NYC Turns Back to Gas Buses After Finding Out the Hard Way That the Electric Versions Have Big Problems

From NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT

By Paul Homewood

That low carbon bus crap stuff isn’t only failing in Aberdeen!

From Western Journal:

western journal nyc electric buses

New York City is pretty much broke. Mayor Zohran Mamdani may be crowing about the fact that he’s balanced the city’s budget, but that’s mostly because lawmakers in Albany bailed him out. There are also looming tax increases driving people out of the city and gutting future revenue, so that’s an issue.

In short, now isn’t the time that NYC needs to be making a capital outlay on something that should have been predicted long ago. But apparently, a bunch of electric buses that Gotham bought in order to go zero emissions? Yeah, it turns out that, in a development that could have been predicted by anyone who’s followed EV developments, the city’s transit authority is going to have to acquire 650 new buses that run on compressed natural gas because the EV buses won’t work.

From The City Reporter, Sept. 10:

The MTA committed nearly a decade ago to having its entire fleet of close to 6,000 buses be emissions-free by 2040, but officials on Thursday said the transportation authority is instead seeking proposals from manufacturers to produce low-emissions alternatives to diesel.

Officials tied the release of a request for proposals to the “Next Stop: Fast Buses, Better Service” plan unveiled in July by Gov. Kathy Hochul and Mayor Zohran Mamdani, as the head of the MTA has repeatedly acknowledged that electric-bus technology is “still immature.”

“The governor and the mayor have been clear: better bus service can’t wait,” said Janno Lieber, the transportation authority’s chairperson and chief executive. “So, while the electric bus industry continues to mature, MTA is moving forward with CNGs to further improve service for the millions of New Yorkers who ride MTA buses every day.”

Yes, like any good socialist, Zohran Mamdani wants zero-emission vehicles. However, when you’ve based much of your image on getting the buses running on time and in order, spending absurd amounts of money on articulated EV buses that don’t work as much as they should is a major problem. And when you consider the whole project of replacing the city’s entire bus fleet with EVs is estimated to cost $12 billion and use enough electricity to light 200,000 houses to accomplish, as The City Reporter noted, that becomes a double whammy.

And the city is turning back to compressed natural gas, purchasing the 650 new CNG-powered vehicles to replace 620 CNG-powered vehicles it purchased in 2013.

The City Reporter is describing the move as “part of the MTA’s largest single upgrade to its fleet since 2013.” This is being counted as a win by the people who should have known better in the first place.

“Modern, reliable buses can spend more time on the road and less time in the shop than the old vehicles they will replace, a win for riders who depend on frequent, reliable service to get around,” Democrat New York Gov. Kathy Hochul said in a statement, according to The City Reporter.

Anyone with sense could have told them this years ago, but why learn from logic when you can get knocked around by experience?

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108 Comments
willybamboo
September 21, 2026 6:13 am

And all the bus mechanics will tell you that CNG buses are crap compared to diesel. Engine life is the big difference. Not even half the miles in service. Speaking of half the miles, not even half the miles between fueling either. Almost all express buses still run on diesel.

Reply to  willybamboo
September 21, 2026 6:50 am

Diesel acts as a lubricant/coolant to the valves and valve guides which CNG does not. Hence why on CNG conversions for cars, which were a thing in the UK a few years back, you added an lube injection system to keep the top end happy.

Scarecrow Repair
Reply to  willybamboo
September 21, 2026 8:00 am

The company that delivers propane to my house had a propane-powered truck. The driver said it seemed like a natural buy for a propane company, especially being cheaper, but it turned out to be gutless enough that it could only make it up the hill to my house at the end of its route, and they had to replace it at half the lifetime of the other delivery trucks (I do not remember now if they were diesel or gasoline, only that they weren’t propane).

