created by Thiago Hellinger for the CO2 Coalition

Time to Stop Pretending Renewables Are Cheap

From Tilak’s Substack

Tilak Doshi

In the cacophony of voices clamouring for a hasty ‘energy transition’ away from fossil fuels, there are several tropes that are regularly employed by devotees of the Church of Climate. Over the past few decades, these tropes have been weaponised to convince lay people to cede all power to climate bureaucrats to ‘save the planet’. One trope that permeates the mass media and writings by ‘climate experts’ like Michael Mann and Bill McKibben is ‘cheap’ solar and wind energy. This is despite the debunking of the magical thinking of the ‘new’ energy economy by those who understand and respect the laws of physics and economics.

Another trope that has gained traction among green ideologues is the ‘primary energy fallacy’. Social media commentary is peppered with references to this fallacy, frequently invoked to show that fossil fuels need not be replaced ‘one-to-one’ by ‘efficient’ renewable energy. This notion, peddled by advocates of wind and solar power such as Dr Jan Rosenow, Senior Research Associate at Oxford and Cambridge Universities, argues that traditional metrics of primary energy consumption — measuring the raw energy extracted from nature before conversion — systematically underestimate the contributions of renewables.

Why? Because fossil fuels like coal and gas lose much of their energy as waste heat during electricity generation, while wind turbines and solar panels deliver electricity with near-perfect efficiency. Thus, the argument goes, comparing energy sources on a primary energy basis penalises ‘efficient’ low-carbon technologies and inflates the role of ‘inefficient’ fossil fuels. It’s a clever rhetorical device that paints unreliable, intermittent renewables as the unsung heroes of decarbonisation.

A fallacy which isn’t

But scratch beneath the surface, and this ‘fallacy’ reveals itself as little more than a sleight of hand, a convenient narrative to prop up costly and unreliable energy sources at the expense of economic rationality. Drawing on the incisive analyses of advocates of energy literacy such as Lars Schernikau and Ronald Stein, it’s clear that the real distortion lies in ignoring the full system-level costs and inefficiencies of wind and solar as well as the multiple uses of oil and gas as feedstock for myriad products.

Far from being a progressive insight, the primary energy fallacy critique serves to obscure the harsh realities of intermittency, resource intensity and escalating costs that plague the push for renewables. In an era where energy security and affordability are paramount — especially for developing economies in Asia, Africa and Latin America — this misdirection threatens to impose vast financial costs on societies already straining under fiscal and trade deficits.

Primary energy, as defined by institutions like the International Energy Agency (IEA) and BP in their annual statistical reviews, tallies the unprocessed energy from sources such as coal, oil, gas, uranium, wind and sunlight. It relates to the total energy content of natural resources before any conversion processes take place. When converted to electricity, thermal sources like coal-fired plants operate at efficiencies of around 35-40%, with combined-cycle gas turbines reaching up to 60%. The rest dissipates as heat.

In contrast, wind and solar convert their ‘primary’ inputs — kinetic wind energy or solar irradiance — directly into electricity with minimal thermal losses, approaching 100% in accounting terms. A simple example illustrates the point: 100 units of gas primary energy might yield only 40 to 60 units of electricity, while 100 units from wind deliver the same 100 units as usable power. On primary energy charts, gas appears to contribute more, making renewables seem marginal.

Yet this comparison is myopic, confined as it is to the electricity sector, which accounts for just about 20% of global final energy consumption. The bulk of energy use — some 80% — occurs in non-electric forms: industrial heat for steelmaking and cement production, gas for cooking and home heating, petroleum for transportation, and petrochemicals for everything from fertilisers to plastics. Here, fossil fuels often deliver energy services with far higher efficiencies than the pro-renewable narrative admits. Direct combustion of gas for heating, for instance, achieves 80-90% efficiency, dwarfing the losses in electricity generation.

Renewables, by their nature, produce only electricity – intermittently at that — leaving vast swathes of the energy economy untouched without massive, inefficient ‘electrify everything’ efforts. As Dr Schernikau aptly notes in his writings, primary energy remains ‘king’ because it captures the raw inputs needed across the entire energy system, not just the narrow slice of grid power.

