Climate craziness of the week: Eugenics is making a comeback with climate optimized human engineering

Bizarre stuff from The Atlantic, though it seems even Bill McKibben is panning him and when you can’t sell Bill McKibben on crazy, well, you’ve entered a whole new plane of crazy. Me? I welcome our new smaller climate optmized green cat-like overlords. – Anthony

How Engineering the Human Body Could Combat Climate Change
By Ross Andersen The Atlantic

From drugs to help you avoid eating meat to genetically engineered cat-like eyes to reduce the need for lighting, a wild interview about changes humans could make to themselves to battle climate change.

One human engineering strategy you mention is a kind of pharmacologically induced meat intolerance. You suggest that humans could be given meat alongside a medication that triggers extreme nausea, which would then cause a long-lasting aversion to meat eating. Why is it that you expect this could have such a dramatic impact on climate change?

Liao: There is a widely cited U.N. Food and Agricultural Organization report that estimates that 18% of the world’s greenhouse gas emissions and CO2 equivalents come from livestock farming, which is actually a much higher share than from transportation. More recently it’s been suggested that livestock farming accounts for as much as 51% of the world’s greenhouse gas emissions. And then there are estimates that as much as 9% of human emissions occur as a result of deforestation for the expansion of pastures for livestock. And that doesn’t even to take into account the emissions that arise from manure, or from the livestock directly. Since a large portion of these cows and other grazing animals are raised for consumption, it seems obvious that reducing the consumption of these meats could have considerable environmental benefits.

Your paper also discusses the use of human engineering to make humans smaller. Why would this be a powerful technique in the fight against climate change?


Liao: Well one of the things that we noticed is that human ecological footprints are partly correlated with size. Each kilogram of body mass requires a certain amount of food and nutrients and so, other things being equal, the larger person is the more food and energy they are going to soak up over the course of a lifetime. There are also other, less obvious ways in which larger people consume more energy than smaller people—for example a car uses more fuel per mile to carry a heavier person, more fabric is needed to clothe larger people, and heavier people wear out shoes, carpets and furniture at a quicker rate than lighter people, and so on.

And so size reduction could be one way to reduce a person’s ecological footprint. For instance if you reduce the average U.S. height by just 15cm, you could reduce body mass by 21% for men and 25% for women, with a corresponding reduction in metabolic rates by some 15% to 18%, because less tissue means lower energy and nutrient needs.

In your paper you suggest that some human engineering solutions may actually be liberty enhancing. How so?


Liao: That’s right. It’s been suggested that, given the seriousness of climate change, we ought to adopt something like China’s one child policy. There was a group of doctors in Britain who recently advocated a two-child maximum. But at the end of the day those are crude prescriptions—what we really care about is some kind of fixed allocation of greenhouse gas emissions per family. If that’s the case, given certain fixed allocations of greenhouse gas emissions, human engineering could give families the choice between two medium sized children, or three small sized children. From our perspective that would be more liberty enhancing than a policy that says “you can only have one or two children.” A family might want a really good basketball player, and so they could use human engineering to have one really large child.

“We figured that if everyone had cat eyes, you wouldn’t need so much lighting”

Read the whole bizarre thing here: How Engineering the Human Body Could Combat Climate Change

Kate at Small Dead Animals has a poll

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195 Responses to Climate craziness of the week: Eugenics is making a comeback with climate optimized human engineering

  1. NovaReason says:

    That’s like a whole bunch of crazy wrapped up in an insanity burrito. What kind of mental gymnastics allowed this person to imagine that we, as a species, have the capability or wherewithal to do something like engineer people to have CAT EYES, without that causing possibly serious issues. I can see the headline now
    “All People Born with Genetically Engineered Eyes Going Blind by 25, Scientists Mystified”
    “We never could have imagined this kind of an outcome, we thought we were helping!” – Random Gub’ment Stoolie.

  2. DirkH says:

    The Atlantic is a publication like The Onion? I’m European so I thought I’d better ask.

  3. William Martin says:

    Well fk me,what are these dudes smoking?I want some.I suppose we payed for their research? The straws they are are grasping at are getting shorter by the day.

  4. les says:

    Actually the biggest amount of greenhouse gas (methane) emissons comes from termites.Bring back DDT!

  5. William Martin says:

    We know their battle is now lost when they revert to this absolute BS

  6. Keith Battye says:

    “Jump the shark” comes to mind.

  7. Marian says:

    Rather pathetic actually.

    Why is there a need to to make humans smaller to fight climate change anyway.

    Going by the other loads of alarmist climate change drivel in the MSM. Aren’t some bird and animal species supposedly shrinking because of climate change. If that is really true evolution will naturally adapt and start shrinking humans then aswell. No need for all this eugenist control freaking of humanity to save Gaia then afterall!

  8. Richard111 says:

    Stark staring bonkers! And what were global livestock levels just 200 years ago?
    Think Plains of America, Serengeti, and many other areas which experienced whole sale slaughter.
    Yet global levels of CO2 were lower than today. Could it be because of all the felled timber?

  9. SSam says:

    Lets see, for some reason certain races tend to have taller than human average height.

    Is there a hint of eugenics in this loons train of thought?

  10. Mike McMillan says:

    If we were all smaller, then we could cram another couple billion of us into the cities. If we had cat eyes, we could sleep all day and roam all night. Sounds like we’ve got some answers here, folks.

    As far as drug induced meat aversion, Kubrick did that in “A Clockwork Orange,” but he was averring something other than meat.

  11. BBBaz says:

    Don’t those guys realize that in 20 years all meat will be grown from cells in a factory/laboratory. Behind each supermarket will be one of these meat production faclabs turning out tasty rump steak etc to the supermarket’s requirements. It won’t be manufactured meat but meat grown as it would grow on an animal. First trial production of this type has already occurred in the form of a white meat sausage, not very appealing but it will improve very quickly. Work in this field is progressing at the speed of light as the rewards are ginormous. Google “factory manufactured meat” if you have your doubts.

  12. BBBaz says:

    BBBaz above last line should read, Google “factory grown meat”

  13. I think there might be a funding opportunity here.
    let’s see, maybe we could transplant the ‘head in sand’ ostrich reponse to humans and IPCC AR’s ?
    nah… been done already.

  14. Hari Seldon says:

    Nit picker alert….’I welcome or new smaller climate optmized green cat-like overlords. – Anthony’

  15. My2Cents says:

    Amusing. He is quick to dismiss others ideas because they might have side effects, but is immune to considering that his own might be similarly flawed.

    Limit the emissions per family? How do you intend to enforce it? The only realistic method is the death penalty.

    Science fiction has some great ‘studies’ of his proposals. I would suggest reading ‘Half Past Human’, by T. J. Bass, his proposal bears a strong resemblance to the ‘Nebish’.

  16. DavidA says:

    Steve Austin is environmentally friendly?

  17. William Martin says:

    Sorry,I can’t believe this dude is serious.Not april 1st is it?I live in New Zealand,temps here are below average.But I would like to be able to see in the dark.Could be fun.Thanks for your posts Anthony,read them all the time.Seems you have them whucked?Whacked?Woteva,What rock is Michael Mann hiding under at the mo.He’s gone real quiet.Mybe he has got his cat’s eyes and gone none nocturnal.Thanks for a great site.Billy

  18. kadaka (KD Knoebel) says:

    The Atlantic should have noted there is indeed an ongoing large scale experiment that has successfully produced smaller people that consume very few resources. It’s called North Korea.

    http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20040214&slug=korea14


    The World Food Program and UNICEF reported last year that chronic malnutrition had left 42 percent of North Korean children stunted — meaning their growth was seriously impaired, most likely permanently. An earlier report by the U.N. agencies warned that there was strong evidence that physical stunting could be accompanied by intellectual impairment.

    South Korean anthropologists who measured North Korean refugees here in Yanji, a city 15 miles from the North Korean border, found that most of the teenage boys stood less than 5 feet tall and weighed less than 100 pounds. In contrast, the average 17-year-old South Korean boy is 5-feet-8, slightly shorter than an American boy of the same age.

    The height disparities are stunning because Koreans were more or less the same size — if anything, people in the North were slightly taller — until the abrupt partitioning of the country after World War II.

    The level of medical knowledge dispatched to test the efficacy of the method is truly breathtaking:


    Starting in the mid-1990s, North Korean leader Kim Jong Il (who reportedly wears elevator shoes to enhance his 5-foot-3 height) ordered people to do special exercises designed to make them taller. As a result, it is not uncommon to see students hanging from rings or parallel bars for as long as 30 minutes. Basketball is also promoted as a national sport to instill the yearning for height.

    “Grow taller!” instruct banners hung in some schoolyards, defectors and aid workers say.

    Seok Young Hwan, a North Korean army doctor who defected to South Korea in 1998, said the Health Ministry also ordered government-research institutes to investigate herbal remedies and vitamins believed to promote growth. One popular Chinese medicine distributed to soldiers and students is made of pine-tree powder and another of calcium.

    Makes sense, as it was long ago demonstrated that giraffes gain their long necks and legs from stretching for leaves high up on trees. Being North Korea, I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re trying long therapeutic sessions on the rack, however they have so far confined those experimental treatments to those confined in their prisons.

    Well then, let’s all give thanks to the forward-thinking North Korean government for showing the way forward to the Green Utopia. Just restrict the nutrition intake to the young and in the womb, and you can create generations that consume far less resources and are mentally prepared to be happy Greens for all of their lives. Good work North Korea, the Green movement is indebted to you for your selfless contribution to eternal Green world peace.

  19. Gary Hladik says:

    Instead of making us allergic to meat, they should make us allergic to BS. That would solve a lot of problems, including climate alarmism.

  20. Jer0me says:

    Probably the most insidious element in this is the idea that people could be given drugs to increase their empathy and therefore become environmentalists. So, you want to force people to think like you?

    Of course, it would all be ‘voluntary’. “Hey you! Yes, you with the SUV! you’ve just been ‘volunteered’!”

  21. the_Butcher says:

    Liao? Asian?

    Some Asians eat cats…

  22. jonjermey says:

    Look, they got their grant! What more do you want?

    Anyway, Peter Gabriel said it first: And he nearly got the date right!

    “18/9/2012 T.V. Flash on All Dial-a-Program Services. This is an announcement from Genetic Control:. “It is my sad duty to inform you of a four foot restriction on. humanoid height.”. . It’s said now that people will be shorter in height,. they can fit twice as many in the same building site..

    – Genesis — Get ‘em Out By Friday

  23. kim2ooo says:

    Reblogged this on Climate Ponderings and commented:
    North Korea meets Prince Phillip

  24. This is even worse than fascism or communism. At least those dictators believed in increasing human capacity. This type of disgusting filthy ideology declares its intention to not only destroy vast swathes of the farming industry and the eco-system that relies on it, but also to stamp out mankind’s existence and turn humanity into a hobbit-like slave.

    Bring that ideology near me or any of my descendants and believe me, we will raise an army of massive violence against you. I will engrain this defence of humanity in my family and make sure it is handed down to each new generation.

  25. Miles Yorke says:

    A note to the mods…I have been informed by William Martin that he has been ‘hacked’ and that the messages posted on WUWT and another site purported to be from him are in fact from someone else!
    I’m not sure what he’s to do next, but suggest you contact him at his provided email and a) verify that what I have said is true and b) do not post any more from ‘William Martin’ until this is sorted out.

  26. Rhys Jaggar says:

    This is futuristic prognostication which should have no place in current policy making.

    Nothing wrong with futuristic prognostication in the right places, of course…….

  27. Zorro says:

    I’m six foot three. Should I find some way to “ungrow” to satisfy these misanthropic nutcases?

  28. DJA says:

    Cat’s eyes!!! Now the last time I saw a being with eyes like a cat it was licking a rear portion of its anatomy. I wonder, would it be catching?

  29. Steve C says:

    “Climate optimized human engineering”? Isn’t that what nature has been doing with us for millennia? – And here we are, in generous quantities. We’d probably be doing quite well if only we could get rid of the parasitic, self-styled “élite” which feeds so greedily off the rest of us.