Erik Magnuson
Reply to  Scarecrow Repair
September 21, 2026 8:39 am

Back in 1980, truck engines running on propane lasted longer than the same engines running on gasoline. Spark plugs and lube oil were also much cleaner.

roywspencer
Reply to  Erik Magnuson
September 21, 2026 8:45 am

Maybe before fuel injection? Accurate metering of fuel has greatly increased the life of gasoline engines due to less washing of lubricant off of cylinder walls and less contamination of oil.

Erik Magnuson
Reply to  roywspencer
September 21, 2026 12:43 pm

This was definitely back in the days of carburetors and leaded gasoline. The stated advantage of propane at that time was due to it being “dry”when entering the cylinder. Other advantages were simpler chemistry and higher performance numbers (octane rating).

Large stationary mixture engines (e.g. locomotive sized) are almost always fueled with natural gas.

Scarecrow Repair
Reply to  Erik Magnuson
September 21, 2026 9:33 am

This was from 2005 to 2015 or so, more or less.

Scarecrow Repair
Reply to  Scarecrow Repair
September 21, 2026 10:38 am

Downvoted, for saying when something happened to me? Someone needs to take a break.

Reply to  Scarecrow Repair
September 21, 2026 11:00 am

comment image

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
September 21, 2026 12:17 pm

That’s all you have to say?

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
September 21, 2026 12:42 pm

Sicko trollo

John Endicott
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
September 22, 2026 11:40 am

Well, you are certainly an expert on getting excessively downvoted.

Sweet Old Bob
September 21, 2026 6:46 am

That nasty bitch, REALITY, bites HARD !
😉

September 21, 2026 6:59 am

In Naptown Numbers‘ “Reduce Carbon-Dioxide Emissions” we found that even if you accept the “social cost of carbon” the emissions-avoidance benefit usually isn’t worth the cost.

Bus-Cost
Bruce Cobb
September 21, 2026 7:09 am

Wow, that’s amazing. I mean who, I say WHO could possibly have predicted such a thing?

Mandobob
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
September 21, 2026 8:39 am

You left off the “sarc on” 🙂

Dr. Bob
September 21, 2026 7:14 am

I worked with California Energy Commission on CNG busses and Renewable Diesel Buses (clean diesel fuel). The RNG busses were a big problem as they could not be stored or serviced unless the building was Class 1 Div 1 explosion proof. Explosion Proof Equipment | Class I Div 1 & 2 Guide (2026) | Intrinsically Safe Store You simply cannot store NG cylinders in a closed space without making it intrinsically safe. This adds considerable expense to any municipal bus operation.

Plus, NG busses require more maintenance than diesel busses and the actual emissions are no better now that diesel buses (and all on-highway diesel vehicles) have exhaust cats and traps. CEC showed that modern diesel buses have exhaust output that is cleaner than ambient air in large cities. So, no net benefit for using NG. And no reduction in GHG emissions either as there simply isn’t enough Renewable NG for NYC while Renewable Diesel is readily available and domestically produced.

Typical of politicians. Address a perceived problem with solutions that have no impact on the problem, perceived or real.

Reply to  Dr. Bob
September 21, 2026 7:33 am

Missing: today’s higher (outrageous?) cost of diesel per bus-mile compared to that of CNG per bus-mile.

Mr.
Reply to  ToldYouSo
September 21, 2026 7:55 am

So what are the numbers that demonstrate a significant difference in costs?

Reply to  Mr.
September 21, 2026 8:46 am

I generally refrain from being anyone’s lap dog, but in this case I’ve made an exception since the answer is easily obtained by anyone that can access the Web and knows how to use a search engine.

Here is Google’s AI bot answer:

“At today’s market prices, using Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) reduces a bus’s fuel cost per mile by roughly 35% to 40% compared to using diesel at $6.50 per gallon.”

Took me about 30 seconds to type out the question and get the above answer.

Mr.
Reply to  ToldYouSo
September 21, 2026 9:06 am

Well, I expected no less.
Since you’re on here so often “Telling Us So”.

