Kyoto – in the past for Canada

More at BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-16151310

UPI says:

The cost of meeting Canada’s obligations under Kyoto would be $13.6 billion, Kent said.

“That’s $1,600 from every Canadian family — that’s the Kyoto cost to Canadians, that was the legacy of an incompetent liberal government,” the Conservative minister said.

At the Toronto Sun:

Over the weekend, the 195 members of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change finished a record-breaking, marathon session two days behind schedule in Durban, and charted a course toward a new regime to be finalized by 2015 in an effort to stave off dangerous human interference with the atmosphere.

The framework agreement salvaged the Kyoto Protocol, but it became clear that it would not include Canada’s participation.

Before he returned to Canada, Kent told reporters that the government was justified in its action.

“We want to avoid another Kyoto-like pact at all costs,” said Kent at the summit in South Africa. “Kyoto was not effective and was not good for Canada. The previous government should not have ratified it.”

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236 thoughts on “Kyoto – in the past for Canada

  1. As a some time critic of Canadian Conservative national politics, I can only applaud the courage,and Honesty of Peter Kent,and our government, to withdraw from this Political patchwork of unelected,self serving scientifically uninformed, global party goers. They, looking for further handouts,from ALL of us, to enrich themselves,is nothing short of despicable. The IPCC,and U.N. does,and will continue to mis-allocate resources to the corrupt, from those really in need,our worlds’ Poor.

  2. Thanks for the post Anthony. Its in all the newspapers here and of course when something like this happens all the AGW believers come out in force condemning Canada. We’re having a lovely day up here and in case folks here worry we are abandoning the most vulnerable fear not.

    The Canadian Government is on track to double international assistance, with a planned budget of 5 billion dollars annually by 2010-2011.

    Furthermore, we have now met our G8 commitment of doubling aid to Africa-bringing the total to $2.1 billion for this year.

  3. YES!
    This is what we voted the Conservatives in for.
    Not junk science & UN to tax our economies into the red.
    (Gather they didn’t believe the memo from last week saying we would be out?)

  4. Whatever Canada’s reasons are for pulling out of Koyoto, it wont make one sod of difference to the world climate irrespective of what “the science” says.

  5. My first visit to Canada in 1976, Britain had a terrible drought that year – must have been Global Warming, no climate chan………. Loved Canada ever since. Award yourselves a public holiday, you could call it “No to Kyoto Day”, yeah that’ll work.

  6. The entire nation of Canada has roughly the population of the US state of California (last time I looked, might have changed). The amount of CO2 mitigation provided by the Kyoto protocol would be completely negligible on a global atmospheric scale. It would be completely impossible to even notice the decline. That completely negligible change in atmospheric CO2 would cost Canada $13.6 billion. Canada is making the right decision. They are going to stop paying the UN rent for their atmosphere.

    I should like to see more follow their example.

  7. at last a Government who puts the interests of its citizens first rather than wanting to strut upon the UN ineffectual stage

  8. Now admittedly it’s dangerous to suggest things like this based on the relative health and success of one government, but pretty much since Harper got a majority government I’ve been thinking the right strategy for the US might be an ‘elephant that roared’ – invade Canada, then capitulate.

  9. Kyoto is just a thing of the past. Children just aren’t going to know what Kyoto is. It was a very rare and unexciting event.

  10. God Bless Canada’s Conservative Government! Throw the Koolaid out the window. Nearly fourteen billion Canadian dollars saved from the Climate Pirates! Hurrah!

  11. I sent an email to Peter Kent last night thanking him for pulling out of Kyoto and for not joining Kyoto 2. I imagine most emails he gets are from Canadians screaming about why we should “join the fight against global warming”. We need to let our government officials know that most working, tax paying Canadian citizens do not believe in the global warming scam.

  12. Stephen Harper said he would do it, clearly and repeatedly for years. Then he got a conservative Majority government from the people of Canada, and the he did what he said he would do. A politician that stuck to his word against all the NGOs, the press and the consensus of the 7 ‘scientists’.

    Canada is out of Kyoto.

    “Kyoto is essentially a socialist scheme to suck money out of wealth-producing nations.”
    “Carbon dioxide is not a pollutant.”
    “Carbon dioxide which is a naturally occurring gas vital to the life cycles of this planet”
    “This may be a lot of fun for a few scientific and environmental elites in Ottawa, but ordinary Canadians from coast to coast will not put up with what this will do to their economy and lifestyle”
    “We can debate whether or not… CO₂ does or does not contribute to global warming. I think the jury is out.”
    “My party’s position on the Kyoto Protocol is clear and has been for a long time. We will oppose ratification of the Kyoto Protocol and its targets. We will work with the provinces and others to discourage the implementation of those targets. And we will rescind the targets when we have the opportunity to do so”
    “As economic policy, the Kyoto Accord is a disaster. As environmental policy it is a fraud”

    Stephen Harper, Prime Minister of Canada.

    (The NGOs hate the Canadian government :-)

    PS. The rest of you in the devolving (Kyoto) world, keep banging the rocks together.

  13. Compared with Canada for many years up to 2005 it’s like waking up and finding oneself in a different – and much better – country. (And we may finally lose the anti-free speech so called “Human Rights” tribunals – or at least their ability to carry out an inquisition against people who don’t toe the politically correct line – into the bargain.) Isn’t democracy wonderful! Your turn will come, Australia.

  14. Yeah, and the economy under the Maple Leaf is doing better than under the Gridiron, too.

    What’s the Standard & Poor’s rating on Canadian sovereign debt?

  15. Minister Combet has declared that Australia will not be entering into any commitments for the second Kyoto period.

  16. Pulling out of Kyoto…Producing petroleum from the Alberta oil sands…what’s not to like? Thank you Canada!!

  17. the right strategy for the US might be an ‘elephant that roared’ – invade Canada, then capitulate.

    Reminds me of an old Cold War joke.

    The Russians invade China.
    On the first day 10,000 Chinese surrender.
    On the second day 100,000 Chinese surrender.
    On the third day 10,000,000 Chinese surrender.
    On the fourth day Russia surrenders.

  18. [What’s the Standard & Poor’s rating on Canadian sovereign debt?]
    Country risk rankings (June 2011)
    Least risky countries, Score out of 100
    Rank Country Overall score
    1 Norway 92.44
    2 Luxembourg 90.86
    3 Switzerland 90.20
    4 Denmark 89.07
    5 Sweden 88.72
    6 Singapore 87.65
    7 Finland 87.31
    8 Canada 87.24

    We are fine, thanks for asking.

  19. From the BBC article: “Peter Kent said the protocol “does not represent a way forward for Canada” and the country would face crippling fines for failing to meet its targets.”

    Who would have the authority to fine a sovereign nation?

  20. Hopefully this is just the first crack. Canada can meet its relatively small aid obligations to Africa and other third world countries, but just where is a bankrupt Europe going to get its funding from?

    Same with Oz until they change their leaders. Sometimes it is good to live in a cold snowy country that needs carbon fuel to survive – be it wood or oil or gas or even bio fuels. It’s all carbon based … just like us and pretty much all other life on this planet.

    Wayne, from Faraway, Alberta, Canada.

  21. While I don’t support some initiatives of this government, like them investing vast quantities of tax dollars to “grow” the prison industry, I am really happy to see Canada take a strong stand against AGW insanity. Conservatives strike a blow for rationality.
    Now what to do with those 50 million doses of H1N1 vaccine mouldering in the back room? It’s so hard to keep one step ahead of the conmen, but at least we can revel in having the upper hand for a brief time.

  22. …. Sigh… Meanwhile in the Useless Stupid Soviet Republic of Gillard’s Australia…… We are gonna pay 23 perfectly good Aussie dollars for every ton of CO2 that we produce!…. It’s enough to send yer spare.

  23. Another Gareth: Where you been Andrew? The International Climate Court of Justice as proposed in point 78 in the draft proposal from Durban (FCCC/AWGLCA/2011/CRP.38)

  24. As a “minority elector” in the Saanich-Gulf Islands (Green Party Leader Elizabeth May’s riding) riding of British Columbia, I applaud this move away from the Kyoto nonsense, and can hardly wait for the bemoaning to accelerate. Including the less-than-scientific term “Mother Earth” in Durban will be seen as the last straw for many sitting on the CO2 fence.

    Congrats to Peter Kent, Stephen Harper, and, MP Michelle Rempel (Kent’s Parliamentary Secretary).

    It is worthwhile noting:

    1. Although Ms. May was elected this year, becoming the first Green Party member in North America, popular support for the Green Party in Canada plummeted by a whopping 57% from the 2008 election (6.78%) to the 2011 election (3.91%).

    2. Canada’s CO2 emissions, as of 2009, were below our 1997 emissions. Even though we are already cutting back, it won’t make a dent in total worldwide emissions unless China and India “fairly” reduce emissions…ain’t going to happen anytime soon.

    Canucks are catching on to this game…what are the rest of you waiting for?

  25. I had hoped that we would not withdraw from Kyoto. Then at the end of 2012 the UN would try to extract billions in reparations. That would force Canada to take the UN to court. Kyoto would not survive in the courts as it is based of fraud.

  26. “Who would have the authority to fine a sovereign nation?”

    Alas a whole shedload of sovereign nations in Europe have surrendered their sovereignty to an unelected dictatorship in Brussels and have given that unelected body the right to fine them.

  27. Here’s a quote from Canada’s largest daily the Toronto (red) Star ““The Harper government has imposed a death sentence on many of the world’s most vulnerable populations by pulling out of Kyoto,” Mike Hudema of Greenpeace Canada said in a statement.” Completely off the charts with that response, Pathetic.

  28. Over the past several months I have e-mailed and snail-mailed over 20 selected articles and commentaries mostly from WUWT, to Minister Kent and Prime Minister Harper that showed the flaws and faults of the UN IPCC’s “junk science”. Maybe, just maybe, it helped a little bit.
    Thanks Anthony et al.

  29. I’ll say it again … Oh, Canada!

    The government is going to take a beating for this, but it is the strongest move I’ve seen come from a government in years. Small population, but huge guts and large brains!

  30. Interesting that Kent was a true believer of CAGW back in the 1980 before her got involved in politics.

  31. “A beacon of light in a mad mad world.”