    Eugenics proponents should be subjected to the same test as the population reduction people, namely: I’ll believe they’re serious when they start applying their degenerate policies to themselves, and not a minute before. Until then, they’re just enemies of humanity, no more, no less.

  30. George Tetley says:

    The problem is humanity ! We are, or becoming to many, we need to reduce our world population, now if the nerds from ” The Atlantic ” could come up with a solution and then demonstrate how it works ?

  31. 3x2 says:

    Forget GHG’s, I think drastic reductions in University funding are in order.
    It’s probably a good thing that these ‘studies’ are brought to a wider audience, now everyone can see exactly where their tax money is going.

    Phd – Probably hallucinogenic drugs

  32. Garry says:

    Why is anyone surprised that the insane CAGW zealot religion wants to practice eugenics? It’s merely the next step from Carbon Capture and Storage.

    Keep an eye open for the next scholarly movement toward mass euthanasia, aka genocide.

  33. Byron says:

    Sooo essentially this nutter wants to devolve humans into owl monkeys ? They tick al the boxes small , nocturnal , vegan , built in insulation so no enviromental impact for clothing and shelter , limited tool use so no industry , smaller brains so they don`t ask their green overlords awkward questions . Sheeesh , I know most greenies are misanthropic malthusians but this sets a whole new levels of batsh*t crazy

  34. malcolm says:

    So the proposals include a meat aversion drug and engineering cats eyes, neither of which we know how to do. If you’re going to use stuff we don’t know how to do, there are better solutions already in the literature. Stasis units! Everyone gets one day a week out of stasis, the rest of the time in stasis for a net reduction of human demands on the environment by 6/7ths! (Philip José Farmer’s “The Sliced-Crosswise Only-On-Tuesday World”)

    Of course, what he really wants is people genetically engineered to be unquestioning and obedient to their oh-so-wise masters.

  35. Come on Anthony, do you think we are all stupid or something? This was obviously a post you inteded to run on April 1st wasn’t it. Wasn’t it?
    tonyb

  36. Jim Turner says:

    It is a political trick as old as time to overstate a position then pull back, giving the impression of compromise and reasonableness. For instance, announce a fifty per-cent tax rise, to general outrage, then actually implement a ten per-cent rise to everyone’s relief. The EU are always floating outrageous ideas that they never implement – gives them something to do and takes everyone’s eye off what they actually ARE doing. Maybe this is in a similar vein – or maybe they really are barking mad.

  37. Alan the Brit says:

    Why don’t these people just be honest. “We are superior to everyone else, we know what is good for everyone else. We want to rule the world, we want to distribute wealth as we see fit. We want to save fossil fuels for our future needs as we need the gas to exterminate 6,500,000,000 people to reduce the population to 500,000,000 which we know for a fact is all Gaia can support, & besides it’s a smaller number to control with our new Global Standing Army/Navy/Airforce. We are the New World Order. We will decide who will live & who will die, because we know best, not you plebians who are so intellectually beneath us!” At this stage the men in white coats should be called. Do they actually live on this planet or are there really aliens orbiting above from where they get there intelligence? Beats me!

  38. Ian E says:

    Actually, there is an obvious genetic engineering solution to CAGW! Selectively remove all Leftie genes: voila, noone will believe in CAGW any more!

  39. Roy says:

    Remember the discovery on the island of Flores in Indonesia a few years ago of the skeletons of what is believed to be an extent species of humans, homo floresiensis or the Hobbit as it was nicknamed? They were tiny and therefore if the world were populated by homo florensiensis instead of by homo sapiens the strain on the environment would be less.

    The obvious solution to a fanatical Greenie (a “final solution”?) would be to try and extract DNA from the remains of the hobbits and recreate the species while banning homo sapiens from breeding so that we would eventually be replaced by our tiny very distant cousins.

  40. Don Keiller says:

    What a load of (self-snip).
    The main reason I am sitting here is because Humans are already adaptable to change.
    We got though the last Ice-Age and the extreme Global warming that ended it.
    We also, somehow, managed to survive the Holocene Thermal Anomaly (it used to be called the “Optimum” before post-normal “science” redefined it).

    I respectfully suggest that Professor Liao reads up on Human history and pre-history before engaging his massive intellect.

  41. EO Peter says:

    Dear Mr. Liao, it is imperative that whatever your taking, REDUCE THE DOSAGE NOW!

  42. kadaka (KD Knoebel) says:

    DJA said on March 13, 2012 at 2:10 am:

    Cat’s eyes!!! Now the last time I saw a being with eyes like a cat it was licking a rear portion of its anatomy. I wonder, would it be catching?

    This is The Internet. There are pictures here. Humans don’t need cat eyes, just sufficient flexibility, it is already possible and occurring. BTW, you’ll have to Google your own proof of that, I recommend you don’t do it at work.

  43. John Marshall says:

    CAGW does let the kooks out of the woodwork. Total madness

  44. Mike M says:

    Mat Liao is keen to point out that the paper is….. only meant to introduce … one possible, partial solution to climate change.

    May I suggest to you Mat that you direct your powers of philosophic thought to FIRST examine whether or not there actually is any ‘problem’ before you advance solutions for it?

    As with ANY scientific debate to address ‘problems’ it is best to begin with a concise statement stating exactly what the ‘the problem’ is and some honest empirical data to support its existence. I contend that none exists- prove me wrong.

    True or false Mat – “The climate has ALWAYS changed.” True you will say but never so fast.

    But then I will point to satellite data showing that earth’s temperature has changed rapidly in BOTH directions. While your theory attempts to explain times of rapid upward rate it is totally incapable of explaining periods of rapid downward rate. Given that the NET change from about 1980 has been roughly ZERO; earth’s temperature has gone equally both up AND DOWN over that time with various rates of change. I contend the existence of a number of identifiable downward rates that are in fact GREATER than near-by upward rates within that data – please attempt to disprove my contention.

    CO2 has never been blamed for rapid global cooling as far as I am aware so … what caused the cooling and cooling faster than the warming in those periods? Let’s take a scientific approach to this Mat and assume there is some sort of a more effective yet undiscovered substance at work; I’ll call it “anti-CO2″ and then challenge you to ~prove~ to me that it does not exist.

    Respond here to me and others or be a coward – your choice.

  45. DEEBEE says:

    This clearly show how much more dangerous avian brains can be than avian flu.

  46. Myrrh says:

    http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/Articles%202007/GWHoaxBorn.pdf

    All according to plan:

    “The North Carolina conference, which
    took place Oct. 26-29, 1975, was cosponsored
    by two agencies of the U.S.
    National Institutes of Health: the John E.
    Fogarty International Center for Advanced
    Study in the Health Sciences and the
    National Institute of Environmental Health
    Sciences. (Mead had been a Scholar in
    Residence at the Fogarty Center
    in 1973.)
    It was at this government sponsored
    conference, 32 years
    ago, that virtually every scare
    scenario in today’s climate hoax
    took root. Scientists were
    charged with coming up with the
    “science” to back up the scares,
    so that definitive action could be
    taken by policy-makers.
    Global cooling—the coming
    of an ice age—had been in the
    headlines in the 1970s, but it
    could not easily be used to sell
    genocide by getting the citizens
    of industrial nations to cut back
    on consumption. Something
    more drastic and more personal
    was needed.
    Eugenics and
    The Paradigm Shift
    Mead’s population-control
    policy was firmly based in the
    post-Hitler eugenics movement,
    which took on the more palatable
    names of “conservation”
    and “environmentalism” in the
    post-World War II period. As
    Julian Huxley, the vice president
    of Britain’s Eugenics Society
    (1937-1944), had announced in
    1946, “even though it is quite
    true that radical eugenic policy
    will be for many years politically
    and psychologically impossible,
    it will be important for
    UNESCO to see that the eugenic
    problem is examined with the
    greatest care and that the public mind is
    informed of the issues at stake so that
    much that now is unthinkable may at least
    become thinkable.” Huxley was then
    director-general of the United Nations
    Educational, Scientific, and Cultural
    Organization (UNESCO).
    By the 1970s, the paradigm shift that
    obliterated the optimistic development
    policies of Franklin Roosevelt and of
    Dwight Eisenhower’s “Atoms for Peace”
    program, was in full swing. The Club of
    Rome’s Limits to Growth, which
    removed the role of scientific advances,
    was drummed into the public consciousness.”

    “Mead—whose 1928 book on
    the sex life of South Pacific
    Islanders was later found to be a
    fraud—recruited like-minded
    anti-population hoaxsters to the
    cause: Sow enough fear of mancaused
    climate change to force
    global cutbacks in industrial
    activity and halt Third World
    development. Mead’s leading
    recruits at the 1975 conference
    were climate scare artist Stephen
    Schneider, population-freak biologist
    George Woodwell, and the
    current AAAS president John
    Holdren—all three of them disciples
    of Malthusian fanatic Paul
    Ehrlich, author of The Population
    Bomb.1 Guided by luminaries
    like these, conference discussion
    focussed on the absurd
    choice of either feeding people
    or “saving the environment.”

    The big movers and shakers of the AGW scare are rationally challenged with stunted emotional growth, attracting like minded fanatics is what has kept the momentum going.

    The more the green movement is exposed to being what it really is, insane, the quicker the ordinary joe and jane supporting them will see where this anti real progress in science and industry and anti human life comes from and the quicker support will drop – policies created out of this insanity have got to be scrapped.

  47. JDN2 says:

    I recommend that trees be re-engineered to show a temperature increase in their rings, like they’re supposed to do.

  48. Ulrich Elkmann says:

    “Size reduction”… This will produce the ideal AGW crusader/scientist, just as described by Thomas Hobbes: ignorant, nasty, brutish…and SHORT.

  49. Scottish Sceptic says:

    I want to say: “Look this person is not being serious”, but we’ve all come across people like this and climate science has far more than its fair share.

    I would like to think this is someone trying to promote a debate about what would be acceptable. I suspect it is someone with a screw loose.

    Perhaps the real motive is intended to get a reaction. Either this is a self-publicist just about to release a book etc. etc., or this is someone trying to promote the opposite …. OK, cat’s eyes aren’t acceptable … QED one parent one child policy.

  50. Tony McGough says:

    Surely Eugenics is the reason the Global Warming scare is being promulgated in the first place. The re-making of Man in his own image is the ultimate end; the various scare stories, of which Global Warming (or Cooling) is the latest (but not the last) is merely the means to this ungodly end.

    All one can do is to reveal the falsehoods inherent in the latest legerdemain employed to facilitate the drive to manipulate us. So well done, those who lay bare the untruths propagated so ruthlessly.

  51. Anoneumouse says:

    Umpa Lumpa or Munchkin?

  52. Jimbo says:

    Watch your wallets!

    © S. MATTHEW LIAO (NEW YORK UNIVERSITY), ANDERS SANDBERG (OXFORD), and REBECCA ROACHE (OXFORD) February 2, 2012
    “This suggests that modifying them by human engineering could be promising. Indeed, test subjects given the prosocial hormone oxytocin were more willing to share money with strangers (Paul J. Zak et al. 2007) and to behave in a more trustworthy way (P. J. Zak et al. 2005). Also, a noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor increased social engagement and cooperation with a reduction in self-focus during a mixed motive game…..”
    http://www.smatthewliao.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/HEandClimateChange.htm

    What will future generations think of us?

  53. Dodgy Geezer says:

    I like two of the arguments particularly:

    1 – “It’s proven difficult to get people to agree to carbon trading schemes…”
    So you think it will be easier to get them to agree to modify their bodies and minds?

    2 – “Providing people with will-power increasing drugs will help them decide to donate to Oxfam…”
    Umm… tell you what, I had thought of invading Poland, but I couldn’t really be bothered. With your drug regime, however…

    I don’t believe any sane researcher would produce these thoughts. What this is is an activists’ wet dream. I want to know why a journalist thinks that this is worth publishing. It says more about the complete lack of journalistic values than any problem with researchers…

  54. polistra says:

    Liao.

