As a man, I feel eco-discriminated against…

I’m (almost) always a supporter of ideas that conserve energy or resources. Theoretically then, I’d be for this minimalist bathroom idea show below, made with a minimum of materials, it looks like something from IKEA.

Only one problem…the dual use design is just a wee bit problematic:

Yes that’s right, it’s the eco pee n’ wash urinal combo hand wash stand.

From “Yanko Design” who writes:

Whoa! Men To Pee and Wash In The Same Stand!

I’m not a man so I really don’t know how comfortable you guys are going to be with this thought…peeing and washing hands in the same urinal stand! What Designer Yeongwoo Kim has done is incorporated the wash basin just above the spot you take aim to pee. The reason cited is that you’ll save a water flush cycle, coz when you rinse your hand after the job (I hope you guys do that!), the same gray water can be used to cleanse the urinal basin. Tell me, how many of you guys will be comfortable with this? For once, my opinion doesn’t count, but I do find it funny!

Eco Urinal is an iF Concept Design 2010 winning entry!

========================================

Well good for that, ew.

My question back is this: Since equality is important in our society today, please show me the water saving design for women’s restrooms.

Oh, no pee n’ wash design for that? Focus groups said Eww! ? Check.

I really don’t want to save water that much, and I really don’t think anyone else does either. Modern sanitation is one of mankind’s greatest health achievements. Let’s not mess with success. Plus, I don’t think the glass would survive long in a public restroom.

I think this is a FAIL blog candidate. Like George Costanza’s travel dilemma , faced with one of these on a road trip I wouldn’t go to the bathroom the entire trip.

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150 thoughts on “As a man, I feel eco-discriminated against…

  1. It kind of makes sense to me, and saves space at least in the mens room. The graphics are a bit of a photoshop disaster though. Bad reflections makes it look like there’s a splash guard right where we’d really not want it.

  2. I honestly don’t see what difference it makes from a hygiene standpoint per-se. If you (or rather if *one*) can’t visit a urinal in that format without accidentally directing a jet above waist height, there are more fundamental problems.

    The big problem is behaviour; queues form at urinals, not at basins. Increasing the time spent at a urinal may encourage people to skimp on the essential washing up.

  3. Oy but I wonder if the Chacaltaya glacier in Bolivia is back to normal cant get any AGW sites to show anything later than 2008…..suspicious…

  4. Well first of all, what happens when it’s used by a whole bunch of people who don’t actually wash their hands?

    Secondly, what mechanism is in place to make the “sink” water flow down the glass as a curtain, rather than a stream?

    Nice idea, but reality is going to bite this one.

  5. Well since urine is supposed to be sterile anyway; you could always just pee on your hands to wash them; and that wouuld do away with the faucet for a truly minimalist design; and ordinary niceties prohibit description of the universality of such a design.

    Izzis a serious climate issue ?

  6. Actually,

    I find the design pretty clever. Water saving IS something to be concerned about in areas that experience frequent droughts.
    However, I find the design to have shortcomings in bathrooms frequented by NBA players. The danger of them using the wrong “receptacle” would be to “high” for my taste.

  7. For woman: Extend the bottom out to become a seat. Woman sits straddling the sink (facing wall) as opposed to the traditional direction. Lower sink height. Add make up mirror. Add bidet and paper. Add extra flush option in case no. 1 becomes no. 2. Much better design for disable people too, call it the slide in slide back out design.

  8. Longer time at one station. Longer bottle neck and a critical function leading to longer line ups. Can’t see them working at sporting events.

    If water saving is the key, why not cycle the gray water from the sink through a tank and then use it to rinse the toilets.

    Reminds me of a joke.
    2 buddies, 1 a Med student and the other an Engineering student are in the john together taking a leak.
    Med student finishes, washes his hands and proudly claims “in med school, we learn to wash our hands after using the toilet.
    Engineering student nods his head, finishes up and immediately starts to walk out of the wash room without washing his hands.
    Med student says “aren’t you going to wash your hands?”
    Engineering student replies, “No, in engineering we learn not to urinate on our hands”.

  9. I remember a Giants game in Candlestick Park (yes, that was a while ago). The johns were very busy, so busy that the rented beer went down any watering hole, including the sinks we used to wash our hands. Somehow we survived….

    I’m more concerned about splash on my pants with this design. The problem is the flat side pointed back at you. There is no splash guard. The back wall should be a V shape.

  10. I have no problems with this, per se, but I also don’t quite see the point. A sink is not merely a place to wash your hands after you pee, so these should not be used to replace sinks. Those corners are also going to be a bitch to clean.

    This seems typical of design contest entries that also bring us such items as bicycles that can’t actually be built; which is probably a good thing, because they couldn’t actually be ridden either.

  11. I you don’t piss on them, why do you need to wash your hands?

    Shit has bacteria, urine is sterile. Unless, of course, you’ve spent too much time with Mary Jane Rottencrotch.

  12. To carry water conservation to its logical conclusion …

    Let’s MANDATE that if you are taking a shower you must first pee in it while washing. .

    We save water and use existing facilities.

    I’m still working on how to pee and save water while bathing in the tub …hmmmm.

  13. Its a design desaster. Not the idea, but the sharp angles. You’ll never see that in any sanitary ware because they will collect dirt and impossible to clean. Furthermore, the curtain side walls has no flushing action for the spash

  14. Women will be required to utilize a “Whiz Freedom” (or similar device). They can rinse it out right there in that handy sink and then fold it into their pocket.

  15. MD says:
    August 30, 2010 at 3:45 pm

    Actually, women & men can be both catered to with this Australian invention-

    http://www.royalflush.net.au/

    _______________________________________
    I would want to see this one mounted in the middle of the room to save my back…..
    HMMMmmm That is the answer to BOTH of these designs. Place the toilet/urinal on one side of a wall and the sink on the other (perhaps raised a step or two) with the grey water draining into the flush tank.