The indispensable role of fossil fuels extends far beyond energy provision requisite to modern civilisation. As Ronald Stein emphasises in his work, including the book Clean Energy Exploitations, oil and gas are the foundational feedstocks of over 6,000 products that underpin human progress, from plastics and cosmetics to pharmaceuticals and ammonia for fertilisers.

These materials cannot be replicated by so-called renewables like wind and solar, which generate only electrons and offer no viable pathways to synthesise the complex hydrocarbons essential for everything from medical devices and electronics to agricultural inputs that feed billions. Stein’s energy literacy advocacy highlights how decarbonisation zeal overlooks this reality: without fossil-derived ammonia, global food production would plummet, exacerbating hunger in developing countries already facing population pressures.

Petrochemicals derived from crude oil enable the sterile packaging for vaccines, the durable materials for wind turbine blades (ironically) and the synthetic fibres in clothing. Attempting to ‘electrify everything’ ignores that these products require molecular building blocks from fossils, not just electricity, rendering the transition not just costly but fundamentally impossible without alternatives that don’t exist at scale. This dependency underscores why primary energy metrics are vital — they reflect the total resource base sustaining not only power but the myriad goods that define quality of life.

Moreover, the efficiency boast of renewable energy enthusiasts crumbles when we consider the intermittency of wind and solar energy — sources that generate electricity only when nature cooperates, typically at capacity factors of 15-40% for wind and 10-25% for solar, compared to 80-90% for baseload coal or nuclear. This variability demands a ‘redundancy’ infrastructure of dispatchable power backup plants, largely fossil-fuelled, to fill the gaps. It is tantamount to paying twice for the same thing.

The real costs of ‘cheap’ renewables

In Germany, the poster child for the Energiewende (energy transition), wind and solar, now comprise over 50% of installed capacity, yet the country has had to maintain and even expand coal and gas-fired plants as backups. These backups operate at low utilisation rates, burning fuel inefficiently and inflating primary energy use. Grid-scale battery storage, often touted as the solution to intermittency, remains prohibitively expensive and resource-intensive. Even Tesla’s Megapacks can provide mere minutes or hours of backup for utility-scale needs, and scaling to days or weeks during periods of Dunkelflaute would require astronomical investments in rare earths and minerals, much of it controlled by China. Germany and fellow energy-suicide countries such as the UK now boast among the world’s highest electricity prices.

Schernikau’s system-level analysis exposes the core deception: while individual wind turbines or solar panels may appear efficient, their integration into a reliable grid erodes that advantage. To achieve dispatchable power — electricity available 24/7/365 with stable voltage, frequency and phase — renewables necessitate overbuilding by factors of three to five times or more, plus ancillary systems like short-duration batteries and upgraded transmission lines.

These additions consume vast amounts of primary energy in mining and manufacturing, often unaccounted for in standard metrics. For example, producing one TWh of lifetime electricity from solar requires 340-560 kilotons of steel plus copper and rare earths, compared to just one to two kilotons of steel for coal or gas. Wind fares little better, demanding 30-50 kilotons of steel and three to six kilotons of copper per TWh. Mining these materials is energy-intensive, predominantly powered by trucks and mining equipment powered by fossil fuels, embedding hidden primary energy costs that the IEA’s ‘partial substitution method’ conveniently ignores by assuming near-100% efficiency for renewables.

Selected materials required by electricity generation technology. Source: Schernikau based on Department of Energy, USA. See also here.

This brings us to the energy return on investment (eROI), a metric that measures how much usable energy a source delivers relative to the energy invested in its extraction, processing and deployment. At the system level, wind and solar’s eROI plummets to 5-10 to 1 for solar and 10-20 to 1 for wind (even lower with battery storage), versus 25-30 to 1 for coal and gas and over 75 to 1 for nuclear. Schernikau highlights that renewables’ short operational lifetimes — 10-20 years for wind, 12-15 for solar — mean that they must be replaced two to four times over a 40-60 year fossil plant lifecycle, generating mountains of waste and further primary energy demands. Global primary energy statistics underplay this; in 2024 IEA data, wind and solar’s 4,655 TWh of primary energy yielded 4,623 TWh of electricity, but this excludes the energy for overbuilding and backups.