    There was a time when Americans had a pretty good immune system. If a Russian “visiting scientist” wrote an article about re-engineering humans, we’d correctly recognize the Stalinist impulse and we’d deport him as an Agent of Influence.

    Now, of course, we have ideological lupus. We’ve been completely infected and effectively killed by Stalinists in the media, cultural organizations, education system, and ruling class. Any attempt at rejecting the infection will be met by the same fierce immune response that formerly fought the infection itself.

    It’s WAY too late to cure it; we passed the point of no return in 1954.

  55. Chuck Nolan says:

    Grapefruit they don’t want to “engineer” but people……is ok.

  56. Stefan says:

    Fans of TV sci-fi show Firefly will recall the ending to Serenity, and the shocking discovery of the dark secret which the clean and noble (but totalitarian) regime was trying to hide.

    Life imitates art.

  57. “From our perspective that would be more liberty enhancing than a policy that says “you can only have one or two children.” A family might want a really good basketball player, and so they could use human engineering to have one really large child.”

    This fellow has no clear definition of ‘liberty’ from which to dangle that amazing departure from it.

  58. Ric Werme says:

    Another great efficiency add-on would be genes to limit human lifetime. In the US the goal might be to restore the original Social Security design of providing support for on average something like three or four years. One big advantage would be improve people’s ability to plan the end of their lives. Another would be the huge medical savings of knowing when prostate cancer should be treated or safely left ignored and reducing money spent to support Alzheimer patients.

    Of course, there should be small populations left unaffected to permit future study. In the US, I suggest that those of Swedish descent be forced into that group.

  59. jonathan frodsham says:

    “And so size reduction could be one way to reduce a person’s ecological footprint. For instance if you reduce the average U.S. height by just 15cm, you could reduce body mass by 21% for men and 25% for women, with a corresponding reduction in metabolic rates by some 15% to 18%, because less tissue means lower energy and nutrient needs.”

    WTF! What drugs have these people been smoking? I suppose this is to get us ready for a “human creature tax =HCT ” Based on your height to weight ratio, a percentage (2.2%?) going to people smaller than you. Crazy!

  60. R Taylor says:

    A more lucid treatment of this subject can be found under Tips and Notes:
    http://www.happyplace.com/14697/the-most-insane-letter-ever-written-by-a-child-to-a-tv-weatherman.
    The significance of the letter is clearer when the original addressee, Dr. Hansen, and author, Lil’ Al, are acknowledged.

  61. Mike says:

    I am easily convinced these are people of extreme intellect. How else to explain that leaders of this group such as Erlich and Schneider ended up at or near Stanford, Ca. I recall buying an original copy of The Population Bomb back in the late 1960s or early 1970s and wondering if I would live long enough to see some of its expectations proved one way or the other.

  62. Ric Werme says:

    On cat eyes – they (and a cat’s visual cortex) are optimized for detecting motion across the visual field, possibly one reason my cats hated car trips (even if most were not going to the vet).

    So this might also induce people to spend less time driving cars.

    There there was a science fiction book about hearing being restored to someone by getting a transplant of a bat’s hearing system. The story traced how the recipient became a night “owl” able to determine the distances by sound and eventually started sleeping while hanging upside down.

    Do we really want cat-eyed people carousing all night, feasting on rodents, and singing from any convenient perch? College town lifestyles would spread far beyond the large colleges!

  63. jonathan frodsham says:

    Yes true, if you wish to see the” Green Brave New World” the warmists have in store for us, I suggest you do some reading on North Korea. Start with this one:

    Thank god for the internet and people like Anthony Watts, or these crazy bastards would have won.

  64. henrythethird says:

    I thought for a moment I was reading a chapter of “Tuf Voyaging” by George R. R. Martin.

    Bioengineering the population to solve some imaginary problem?

    Some of these papers should be nominated for a Hugo Award (The best science fiction or fantasy works and achievements of the previous calendar year).

  65. Roger Knights says:

    MewGenics.

    (Cat eyes, keen–sign me up!)

  66. davefrommarz says:

    It’s a brave new world? What is it about these sorts of people who take the warnings from fiction about where we can go wrong and then decide, hey, this sounds like a grand idea?

  67. hunter says:

    So all of those AGW true believers who feign outrage when skeptics point out the similarities between AGW and eugenics are going to have to find a new source of outrage. Or was this article really a Daily Onion routine????

  68. JohnWho says:

    Hmmm…

    get rid of all the people

    and this planet would be a great place to live.

    Believe we’ve heard that one before.

  69. trbixler says:

    Mr.. Green and his minions still preside over the U.S. government. It is the governments funding that drives this nonsense. These “studies” legitimize the governments actions on “climate change”.

  70. johanna says:

    A couple of days ago, on an unrelated topic, I posted at Tallbloke about the history of eugenics and genetic science and how it relates to the current climate brouhahas. Here is an extract:

    “It is worth reiterating that eugenics, which led to unspeakable horrors, and not just in the Godwin’s Law sense, was absolutely respectable and mainstream in the 1920s and 30s. The last remnants were still practised in many parts of the Western world well into the 1960s, mainly via forced sterilisation. Eugenics seemed intuitively to make sense, especially to people who bred animals.

    The trouble was, apart from the ethical issues, the science it was based on was mostly rubbish. Many of the characteristics identified as being undesirable were not heritable, or no more heritable than not. Others could be prevented, treated or rectified as medicine progressed. Others simply did not exist outside the moral preconceptions of those who named them.

    Fast forward to the present day, and we have furious disputes about GM food, about genetic medicine, about the uses of genetic testing of humans and embryos, etc etc. But the thing that most depresses many of the geneticists I have spoken to is the widespread disinformation in the popular press about their work. We have all seen the stories about the x type cancer gene, the gay gene, the Altzheimer’s gene yada yada. There ain’t no such thing. A ‘gene’ is not even a discrete particle in the way it is conceptualised in the popular media. This kind of thinking is, in a way, a legacy of eugenics. More generally, it demonstrates how the lot of a genuine and ethical scientist in a contested field is not a happy one.”

    Here is the link, for the full discussion:

    http://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2012/03/09/magic-turtle-on-the-wisdom-of-throwing-stones-at-the-greenhouse-theory/#more-5279

    It does seem that a few philosophers are trying to raise their profile – we have just had infanticide and now this. People need to keep this stuff in perspective – philosophers (and other academics) come out with extreme stuff all the time. It matters not, except that usually we are paying for it.

    The other thing that bugs me is that these onanists pretend that they have come up with something new. Ever heard of Spartans leaving babies on the hillside? Or women in the 1950s being advised that smoking will help them to keep the babies smaller? Or people picking partners that they hope will produce good children?

    As we have often seen in climate science, the fact that a person is academically bright says nothing about their judgement. Given the choice of a person of average intelligence with good judgement, and a geek with none, the choice is not difficult IMO.

  71. Roger Knights says:

    Huxley’s best novel (artisically) was After Many a Summer Dies the Swan, in which a millionaire extended his life by monkeying with his genes, ending up becoming baboon-like. (He was halfway there to start with.)

  72. jonathan frodsham says:

    Paul Ehrlich was mentioned 6 times in M.Mann’s Hockey Stick book; he says on location 4919 (Kindle) Mann calls Paul Ehrlich a PERSONAL HERO. Yes WHWT readers, a personal hero!!

    I would like to punch Mann is the nose.

    The mass movements of today are not so much cultural but anti-imperialism, anti-Americanism, anti-Zionism, environmentalism, scientism, and others, are millenarian and apocalyptic. The progression from communism to fascism in the creation of the new world was bridged by Nietzsche which led to an association between ecologists and German nationalists, among whom a number subsequently became Nazis. Certain German “volkish” ideas that were central to fascism: about the organic harmony of the earth, the elevation of animal rights and the denigration of humans as enemies of nature are today presented as the acme of environmentalist progressive thinking. When I point out to warmists that their roots lie in Fascism, hell begins to freeze over. Interestingly the environmentalists are today’s Gnostics. Have a read of the British National Party manifesto and you will see hardly any difference from a socialist manifesto. One needs to be a student of history to see the madness of these people.

  73. Grant says:

    Probably gets a decent salary and medical insurance, money well spent America. Do people pay to go to that college?

    When I imagine the government required to make Mr. Liao’s dreams come true, I tremble.

  74. Sean Peake says:

    Mr Liao, the Nurse Ratchett of climate science

  75. Latitude says:

    Liao: That’s right. It’s been suggested that, given the seriousness of climate change, we ought to adopt something like China’s one child policy.
    ========================
    I’m sure this seems perfectly logical for someone that grew up in a culture of picking and choosing which baby you wanted to keep……………

  76. Chris B says:

    ………….human engineering could give families the choice between two medium sized children, or three small sized children. From our perspective that would be more liberty enhancing than a policy that says “you can only have one or two children.”…………

    Yes, and the government should decimate the population every 5 years if we don’t stop eating meat or having children. This would be better than killing one out of every five citizens and would make the nine out of ten survivors very happy, thereby eliminating the need to pursue happiness.

    Now if they could work on a reason to stop that problematic free speech thingy everybody keeps talking about we could make America a “Greener” place for everyone. Yay!.

  77. J Storrs Hall says:

    I’ve got him beat — although mine was intentionally tongue in cheek:

    http://hplusmagazine.com/2009/09/16/nanopeople/

  78. ShrNfr says:

    Somebody has toxoplasmosis.

  79. Pull My Finger says:

    “Professor of Bioethics” is all you need to know. Talk about a bulls**t cirriculum. One part Philosophy, one part Marxist studies, one part Sociology, beat senseless with stupid stick, pour into university faculty club.

  80. Garry says:

    Dodgy Geezer says March 13, 2012 at 4:00 am: “I don’t believe any sane researcher would produce these thoughts.”

    Really? After decades of calls for the equally insane Denier Nurembergs, for geoengineering, for “hide the decline” and hide the data, the apocalyptic pronouncements of James Hansen, the pagan zealotry of Bill McKibben, wire fraud and identity theft by “genius researcher” Peter Gleick…..???

    It goes on an on and demonstrably proves that these people and their movement are completely insane from top to bottom.

    Now that they’ve reached the threshold of eugenics, I am seriously anticipating a call for “compassionate genocide” in the name of Mother Gaia.

    Eugenics as “the final climate solution” was easily predictable – and in fact I did so on another blogs just a few weeks back – and serious calls for people reduction is just around the corner. Guaranteed. What else can one expect of the thoroughly insane CAGW zealot religion?

  81. hunter says:

    I think the great writer, Jonathan Swift, would have recognized the modest and reasonable nature of Dr. Liao.
    http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html

  82. kramer says:

    Wow, they are discussing the idea of giving us drugs that would give us empathetic and altruistic values. In short, they are looking at giving us drugs to turn us into testosterone starved liberals.

    Technocracy at its finest.

  83. theBuckWheat says:

    “Climate Change” now is a gateway to a rebirth of Eugenics. This all stinks of a secular religion, like the one observed by those striving to bring about a Master Race. If so, we have seen these spiritual forces before. They cost the world millions of lives.

  84. kadaka (KD Knoebel) says:

    General craziness of the week, from Germany:

    Merkel’s coalition government proposed a tax on online news aggregators. Really? Germany will be taxing the worldwide internet?

    WUWT does some news aggregating. How much will Anthony have to cough up? How many of the many little blogs will have to pay the German tax if they post too many links to too many news stories?

    At least they’re consistent. They’ve shown they don’t understand “renewable” technology, then nuclear technology. Now they’ve shown they don’t understand internet technology either. Three for three, they’re on a roll!

  85. Pamela Gray says:

    It is about frickin time. I have been discriminated against all my life. Must be this tall to ride this ride. Must be this tall or weigh this much to not be required to use a booster seat. Must attach clunky loose blocks to gas pedals in order to drive. Must be at least 5′ 2″ to fit into petites. And there are no panty hose sizes that work for me.

    And to not put too fine a point on this, when I was a teenager walking around in all my short magnificence, I had a pair of black cat eyes.

    By gawd, this could turn me into a global warmer.

  86. Pull My Finger says:

    Indeed the Winkler would be pleased!