  16. With modern electronics, lack of handwashing isn’t necessarily a problem. If sensors detect the patron leaving without washing, autoflush is enabled. To improve accuracy, perhaps the bottom splash guard could be angled toward the wall, giving enough foot room for point blank fire.

    With the design shown above, I suspect that the slightly inebriated may occasionally “go” between the intended stalls. Perhaps panels could be put over the empty spaces and decorated with images of toothy shark mouths or nasty metal gears as a deterrent.

    The design above also lacks the leprechaun stall(s) required by modern codes, but of course as others have pointed out, this introduces additional possibilities for accidents. I’m 6′ tall, and trying to use a “shorty” I look like a giraffe at a waterhole. :-)

  17. Christopher says:
    August 30, 2010 at 3:34 pm
    Im nearly 7 foot tall. Wonder if id be able to wee in the sink part…

    I’m nearly 6 feet tall and KNOW I can pee in the sink part…… LOL

  18. Mike from Canmore says:
    August 30, 2010 at 3:55 pm

    Longer time at one station. Longer bottle neck and a critical function leading to longer line ups. Can’t see them working at sporting events.

    If water saving is the key, why not cycle the gray water from the sink through a tank and then use it to rinse the toilets.

    Reminds me of a joke.
    2 buddies, 1 a Med student and the other an Engineering student are in the john together taking a leak….
    __________________________________________
    You forgot the chemist. He washes his hands BEFORE he takes a leak. As my safety instructor once put it. I know where that (pointing to his middle) has been but I do not know where my hands have been.

  19. @MD – I used one of those just last week!

    It was a little strange. You do your business, turn around, and hit the flush button on the top of the cistern/basin. The flush starts the water flowing out of the faucet for you to wash your hands, with the waste plug draining into the toilet cistern. keep in mind that a toilet flush is about 4 litres or more, and the flow out of the tap isn’t that fast.

    Having to straddle the toilet pan to wash your hands is a little uncomforable, especially when it’s in a 1m/3’4″ wide toilet cubicle…

  20. “faced with one of these on a road trip I wouldn’t go to the bathroom the entire trip.”

    Aw, c’mon, Anthony, this is actually kind of a cool idea. I’d definitely use it — initially just for the unique experience, and later I could probably get used to it on a more permanent basis.

    As long as the faucet is non-touch, which it looks to be, I don’t see that there is a meaningful issue in terms of sanitation. I note their photoshop picture doesn’t include a soap dispenser, but presumably that would also be included and non-touch as well? It’s not a bad idea for saving some water. Getting rid of the glass for porcelain or stainless steel should resolve your concern on that front.

  21. I wouldn’t feel comfortable sharing the space between the units with another guy’s foot. What if he decides to give you a toe tapping?

    It would also be fun to paint a translucent bullseye pattern on the bottom the glass separator, just for fun. And since when is number 1 blue????

  22. Even my dog has a better idea than that, and wastes no water whatsoever.
    Of course, my dog has an excuse, and is much more friendly to the ecology of the trees and grass.

  23. I didn’t see the head-rest on the mirror to lean against when you have had a wee bit too much spirits. Not up to date enough I think. (-)

  24. Sorry but I don’t agree that glass should ever be used in toilet designs. The image of that wash basin shattering and raining jagged shards of glass down on my penis is not a strong selling point. In fact, it would probably cause me to lock up and prevent me from actually peeing. Is this the “innovative green economy” that Barbara Boxer keeps babbling on about? Maybe she can sell these things when she’s out of a job in November.

  25. This isn’t a new idea at all, as dual function (sit style) wash/flush toilets such as this have been standard in Japan for decades. You flush and then wash your hands in a mini sink on top of the tank. The hand washing water fills the tank after you wash your hands. It’s just plain cold water and there’s no soap (and often no paper towels.)

    Don’t get me started on the single ply rice paper toilet tissue…which has no strength, no absorption, and is as rough as sandpaper…

  26. Being discharge pressure challenged I foresee potential problems arising due to trajectory undershoot/overshoot.

  27. The Japanese already have toilets that use a little sink over the tank to fill the tank:

    So, yes, there is a similar solution for everyone.

  28. Anecdote: A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away …

    Back in 1973, when I was stationed at the Naval Air Facility, at Andrews AFB, in Morningside, Maryland, I had the opportunity to visit the Operations building at the facility whilst attending business there.

    I availed myself of the restroom facilities (referred to as a ‘head’ in Navy lingo), and noticed a plaque glued to the wall above each of the urinal flush valves: “Pilots with short probes, and or low manifold pressures, please step closer.”

    :o)

  29. “If you (or rather if *one*) can’t visit a urinal in that format without accidentally directing a jet above waist height, there are more fundamental problems. ”

    There must be more fundamental problems, because I often see the tops of urinals soaked with urine. Also, some people would consider it a challenge to hit the top bin rather than the bottom. I don’t care how sanitary urine is, I don’t want to contact someone else’s. Design fail.

  30. The basic concept of handwash water to flush is fine and will have appeal to anyone from arid , metered water areas.
    The rest of the design is pure designer noodling gone wild, very wasteful of material, un-cleanable and potentially hazardous to clothing.
    Why there is anything other than variations on a funnel design target, ( see for example:
    http://www.totousa.com/ProductDetail/tabid/75/Default.aspx?ProductId=21964c70-97c2-483d-b97d-3f13a0586628&SearchId=ded5abab-ed49-41ac-ba06-386af087728e )
    is beyond me, well not too far beyond me.
    Japanese models probably include a glucose test meter as well.

  31. Minimalist Design Esthetic: A
    Functional Design Esthetic: B – (Splatters on pants, shoes, and floor)
    Psycological Design Esthetic: D – (Ewwwww!)

