Quote of the Week: McKibben Madness

Bill McKibben -Image: minnesota.publicradio.org

Upset that he didn’t get his way on the White House Solar Panel fiasco, Bill McKibben makes a threat. Unfortunately, the Los Angeles Times is an accessory by giving McKibben a platform from which to launch it.

From his guest editorial here:

Actually, I’ll be surprised if the White House doesn’t put up solar panels within a year. But even if they do, that would just be the barest of beginnings. Which is why, with other environmental leaders, we recently issued a call for ideas about a campaign of civil disobedience next spring — at power plants and coal mines but at White Houses too, if they don’t turn at least a little green.

So tell me Bill, what then after that if that doesn’t work?

On the plus side, it will probably be another farce like the power plant rally NASA GISS’ Dr. Jim Hansen last attended. There, Bills buds made a delusional claim to have “shut down” the Washington DC power plant.

closed-for-climate-justice

Actually the truth is, they were “shut out”. They never got past the gate, and the power plant ignored them and went humming along much like the Eaarth does.

You can read the story behind the hilarious photo above here.

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99 Responses to Quote of the Week: McKibben Madness

  1. Wilky says:

    Hey, at least the climate justice folks have a theme song:

  2. Enneagram says:

    a campaign of civil disobedience
    That we know it, that phrase is from JJ “Trains”

  3. Douglas Dc says:

    Sooner or later these Klowns will get hurt or hurt someone in the process. I suggest trying to shut down the North Slope Oil production on Jan.20,2011.
    “oh look! a Polar bear “group hug!”…

  4. Leon Brozyna says:

    Tsk, tsk, tsk … it is so unseemly when a public figure throws a hissy fit

  5. Enneagram says:

    BTW Would you please pay more respect to madness?, this is not, this is simply FOOLISHNESS.

  6. Jackie says:

    Bill just wants to support Chinese jobs and manufacturing.

  7. Henry chance says:

    Bullies
    If the technology, value or economics are there, products to conserve energy can sell. If the aesthetics are not there, they have a right to not see this stuff on the roof.
    My town has a new McDonalds with a dumpster and oil well behind it. Both have strong economic results.

  8. DesertYote says:

    Problem with the lefties, they believe the ends justify the means. And because they have been drinking the cool-aid for so long, and they believe their cause is so noble, that they are willing to do anything for it. Were is it going to end?

  9. DocattheAutopsy says:

    More like the “Quote of the Weak”.

  10. RockyRoad says:

    These people are eco-terrorists. The power plants and coal mines they plan on attacking should be armed and guarded with sufficient force that interruption of their operations isn’t a possibility. Get law enforcement out to protect these critical assets, then have internal security forces as a backup. Train the operators and miners in the proper use of self defense and asset protection, if necessary.

    Then by all means, throw these eco-terrorists in jail and throw the book at ‘em. As part of their repatriation into society, apply service hours in which they are required to assist those without heat and electricity make it through the coming cold winter. And if that doesn’t work, let them spend a winter in a facility without electricity or heat just to see how stupid their terrorist ideas really are.

  11. Jimmy Haigh says:

    Maybe they should start protesting at The Goreacle’s house(s). Maybe He Himself should “turn at least a little green”?

  12. Fred says:

    Gee, looks kind of cold out there. Wonder what they’d do for warmth if the power plant actually did close? Nice jackets too – most appear to be made from petroleum products.

  13. It saddens me to see my high school classmate, Bill McKibben, someone who is an essentially decent, intelligent, educated and well-meaning person, become not only a true-believer, but a leader in the climate alarmism movement. There is a certain kind of person whose desire to do good in the world, to look beyond himself at the larger picture, and to belong to something larger than his own life, is so strong that once it finds satisfaction in working for a cause, all objectivity is lost. Intelligence, beneficence and ability is no protection from this vice, rather they are the levers by which some of our best and brightests have been turned to all manner of destructive political movements or cults.

  14. Enneagram says:

    Jackie says:
    September 17, 2010 at 7:41 am
    Bill just wants to support Chinese jobs and manufacturing.