  87. Pamela Gray says:

    On the otherhand, the entire play structure at McDonalds is my personal playground. You tall people with your massive shoulders and long legs would have to eat my dust going down the tube into the ball pen.

  88. kadaka (KD Knoebel) says:

    From Ric Werme on March 13, 2012 at 5:06 am:

    Do we really want cat-eyed people carousing all night, feasting on rodents, and singing from any convenient perch?

    Considering the overnight and morning news outlets were blaring out the warning about how red meat kills you early and you shouldn’t have it more than once or twice a week max (of course the actual story is slightly different), I am certain there are those who will advocate, for those die-hard self-destructive masochists who refuse to go Vegan, that we would be much better off eating rodents rather than cows or pigs. So mice, rats, and chipmunks are on the menu, maybe a large squirrel for holidays.

    Of course that will be much healthier than the red meat, even when served with the piles of French fries or potato chips or mashed potatoes with gravy that are traditionally eaten with the servings of red meat.

    Raising rats for meat… You know, I did see a movie once highlighting the benefits of rat meat. At this rate, on the way to the Green Utopia, all of us here may long for the “creature comforts” that movie portrayed.

  89. corporate message says:

    Suggestion: butt-tongues. Save on the Charmin.

  90. Latitude says:

    Grant says:
    March 13, 2012 at 5:50 am
    When I imagine the government required to make Mr. Liao’s dreams come true, I tremble.
    ======================================
    Well…..we’re getting there
    ..the first step is controlling your medical

  91. Garry says:

    Roger Knights says March 13, 2012 at 5:35 am: “Huxley’s best novel (artisically) was After Many a Summer Dies the Swan.”

    Agreed, one of my favorite novels of all time. Preceded by Brave New World (loosely similar to Prof. Liao’s bizarre new world), and followed by both The Ape and the Essence and the Island (yet another dystopia resembling Prof. Liao’s vision). Huxley came from a family of noted biologists, and I’d guess that eugenics was never far from his mind.

    Huxley was a social visionary, at least on the dark potentials of humanity. Now we see his fiction made real via the insane CAGW zealot religion.

  92. Endgame: Vegetarian dwarfs. Passive, gentle and obedient by nature, trained to accept a strictly stratified society and a hierarchy of experts. Such are the beginnings of slavery and tyranny. It’s been done before, but not in the midst of plenty and not with such well-coordinated shams to bring in artificial scarcities and to create anxieties over nothing. Historically, the best antidote to genocidal tyrannies has been healthy, vibrant economies with cheap fuel and plenty of food, egalitarian societies with competent, smart and aggressive citizens. For now we must make sure to ridicule and humiliate, and not legitimize in any way such psychopaths like Liao, while lettting them and their masters know that if they manage to force themselves into positions of authority, they and theirs wil be trated like rabid killer dogs, quickly and mercilessly.

  93. climate creeper says:

    Whitley Strieber, has written several books concerning his abductions by aliens. He claims that the aliens revealed to him that man was destroying the earth, thus inspiring his book & moive: “The Coming Global Superstorm” & “The Day After Tomorrow”. He also revealed that the grey alien race has been genetically manipulating the human race throughout history. See … optimized human engineering not as crazy as you think.

  94. corporate message says:

    The impossible “saving our planet” dreams
    Photosynthetic skin.
    Carbon skeletons.
    Fur – photosynthetic fur, naturally.
    Solar panel heads.
    Public transportation that works…
    [SNIP: a bit too far. -REP]

  95. ImranCan says:

    There is a much easier way to combat climate change along the lines of what is described. Just kill everyone. Problem solved.

  96. Mike Smith says:

    It gets worse. You know it’s bad when a news reports starts with:

    “No, this is not 1 April – and this is not an April Fool’s hoax.”

    http://sciencenordic.com/new-theory-co2-makes-you-fat

    Hell’s Bell’s Batman. CO2 makes you fat. Most likely causes cancer too.

  97. AdolfoGiurfa says:

    Conspiracy or to meddle in other people´s lives with the “altruistic” purpose of improving their (our) lives, it is, as any conspiracy, a game for power, a typical childish game, a fools´game doomed to failure….however, these kids are becoming pretty dangerous and are in urgent need of a serious reprimand.

  98. robmcn says:

    Liao: “given certain fixed allocations of greenhouse gas emissions, human engineering could give families the choice between two medium sized children, or three small sized children.”

    ROFL.

    The guy must absolutely freak out when he goes to a basketball game, he must fell the urge to exterminate both teams.

    But it does shed the light on one critical think that is happening in the US science right now, bed wetting group think has replaced individual daring. Darwin got it wrong, it’s no longer survival of the fittest, it’s survival of group weakness. Low IQ pack mentality is destroying individualism.

  99. Hari Seldon says:
    March 13, 2012 at 1:08 am
    Nit picker alert….’I welcome or new smaller climate optmized green cat-like overlords. – Anthony’

    I read that to mean that Anthony is all for the Greenies applying their social engineering on themselves first and exclusively. Good plan, I say. We must push them harder to live up to their cooky ideals, and for the most parts they have been; pacifist, low energy and protein cunsuming numpties with negative population growths and over-educated in insecure economic sectors such as public service.

  100. Juraj V. says:

    Green Khmers all over again. When we will finish ‘em, the whole hell will speak green.

  101. Max Hugoson says:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/03/how-your-cat-is-making-you-crazy/8873/

    Above link, shows that CAT OWNERS are likely somewhat crazy to begin with.

    Now let’s deal with stereotypes…gun toting, tobaccer chewing, neandrethal climate denier: Owns a viscious dog (like Kenji !!). Liberal/Hippie tree hugger owns cats (like Peter Gliek).

    Completely explains everything!

    Max (Not a small amount of tounge in the cheek.)

  102. Rob Crawford says:

    Sadly, eugenics never really went away. It just become impolite to advocate it.

    That cultural prohibition seems to be fading.

  103. Ed, 'Mr.' Jones says:

    It’s over, THEY are going to win: http://sciencenordic.com/new-theory-co2-makes-you-fat

    Yes, they finally figured out that the way to get the CO2 Totalitarian Scheme in place is to get all of the Fat Slobs to believe in “The Magic Bullet”

    We are Doomed, Doomed!

  104. AdolfoGiurfa says:

    A conversation between two women, in the future: Hey, darling, where did you get your child, from Monsanto or…?

  105. Jack says:

    Why isn’t the head line next to a photo of Dr. Evil?

    Even Dr. Evil isn’t that stupid.

  106. RHS says:

    Without manure, how would we grow vegetables?

  107. Chris B says:

    From the interview: Liao: “But, I think it’s worth remembering how fluid human traits like height are. A hundred years ago people were much shorter on average, and there was nothing wrong with them medically. And so, if people are resistant to the idea of engineering humans to be smaller because of some notion of an optimal height, they might be operating from a status quo bias.”

    I guess he considers having antibiotics and good nutrition a “status quo bias”. Or, have the last handful of generations been inheriting acquired traits?

    “Just because a “philosopher” says something everyone else thinks is stupid it doesn’t mean he’s not stupid.” Chris B (1953- )

  108. Jack says:

    What a complete ass, and with a limited imagination to boot. Why not genetically engineer human beings to be able to live underwater, or to be able to live in space?

    And why not give us super powers while their at it? And ‘Dr.’ Liao has a PHD? And funding?

    I am in the wrong business. But I think I’ve got a dynamite grant application idea.

  109. Luther Wu says:

    Get to know some of the more strident greens and they will freely reveal an ethos that “progresses” far beyond eugenics into the realm of reduction of the human population… for everyone else, of course..
    Scrape off that thin veneer of “concern” and you can begin to understand how tyranny has always flourished among men.

  110. michael hart says:

    When I first saw this (on WUWT), just underneath the ‘Cat people’ poster was an advertisement for X-ray Fluorescence Spectrometers. I can hardly wait until we can all have our own human-engineered X-ray vision.

  111. ImranCan says:

    Actually I realise that the ‘dispose of everyone’ plan, the plan that is 1 small leap of logic away from Prof Liao genius proposal, may not be totally optimal …… actually there is a more optimal approach …
    1) dispose of everyone in Portugal, Greece, Italy and Spain first …. that way we immediately cure the Eurozone crisis as well as saving the planet
    2) most poor people to get the chop …. might as well cos they ARE a guilt burden … but we need a few to do the menial stuff.
    3) give the rest of us blue eyes and blonde hair …. based on a previous idea that got quashed before reaching full fruition.

    Prof Liao ….. my total hero for opening up this entire new realm of thinking.

  112. Ed, 'Mr.' Jones says:

    They are everywhere – the Sleeper Cells have been activated: http://sciencenordic.com/ten-percent-us-can-stop-climate-change

  113. Ulrich Elkmann says:

    kadaka (KD Knoebel) says:
    March 13, 2012 at 6:07 am
    “Three for three, they’re on a roll!”
    Four, actually – they also don’t understand the nature of money. When others are in debt, they owe you; when you are in the red, it’s just funny numbers in some ledger (they think). If one were outside of the sphere of their, hm, “experimentation”, it would be fun to watch them try to tax the ‘nets. As it is, one remembers that they have managed to have every internet in Germany user pay for state tv & radio. It’s a start…

  114. RoyM says:

    This has to be a spoof, it can’t be real…. can it?

  115. MikeTheDenier says:

    CO2 make you fat. Yes, they really say it.

    http://sciencenordic.com/new-theory-co2-makes-you-fat

  116. RHS says:
    March 13, 2012 at 7:23 am
    Without manure, how would we grow vegetables?

    Petrochemical fertilizers. Without them, most of us would starve.

  117. Alan Watt says:

    In 2005 a report was published in The Scotsman which claimed Josef Stalin supported an effort by scientist Ilya Ivanovich Ivanov to create human-chimpanzee hybrids for super-soldiers. (See here and here). This is considered shocking and everyone loves a chance to kick Stalin; it makes us feel morally superior. But I’ll bet we are funding Dr. Liao, and just what does that say about us?

    What’s the moral difference between trying to bio-engineer the perfect soldier and similar attempts to create an eco-aware, stranger-compassionate, lower-carbon-footprint future citizen? Of course Dr. Laio is not actually doing any of these things, just suggesting in an interview that they might be desirable (and by implication morally acceptable).

    I firmly believe in spite of Dr. Laio’s fantasies that we simply don’t have the power to make the “enhancements” he suggests. And it’s a damned good thing because I’m absolutely certain we don’t have the wisdom.

  118. SidViscous says:

    Well that’s a new twist on the strawman argument.

    Yes it’s liberty enhancing, because what we could have said is to do something that violates your liberty even more, so see we gave you more liberty by not violating your liberty as much as we could have.

    Reminds me of the govt budget debates.

    “We saved you a trillion dollars by only asking for 4 trillion more rather than 5 trillion.”

  119. Curiousgeorge says:

    Tired old cliche’, I know. But the road to hell really is paved with the bricks of good intentions.

    Evil always smiles at you.

  120. johanna says:

    As I have previously posted in Tips etc, if you post a video with no explanation, indication of how long it is or why I should watch it, you are wasting your time (as opposed to mine).

    Warning – this comment may appear elsewhere. Not all of us are in basements with endless time and inclination to click on ‘hey – look at this’ blurts without further explanation.

  121. paddylol says:

    I submit that the scenario in the novel “Logan’s Run” is superior. Everyone reports to a renewal center on their 65th birthday to be recycled. The monetary benefits for governments are enormous and immediate. Most entitlement programs like social security and medicare could be eliminated. In the USA the federal budget could be cut by 60% and and balanced. States would become solvent.

    To save even more, everyone with birth defects would be recycled. So too with everyone who is or becomes handicapped mentally or physically. If further reduction is needed, selective ethnic cleansing can be employed. Better yet, focus on trouble makers like environmentalists, trial lawyers, and goverment workers who become surplus.

    Some enterprising Malthusians need to model this scenario to quantify the global population and the cost to provide them with a good life following full implementation.