The analysis provided by renewables cheerleader the International Energy Agency leaves out the fact that as renewables penetration as a percentage of total grid generation increases, the marginal value of each additional renewable kWh diminishes. This leads to higher system costs and, counterintuitively, potentially even greater primary energy use overall.

Critics of primary energy metrics acknowledge efficiency gains in end-use technologies like electric vehicles (EVs), which are three to four times more efficient than internal combustion engines. But they too warn of over-optimism, noting that electrification amplifies resource demands: EVs require six times more critical minerals than conventional cars, and scaling renewables for an all-electric world would demand 12-16 times more minerals overall, plus over 100 times more land.

Land use is no trivial matter: solar farms at 5-7 MW per km2 and wind at 1-2 MW per km2 sprawl across vast areas, sparking opposition across rural communities in the US, Europe and the UK. In the US, the work of Robert Bryce on a renewables rejection database has tracked this phenomenon in detail. The damage to ecosystems and flora and fauna caused by wind and solar farms has sparked opposition by rural communities and conservationists around the world. It should be noted, however, that often rentier solar and wind energy companies with business models which harvest subsidies and reap guaranteed profits can buy farmers out in the agricultural sector.

Habitat destruction in areas set aside for solar and wind farms – which disrupts traditional livelihoods, hurts property values, wrecks vital croplands, ruins scenic vistas and kills birds, bats and other wildlife – has been amply documented over the years across rural communities around the world. We have yet to consider supply chain vulnerabilities of renewable energy systems and geopolitical risks — China dominates 80% of rare earth processing as well as dominating the global production of wind and solar energy components.

The full cost of electricity (FCOE), which includes intermittency and grid integration, reveals renewables as far costlier than the misleading ‘levelised cost of electricity’ (LCOE) metric suggests. In Europe, household electricity prices have doubled since the early 2000s, largely due to renewable subsidies and grid upgrades. Germany’s Energiewende has cost over €500 billion, yet emissions reductions stall as coal lingers for reliability. Developing nations, where energy demand is booming, cannot afford such experiments; Asia’s coal fleet, the world’s largest, continues to expand rapidly because it delivers affordable, dispatchable power.

What primary energy fallacy?

In truth, the ‘primary energy fallacy’ is a fallacy in itself, a distraction from the unpopular truths of energy physics and economics. By fixating on narrow efficiency gains, ideologues overlook how wind and solar, at scale, regress humanity toward low net-energy systems reminiscent of pre-industrial eras. Primary energy metrics, far from obsolete, illuminate the total inputs required for industrial societies that promise prosperity for the vast majority of people in the Global South. Until breakthroughs in storage render intermittent energy sources viable without mandates and massive subsidies, fossil fuels — and yes, even “beautiful, clean coal” with pollution-limiting filters and equipment — remain indispensable.

Decades of delusion and fanaticism over man-made climate crises predicted by junk science models collided with reality at the conclusion of the UN’s chaotic climate jamboree this year at Belem, Brazil. The concluding global outcome document of COP30 – which was not attended by the leaders of the world’s most prolific emitters of greenhouse gases, China, the US and India – had stripped out any mention of eliminating fossil fuels. This though did not stop UN bureaucrats from telling its members that they should triple their spending on the ‘climate crisis’ over the next decade.

Policymakers would do well to heed energy experts like Schernikau and Stein. Chasing luxury beliefs do not cost well-heeled climate bureaucrats and renewables ideologues much, but the burdens of irrational energy policies will be borne by the world’s poorest. The real path forward lies in pragmatic, technology-neutral approaches that prioritise energy abundance over austerity.

This article was first published in the Daily Sceptic [ https://dailysceptic.org/2025/12/05/time-to-stop-pretending-renewables-are-cheap/ ]

Dr Tilak K. Doshi is the Daily Sceptic‘s Energy Editor. He is an economist, a member of the CO2 Coalition and a former contributor to Forbes. Follow him on Substack and X.

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2hotel9
December 6, 2025 6:06 pm

No, time to stop pretending solar and wind are renewables.

