German Climate Adviser: "industrialized nations have already exceeded their [carbon] quotas" – Pay Up

Luboš Motl writes about the alarming opinion from the German Climate Adviser published in the Spiegel. If you’ve ever doubted that Climate Science has become politicized, this should end any doubt. – Anthony

By Luboš Motl

In his previous life, Hans Joachim Schellnhuber used to be a fairly good theoretical physicist. For example, he would solve the Schrödinger equation with an almost periodic potential in 1983. He has spent a year or so as a postdoc at KITP in Santa Barbara (1981-82).

But the times have changed. For a couple of years, he has been the director of the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research and the main German government’s climate protection adviser. What he has just said for Spiegel, in

Industrialized nations are facing CO2 insolvency (click),

is just breathtaking and it helps me to understand how crazy political movements such as the Nazis or communists could have so easily taken over a nation that is as sensible as Germany. A few rotten steps in the hierarchy is enough for a loon to get to the very top. He is proposing the creation of a CO2 budget for every person on the planet, regardless whether they live in Berlin or Beijing. Let us allow him to speak:

Humankind has to limit itself to emit only fixed amount of carbon into the atmosphere until 2050. […] Because the industrialized nations have already exceeded their quotas if you take into account past emissions. […] With the current output you see that Germany, the US and other industrialized nations have either already used up their permissible quota, or will do so within the next few years. […]

The industrialized nations are facing CO2 insolvency. This means that they have to notch up their efforts to reduce climate change, otherwise they will use up the CO2 budget actually designated to poorer countries and future generations.

Question: So industrialized nations would have to pay massive sums of money?

Yes. Up to €100 billion ($142 billion) annually. If the richest sixth of the world’s population were to pay this amount, each person would have to pay €100 per year. The West would give back part of the wealth it has taken from the South in the past centuries and be indebted to countries that are now amongst the poorest in the world. It would, however, have to be ensured that the poorer nations use the money for the proposes it is intended — namely to help them to develop a greener economy.

Of course, Schellnhuber is not the first hardcore nutcase of this kind who has been saying such things, pretending that he is oh so smart. Many of you may remember Richard Feynman’s popular book, Surely You’re Joking, Mr Feynman, where he also described a crazy “interdisciplinary” conference where a similar “thinker” has been proposing the same “reparations” paid to the poor countries, based on the same assumptions that Mr Schellnhuber has used.

In order for me to save some time, let me just copy Feynman’s entertaining description of the crazy conference he attended in the 1950s. The amount and basic types of pompous fools haven’t changed: they have just taken over many institutions that apparently include the German government:

There was a special dinner at some point, and the head of the theology place, a very nice, very Jewish man, gave a speech. It was a good speech, and he was a very good speaker, so while it sounds crazy now, when I’m telling about it, at that time his main idea sounded completely obvious and true. He talked about the big differences in the welfare of various countries, which cause jealousy, which leads to conflict, and now that we have atomic weapons, any war and we’re doomed, so therefore the right way out is to strive for peace by making sure there are no great differences from place to place, and since we have so much in the United States, we should give up nearly everything to the other countries until we’re all even. Everybody was listening to this, and we were all full of sacrificial feeling, and all thinking we ought to do this. But I came back to my senses on the way home.

The next day one of the guys in our group said, “I think that speech last night was so good that we should all endorse it, and it should be the summary of our conference.”

I started to say that the idea of distributing everything evenly is based on a theory that there’s only X amount of stuff in the world, that somehow we took it away from the poorer countries in the first place, and therefore we should give it back to them. But this theory doesn’t take into account the real reason for the differences between countries — that is, the development of new techniques for growing food, the development of machinery to grow food and to do other things, and the fact that all this machinery requires the concentration of capital. It isn’t the stuff, but the power to make the stuff, that is important. But I realize now that these people were not in science; they didn’t understand it. They didn’t understand technology; they didn’t understand their time.

The conference made me so nervous that a girl I knew in New York had to calm me down. “Look,” she said, “you’re shaking! You’ve gone absolutely nuts! Just take it easy, and don’t take it so seriously. Back away a minute and look at what it is.” So I thought about the conference, how crazy it was, and it wasn’t so bad. But if someone were to ask me to participate in something like that again, I’d shy away from it like mad — I mean zero! No! Absolutely not! And I still get invitations for this kind of thing today.

