due to intermediary factors, which are often either ignored or not taken into account.
In Antarctic there is clear and without any doubt data supported link between the solar activity and changes in the Earth’s magnetic field (as I found some months ago and brought to the attention of the WUWT readers)
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/TMC.htm
The changes in the geomagnetic field come from the movements of fluid in the Earth’s core:
Jean Dickey of NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena:
“One possibility is the movements of Earth’s core (where Earth’s magnetic field originates) might disturb Earth’s magnetic shielding of charged-particle (i.e., cosmic ray) fluxes that have been hypothesized to affect the formation of clouds. This could affect how much of the sun’s energy is reflected back to space and how much is absorbed by our planet. Other possibilities are that some other core process could be having a more indirect effect on climate, or that an external (e.g. solar) process affects the core and climate simultaneously.”
Keith Minto says:
September 27, 2012 at 11:28 pm
….. sorry can’t do umlauts……
with number lock on and using number keypad;
alt plus 132 ä (0228)
alt plus 137 ë (0235)
alt plus 148 ö (0246)
alt plus 225 ß (0223)
alt plus 129 ü (0252)
alt plus 142 Ä (0196)
alt plus Ë (0203)
alt plus 153 Ö (0214)
alt plus 154 Ü (0220)
Remeber the Shakun et al paper? The Antarctic can predict the future