Science denying cry-babies in the US have toddled over to the Federal court in Massachusetts to seek an injunction against the recent Department of Energy (DoE) working party report about greenhouse gas emissions. The report’s main finding, produced after examining much of the literature from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), was that computer models offered “little guidance” on how much of the climate responds to warming gases such as carbon dioxide. This observation is regularly ignored in mainstream media but it is hardly a new opinion. The available data leads to that inevitable conclusion despite all the political nonsense claims of ‘settled’ science. To go to court to seek to ban the report is a new low in the increasingly desperate attempt to keep the Net Zero fantasy alive using science scares that are increasingly being debunked.
Not only did the five highly credentialed scientists who wrote the report cast reasonable doubt on the role of climate computer models, they also quoted extensively from data that revealed most extreme weather events were not increasing and sea level rises in North America showed no increasing trend. Attribution claims of human involvement in individual weather events are widely used to spread climate fear, but these were said to be challenged by natural climate variation along with an admission that they were originally designed with ‘lawfare’ in mind. The authors went out of their way to highlight much of the science and many of the opinions contained in the IPCC assessment reports, but they also publicised areas that were conveniently downplayed such as the recent massive ‘greening’ of the planet due to higher levels of CO2.
In any other branch of science, the idea that civilised discussion and disagreement of matters that have crucial public policy importance should be banned by a lawsuit would be absurd – childish even.
But then this is not really about the science. The plaintiffs are worried that the report will be used to justify the removal of CO2 from a 2009 endangerment finding. This would inevitably lead to major rollbacks of rules backing the command-and-control Net Zero project. Announcing the lawsuit, the toys were flung out of the pram: “Two leading science and environment groups are going to court to challenge the Trump administration’s use of a secretively convened group of climate sceptics to prepare a now widely disparaged report in its attempt to undo the Endangerment Findings… the development of this corrupted report, cloaked in secrecy, and Administrator Zeldin’s [Head of the Environment Protection Agency EPA] use of it to undermine pollution protections, puts the American people in harm’s way and violates federal law”. At one point, the report was described as a “sham” and was conducted by “five known climate deniers”.
Needless to say, the two plaintiffs are straight out of Green Blob central casting. The Environmental Defense Fund is a large green activist group and uses ‘lawfare’ to promote its Net Zero advocacy. Donor filings suggest that in 2023 it received $162.9 million from tax-efficient foundations with notable contributors including the Bezos Earth Fund, Sloan and Valhalla funds. The second plaintiff, the Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS), also accepts foundation money and in the past has received sizeable contributions from the MacArthur, Schmidt and Packard funds. Meanwhile, the UCS frequently adds to the gaiety of the nation, not least when on July 24th it issued an oddly precise warning that 169,899,454 people in the United States currently faced extreme weather alerts. In other words, during a typical American summer most of the population might need to top up their sunscreen. This and similar silly scares have led some to suggest the organisation should really be called the Union of Scientists We Should be Concerned About.
Meanwhile, activist ‘fact checkers’ continue to mobilise to find fault in the DoE’s climate report and the proposal by the EPA to rescind the 2009 gas endangerment findings. Last week it emerged that the Blob-funded Carbon Brief operation was ‘fact checking’, and now it appears Associated Press (AP) is engaged in a similar project. AP has written to the scientists quoted in the DoE report and is asking 10 questions “to get a broad sense of the documents’ scientific accuracy”. Noble work of course, but curiously not undertaken when other major reports from bodies such as the IPCC are published. The project is being headed by AP’s Seth Borenstein who has spent over a decade reporting on every climate scare imaginable. He is no stranger to the weird world of mainstream fact checking. In 2018 he helped write a rely to Scott Pruitt, then head of the EPA, that ran as follows:
PRUITT: Do we really know what the ideal surface temperature should be in the year 2100, in the year 2018? That’s somewhat fairly arrogant for us to think we know exactly what it should be in 2100.
THE FACTS: What he calls arrogant is established science. The United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says if fossil fuel emissions continue on the current trajectory, temperatures by the end of the century will be around 6.5 degrees warmer than now (3.7°C).