    Beacon yes, but their bacon is odd.

    Wait till they see the secret exit clause that you aren’t shown until after you commit to leaving but which they agreed to when signing. (its sort of like a EULA for the atmosphere … by opening the box you agree to the terms inside). /sarc

  32. One can only wonder.

    Will Obama come out saying that he’s got to kill carbon based restrictions on the American economy for fear that American industry will move north? He could claim he has no choice, those evil right wing capitalists in Canada forced him to do it….

  33. I likewise just sent my minister of environment a hearty atta boy. Steve Mc, Rex M, Ross M, and now Peter Kent! Definitely a good day to be a Canadian!! However our apologies for Suzuki… who has probably just gone ballistic:)

  34. it’s time now for a concerted effort by all countries outside the EU to shoot down the insane, unilateral ETS aviation tax. as every country’s airlines fly in and out of everywhere else, why on earth should the European Union be collecting taxes from the rest of the world?

    8 Dec: ICIS: EU carbon allowance allocation to airlines proceeds despite protest
    Meanwhile, after the European Court of Justice (ECJ) said it will rule on 21 December whether the EU’s inclusion of airlines in the ETS is legal (see EDCM 7 December 2011) – which is expected to give the move a green legal light – US Senator John Thune introduced a bill to block the inclusion of US airlines in the trading system.
    “The idea that the European Union has the right to tax American air passengers and carriers flies in the face of our country’s sovereignty,” Thune said in a statement on his website on Wednesday.
    “I reject this proposed European tax and will work with my colleagues in Congress and countless concerned stakeholders to block this tax.”…
    In 2012, airlines will receive 0.6797 free aviation emissions allowances for every 1,000 tonne-kilometre reported for 2010.
    A tonne-kilometre is a measure of the distance travelled and the total weight of load and passengers of flight.
    According to calculations by consulting firm Altimedes, British Airways will receive the most 2012 allowances, collecting around 4.82% of total free credits, amounting to 10.35m EUAs.
    It will be followed by Ryanair (5.6m EUAs), Iberia (4.6m), Emirates (4.3m) and Easy Jet (3.7m) as the top five recipients of free allowances in 2012.
    In 2013-2020, the allocation will fall to 0.64219 free aviation allowances per 1,000 tonne-kilometre reported for 2010.
    From 30 April 2013, flights landing or departing from airports within the territories of the EU states, as well as Norway, Liechtenstein and Iceland, will have to surrender EUAs matching their emissions in the previous year.
    Each year, airlines will receive some free EUAs and will have to buy any extras they need on the carbon market.

    http://www.icis.com/heren/articles/2011/12/08/9515194/eu-carbon-allowance-allocation-to-airlines-proceeds-despite.html

    this one should never get off the ground either:

    8 Dec: World Bank Urges Carbon Tax On Maritime Transportation

    http://www.leadership.ng/nga/articles/9904/2011/12/08/world_bank_urges_carbon_tax_maritime_transportation.html

  35. Well, I’ve got some bad news. I just got off the phone with China, and they want us (canada) to ship them $10 Trillion in coal and oil. Naturally, I became concerned about securing payment. They offered me California, Nevada, and Guam. I said…but you guys don’t own California, Nevada, and Guam.

    They started laughing. Faxed me copies of the mortgages with Obama’s signature on them.

    I nixed Guam right off the hop because I heard it was tippy. They laughed even harder. Turns out, that’s how you find out how much to mortgage them for, tip them over and look at the back side.

    Anyway, I’m saying no to California as well. I’m OK with Anthony and Willis becoming Canadian citizens, but I’m not keen on Arnie and the rest of his government, I said they had to keep that bunch. That’s when they stopped laughing. I may have screwed up the whole deal.

  36. I am Gloating and I earned it. Proud to be Canadian today.

    To the former activist editor of the Canada’s Leftst paper Ed Greenspon…. I TOLD YOU SO.
    All the ink and BS articles in your trash paper in service to the wealth stealing scheme. I have a printed copy of your mindless personal attack on me….you dolt.

    To the present editor of Canada’s Leftist paper John Stackhouse, There are consequences to elections. This is a big one. I guess you don’t have as much influence you thought you had.

    I call on the Harper government to investigate the billions of dollars farted away by phoney researchers employed at Canadian Universities using federal tax grants.

    Global Warming….by people….. Bull!!

  37. Award yourselves a public holiday, you could call it “No to Kyoto Day”,

    The Russians could call it Nyeto Day.

  38. Fantastic, well done Mr Kent & PM Harper…..maybe in protest Dr Suzuki could ‘Occupy’ the North Pole in the name of climate change……permanently, never to be seen or heard from again…..well, i can dream can’t i?

  39. Great news, but remember one thing, this decision was made BECAUSE, my government will not abide by a deal that is not equittable. What this is hopefully gong to do, is force these other nations to come to their senses and realize, that Kyoto cannot work because it is not just.

    WHEN all nations pledge to reduce their emmisions equittably, so that countries like mine can compete on a level playing feild, then you will see Canada happily join in. This is about economics people, not science. PM Harper is an economist by training, he will not let other countries take advantage by making Canada noncompetitive!

    And yes Minister Kent does believe in CAGW. But why would we crawl into the corner do the right thing, if that right thing had no bearing on the outcome? Insanity. So if the big boys feel that they can get away with dumping all of the CO2 they want into our atmosphere, while trying to shame us into crippling ourselves, well as the old saying goes, “you guys can piss up a rope and suck the wet end!”

  40. Canadian Govt’s & Canadian people as USA Govt’s & Amercans having left
    the real world some moons ago in having & retreated unto their Twilight Zone.

    American govts via the powerful wealthy republican 24/7 brainwashing media
    convinced americans they being the worlds defenders of freedom democracy
    where reality the USA the worlds worst terrorist organization that ever existed.

    The Canadian people by the media even more brainwashed than Americans
    if putting an hundred canadians together // from their combined brain powers
    one could still not put together one working brain cell / even an flickering one.

    Both nations having stuck their heads in the sand // in having no responibility
    to the rest of humanity. A law unto themselves whom intend to do as pleasing
    the intention through military force is take from other nations as they pleasing
    in the process leaving a trail of destruction /a trail of death / a trail of suffering.

  41. william wallace,

    Take an aspirin and lie down, it sounds like you’re about ready to blow a gasket over the rare appearance of sanity in an otherwise lunatic world.

    BTW, it’s the Democrat media, not the Republican media [and IANAR. Just sayin’].

  42. Mr Wallace…it’s clear to me that perhaps you should join Dr Suzuki and also ‘Occupy’ the North Pole in the name of climate change…indefinitely.

  43. A toast to Anthony on this respectable victory in a seemingly endless war. As well for Durban falling short — THANK GOD. In fact, a la Curious George, Crown Royals for the house!

    WUWT has been THE singular dispensary for sane appraisal in the CAGW debate — at cost in myriad ways to Anthony himself, along with to a lesser extent the other stalwarts contributing to the blog.

    Hip hip hooray! …………….HIP HIP HOORAY!!!!!

  44. william wallace: “Both nations having stuck their heads in the sand // in having no responibility
    to the rest of humanity.”

    Yeah, whatever. Why don’t you research a bit about foreign aid over the past 100 years and tell me which countries are high up on the list of giving foreign aid. I can’t speak for Canada, but I know quite a few of my hard-earned dollars have certainly gone toward foreign aid.

    And if Canada’s actions help kill Kyoto, Canada will have done a tremendous service to the rest of humanity.

  45. I’m in the USA but tonight i celebrate my Canadian ancestry!!

    I wish I could have a leader like this in my country:

    “As economic policy, the Kyoto Accord is a disaster. As environmental policy it is a fraud”

    Stephen Harper, Prime Minister of Canada.

  46. william wallace says:
    December 12, 2011 at 6:08 pm
    Both nations having stuck their heads in the sand // in having no responibility
    to the rest of humanity. A law unto themselves whom intend to do as pleasing
    the intention through military force is take from other nations as they pleasing
    in the process leaving a trail of destruction /a trail of death / a trail of suffering.
    ******
    That’s right, and I hope the US remains sovereign forever!

  47. A bit of a prediction. Canada booms economically as industries threatened by Kyoto shift investments into its industry. The worlds green groups attack Canada ferociously but ineffectively. One of these attacks is nuts enough that even the mainstream media in Canada has to distance its-self from the earth-first terrorists. The media leakage over the borders into the northern US states effects Obama’s re-election chances (already horrible). Gore and hocky-team in the USA make the mistake of being chained to the radical loonies. The new media flags that globally. Other countries use the attacks on Canada to declare the hard line greens a threat, not just wrong, and they begin to pull out.

  48. I’ve just been accused by a green zealot of supporting genocide for being happy about Canada’s exodus from Kyoto . Geez

  49. William Wallace,

    I’ve no idea what country you live in, but I’m betting that the free speech you enjoy is due in whole or in part to the countries you denigrate. Your outburst amounts to no more than ad hominem attacks and angry insults. It is devoid of any criticism that is fair, or based in anything resembling factual reality.

    Thankyou. This is how we know we’ve done the right thing.

  50. Now if we can just get Skippy to join Lassie, Flipper, and – what is the Canadian TV hero-animal? All that I could find was something called “The Littlest Hobo.” Well, I suppose Canada has wandered a bit until lately, but still….

  51. p.s. I do know that my USA never ratified the Kyoto b.s. which Algore foolishly signed ….. but far too many US political leaders have pushed cap-n-trade or talk wistfully about joining in on the radicals’ CAGW hysterical bandwagon.

  52. They keep playing the “195 nations” card. Of those 195 nations, how many are payers vs. payees? Thank the Good Lord that my Gov’t seems to be finaly setting the wrongs of the past right!

