CARB delays proposed “false statements” discussion

Readers may recall this story on WUWT:
Surreality: CARB contemplating a “skeptical science” regulation with penalties

I wrote that:

Of course, it’s OK if CARB makes a 340% error of their own while using false data to impose their will on the people of California. And of course it’s OK to publicly flaunt the ugly hubris of the CARB boss Mary Nichols rubbing her glee in the face of the citizens of California that voted for Prop 23. And of course it’s OK to simply demote a CARB “scientist” who lied about his PhD degree obtained from a UPS store rather than fire his fraudulent bureaucratic butt and then stage a cover up about it. But, when a citizen submits some data or opinion to CARB that they may later find questionable? Well, that’s a whole different matter.

It seems sunlight may have helped:

Their listserver message was a bit more descriptive:

From: owner-arbcombo@listserv.arb.ca.gov on behalf of wfell@arb.ca.gov
Sent: Fri 11/26/2010 1:00 PM
To: post-arbcombo@listserv.arb.ca.gov
Subject: arbcombo — POSTPONEMENT of Dec. 1 workshop to discuss possible false statement regulation

“The workshop scheduled for December 1st to discuss approaches to prohibit dishonest statements or submittals offered to the Board or its staff has been postponed to accommodate numerous requests for more background information about the purpose of the draft proposed rule. The workshop will be rescheduled after the New Year.

For more information, contact Will Brieger at:
wbrieger@arb.ca.gov

With no determined future date, is it possible this proposed rule may go the way of the dodo? Nah, this is CARB, they are determined to have this rule, public input or not. They just need to schedule a bigger room.

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40 Responses to CARB delays proposed “false statements” discussion

  1. Doctor Gee says:

    A low CARB diet would certainly be my preference.

  2. tarpon says:

    CARB put up a paper a while back that showed ethanol cost twice the CO2 as straight oil, then Schwarzenegger made them take it down.

    It’s safe to say that everything you read about CO2 and climate change is just lies.

    What we have is a shortage of truth.

  3. Christoph Dollis says:

    What fascists.

  4. Grumpy old Man says:

    “Nah, this is CARB, they are determined to have this rule, public input or not. They just need to schedule a bigger room. ” Or a smaller room, in a more remote part of Ca., with less publicity? I suggest that CARB is the sort of politicised body that the phrase, “extremist authoritarian”, is made to measure for.

  5. Roger Sowell says:

    When a public issue generates intense negative interest, policy-makers employ the very old device of stall, delay, and wait, knowing that the public’s attention-span is short.

    Kudos to you, Anthony, and keep shining the spotlight on them.

  6. David Becker says:

    This is typical of governments that attempt to dictate rules for discussion of pathological science, as the Soviets did with Lysenko. CARB is attempting to limit the “facts” to be used in their rule making only to the junk science it chooses to promulgate. Next will come penalties and persecution for those who disagree with CARB’s politicized science.

  7. Rick says:

    [Snip. No insulting our host. ~dbs, mod.]

  8. R. de Haan says:

    What a charade.
    Great work Anthony, however keeping them honest will be a major challenge.

  9. Jeff Wood says:

    Christoph is quite right: this is fascism.

    OK, the Communists do it too. Same bird, different feather.

  10. John F. Hultquist says:

    . . a regulation similar to regulations used by federal agencies . .

    Say what? Has anyone told the EPA? The SEC? NASA?
    These agencies should be clogging the courts to ensure the integrity of the information they are getting, especially from some of their own employees.

  11. John from CA says:

    Now that we’re “stuck” with AB32, it probably timely to figure out how to fix it so it can achieve something positive.

    Starting with a public campaign to encourage the new Governor to replace the CARB board with a balanced decision making group is one of many opportunities.

    Governor elect Brown stated during his campaign that he supported AB32 but not in its current form. This leads me to believe he can amend the piece of junk legislation with something more insightful.

    The only question is how to get the information he needs to understand under his nose.

  12. Brian H says:

    California seems determined to explore the outer reaches of progressive insanity. How far can the state keep moving while it’s off the rails? Not even Ahnold or Jewwy know.

  13. Billy Liar says:

    tarpon says:
    November 29, 2010 at 10:13 am

    CARB put up a paper a while back that showed ethanol cost twice the CO2 as straight oil, then Schwarzenegger made them take it down.

    Making a rule about false statements would appear to be a bit of a double-edged weapon in the environmental protection arena, would it not?

  14. Tom Davidson says:

    Accountability is a two-edges sword. Citizens should have the right to blow the whistle on CARB officials who make dishonest statements or submissions to the public and, by implication, to CARB as well. Perhaps if they realize this could boomerang on them they will drop this nonsense and stick to peer-reviewed, replicated scientific studies … NAH!

  15. Henry chance says:

    Ethanol is good for your community and country. American ethanol production creates tens of thousands of jobs, revitalizes rural communities, and reduces oil consumption by 600,000 barrels per day … and growing.