And the 30 seconds you used up on my query was 30 seconds not spent on “Telling Someone Else So”.

So that’s my good Samaritan deed for the day.
(No need to thank me – it was beneficial to someone else, not me 🙂 )

Reply to  Mr.
September 21, 2026 12:03 pm

Your pen name is “Mr.” and your lecturing me on my pen name???

ROTFLMAO!

You need to look up—more importantly, understand—the meaning of “good Samaritan”.

Mr.
Reply to  ToldYouSo
September 21, 2026 12:43 pm

you’re

Reply to  Mr.
September 21, 2026 6:05 pm

“No need to thank me – it was beneficial to someone else, not me”

So, you readily admit that you really weren’t seeking an answer to your question in the first place . . . just trolling, as TROLLS do.

I’ll keep that in mind going forward.

Mr.
Reply to  ToldYouSo
September 21, 2026 6:39 pm

Yes, you “told me so”.
So consider me now as a viable alternative to Google AI bot, ok?
🙂

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Mr.
September 22, 2026 9:07 am

Your application of catnip worked. 🙂

Reply to  ToldYouSo
September 21, 2026 9:31 am

High price for diesel won’t last. Sooner or late Russia and Iran will be allowed to produce as much a they want- along with Venezuela. Prices for all petroleum products will crash.

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
September 21, 2026 11:03 am

Venezuela will take years.
But yes, prices will crash – mainly due to demand destruction.

SxyxS
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
September 21, 2026 12:41 pm

For the love of god I can not understand how anyone can downvote this.

Except for the possibility that prices may remain high after demand destruction , as the production facilities in the near east may all be destroyed – the prediction is absolutely accurate if we leave speculations aside.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  SxyxS
September 21, 2026 6:21 pm

Which god, the Jewish god?

Reply to  Jeff Alberts
September 25, 2026 7:27 am

It looks like a typo to me, as in: “For the love of god gold, I cannot understand how . . .”

Reply to  SxyxS
September 22, 2026 2:36 am

Those production facilities get rebuilt quickly. Some of the refineries that Ukraine has hit, the Russians restored quickly. It amazes me since refineries look extremely complicated. I would think it would take years- but it doesn’t.

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
September 22, 2026 2:34 am

I guess you have no concept that when supply rises, and it will, that prices will fall. Probably due to your commy view of economics- that it should all be planned- so no supply and demand governing prices. And, demand for energy is inelastic, it doesn’t drop- people just pay more. I suggest take economics 101. 🙂

Curious George
Reply to  Dr. Bob
September 21, 2026 7:36 am

A Typo in the second sentence – CNG misspelled as RNG.

Scarecrow Repair
Reply to  Curious George
September 21, 2026 8:04 am

Might not be — I saw that too, but he later mentions “Renewable NG”.

And no reduction in GHG emissions either as there simply isn’t enough Renewable NG for NYC while Renewable Diesel is readily available and domestically produced.

Scarecrow Repair
Reply to  Scarecrow Repair
September 21, 2026 10:39 am

Man, the downvoter of doom is having a bad day today.

Reply to  Scarecrow Repair
September 21, 2026 1:52 pm

What is renewable Diesel?

Gregg Eshelman
Reply to  Harold Pierce
September 22, 2026 3:35 am

Biodiesel. Renewable Natural Gas would be methane from composting and fermenting organic crop waste and livestock and human poo.