    That is serious, because if everything is manufactured outside your country and worked abroad, where will you work?
    Something that perhaps you don’t know, the US currency has devaluated, in LA countries, in an average of 17-20%, in spite of the fact that treasuries try to “defend it” by buying US currency on a daily basis, but it has become increasingly difficult to stop its local devaluation, affecting export goods paid in this currency.

  15. Enneagram says:

    THE GREENER THE POORER
    Why?…
    http://www.green-agenda.com/

  16. Fred says:

    This dude should try going commando for some relief from his obviously too tight shorts.

    The blood circulation to his brain is being severely restricted.

  17. JohnF says:

    He covered himself – he is not in trouble – note the letter s at the end of House.

  18. amicus curiae says:

    strange? these people arent removed??as terrorists? yet anyone else wanting to shut a powerplant down or damage it would be on the suspect list PDQ.
    even parking and taking photos gets pommy tourists in trouble..it could be for an ulterior motive doncha know…

  19. P Gosselin says:

    And it’s guys like McKibben who say the tea partiers are violent, threatening and dangerous?

  20. Don B says:

    The calls for civil disobedience seem to be growing. From a British columnist: a government advisory agency calls for public demonstrations.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100054012/global-warming-is-dead-long-live-er-global-climate-disruption/

  21. Caleb says:

    Todays view of the “Ice-free North pole” via NASA’s “North Pole Camera.”

    http://psc.apl.washington.edu/northpole/webphotos/noaa2.jpg

    Maybe not ice-free, but I’ll bet you can get ice for free up there.

  22. latitude says:

    Which is why, with other environmental leaders, we recently issued a call for ideas about a campaign of civil disobedience next spring — at power plants and coal mines but at White Houses too, if they don’t turn at least a little green.
    We’ve run out of spare decades to deal with climate change — the summer’s events in the Arctic, in Russia, in Pakistan proved that with great clarity. We know what we need to do, and we must do it. Enthusiastically.
    =======================================================
    and this is exactly why people are thinking they are the lunatic fringe………

    The sad part, at least for them, is that people have time to be liberal when they have money, jobs, spare time, etc

  23. Vuk etc. says:

    From Greek mythology:
    Erysihitheon went insane with hunger. In desperation, he turned upon to himself. He sank his teeth into his own limbs until the death relieved him from his torture.

  24. JPeden says:

    No doubt Dr. Hansen himself is busily preparing the Giant Paper Mache’ Puppets for Climate Action’s much feared display of infantile acting-out civil disobedience. After all, NASA’s audacious new primary mission is ~”to help the Muslim Nations feel better about their historic acheivements in math, science, and engineering.”

  25. Bill just wants to support Chinese jobs and manufacturing.

    And sell books.

    Books that will be printed on the bodies of martyred trees. Trees are our fellow planetary inhabitants, living in far better harmony with nature than we do. They clean up the atmosphere we pollute with our foul carbon dioxide, and McKibben wants to tear them apart to make paper pulp.

    Oh, the Humanity!

  26. Jerry L. says:

    This “mooron” just can’t get anything right; his dog must have eaten the message that “mooobeam Holdren” sent him that changed “civil disobedience” to “civil disruption”….or on second thought, maybe the “mooron” ate it himself….

  27. Ric Werme says:

    So protesting at power plants doesn’t work too good. Doesn’t work too well, either.

    I think they should withhold their income tax payments (escrow account needed) until the White House accedes to their demands. Hit ‘em where it hurts!

  28. Sean says:

    Actually, let’s root Mr. McKibbon on. Perhaps this time they’ll shut down the coal fired power plant that heats the Capitol building. It would serve them right. DC overall gets a higher proportion of its power from coal fired plants than any other state. If they had to return to drafting legislation by hand it under the light of a candle, perhaps there would be no more 2000 page behemouths that are impossible to read let alone digest.

  29. Bryan B says:

    Is that a red pocket protector Bill? Oh right, the precautionary principal.

  30. Huth says:

    Free speech and freely we to them allow (misquoted from “Richard II”).

  31. James Sexton says:

    It must be nice to be able to live in an alternate universe as these people apparently do. Why don’t these nut jobs just put their money where their mouth is and leave the rest of us alone. If they don’t want electricity from traditional methods, the answer is easy. Turn the switch off. Today, one could, put up a windmill and solar panels on their homes and live off of the grid. GO FOR IT!! Quit running around in a gasoline powered vehicle. Quit wearing petroleum based clothing.