Reply to  2hotel9
December 6, 2025 10:06 pm

They are actually totally unsustainable over the longer period.

A humungous amount of materials is required to keep replacing them and the battery back-up needed… not to mention the continued devastation of the environment.

And if you stop Coal, Oil and Gas…. you can’t make wind turbines or solar panels.

2hotel9
Reply to  bnice2000
December 7, 2025 3:34 am

Add to that the small fact they don’t produce enough electricity to sustain their own operation. The whole thing has been nothing but lies, start to finish.

David A
Reply to  2hotel9
December 7, 2025 5:21 am

One of the largest factors in power generation cost, often forgotten, is the immense costs to NG and Coal that “renewable “regulations add to fossil fuel generation. These regulations reduce their income per capacity immensely, FORCING them to play second fiddle to wind and solar (greatly reducing income) while also forcing them to be operational ready 24 – 7 , increasing their operational costs and shortening their equipment life.

They then claim NG and Coal cost XXX per KW, when almost 1/3 rd of that cost is artificialy reduced revenue and artificialy increased operational costs.

joe-Dallas
Reply to  David A
December 7, 2025 6:36 am

Yes, the pricing incentives force fossil fuels to play second fiddle to wind and solar while at the same time, fossil fuels heavily subsidize wind and solar since renewables dont pay for the cost of their instability and intermittency.

Petey Bird
Reply to  2hotel9
December 7, 2025 8:23 am

Also stop pretending that they are sources of useful energy.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  2hotel9
December 8, 2025 8:06 am

The definition of renewable is an energy system that does not deplete its fuel while producing.

That definition fits. Unfortunately it creates major misinformation opportunities and the propaganda is produced much more than the electrons of those systems.

It is not the word, it is the way politics uses the word, changing context to alter the perspective.

2hotel9
Reply to  Sparta Nova 4
December 8, 2025 9:16 am

Wrong. Solar and wind are not renewable, they are failures. The only renewable sources are gas, oil, coal, hydro and nuclear. In underdeveloped parts of the world wood, animal dung and dried grasses are the renewable sources. Saying anything else is disinformation and propaganda.

December 6, 2025 6:37 pm

They’re not cheap. They’re free!

Aren’t they, Nick? Nick….?

D Sandberg
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 6, 2025 11:19 pm

Most bloggers who are paying attention to cost comparisons have moved on from LCOE to FLCOE (Full) that includes the cost of firming and capital costs for dismantling and replacing wind and solar 2-3 times to equal CCGT 60-year lifecycle. This shows that wind and solar are 2-3 times more expensive than CCGT depending on regional conditions.
FLCOE Analysis:

California (CAISO)

Wind (20 yrs, 2 cycles) $180–$220/MWh $220–$280/MWh
Solar (25 yrs, 2 cycles) $200–$260/MWh $250–$320/MWh
CCGT (60 yrs) $55–$75/MWh $80–$110/MWh

joe-Dallas
Reply to  D Sandberg
December 7, 2025 6:39 am

Sandberg – do you have a link to the California cost computation. My back of the envelope computation would have put wind and solar full cost around $150-$200 per mwh. Which is about 4x-6x higher than lazards LCOE. Thanks for any link

D Sandberg
Reply to  joe-Dallas
December 7, 2025 7:15 am

These numbers were generated by Copilot AI with a lot of back and forth from me. Please note that Lazard LCOE does not include firming (backup for intermittency) nor correction for replacement costs. The only meaningful metric is the Full Levelized Cost Of Energy.

joe-Dallas
Reply to  D Sandberg
December 7, 2025 11:10 am

D Sandberg – fwiw – I am fully aware of the deception of LCOE and the huge effective subsidies fossil fuel provides to renewables which dont pay for the costs of the intermittency nor the costs of maintaining stability.

joe-Dallas
Reply to  D Sandberg
December 7, 2025 11:12 am

D Sanberg – I will add that the levelized FULL cost of Electricity computations I have seen have been light on the total cost which is the reason that I would like to have a link to a study that is better than AI.