Reply to  Harold Pierce
September 22, 2026 9:46 pm

What is Renewable Natural Gas?

claysanborn
Reply to  Dr. Bob
September 21, 2026 10:17 am

Dr. Bob, with your “Typical of politicians.”, summary, I believe you very well highlighted the bigger problem, especially among all the “blue” states – when states’ politicians and their approving constituents can’t even define, describe. or recognize women’s God-given attributes, it’s a clue to the rest of the world, that while they are at least morally useless, they are at least socially dangerous too.
From Fox News (you can logically substitute the EV bus issue into the following comic):
comment image?ve=1&tl=1

September 21, 2026 7:15 am

While battery-electric bus (BEB) designs and performance are slowly improving, especially in cold higher latitudes, success is partly dependent on addition of diesel powered heaters installed in the buses. In optimum temperatures (around 55 to 60°F ), BEBs have far less range on an overnight charge compared to diesel and CNG buses. As temperatures plummet, so does the BEB range. In winter operations, BEBs require costly, indoor storage and charging infrastructure, supplemental diesel heating, mid route supplemental charging, and back up buses for frequently missed routes. BEBs also cost far more per unit than diesel or CNG buses. So why do people keep buying them for any reason beyond trial purposes?

Despite federal state and politically left cleaning climate activist city policies, BEBs still constitute an insignificant percentage of the transit bus fleet. They are even far less common in school bus and non-city transit bus fleets. In addition to the city and state politically motivated promotion of BEBs, the principal reason that electric bus buses are becoming a significant share of new bus orders (about 20%) is state and federal grant money. Were it not for massive government underwriting, the BEB market would collapse.

barryjo
Reply to  pflashgordon
September 21, 2026 8:01 am

Similar to the wind turbine subsidy scam.

MarkW
Reply to  pflashgordon
September 21, 2026 9:45 am

Having the market collapse when the subsidies run out seems to be the pattern for all electric vehicles. Excluding golf carts which, to the best of my knowledge, were never subsidized.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  MarkW
September 22, 2026 9:12 am

Early electric golf carts, ca, 1980, ran on lead acid car batteries.

rogercaiazza
Reply to  pflashgordon
September 21, 2026 11:18 am

Niagara Frontier Transit Authority (Buffalo NY) has a fleet of electric buses. They have a unique situation that addresses some of the cold weather issues you list. BUT, they had to get new batteries for all the buses after several years because the road salt ate the first set of batteries. They were under warranty so NFTA did not have to eat that cost.

Beta Blocker
Reply to  rogercaiazza
September 21, 2026 4:53 pm

Roger, I have a request to make of you … On September 14th, you posted this article on your blog:

Terra Praxis Says Repower New York with Nuclear — I Mostly Agree (09/14/2026)

Rod Adams of Atomic Insights conducted a half-hour interview with Doreen Harris on September 18th concerning New York state government’s embrace of nuclear:

Atomic Show #354 – Doreen Harris, President and CEO NYSERDA (New York State Energy Research and Development Authority)

Could you listen to this interview, and read Rod Adam’s introduction to it, and then post your opinions on your blog as to what it is you’ve heard and read.

Are Doreen Harris and the Hochul Administration just blowing smoke to gain the votes of pro-nuclear upstate New Yorkers?

I will remark further I am personally skeptical that anything will happen with new-build nuclear in New York state unless and until NYS state government begins directly funding new reactors with taxpayer money. 

Reply to  Beta Blocker
September 21, 2026 6:26 pm

Stay tuned

Beta Blocker
Reply to  rogercaiazza
September 24, 2026 2:18 pm

Very good, Roger. Your article covered all the topics I wanted covered, and more. It deserves being posted here on WUWT for further discussion.

We buy nuclear for purposes of energy reliability and security, not because it is the cheapest means of generating electricity.

So the question becomes, how much do we value energy reliability and security, how much should we be willing to pay for it, and how will we get there from here if we decide nuclear gives us what we want at a price we are willing to pay?

And will the money we spend on nuclear actually deliver that energy reliability and security?

Unless we invest the money needed to rebuild the American nuclear industrial base to a point where it can deliver QA-compliant systems and components on cost and on schedule, it will not be possible to use nuclear as the backstop you describe in your latest article.