    “He who would do good to another must do it in Minute Particulars: general Good is the plea of the scoundrel, hypocrite, and flatterer, for Art and Science cannot exist but in minutely organized Particulars.”—————-William Blake

  32. Bill Marsh says:

    “White Houses”? Does that mean they are going to protest against random houses that are white, or that they think there is more than one ‘White House’?

  33. jorgekafkazar says:

    UnfrozenCavemanMD says: “It saddens me to see my high school classmate, Bill McKibben, someone who is an essentially decent, intelligent, educated and well-meaning person, become not only a true-believer, but a leader in the climate alarmism movement…”

    Yeah, I think Joe Romm is the same kind of guy. If he lived next door to you, you’d think he was great…as long as you never talked about climate or weather. Hmm, maybe not about ice hockey, either, just to be on the safe side.

  34. Ralph says:

    They did the same in the UK.

    The government were all in favour of Green issues, until the Greens demonstrated outside Drax (the UKs largest power station) and threatened to close it down.

    Suddenly, Humphrey (the civil service) had a fit of the vapours, as he realised that this action might bring the entire grid down, so the supposedly Green Government turned all authoritarian and chased them away.

    Environmentalism is all so fluffy and wonderful, until reality rears its sobering head.

    .

  35. erik sloneker says:

    Does it not occur to this man that the White House roof is likely packed with communications hardare and defensive weaponry in case of another 911 event and doesn’t have the room to accomodate solar panels?

    REPLY: McKibben see the world through green colored glasses, his view is thus filtered so that anything not green doesn’t show up. – Anthony

  36. jorgekafkazar says:

    Bill Marsh says: “‘White Houses’? Does that mean they are going to protest against random houses that are white, or that they think there is more than one ‘White House’?”

    Wait till you see all the white houses this winter!

  37. Grumpy Old Man says:

    God save us from decent, well educated, intelligent, well meaning persons. They always know how you should live and how you should spend your money. Under their guidance of course – alternatively, you can just call them fascists.

  38. Enneagram says:

    a campaign of civil disobedience next spring — at power plants and coal mines
    Is it not that NEXT in the northern hemisphere is AUTUMM?

  39. Enneagram says:

    Vuk etc. says:
    September 17, 2010 at 8:43 am
    These things happen when a platonic month ends…Sad but necessary!

  40. cedarhill says:

    They are making progress. Notice they choose “spring” to do their demonstrations. Weather should be light jacket attire. Shame if there’s late snow storms and freezing weather. But never bet against The Gore Effect.

  41. Biblioholic Bill says:

    The face of all those crazies who yearn above all to run your life.

  42. johnmcguire says:

    Grumpy old man pegged it: fascists. UnfrozencavemanMD you dont really know the guy as well as you think. I think he is a spoiled brat and not all that intelligent. Were he intelligent he would not be saying the things he says.

  43. Billy Liar says:

    Henry chance says: September 17, 2010 at 7:42 am

    My town has a new McDonalds with a dumpster and oil well behind it. Both have strong economic results.

    Bradford, PA?

  44. BBD says:

    And to think, all this tripped off by an El Nino.

    The only thing that can save the US power generating infrastructure now is if Bob Tisdale can explain to Bill McKibben what ENSO is and get him to calm down before any real harm is done.

  45. Nolo Contendere says:

    I believe Al Gore built a replica Whitehouse after the 2000 elections, so I guess there are at least two. Al uses a lot of electricity per all reports, so maybe Wacky Bill was right to use the plural.

    What Forrest Gump say? Stupid is as stupid does….

  46. Steve Oregon says:

    He could this

    “Arrow first came to public attention in July 2000 when he scaled a U.S. Forest Service building in downtown Portland, Oregon and lived on a nine-inch ledge for eleven days, to protest the plan to log near Eagle Creek, Oregon.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tre_Arrow

  47. John from CA says:

    McKibben didn’t do his homework. Does he own stock in solar?