    From the big ethanol plant engineering firm. apparently they deny it takes petrol to raise, harvest and brew corn.

    http://icminc.com/ethanol/

  16. DBD says:

    Couldn’t this rule also work against false statements that CARB agrees with?

  17. Roger Sowell says:

    @John F. Hultquist: November 29, 2010 at 10:59 am

    “. . a regulation similar to regulations used by federal agencies . .

    Say what? Has anyone told the EPA? The SEC? NASA?”

    This most likely refers to the Federal law at 18 U.S.C. 1001, which is used by the FBI, among others.

    The wording of CARB’s proposed California regulation is almost a word-for-word copy of 18 USC 1001.

  18. Ken Roberts says:

    I want to know when somebody is going to do something about all of that rubbed-off carbon in the form of traction tread from all the vehicle tires; they have never been able to clean it up or to recycle it! It has to run into the millions of tonnes.

  19. tom s says:

    Isn’t there a strong earthquake due in CA? I don’t like to see people suffer but if the gods could focus the next one beneath the offices of CARB I would be grateful.

  20. JEM says:

    Good. I couldn’t be there 12/1.

    After the New Year, with enough notice, I’ll figure out a way to get there.

  21. JEM says:

    John from CA – given Brown’s history, I would not expect anything positive to come out of anything he might do with, to, or for CARB.

    I might be surprised, certainly I’ve been (negatively) surprised by the outgoing governor, but to mangle Damon Runyan, that’s not the way to bet.

  22. Jimbo says:

    Who determins what is a false statement? Would it end up in the courts? What if a ‘false’ statement is shown to come from inside CARB or a Warmist? These people never think about the law of unintended consequences.

  23. Mike D. says:

    CA state gummit is bankrupt. Cuts must be made. CARB is at the top of the list.

  24. Charles Higley says:

    David Becker says: November 29, 2010 at 10:31 am
    ” Next will come penalties and persecution for those who disagree with CARB’s politicized science.”

    This is the good part – let them try to show the real science is bad IN COURT!

    The whole manmade global warming scam would have died years ago if the “debate” had been moved into a real courtroom where the junk-dealers would have to prove themselves, or not.

  25. DesertYote says:

    #
    Billy Liar says:
    November 29, 2010 at 11:07 am

    Making a rule about false statements would appear to be a bit of a double-edged weapon in the environmental protection arena, would it not?
    #
    Tom Davidson says:
    November 29, 2010 at 11:11 am

    Accountability is a two-edges sword.

    DBD says:
    November 29, 2010 at 11:13 am

    Couldn’t this rule also work against false statements that CARB agrees with?
    #
    Jimbo says:
    November 29, 2010 at 11:47 am

    Who determins what is a false statement? Would it end up in the courts? What if a ‘false’ statement is shown to come from inside CARB or a Warmist? These people never think about the law of unintended consequences.
    ######

    The lefties have a whole cabinet of tools to make sure things only cut one way. They after all, control the press, so that can drive public attitude; they control the language, so they get to create the definitions used; and they pretty much control the court, so the can say what truth is. In the end expect nothing but the same blatantly selective enforcement of the law that we have already grown use to.

  26. pwl says:

    “The legal right of the government to lie to the people has always bothered me as it smacks of a lack of integrity by the very people allegedly empowered to have the highest levels of integrity and honesty by the people. The members of the government, in whatever capacity or role they are filling, have a special trust to uphold and when they use deception why are they allowed to get away with it and yet a different standard is applied to the people when they lie? If a defendant in a court case lies at any point while being investigated it’s treated with such great importance that it’s as if the world came to an end… but when the cult members of the cult of government lie it’s for the benefit of the people and lifted up as somehow an honorable trick that was played to get at the truth when in fact it’s no different for it was a lie, a deception, a non-truth, falsified information, a fabrication designed to give false impressions. It’s ironic that some of the best liars are likely working within the government and get rewarded for it.

    It seems that the government cult members just can’t help themselves:

    “Evidently CARB [California Air Resources Board] is contemplating a regulation that would enable penalties for what would be judged “dishonest statements or submittals” provided to it or “staff.” I think one can safely assume that it is aimed at curtailing challenges to CARB’s agenda that are based on alternative scientific information and interpretations.” – Surreality: CARB contemplating a “skeptical science” regulation with penalties

    I found this following article about the limits of when and how the police are “allowed to lie” to suspects and it’s quite shocking… they can almost get away with any thing… I wonder how this applies to those within the framework of the cult of government working as scientists (including university staff or students receiving government grants) are allowed to lie? How far can their fabrications go? What are the limits of lying in science? How many lies make it into peer reviewed papers? How many are caught or punished?



    Given that Wolfram provides a mathematical and computer science proof that even simple systems generate complex behavior that renders predictability of systems as complex as weather and climate systems impossible, how can any prediction of climate be taken to be anything except a “dishonest statement”?