Erik Magnuson
Reply to  pflashgordon
September 21, 2026 12:50 pm

Hybrid buses would make more sense than straight BEB’s as the waste heat from the engine can be used for heating the interior. Hybrid propulsion would likely reduce harmful emissions (HC, NOx and particulates) as the engine could be running at constant power.

mleskovarsocalrrcom
September 21, 2026 7:24 am

When I was a kid I sold newspapers while standing in the street loading dock for the electric trolleys in Los Angeles. Some areas had electric busses. Both are gone now because diesel is more efficient and doesn’t require the overhead transmission lines that limit the bus/trolley course, sometimes jumped track, and filled the overhead with supporting and live wires. So now it’s back to the future but without the previous drawbacks only to introduce new ones that hamper reliability. More unintended consequences from the AGW crowd.

NotChickenLittle
September 21, 2026 7:27 am

As Ayn Rand wrote, you can ignore reality but you can’t ignore the consequences of ignoring reality…

Leftists persist living in a fantasy world even when their noses are rubbed in reality over and over again. All of us taxpayers suffer because of their delusions.

MarkW
Reply to  NotChickenLittle
September 21, 2026 9:47 am

The left wing mantra seems to be “This time it’s going to work.”

1saveenergy
Reply to  MarkW
September 21, 2026 12:33 pm

Not just a left-wing mantra; it’s a politician’s mantra …
How many times has Trump said …
The Iran war was going well and that there was “practically nothing left to target.” 
“They have nothing left to fight with.”
The Straits of Hormuz will be open soon, “**literally tomorrow**.”

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  1saveenergy
September 22, 2026 9:19 am

Do you really think Trump would offer Iran military intelligence while in conflict.
Do you really think Trump would not try to rattle their respective cages?

Trump understands the Stock Market is a confidence game.
To counter all the negative media speculations, he has to provide counter claims.

That is not the same as saying, “This time it’s going to work.”

That said, I do agree President Trump needs to be more statesmanlike in many of his pronouncements. However, he was elected because he is disruptive.

George Thompson
Reply to  Sparta Nova 4
September 22, 2026 1:12 pm

Sometimes ya just gotta kick the table over…and a .44 beats 4 of a kind. Both are applicable here.

oeman50
Reply to  MarkW
September 22, 2026 4:34 am

Or is it “hold my beer?”

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  MarkW
September 22, 2026 9:19 am

Reminds me of one definition of insanity….

J Boles
September 21, 2026 7:36 am

I just KNEW that the e-bus house of cards would fall down, after all that expensive virtue signaling. Liberals just LOVE to piss away other peoples money.

oeman50
Reply to  J Boles
September 22, 2026 4:35 am

As I am fond of saying, “There’s nothing too unimportant to spend someone else’s money on it.”

ResourceGuy
September 21, 2026 8:08 am

How much did they pay consultants to come up with “still immature” to maneuver around the failure? It takes a village you know.

George Thompson
Reply to  ResourceGuy
September 21, 2026 8:50 am

Every village has an idiot-or more-and at least one leftist or Dem grifter. Just ask Hillary.

DipChip
Reply to  George Thompson
September 21, 2026 11:20 am

And all of them seem to get into politics.

Reply to  DipChip
September 22, 2026 2:30 pm

What else are they going to do to make a living? They can’t even teach teachers.

SxyxS
Reply to  George Thompson
September 21, 2026 12:44 pm

A lefty village has at best one who is not an idiot.

ResourceGuy
September 21, 2026 8:16 am

So all the other cities in CA, CO, and other greenwasher municipalities are using “still immature” buses.

Reply to  ResourceGuy
September 21, 2026 10:22 am

Electric busses already dominate new sales in china and europe. The technology is far from “immature”.

MarkW
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
September 21, 2026 11:05 am

They why don’t they work?

Reply to  MarkW
September 21, 2026 11:14 am

Sad, isn’t it? The whole public transport system in chinese cities broke down years ago. Nobody told them yet, though.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
September 22, 2026 9:26 am

They know. Posted above.