  122. John from CA says:

    Swell, genetically engineered environmentalists. I can’t wait : (

  123. Camburn says:

    What is relevant here is:
    1. It is apparant that researchers are falling into the moral decay of potential cause equates to potential solutions, no matter the price.

    2. Climate change is NOT to be feared. Climate has never been stable. The idea that somehow, somewhere, over the rainbow, that climate is stable just boggles the mind.

    3. Moral reasoning is in short supply in the AGW crowd.

  124. Shevva says:

    The real question is when such ideas become law, ignore the cats eyes and height as thats just wishful thinking it’s about the control over every part of your life that such ideas are about, don’t believe it can happen here in blighty they are bring in a law that will screen relationships and as the saying goes it’s a slippery slope, breeding by IQ levels anyone.

    http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/12225/

    And to bring in the total control of our lives the award winning Jo Nova has this

    http://joannenova.com.au/2012/03/climate-coup-the-politics/#more-20749

  125. Mark Bofill says:

    It’s a great idea! Lets assume for a moment that all forward thinking people will jump on this. Only.. what about nutters like me who say nay-nay? I know, I know, just a bunch of backwards hicks and whatever all, but for the sake of argument just suppose for a moment that I don’t permit my kid to be drug therapied into a vegetarian, or allow the doctors to modify my developing child into a lightweight cat-eyed enviromentally friendly eco-human? It sort of leaves us with an ugly situation, doesn’t it? There’s me, with my uncooperative and enviromentally unfriendly attitude, and there’s the government with it’s guns, jails, fines, courts, and other assorted coercive mechanisms.
    ..hmm.. Tough call… Maybe I’m just being pessimistic, maybe it’s just that ‘precautionary principle’ I always hear people speak so highly of, but maybe, just maybe, we ought to rethink this one a little bit.

  126. David S says:

    Sounds like UN Agenda 2. These folks are total raving lunatics.

  127. Ed, 'Mr.' Jones says:

    WRT http://sciencenordic.com/ten-percent-us-can-stop-climate-change

    I had to give my two cents.

    karen.obrien@sosgeo.uio.no

    “Dr. O’Brien

    Having read this article, http://sciencenordic.com/ten-percent-us-can-stop-climate-change, and your comments:

    Totalitarian Governance / Planet-Saving Stalinism to solve “problems” that are as much imagined as documented, and viewed through the split-second geological time-line reference that our scientific capabilities and self-awareness bias limit us to, is irrational.

    The scientific basis for the case that Human activity is causing rapid and profound Climate Change as well as increases in Extreme Weather events is flimsy, at best, and if you want the rest of us to submit to the machinations of Elitist, Narcissist, Ivory-Tower Know it-all, wealth-redistributing, political-correctness-worshiping, ‘Specie-ists’ you will have to come up with a more solid foundation than that which is predicated on the excreta of a thoroughly corrupt “United” Nations.

    Devote yourself to discovery – let us let a future generation, one that is better informed, draw conclusions.

    Mr. Jones

    Ordinary Citizen, USA

    PS

    “”Insurance companies can stop the aviation and shipping industries, indeed whole transport systems, and all other kinds of industry. You can’t put an oil tanker to sea without insurance. And insurance companies are concerned. They do not want to be financially responsible for climate change as it will cost very much to clean up,” says O’Brien.”

    And YOU do not want to be responsible for erroneously advocating for such a development (“… stopping whole transport industries”) – have you even reflected for one moment on the widespread famine, disease and death that would ensue?”

  128. Brian H says:

    kadaka;
    Your link to the “slightly different” real story on red meat looked to be completely anti-steak, until I came to the single caveat they deigned to insert: “Dr Carrie Ruxton, from the Meat Advisory Panel (MAP), a British group of doctors and scientists funded by the industry, cast doubt on the findings and said the conclusions were based on a “theoretical” model”
    Another model!! And no links to the actual study, or even where it was conducted, just a vague reference to the Ministry of Health.

  129. AnonyMoose says:

    “Since a large portion of these cows and other grazing animals are raised for consumption, it seems obvious that reducing the consumption of these meats could have considerable environmental benefits.”

    A large portion of those cows are on pasture land which is not suitable for crops, so the cows are a way to make use of the useless grasses. To support a vegan civilization would require very energy-intensive methods to force unsuitable land to grow things which humans can eat. Anyone who thinks otherwise should live on grass for a year and let us know how that works for you.

  130. Ed, 'Mr.' Jones says:

    It occurs to me that they actually think that a Collectivist survival instinct exercises more behavioral power than the Individual survival instinct.

    I suppose it could be brought about through Drugs. Doesn’t everybody mindlessly gobble down their psychotropic medications?

    Kool-Ade anyone? (‘Rev.’ Jones)

  131. DirkH says:

    Liao has completely missed the obvious. You just mix some genes from Elysia Chlorotyca into the human genome and we will be able to stop working, stop eating, and process our own CO2 after we’ve eaten some algae.

  132. Gary Pearse says:

    So return the pasture to forest and increase the pop of GHG wild creatures-moose,deer, elk, buffalo, and all the tinier creatures. This type of article shows you what kind of loons we are actually dealing with!! Forget about rational debate

  133. John from CA says:

    kadaka (KD Knoebel) says:
    March 13, 2012 at 6:07 am
    General craziness of the week, from Germany:

    Merkel’s coalition government proposed a tax on online news aggregators. Really? Germany will be taxing the worldwide internet?

    WUWT does some news aggregating. How much will Anthony have to cough up? How many of the many little blogs will have to pay the German tax if they post too many links to too many news stories?

    At least they’re consistent. They’ve shown they don’t understand “renewable” technology, then nuclear technology. Now they’ve shown they don’t understand internet technology either. Three for three, they’re on a roll!
    ============
    I realize this is off topic but thought I’d point out how easy it is to avoid the tax.

    IP addresses include country or region of origin. Shutting a website Off to all of Germany is as simple as a change on the router firewall. If they can’t connect, there’s no need to pay the tax. If they do this, Merkel would isolate Germany from the world — a new Berlin Wall.

  134. Brian H says:

    George Tetley says:
    March 13, 2012 at 2:17 am

    The problem is humanity ! We are, or becoming to too many, we need to reduce our world population, now if the nerds from ” The Atlantic ” could come up with a solution and then demonstrate how it works ?

    Horse pucky. On every point. Per the UN Population Database Low Band projection (the only one that’s ever accurate) pop. will peak at <8bn in just over a generation (~2040, +/- 5 yrs).

    And it’s already happening spontaneously; be careful what you wish for!
    http://www.fpri.org/ww/0505.200407.eberstadt.demography.html

    The US is the only developed nation which is maintaining its replacement birth rate, and very few undeveloped ones are either (even the Islamic bloc’s rate is diving!). My explanation is that governance in the US is not yet as deluded and anti-human as it is in the EU, Russia, China, East Asia, etc.

  135. Nerd says:

    Alan Watt says:

    March 13, 2012 at 7:46 am

    In 2005 a report was published in The Scotsman which claimed Josef Stalin supported an effort by scientist Ilya Ivanovich Ivanov to create human-chimpanzee hybrids for super-soldiers. (See here and here). This is considered shocking and everyone loves a chance to kick Stalin; it makes us feel morally superior. But I’ll bet we are funding Dr. Liao, and just what does that say about us?
    ==================

    I wonder if it has to do with bigfoot Zana? The Russian scientists did some research on it and the offsprings by Zana and human were pretty strong.

    http://www.bigfootencounters.com/articles/zana.htm

    Some wonder if those bigfoot is really Neanderthal. We’d have to catch live one to be able to do genetic testing.

    Sometimes, truth can be much stranger than fiction…

  136. Luther Wu says:

    I already have eyes like an eagle.
    I can spot these guys coming from a mile away.

  137. AdolfoGiurfa says:

    Brian H says:
    March 13, 2012 at 8:27 am
    The US is the only developed nation which is maintaining its replacement birth rate,… Thanks to the contribution of hispanics and african-americans you will have enough market to survive. No people, no market.

  138. Gail Combs says:

    Peter Kovachev says:
    March 13, 2012 at 6:56 am

    Endgame: Vegetarian dwarfs. Passive, gentle and obedient by nature, trained to accept a strictly stratified society and a hierarchy of experts. Such are the beginnings of slavery and tyranny. ….
    _______________________________
    I just finished posting this in another thread but it belongs here because this is the group who is behind all this crud.

    Richard C and Brian H, The “Left” “Right” argument is only used to confuse and deflect us because there really isn’t a Left or Right power base. What the “Left” thinks of as the “Right” is the group that is actually supporting them and orchestrating their actions. The reall philosophy is pragmatism not “Capitalism” or “Socialism” They do not care about any particular philosophy they only care about what is the best method to hand them absolute power.

    From the book Tragedy and Hope 1966 by Bill Clinton’s mentor, Carroll Quigley. (Note Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar)

    This radical Right fairy tale,…. like all fables, does in fact have a modicum of truth. There does exist, and has existed for a generation, an international Anglophile network which operates, to some extent, in the way the Radical right believes the Communists act. In fact, this network, which we may identify as the Round Table Groups, has no aversion to cooperating with the Communists, or any other group, and frequently does so. I know of the operation of this network because I have studied it for twenty years and was permitted for two years, in the early 1960’s, to examine its papers and secret records… but in general my chief difference of opinion is that it wishes to remain unknown, and I believe its role in history is significant enough to be known.[6]:949-950

    …It was this group of people, whose wealth and influence so exceeded their experience and understanding, who provided much of the framework of influence which the Communist sympathizers and fellow travelers took over in the United States in the 1930s. It must be recognized that the power of these energetic Left wingers exercised was never their own power or Communist power but was ultimately the power of the international financial coterie, and, once the anger and suspicions of the American people were aroused as they were in the 1950s, it was a fairly simple matter to get rid of the Red sympathizers. Before this could be done, however, a congressional committee, following backward to their source the threads which led from the admitted Communists like Whittaker Chambers, through Alger Hiss, and the Carnegie Endowment to Thomas Lamont and the Morgan Bank, fell into the whole complicated network of the interlocking tax-exempt foundations. The Eighty-third Congress set up in 1953 a Special Reece Committee to investigate Tax-Exempt Foundations. It soon became clear that people of immense wealth would be unhappy if the investigation went too far and that the “most respected” newspapers in the country, closely allied with these men of wealth, would not get excited enough about any revelations to make the publicity worthwhile. An interesting report showing the Left-wing associations of interlocking nexus of tax-exempt foundations was issued in 1954 rather quietly. Four years later, the Reece Committee’s general counsel, Rene A Wormser, wrote a shocked, but not shocking, book on the subject called “Foundations: Their Power and Influence.”[6]:954-955 ”

    According to Quigley, the leaders of this group were Cecil Rhodes and Alfred Milner…http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carroll_Quigley

    You can keep following the tangled strands of Quigley’s international Anglophile network back to the London School of Economics, Bill Clinton, Tony Blair and the Fabian Society.

    Of special note is The Third Way philosophy from Professor Anthony Giddens, former director of the London School of Economics. The philosophy is heavily promoted by Tony Blair and Bill Clinton.
    http://www.europeanvoice.com/article/imported/centre-left-s-young-turks-seek-neo-conservative-inspiration/51890.aspx

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/298465.stm

    http://www.workinfo.com/econhist/thirdway.htm

  139. johanna says:

    DirkH says:
    March 13, 2012 at 8:23 am

    Liao has completely missed the obvious. You just mix some genes from Elysia Chlorotyca into the human genome and we will be able to stop working, stop eating, and process our own CO2 after we’ve eaten some algae.
    ————————————————-
    Unless they find a way to substitute chocolate for algae, it ain’t gonna fly, that dog’s not gonna hunt, etc.

    Question – why are the preferred paths of our moral superiors so focused on eating our veges? I almost typed ‘eating our greens’, but realised that it might be taking the love of a lean rib too far. Anyway, treating us all as toddlers, except with no chocolate pudding at the end, does seem to be part of the strategy.

  140. Ed, 'Mr.' Jones says:

    “Thomas says:
    March 13, 2012 at 8:53 am

    More CO2 craziness!”