D Sandberg
Reply to  joe-Dallas
December 7, 2025 4:44 pm

FLCOE Analysis:
California (CAISO)

References

2hotel9
Reply to  D Sandberg
December 8, 2025 9:19 am

Using any AI strips you of credibility.

D Sandberg
Reply to  2hotel9
December 8, 2025 9:29 am

Congratulation 2 you just won the idiot statement of the week award.

2hotel9
Reply to  D Sandberg
December 9, 2025 3:15 am

Yep, that is exactly what you did. Good job, buddy.

December 6, 2025 6:48 pm

Any significant change to a system, especially one that society itself relies totally upon, should have at the very least a proof of concept. I mean, we do this for pretty much every single engineering project employing any new technology. We don’t just slap together a nuclear fission plant, for example, we try out the concept first. We don’t just whack a few bits of aluminium and a jet engine or two together and then expect it to carry passengers, do we?

So why do we rush headlong into wind and solar without a proof of concept? It’s insanity.

So, set aside a town. Get it to rely 100% on renewables, and whatever else you think may be required to back it up, storage or fossil fuel generators, for example. Add in all-electric heating and cooking, and all electric vehicles. Then see how it works. Refine this until it does work. Then see how much it costs.

Then, and only then, should it be used in a real situation. If economically viable, of course.

Oh, and even trying this in a model should be extremely easy and very cheap, first. Unlike climate, the parameters are very well understood (by engineers, not activists or politicians), and simple to program. The only real variable would be the weather, but several different possibilities could be tried.

In fact, why has nobody tried to model it anyway?

Edit: OK, found the models. Most if not all seem to use the discredited LCOE. I think it needs a real proof of concept to get over these silly assumptions about costs.

The kind of organisation I would expect to do this, actually doesn’t.
https://www.nrel.gov/grid/generation-storage-models
Renewable Energy Generation and Storage Models, apparently, but no actual entire systems modelled. Perhaps there’s a reason?

Loren Wilson
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 6, 2025 7:31 pm

I volunteer Portland or Seattle.

Reply to  Loren Wilson
December 7, 2025 7:25 am

Maybe not. Having access to abundant hydro power is likely a signifiicant contributor to the Pacific North West’s proclivity towards Eco-Marxism.

JamesB_684
Reply to  Frank from NoVA
December 8, 2025 9:42 am

The hard Left Greens exclude hydro power from “renewable” power considerations.
The dams block the flow of water desired by wild salmon and (they say) must be torn down with alacrity.

I’d be fine with that if the hard Left Greens would support nuclear power plants. Nano, micro, small modular reactors, plus gigawatt scale plants. Light water and high temp gas plants… Plus, reactors like the GE-Hitachi PRISM reactors to reduce the spent fuel from the modular units. And while we’re at it, add lots of natural gas fired generation plants for variable power load needs.

oeman50
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 7, 2025 5:42 am

It also appears whenever someone attempts such a demonstration project, the guinea pigs locals fight back. This has happened for CCS and hydrogen projects. I believe one of the Canary Islands tried to rely on renewables (including pumped storage) for a test period but still had to depend on fossil generators to prevent blackouts.

Hartley
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 7, 2025 8:34 am

Check out Babcock Ranch in SW Florida. Built (and billed) as a solar community, they have 870 acres of solar farm to power their current 4000 or so “high energy efficiency” homes, though they don’t say if they are going to install more when they get to their planned 19,000. [I suspect their “homes” count includes condos, of which they have many]
Also noticeable when you drive past is the very large power line serving the area.

Sparta Nova 4
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 8, 2025 8:10 am

Stop being realistic and pragmatic.

Just tell me what to think and where to go protest.
/s

Bob
December 6, 2025 6:52 pm

Very nice. Wind and solar don’t work, everybody knows that. They not only don’t work but they are a danger to the grid. They are by far more expensive. The only considerations we need to look at is how much does it cost to generate X units of electricity 24/7. How much does it cost to build each style of generator for Y units of capacity. What percentage of capacity is actually generated for each style generator. How much flora and fauna do we have to sacrifice for each style of generator.

The conclusion is clear wind and solar lose on every measure. Stop building crap that doesn’t work.