DipChip
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
September 21, 2026 11:26 am

You are correct if you base that on what they say and consider the huge subsidies.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
September 22, 2026 9:22 am

Oh goodie!
I needed a good laugh.

The European buses are predominantly Chinese.
Just because a lot of them are sold does not define maturity.

From various Chinese reports:

Electric bus operations in China and Chinese-manufactured fleets abroad face well-documented operational hurdles, including lower availability rates, reduced daily mileage, and frequent mechanical or battery breakdowns during rapid scaling.

Rapid Deployment Pressures: Accelerated delivery cycles across various provincial regions can dilute maintenance standardization and technical support quality.

Technical and Safety Defects: Overseas deployments of Chinese-manufactured electric buses (such as those imported for specific transit events in international markets) have occasionally encountered severe component or software defects that complicate cost recovery and operations.

mleskovarsocalrrcom
September 21, 2026 9:31 am

By definition Gore is the epitome of a useful idiot.

SxyxS
Reply to  mleskovarsocalrrcom
September 21, 2026 12:50 pm

Someone who made 230 mio dollar out of the climate scam is just as little of an idiot
as someone who who went bancrupt 6 times and rebounced every time into the superrich class.

Only idiots would call such people idiots, but they’ll never know they are the idiots because they are idiots.

Never confuse a traitor and conartist for an idiot.

MarkW
September 21, 2026 9:38 am

The 620 buses bought in 2013 need replacing already?
I know that the life of a big city bus is rough, but only 13 years?

Reply to  MarkW
September 21, 2026 10:53 am

13 years is quite a good age for a city bus if you can afford replacement. Trams last around 30 to 40 years – the high up-front costs are their main problem.

Idle Eric
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
September 22, 2026 12:23 am

3 years is a good age “if you can afford replacement”, that doesn’t make them good value for money.

September 21, 2026 10:20 am

In Europe and china electric city busses already dominate new sales.

MarkW
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
September 21, 2026 11:06 am

Governments, spending other people’s money, don’t care how much money they end up wasting.

Reply to  MarkW
September 21, 2026 11:10 am

Electric busses have higher purchase but lower operational and lifetime cost. It’s money better spend.

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
September 21, 2026 12:21 pm

What happens to the range in cold weather, sepecially when the heating is on?

Tom Johnson
Reply to  Graemethecat
September 22, 2026 4:39 am

It seems that there is no distinction being made between battery electric and electric via overhead power. I suspect that the long life ones are the ones that are not not using batteries. That, of course limits their flexibility.

ResourceGuy
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
September 21, 2026 3:49 pm

Better tell NYC that trolls like you know better than their actual operating experience in fleet operations and city government accounting control.

MarkW
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
September 21, 2026 4:17 pm

That’s only true if you ignore the cost of frequently replacing the batteries and having to buy extra buses to cover the lower range from the over sized golf carts.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
September 22, 2026 9:28 am

Ah, now for the repetition of propaganda repetition.

We are laughing at your idiocies.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
September 22, 2026 9:28 am

Ah, now for the propaganda repetition.

We are laughing at your idiocies.

Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
September 22, 2026 9:54 pm

Battery or overhead wires?

Sonicsuns
September 21, 2026 11:58 am

There are also looming tax increases driving people out of the city and gutting future revenue

The link under “driving people out of the city” does not mention anyone being driven out of the city. It only mentions people complaining about the new tax, not actually leaving because of it.

New York’s population was at 8.8 million in 2020, dropping to 8.4 million in 2022 and recovering partially to 8.5 in 2025. Mamdani took office in 2026 and we don’t have good figures for 2026 yet.

https://s-media.nyc.gov/agencies/dcp/assets/files/pdf/data-tools/population/population-estimates/new-york-city-population-estimates-and-trends-march-2026.pdf

Idle Eric
Reply to  Sonicsuns
September 22, 2026 12:28 am

Raw population numbers aren’t a terribly useful indicator when discussing the effect of tax increases, if high income professionals are leaving, or not coming in the first place, and they’re being replaced by burger-flippers or similar, that will also gut future tax revenue, even if the overall population remains static.