  53. As one who scrutinizes his Ontario One’s electric bill, I see that I am paying to: 1) decommission the Bruce Nuclear power plant at Point Douglas; and, 2) at the very same time, recommission the Bruce Nuclear power plant at Point Douglas. I spend $15 Canadian Dollars each pay period to both decommission and recommission the same power plant. These are the costs of the Liberal Government’s Green Policies when policies were made devoid of economic and electric power needs realities. I have commented before on the renewable wind energies this summer that I also pay for, $5 Cdn, that stood idle (11 windmills turning out of 500+ Sarnia to Tobermory) during this summer’s heat when the wind didn’t blow. $20 Cdn for failed Government policies. In keeping with the Canadian Social Contract, others, but not me, will temporarily receive a refund for these expenses out of…. the Ontario Government’s tax revenue. The people of Ontario are paying taxes to pay for failed Government policies but because of political blow back, will receive a subsidy they have already payed for. Digging one’s self out of this mess is like extracting one’s self from the Alberta tar sands: a lot of work and money. Maybe worthwhile if the lesson is learned: Don’t trust the Greens under any circumstance.

  54. I hope we (Canada) doesn’t become the “Colorado” of Atalas Shrugged… Wouldn’t supprise me.

  55. Great news and congratulations to Canada. Kyoto is bust and the failure in Durban will no doubt lead to many more rejections of it’s fantasy Kyoto expansion face saving baloney.

  56. Lamenting the American and Canadian people, william wallace at 5:08 PM on 12 December complains:

    The Canadian people by the media even more brainwashed than Americans if putting an hundred canadians together // from their combined brain powers one could still not put together one working brain cell / even an flickering one.

    Both nations having stuck their heads in the sand // in having no responsibility to the rest of humanity.

    The reason why neither Americans nor Canadians neither do nor should trouble themselves “in having no responsibility to the rest of humanity” is because – and this is going to surprise you, Mr. wallace, it sure as hell shouldn’t – is that neither Americans nor Canadians have any AUTHORITY. over the rest of humanity.

    Can’t have “responsibility” for something over which you have no friggin’ authority, which is one of those aspects of factual reality so many “Liberal” idiots can’t get their fumbling hands around.

    The “rest of humanity” has to take responsibility for itself, Mr. wallace.

    Nobody else can.

  57. Canada’ s Prime Minister shows clear leadership and principles.

    I feel so sorry for the rest of the G8, with a bunch bed-wetters for leaders.

    Go Stephen Harper!

  58. misterjohnqpublic says:
    December 12, 2011 at 5:13 pm
    I’ll say it again … Oh, Canada!

    The government is going to take a beating for this, but it is the strongest move I’ve seen come from a government in years. Small population, but huge guts and large brains!
    ###############
    The huge gut is from all the beer. A Kokanee anyone? I got 5 in the fridge!

  59. Then the remaining Kyoto-freaks are:
    EU (UK and Germany only?), Norway, Oz, and NZ. Am I right?

    NZ not so much now. The government is an agriculture-friendly Tory outfit, with no natural Green support. They talk like they mean it, but we all know they don’t.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/93457/green-groups-criticise-nz-role-in-climate-change-talks

    Our Emissions Trading Scheme has yet to have any economic effect, with transitional procedures still underway and our biggest so-call emitter – agriculture – still excluded.

    http://www.climatechange.govt.nz/emissions-trading-scheme/ets-review-2011/review-report.pdf

    Apart from slapping coal, which we barely use, the ETS has had little effect. And is years off having an effect.

    Here’s my prediction. The present NZ government will do nothing for three years. Should they win the next election, they will slowly dismantle the ETS. Unless we can find an overseas market for our carbon sink forests. Yes, we know commercial forestry is not a carbon sink, but we desperately need the foreign currency!

    If the Labour party wins in three years, and are beholden to the Greens, then we might see some bite in the ETS. Maybe.

  60. Now if we can just get our goverment to investigate the massive fraud that got us into this mess in the first place. This is a great first step toward sanity but the eco-nazi types cannot go unpunished, their attack on our country has cost us and still costs us plenty. Environment Canada is full of zealots, read their website; “Environment Canada’s Science” is a key phrase.Incompetence of this magnitude cannot be ingored.

  61. China, the world’s largest source of greenhouse gas emissions, has also refused to take on new targets in the near future, arguing that it wants to see more developed countries act first and honour their commitments.
    The Kyoto Protocol not only set binding targets on its members, but it also established mechanisms for an international market promoting clean energy development and innovation.
    But Kent has criticized it for treating emerging economies such as India, China and Brazil as poorer countries, suggesting that they are unfairly benefiting from targets imposed on countries including Canada.
    http://www.canada.com/business/Canada+formally+withdraw+from+Kyoto+accord+Kent/5848549/story.html#ixzz1gMofGfRS

    Let alone pay to be managed and run by the UN. From Draft decision -/CP.17 Programme budget for the biennium 2012–2013 down in Durban. http://unfccc.int/files/meetings/durban_nov_2011/decisions/application/pdf/cop17_budget.pdf

    Annex
    Indicative scale of contributions from Parties to the Convention for the biennium 2012–-2013
    Party UN scale of assessments for 2012 UNFCCC adjusted scale 2012 UNFCCC adjusted scale 2013

    Canada 3.207 3.127 3.127
    China 3.189 3.109 3.109
    Oh, and
    United States of America 22.000 21.449 21.449

  62. william wallace,

    Your head is already firmly inserted in a warm, cozy place reputed to be a global warming offender.

  63. Wonderful news to this Canadian.Let us hope that this step back from the abyss will be but the first of many.Eliminating all solar/wind subsidies would be a nice second step,followed by a reversal of the light bulb ban.I’d also like a pony and a back rub.

  64. Announcements like this demonstrate that in a world of followers, there are some who will do justice to their position and actually lead. This was ballsy, lets hope this was the tipping point for other ‘leaders’ and they follow Harper’s courageous lead. And no my American friends he’s ours and you cannot have him, FTA or not!

  65. Just so you all know…. I am beside myself giddy about this.

    This is huge news. Here is why. All of the provinces and municipalities have relentlessly invoked the Kyoto accord as an excuse to enact policies at the more local level. The municipality where I live bought hybrid buses, put up windmills to power the water supply out of the water budget….drove up power rates because the socialist provincial government legislated lower CO2 emissions… and on and on….

    This is a sledgehammer to thump the greenies with. Lets begin the thumping.!!!

    This feels sooooo good.

  66. Can someone please tell me what Canadians will pay to get out of Kyoto??

    Kent’s use the term ‘would be’ is ambiguous.

  67. JEM says:

    December 12, 2011 at 4:15 pm

    Now admittedly it’s dangerous to suggest things like this based on the relative health and success of one government, but pretty much since Harper got a majority government I’ve been thinking the right strategy for the US might be an ‘elephant that roared’ – invade Canada, then capitulate.
    Careful JEM the last time the US tried invading Canada it didn’t work out so well, just having fun.

    Now if we can get the Canadian province British Columbia home of Suzuki and Weaver to drop the idiot carbon tax.

  68. Couldn’t Canada set up the first independent climate gate investigation by themselves ?

    Surely, they have the right capacity, skills and background knowledge in their own country.

    This would be a real service to the world.

  69. Yes Indeedy. A proud day for CANADA!!! YAY US!

    Now when will the USA follow and start to ditch this nonsense!

    Next Battle — the European Carbon Tax on Air Travel.

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  71. tokyoboy says:
    December 12, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    “Then the remaining Kyoto-freaks are:
    EU (UK and Germany only?), Norway, Oz, and NZ. Am I right?”

    Plus Switzerland, which is not a EU member. They have even incorporated the AGW doomsday story into their school curriculum to brainwash the kinder. Of course, all those UN offices and hacks there don’t help and, probably more importantly, Geneva is one of two sites (along with Bonn) where the ‘management’ of proposed $100 billion/year Green Slush Fund will be done. Almost right next door to World Bankster Central, which is soooo convenient.

  72. Oh Canada!
    We love you Hosers, Eh?!!! Thanks a Bunch, Canadians! Now, if the US of A can only grow a fiscally conservative President with a spine and a pair… and a Congress with individual IQs somewhat above room temperature!

    MtK

  73. RiHo08 says:
    December 12, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    As one who scrutinizes his Ontario One’s electric bill, I see that I am paying to: 1) decommission the Bruce Nuclear power plant at Point Douglas; and, 2) at the very same time, recommission the Bruce Nuclear power plant at Point Douglas.

    This Ontario One electric bill, is in reference to a left leaning/green wacky Provincial Liberal government. NOT the Federal Conservatives, who are heroes. and the Alberta oil comes from oil sands not the greens favorite term Tar sands
    .
    As you see we still have lots of green watermelons in positions of power in Canada unfortunately, they just don;t know were their bread is buttered!
    And RiHo08 is right: Don’t trust the Greens under any circumstance.
    ___________________________________________________________________
    Don Simpson says:
    December 12, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/inside-politics-blog/2011/12/question-of-the-day-498.html

    Go to this link and vote to say you think this was the right move for Canada, even though it is an AGW outlet at the CBC it never hurts to show your support for the right move.

    Yes Please do and enter the poll it’s as easy as a click, the CBC is full of Eco fanatics and socialist and stone around Canada’s neck spouting the UN IPPC /David Suzuki /AL Bore Line

  74. As much as Harper backstabbed us with regard to the Income Trust issue, he kept his word to pull out of Kyoto. 1-1.
    Of course the Thomson Reuters media voices its displeasure.
    The Globe and Mail has had a clear bias in reporting the issue of Climate Change: only alarmist stories handpicked from AP or Canadian Press, written by known journalist/activists such as Seth Borenstein or Bob Weber have been fed to the readership and all their so called experts writing about it are involved in propagating the IPCC dogmas.

    Political pundits like Jeffrey Simpson, political scientist Thomas Homer-Dixon who explained to us how warm creates cold winters, parroting Overland from NOAA without basic meteorological knowledge, Don Tapscott, the techno-guru or Andrew Weaver, one of Canada’s IPCC representative NDP supporter.

    It took the Globe two weeks to report about “Climategate 1” and 10 days for some opinion piece by Margaret Wente to report about “Climategate 2”. CTV Globemedia belongs to the Thomson Reuters group owned by the Thomson family the richest in Canada. Woodbridge is the $15 billion investment arm, and among the Thomson Reuters Foundation trustees, is Sir Crispin Tickell.