    This looks like a urinal that the Red Dwarf android character Crighton would appreciate, after his nipple nuts were suitably tightened!

    Crighton to Lister “Are you sure you want to go to Red Alert, Sir? I will have to change the lightbulb…..”

  32. Mrsean2k says:
    August 30, 2010 at 3:38 pm

    “The big problem is behaviour; queues form at urinals, not at basins. Increasing the time spent at a urinal may encourage people to skimp on the essential washing up.”

    I disagree, theses urinal reduce space requirements, which means more of these urinals can be put in. Also, people can just go wash their hands in the regular sinks if there is a big line – there will still be a need for some of them due to #2.

    Ideally though the urinals and sinks would be on the opposite ends of a separator wall. The hand washing leftovers would gravity collect in a basin which would then be automatically distributed to auto-flush the toilets when guys are done.

  33. It needs a soylent green dispenser. It’s high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.

  34. Chris B said on August 30, 2010 at 4:14 pm:

    Christopher says:
    August 30, 2010 at 3:34 pm
    Im nearly 7 foot tall. Wonder if id be able to wee in the sink part…

    I’m nearly 6 feet tall and KNOW I can pee in the sink part…… LOL

    Just about any guy could hit the sink, just involves having sufficient pressure and getting the trajectory right.

    —————–
    Regards sink-over-toilet designs:

    Oh yeah, I see those all the time, cute one-piece units. On TV crime shows where they’re showing the inside of the prison cells. My, that stainless steel looks easy to keep clean.
    ;-)

  35. I think a lot of people here have got hold of the wrong end of the stick. This isn’t about saving water, it’s about saving materials. As in, it uses a hell of a lot less than a urinal&sink&associated-extra-plumbing. Make the thing out of marine ply instead of ceramics, metal and plastic, and the energy budget is a tiny fraction.

    I’m not saying we necessarily need to go to that extreme, but it’s a very efficient use of materials.

    On the other hand, I have a feeling it would splash more than a simple hole in the floor.

  36. @ kadaka (KD Knoebel):

    Just about any guy could hit the sink, just involves having sufficient pressure and getting the trajectory right.

    If the hose is short or the pump is weak, stand close to the pisser or piss on your feet.

  37. With the death of AGW on the horizon, one of the “crises” in waiting is water shortages. By refusing to define how much water is needed for stream biological function (the current standard is to estimate optimum requirements), the enviros have strategically positioned the debate around the concept that “any” water for out of stream uses (i.e. hand washing, irrigation, etc.) is causing/contributing to the decline of aquatic species.

    Expect to read such silliness soon such as “water is becoming scarcer” (as if all the laws of physics have been suspended), or “irrigation is killing the planet”. I suspect at least a small part of the appeal of this type of hype is that they hope we will all soon smell as bad as the greens.

  38. Man, the comments are fast tonight. On that note, the moderators here are awesome and if we were in the same area code, I’d buy you all a beer or coffee or whatever you drink.

    @Tom 7:10 pm:

    Hey, while we’re at it, why don’t we put a drinking fountain in the thing too.

    And somewhere for a toothbrush?

  39. One deficiency of modern toilets is that you can’t practice your balancing skills while being part of the carbon/nitrogen cycle. Not having running water at our yurt, my wife got a couple of 5 gallon pickle buckets from the sandwich shop near ou primary home and uses them with “The Luggable Loo” toilet seats, http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?cmView=full&type=pod&id=0009518

    Once you get past the realization that things are a bit tippy, it works pretty well!

  40. This reminds me of the recent observation that the government wants to outlaw shower heads that work around the 2.5 gal/min law. The key idea was that there are large parts of the country that have no water shortage (in Iowa City it comes from sandpoint wells near the river that can never fail = no shortage. So, why would we have to pretend that there is a shortage because there is in some other place. We are not about to ship it to them.

    As a male I want to spend as little time as possible standing next to another man while he is going – no offense guys. Why would I want to stand there and wash my hands? Put the sinks elsewhere, please.

  41. If it’s all the way to the floor it blocks what would otherwise be a toe space and the ability to get closer and avoid floor splatter. This design would be a mess maker for the floor.
    It would be better if the bottom were off the floor 12 inches and with separation panels between urinals to promote private and comfortable use. Both with piddling and washing. Anf the glass would be a perpetually filthy thing.

  42. If your urine is blue and intermittent you should probably see a doctor.

    Also why can’t they just plumb the water from a multiple tap basin to a separate long urinal? At the toilets at my work they could install a 1 meter pipe and get the same effect.

  43. From: Dave on August 30, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    On the other hand, I have a feeling it would splash more than a simple hole in the floor.

    Did you ever see the “toilets” in the Guantanamo Bay cells? Two spots, place your feet there, then squat over the hole… They are stainless steel, of course.

    Anyone know if that style of toilet is (normally?) found elsewhere in the world?

    As far as weird “waste disposal” units go, I just Googled this interesting gallery…

  44. Kadaka.
    All over Europe (more so in the south) and Asia. Actually very clean, not that my knees could take it any more.

  45. Christopher says:
    August 30, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    okay, game over, epic fail. (for this idea)

    But, (and I’m okay with conservation…. to save money, to extend diminishing resources, to save the cost of infrastructure)….. but, uh, isn’t the planet covered with water? Isn’t this a resource management issue? Okay, maybe use them in Arizona! ?

  46. Why is it man became the hunter and could throw a spear into a beast several yards away but can’t hit the broad side of a barn when peeing? These things are WAYYYY to narrow for any man I’ve cleaned up after.

  47. In Ukraine, the toilet is a hole in the floor. There is often a porcelain covering tho I know not why. There is also a sign asking you please …do not put paper in the system. There is a basket for that. Paper gums up the works. But you won’t have any paper anyway. If you were VERY fortunate, the woman running the toilet gave you 2 squares for 2 Hyrvnia. And You’ll need those for the doorknob.