JamesB_684
Reply to  Bob
December 8, 2025 12:02 pm

Should also include the costs of the resource extraction (diesel, slaves, etc.) for all of the components going into the manufacture and installation of the energy producers and energy collectors. I prefer using diesel to mine uranium, coal, natural gas, iron ore, etc. …

December 6, 2025 7:11 pm

Not only aren’t they cheap, but over their short life span, they are the most toxic and environmentally damaging forms of electricity production there is.

The massive mining for rare earths, the very toxic chemicals required for extraction, the environmental devastation of habitats or farmland during installation, the damage to all sorts of lifeforms during operation, and the masses of landfill required for their leaching toxic components, much of which cannot be recycled, and the huge balls of concrete left in the ground, destroying water tables and habitats.

They truly are a disgustingly filthy way of producing intermittent and unreliable electricity.

Loren Wilson
December 6, 2025 7:25 pm

Wind turbine are 20-40% efficient at converting the kinetic energy of the wind to electricity. Solar is also in this range so I would not say they are very efficient. The only thing they have going for them is free fuel in wind and sunlight. However, the sun only shines half the time or less. Heavy clouds cut the power production to as low as 10%. The wind does not always blow. I want reliable energy. The cost of full backup has to be included in intermittent sources like wind, solar, and hydroelectric.

Reply to  Loren Wilson
December 6, 2025 7:35 pm

Coal, gas and oil are free too

GeorgeInSanDiego
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 6, 2025 9:24 pm

Fish are also free, it’s catching them and transporting them to the people who might want to eat them that gets expensive.

mleskovarsocalrrcom
December 6, 2025 7:42 pm

They aren’t pretending, they’re promoting a lie …. that’s what propaganda does.

Chris Hanley
December 6, 2025 8:03 pm

The estimates of energy return on energy invested ratio (EROI) vary widely for instance Weissbach et al. (2018) has solar (including storage) at ~ 1.6:1 and wind (including storage) at 3.9:1, clearly according to their estimates both are incapable of sustaining an modern industrialised society.
Ferroni et al. (2016) found that the EROI in regions of moderate insolation (Germany & Switzerland) to result in solar being a net energy sink.

Chris Hanley
Reply to  Chris Hanley
December 6, 2025 8:11 pm

In addition a reason both wind and solar energy have survived in developed countries so far is that all the hardware and its replacements are produced in China using enormous amounts of coal.

December 6, 2025 8:16 pm

UN: We’ve got to spend money to make renewables work!
Reality: Well you spent the money, it didn’t work.
UN: Triple the money!

Medicine Man: Ugh. Gods angry. Throw virgin into volcano!
Reality: Volcano shoot fire, shake ground again, virgin not work.
Medicine Man: Throw three virgins into volcano!

December 6, 2025 8:44 pm

The bulk of energy use — some 80% — occurs in non-electric forms

I hate it when writers cede the high ground. In this case the writer comes back to the high ground, but only after a rather long preamble. The 80% doesn’t matter to people who think we can replace those loads too if only we had enough windmills and solar panels producing electricity to convert everything else.

The cost of electricity is governed not by the energy that went into it, but by the cost of producing and distributing it. Distribution requires stability. What’s stability? The opposite to stability is a power failure. Achieving stability is remarkably complex as it requires production to match the variability of use. People just don’t synchronize what time they turn the lights on. Injecting sources that are by nature highly variable, makes the problem of stability an order of magnitude harder to achieve. The most important point being that the burden of achieving that stability falls on the very sources the renewables are trying to replace. The more renewables you have, the more work must be done by the conventional power generators, and the cost of building two production infrastructures instead of one has to be blended into the overall cost of the electricity. Wind and sunshine might be free, but capex is not, and spending more of it can have no other effect than to increase costs dramatically. So you’ve doubled or tripled capex, conventional sources have to recover their capex from less electricity sold while also shouldering the costs of keeping the grid stable. Then governments scratch their heads and can’t figure out why all this free sunshine and wind is making their grid less stable and five times as expensive.

The solution of course is batteries. We’re perhaps 10 years from making them cost effective. We’ve been 10 years from making them cost effective for 30 years. Only fusion power has a story to rival batteries. Pumped storage! Hydrogen! Methanol! These are all desperate attempts to distract from the core problem, which none of them have an even remote chance of fixing.