    What’s crazy is that the solution of incorporating CO2 into Climate Control (very doable, I suspect) is not mentioned here.

    Common sense is an endangered trait.

    Perhaps CO2 destroys the common-sense pathways in the Human Brain.

  141. RobRoy says:

    After the stupid, the absurd. After the absurd, the scary.

  142. Garry says:

    Juraj V. says March 13, 2012 at 7:18 am: “Green Khmers all over again.”

    Good point, one I’ve often considered about the CAGW zealots.

    Denier Nurembergs (show trials); Heidi Cullen’s recent climate self-criticism sessions at George Mason Univ.; and now Prof. Liao’s climate eugenics.

    And so now we have the Khmer Vert.

  143. Gail Combs says:

    Meat Eating is essential for brain development in infants BTW. Darn I can not find my original source… Here are some others that have been watered down.

    Iron deficiency anemia in early life is related to altered behavioral and neural development. Studies in human infants suggest that this is an irreversible effect that may be related to changes in chemistry of neurotransmitters, organization and morphology of neuronal networks, and neurobiology of myelination. The acquisition of iron by the brain is an age-related and brain-region-dependent process with tightly controlled rates of movement of iron across the blood-brain barrier. Dopamine receptors and transporters are altered as are behaviors related to this neurotransmitter. The growing body of evidence suggests that brain iron deficiency in early life has multiple consequences in neurochemistry and neurobiology.

    Iron deficiency is reported to be the most prevalent nutritional problem in the world today with an estimated 2.5–5 billion people so afflicted….. http://jn.nutrition.org/content/133/5/1468S.full

    DHA (docosahexaenoic acid) and AA (arachidonic acid) are both crucial to the optimal development of the brain and eyes. During pregnancy the mother supplies the developing fetus with these fatty acids, and she continues to provide this important brain food to her infant through breast milk.

    Specific deficits of essential fatty acids in fetal umbilical cords at birth correlate to low birth weight, small head circumference, and low placental size.5 This is significant, because birth weight and head size are associated with growth factors that influence later development of the central nervous system and cognitive ability.6 http://www.fi.edu/learn/brain/fats.html

    Here is more important info:
    Sialic Acid [Sias] Is an Essential Nutrient for Brain Development and Cognition: http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.nutr.28.061807.155515

    But of course we have to have the studies that warn against Sialic Acids.

    Recent data indicate that the biology of sialic acids (which directly involves less than 60 genes) shows more than 10 uniquely human genetic changes in comparison with our closest evolutionary relatives…. Specific events include Alu-mediated inactivation of the CMAH gene, resulting in loss of synthesis of the Sia N-glycolylneuraminic acid (Neu5Gc) and increase in expression of the precursor N-acetylneuraminic acid (Neu5Ac) …..

    Because Sias are not found in plants, and Neu5Gc is not synthesized by microbes, the dietary source of Neu5Gc must be foods of animal origin. Major sources appear to be red meats (i.e., lamb, pork, and beef) and, to a lesser extent, milk products (76). In contrast, Neu5Gc is not found in poultry, and amounts in fish seem to be low (76). Thus, within limits of current analyses, the primary source of human tissue Neu5Gc appears to be foods of mammalian origin In this regard, many epidemiological studies have shown an association of red meat ingestion with increased risk for various diseases, including carcinomas (82–84), atherosclerosis (82, 84), type-2 diabetes (85), and age-dependent macular degeneration (86). Although there are other theories for how red meat consumption aggravates these diseases, most of these notions (other than the role of saturated fats in atherosclerosis) are unproven… http://www.pnas.org/content/107/suppl.2/8939.full

    At least they are nice enough to show the theories are unproven

  144. jlc says:

    Liao – Laughing its a** off?

  145. Billy says:

    “But at the end of the day those are crude prescriptions—what we really care about is some kind of fixed allocation of greenhouse gas emissions per family..”
    ——————————————-
    Would this entail the installation of smart meters in body orifices? What would be done if emissions are over limit? Disgusting and frightening really.

  146. Nerd says:

    Alan Watts,

    They did genetic testing to compare human to apes… here’s what they found…
    Dear Mr. Pye:
    I agree with your conclusions [that humans are genetically engineered] and will give you a few hints, if you wish [speaking] as a “DNA Deep Throat.” First, look up the huge discontinuities between humans and the various apes for: (1) Whole mitochondrial DNA; (2) genes for the Rh Factor; (3) and human Y chromosomes, among others.

    Regarding #3, I refer you to K.D. Smith’s 1987 study titled “Repeated DNA sequences of the human Y chromosome.” It says “Most human Y chromosome sequences thus far examined do not have homologues [same relative position or structure] on the Y chromosomes of other primates.” Human female X chromosomes do look somewhat apelike, but not the male’s Y.

    This means that if humans are a crossbred species, the cross had to be between a female ape-like creature [i.e, “creature of Earth”] and a male being from elsewhere.

    http://www.lloydpye.com/breakingnews_dnadeepthroat.htm

    Perhaps, those Russian scientists were using wrong kind of apes (Neanderthal? Denisova?)…

  147. Ted G says:

    How Engineering the Human Body Could Combat Climate Change or Modify humans’ to combat climate change – or Madness breaks out at the lab- run for your life!
    April 1 2012

    The threat of global climate change has prompted us to redesign many of our technologies to be more energy-efficient, the human body has its own ecological footprint, and there are more of them than ever before. So, some scholars are asking, what if we could engineer human beings to be more energy efficient?
    A new paper to be published in Ethics, Policy & Environment proposes a series of biomedical modifications that could help humans, themselves, consume less.

    Some of the proposed modifications are simple and noninvasive. For instance, many people wish to give up meat for ecological reasons, but lack the willpower to do so on their own.

    The paper suggests that such individuals could take a pill that would trigger mild nausea upon the ingestion of meat, which would then lead to a lasting aversion to meat-eating.

    Other techniques are bound to be more controversial. For instance, the paper suggests that parents could make use of genetic engineering or hormone therapy in order to birth smaller, less resource-intensive children.

    “Less resource-intensive children”?? But it’s OK because it would all be voluntary (for now, that is):

    Neither Liao or his co-authors, Anders Sandberg and Rebecca Roache of Oxford, approve of any coercive human engineering; they favor modifications borne of individual choices, not technocratic mandates.

    And if you believe that the eco-totalitarians will exercise restraint when it comes to their crusade to “save the planet”, then more fool you.

    Congratulations to the authors of this paper for once again exposing the dangerous dictatorial instincts of extreme greens.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/03/how-engineering-the-human-body-could-combat-climate-change/253981/

  148. Nerd says:

    Gail Combs says:

    March 13, 2012 at 9:34 am

    Meat Eating is essential for brain development in infants BTW. Darn I can not find my original source… Here are some others that have been watered down.
    ===============

    You forgot about widespread vitamin D deficiency no thanks to idiotic Sun Scare thing. Vitamin D gets converted into powerful steriod hormone that acts as DNA repair and regulator… Ever wonder why we are seeing more and more autism cases? All austitic kids have very low vitamin D level that most medical doctors are overlooking!

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17920208

    Dr. Cannell noted that once autistic kids corrected their severe vitamin D deficiency, they started to function better!

  149. paul milligan says:

    “Also, as we envisage it, human engineering would be a voluntary activity – possibly supported by
    incentives such as tax breaks or sponsored health care – rather than a coerced, mandatory
    activity.”

    Um….that doesn’t sound very voluntary.

  150. Tim Ball says:

    A couple of comments refer to Paul Ehrlich’s work on population. What they neglect to mention is that John Holdren, Obama’s science czar co-authored with Ehrlich. He also worked with the people at the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) as disclosed in the leaked emails to discredit Soon and Baliumas in the effort to support Mann’s hockey stick. His behaviour in this at Harvard is deeply disturbing.

    http://drtimball.com/2009/john-holdren/

    Holdren was questioned about his views on population control, summarized below from an article here, http://zombietime.com/john_holdren/ when he was before Congress, but said he no longer held them.

    • Women could be forced to abort their pregnancies, whether they wanted to or not;
    • The population at large could be sterilized by infertility drugs intentionally put into the nation’s drinking water or in food;
    • Single mothers and teen mothers should have their babies seized from them against their will and given away to other couples to raise;
    • People who “contribute to social deterioration” (i.e. undesirables) “can be required by law to exercise reproductive responsibility” — in other words, be compelled to have abortions or be sterilized.
    • A transnational “Planetary Regime” should assume control of the global economy and also dictate the most intimate details of Americans’ lives — using an armed international police force.

  151. Gail Combs says:

    Nerd says:
    March 13, 2012 at 10:01 am

    You forgot about widespread vitamin D deficiency no thanks to idiotic Sun Scare thing. Vitamin D gets converted into powerful steriod hormone that acts as DNA repair and regulator… Ever wonder why we are seeing more and more autism cases? All austitic kids have very low vitamin D level that most medical doctors are overlooking!

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17920208

    Dr. Cannell noted that once autistic kids corrected their severe vitamin D deficiency, they started to function better!
    ____________________________
    Nerd, Thanks!!!

    I knew about the vitamin D deficiency but I was unaware of “… Dr. Cannell noted that once autistic kids corrected their severe vitamin D deficiency, they started to function better!…”

    My favorite Cousin’s boy is autistic and I sometimes encounter autistic kids so I will pass that on. (One parent I talked to found wheat was a trigger BTW)

  152. Kitefreak says:

    BBBaz says:
    March 13, 2012 at 1:02 am

    BBBaz above last line should read, Google “factory grown meat”
    ———————————————————
    I propose “websearch” as the non-proprietary alternative to the verb “Google”. It’s only two syllables and leaves open the idea that web searches can be done with something other than the lying, cheating, free-speech denying Google/NSA!

    The BBC have been pushing this brazen eugenics stuff for years:

    “Evolutionary theorist Oliver Curry of the London School of Economics expects a genetic upper class and a dim-witted underclass to emerge.”

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6057734.stm

  153. Tim Fitzgerald says:

    The meat aversion plan reminds me of Alex’s therapy session in A Clockwork Orange.

  154. Gail Combs says:

    Tim Ball says:
    March 13, 2012 at 11:03 am

    ….. What they neglect to mention is that John Holdren, Obama’s science czar…
    ___________________________________
    Thank you Dr. Ball those guys are really scary!
    Holdren along with the Ehrlichs wrote in their 1973 book Human Ecology: Problems and Solutions.

    “A massive campaign must be launched to restore a high-quality environment in North America and to de-develop the United States…”

    “Resources must be diverted from frivolous and wasteful uses in overdeveloped countries to filling the genuine needs of underdeveloped countries,” Holdren and his co-authors wrote. “This effort must be largely political, especially with regard to our overexploitation of world resources, but the campaign should be strongly supplemented by legal and boycott action against polluters and others whose activities damage the environment. The need for de-development presents our economists with a major challenge. They must design a stable, low-consumption economy in which there is a much more equitable distribution of wealth than in the present one. Redistribution of wealth both within and among nations is absolutely essential, if a decent life is to be provided for every human being.”

    How the heck did we ever end up with these blatant traitors in such positions of power?

  155. GeoLurking says:

    Gail Combs [March 13, 2012 at 11:49 am]

    “…How the heck did we ever end up with these blatant traitors in such positions of power?”

    Oh that’s an easy one. Idiots voted them into power.

    The Media hid any issues that many people would have had with the candidates and marginalized anyone who had a contrary opinion.

    A corollary to the Peter Principle is that you get what you vote for.

  156. DirkH says:

    Gail Combs says:
    March 13, 2012 at 11:49 am
    “How the heck did we ever end up with these blatant traitors in such positions of power?”

    Elections.

  157. DirkH says:

    johanna says:
    March 13, 2012 at 9:01 am
    “DirkH says:
    March 13, 2012 at 8:23 am

    Liao has completely missed the obvious. You just mix some genes from Elysia Chlorotyca into the human genome and we will be able to stop working, stop eating, and process our own CO2 after we’ve eaten some algae.
    ————————————————-
    Unless they find a way to substitute chocolate for algae, it ain’t gonna fly, that dog’s not gonna hunt, etc.”