    His biography stipulates that “Sir Crispin’s close relationship with the Climate Institute began in June 1988 when he was the luncheon speaker at a climate change symposium organized by the Climate Institute for UN Missions under auspices of UNEP.”… “With Sir Crispin as Chairman and under auspices of the IPCC and UNEP, the Institute held Presidential and Ministerial briefings on climate change in 22 nations, the first in Mexico at Los Pinos in March 1991.”

    http://www.trust.org/learn-more-about-us/trustees/

    Tickell also helped the chief propagandist journalist from the Guardian, Monbiot obtain Fellowship of Green College in the UK. He knew well the UN since he was former UK ambassador to the United Nations. Thus Tickell was an insider very early on.

    A search showed 14 emails where the name Crispin Tickell is mentioned. “Climategate 2” is offering a glimpse of Sir Crispin’s early activity.

    One can easily imagine that with a Trustee of such green pedigree looking over the Thomsons $15 billion investments, it is unlikely that their principal newspaper, The Globe and Mail or their Television channels CTV, BNN would promote anything but the IPCC line. Jeremy Rifkin’s recent interview on BNN was an example of such open propaganda. So much for objectivity, so much for integrity in revealing what amounts to potential conflicts of interests in a major issue. The Durban coverage was no exception.

  75. RiHo08
    I also pay… $5 Cdn (per month for windmills) that stood idle (11 windmills turning out of 500+ Sarnia to Tobermory) during this summer’s heat when the wind didn’t blow>>>

    You might say that sucks….

  76. I remeber when the liberal government pushed that into law and I was so ticked off….thinking that if Harper could get a majority he would turf it and thankfully both have come to pass….

  77. Dear Wallace,
    Speaking of sand, we have figured out how to make tons of MONEY from oil sands put here in Fort McMurray by NATURE HERSELF. “Mother Earth” so to speak has been very kind to us and we’ll happily mine black gold for 250 years yet to come. Money that the UN and the AGW will NEVER get their grubby paws on thanks to Harper and Minister Kent.

    However, we are also a very kind nation as is the United States of America. No two nations on earth do more FOR humanity that us. Not you leftists, NOT the UN, NOT the EU, NOT the Arabs, NOT the Chinese, NOT the Russians, NOT the third world.

    Canada and the United States DO! And I’m damn tired of people like YOU who don’t have enough common sense to know better.

  78. As a resident of the USA who lives very close to our Canadian friends (I can occasionally see the lights from Cobourg Ontario across our shared Lake Ontario) I say GOOD FOR YOU………….

    I am of course reminded of the sacrifices by our neighbor during WWI, WWII, and Korea, thanks again for your assistance, every bit helped.

    Can anybody find the text of a famous radio broadcast from a Canadian (The Gentleman’s name escapes me at this time) referring to “Who will help the USA after all they gave to help the world”, this radio broadcast (from approximately the mid 1970’s) talked about how nobody would loan us a “worn out caboose”, this was at the time that our once great railroad industry in the Northeastern USA had collapsed (i.e. the Penn Central debacle).

    I would be very GRATEFUL if anybody can produce a link to or text of this broadcast.

    I am ashamed as an American that we let this whole AGW SCAM get this far, I am thankful that our neighbor has come to their senses. Hopefully, the Shining City on the Hill will WAKE UP next.
    An International “Climate Court”, are you @!@#%^ KIDDING ME!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Cheers, Kevin.

  79. Congratulations Canada on showing some sensible independent thinking. What a pity David Cameron did not show the same “Bulldog Spirit” he did in Brussels when he opted out of the Euro Zone Treaty propping up the financial viability of the Euro by doing the same thing in Durban with the IPCC global warming scam.

    Terry McCrann I believe has summed up the Australian position perfectly:

    http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/terry-mccranns-column/the-great-climate-change-gravy-train-rolls-on/story-e6frfig6-1226220297162

    “Combet and Gillard can’t have it both ways. Either we have signed on in Durban to a massive increase in our carbon tax and the virtual and very quick elimination of our cheap coal-fired power stations.

    Or the whole thing is a disgraceful and very expensive charade. There won’t be any real deal in 2015 and we will be left with a useless but punitive tax.”

    I can only hope that the action of Canada will be the first domino to fall in the whole IPCC façade. But I am confident that in 2015 in this country we will not have a punitive tax but a different government like Canada that does not put the cart before the horse and that realises that to take care of the environment and decrease poverty you must first have a viable economy.

  80. JDSmith – Toronto says:
    December 12, 2011 at 7:41 pm
    Can someone please tell me what Canadians will pay to get out of Kyoto??>>>

    Sure. The price is 0.00 to get out.
    The price to stay in is $14,000,000,000.00
    Get it? Get out for nothing or stay in for $14 Billion. Of course, that’s just the price for ONE MORE YEAR. If we extended it like the UN is asking everyone to, that would be $14 Billion/year and CLIMBING.

  81. Hi DavidM,

    Then who is funding IPCC next year… is Canada on the hook in some other category?

    I recall from the IPCC Final Report that there was some ongoing payment so as to get IPCC to 2015 and then to 2020.

  82. Great day here in the Great White North. ☺☺

    PLEASE … all Canucks on board here … PLEASE drop a short note to Mr. Kent and say thank you. Say anything you want…just let him know you are good with the decision. He and Stevie Wonder will be getting some heat from the green weenies. Send a copy to your MP as well.

    Email Minister@ec.gc.ca and kentp@parl.gc.ca
    And PM Stevie Wonder as well. pm@pm.gc.ca

    Send a copy to Elizabeth “The Beaver” May as well. Elizabeth.May@parl.gc.ca.
    “The Beav” is fairly hostile. She’ll be wanting to gnaw on a tree. Poor Beav. ☺☺

    Copy to Bob Rae … bob.rae@parl.gc.ca

    Copy to the “leader” of the NDP as well…okay, so “leader” is a stretch.
    Nycole.Turmel@parl.gc.ca

    Clive

  83. KevinK;

    You’re looking for a piece by Gordon Sinclair called “The Americans”.

    Full text here:

    http://www.broadcasting-history.ca/index3.html?url=http%3A//www.broadcasting-history.ca/news/unique/am_text.html

    Itz from 1973. After 911, his son ran it again, and an amazing number of people thought it had just been written, they didn’t get that it was about 30 years old already. Strangely, just as relevent todayt as then IMHO.

    Wallace, you’d do well to have a read.

  84. Here is the text for “The Americans” by Gordon Sinclair in 1973.
    Wallace, this is for you:

    Topic: “The Americans”

    The United States dollar took another pounding on German, French and British exchanges this morning, hitting the lowest point ever known in West Germany. It has declined there by 41% since 1971 and this Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least-appreciated people in all the world.

    As long as sixty years ago, when I first started to read newspapers, I read of floods on the Yellow River and the Yangtze. Well, Who rushed in with men and money to help? The Americans did, that’s who.

    They have helped control floods on the Nile, the Amazon, the Ganges and the Niger. Today, the rich bottom land of the Mississippi is under water and no foreign land has sent a dollar to help. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy, were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of those countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

    When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. And I was there. I saw that.

    When distant cities are hit by earthquake, it is the United States that hurries into help… Managua Nicaragua is one of the most recent examples. So far this spring, 59 American communities have been flattened by tornadoes. Nobody has helped.

    The Marshall Plan… the Truman Policy… all pumped billions upon billions of dollars into discouraged countries. And now, newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent war-mongering Americans.

    Now, I’d like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplanes.

    Come on… let’s hear it! Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar or the Douglas 10? If so, why don’t they fly them? Why do all international lines except Russia fly American planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or a woman on the moon?

    You talk about Japanese technocracy and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times … and safely home again. You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even the draft dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are right here on our streets in Toronto, most of them… unless they are breaking Canadian laws… are getting American dollars from Ma and Pa at home to spend here.

    When the Americans get out of this bind… as they will… who could blame them if they said ‘the hell with the rest of the world’. Let someone else buy the bonds, let someone else build or repair foreign dams or design foreign buildings that won’t shake apart in earthquakes.

    When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both of them are still broke. I can name to you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble.

    Can you name to me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don’t think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

    Our neighbours have faced it alone and I am one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their noses at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles.

    I hope Canada is not one of these. But there are many smug, self-righteous Canadians. And finally, the American Red Cross was told at its 48th Annual meeting in New Orleans this morning that it was broke.

    This year’s disasters… with the year less than half-over… has taken it all and nobody… but nobody… has helped.

    ORIGINAL SCRIPT AND AUDIO
    COURTESY STANDARD BROADCASTING CORPORATION LTD.

  85. Canadia is racist!!

    This is good news. Our cousin Cindy didn’t land any gold at the last Olympics but at least the canadians didn’t toss away 13 billion in gold on this stunt.

    Does the US have to have Congress pass on this treaty? If we do pass it, we can give them Detroit, the Peoples Republic of Berkeley and Chicago for collateral.

  86. …and for those who read “The Americans” by Gordon Sinclair, 1973, in addition to telling “Wallace” exactly what he needs to hear, I note that there’s a couple of interesting historical climate references in that speech.

    1973.
    Year half over.
    59 communities flattened by tornadoes
    bottom land of the Mississipi under water

    1973 was the beginning of “an ice age is coming” mythology. It was cold, freakin’ cold, I recall those winters and I do NOT want to see them again. When was the last time anyone recalls 59 American communities flattened by tornadoes? Warming = Extreme weather my *ss.

  87. JDSmith – Toronto says:
    December 12, 2011 at 8:13 pm
    Hi DavidM,
    Then who is funding IPCC next year… is Canada on the hook in some other category?
    I recall from the IPCC Final Report that there was some ongoing payment so as to get IPCC to 2015 and then to 2020>>>

    I don’t know the gory details but I suspect you’ve got two different mechanisms over lapped. The UN is funded by the member countries. As a member, Canada has annual dues directly to the UN. The UN in turn funds various committees, one of which is the IPCC.

    So… the $14 Billion would be fines for staying in Kyoto and not cutting emissions as per the agreement.

    I think the “fund” you are talking about is probably the $100 Billion fund that the IPCC wants countries to voluntarily pay into for climate mitigation projects in 3rd world countries. Basically, what Canada (and everyone else) signed in Durban was a document agreeing to think about maybe doing it eventually sometime down the road after we think about it some more…and if we have the cash by that time….and even then, only maybe….

  88. Surely this has to be the first move other leaders have been waiting for.

    Australia was the last (stupid) one to ratify the Kyoto Protocol, although many of the stupid regulations pertaining to it were passed anyway (e.g. locking up farmland).