  48. Layne Blanchard says: “. . .uh, isn’t the planet covered with water?”

    That’s right; but just imagine if everyone in the world (who had one) all flushed their toilets at the same time. The amount of water in the world would be reduced by, uh, well nothing really. It all just gets moved around, again and again.

    “Isn’t this a resource management issue?”

    By George, I think he’s got it; although part of the management issue might be concern about peeing in your drinking water.

  49. What a piss poor design, looks like it has been made by someone who just started with Bryce and who still has’nt figured out how to make boolean-groups, apply proper materials and that the camera actually can move.

    And the idea is not new, anyone who uses the products from lets say TOTO knows this.

    Ah i see, Betaplug was way ahead in the que (>_<)

  50. Symon says:
    August 30, 2010 at 4:04 pm

    “I[f] you don’t piss on them, why do you need to wash your hands?

    “Shit has bacteria, urine is sterile. Unless, of course, you’ve spent too much time with Mary Jane Rottencrotch.”

    Please, don’t ever come to my house. If you actually think your genitals too are sterile (and have you ever heard of a urinary tract infection?), you are dumber than a rock, and more dangerous than a flying one. And your casual use of the “s” word doesn’t bode well either.

    Humans are germ-ridden, even when they try not to be, but obviously some are much filthier than others. Ugh.

  51. FYI, not Photoshop, it’s a CG image using 3d objects, like they do in movies these days. The only photoshopped part, probably, is the inset image of the person.

  52. “Layne Blanchard says:
    August 30, 2010 at 8:24 pm

    But, (and I’m okay with conservation…. to save money, to extend diminishing resources, to save the cost of infrastructure)….. but, uh, isn’t the planet covered with water? Isn’t this a resource management issue? Okay, maybe use them in Arizona! ?”

    Only ~1% (Which is still a lot) of all water on Earth fresh and natrurally occuring.

    The design is a bit naff IMO, you’d be better off with separate washhand basins and waterless urinals, which are common in Australia. Personally, I am all in favour of rain water collection tanks and using grey water for things like flushing toilets, cleaning exterior paths/cars etc and for non-food plant irrigation but with so many people now living in rented apartments in Australia, there is nowhere to install these systems.


  53. Urine being almost invariably sterile, I have no objection to this design as long as the “backspatter” characteristics of the voiding troughs are suitable.

    Because urine accumulating in the trough can be malodorous, however, it might be appropriate to set the washbasin to dispense a certain minimum volume of water for the combined handwash and flush when actuated.

    Those of us who became used to Philadelphia’s old and now demolished Veterans’ Stadium know full well that the washbasins in men’s public necessaries have never really been anything other then auxiliary urinals.

  54. “Anton says:
    August 30, 2010 at 10:06 pm

    Humans are germ-ridden, even when they try not to be, but obviously some are much filthier than others. Ugh.”

    You are correct, and too at the moment we walk out of the shower, they start propagating all over again. It gets worse, and not talking about our waste needs, there are ~80 species of bacteria in our eyes. There is a species of mite that lives in the hair folicle of our eye lashes. Everytime we touch someone we exchange many species of bacteiea, we even breath particles which have bacteria on it, bread for instance, and other “things” we can smell. If it weern’t for bacteria, food would be very bland. So, don’t worry too much about a little poo and pee.

  55. Layne Blanchard says: “In Ukraine, the toilet is a hole in the floor. There is often a porcelain covering tho I know not why. [gas backflow preventer] There is also a sign asking you please …do not put paper in the system. There is a basket for that. Paper gums up the works….”

    Reminds me of the sign I saw in a men’s room, circa 1953: “Please do not throw cigarettes in the urinals.”

    Someone had added below: “as it makes them soggy and hard to light.”

  56. Don’t get soap in your eye!!

    The design problem is actually that men will try and multitask and wash and pee at the same time!!! greater distance between urinals please…

  57. I think I read every comment, and didn’t see the most important point addressed: These things wouldn’t last a day in any men’s room I’ve ever observed, no matter how functional or non-functional they may be. Don’t know why a small minority of men feels the need to destroy bathroom appliances, but they seem to be in every crowd.

  58. There is no water shortage, in areas which have stand up toilets. It is wasteful to treat water to be drinkable and then flush it away rather than use grey water. My employer has modified manually flushed urinals by just removing the flush – and you do not see the difference as the basic design drained properly and there were not cigarettes buts to block the flow. It is that simple. Equally a sign saying only flush if required would do the trick.

    Toilet seats, much harder nut to crack.

  59. Chris B says:
    August 30, 2010 at 4:14 pm
    Christopher says:
    August 30, 2010 at 3:34 pm
    Im nearly 7 foot tall. Wonder if id be able to wee in the sink part…

    I’m nearly 6 feet tall and KNOW I can pee in the sink part…… LOL

    I’m 5 feet tall – not sure i can reach the basin to wash my hands thank goodness!

    /Mango

  60. KLA

    I know of a woman who accidentally used the male bathroom and thought the vitreous china wall hung urinals were basins and promptly washed her hands in one

  61. “Sean says:
    August 30, 2010 at 11:49 pm

    Equally a sign saying only flush if required would do the trick.”

    There is a saying I learnt while I was living in New Zealand, which happens to be a fairly wet country; If it’s yellow, let it mellow. If it’s brown, flush it down! Seems to work.

  62. New multi-million dollar homes in Sydney have water-saving toilets which have to be flushed five times. Even then, you have to fish out that last floating pea. Water is often insufficently hot to wash dishes to an acceptable standard of hygiene. So you wash again, this time boiling the kettle.

    Of course, you can really save water and power and let the excrement and food particles stick about for a bit.