    Johanna, did you look up Elysia Chlorotyca ? Also called the eastern emerald elysia.
    http://labs1.eol.org/pages/450768/overview

  158. Blair says:

    With the acceptance of eugenics by the progressives, will the science of phrenology be returning to it’s rightful place in academia too?

  159. GeoLurking says:

    Alright, I have been kicking around about whether to post this or not, I didn’t want to seem insensitive to people of Asian decent…

    But, yet another brilliant idea that was brought to bear… was the Gaussian Coupola, to the risk calculations of the bundled mortgage instruments.

    It was a way of getting a handle on rating just how dangerous a particular instrument was and let you determine what sort of yeild it should have.

    At least in David X. Li’s defense, he stated “The most dangerous part is when people believe everything coming out of it.” So.. at least he was pragmatic about it and didn’t fully buy into his own idea.

    Too bad the financial decision makers didn’t heed his advise.

    “Recipe for Disaster: The Formula That Killed Wall Street”

    http://www.wired.com/techbiz/it/magazine/17-03/wp_quant?currentPage=all

  160. Kitefreak says:

    It says in the article/interview something really stupid about patches to help you not eat meat. Unbelievable.

    And what do we get from the BBC today? Only red meat really increases your cancer risk:
    “Red meat increases death, cancer and heart risk, says study”:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17345967

    Ever get the feeling the whole global media is totally controlled and singing from the same (satanic) hymn sheet? Bit of synchronicity going on here, but not the proper, natural kind?

    Certainly as regards the US mainstream “news” media, this clip is a beaut at illustrating the point:

  161. TANSTAAFL says:

    Wait, didn’t they try that already with the New Soviet Man?

  162. w.w.wygart says:

    Have you ever noticed how some pet owners turn their pets into people? and that others turn people into pets?

    An excerpt form a letter from Aldous Huxley to George Orwell in 1949 after reading the latter’s book:

    The philosophy of the ruling minority in Nineteen Eighty-Four is a sadism which has been carried to its logical conclusion by going beyond sex and denying it.

    Whether in actual fact the policy of the boot-on-the-face can go on indefinitely seems doubtful.

    My own belief is that the ruling oligarchy will find less arduous and wasteful ways of governing and of satisfying its lust for power, and these ways will resemble those which I described in Brave New World.

    There seems to be this very well intentioned totalitarian impulse built into the human brain, to propose systems of complete control over the individual as the only rational solution to whatever the problem of the day happens to be, maybe THAT is a candidate for removal by ‘human engineering’, something that actually makes us more human, rather than turns us into somebody else’s pets.

    W^3

  163. LamontT says:

    Just a small note on the size thing. Smaller creatures often have higher metabolisms not lower metabolisms.

  164. johanna says:

    DirkH says:
    March 13, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    johanna says:
    March 13, 2012 at 9:01 am
    “DirkH says:
    March 13, 2012 at 8:23 am

    Liao has completely missed the obvious. You just mix some genes from Elysia Chlorotyca into the human genome and we will be able to stop working, stop eating, and process our own CO2 after we’ve eaten some algae.
    ————————————————-
    Unless they find a way to substitute chocolate for algae, it ain’t gonna fly, that dog’s not gonna hunt, etc.”

    Johanna, did you look up Elysia Chlorotyca ? Also called the eastern emerald elysia.
    http://labs1.eol.org/pages/450768/overview
    —————————————————-
    Yeah, it’s a little perpetual motion machine, eh? But unless chocolate is the starter culture, it will never catch on.

  165. 3x2 says:

    You have to wonder at the distance between a guy who would gladly build a car (given the opportunity) to feed his family while living under a river bridge in California and some bunch of parasitic academics who met on some taxpayer funded jaunt to a tropical island and, during the monday bongfest, decided to write a joint ‘paper’ about ‘possible solutions to non existent problems’.

    This thieves paradise will end soon and I hope, when it does, that Liao finds himself living under the same bridge. He can explain his theories in excruciating detail to those he has robbed. Good luck with that prof…click click

  166. APACHEWHOKNOWS says:

    Well, North Korea has a rather brutal head start on the make the subjects smaller.

  167. Frank Kotler says:

    No pills required – just let the meat spoil. Reduces need for refrigeration as a side benefit!

    Meowing mad!

  168. IAmDigitap says:

    Everywhere I’ve ever debated warmer trash, the ‘we must sterilize the ‘unwanted’ – you know what that means – B.R.O.W.N. people’ before we all die’ class of kooks has come out.

    At first I was apalled. Then I learned the ORIGINAL Magic Gasser, was a Eugenics expert who sterilized Sweden’s mentally ill, and taught the leadership of the actual, Sprekkin Zee German Nazi party, before they kicked off the party called WW2.

    You think it’s wrong for me to point this out? GO to a WARMER SITE and LOOK: you are going to see ‘STERILIZE the UNWANTED PEOPLE so WE don’t have to SUFFER’ all over the place.

    I come from many years of law enforcement talk with my pop who drove up to many a melee so crazies don’t give me the mental meltdowns they do most people, but if you want to see the most evil in the most modern guise, the FIRST place I’d suggest is WarmerVille.

  169. AnonyMoose says:

    One of the good comments on the Atlantic article:
    “We need a drug to make us resistant to worthless research papers.”

  170. Myrrh says:

    Nerd says:
    March 13, 2012 at 10:01 am
    Gail Combs says:

    March 13, 2012 at 9:34 am

    Meat Eating is essential for brain development in infants BTW. Darn I can not find my original source… Here are some others that have been watered down.
    ===============

    You forgot about widespread vitamin D deficiency no thanks to idiotic Sun Scare thing. Vitamin D gets converted into powerful steriod hormone that acts as DNA repair and regulator… Ever wonder why we are seeing more and more autism cases? All austitic kids have very low vitamin D level that most medical doctors are overlooking!

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17920208

    Dr. Cannell noted that once autistic kids corrected their severe vitamin D deficiency, they started to function better!

    ========
    How Sunlight Can Save Your Life
    Part 1
    By Oliver Gillie
    The Independent – UK
    It’s the great cancer cover-up. Panicked into avoiding sunlight by health experts, we are now dying in our thousands from diseases linked to deficiencies of vitamin D. But still the exaggerated warnings come. Oliver Gillie reveals how sunbathing can save your life…
    http://www.rense.com/general48/sunlight1.htm

    ================

    And while I’m fetching –

    THE IMPORTANCE OF CARBON DIOXIDE TO YOUR HEALTH

    Also consider: we would die if we did not breathe in such a way as to retain very close to 65,000 ppm (6.5%) of CO2 in the alveoli (tiny air sacs) of our lungs.

    http://theroadtoemmaus.org/RdLb/11Phl/Sci/CO2&Health.html

  171. Mike M says:

    This guy needs a whole term to describe him – umm: a Climacootie? or a Warmanaliar? (Homer dialect) or a CatastroCastro?

  172. Kip Hansen says:

    I suggest reading Liao’s paper. He has been pushing the idea of genetically designing children for a number of years. This is his salvo to try to get the idea recognized by tying it to the climate change gravy train. found at http://www.smatthewliao.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/HEandClimateChange.pdf

  173. DirkH says:

    johanna says:
    March 13, 2012 at 1:18 pm
    “Johanna, did you look up Elysia Chlorotyca ? Also called the eastern emerald elysia.
    http://labs1.eol.org/pages/450768/overview
    —————————————————-
    Yeah, it’s a little perpetual motion machine, eh? But unless chocolate is the starter culture, it will never catch on.”

    Should be no problem:
    http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2008/0317824.html

  174. Mickey Reno says:

    Judith Curry posted a link to another paper of similar vein by Philip Cafaro, a philosophy professor at Colorado State Univ. who claims to be a “Climate Ethicist” and has written a paper discussing how to reduce the population of the planet through coercive birth control policies in the developed world. I don’t think he knows how to do math, because if he did, he’d realize that without immigration, most of the Western world would be shrinking in population already.

    His paper is here: http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=cGhpbGlwY2FmYXJvLmNvbXx3d3d8Z3g6M2FiMThhYWUyYmI1OTlhYw

  175. DirkH says:

    Great – In Liao’s paper, under

    “IV. Potential Concerns Regarding Human Engineering”

    he mentions safety, and ponders questions like “Is it ethical for parents to make choices that may irreversibly affect their children’s lives?”, but not once does it occur to him that maybe people are just not that keen on his ideas and he should better design some cool re-education camps first. And the logical consequence, that you would end up with a totalitarian regime, is completely beyond his ethicist mental horizon.

    Is ethicist paid so badly these days that they only get bad forgers (Gleick), apologists for said forgers (James Garvey), and wannabe super villains (Liao)?

  176. Myrrh says:

    Tim Ball says:
    March 13, 2012 at 11:03 am
    A couple of comments refer to Paul Ehrlich’s work on population. What they neglect to mention is that John Holdren, Obama’s science czar co-authored with Ehrlich. He also worked with the people at the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) as disclosed in the leaked emails to discredit Soon and Baliumas in the effort to support Mann’s hockey stick. His behaviour in this at Harvard is deeply disturbing.

    Holdren was questioned about his views on population control, summarized below from an article here, http://zombietime.com/john_holdren/ when he was before Congress, but said he no longer held them.

    • Women could be forced to abort their pregnancies, whether they wanted to or not;
    • The population at large could be sterilized by infertility drugs intentionally put into the nation’s drinking water or in food;
    • Single mothers and teen mothers should have their babies seized from them against their will and given away to other couples to raise;
    • People who “contribute to social deterioration” (i.e. undesirables) “can be required by law to exercise reproductive responsibility” — in other words, be compelled to have abortions or be sterilized.
    • A transnational “Planetary Regime” should assume control of the global economy and also dictate the most intimate details of Americans’ lives — using an armed international police force.

    =============================

    The Harvard connection ties in with Tickell

    “Inaugural Senior Visiting Fellow at the Harvard University Center for the Environment (2002-2004);
    and Advisor at Large to the President of Arizona State University (2004 -present).”
    http://sustainability.asu.edu/people/persbio-director.php?pid=4809

    Delingpole presents an essay on Tickell:

    “..here is a fascinating essay from Ishmael2009 (not his real name) on Sir Crispin Tickell is one of the chief architects of Man Made Global Warming’s towering cathedral of half truths, exaggeration, hysteria and Neo-Malthusian lunacy. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you, the mighty Ishmael2009…..

    “Our Man at the Climate Summit: Essay on Sir Crispin Tickell

    “Sir Crispin Charles Cervantes Tickell is one of the most influential people behind the idea of man-made global warming. Yet you could easily be forgiven for having never heard of him.
    ..
    “After starting as a bright young thing with the civil service, he spent two years at Harvard, where he addressed himself to the up and coming subject of climate change, the result of which was his 1977 book Climactic Change and World Affairs, a work that detailed the threat posed to Western civilization by possible changes in the world climate. It made his name, and on his return Tickell was made Chef de Cabinet to the President of the European Commission and afterwards advisor to the Thatcher government, where he was instrumental in persuading leading politicians to put global warming on the political agenda”
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100069775/the-man-who-invented-global-warming/

    And, Tickell’s family connection to Julian Huxley and so to Huxley’s eugenics plan to introduce it under another form:

    “Huxley’s cousin, Sir Crispin Tickell, a sometime featured speaker to the British Eugenics Society, who once proclaimed that “Mankind is a disease”, personally launched the present crusade against so-called “global warming” in the late 1970s, boasting that as British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher’s principal science adviser, he had “persuaded her of the importance of climate change”. Among his other activities, Tickell wrote Thatcher’s speeches on climate change, including her 1988 speech to the UN as the first national leader to demand global action; he directed Thatcher to pour funds for the study of global warming into the British Meteorological Office led by John Houghton, which along with the discredited Climatic Research Unit at East Anglia University is the source of most of the harum-scarum, idiotic computer-modelled climate change scenarios; and as British Ambassador to the UN from 1987-1990, he organised the establishment of the presently dictatorial Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) in 1988, with Houghton chairing its scientific assessment office. Britain’s current high priest of climate change, Sir Nicholas Stern, is Tickell’s protégé. (See Aug/Sept 2009 “Carbon trading is Hitler-style Genocide”, for more.)”

    http://cecaust.com.au/main.asp?sub=releases&id=2011_03_04_Brown_Queen.html

    ===============

    ..connections, connections..