Note how Borenstein dismissed a reasonable opinion from Pruitt by stating another opinion that the Earth will warm by nearly 4°C in 80 years. His opinion, increasingly seen as fanciful agitprop, is said to be “established science”. It might be argued that the only arrogance on show was in the headline which ran – “AP FACT CHECK: Climate science undercuts EPA chief’s view”. On a wider front, AP describes its fact checking service as – “No spin. No agenda. Just journalism that respects your intelligence”.
For its part, AP received £8 million from tax-efficient foundations in 2022 to hire 20 journalists to help run a climate desk. Funders included the Hewlett, Rockefeller and Walton foundations. The standalone desk “will enhance the global understanding of climate change and its impact across the world”, promised AP. “Unbiased, fact-based journalism has never been more important or imperilled”, chipped in Larry Kramer, President of the William and Flora Hewlett Foundation. “AP retains complete editorial control of all content”, explained the AP press release announcing the large cash injection.
Meanwhile, Dr Roger Pielke Jr, whose work is quoted extensively in the DoE report, has been sent a questionnaire by the Borenstein operation. He notes that the last two questions ask him to assess what grade on a scale A to F he would give to the reports assuming they were handed in as an undergraduate assignment. Activist stupidity got the answer it deserved: “These are absolutely ridiculous questions and suggest that your goal here is not journalism but team sport”.
US Department of Energy: A Critical Review of Impacts of Greenhouse Gas Emissions on the US Climate. Authors – John Christy Ph.D, Judith Curry Ph.D, Steven Koonin Ph.D, Ross McKitrick Ph.D, Roy Spencer Ph.D.
Chris Morrison is the Daily Sceptic’s Environment Editor. Follow him on X.
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It would be defensible, if a bit hard, to classify the Green Blob of NGOs and their affiliated “charities” as a RICO, and prosecute accordingly.
More and more folks are becoming aware that the not-self-supporting grift system demands buy-in from the general public to survive. Discussion of the issues is nothing but an antithesis to their objectives.
Their system, like many others, depends on a complex event-reaction-“solution” process. This process was described in a Jimmy Dore interview with Keith McHenry, with the gist between 3:40 and 8:05.
The process incorporates 1) crisis manufacture, 2) nonprofit laundering, 3) metrics that don’t matter, 4) bureaucratic capture, 5) political firewall, 6) media compliance, and 7) the forever budget.
My perspective is the most of the theatrics function on irrelevant statistics, exactly like “169,899,454 extreme weather alerts.” I recall that winning in Viet Nam was about “body counts,” and the severity about COVID was the evening news chyrons about “cases.”
As summarized in the Dore interview, the crisis becomes a career ladder, tragedy is monetized and the wound is kept open since there is power, prestige and profit in pretending to “heal” it. Solving the problem would bankrupt the managers.
The loud unpleasant reaction of the grifters to recent changes has drawn a lot of attention to the grift system – negative attention from erstwhile indifferent bystanders. “I don’t pay for _that_. Do I?”
Deniers like Chris have never taken time to learn about climate and so must resort to childish name calling. Chris and other deniers like her can be dismissed as the fools they are. It’s hard to believe anyone is dumb enough to fall for this propaganda
Is calling someone a denier not childish? That looked less than superior.
Nobody denies that the climate is in a permanent state of flux. So the term is bollox.
Many people deny what you claim no one denies.
How has the climate changed over the last 50years?
You are not making any sense.
Nobody denies that the climate is in a permanent state of flux. So the term is bollox.
You can’t answer how the climate has changed over the last 50 years. Do you deny the changes?
Nobody denies that the climate is in a permanent state of flux.
Naturally, that includes all years, not just 50.
Nobody has denied the climate has changed. Your pejorative term is quite useless.
You still can’t name how the climate has changed over the last 50 years 🤔
You cannot say why you are constrained to the last 50 years.
Or can you?
Religion can really screw people up.
And still no answer. You are a denier
Eric,
The response has been that no one is denying climate change, and that the climate is in a constant state of change. What is being denied. Your constant nonsensical reply are pointless.
Just like a Holocaust denier, right? 🙂
See my comments, above.
Well, let’s see – 50 years ago was 1975. At that time there was data that appeared to indicate a global cooling trend. There were scientific articles and even a TV documentary (Leonard Nimoy, Dr. Steven Schnieder) called “In Search of the Coming Ice Age sounding alarm about deadly climate change. Now we seem to have returned to a slight warming trend which has been going on since the mid 1800s. Before that there was “the little ice age” which followed the medieval warm period, etc. So that’s what one might well call a continuous state of climate flux.