    Greening Project Status Report
    The White House

    source: http://www1.eere.energy.gov/femp/pdfs/greening_whitehouse.pdf

    “The Greening of the White House initiative was announced by President Clinton in 1993 to make the complex “a model for efficiency and waste reduction.” The initiative resulted in an action plan that contained strategies in five areas: energy efficiency; building ecology; air, water, and landscape; materials, waste, and resource management; and managerial and human factors.”

  48. nc says:

    Next spring, why not winter? Notice how these nut jobs are quiet in the winter.
    I have lost a couple of friends because of this man is bad for mother earth rhetoric. I tell them right off, put your wallet where your mouth is. I ask them why they are on the grid. Where is your electric car, on right it won’t pull your holiday trailer. Hey I am all for enviromental stewardship but as people are supposedly getting better educated they seem to be getting stupider. I suspect it is a result of our liberal education system drumming this liberal BS in peoples minds every day and not allowing them to think.

  49. M White says:

    This’ll make his head explode

    http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog

    “That’s enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 2041 years straight.”

    “We have more oil inside our borders, than all the other proven reserves on earth”

    “and it’s all right here in the Western United States”

  50. H.R. says:

    Those green plastic hard hats the protesters are wearing in the photo taken outside of the power plant are made of……… well, I just don’t have the heart to break the bad news to them. They’re all so sincere and all that.

  51. Tommy says:

    I don’t have a problem with people protesting nonviolently in a non-disruptive way, even if I don’t agree with them.

  52. AJB says:

    DesertYote says:
    September 17, 2010 at 7:42 am
    Were is it going to end?

    IMHO, ultimately war – either civil or intercontinental. There is too much money invested (or rather vitual debt racked up). We can only hope that the sun performs a moderating influence as it has done in the past throughout history.

  53. Jimash says:

    “we recently issued a call for ideas about a campaign of civil disobedience next spring — ”
    Inside the threat is the admission of defeat.
    if they had been right in the first place, they wouldn’t have to wait for Spring.

    Now they just want to make trouble.

  54. Jimash says:

    “I don’t have a problem with people protesting nonviolently in a non-disruptive way, even if I don’t agree with them.”

    Protests are one thing.
    Civil disobedience has to be disruptive .

  55. John from CA says:

    M White says:
    September 17, 2010 at 11:06 am
    This’ll make his head explode

    http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog
    “That’s enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 2041 years straight.”

    ========

    So much for the dependence on foreign oil argument. If this is true, it’ll be headline news.

  56. johnnythelowery says:

    As Monty Python’s sketch about the Parliamentarian who’d finally had enough of all the Whinging: Got up and said: “….Sick and Tired people are Sick and Tired of being told that Sick and Tired people are Sick and Tired. ….And…… I’m Sick and Tired of It !!!!!!”

    I’m sick and tired of these Green people.

    But that girl in the middle does looks cute. So, where do i sign up!!!????

  57. John from CA says:

    M White says:
    September 17, 2010 at 11:06 am
    This’ll make his head explode

    http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog
    “That’s enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 2041 years straight.”

    =====

    The numbers in the icecap article appear to be inaccurate. Article refers to 503 billion barrels but the link to USGS refers to 3-4.3 billion barrels; http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911

    Related to Federal Lands:
    National Oil and Gas Assessment
    http://energy.cr.usgs.gov/oilgas/noga/

    EPCA Phase III Report
    http://www.blm.gov/wo/st/en/prog/energy/oil_and_gas/EPCA_III.html

    “The results show that 279 million acres of Federal lands are within areas mapped as having oil and natural gas potential. These lands contain an estimated 31 billion barrels of oil and 231 trillion cubic feet of natural gas. The report provides an inventory of the extent and nature of limitations to development of these resources and does not make any policy recommendations in response to its findings.”

  58. Enneagram says:

    All this issue of global warming nuts/wrong science reminds me that we are really dealing with a consequence of a personality perversion named “self-conceit” which rejects as ignorance all that is common sense. This is the evil trend which we witness in every post-modern profession : The more complicated, the more “intelligent”, the more mysterious the more important “I am”. This phenomenon reaches unbelievable expressions such as MD’s rejecting to cure patients using natural medicine. One example among a million: There is one herb, known as “Chancapiedra”(stones’smasher)(*) which dissolves kidney’s stones, however they choose moore sophisticated and, obviously, more EXPENSIVE ways to do it.
    (*) Stones’ smasher (phyllantus niruri)
    http://translate.google.com/translate?client=tmpg&hl=en&u=http://www.perunaturalproducts.com/la_chancapiedra.htm&langpair=es|en

  59. Dave says:

    Next thing you know some nut will attack Discovery Channel.