When it came time to evaluate the conference at the end, the others told how much they got out of it, how successful it was, and so on. When they asked me, I said, “This conference was worse than a Rorschach test: There’s a meaningless inkblot, and the others ask you what you think you see, but when you tell them, they start arguing with you!”

Even worse, at the end of the conference they were going to have another meeting, but this time the public would come, and the guy in charge of our group has the nerve to say that since we’ve worked out so much, there won’t be any time for public discussion, so we’ll just tell the public all the things we’ve worked out. My eyes bugged out: I didn’t think we had worked out a damn thing!

Finally, when we were discussing the question of whether we had developed a way of having a dialogue among people of different disciplines — our second basic “problem” — I said that I noticed something interesting. Each of us talked about what we thought the “ethics of equality” was, from our own point of view, without paying any attention to the other guy’s point of view. For example, the historian proposed that the way to understand ethical problems is to look historically at how they evolved and how they developed; the international lawyer suggested that the way to do it is to see how in fact people actually act in different situations and make their arrangements; the Jesuit priest was always referring to “the fragmentation of knowledge”; and I, as a scientist, proposed that we should isolate the problem in a way analogous to Galileo’s techniques for experiments; and so on. “So, in my opinion,” I said, “we had no dialogue at all. Instead, we had nothing but chaos!”

Of course I was attacked, from all around. “Don’t you think that order can come from chaos?”

“Uh, well, as a general principle, or…” I didn’t understand what to do with a question like “Can order come from chaos?” Yes, no, what of it?

There were a lot of fools at that conference — pompous fools — and pompous fools drive me up the wall. Ordinary fools are all right; you can talk to them, and try to help them out. But pompous fools — guys who are fools and are covering it all over and impressing people as to how wonderful they are with all this hocus pocus — THAT, I CANNOT STAND! An ordinary fool isn’t a faker; an honest fool is all right. But a dishonest fool is terrible! And that’s what I got at the conference, a bunch of pompous fools, and I got very upset. I’m not going to get upset like that again, so I won’t participate in interdisciplinary conferences any more.

Feynman’s book continues with a story involving the young rabbis whose main concern was whether electricity was fire.

I wonder how Feynman would feel if he had to be talking to not just a few nuts of this kind but e.g. to 2,500 similar nuts who would be moreover described by the media as good scientists, if not the best ones in the world. 😉

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rbateman
September 6, 2009 11:00 pm

Sorry to bring in a hard dose of reality, but the Globalists beat the Warmists to the piggy bank.
There isn’t a whole lot left. Pre-emptied.
Shipped off the wealth to offshore accounts and the not-so-free world.
The West is going to be hard pressed to rebuild shattered economies, let alone pay vast royalty sums to the underdeveloped world.
Have you tried Hu Jintao lately?

Johnny Honda
September 6, 2009 11:14 pm

Dudes, I read the website of the magazin “Der Spiegel” everday. You could fill a own blog with their ridicolous stories about climate change. It is a total propaganda newspaper concerning this topic. Schellnhuber and his colleague Rahmstorf are very busy in touting alarmism, they are in the newspaper regularly and they have their own blogs. The PIK is an institute only for propaganda, it is founded only for this purpose.
That’s why whole Germany is filled with this ugly windmills and solar panels. Literally billions of Euros are wasted with this.

Pkatt
September 6, 2009 11:17 pm

Can I be the first to tell this guy where he can stick his plan? Too harsh.. ok I will be mellow I will be mellow… 😀

RhudsonL
September 6, 2009 11:31 pm

Those darn windmills don’t support the United Way as well as not being a landscaped as a nuke plant.

crosspatch
September 6, 2009 11:38 pm

I wanted to post one word, but I couldn’t choose between “tool” and “fool”.

tallbloke
September 6, 2009 11:53 pm

I recall Anthony recently posted a link to a full page ad taken out in a German newspaper from 500 german scientists denouncing AGW as unscientific tripe.
The key passage in the opinion piece above is:
“It would, however, have to be ensured that the poorer nations use the money for the proposes it is intended — namely to help them to develop a greener economy.”
And of course it would have to be ensured that the ensurers weren’t taking bribes from the rulers of those countries to assure the UN that all was well…
Layers of beurocracy are never efficient, or honest. The best way to beat this nonsense is to stop paying the tax.