I guess I missed the Enter key-but, the magazine cover showing the glaciers eating New York City would have also worked.
Or the one showing the statue of liberty up to her armpits in melted glaciers?
Time magazine sucks. I liked it as a kid in the ’60s. It’s gotten progressively (no pun intended) worse since then. 🙂
And still no response 🤦♂️
Clearly, you are unable to count the many replies that you have received.
He probably skipped basic math- ’cause you know, it’s racist. 🙂
You are so brilliant you have overwhelmed everyone here. /s
He’s so brilliant that he has outwitted himself.
“Well, let’s see – 50 years ago was 1975. At that time there was data that appeared to indicate a global cooling trend.”
Then in 1976, the UK experienced one of the hottest summers on record, spanning from June 23 to August 27, with temperatures peaking at 35.9°C (96.6°F) in Cheltenham. It was marked by severe drought conditions, leading to water rationing and significant impacts on agriculture and health, including a notable increase in excess deaths.
Drought and Environmental Impact
The summer of 1976 was marked by a significant drought, with some areas experiencing no rain for weeks.The drought was the worst in 250 years, leading to water rationing and the passing of the Drought Act 1976.Severe ecological effects included the destruction of 50,000 trees in Dorset and a notable increase in ladybird populations due to the dry conditions.We were told to save water and share our baths with a friend…Health and Societal Effects
The heatwave contributed to a 20% increase in excess deaths, with a significant rise in hospital admissions during the peak heat.The government appointed Denis Howell as the ‘Minister for Drought’ to address the crisis. Mr Howell succeeded in getting the heavens to open within a few days of his appointment. And, as the heavy rainfall continued, he soon became known as the Minister for Floods.Then on August bank holiday it rained & boy did it rain.
In fact, it rained pretty much solidly throughout September (breaking the 1918 record for the wettest September on record) and into October with the most rainfall the UK had seen in 250 years.
Your source of information on climate is a dead Hollywood actor. Great 🤦♂️
How about a professor at Brown university, in a letter to the President.
nice find!
And as usual, an evasion rather than dealing with the facts being presented.
Eric, the stupidity of your question is revealing. Climate is standardly the 30 year average of a host of parameters at a given location. Many parameters are not measured but those that are will see their average change almost every year. No two locations are the same.
Same for regional and global averages although we have no way of measuring those. We do have crude satellite readings of temperature for almost 50 years and they show a bit of warming, all apparently natural.
try asking actual questions.
So your only response is that the world has warmed. Any denying the warming would then be a denier?
The world has likely warmed, an event that began about 200 years ago. That welcome warming followed the coolest period of the last 10,000 years, the Little Ice Age. That was indeed a troubled climate.
It is common practice among the climate crisis faithful to cherry-pick their starting point, as you have, to ignore the broader scope of climate dynamics. Reality does not support the narrow crisis narrative.
Define a denier. As with any subject, scientific or otherwise, there are wide ranges of viewpoints.
Neither can you.
When you say climate, are you asking about anything particular about the climate? There have been a great many changes, as there were in the previous 50 years.
Depends where you are, also – are you asking about the climate in any particular location?
But yet you can’t give any examples
Examples abound in the comments, above. You are being childishly obtuse.
Name how the climate has changed? Do you realize that’s a poor use of the English language?
See my comment, above. You need to specify what changes you have seen.
The climate hasn’t changed. Not if you define climate as the average of weather.
The temperature has risen a tiny bit, continuing a trend that has lasted 250 years. However, over the last 50 years there have been no other changes in climate.
Ah, but that average changes second by second. The weather in this moment is not exactly the same as precisely 30 years prior, so the average changes. The average weather is climate so, by its very definition, climate is constantly changing.
Apparently we had record muggy this summer:
https://x.com/borenbears/status/1954549680362443256?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
I hadn’t seen much from Seth Goebbelstein recently so I looked him up to see what the injunction was about. I still don’t know. Anyone looked up the details? Rud?
Maybe I’ll get on PACER tonight.
The WEATHER is extremely variable. Get used to it.
What changes? See my above comment.
This, to me at least, comes under Carl Sagan’s “extraordinary claim” category.
As the one making this claim you will, obviously, be able to provide “extraordinary evidence” to back it up.