    Maybe the pensive classes and hipsters want medieval sanitation standards to match the fashion for medieval energy sources. Along with clunky windmills along the rural hillsides we can have cholera and typhoid outbreaks in the gentrification belts.

    There’s too may people anyway!

  63. I have had some good stuff from IKEA and certainly not like this. My daughter tried the earth toilet idea but gave up, I think smell had something to do with it, and now has two conventional bathrooms in her house. Some conventional things are there because they have been tried and tested over many decades and they work.

  64. Total fail as a bathroom. Not a bath in sight. It might work as a rather unpleasant version of a men’s toilet, though.

  65. What if you just wanted to wash your hands……
    Let’s assume the last three users didn’t pee on their hands, and forgot to wash up – I’d say by the time you step up to innocently wash your hands, you get a face full of stink.
    So, you turn on the water and step back while holding your breath …. 2 gallons of water later, you step up once again to wash your hands… Efficiency down the drain.

    I’d be all for the independent sinks with gray water recycling to flush the urinals, but not the combination.

  66. Everyone knows the dirtiest item we all interact with is the……..phone, be it home, office or mobile. When I worked for Renault in the UK we had the usual cleaning staff, but we had a special lady who’d come around evey week and steralise all the office phones. Never saw that at health insurance companies like BUPA (One of the highest concentration of smokers in confined, London based offices, I have ever experienced).

  67. Minor design quibble:

    They drain through the floor? In nearly all instances where a urinal gets installed, that’ll involve going through a concrete slab. Also, I see no provision for a trap, that extra twist as seen under a sink that retains water (fluids?) to keep sewer gas from flowing up into the fixture. Thus that’ll have to be engineered into the slab in many circumstances, such as when the drain pipes are encased in the concrete, or placed under the slab.

    It doesn’t matter how shiny and/or “eco-friendly” it is, this design will not be loved in the construction trade.

  68. Don’t be so squeamish. Peeing in a urinal, and then washing your hands in a separate sink is the same as peeing in a urinal, then washing your hands in a separate sink just above the urinal. What’s so “ewww” about this?

  69. Bum rap,
    <B<Pamela Gray says:
    August 30, 2010 at 8:28 pm
    Why is it man became the hunter and could throw a spear into a beast several yards away but can’t hit the broad side of a barn when peeing? These things are WAYYYY to narrow for any man I’ve cleaned up after.<B<

    Sure there's some bad aiming but much of the mess is splash.
    The most perfectly aimed stream splashes tiny drops over board.
    The accumulation is as bad as total misses.

    Urinal designs need a shape that minimizes splash.

  70. This is not a new idea, as I remember a thesis being presented back in 1974 (UofT Engineering) that talked of urinal design that maximized splash-back and one design had a sink incorporated above that also flushed the urinal. The design above offers wonderful splash opportunity, so that is the big EWWW

  71. Sure there’s some bad aiming but much of the mess is splash.
    The most perfectly aimed stream splashes tiny drops over board.
    The accumulation is as bad as total misses.

    If you use the urinal properly, meaning the stream hits the back wall, then you have virtually no splash. It’s when guys pee into the bottom, where there may be some water or a screen, that the splashing occurs. It’s all about bad parenting ;)

  72. Sorry, that should have been minimized splash back by maximizing reflecting splash back into the urinal. There were many great diagrams of splash…with feet and legs a potential hazard with many designs

  73. MD contributed:
    August 30, 2010 at 3:45 pm
    Actually, women & men can be both catered to with this Australian invention-

    http://www.royalflush.net.au/

    I wonder how long before the water in the tank began to “ferment”. I am suspicious of any impure water standing for a period of time. Also, I use far less water when washing than is required to even partially fill a toilet tank.

    The urinal is innovative, but I suspect that the same question of insufficient volume of wash water would arise. Of course, some urinals in use today (I’ve seen them at my old high school) are completely non-flush, depending on a glass-like finish to cause all the liquid to drain away, so they would probably get by fine with a low flow volume of wash water.

    WUWT covers everything!

    IanM

  74. What about the drying function? I have this vision of wet dripping hands trying to zip up seeking a towel dispenser….

  75. “Buffoon says:

    August 31, 2010 at 7:15 am
    Don’t be so squeamish. Peeing in a urinal, and then washing your hands in a separate sink is the same as peeing in a urinal, then washing your hands in a separate sink just above the urinal. What’s so “ewww” about this?”

    One word, blockage. When the “urinal” is “backed up”, and it DOES happen, you’d have to wade though human effluent to wash your hands. Yes, ewwwww. I know what I am talking about, I cleaned drains, sewers, gutters and bogs for some weeks in between contracts in the 1990’s.

  76. Actualy, I just noticed one serious flaw. Ok, reduced materials use (Although ceramic and steel can be recycled easily), sure, this is about conservation but this clearly isn’t about hygene. The most hygenic way to DRY hands after washing is with disposable paper towles. Don’t see any “technology” in the image relating to drying hands after peeing and then washing.

    Seems to me the “water cycle” is a bit crossed.

  77. Stupid design, it minimizes the opportunity to segregate black water (urine contaminated) from grey water (handwashing effluent).

    Thinking back to my undergrad years, this thing would present some ghastly choices to drunk kids….”Which part do I puke in?”

  78. This is one of those eco-myths that won’t go away. “Save Water” like once you use it, it’s gone. Let’s all forget about the water cycle.

    Certainly when you have a drought like we did a few year back, you have to cut usage. You also need enough water processing capacity for the population. Looking on my city’s website, I see the cost of water is $2.25 / 1000 gallons. For a normal toilet, that is $0.0036 / flush. Some areas just don’t have enough fresh water supplies, but as long as you have the available supply and can process it, I say “use it”.