    ….
    Read the full article here: http://pathstoknowledge.net/2010/11/29/if-you-want-honest-members-of-the-government-take-away-their-legal-right-to-lie-to-you

  27. Peter Miller says:

    CARB’s proposal would be fine if everyone in CARB (especially the top fat cats) would also accept responsibility – and therefore criminal prosecution – for every false statement they made.

    And the chances of that happening?

  28. Baa Humbug says:

    As an onlooker from afar (Australia) I can’t believe this sort of crap is actually happening in America. America for frigg sake. Where are the people? I don’t mean average Joe in the street, I mean the powerful lawyers, corporate types who believe in the liberty, freedom of choice, free speech etc.

    It has to stop, or it’s off to hell in a handbasket.

  29. wsbriggs says:

    Just a note of clarification. The battle we wage is one with Statists. It doesn’t matter what color – red, black, white (referring to flags toted by communists, national socialists, fascistii of other stripes) they all plan on dictating what you may do, own, think.

    CARB is of course a classic piece of Statism – where are George and Aldus when the future is now?

  30. John from CA says:

    JEM says:
    November 29, 2010 at 11:47 am
    John from CA – given Brown’s history, I would not expect anything positive to come out of anything he might do with, to, or for CARB.

    I might be surprised, certainly I’ve been (negatively) surprised by the outgoing governor, but to mangle Damon Runyan, that’s not the way to bet.

    ==========
    Just “maybe” he’ll grow up and prove us all wrong. I have to hope he wants to prove himself in the face of the past failures and I feel the best course of action is to get the best science and ideas under his nose before the “swine” sell him down the road.

    If we attempt to do the right thing — will we regret the moon when we shoot for the stars?

    The fun question, define the ultimate goal and the “best” approach.

  31. Zeke the Sneak says:

    “The workshop scheduled for December 1st to discuss approaches to prohibit dishonest statements or submittals offered to the Board or its staff has been postponed….The workshop will be rescheduled after the New Year.”

    Looks like California has dodged a bullet for the time being.

    It does bring back memories of Christmas Past, though. Ah, the mistletoe, the fireside, a little Spanish coffee, the excitement in the eyes of the little ones, the 2,000+ page ObamaCare Bill passed on Christmas Eve…Who could forget when the Administration and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid stuffed our stocking with this?

    Senate Passes Healthcare Bill With Christmas Eve Vote

  32. kadaka (KD Knoebel) says:

    From Billy Liar on November 29, 2010 at 11:07 am:

    Making a rule about false statements would appear to be a bit of a double-edged weapon in the environmental protection arena, would it not?

    Two edges would be expected on a hand-knapped spearhead. And since primitive times, the authority of government comes ultimately from the threat of force, the pointy end of a spear.

    The government will tell you what they say is the truth, the government will tell you what an ordinary citizen has said is false, at its discretion. Expect no more, no less. CARB has that down pat. They’ve also demonstrated how well they can handle spears.

    Yup, nothing really “enhances the integrity of debate” as when debaters considering presenting what they know to be the truth, realize they are at the risk of fines and/or imprisonment when “the judges” decide it’s not the truth, or perhaps just not the truth they were looking for.

    CARB needs a larger space for the hearing? Do they have any leftover Hollywood coliseum sets? They could use one for when they start having hearings with the new rule in place, it’ll do wonders to properly set the mood.

    BTW, what is Mary Nichols doing while California’s economy burns?

  33. Grey Lensman says:

    Henry Chance says

    Quote

    From the big ethanol plant engineering firm. apparently they deny it takes petrol to raise, harvest and brew corn.

    Unquote

    You mean that they cannot use ethanol to raise, harvest and brew corn?

    Whoda thunk it

  34. jae says:

    LOL. Californica has finally become a complete bankrupt joke. I will fight against bailing those morons out of their misery!

  35. Gary Pate says:

    Well Jerry Brown is the [snip] we are left with but since he is still drinking the AGW kool-aid I doubt he would put anyone better in place. He gave the current head of CARB a job his first time around…

    At least CARB will kill jobs quickly. The rest of the nation will be able to see the economic damage and avoid the idiocy my state is currently undertaking.

  36. FrankK says:

    I’ll bee bark
    and be the putty poop er

  37. Henry chance says:

    http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/epa-fraud-chevy-volt-nissan-leaf-actually-get-only-23-25-mpg/

    Chevy and Nissan electric cars do 23 MPG if we factor in the coal used to generate electric.

  38. Grumpy Old Man says:

    The truth shall make you free. Well, will it? Only if you fight for it.

  39. mojo says:

    Y’know, I remember when CARB had real work to do – LA was a smog hell, etc. Nowadays, they seem to be more interested in bailiwick maintenance.

  40. R. Craigen says:

    How about prohibiting “dishonest statements” BY (as opposed to TO) them?

    How the h@#$ do they propose to determine what constitutes a “dishonest” (as opposed to “false”) statement? Is this only a weasel word that permits ANYTHING THEY D@#% WELL PLEASE to be prosecutable?

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