  60. Enneagram says:

    johnnythelowery says:
    September 17, 2010 at 11:56 am
    I beg your pardon, what do you smoke?

  61. Enneagram says:

    Dave says:
    September 17, 2010 at 12:29 pm
    Next thing you know some nut will attack Discovery Channel.

    Hey, what about their attack on us? :-) Is it there where that japanese-canadian-astrologist-global warmist pretends to teach science? I was zapping and heard him saying: “This is exactly how the Sun works”
    Wow! That’s brain washing!

  62. David Ball says:

    But in the picture he seems to be telling us to “live long and prosper”. His lack of critical thinking skills tells me he is probably only half Vulcan ( the bottom half ).

  63. Steve from Rockwood says:

    When you don’t have a life, civil disobedience is a great way to kill an afternoon.

  64. A Crooks of Adelaide says:

    I dont think this is funny. Looking at it from their point of view, if you have hyped yourself up to believe the end of the world is nigh, this is exactly the sort of desperate action you would start to contemplate when you suffer a reversal and ordinary channels start closing. I think these are dangerous times while the wheels are visibaly falling off the AGW wagon, but major public organisations or figures stay sitting on the fence. Luckily, so far these proposals are only sad, feel-good, token gestures aimed at soft targets, but unless things cool down soon, Id be worried about more Silver Springs. I sure hope some of you guys out there on the front line are OK.

  65. wayne says:

    They are not smart enough to at least do their bit in the right country where it might have an impact. In China they could shutdown one a week and not keep up.

    Move to China McKibben’s children, to China, that is where your calling lies.

  66. Mauibrad says:

    The guy’s a frickin’ Nutjob.

  67. R. de Haan says:

    Fortunately we have the ability to flood these morons with oil.
    http://icecap.us/images/uploads/What_the_Adminstration_and_Environmentalists_Don.pdf

  68. peterhodges says:

    I would like to remind at least Americans that were it not for civil disobedience we would still be British.

    “Disobedience to tyranny is obedience to God”

  69. Tim Williams says:

    M White says:
    September 17, 2010 at 11:06 am

    This’ll make his head explode

    http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog

    “That’s enough crude to fully fuel the American economy for 2041 years straight.”

    “We have more oil inside our borders, than all the other proven reserves on earth”

    “and it’s all right here in the Western United States”

    As pointed out above, I believe this to be an utterly ridiculous estimate. The true figure is likely to be nearer 3.6bill (http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=1911 ) USGS April 2008.

    Whats more, it’s also likely to pretty expensive oil to extract in comparison with the much, much larger Saudi reserves.
    Bear in mind that the US is consuming around 7 bill bbl p.a (http://www.eia.doe.gov/energyexplained/index.cfm?page=oil_home#tab2)

  70. Steve from Rockwood says:

    @ M White & John from CA.

    The Bakken is oil in shale, small isolated puddles of oil trapped in a vast amount of non-permeable shale. Estimates go as high as 500 billion barrels. But this is like the argument that there is more gold in the Pacific Ocean than in all the gold mines in the world. OK, so how do you propose mining the Pacific Ocean? Ah, thanks to a “recently developed methodology”. Queue the conspiracy theorists…

  71. Steve from Rockwood says:

    @peterhodges

    We just ignored the British (in Canada) until their accents changed.

    But seriously, a bunch of government paid “scientists” marching against the tyranny of their government – for not erecting solar panels on the White House?

  72. Tom Jones says:

    But the best of McKibben is at the end of his op-ed piece. Nothing like a little totalitarianism if all else fails, and the idiots just won’t agree with you.

    “We’ve run out of spare decades to deal with climate change — the summer’s events in the Arctic, in Russia, in Pakistan proved that with great clarity. We know what we need to do, and we must do it. Enthusiastically.”