Reply to  Idle Eric
September 22, 2026 1:10 am

You have any source for your claim?

MarkW
Reply to  MyUsernameReloaded
September 22, 2026 7:44 am

Tax roles showing a substantial drop in the number of high income tax payers.

Edward Katz
September 21, 2026 2:26 pm

It seems to me that Quebec abandoned electric school buses a few years back when it found they were particularly unreliable in cold weather. This was after the province squandered a few millions of taxpayer dollars trying to save the planet. It has turned out that reliable diesels do the job better without there being any pretense of combating climate change.

Reply to  Edward Katz
September 21, 2026 7:04 pm

I know this is going to be disappointing for many of you people who are skeptical about scientific progress, but China has already started using Sodium-ion batteries for electric buses. Here are some relevant points.

“While the vast majority of China’s massive electric bus network still relies on Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) batteries, the country is leading the global expansion of sodium-ion technology into heavier transport, fleets, and logistics.”

“Instead of standard city transit buses, Chinese manufacturers are prioritizing sodium-ion batteries for severe-environment commercial vehicles, delivery fleets, and heavy equipment.”

“The primary reason transport authorities are integrating sodium-ion technology into fleet planning is its exceptional low-temperature performance.”
“Newer sodium-ion packs can retain up to 90% of their usable capacity at -40°C. This makes them highly competitive for school buses, public transport, and commercial logistics operating in northern Chinese provinces like Heilongjiang and Jilin.”

Reply to  Vincent
September 21, 2026 8:10 pm

I think it is still reasonable to be skeptical about these buses. Yes sodium-ion batteries provide better cold weather tolerance, but even the highest density versions from CATL or BYD are still under 200wh/kg. I would imagine to get the range needed to run longer routes these would need large and heavier batteries. While there is some interesting developments like 1.5 MW flash charging, there is no data to see how these batteries will handle this long term, and most non-Chinese energy grids are far away from having any meaningful coverage of this charging speed anyways.

Reply to  Jonny5
September 22, 2026 5:39 am

Technology is always progressing. Here’s some information on the latest development of sodium-ion batteries.

“Emerging Solid-State Breakthroughs (Up to ~350 Wh/kg)
The highest experimental energy densities come from switching to solid-state designs, though these are not yet in mainstream vehicles.

Zhaona New Energy (~350 Wh/kg): In late 2025, China’s Zhaona New Energy (Sodium Technology) set an industry benchmark by certifying a solid-state sodium-ion pouch cell that reached 348.5 Wh/kg.”

“This breakthrough challenges the traditional perception of low energy density in sodium-ion batteries, surpassing mainstream ternary lithium batteries.”

https://news.metal.com/newscontent/103700400-energy-density-breaks-3485-whkg-zhaona-new-energys-solid-state-sodium-ion-battery-sets-new-industry-record

MarkW
Reply to  Vincent
September 22, 2026 7:47 am

Being skeptical of marketing claims, makes one anti-science.
Is that the new tag line?

Reply to  Vincent
September 22, 2026 2:38 pm

Technology is always progressing.

Hence, it is immature. Once all the improvements are done, there is no more progress to be made.

Reply to  Jonny5
September 22, 2026 3:10 pm

Sodium ion batteries are heavier than lithium ion batteries for the same level of capacity. So buses using sodium ion will have a lower load capacity 24/7/365. Meaning more buses for the same total payload – thus a higher total cost per passenger-mile.

Idle Eric
Reply to  Vincent
September 22, 2026 12:34 am

Correct me if I’m wrong but don’t sodium batteries have significantly lower energy density than lithium, only about 1/2 – 2/3 if google is correct?

Also, in a free market, absent subsidies and other restrictions, would anyone choose sodium batteries over diesel for this application?