    A conservative government in Australia could mean dumping of the carbon tax and dumping of Kyoto. Now that would be something worth hoping for. If Canada can… I can only imagine how many mining companies just opened up a ‘where can we invest in Canada’ document.

  89. Ben U. says:
    December 12, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    Now if we can just get Skippy to join Lassie, Flipper, and – what is the Canadian TV hero-animal?

    Many would answer a Beaver… but it is:

    Winnie the Poo – of course! GK

  90. Clive says:
    December 12, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    “Send a copy to Elizabeth “The Beaver” May as well. Elizabeth.May@parl.gc.ca.”

    Clive. While the teeth and fat head are similar, I strongly disagree with your labeling of May as a beaver. Beavers are industrious, intelligent and quite remarkable rodents as well as an admired symbol of Canada.

    May is obviously a woodchuck.

  91. saltspringson says: December 12, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    Canucks are catching on to this game…what are the rest of you waiting for?

    In the case of the US two things: (1) the ouster of the current whitehouse occupant, and (2) a conservative takeover of the senate.

    Go Canada!

  92. JDSmith;
    Check out the thread by Lord Monckton just a few back. The article was written in the midst of the meeting, so much of the draft language changed, but read through the comments, and you’ll get a very good perspective on just how insane it would be to actually do what they are talking about doing. Thank the deity of your choice we got out.

  93. Thanks to all who responded to my question about Mr. Gordon Sinclair, I should have been more attentive and known the answer myself.

    GOOD ON YOU ALL FOR SENDING THE KYOTO PROTOCOL INTO THE CRAPPER WHERE IT RIGHTLY BELONGS…………….

    Cheers, Kevin.

  94. After twenty-five years studying climate science and fighting global warming nonsense, it’s time for a glass of wine.

    Let’s see – a fine Sauvignon Blanc, a Marlborough from New Zealand.

    Cloudy Bay perhaps? No, Kim Crawford !

    Sip. Aah!

    It’s a beauty!

  95. aslbertalad / the cost of getting such oil from sand in the case of canada
    is so expensive / it just ain’t worth the effort. What makes it practical is if
    the oil prices from normal suppliers goes above $300 a barrel / if such to
    happen then it would be practical in terms of cost for canada / they would
    be able compete with present main oil supliers as / Middle East as Russia.

    The only way such prises of oil are going to rise that canada can compete
    is threats of war on the oil producing countries // such as threats on IRAN..
    etc AS ISRAEL bombing IRAN / which they they are crazy enough in doing
    ISRAELI Govt its military /long since left reality living now the Twilight Zone
    having long lost the plot // like americans / canadians / totally brainwashed.

    Aslbertalad / the only people crazy enough to buy canadian oil at its high
    costs being americans // they be the only ones that could afford to buy it…

    You may ask the question how can americans afford to buy it ?????????.

    The reason being the american govt solves its problems of a cash shortage
    by just printing more money. Such the benefits of being an super power one
    just does as they pleasing / above the law / beyond the law /such is the USA.

  96. tokyoboy says:
    December 12, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    Then the remaining Kyoto-freaks are:
    EU (UK and Germany only?), Norway, Oz, and NZ. Am I right?

    No. KP commitments are now only voluntary if a country wishes to continue to adhere to the defunct KP. Japan, Russia, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada do not but the 27-nation European Union, Norway and Switzerland will continue voluntarily (or not)

    The KYOTO PROTOCOL “Party Quantified emission limitation or reduction commitment” table is here:-

    http://unfccc.int/resource/docs/convkp/kpeng.html

    The USA commitment is listed but USA never ratified KP. USA did however make commitments to the Copenhagen Accord as did China and India. The Copenhagen Accord is still operative but is not a legally binding treaty. The ‘Durban Platform’ seeks to implement legally binding emissions reductions from 2020 onwards but nothing will be agreed to until 2015 (if then). It remains to be seen if 2020 commitments (if any) are a new table superseding the Copenhagen Accord.

    Hopefully by then the Monboit Minimum will have kicked in.

  97. Eric Anderson says:
    December 12, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    william wallace: “Both nations having stuck their heads in the sand // in having no responibility
    to the rest of humanity.”

    Yeah, whatever. Why don’t you research a bit about foreign aid over the past 100 years and tell me which countries are high up on the list of giving foreign aid. I can’t speak for Canada, but I know quite a few of my hard-earned dollars have certainly gone toward foreign aid…..
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Actually our tax dollars have gone into the pockets of corrupt bureaucRATS…..

    Congratulations Canada!

  98. At 8:47 PM on 12 December, brc had written:

    Surely this has to be the first move other leaders have been waiting for.

    Australia was the last (stupid) one to ratify the Kyoto Protocol, although many of the stupid regulations pertaining to it were passed anyway (e.g. locking up farmland).

    A conservative government in Australia could mean dumping of the carbon tax and dumping of Kyoto. Now that would be something worth hoping for. If Canada can… I can only imagine how many mining companies just opened up a ‘where can we invest in Canada’ document.

    I could only hope that tallbloke or one of the other Australian bloggers might put in an appearance on this thread; I’d seen him participant in Dr. Curry’s thread discussing Science communication (specifically the convocation of the climate catastrophists’ Sacra Congregatio de Propaganda Fide at the Fall AGU warmista ecumenical council).

    Anybody reading here from Down Under prepared to discuss the precarious status of la Gilliard’s excuse for a government and how close it is at present to coming to bits like the proverbial Pakistani hand grenade?

  99. Tucci78 / I thank you for your words in my answer to a comment
    made by ( davidmhoffer) . The words as the advice having gave
    to (davidmhoffer) also applying to you. Thus PLEASE look up my
    response unto (davidmhoffer). In its reference to meditation as of
    the (words of peace) site on internet. The videos upon meditation.

    MY Very Best WishesTo You / May All Your Problems Being Little.

  100. Al Gored says … “May is obviously a woodchuck.” ☺☺☺

    We started calling the poor thing “The Beav” way back. I have a great TV screen capture of her trying to eat a microphone on CTV after the last election.

    Okay ..we should not make fun of people. Elizabeth May wherever you are, we are sorry.

    Reminds of an old BC cartoon … some other time. ☺

  101. Neill // That one thing about canadians as americans they share
    (a sense of humor) its but good to laugh. The best exercise for a
    heart is that of laughter / apparantly laughter exercises the heart
    muscles more than anything else does / hence after a good laugh
    one feels better fitter hence why comedians are always welcomed.

    PS could you look up a reply I made to ( davidmhoffer) the advice I
    gave in regard to meditation / as the internet site ( words of peace)
    such advice to (davidmhoffer) also applying unto you (best wishes).

  102. Maybe if we had Harper instead of Diefenbaker we would be building the 3 rd generation Avro Aero and a Boeing equivalent would be in Canada. Canadians on this site know what I am talking about.

  103. william wallace;
    My sense is that english is not your first language, so I’m going to let you off the hook. Otherwise you’d be fully exposed by now to my sarcastic wit, and I don’t think the language hanidcap you’re under would make it a fair fight. On the other hand, you’re so divorced from reality, that I’m not certain if your having a strong command of the english language would make a difference.

    You may, if you wish, meditate and recommend it to others. Unfortunately, tyrants aren’t much into meditation, and if they want to slice your head off, it matters little how well you meditate.

    The Nazi machine savaged Europe, and 40 million people died before it was over. What stopped them? Armed men with the will to lay their lives on the line so that people like YOU could live in freedom. What stopped the slaughter in Bosnia Herzogovina? Armed men with the will to lay their lives on the line so that people like YOU could live in freedom. Why did the slaughter in Rwanda come to an end? Armed men with the will to lay their lives on the line so that people like YOU could live in freedom. Why are there no more slaves in the Unites States (and many other countries)? Armed men with the will to lay their lives on the line so that people like YOU could live in freedom. Why does South Korea live in prosperity while North Korea starves to death? Armed men willing to lay down their lives so that people like YOU could live in freedom.

    I could go on for many paragraphs. If you’d like to point out a single example ofg an evil empire intent on the slaughter of innocent people by the thousands and millions that was brough to a halt by meditation, I’d be very interested.

  104. pat says:
    December 12, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    8 Dec: World Bank Urges Carbon Tax On Maritime Transportation

    http://www.leadership.ng/nga/articles/9904/2011/12/08/world_bank_urges_carbon_tax_maritime_transportation.html

    ——-

    In a truly amazing coincidence, UN climate chief Christiana Figueres’s husband works for the World Bank!

    Even more astonishing, before getting that job she was deep in the heart of the carbon trading business.

    (Just start at wiki and go from there.)

  105. In what seems to be a response to my observation that Americans and Canadians cannot (and should not ever be expected to) concede “responsibility to the rest of humanity” because neither Canadians nor Americans have AUTHORITY over the rest of humanity (and responsibility can only work when it’s commensurate with controlling authority), at 9:25 PM on 12 December we’ve got the spectacular william wallace babbling to me:

    I thank you for your words in my answer to a comment
    made by ( davidmhoffer) .

    davidmhoffer’s post at 5:38 PM on 12 December, perhaps? This wallace whackjob never specified in his post of 6:08 PM just what the hell comments he was addressing, if he was actually addressing anything at all. Ah, but let’s permit Mr. wallace to burble on:

    The words as the advice having gave to (davidmhoffer) also applying to you. Thus PLEASE look up my response unto (davidmhoffer). In its reference to meditation as of the (words of peace) site on internet. The videos upon meditation.

    Ah. Hm. Hoo, boy. Shake that bagful of granola enough and all the nuts do seem to settle on the bottom, don’t they?

    Skipping merrily over the value of discussing “meditation” on a Web log in which the readers and disputants are for the greatest part individuals educated in the sciences and making conscious and particular use of reasoned argument and not appeals to the thalamus and/or the ineffable (with or without the consumption of hallucinogenic substances), has Mr. wallace anything remotely resembling lucid thought on the subject of “responsibility to the rest of humanity” which can be translated into terms by which some apprehensible abstract conceptualization of purposeful human action of some nature might be entertained?

    Or (to quote the Reverend Johnson in the wonderful film Blazing Saddles [1974]) “are we just jerking off?”