Iain Reid
Reply to  davidmhoffer
December 7, 2025 12:19 am

David,
further to the need to run conventional generation to support the system, a lot of thermal generation is running at very light loads, and some with no load at all (spinning reserve) which means running far from optimum efficiency. They cannot just be switched on or off at times of low grid load but must keep at operational temperature as they will be required to ramp up output as grid load increases at peak times.
It is a crazy way to run power plants, all for the unnecessary reduction of CO2, not that running as we do is there much reduction anyway. Grid evaluation usually looks at outputs but not, as far as I am aware, at fuel volume inputs and overall efficiency. in other words, low loaded plants emit a lot of CO2 per Mwatt hour generated.

Reply to  Iain Reid
December 7, 2025 1:25 am

That too!
The sad part is that when all this stuff first started, every electrical engineer immediately said it wouldn’t work when renewables were proposed. They’d even do the math to prove it.

The laws of physics and economics haven’t changed, the engineers just know to keep their mouths closed. In fact some of them have figured out that by insisting that it can be done, they get funding and promotions.

Not to mention the illogic of the climate alarmists. Someone in my complex proposed we put solar panels on the roofs. I pointed out we live in a jurisdiction where it rains 5 months a year. She said, yes, but we could use them the other six. To do what? We’re in a jurisdiction with 100% hydro power, all of our electricity is already omissions free. She said she has a PhD in Ecology. I said great, that changes that we are 100% emissions free already how? She said I clearly didn’t understand the issue and walked away as if she had won the argument. I believe she truly thought she had.

David A
Reply to  Iain Reid
December 7, 2025 5:30 am

Bingo. See my comment above linked here… https://wattsupwiththat.com/2025/12/06/time-to-stop-pretending-renewables-are-cheap/#comment-4138781
“Figures lie, and liars figure “

JamesB_684
Reply to  davidmhoffer
December 8, 2025 12:06 pm

Fusion is likely still 100 years of hard engineering work away from a successful fusion power plant. Wickedly complex problems.
Fission works today, and myriad advanced designs are available now.
Batteries are OK in mobile and remote sites. Not good for grid scale implementations.

rhs
December 6, 2025 9:05 pm

Someone needs to cram this down the Colorado’s Governor throat:
https://coloradosun.com/2025/12/05/colorado-natural-gas-phaseout-reader-questions/

D Sandberg
December 6, 2025 10:47 pm

Here’s what happens when subsidies for wind and solar are expected to drop. It shouldn’t be hard to predict the status of the industry two years after the subsidies end. Here in the U.S, and apparently so in the UK, voters fail to understand that those $billions of subsidies don’t come from the government they come from the people, and the people “pay the price”:

Solar Is Collapsing

Wind Sector Outlook

  • Companies like Ørsted and Equinor have already halted U.S. investments and warned of “extraordinary” financial strain. [oilprice.com]
  • Investment collapse: Wind and solar investments fell 18% in early 2025, and Deloitte projects annual additions through 2030 could drop by 40% compared to pre-rollback forecasts. [deloitte.com]
  • Five-year forecast: Wood Mackenzie downgraded U.S. wind’s outlook by 40%.
  • Repowering era: Aging onshore wind assets need costly upgrades, adding financial pressure as subsidies vanish. [cnbc.com]

Will Wind Companies Go Bankrupt?

  • Analysts expect consolidation and distressed asset sales

Bottom line: Wind companies aren’t “rushing to the exit” yet, but offshore wind is the most exposed segment, and bankruptcies could emerge.

Reply to  D Sandberg
December 7, 2025 1:00 am

The inevitable collapse of Wind can be seen where I live in North Cornwall, a region blighted by an abundance of turbines. Every yearone or two turbines stop operating, perhaps due to breakdown. They are never repaired, but simply abandoned.