Reply to  Idle Eric
September 22, 2026 5:54 am

They used to have a significantly lower energy density, but not compared with the latest sodium-ion batteries which are currently being manufactured.

“The highest density versions of current sodium-ion batteries (SIBs) now range between 160 Wh/kg and 175 Wh/kg for commercially available cells, while next-generation prototypes and solid-state variants are approaching 200 Wh/kg to 350 Wh/kg. At these levels, high-density sodium-ion batteries are actively narrowing the gap with traditional Lithium Iron Phosphate (LFP) cells, which typically sit between 180 and 200 Wh/kg.”

Reply to  Vincent
September 22, 2026 2:57 pm

I fail to understand how a sodium metal battery (Na atomic mass 23g/mol, Standard Electrode Potential vs hydrogen -2.71V) can have a higher energy density than a lithium one (Li atomic mass 7g/mol, SEP vs hydrogen -3.05V).

Idle Eric
Reply to  Vincent
September 22, 2026 11:38 pm

Existing lithium batteries now go up to 300 Wh/kg, so the very best sodium batteries now sit at the bottom end of the range for lithium.

And to repeat my initial question, would anybody choose these over diesel in a free market?

MarkW
Reply to  Vincent
September 22, 2026 7:45 am

Funny how so many advocates actually believe that whatever scam they are pushing represents “scientific” progress.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Vincent
September 22, 2026 9:35 am

First of all, leading with a disparaging remark does not gain you credibility.
We are not skeptical about scientific progress. We are skeptical about unverified claims and appeals to authority as if such were proof.

That aside.

It is true, sodium Ion batteries have better cold weather performance.
It is also true, sodium ion batteries have lower capacity and current ratings (marginal, but lower).
It is also true sodium is cheaper than lithium.

The battery is only one factor.
It is possible that electric buses will be viable in the future.
Let the market decide.

There is no one shoe fits all solution to anything.

KevinM
September 21, 2026 7:46 pm

“the city’s transit authority is going to have to acquire 650 new buses that run on compressed natural gas because the EV buses won’t work”

I had a negative reaction to “have to”.
Why new instead of whatever’s available for a good price?
Why 650 of them instead of 100 or 1000?
Why compressed natural gas instead of diesel?

Argument reads like “I can’t fly to the moon on a skateboard so my neighbors have to fly me to the moon by spinning my propeller hat really fast.” Why should my neighbors be in charge of planning and funding my lunar mission?

Gregg Eshelman
September 22, 2026 3:32 am

The Schwan’s food company started using propane powered delivery tricks in 1974. 64% to 70% of their fleet was propane powered in 2014, with up to 90% in some areas. I’ve never seen a Schwan’s truck that wasn’t propane powered. https://www.refrigeratedfrozenfood.com/articles/89370-how-the-schwan-food-co-exercises-a-greener-way-to-do-business

Gregg Eshelman
September 22, 2026 3:42 am

None of these cities has bothered to look at a successful electric bus program that’s been going since 1992, and has relied on local funding for it aside from an initial federal grant to get started. The shuttle buses in downtown Chattanooga, TN get their operating costs paid from a cut of parking lot and meter fees plus there are donation boxes on every bus and at the two stations. Nobody has to pay to ride them.

The buses started with lead acid batteries and there was a quick change station at the ole railroad station. When they switched to NiMH (IIRC they skipped NiCd) the quick change station was no longer used because the buses could get through a day with a top up charge then full charge overnight. When I was there for an event in 2015, the fleet’s transition to Lithium-Ion was almost complete. The Li-Ion buses could make it all day without needing to charge up.

I would not be surprised if they’ve been changing to LiFePo4. If not, they might go to Sodium-Ion.

Other cities should be copying what Chattanooga has done.

observa
September 22, 2026 5:23 am

…and it’s not like it’s even cold in Brisbane Queensland-
New 630 buses for Qld signals a return to diesel power
They want economic busses that run on time.