oakgeo
September 6, 2009 11:55 pm

This is western shame-of-affluence run amok. I guess I’m not surprised that shame seems to be a full fledged industry in Germany.

pinkisbrain
September 7, 2009 12:13 am

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2851890401854789717#
look at this nobelprize winner meeting.
schellnhubers worst day in clima propaganda…

steven mosher
September 7, 2009 12:14 am

http://prola.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v89/i2/e028501
looks like an interesting piece

September 7, 2009 12:17 am

The absurdity of the “everyone must have the same” argument is illustrated by the essential follow-up question: “what then?”
For a nanosecond on one glorious day everyone will have the same. No one can tell how much or how little everyone will have, although we can be sure that those who organise it will be protected from all deprivation. But what then?
I know what I’d do with my share. I’d make sure a pack of cards was included in my allotment of goodies and I’d start a game of poker. Not with other serious poker players, but with people who have never played but now think they are rich because they have the same as Bill Gates. I’d play Omaha High-Low to make it really difficult for the newcomers. I can’t guarantee it but I’d be pretty sure that by the end of the evening I’d have more than Bill Gates and they’d have less. But what then?
And what then for those who grow extra vegetables in their gardens and sell them to their neighbours who prefer not to bother? And what then for someone who makes a batch of iced lemonade on a hot day and sells it to weary passers-by? And what then for every field of commerce the world has ever known?
How are things to stay equal for longer than the nanosecond at which the World Government decrees what everyone shall have? It is impossible without the outlawing and suppression of individual enterprise. That would be to fight against an essential part of human nature. Indeed, the point goes further. The very process recognises that human enterprise has allowed some to have more than others. Why do these cretins believe that the process that resulted in inequality will not be repeated? After all that process was not a gift from government that can be withdrawn just as it was granted. It was the result of lots of little people doing what came naturally and making the most of their circumstances.
There is only one way for the poor countries to catch up. It is for them to play the same game on a level playing field. Provide things of a quality and at a price that people will buy and you move up. It requires us to remove all trade barriers and let those countries that have made the effort show what they can do. If they can do it, we must up our game to compete. If they can’t, they won’t sell anything and will have to up their game.
Yes, there is a potential down side. If we can’t up our game we suffer. But history shows that we can and always have been able to up our game. The same is now being seen particularly in India but also in some African countries. For example, Kenya’s vegetable growers produce vast amounts for the western market. No hand-outs there, they produce stuff and we buy it because it’s not in season here. A win-win situation.
That won’t be allowed under the new order. No one can advance. No one can become richer unless everyone becomes richer. And how is that meant to happen? It’s simple, it can’t happen. The greatest problem with the re-distributionists is that they have no credible answer to: “what then?” If true to their so-called principles their answer must be that everything is frozen in time or that any profit anyone makes must immediately be taken from them and distributed equally. It is utterly cretinous unless you believe everyone living in squalor would be a better world than some living in comfort and the rest striving to do likewise. I don’t.

Keith G
September 7, 2009 12:18 am

I have always thought that Feynman was a sensible fellow – a thought that is only enhanced by reading this snippet from his book.

Lex
September 7, 2009 12:21 am

I don’t think Germans will appreciate this phrase:
“it helps me to understand how crazy political movements such as the Nazis or communists could have so easily taken over a nation that is as sensible as Germany”
On the other hand I think a lot of people do forget to reward intellectual property and efficiency (in all of its kinds). It is very difficult to evaluate these items.
In the German intellectual scene it is very difficult to be sceptical overall

Remmitt
September 7, 2009 12:29 am

The other day I clicked on one of the adverts here and ended on this site: http://en.cop15.dk/
Have you had a look at what articles and blog postings are made here? Some by ministers of countries, e.g.: http://en.cop15.dk/blogs/view+blog?blogid=2008
I liked the comments exchange on this one: http://en.cop15.dk/blogs/view+blog?blogid=1909
This one just plain ridiculous: “Climate Change enhances global Poverty and Inequity”
http://en.cop15.dk/blogs/view+blog?blogid=1933