  79. What about children? If I take my son to the urinal, do I have to hold him over it for him to wash his hands? If so, he may kick his feet into the urinal. Or, if there is a child size version how can I be sure someone didn’t pee in the hands washing area? Either way, this is a serious health concern to me.

  80. why wash after peeing im careful and never get p on me i just wipe with paper towel. Besides the sinks in public restrooms are dirty enough as it is. after washing if you turn off the foscet you get many more germs then if you didnt wash at all. My advice only wash after number 2.

  81. Ugh, 4th one down looks like Beaver Stadium’s men’s rooms. The gigantic trough where you are pinned between two other drunk dudes and just assaulted by splashback. I don’t ask for much, but individual porcelin with splash guards is the very foundation of modern society.

    —————-
    As far as weird “waste disposal” units go, I just Googled this interesting gallery…

  82. Would you gents mind also using a Vanish Automatic Toilet Bowl Cleaner large tablet to wash your hands? That would be convenient.

    I say you gents because I guarantee you I will never use one of those.

  83. Christopher says:
    August 30, 2010 at 3:34 pm

    Chistopher – please let me know where you are going – so I can avoid restrooms in those areas! ;)

  84. The biggest problem with this design is that it wouldn’t last a day in any public restroom – unless it was seamless 16ga. stainless steel, including the sink pan.

    The second biggest is back-splash from the rear panel – the floor around these would need constant cleaning (or be constantly disgusting); but I think that concaving the back & using vertical returns for splash guards would take care of it (but would sacrifice the crisp, orthagonal design)

    The third is the position of the curb/backsplash guard – no toe space = sore back; my back hurts just looking at it. Fortunately, this also looks easily solvable by changing the angle of the back panel & moving it back 4” or so.

    Using glass for the “sink” is a non-problem, safety-wise – there are lots of safety glasses that are stronger & less shatter-prone than the porcelain sinks wh. are often used. Getting water to sheet off the back of it is a simple detailing problem (but again, I can’t quickly think of any solution that wouldn’t encroach on the nicely minimalist design). Also, I don’t see any reason why the “sink” needs to be transparent, other than design coolness.

    Anthony, the argument that modern sanitation is wonderful & we shouldn’t mess w/ success is a bit bogus, eh? I don’t think anyone would disagree, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be as efficient as possible about it. Whatever happened to trough urinals? I bet a trough urinal like the theater in the small town where I grew up had, updated w/ modern technology, would be the most efficient – except for maybe those waterless urinals. Ditto for the reverse gender discrimination (yeah, I saw the bulge in your cheek, but I’m being tongue-in-cheek pedantic, so there) – men’s & women’s restrooms are already gender-specific and after designing several thousand of them, I don’t recall hearing any complaints. The biggest restroom job I ever did was all of the them in the old Mile-High Stadium here in Denver. All of the women’s restrooms had female urinals – a sort of narrow toilet. We polled a lot of women about whether to keep them or not, and to a woman, the reaction was “Totally gross! You’ll never catch me on one of those things!” Out they went.

    Other than those caveats, looks like a good, space-saving concept, if not fully-realized design. Building square footage is expensive, plumbing rough-ins are expensive, and getting enough restroom space while running the regulatory gauntlet is getting more challenging every year.

    Not wash my hands after peeing? Eeewwwww! My mind is made up, so please don’t confuse me w/ any inconvenient facts about urine being sterile, or my genitals being cleaner than my face.

    ————————-

    Mosomoso – loved your post: “Pensive classes,” “gentrification belts.” Hee hee.

  85. The design has a significant flaw. The angle of the urinal back will produce splash back. May save water but it’ll drive up your Dry Cleaning bills.

    Note: they already make waterless urinals that thankfully one doesn’t need to wash ones hands in.

  86. PaddikJ

    I design sanitary as well as HVAC systems. The trench or trough urinal is currently banned by most U.S. plumbing codes; the only exception I know is for New Orleans.

    I suppose someone got the example above passed. I can see a few “regulatory” problems. There’s no accomadation for ADA or disabled individuals. The traps for the urinals will have to be run in the slab or floor, meaning coordination is critical (as opposed to walled mounted urinals). If the flow from the faucet is limited, uric acid will eat away at the steel. If the flow from the faucet is not limited, it will exceed code standards. Usually lavatories require some hot water; wouldn’t want to be standing their with parts of y body exposed to a hot water flow.

    Neat design, wouldn’t want to design it.

  87. Even the best, well maintained, decent flush volume urinal stinks to high heaven. I want to empty my badder and exit the immediate vicinity ASAP. I probably spend at least as much time washing my hands as I do urinating. This is a DUMB idea. Just watch human behavior in an airport bathroom. Take note of how many don’t wash their hands. A hell of a lot them don’t bother to flush! The autoflush feature was a great innovation…this one will probably be popular in Europe.

  88. Djozar,

    Interesting about trough urinals being banned. Do you happen to know the history? I assumed they’d been discontinued because we’ve become more prissy & privacy conscious – I can’t think of any public health rationale.

    As I’m sure you’re aware, there is no such thing as an accessible urinal – ADA reqm’ts are satisfied by the water closets & stalls, wh. wouldn’t go away.

    Nanny Government already requires temperature limiting on shower controls, so I don’t believe adapting them to lavatory faucets would be much of a challenge (and if properly designed, all of the sink water would sheet down the back).

    All things considered, I’d guess that eliminating dedicated lavatory space & associated rough-ins would still be a money-saver, both up-front & life-cycle.

  89. PaddikJ;

    I agree there is no ADA urinal; instead we’re directed to install conventional urinals at lower heights. Supposedly you can pull a wheelchair up to them. If I was handicaped, I’d head for the water closet.

    I used to have a history on the code deleting the troughs; they ARE still in use but they are just rare. I’ll try to find it tonight and pass it on.