  73. Steve from Rockwood says:

    @ M White & Tim Williams.
    The estimates at 500 billion barrels seem to be right. The only problem is the fact that we are talking about shale-oil. Small little puddles of oil trapped in a vast shale unit.
    If you take the amount of gold in the Pacific Ocean it likely exceeds that of all of the gold mines in the world. So where is the line-up to mine the Pacific Ocean for gold? I think it starts right beside the line-up to extract oil from shale in the Bakken.

  74. Peter Miller says:

    At the end of the day, the one sure cure for a bolts-in-the-side-of-the-head liberal, such as Mr McKibben, is a seriously good mugging.

    It is truly amazing how much clarity of thinking a near death experience brings. In exceptional cases, two muggings may be needed to cure the affliction.

    BS? I have seen it with my own eyes – logic and good science rarely works, so a good mugging is about the only guaranteed cure for a serious liberal.

  75. mike sphar says:

    Its probably a good time to buy a little more of XOM. They pay a reasonable dividend.

  76. RockyRoad says:
    September 17, 2010 at 7:49 am
    “These people are eco-terrorists. The power plants and coal mines they plan on attacking should be armed and guarded with sufficient force that interruption of their operations isn’t a possibility. Get law enforcement out to protect these critical assets, then have internal security forces as a backup. Train the operators and miners in the proper use of self defense and asset protection, if necessary.”
    ***************************************************************

    Back in the mid 1970’s I was living in Maryland. I was developing materials to train nuclear power plant operators. A neighbor was the head of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission department that assessed security at nuclear power plants.

    The Eco-Nazis were using the technique of serial law suits to delay the completion of nuclear power plants for years. The electric utility would then go bankrupt because they were paying all of the construction expenses for years after they estimated that they would be up and earning revenue.

    The latest ploy of the Eco-Nazis was to sue over the security plans because terrorists might get into the plant and do something (undefined) bad. (It was at the same time the pathetic fool Jimmy Carter was bungling the Iranian Hostage Crisis.)

    Since the future of life on earth was at stake should the terrorists have their way with a nuclear power plant, I was curious as to what the procedure was. If it were so important to keep terrorists out, I assumed that any unauthorized person caught inside the fence would automatically be shot on sight.

    Makes sense to me, anyway.

    My friend was horrified at the suggestion! Au contraire, the security personnel were told to place themselves between the terrorists and sensitive areas and defend themselves should they be attacked.

    Folks, there is sheer lunacy inside the beltway. I suspect that there are mind altering drugs in the drinking water. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

    Regards,

    Steamboat Jack (Jon Jewett’s evil twin)

    PS Hey guys, the last paragraph of the above is a joke! Get it? A Joke! Part of it anyway. The problem with dealing with Eco-Nazis and Warmists is that sarcasm and irony seamlessly blend into their reality. Like Alice, they have taken the “one Pill (that) makes you larger AND (the) one Pill (that) makes you small”. They are ten feet tall and chasing a rabbit because the hooka smoking caterpillar told them where to go. Too bad they’ve lost their heads.

    http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/white-rabbit/2216d0f873402bd430282216d0f873402bd43028-165662950921?q=one%20pill%20makes%20you%20larger&FROM=LKVR5&GT1=LKVR5&FORM=LKVR

  77. John from CA says:

    Steve from Rockwood says:
    September 17, 2010 at 3:39 pm
    @ M White & John from CA.

    The Bakken is oil in shale

    ====
    Thanks Steve,
    I noticed that the shale fields are very concentrated in the Colorado area as well but the technology to extract the oil without strip mining is 10-20 years away.

    I also noticed that 107 million barrels have been produced from the Bakken so I’m guessing it isn’t all shale.

  78. Louis Hissink says:

    Fred

    ” Nice jackets too – most appear to be made from petroleum products”.

    A neat way of emphasing the role mining plays in society is to ask one of the doubters to play a game – to undress and take off any any item of clothing and adornment that relies on the mining and petroleum industries for its existence.

    The logical end is that your victim has to stand butt-naked in front of the audience, (if there is one), for everything they wear, be it underwear, spectacles, tooth filling, cataract replacements, etc etc etc etc, relies on mining in the first place, and has thus to be removed.