  106. At 9:49 PM on 12 December, davidmhoffer addresses the estimable william wallace to observe:

    My sense is that english is not your first language….

    Jeez, ya think? How about “sanity ain’t his default mental status” while we’re at it?

  107. Tucci78 / Please read my comment to (Neill) which was in regard to american
    as canadian / sense of humour. Your having a good sense of humour which is
    a tonic of good health. Seeing a humoures side of a dire situation /one’s gifted

  108. william wallace says:
    December 12, 2011 at 9:25 pm
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Looks like bot speak, To be ignored.

  109. Well Mexico, South and Central America never gave a rat’s ass any way. To say the American Senate was luke-warm ;) would be akin to AGW.An exaggeration. I say the whole Western Hemisphere announce the game is over and leave this crap to the other side. .

  110. Clive said
    “Okay ..we should not make fun of people. Elizabeth May wherever you are, we are sorry. ”
    Al Gored said
    “I’m not sorry. I’ve met her.”

    * * *

    Considering she was quoted as being ” in tears tonight” ( crocodiles tears, maybe) over Canada’s unwillingness to hand over our hard-earned cash like we are on some Great Train Robbery, I’d say the jab still stands.
    She also has a brother who makes a nasty habit of trolling message boards and calling everyone the D word, as well as every other word thats not fit to print.
    Two peas in a pod.

  111. Next step: pull the “charitable’ status of Tides Canada, Suzuki and all the rest of the BS money launderers trying to screw up our economy and independence. Good on ya, Harper!

  112. WW:
    the american govt solves its problems of a cash shortage
    by just printing more money. Such the benefits of being an super power one
    just does as they pleasing / above the law / beyond the law /such is the USA.

    And the EU, and UK, and Japan, and Switzerland, etc. They’re all “monetizing,” “easing,” etc. It’s a race to the bottom.

  113. WW:
    the USA the worlds worst terrorist organization that ever existed…. A law unto themselves whom intend to do as pleasing the intention through military force is take from other nations as they pleasing in the process leaving a trail of destruction /a trail of death / a trail of suffering.

    Unlike Kadaffi, Pol Pot, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, Castro, Saddam, etc.? (Your heros?)

  114. davidmhoffer / The germans offered a surrender / in a USA deciding
    to enter the war /knowing they could not stand against the americans
    with its manpower as resources / to continue the war but an futile act.

    The USA would not accept GERMANY’S surrender as the WAR t’was
    bringing employment / as lifting the USA out of a deep depression a
    period that having been time of great poverty for the USA it’s people.

    The other reason not stopping the war / an world war was was giving
    a USA a military footing on the world stage // an reason in expanding
    its military forces / not to defend democracy / freedom but in using its
    military might to do as pleased to other nations with threats of violence.

    The war could have ended two years earlier / in saving millions of lives
    yet the USA refused such / as it t’was not to their pleasing their benefit.

    May I add the war was used as cover where people distracted to flood
    both BRITAIN as USA with TOBACCO building a massive advertizing of
    tobacco ( movies were not bt long adverts for tobacco) it made to look
    a wise thing to do / the dying soldier had a cigarettte stuck in his mouth
    such was shwn as a act of kindness / by the wars end be it the USA / as
    Britain / millions almost half the adult populations addicted unto tobacco..
    in time they started dying from tobacco /related illnesses in thousands…
    then in millions .. tobacco killing far more than any german bullet bomb.

    The tobacco companies continued killing millions and get away with it
    as the yearly profits in making were $billions / with such profits they…
    then funded political parties // in turn political parties for decades but
    turning a blind eye to deaths in hundreds of thousands / the suffering
    of their own. Britain / only in the last decade was smoking BANNED in
    public places / or the work place / for many british as american people.
    In getting just that done being an great struggle // where the politicians
    did not support the people / they but supported the tobacco companies.

    davidmhoffer / Youv’e been raised where brainwashing started at a early
    age / thus the picture painted is not that of reality it but that which youv’e
    been brainwashed unto believing / the reality is but far from that believing.

  115. ROGER KNIGHTS / Two wrongs don’t make a right. To slaughter people in the name of democracy freedom / is the cruelest of acts. Abandoning international law an great wrong.

  116. Tucci78 says:
    December 12, 2011 at 9:21 pm

    Anybody reading here from Down Under prepared to discuss the precarious status of la Gilliard’s excuse for a government and how close it is at present to coming to bits like the proverbial Pakistani hand grenade?

    I am sure that Tallbloke can give you a much better picture Tucci78 but for the current Australian political status I would recommend Antony Green’s fine Election Blog (Unlike the rest of the ABC he is extremely impartial):

    http://blogs.abc.net.au/antonygreen/2011/11/future-election-dates.html#more

    You will see that the earliest a Federal Election can be held is August 2013 with October 2013 as the most probable.

    The added problem for the Coalition is that the Senate which is required to pass all bills does not necessarily match the House of Representatives elections because it is split into 2 blocks. The Senate currently holds a comfortable majority of Labor and Greens for any Gillard reforms such as the carbon tax. It could also block any rescinding of a carbon tax when and if the Coalition oust Gillard from government although if there is landslide against Gillard especially if carbon tax is a major issue this would be unlikely in my opinion.

    Even though Gillard runs a minority government in the House of Reps it is likely now that she will run full term as the Independents are now all Labor love-ins and she has just shored up her one seat majority by recruiting an Abbott turncoat as speaker of the House who was going to be sacked by Abbott for a variety of “offences” before the next election.

    There is one Labor seat in jeopardy with a member under police investigation for possible fraud and as they say a week is a long time in politics and anything can happen but my bet is that October 2013 will be the day that the baseball bats will come out.

    Long time to keep them shiny Huh? But present polling on a two party preferred basis is:

    Abbott’s Coalition – 57%
    Gillard’s Labor/Green Alliance – 43%.

    About 60% of pollsters oppose the carbon tax by about a majority of 2 to 1 so Gillard has a hard task ahead to turn things around especially when she promised just before the election that there would not be one.

    SO, the next 18 months will be critical for Gillard. Durban did not help although she is spinning like mad telling the faithful that it was a “landmark” decision and her carbon tax is justified.

    If nothing changes much in the world as far as carbon trading is concerned and there are no major heat waves or other extreme events that she can pin on CO2, her government looks doomed and should go down faster than the Titanic. And may not resurface again for a long, long time. All Tony Abbott need do is make sure he doesn’t fall off his bike.

  117. It just goes to show not all politicians are unscrupulous and/or taken in by junk science.

    Unfortunately, the UK’s Chris Huhne is not one of these. As for the EU, an organisation run by career bureaucrats and politicians, who have had little exposure to the real world, it is not surprising they are a hopeless cause, spewing out a never ending list of industry destroying directives, especially on ‘climate change’.

    Canada is an island of sanity in a sea of stupidity and self-interest and is to be congratulated.

  118. “That’s $1,600 from every Canadian family!!!!

    What? Think yourselves very lucky. In Scotland they are planning to spend £2000 ($3000) not per family, but per person.

  119. G. Karst says: December 12, 2011 at 8:52 pm

    Ben U. says:
    December 12, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    [… ] what is the Canadian TV hero-animal?

    Many would answer a Beaver… but it is:

    Winnie the Poo – of course! GK

    Of course! And speaking of Manitoba’s most famous bear … today in Vancouver, one of Winnie’s distantly descendant cousins had (evidently inadvertently) hitched a ride in a waste removal truck from somewhere on the North Shore to the heart of downtown:

    Bear captured in downtown Vancouver

    This story does have a happy ending; but I rather suspect that any day now Suzuki (or WWF, or CBC’s Bob McDonald) will be announcing that the bear’s coat would have been a lot lighter if it weren’t for all our dreaded CO2 emissions ;-)

    But it has been a grand day to be a Canadian, eh?!

  120. Aussie Luke Warm says:
    December 12, 2011 at 6:22 pm
    we’re soooooooooo jealous of you Canada. Can we borrow your government for awhile?
    =======================================================================
    … and we’re (NZ) in line to borrow it next!

    The cracks are starting to appear … how long before the wall falls completely?

  121. Meditate on Patchy cho cho waking up to his next life as a neutered steer, in a feed lot In Amarillo Texas surrounded by hundreds of wind generators, Karma can be a bitch.

  122. “That’s $1,600 from every Canadian family — that’s the Kyoto cost to Canadians, that was the legacy of an incompetent liberal government”
    Here in Australia we are wearing this as the legacy of an incompetent Labor government.

  123. It has just been announced that the last UK aluminium smelter is to close because of unstainable energy cost increases. These include costs arising from the UK Climate Change Act (the most expensive piece of UK legislation ever passed), subsidies to renewable energy producers and EU and UK carbon taxes.
    Net results – loss of jobs, increase in trade imbalance as all aluminium will now be imported, loss of tax receipts. Although the UK carbon footprint will be reduced, the carbon dioxide will simply be produced elsewhere..
    Well done Canada for avoiding this economic madness.
    PS Can you give the UK a special deal on aluminium.

  124. Good on you Canada…..and a massive stick that up your jumper to the imbeciles running Australia into the ground.

  125. Another Gareth asks who had the authority to fine a sovereign nation? Well the UN is hoping that eventually they will be able to. But now we can tell them to go hang.

  126. JimOfCP / From what you said shows a unique brand of humour.

    I can only presume your mother american your father canadian
    in terms of genetic pooling your having the best of both nation’s.

  127. Dear Canadians,

    I am happy that at last you have seen sense and your Conservative government has abandoned the Kyoto Protocol. Meanwhile, back here in the old country, we also have a supposedly Conservative government, but there is little chance of any similar action for us (and considering how the economy is going, we are more in need than you!). Would you mind sending back some of those Conservative voters we have been sending West over the centuries so we can elect a PM with some “balls” again? We only need to borrow them for 5 years really… Pleaaase.

    Yours affectionate,

    FD

  128. Ben U 6:44 and G. Karst 8:52
    Winnie the Pooh (with an ‘h’), despite being named after Winnipeg, is British, not Canadian. The Littlest Hobo was absolutely brilliant – my kids were small at the time and they loved it. Yes, the Littlest Hobo is a worthy emblem of the great Canadian nation. And thanks, Canada, for taking the lead in the direction of common sense. There are some slight signs that our leaders in Britain are beginning to wake up, but it’s very early days.