Roddy Baird
September 7, 2009 12:31 am

Ich bin sprachlos… if I remember my high school German. This is actually treason from the point of view of the human race. I’m afraid to say that this “green” angle is sounding suspiciously like communism. After all, communism, through its necessary destruction of the wealth creating potential of an economy, would drastically reduce the human population and C02 output and thereby save the polar bears (sarcasm). It is amazing to me that such an idiotic idea continues to appeal to so many. At any rate, the GFC is only just getting started and the upcoming economic chaos as the bailouts annihilate the US dollar and world trade collapses will be a compelling issue so I doubt these nutjobs will have a willing audience for much longer. Not that this is a good thing, really, simply the eclipsing of a non issue by the most serious to face mankind for a generation.

DennisA
September 7, 2009 12:40 am

Lubos gets it slightly wrong, Schellnhuber has been at Potsdam longer than a couple of years: http://www.pik-potsdam.de/institute/director/cv
1991 Founding Director of the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research (PIK); since 1993 Director of PIK and Professor for Theoretical Physics at the University of Potsdam.
2001-2005 additional engagement as Research Director of the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research and Professor at the Environmental Sciences School of the University of East Anglia in Norwich (UK). Distinguished Science Advisor for the Tyndall Centre since 2005.
Carbon cards were first proposed in 2004 by the Tyndall Centre of which Schellnhuber’s links are shown above.
“Carbon Rationing to save the planet”, January 2004: http://www.tyndall.ac.uk/media/press_releases/pr_30.pdf
Scientists at UMIST’s Tyndall Centre have devised a system to combat climate change giving each and every adult in the country an equal greenhouse gas ‘allowance’.
Unlike a carbon tax system, where people emit as much carbon dioxide as the amount of fuel plus carbon tax they can afford, each adult would be given a smart card that only allows them to use a certain amount of carbon ‘units’.
Every year the nation’s total number of units would decrease, thus reducing greenhouse gases.
Dr Kevin Anderson, of the Tyndall Centre for Climate Change Research at UMIST, said: “This is a rationing system that should appeal to the fair minded British public to reduce greenhouse gases.
Dr Anderson explained: “The Domestic Tradable Quotas scheme is designed to meet a legally binding national carbon emissions reduction target. This target is divided into annual carbon budgets that would then be reduced year on year, up to and including the year by which the UK must have achieved
its emission reduction target.
“Each budget is divided into carbon units with, for example, one carbon unit representing 1kg of carbon dioxide. A proportion of these units would be allocated by government, free and on a per capita basis, to each adult citizen. The remaining units would be allocated to firms and organisations through
a government-regulated auction.”
He added: “All fuels and electricity would be assigned a carbon rating based on the quantity of greenhouse gases they emit. When people or companies purchase fuel or electricity, they surrender the number of carbon units corresponding to their purchase back to the government via the retailer and
primary supplier.
“Central to the DTQs scheme is a computer database which holds the carbon unit account for all citizens and companies. All transactions are carried out electronically. For example, a customer buying petrol would have a smart card swiped by the petrol station attendant transferring the carbon units
corresponding to their purchase back to the government.”
Dr Anderson said the system was the best and fairest way of reducing greenhouse gases: “It is an equitable system. It is not based solely on people’s ability and willingness to pay, but an explicit allocation of an equal per capita basis. Of course some people may not use all of their allocation, in
which case, individuals could trade left over units, thereby creating a market in carbon units.
It gives a new meaning to population control….
Potsdam of course also provides a base for Greenpeace in Europe.
http://forum.junkscience.com/index.php?topic=288.0

F Rasmin
September 7, 2009 12:41 am

All of those windmills etc are just Germanys sack cloth and ashes for the second world war.

September 7, 2009 12:44 am

This bloke is insane. Is he seriously considering we hand over billions to nutjobs like Robert Mugabe, Kim Jong-il, Omar al-Bashir or Than Shwe?