    A colleague uses this method of explanation when confronted with obstinate politicians who think mining needs to be banned or curtailed. They see the lilght very quickly every time.

  79. wayne says:

    If anyone should read my comment above of “McKibben’s children moving to China” and take that as personal, it wasn’t meant that way, it was to his “dedicated followers”, that kind of figurative “children”. Sorry Mr. McKibben, I meant nothing so personal and I’ll try to watch the way I use such words in the future.

  80. Steve from rockwood says:

    John from ca
    It is all shale but some of those puddles are pretty big.
    Try the size of the oil sands in canada. We would have to excavate every lake and city to get those trillion barrels.
    If there is money to be made they are there. If there is not, then a conspiracy theory isn’t far behind.

  81. Steve from rockwood says:

    @Wayne
    Did not really get your post but didn’t think you were addressing specific children.
    I think you were suggesting that china needs to do the work to reduce pollution and cut back on co2 but can you expand?

  82. Steve from rockwood says:

    John from ca
    How can you strip mine something that is 1,000 feet below surface?

  83. Schadow says:

    I’ve always regarded McKibben as a rather tragic figure. More like a football half-time arranger of starry-eyed pubescent acolytes into large “350” displays, followed by lavish self-congratulatory appeals to Joe Romm for praise – only luke-warmly delivered. Bill just isn’t in the running for the big time nod from Soros and the Progressive kremlin.

  84. Tim Williams says:

    Steve from Rockwood says:
    September 17, 2010 at 3:52 pm

    @ M White & Tim Williams.
    The estimates at 500 billion barrels seem to be right. The only problem is the fact that we are talking about shale-oil.

    What evidence do you have for this 500bill figure? Please provide a link.

    I have not seen this figure from any reliable source. All estimates I’ve seen cite the USGS 3.6 Bill barrels, any many consider this too large.
    A good read about Bakken can be had here…http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3868

  85. dp says:

    There are probably more appropriate forums to call that guy a nutter so I won’t do it here, but he does remind me of this misbegotten bit of governmental malpractice:

    The Canadian Hydrogen Highway!
    http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/BC-Canada-hydrogen-highway.htm

    Say, how’s aboot them Kanukians there, eh?

    http://www.greencar.com/articles/hydrogen-highway-leads-2010-winter-olympics-vancouver.php

    Now before everyone tries to tear me a new one, half my family are Kanukians, eh. We have good chuckles aboot which side of the border is losing ground faster against big stoopid government, eh. And yeah, they really say eh, hey. Them Quebeckers, not so much. Those fellers have the golden highway.

  86. Steve from Rockwood says:

    @ Tim Williams
    Try this link.
    http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/ftproot/features/ngshock.pdf
    I think we are on the same page here Tim. I don’t believe the Bakken is a world class oil field although it is producing oil in both the U.S. and Canada. The number 500 billion probably refers to the total contained oil in the shale formation. What they seem to be extracting are pockets of pooled oil from a middle member formation (a more porous formation located within the shale) and within the shale directly by fracture technology and horizontal drilling.
    My point about the 500 billion number is, sure maybe there is that much oil, but what is the cost to extract. Right now they are taking the easy stuff.

  87. beng says:

    Apologies to the mods, but that guy looks as creepy as his politics.

  88. Toto says:

    UnfrozenCavemanMD says:
    September 17, 2010 at 8:09 am

    It saddens me to see my high school classmate, Bill McKibben, someone who is an essentially decent, intelligent, educated and well-meaning person, become not only a true-believer, but a leader in the climate alarmism movement. There is a certain kind of person whose desire to do good in the world, to look beyond himself at the larger picture, and to belong to something larger than his own life, is so strong that once it finds satisfaction in working for a cause, all objectivity is lost. Intelligence, beneficence and ability is no protection from this vice, rather they are the levers by which some of our best and brightests have been turned to all manner of destructive political movements or cults.

    Good comment. Smart enough to make trouble, not smart enough to stay out of trouble.

  89. John from CA says:

    Steve from rockwood says:
    September 17, 2010 at 7:49 pm
    John from ca
    How can you strip mine something that is 1,000 feet below surface?