D Sandberg
Reply to  Graemethecat
December 7, 2025 7:34 am

“Temporarily” out of service (forever) to avoid triggering required abandonment expenditures. Turbines are a minor issue vs solar. Estimates are by 2050 that 78 million tons of panels will require landfilling. Because of the way the materials are bound together they cannot be cost-effectively recycled. Pretending they will not be simply abandoned in place is as unrealistic as thinking that sunshine and breezes can power a modern society.

Rod Evans
December 7, 2025 12:45 am

The only way the misinterpretation of data surrounding energy generation and use will stop and reality is allowed to prevail, is when the misappropriation of state funds is stopped.
At the moment the few decision making department in government that allocate spending of tax payers money are all being coerced by lobby activists to maintain funding of projects that do not return value for money, but do reward the lobby groups interests and funding needs.
The simple fact is, if renewable energy was cheaper and more desirable its adoption would not need state legislation and the availability of it would not need state funding.

People know how to spend their own money wisely, they do not need state agents doing that for them.

decnine
December 7, 2025 1:15 am

There is only one metric that matters. For each generation technology, what is the cost of 1kwh at a socket in my living room? Cheap at the top of a stick poking out of the North Sea means nothing.

observa
December 7, 2025 1:47 am

 …it’s clear that the real distortion lies in ignoring the full system-level costs

Only children believe the rain that falls from the sky is free so they can stay in the damn shower as long as they like.

Reply to  observa
December 7, 2025 2:27 am

Well for us, in the summer, we pretty much can. I reckon more rain falls on our roof than we can use. Winter is another story, however. A full water tank lasts us a couple of months, but if used carefully.

observa
December 7, 2025 2:37 am
Dsystem
December 7, 2025 3:22 am

In the Australian state of Victoria, we have 800+ years of coal currently supplying a number of power stations. It’s free. It’s owned by the people of Victoria. We don’t pay anyone, except the guys who easily extract it and manage the power stations.

The guardians of these vast reserves, the elected government, have decided to increase royalties to make it hard to compete with other forms of energy. The government, that is the people, charge the guys who extract the coal, so that they penalize the people. They use the royalties for other purposes, even to subsidize the inefficient so-called renewables.

Wind & solar are free (except for the cost of making the equipment, maintaining, killing wildlife, extra transmission, extra network complexity). But for countries with the resources, coal is free for millennia…

December 7, 2025 6:22 am

“Because fossil fuels like coal and gas lose much of their energy as waste heat during electricity generation”

Doesn’t have to be if it’s a cogen system. Not always feasible of course. I believe there’s one in Burlington, VT where the power company heats most of the buildings in the downtown area.

Hartley
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
December 7, 2025 8:42 am

In Florida, the waste heat (in the form of a warm water discharge) is a real boon to manatees, who gather in the warm spots when water temps drop in the winter.

Reply to  Hartley
December 7, 2025 11:14 am

Nice, as long as idiots with power boats don’t run over them- which is or was a problem.

S
December 7, 2025 8:17 am

“…there are several tropes that are regularly employed by devotees of the Church of Climate.”
The devotees would known as Climengelicals.

Kevin Kilty
December 7, 2025 4:38 pm

Excellent.

December 7, 2025 4:46 pm

a steam coal power plant cost abourt 1.5 billion dollar and over it life time will use 2-3 billion dollars of coal and have a life time of 40-50 years

It would take about 800 windmills to replace a coal plant

at a cost of 5-6 million dollars each plus land,transportaion,installion and mantance that would total about 10 million. total cost to replace a coal plant 8 billion dollars.

then you have to add the fact that you would have to replace the windmills at 25 years (or less) that would be 16 billion dollars over the 40-50 years of a coal plant

windmills are not a sustainable solution

Ancient Wrench
December 7, 2025 9:16 pm

Rather than COST, consider the VALUE of wind & solar power. A fully capable and reliable “standby” system must still be built, operated and maintained. Adding intermittent sources, at most, only reduces fuel consumption for the “standby” system.
For a battery-based peaking powerplant, the cheapest way to charge it is by generating additional off-peak power from the “standby” system. The only increased cost is fuel. Capital, operating and maintenance costs are the same.

Sparta Nova 4
December 8, 2025 8:34 am

FCOE is the energy equivalent of TCO (Total Cost of Ownership) and is much more realistic an assessment.

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