  177. RoHa says:

    Yea! I always wanted to be a cat person! But could I have eagle wings as well?

  178. David Falkner says:

    You want to talk about eugenics? Check out this article from The Journal of Medical Ethics (stop snickering guys, the mic is on!!)

    http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/2012/03/01/medethics-2011-100411.full

    It’s pretty sick stuff. And chock full of such wonderful logical gems like, “Merely being human is not in itself a reason for ascribing someone a right to life.”

  179. corporate message says:

    “A hundred years ago people were much shorter on average, and there was nothing wrong with them medically.”
    Sure there was. Lots of infectious disease has been knocked down, Another example is that even into the 1930′s lots of people in the more rural areas never owned a toothbrush, ate sweets, and lost their teeth by their twenties.

    What would be the reason that noticably short peoples immigrating to North America have children a foot taller than they are , by age 15….the kids have medical care and more/better nutrition than their parents.

    For Lioa to EVEN SUGGEST that a new tallness trait penetrated the North American Population to this extent, this fast, through genetic change, is …is…

    ah, forget it.

  180. Merovign says:

    Good to know taxpayer money is still paying for ignorant, spiteful, dribbling rubbish.

    Oy vey. What dross.

  181. Jeff Alberts says:

    Marian says:
    March 13, 2012 at 12:46 am

    Aren’t some bird and animal species supposedly shrinking because of climate change. If that is really true evolution will naturally adapt and start shrinking humans then aswell.

    Probably not. Humans are no longer at the mercy of the environment. We change our personal climate to suit us. We turn on the AC when it’s hot, and turn up the heat when it’s cold. We live inside instead of out in the elements. We don’t have to hunt to survive. Humans are no longer part of “survival of the fittest”, I mean just look at Pat Robertson.

  182. EO Peter says:

    To: Gail Combs
    About vitamin D supplement, it is the D3 (Calciol aka Cholecalciferol) one that shall be used!
    Avoid the D2 version (Ergosterol), it is the vegetal version of the molecule.

    Sorry about being little off topic, but when I see comment about the use of Vit.D, I fell compelled to provide this info that I consider important.

    However, the story of Vit.D2 use is not completly off topic if we make some parallel w/t scientific claim on CO2. In fact this is just another exemple of scientist lurring themself & everyone thinking Vit.D2 is the same thing as the real stuff our molecular machinery is designed to work with. This was probably a consensus… But interestingly there was monetary interest involved at selling D2.

    Frankly, thinking we are near “implementing” genetic engineering on human is another proof of disconnection to reality! A complete understanding of the inner molecular working of our basic builting block, the cell, has not been acheived yet. As an exemple: it is not because we are now capable of reading & disasembling the firmware (DNA) of a processor, that we know & can reproduce the innerworking of that circuit. Cancer is hard to cure because cancer is a major disfunction of the cell machineries.

    In fact, me think that any attempt at genetic manipulation on human before we master a reasonably complete understanding at “how we work internally” will endup invariably in disaster… When I talk about reasonable undestanding, I meant at least be able to cure EVERY existing diseases & be able to maintaint life function as it is for an indefinite amount of time. In my book we call it immortality, now this is some serious science-fiction is’nt it? Call it fantasy but I call it logic reason; We should be at least able to maintain something in its actual form & be capable of doing repair before doing wet dream about improvement & redesign…

    This line of thinking is also completly applicable to environmental science.

    Remember something like: First you shall do no harm.

  183. Leo Morgan says:

    Aristotle said “It is the mark of an educated mind it be able to entertain an idea without accepting it.”
    What are these guys really doing? Are they proposing a serious social agenda? Maybe, but I don’t believe it. I’ll give my reasons shortly.
    Are they just playing with ideas? If so, great. I enjoyed the similar ideas put forward on 1977 by Science Fiction author Colin Kapp. As Aristotle’s quote indicates, that’s something that educated people do.
    However, I see that a lot of his earlier work involves the study of people’s intuitive moral reactions to hypothetical situations. I suggest we’re not the observers of his study, we’re the subjects of it.
    O course, the study might still be flawed if he was trying to find out how far people would go in support of an idea that ‘everybody agrees is good’.
    I said I’d give my reasons for thinking he’s not proposing a social agenda. Here they are:
    Firstly, he’s a professor of philosophy not bioengineering.
    Secondly, we don’t have the technology to achieve the results he outlines.
    Thirdly I’m sure he’s as aware as everybody else that voluntary take-up of the proposals would be so small as to make them meaningless in terms of the stated goals.
    Fourth, any serious proposal to use bioengineering to reduce climate change would not limit itself just to changing humans.
    There are more reasons, but four is enough to go on with.
    So lets entertain the idea. Let us be able to say, as we do with the carbon-reduction plans of the CAGW crowd, we’ve thought about this, we’ve concluded it’s a really dumb idea, and we know the reasons why its a dumb idea.

  184. Simeon says:

    oh boy an army of environmentally friendly übermensch.

  185. John Kettlewell says:

    Nice to see the recognition of how intertwined many issues are; and how they will generally if not always revert to the primal. Population Control, thru many avenues. Eugenics is inevitable. Rational thinking is more circular than linear; extreme rationale eventually crosses over into the irrational. The is always one more ‘improvement’ to implement.

    ‘Birth control’ for low or no cost. Sound familiar? It’s not just condoms and a pill. Less babies, less burdens is the maxim. The revival of Buck v. Bell is near.

  186. jorgekafkazar says:

    The Circus of Dr. Liao…

  187. Craig Loehle says:

    What would REALLY be useful would be better BS detectors and a reduced tendency to freak out about imaginary dangers.

  188. Sparks says:

    Nitrous oxide (laughing gas) is considered to be a greenhouse gas and levels have been rising, therefor we need to genetically engineer people without any teeth and just fit them with false ones.
    Yep.. put me down for a research grant, I have this science stuff worked out!!

  189. Jimbo says:

    Harold Ambler has an interesting take on this paper. He calls it an historic event. I do hope he’s wrong. :-(

    As happens with historic events, most people are missing the meaning of the event as it happens in real time. That was true when Jesus of Nazareth was pulled from the cross (just another criminal’s body to be disposed of), and it was true when Adolf Hitler, new chancellor of Germany, ordered the sterilization of mental defectives in 1933.

    What, you’re asking, could have happened to rival momentous events in history like these? It is simply the publication of an academic paper that presages the death of science, and indeed the death of reason, in the West…………………….
    …………………………………………………………….
    If the rush to annihilate science and reason continues for another human generation, as appears likely, you will not be able to say that you did not see the signs. You will not be able to say that you did not understand what was happening. You saw and you knew.
    http://talkingabouttheweather.wordpress.com/2012/03/12/of-meat-patches-and-cat-eyes/

  190. Keith Sketchley says:

    I’m ROFL at the aluminum foil hat picture, which was used by local columnist Tom Fletcher in a blog post on the irrational objectors to radio signals from “smart meters”.

    My impression of the interview is the supposed ethics person is “meally-mouthed”, dancing around on ethics, including the term “weakness of will”.
    Does he clearly say what he thinks is ethical if people don’t adopt the breeding/genetic changes he advocates? Atlantic magazine says he rejects forcing, but given that the climate alarmists he blindly believes obviously want to force people and believe it is their right to …… He says a reason for his suggestions is that people aren’t following the Kyoto Protocol etc. – what next? He claims global warming is a serious problem, human caused, that will harm millions of people.

    It’s a control-freak’s weasel-worded solution to a Chicken Little theory by scare-mongering control freaks (neo-Marxists who can’t get their ethics right let alone their science).

  191. Myrrh says:

    The narrative changed among the eugenics ideologues after gauging the widespread repugnance to which these ideas had been put into practice during WWII, as Julian Huxley himself said:

    “Julian Huxley, the vice president of Britain’s Eugenics Society (1937-1944), had announced in 1946, “even though it is quite true that radical eugenic policy will be for many years politically and psychologically impossible, it will be important for UNESCO to see that the eugenic problem is examined with the greatest care and that the public mind is informed of the issues at stake so that much that now is unthinkable may at least become thinkable.” Huxley was then director-general of the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization (UNESCO).”

    And,
    “Prince Philip joined with the Netherlands’ Prince Bernhard—a former member of Hitler’s SS—and British Eugenics Society President Sir Julian Huxley in 1961 to found the World Wildlife Fund (WWF), to raise funds for Huxley’s International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN); Huxley stated that the goal of the new IUCN/WWF-led movement of “environmentalism” was to implement the racist goals of eugenics, but “by other language”, given that Hitler had given eugenics a bad name.”

    From previous links, http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/Articles%202007/GWHoaxBorn.pdf and http://cecaust.com.au/main.asp?sub=releases&id=2011_03_04_Brown_Queen.html

    Good points here re this: http://www.lorejournal.org/tag/sinister-science/
    Sinister Science: Eugenics, Nazism, and the Technocratic Rhetoric of the Human Betterment Foundation by Katherine Swift, San Diego State

    “My analysis of the rhetorical history of the HBF [Human Betterment Foundation] undermines the notion of a “reform” eugenics succeeding “mainline” eugenics by demonstrating, instead, the rhetorical transition from a discredited hereditarian eugenics to an authoritarian socio-scientific eugenics. The HBF’s transmutation from eugenic sterilization to voluntary sterilization is indicative of this new rhetorical strategy of post-WWII eugenicists as they adapted to the prevailing ethos, pathos, and logos of a war-weary public and sought to regain their credibility as technocratic experts for the public good. Furthermore, the narrative history of the HBF greatly complicates the current discussion that takes for granted the idea that family planning, genetic counseling, and population control are all aspects of social “progressivism.” The rhetorical history of the HBF reveals that what some historians have insisted is the post WWII transformation from mainline to reform eugenics is, in fact, the conscious rhetorical and ideological transition from hereditarian to socio-scientific eugenics in order to maintain the viability of a eugenic technocracy in the face of the discredited science of its former political initiatives.
    “Burke cautions against the rise of “sinister science” in fascist regimes where universal principles of scientific clarity and fairness are subsumed to the exigencies of national security (A Rhetoric of Motives 35). The technocratic topoi linking EngenderHealth, the Human Betterment Foundation, and Nazi race hygiene programs suggests a rhetoric of motives that begs for broader explication especially in current debate over fertility control and limits to population growth. After all, just whose population is on the table in such discussions? As has been said many times already, those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it. Without the countervailing balance of an informed and responsible public rhetoric, the long shadow of eugenics will continue to cast a sinister pall over ethical considerations in genetics, medicine, and the human sciences.”

    This ideology appears to be the single stream running through the background in the lives of the big players here, even the bankers while obviously enjoying the fruits of their creation of money out of thin air are using it to further this cause – it used to be that bankers just played both sides in a war by lending to the protagonists and the step to creating wars to make more money an obvious one, so the military/industrial complex, and of course we all get played for suckers by their system, but their involvement in getting the eugenics movement up and running is key to understanding the funding behind all these social engineering foundations and greenie organisations and especially in providing the monetary incentive for the fraudulent science keeping the AGW con mainstream.

    http://www.infowars.com/jay-rockefeller-cant-deny-his-connection-to-modern-eugenics/

    How can one possibly convey all of this with its convoluted connections for it to be ‘a history we remember’ so as not to repeat it? Is it enough to bring down one of the pillars holding it up, say the debt money system of bankers creating money out of thin air or the AGW scam? Would that bring the rest down? Even if it did, without the connections being known how is that going to be of value to future generations if this eugenic ideology isn’t known by the majority of us? We won’t have anything to pass down to remember.

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