  129. Congratulations Canada! As a hapless Ozzie I can only wish I too had a government that put its people before posturing on the world stage.
    Election not for two more years – I hope there is something left of the economy before we boot these morons out.

  130. Barry Brill says:
    December 12, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    Minister Combet has declared that Australia will not be entering into any commitments for the second Kyoto period.
    ==============
    the BIG test is for them to GIVE BACK the rights to farm the land the idiots now in power STOLE from the owners ie Peter Spencer and many others.
    the way Aus is going Canadas looking very attractive.
    hmm?
    I expected to hear howls from Suzuki and his ilk…whats up? they got caught in a snowdrift maybe:-)

  131. Richard Holle says:
    December 13, 2011 at 1:17 am

    Meditate on Patchy cho cho waking up to his next life as a neutered steer, in a feed lot In Amarillo Texas surrounded by hundreds of wind generators, Karma can be a bitch.
    ===========
    Richard youve quite cheered me up:-) nice thought indeed.

  132. This signals Canada is ready to do business. Should we prosper form this, I would hope that we could further lead by investing in pure scientific research and increasing foreign aid.

  133. Do I sense a politician actually delivering on his pre-election promises?

    Isn’t that approach awfully obsolete in all civilized countries by now?

  134. Wow, Canada’s popular :-) May I remind you that it’s VERY COLD in Canada so think twice about flooding us in unseaworthy boats ;-)

    One thing that really stuck out for me in the whole Durban Festa was some girl standing up and claiming to be talking on behalf of half the world’s population.

  135. pl says:
    December 12, 2011 at 7:33 pm
    Wonderful news to this Canadian.Let us hope that this step back from the abyss will be but the first of many.Eliminating all solar/wind subsidies would be a nice second step,followed by a reversal of the light bulb ban.I’d also like a pony and a back rub.
    ———-
    Throw in a pedicure and a cold beer ……………….. I’m with you.

  136. Friends:

    I write to congratulate Canadians on their being the first to openly admit the obvious; i.e. the AGW-scare is in its death throes.

    Before the Copenhagen COP I predicted (on WUWT and in several other places) that it would be the ‘beginning of the end’ for the AGW-scare. The scaremongers knew it too, and they were then making laughably desperate proclamations such as, “We have ten days left to save the world”. But their desperation was to no avail: the Copenhagen COP failed to reach an agreement.

    At that point the negotiators could see the writing on the wall; “mene mene tekel u-Pharsin”.

    Those with any sense started to back away from the AGW-scare. The Cancun COP was a farce and no senior politician from any country attended. The recent Durban COP collapsed the issue to complete farce by debating insane proposals that could never be adopted because they would be political suicide for any politicians who signed-up to them.

    But politicians who have been supporting the scare cannot admit they were wrong so they allow bureaucrats to continue actions for COPs while knowing they are allowing the AGW-scare to slowly fade away into distant memory.

    Canada has obtained a new generation of politicians who are not tied to past adherence to the AGW-scare. Thus, Canada has managed to openly admit the obvious.

    I congratulate Canadians on being the first to break the political log-jam of the AGW-scare. And I remind them that AGW is merely the latest in a series of such false scares so they need to beware whatever will be the next one.

    Richard

  137. william wallace [December 12, 2011 at 6:08 pm] says:

    “Canadian Govt’s & Canadian people as USA Govt’s & Amercans … do as pleasing the intention through military force is take from other nations as they pleasing”

    Examples please.

  138. BLADE / There no end to the nations plundered as bombed by the USA ..where Canada has supported in word as military / in appalling acts of mass murder as theft of nations resources.

    BAHRAIN SYRIA IRAN RUSSIA CHINA IRAN VIETNAM ALL AFRICAN AS ASIAN NATIONS
    JAPAN / SOUTH AMERICAN NATIONS A LIST OF EURO NATIONS ETC SUCH A LIST BUT
    GOES ON AND ON AND ON // (PALESTINE) // THE PLIGHT OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE.

  139. Sincere congratulations to Canada a breath of fresh air and good common sense, Thankyou.
    Can anyone please tell me what is the purpose of the U.N. other than spending copious sums
    of other peoples money?

  140. william wallace says:
    December 12, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    aslbertalad / the cost of getting such oil from sand in the case of canada
    is so expensive / it just ain’t worth the effort. What makes it practical is if
    the oil prices from normal suppliers goes above $300 a barrel / if such to
    happen then it would be practical in terms of cost for canada / they would
    be able compete with present main oil supliers as / Middle East as Russia.

    Nonsense. The cost of extracting oil from Canada’s sands is quite profitable at current world prices and has been for some time. Current costs of recovery are under $75/barrel which to my understanding is at the high end of the project specific break even point. New extraction technologies have much lower break even points.

    You can’t seriously believe that $300/barrel is the price of crude necessary to sustain practical oil sands development. If that were the case, there would be no oil sands industry of any kind operating in the Province of Alberta, or anywhere else for that matter.

    I know that Canadians and Americans are great friends, but I don’t think Americans like Canadians well enough to pay nearly triple the price for a barrel of crude.

    http://www.neb.gc.ca/clf-nsi/rnrgynfmtn/nrgyrprt/lsnd/pprtntsndchllngs20152006/qapprtntsndchllngs20152006-eng.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athabasca_oil_sands

  141. I’m having computer problems and see that I am behind more than 200 earlier posters…..

    As a Canadian I am glad that our country has dropped out of the Kyoto Accord. But…..it concerns me that Peter Kent still talks about the need to cut emissions, “greenhouse gases”, etc. It seems to me that he still accepts the hypothesis that adding more CO2 to our air will inevitably raise the temperature. We should always, always, always, keep in mind that there is no scientifically valid proof that adding CO2 raises temperature. Everything else is merely constructing an ever-larger edifice on a foundation of quicksand. The MSM have obviously accepted the CO2-temperature connection and proceeded from there,

    IanM

  142. AND _IN_ALBERTA / Your few words say a lot / in main your the
    typical canadian american // betwix your ears but a vacuum where
    there should be a brain /it’s the result of centuries of brainwashing.

    It not your fault your being but the victim of religious political fraud.

  143. @william wallace

    This is a science oriented blog, not a political blog, so kindly stop with your insane far left babble about World War II and the USA. You have proved you know NOTHING about the circumstances and judgments that led the USA into WWII or to share in the judgment of ALL of the allies (also the UK and USSR) that only an “unconditional surrender” by the Axis Powers could have a hope of producing a world which did not lapse back into German and Japanese aggressive militarism which had dominated the 1930s. You understanding exactly NOTHING (less than nothing) about the information and decisions available to Allied leaders in 1943-45.

    But this is not a topic for this blog and you are not knowledgeable enough to have an intelligent discussion about the USA or WWII or indeed any international relations topic.

  144. william wallace says:
    December 12, 2011 at 9:01 pm


    You may ask the question how can americans afford to buy it ?????????.

    The reason being the american govt solves its problems of a cash shortage
    by just printing more money. Such the benefits of being an super power one
    just does as they pleasing / above the law / beyond the law /such is the USA.

    You’re clueless, w. Every time the US government prints more money, it dilutes the value of all the rest that’s out there–hence, everybody holding US money is robbed by their own government.

    But I see you’ve now resorted to ALL CAPS, which is a strong indication you’ve lost the debate on this thread (not that you had much of a position except deceptive prose and delusion like you’re living in some parallel universe or something).

    People here want to see facts and logic; if you’re devoid of both, I suggest quit making a fool of yourself (although delving into your delusional mind is enlightening–I believe winning a confrontation with clueless people like you would be easy and it is–you’ve already demonstrated it).

    And your mention of the “Palestinian People” in your last post is the clincher–utter and abject tool, sir.

    PS> I worked with a Palestinian here in the US for a year, and even though he was an engineer by training, he was the most self-righteous, bigoted, racist human being I’ve ever known. His hatred of Israel was something to behold, and I was glad to leave that association–it completely poisoned his logic and reasoning. Maybe that’s your problem?

  145. JAN / I presume your accounting comes from the canadian govt
    the calculations findings enforced / supported by the USA Govt.

  146. (NOTE: sorry for continuing to feed this threadjacking dingleberry)

    william wallace [December 12, 2011 at 6:08 pm] says:

    “Canadian Govt’s & Canadian people as USA Govt’s & Amercans … do as pleasing the intention through military force is take from other nations as they pleasing”

    Examples please.

    william wallace [December 13, 2011 at 5:54 am] says:

    “BLADE / There no end to the nations plundered as bombed by the USA ..where Canada has supported in word as military / in appalling acts of mass murder as theft of nations resources.

    BAHRAIN SYRIA IRAN RUSSIA CHINA IRAN VIETNAM ALL AFRICAN AS ASIAN NATIONS JAPAN / SOUTH AMERICAN NATIONS A LIST OF EURO NATIONS ETC SUCH A LIST BUT GOES ON AND ON AND ON // (PALESTINE) // THE PLIGHT OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE.”

    Ummm, still waiting. See the bold part again: “through military force is take from other nations as they pleasing”. Don’t weasel out now boy. What did the USA and/or Canada take through military force, and from whom?

  147. @william wallace
    You seem to have warped ‘psychological’ and ‘ideological’ motivations to believe nonsense. For instance, your world would be too shaken by successful production from “oil sands” (which is already happening on a large scale), so you make up ludicrous alleged facts such as the supposed $300/barrel production cost. Oil sand production is proving economically successful at well under $100/bbl and current estimates for costs going forward are in the range of $30-70/bbl (depending upon source) but nowhere near your $300/bbl.

    You need to stop, learn to read carefully, learn to sift serious information and avoid reckless ideological sources, etc.

  148. G Karst and Don Simpso
    Thanks for the heads up on the CBC polls. Ii have cast my vote in both. The NOs are still leading the “have we done enough”, but a slightly smaller margin; however, the Yes are leading the “were we right to dump Kyoto” poll by a several points. Go figure – and if ;you haven t voted, please do!

  149. Friends:

    Please stop feeding the William Wallace (ww) troll. This thread is not about any of the things ww drivels on about but he/she/they/it seems near to subverting the thread onto the drivel,

    The post from Skiphil at December 13, 2011 at 6:36 am said all that was needed in response to ww’s drivel.