Manfred
September 7, 2009 12:52 am

and I wondered why schellnhuber or his ombudsman at pik didn’t reproach ramstorf for his – even for climate science standards – remarkably bad science and dirty tricks…

Phillip Bratby
September 7, 2009 12:57 am

I still go back and read Feynmann’s lectures after all these years. Greatest physicist of the second half of the 20th century. If only he were around today.

September 7, 2009 1:07 am

My sister lives in Germany and news are still full about “CO-zwei” doom. Some cities even canceled lights on Christmas tree in city centers in order to reduce “CO-zwei”.
I have read two book from Feynmann (one of them about investigation of Challenger crash) and he was a truly unique person. Pity we do not have such world-known scientist today, I am sure he would lead the skeptics; he was the type who would not care about politicians at all.

Dodgy Geezer
September 7, 2009 1:12 am

I like the juxtaposition of the US fires and the Carbon Budget stories. Let us say we have sorted out the bureaucracy that lets us allocate a carbon allowance to everyone in the world. And then another Australian bush fire happens, or a volcano in Iceland pumps out lots of CO2.
Whose budget does it come out of? Do we charge the Aussies?

Michael
September 7, 2009 1:20 am

I’ve read the first few lines of the blog and I’m appalled.
To compare our government’s lamentable stance on climate change with our nazi past is stupid beyond belief.
That of course doesn’t excuse Schellnhuber’s mindless ramblings. As far as environmental issues are concerned the German government is fairly crazy.

Reply to  Michael
September 7, 2009 2:31 am

Michael.
I agree with you, comparison to Nazis are too easily bantered about. In this context I believe Lubos was attempting to demonstrate examples of mob mass delusion/hysteria, but I certainly would agree that alternate examples would be preferable.

Michael
September 7, 2009 1:21 am

Cultural hatred is cheap to talk about and print. When it comes time to pay for it with reparations that’s when ordinary people will stop nodding their heads in general agreement with claptrap.
Have a bit of faith in the BS meter of ordinary folk.
Cheers
Michael

September 7, 2009 1:21 am

Everyone please read the post by DennisA (00:40:13) :
above as it makes exactly the same point as I was going to.
The UK sees itself as a world leader in carbon reduction and is steadily putting the mechanism of a carbon card in place (I saw a mock up of one) I posted extensively on this over a year ago
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1021983/Every-adult-Britain-forced-carry-carbon-ration-cards-say-MPs.html
It is the policy of a govt dominated Parliamentary environment committee and was said to be ‘ahead of its time’, however the mechansim for it is being steadily created.
http://p10.hostingprod.com/@spyblog.org.uk/blog/2008/05/the-guardian-government-scraps-carbon-card-scheme-for-fear-of-ridicule.html
Here are lots more comments on the story.
http://www.powerswitch.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7959
The govt recently announced they were planning to ask every person in the UK to register their overseas movements in advance (hotel, dates, destination, etc) ostensibly as a measure against the ‘war on terror’ but in reality so they can check our carbon usage and tax us accordingly.
Two years ago the muich hated HIP ( a document that has to be filled in each time a home is sold) was brought in, amongst which are measures to ensure every home has an energy rating. This will be used for taxation purposes and in addition there have been recent suggestions that private homes will not be allowed to be sold until an appropriate energy rating is gained.
A further tax was put on petrol last week in the name of green ness and the air pasenger duty increased in the same name. We already pay a substantial levy on our energy bills to fund renewables.
A carbon card will bring all these disparate items (and many more) neatly into one easy to monitor format in the name of ‘fairness’ ie rationing.
This is a very unpopular govt so that may delay implementation, although the hysteria about AGW is mounting ahead of the Copenhagen summit and who knows what might be brought in whilst polar bears are being shown dying on our tv screens of human induced warming?
The Conservative opposition try to be even greener than the govt so will undoubtedly press on with some measures, but are greater champions of personal freedom and may stop short of a carbon card, but I wouldn’t bet against it in the medium term of say five years.
Complete madness, coming to a govt near you shortly.
Tonyb

Michael
September 7, 2009 1:25 am

Oops, where’s my comment gone?
Anyway, Schellnhuber seems to be one of those lunatics which advise our government on climate change. Ecologism at is worst.
But one thing in Motl’s blog that I strongly object to is his rather dumb comparism of Schellnhuber’s mindless ramblings to the rise of the Nazis.

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