    The problem with tempering valves on the lavatories is cost and space. In this design, they’d be tough to install.

    On a life cycle, I’d guess it might save money. The sanitarty ruiser will be more expensive, but it’s probably made up in space savings.

    Since it’s been brought up by others, I’ll make mention of the waterless urinals. They DO work, and they are less expensive to install. However, the uric acid in the units tend to crystalize quickly, requiring cleaning the sanitary once a month. There’s also a problem with people for seem reason draining the non-Newtonina fluiod that serves as a seal; once the seal’s gone, the odor will overwhelm the space.

  90. I think it’s funny that so many have been brainwashed to think you MUST wash your hands after you pee in a public restroom. Most people never wash their hands after they pee at home, and I’m willing to bet, never do after peeing outside.

    Urine is sterile, so it is unnecessary.

    Actually, it’s a feminist thing. It’s more important for women, because they’re wiping from a relatively unsanitary area. Men are not.

    Anyhow, washing your hands too often leads to a weak immune system.

  91. Pamela Gray says:
    August 30, 2010 at 8:28 pm

    Why is it man became the hunter and could throw a spear into a beast several yards away but can’t hit the broad side of a barn when peeing?

    Because sometimes the hydrodynamic pressure sets up a resonance frequency.

    That’s an image you’ll take to your grave… ;-)

  92. The house I had in Japan for 3 years had a toilet that had a depression in the tank cover that formed a small washbasin. When flushed the toilet refilled the tank via a spout into the small washbasin, which drained into the tank. Very useful for a half bath or toilet cubicle.

    And the toilet also gave you the option of “small flush” or “large flush”.

    Very eco conscious, back in 1990 timeframe.

    Energy costs in Japan are huge, so energy conservation measures such as drying clothing on a line and using an electric dryer just to fluff them up are normal everyday responses to the high electricity costs.

  93. Pamela Gray: I now refuse to clean up after the male of the species as I am tall, oldish and just had cataract surgery…and the normal household ‘loo’ is not designed to be a urinal; it is designed to be sat on. I also refuse to have a stinking bathroom or cloakroom, so males are requested kindly to sit while using said loos. If they wish to stand we have an outside ‘pissoir’, constructed by my other half!

  94. Bill says:
    August 31, 2010 at 1:38 pm . . .

    “I think it’s funny that so many have been brainwashed to think you MUST wash your hands after you pee in a public restroom. Most people never wash their hands after they pee at home, and I’m willing to bet, never do after peeing outside.

    “Urine is sterile, so it is unnecessary.

    “Actually, it’s a feminist thing. It’s more important for women, because they’re wiping from a relatively unsanitary area. Men are not.

    “Anyhow, washing your hands too often leads to a weak immune system.”

    Say what? I wash my hands every time, and in public restrooms, I’m very careful not to turn off faucets with my clean hands or touch door handles on the way out. Those things are filthy. Mostly because of people like you touching them with contaminated hands.

    Urine may be sterile, if you don’t have an infection, but your genitals are not.

    How often is washing your hands too often in your opinion? I wash mine thirty or more times a day because I have many animals, and my immunity is perfect. I never get sick. The notion that we need to be dirty to boost our immune systems is absurd. By not eliminating harmful bacteria, you are forcing your immune system to deal with unnecessary things. It has plenty of exposure to bacteria without adding to the load.

    The fact that you were raised by wolves is irrelevant to the value or non-value of hand-washing. I hope you don’t have any contact with food that others eat. Every e-coli breakout in this country is invariably traced to some food-handler or food-processor who didn’t wash his or her hands after using the bathroom, possibly thinking that his or her genitals were clean (e-coli migrates from the point of “origin”). One of worst in recent years was laughably blamed on cows on a neighboring farm–presumably to protect illegal immigrant harvesters from public wrath, but the Federal Government admitted a year later that this was just a “theory.”

    I feel sorry for any wife, girlfriend, boyfriend or what-have-you who may be in your life. Ditto for children and pets. Are you, by any change, one of those hippie Greens who think being “natural” (i.e., grubby) is good? I happen to favor human progress, but to each his own . . . .

  95. Annei, thanks for the info on the pissoir. My grandpa had a Christmas morning tradition of going out to the front porch before dawn and peeing his name into the snow:

    James Stanislaus Clark. He had a second middle name as well but could never manage to write all 4 in one take. Drove me grandma to an early morning Tom and Jerry.

    It was in ornate Catholic cursive as neat as you please too.

  96. “d says:
    August 31, 2010 at 9:41 am

    why wash after peeing im careful and never get p on me i just wipe with paper towel. Besides the sinks in public restrooms are dirty enough as it is. after washing if you turn off the foscet you get many more germs then if you didnt wash at all. My advice only wash after number 2.”

    Here in Aus where I work a few years ago, all the washhand basins were replaced with “water saving” basins. So the tap spout has a flow restrictor, which is OK. These new basins are “automatic”, so that you don’t need to turn on a tap, you just place your hands in the the basin, and the water is turned on. When you pull your hands out of the basin, the water turns off, no contact with any part of the basin. While this does save water, they consume power.

    Anyway, if you handle money, coins/paper, it is covered with human waste byproducts. Also, there are many tribes in Africa who smear animal waste on themselves to build up their immune system.

    There is only one reason why I wash my hands, probably more than most, is that in my early employment years I used to be a machine operator. You used to have to wear a barrier cream on your hands to protect your skin from the “slurry” used to lubricate/cool the tool and job on the machine. Old habbits die hard I guess….

  97. “Anton says:
    August 31, 2010 at 7:25 pm”

    Strewth!! Out of interest, do you get ill often?

  98. I simply cannot believe that only one or two of these comments address the unstated male aversion to being close to other males with their flies unzipped. In my part of the country (Midwest) it is considered REALLY weird to not look straight ahead, almost like it is “toe tapping” in men’s public john’s cubicles.