    =====

    Good question

    From what I read when M White posted above, they either need to bring the shale to the surface and heat it to extract the oil which leaves a mountain of waste to deal with or drill and heat an underground area to do the same without the waste. Shell is supposedly working on this but its 10-20 years away before it produces any volume.

  90. Steve from Rockwood says:

    @ John from CA.

    Strip mining is surface mining or open pit mining. It is fairly cheap although environmentalists are increasingly against it, probably because it visually doesn’t look great. At 1,000 ft under a mountain, the Bakken oil shale would have to be mined using underground methods (very unlikely), or fractured in sections (I know more about mining than oil recovery). The fact that oil companies are there working on the problem is a positive sign. But the low relative production suggests the cost/reward ratio is not there even at $75/barrel.

    Check out the Canadian oil sands projects. This is considered to be the largest oil reservoir in the world based on extractable oil (but not at todays prices). There are 1-2 trillion barrels of oil there. Only 10% was thought to be extractable but this is based on current world prices. Estimates of 5 million barrels a day are given if oil prices continue to rise.

    This is why I have a problem with peak oil. Much of it is based on economic limits and not production or reserve limits. Economics can change. We will run out of oil eventually, but not for a long time.

  91. Alexander Vissers says:

    This man really must hate life and the eearths inhabitants. Just look at his possesed expression; would this man ever have any fun in life? No! And that is why he cannot stand other people actually liking their lives and enjoy prosperity. In earlier days he would have found refuge in a monastery and he would be harmless to the world, now he has to spoil everbody elses fun with apocalyptic prophesies. How can he and others be so convinced of things you most probably impossibly can know and for which todate there is no convincing evidence whatsoever? If only we could restrict beliefs and convictions to the religious domain, common sense would flourish everywhere else like never before.

  92. willard says:

    Herein lies the proof that Thoreau was a terrorist:

    > All men recognize the right of revolution; that is, the right to refuse allegiance to, and to resist, the government, when its tyranny or its inefficiency are great and unendurable.

    Source: http://thoreau.eserver.org/civil1.html

  93. David L says:

    I thought solar panels were a net zero return on energy investment? Is that true or not? If not, it’s got to be darn close to just breaking even.

  94. Djozar says:

    David L.

    You need to look at some back issues of WUWT. Only in very limited cases can solar break even. I started on solar projects over 20 years ago, and there just isn’t a payback on investment.

  95. Lazar says:

    Anthony Watts is absolutely right for raising the very important question “what then after that if that doesn’t work?” History teaches us that the original Boston Tea Party was an illegal act of civil disobedience which led to war! Clearly the current Tea Party movement are modelling themselves on terrorists. WHERE WILL THEY STOP? Frankly, they should be incarcerated before they cause any trouble. Along with the hippies. But maybe in seperate prisons.

    REPLY: I don’t share your view that “they should be incarcerated before they cause any trouble”. That view is just as wrong as can possibly be. Thought police and all that. If crimes are committed, then the law in enforceable, not before. – Anthony

  96. protester says:

    Misleading – the activists did not want to get inside the facility, they were blocking the entrance gates so that coal could not be delivered and they were successful in blocking the gates for the entire day. More than anything it was meant to be symbolic – the youth are not willing to let our capitol building or our country to be run on fossil fues any longer

    A correction would be appreciated, but I won’t hold my breath – you thrive on belittling and mocking those who would like to exercise the precautionary principle on an issue of epic proportions. (if you do correct please include the entire quote)

    REPLY: Explain why then they have a sign that says “Closed for Climate Justice!” I’ll be happy to issue a retraction if they issue a press release that says the photo (their own from their website) gives a misleading impression that our group “closed” the power plant when in fact we did not. – Anthony

  97. mojo says:

    Ah, yes. Bill “Crazy Eyes” McKibben.

    Ignore.

  98. John Murphy says:

    protester

    The precautionary principle has a use only for people like you who want to impose yourselves on mankind.

    AWG advocates of the “principle” never take account of the cost of doing whatever it is they want to do – only what they say is the cost of not doing it. As one small example, what do you reckon would be the cost of shutting down every coal fired power station and banning gasoline use for transport?

  99. John Murphy says:

    protester

    The precautionary principle is an out-and-out con trick.

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