    Richard

  150. Ian L. McQueen:

    At December 13, 2011 at 6:31 am you say;

    “As a Canadian I am glad that our country has dropped out of the Kyoto Accord. But…..it concerns me that Peter Kent still talks about the need to cut emissions, “greenhouse gases”, etc. It seems to me that he still accepts the hypothesis that adding more CO2 to our air will inevitably raise the temperature.”
    etc.

    Actions speak louder than words, especially those from politicians.

    Every politician (including Peter Kent) needs to make the right noises to satisfy (ar appease) all parts of his/her electorate. Keep watching Kent’s actions and indications of actions because in the end only the actions matter.

    All the best

    Richard

  151. Canada, a country rich with energy resources, coal, oil, gas, shale gas, tar sands, wood that seems to have had a moment of reality over Kyoto. So why is it still trying to litter it’s beautiful countryside with noisy, sleep destroying, wildlife murdering useless wind turbines? Another moment of sanity is clearly needed

  152. to: kentp@parl.gc.ca (minister)
    cc: pm@pm.gc.ca (prime minister)

    I applaud the government’s decision to withdraw from Kyoto. Canada’s continued participation provided ill-advised political support for a failed approach.

    The treaty has proven ineffective at reducing total CO2 production. It simply moved CO2 production from “rich” nations to “poor”, and in the process contributed to the current financial crisis.

    On the larger question – the role of CO2 in climate – and whether the net effect will be positive or negative for Canada. The future of Canada, given our extreme northern climate is in energy production to support our economy.

    The Argo ocean buoy system shows that ocean temperatures are not changing. This argues strongly that land temperatures are changing as a result of land use changes due to population increases, urbanization and industrialized farming.

    The Climategate emails argue strongly that the IPCC is a largely political process, driven largely by pollution fears and economic interests, that “cherry picks” science to support its agenda. This process has politicized Climate Science, leading to a corruption of the Scientific Method.

    I urge the government of Canada to withdraw from the IPCC and apply the Scientific Method to Climate Science. Under the Scientific Method, science that cannot accurately predict is failed science. It is not a sound basis for government planning.

    I have a stopped watch that accurately tells the time 700 times a year. That is what the IPCC does – measures how many times my stopped watch is correct, as justification for saying my watch is accurate.

    The Scientific Method does not work this way. The measure of any scientific theory is how many times it is wrong. The Scientific Method says that like a stopped watch, if a theory can be shown to be wrong just one time, then the theory is likely wrong, no matter how many times it is shown to be right.

    Thank you

  153. I agree with Richard. William Wallace seems to be spoofing a 17th century personality of the same name.

    And I will take this oportunity to add my voice (that the left wants to take away from me) and say congratulations Stephen Harper on leading the world.

  154. Proud to be a Canadian today. I have cheerfully sent a letter to PM Harper and Minister Kent supporting their decision to withdraw from Kyoto.

  155. BLADE // To start the list the lands that canadians as americans
    now live gained through theft appalling actions of injustice torture
    the mass slaughter of man as woman & child. None Shown Mercy.

  156. At7:16 AM on 13 December, Richard S Courtney had appealed:

    Please stop feeding the william wallace (ww) troll. This thread is not about any of the things ww drivels on about but he/she/they/it seems near to subverting the thread onto the drivel….

    I’ve been dealing with whatever in hell this william wallace whackjob might be by way of ridicule and scorn. I mean, he’s gotta be a joker or a ‘bot, right? Well, maybe not.

    I’d very much like to learn what other readers here conceive this doofus to be trying to say. It seems to be nothing but the sort of “word salad” I’ve encountered in cases of major thought disorder and dementia, but doesn’t quite fit the pattern I’d expect to see were such gibbering to be uttered in a clinical setting.

    To the extent that this critter can be said to have a point to make, just what the hell might it be?

  157. [snip]

    REPLY: Source of this? or is this your comment masquerading as a statement? If the latter it stays snipped. – Anthony

  158. DaveF says:
    December 13, 2011 at 3:28 am

    Ben U 6:44 and G. Karst 8:52
    Winnie the Pooh (with an ‘h’), despite being named after Winnipeg, is British, not Canadian.

    Sacrilege!

    From Wiki:

    Christopher Milne had named his toy bear after Winnie, a Canadian black bear which he often saw at London Zoo, and “Pooh”, a swan they had met while on holiday. The bear cub was purchased from a hunter for $20 by Canadian Lieutenant Harry Colebourn in White River, Ontario, Canada, while en route to England during the First World War.

    The Pooh bear was all Canuck. :) GK

  159. Al Gored says:
    December 12, 2011 at 8:56 pm
    Clive says:
    December 12, 2011 at 8:15 pm
    “Send a copy to Elizabeth “The Beaver” May as well. Elizabeth.May@parl.gc.ca.”
    Clive. While the teeth and fat head are similar, I strongly disagree with your labeling of May as a beaver. Beavers are industrious, intelligent and quite remarkable rodents as well as an admired symbol of Canada.
    May is obviously a woodchuck.

    In Defense of Clive,
    Every time I see here nagging, whining face with protruding teeth I always think she looks like a beaver (She finally broke down and got her splayed teeth straightened once she was on the taxpayer government dental plan ). But I’ll try real hard to think of a woodchuck from now on. Could a woodchuck do a Beaver? May that’s where Elizabeth.May got here green roots from, just thinkin!

    http://www.fcps.edu/islandcreekes/ecology/woodchuck.htm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaver

  160. Spen says:
    December 13, 2011 at 1:26 am
    It has just been announced that the last UK aluminium smelter is to close because of unstainable energy cost increases. These include costs arising from the UK Climate Change Act (the most expensive piece of UK legislation ever passed), subsidies to renewable energy producers and EU and UK carbon taxes.
    Net results – loss of jobs, increase in trade imbalance as all aluminium will now be imported, loss of tax receipts. Although the UK carbon footprint will be reduced, the carbon dioxide will simply be produced elsewhere..
    Well done Canada for avoiding this economic madness.
    PS Can you give the UK a special deal on aluminium.
    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Probably. The expansion/modernization of Rio Tinto – Alcan’s plant in Kitimat is a 2.5 billion dollar project: http://www.kitimatworksmodernization.com/

  161. Four years old, nevertheless a timeless window into the blustery defensiveness of the CAGW lobby in Canada. Talk over and talk louder, pull out ad homs, heap scorn, repeat fallacies – essentially try to bully your way through.

  162. At 4:16 AM on 14 December, Ron had posted access to a radio interview conducted of David Suzuki, saying:

    Four years old, nevertheless a timeless window into the blustery defensiveness of the CAGW lobby in Canada. Talk over and talk louder, pull out ad homs, heap scorn, repeat fallacies – essentially try to bully your way through.

    Damn. A little Wayback Machine insight into the unarguable arrogant bastardliness of los warmistas prior to the Climategate pantsing.

    I confess to never having paid much attention to this overstuffed codpiece of a Suzuki, but I can see why Canadians look upon him with so much contempt, and how well justified is that scorn.

  163. Well done, Canada! I hope you see this through but I have serious doubts.

    To appreciate the background to the green (watermelon) movement and the sinister portents read this:- http://www.amazon.co.uk/Watermelons-Green-Movements-Colors-ebook/dp/B005BE0S02/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1323962170&sr=1-1 . Kindle only at the moment, I think, though there’s book due in Feb 2012 which may be the same thing.

    Another tome I have just read is about the cost of the UK’s membership of the EU. All data is taken from UK gov info. Two standout points (1) it costs £11 to gain £10 profit on exports to the EU and (2) the cost of green/CO2 projects (funded by taxation) is = the current eurozone deficit thus it might easily be argued that green “economics” caused the euro crisis.

    Usually hopelessly optimistic, on our fight against AGW alarmism I am totally pessimistic: we aren’t within a light year of making real change and the greens/lefties etc are winning all the way. It’s very depressing.

  164. WW on December 12, 2011 at 11:26 pm

    “The germans offered a surrender”

    “The USA would not accept GERMANY’S surrender as the WAR t’was
    bringing employment / as lifting the USA out of a deep depression a
    period that having been time of great poverty for the USA it’s people.”

    “The war could have ended two years earlier / in saving millions of lives
    yet the USA refused such / as it t’was not to their pleasing their benefit.”

    Oh dear! If these lies are the sum total of WW’s “knowledge” then we are all wasting our time in responding to him.

  165. Tucci78 & Mardler / May I remind you the tobacco companies having
    killed far more americans than wars. With their $billions of profits they
    fund the political parties thus political parties but turning an blind eye
    to a ongoing horror. The ongoing suffering /the tears / the heartache
    knows no bounds. Tobacco its added addictive chemicals /in realty be
    the real weapons of mass destruction // not fantasy illusion / but reality.

    ps / in regard to USA news channels / but republican brainwashing it’s
    a very powerful wealthy 24 / 7 (ongoing) brainwashing propaganda spin.

  166. william wallace,

    This is not about tobacco companies like Al Gore’s family owns. This is about Canada’s excellent repudiation of Kyoto 2.0. And people make their own decisions to start smoking. The warnings are on every pack of cigarettes. If they deliberately choose to ignore the warnings it is not anyone else’s fault. Understand? …Probably not.

    And if you’re such a lunatic that you believe republicans run the mainstream media, then it is you who are brainwashed. The mainstream U.S. media ranges from center/Left to communist. The only exception is a.m. radio.

  167. SMOKEY / To just dismiss a gret injustice is to live up to your name
    Smoke Gets In Your Eyes) Children smoke because they see adults
    smoking. Adults smoke because they are addicted unto tobaccos…
    highly addictive added chemicals // thus making it difficult break the
    addiction / its not uncommon adults smoke in the company of children
    even that of a newborn baby a act which lethal for child / where such
    chemicals be overpowering causing breathing problems in cases death.

  168. I hav’nt a clue what troll means.

    At a guess I would say it be an
    person whom sticks their head
    in the sand /never facing reality.

    However such is not my nature
    my life’s been in helping others
    dispite ( for a good deed one’s
    often punished).There a saying
    no good deed goes unpunished.

Comments are closed.