    Here, the idea is to do your business and get zipped back up, and get the heck away from there. I worked with a guy who really read another guy the riot act for just turning his head a little bit. If you want to call it homophobia, okay – but I am telling you all it exists, and most guys here would be VERY uncomfortable with hanging around and washing their hands by another guy who is still whizzing. And look at those shelves in between – an invitation to even compound the situation.

    Nah, that would never go over here, no matter what kind of splash minimization the shape provided (which would be very easy; they have decades of desing on those kinds of things – it is already solved.)

    The ONLY way that would go over here would be to have a wide visual barrier between the urinals, where the guys can’t see each other at all.

    The REAL thing here is that this had to have been designed by some student in Modern Design 101 – and he probably got a C- or D+ grade on it. Too many fundamental flaws in it. Why is it here? For a laugh?

    [REPLY - Yes. For a laugh. ~ Evan]

  99. The point about seperating pee and grey water is important. You want some other water with the pee or other black water. The drainage systems are not designed to take 100% black water. Plus if you get the pee to the treatment plant, it is not clear you can treat black water by digestion without adding back grey water. Grey water and drinking water is not quite the same. There is often two systems but it is about keeping rain water away from water needing treating. There if is not done, rain flows can be so high that storage/treatment is exhausted and untreated sewage gets dumped into the sea before treament is complete.

  100. Patrick Davis says . . .

    “’Anton says:
    August 31, 2010 at 7:25 pm’”

    “Strewth!! Out of interest, do you get ill often?”

    Read my post above. The answer is no. I’ve had the flu only once in my life. I attribute much my good health to scubbing all the time, though it’s so normal for me, I don’t even think about it. But, I’m not scubbing to protect myself from germs; I’m doing it to avoid spreading germs to others. The fact that it appears to keep me healthy is, to me, a side benefit.

  101. “Anton says:
    September 1, 2010 at 1:03 am”

    Well, you would not want to come to Australia, and get stung by the many creatures which populate this country and it’s seas because a quick treatment “trick” is to use urine to ease the pain.

  102. Much complaining about guys not washing hands after peeing, as should be done because the genitals ain’t exactly germ free. Yet it seems there’s not much worry about washing the equipment beforehand “when the moment is right” and then it goes….

    Although if people were more worried about germs, that’d make for a great line for guys to use right after getting out of the shower: “Quick, let’s hurry up and use it while it’s still clean!”

  103. Patrick Davis says:
    “Here in Aus where I work a few years ago, all the washhand basins were replaced with “water saving” basins. So the tap spout has a flow restrictor, which is OK. These new basins are “automatic”, so that you don’t need to turn on a tap, you just place your hands in the the basin, and the water is turned on. When you pull your hands out of the basin, the water turns off, no contact with any part of the basin. While this does save water, they consume power.”

    Patrick – in the US, automatic faucets can’t be counted as conserving water on energy worksheets. Many people engage the sensor multiple times, resulting in more usage, and improper adjustment of the sensors results in operation due to random motion.

  104. “kadaka (KD Knoebel) says:
    September 1, 2010 at 5:28 am”

    Funny! I recall from the 80’s a TV show in the UK. A man was a time traveller, not sure of the total storyline or program name but this is the gist of it. He met up with a woman. I recall he brought back a news paper from the future, which had the lottery numbers on it. She won! They developed a relationship and before the “act” (Snoo snoo from Futurama) he had to use an “ultrasonic shower”. She, eventually, persuaded him to not bother with that step, and just get on with it. LOL

  105. “Djozar says:
    September 1, 2010 at 5:42 am”

    I hear what you are saying however, and unfortunately, this is nanny state, Green-lovin, Australia. Personally, I believe they actually waste water because of the delay in the water being shut off. But what would I know…I am not an environmentalist.

  106. Patrick Davis says …

    “Well, you would not want to come to Australia, and get stung by the many creatures which populate this country and it’s seas because a quick treatment “trick” is to use urine to ease the pain.”

    Next time my obnoxious wealthy aging hippie neighbors complain of mosquito bites, I’ll make a point of peeing on them. Not that they would notice . . . .

  107. ” Bad reflections makes it look like there’s a splash guard right where we’d really not want it.”

    It is designed to splash on your shoes and pants. Genius at work.

  108. “Anton says:
    September 1, 2010 at 8:07 am”

    In Aus, from mossies, you’d get Ross River fever, pee won’t help that itch. But if you were stung by, say, a Bluebottle jellyfish, then yes, I am sure even hippes would approciate it.

  109. Patrick Davis says . . .
    September 1, 2010 at 9:26 am

    “In Aus, from mossies, you’d get Ross River fever, pee won’t help that itch. But if you were stung by, say, a Bluebottle jellyfish, then yes, I am sure even hippes would approciate it.”

    We have mosquito-bite related diseases here too, though I’ve never been bitten by a mosquito in my entire life. Maybe I’m too antiseptic.

    My aging hippie neighbors probably pee on themselves regularly as part of some eco-worship ritual. For all their hipdom, they are the absolute worst pet-owners I’ve ever met. I’ve been rescuing and feeding their animals for years, and paying their vet bills too. And these people are very wealthy.

    I wonder if guys who pee on the sides of buildings are actually marking them as possessions, though they aren’t aware of it. If I pee on my hippie neighbors, will have to support them in their dotage?

  110. Anton>

    If you wait til their dotage, they’ll pee on themselves…

    I’m interested in your comments about the ‘s word’. I come from a background where the word for faeces is ‘shit’, not some euphemism. Although I understand that some people object to the word, I have never understood why – it’s from the same root as words like ‘scythe’, meaning something like ‘to separate from’. Would there be less of a mess if I pooed on your carpet instead of shat? :)

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