Please provide at least three (3) citations and links to the examples of these “many people” of whom you speak that you consider to be the closest to :
“I deny that the climate is in a permanent state of flux.”
.
My “prediction” : You will be unable to fulfil this simple request, and limit yourself to calling me names instead.
The downvoters are out to get you.
If he cannot make sense, he can’t put an argument together. Needs instructions….
Much faster than usual.
I barely had time to “logout then reload page to check the post isn’t ‘awaiting moderation’ for some reason” and it was down to -1 already.
I’m still waiting for a response as to how the climate has changed over the last 50 years
Why only 50 years? Maybe you’d care to explain that?
And still no response as to how the climate has changed over the last 50 years
Are you in search of a village?
Very nice-and quite subtle-allusion to the witch Hillary. I wonder who else-including Eric-will get it? Always a pleasure, Strat.
Oh, Hell-I missed the reference-it’s pretty much dropped out of US slang. Oooops.
Always happy to help.
I was alluding to an idiot in search of…
Yeah, got it…it’s been that kind of a day. Sigh.
Hillary’s was “it takes a village”. I believe Strat was referring to a “village idiot” in a very subtle – but on spot – manner!
Sheesh. I’m sorry I posted. Should have read down just a little further.
Only one l – she is sensitive to that.
A slight warming caused by three non-human-caused El Nino events.
Data shows that is about the only change in the last 50 years.
No trend in extreme weather… just a large greening of the planet.
So you think if anyone denies the warming g, they would have to be denying the climate is in a state of flux
That doesn’t make any sense.
There are many climate zones; to which do you refer?
Your continued monomania has provided much fun and distractions into the esoteric for WUWT denizens.
Unfortunately, you are dealing with an emotional child.
Indeed
It has gotten a bit warmer, thereby improving. What’s your point?
This the only change?
The sea level has continued it’s very gradual rise, the one that has been continuing for the last 250 years without acceleration.
Beyond that, no nothing has changed.
Storms are not getting more frequent or stronger.
Floods are not getting more frequent or stronger.
Droughts are not getting more frequent or stronger.
Etc.
The Earth is clearly getting greener. By that, I mean more vegetation is evident – especially on the outskirts of deserts.
So if anyone denies the world has warmed or that sea levels have risen, then they would be denying the climate is in flux?
Sea level has been rising since the LIA, here is one of the really good long term sites.. 1mm year year.. very scary. ! 😉
Along the whole Australian seaboard there is geological evidence that the sea levels were 1-2m higher only a a thousand years or so ago.
There is zero evidence of any human caused sea level rise.
Actually . . . it is!!
There has been no change over the last 100 years and more in the frequency and intensity of floods hurricanes and droughts.
And, perhaps more importantly, the number of deaths due to extreme weather conditions is now less than 2% of what it was 100 years ago.
And, blow me down, since 1960, wheat yields have doubled and yields for maize and rice have tripled. And . . . in the last 100 years the global population has more than tripled, whilst the proportion of the global population living in abject poverty has never been as low as it is now. And it continues to decrease.
So . . . what is your bloody problem and what is your bloody point?!!
Apologies – the global population over the last 100 years has more than . . . QUADRUPLED.
There’s no evidence that anything else has changed.
Where? What locale? What region? Urban or rural? Ocean or land?
NB : You directed that challenge to “strativarius”, not to me.
A major problem in the “debate” is that the phrase “climate change” evokes different thoughts to different people.
One possible subject is “tropical cyclones / hurricanes”, and how “climate change” is already — allegedly / supposedly / theoretically / … — making them more frequent (and/or more intense).
A link to an image file on Ryan Maue’s “climatlas.com/tropical/” website should be enough to dispel that specific conjecture …
.
OK, many other people use GMST (anomalies) as the measure of “climate change”.
A slightly different view of the NCEI (/ NOAA) GMST dataset, which provides the offsets required to calculate their absolute reanalysis numbers, is attached to the end of this post.
You asked for “over the last 50 years”, I went back to January 1970 (~55.5 years) as a bonus.
.
Which “climate changes over the last 50 years” did you have in mind when you were typing in your initial challenge to “strativarius” ?
So you saying the only change is a warmer climate? If so, then anyone denying the warming would be denying the climate has been in a state of flux
WTH are you talking about ! You are making zero sense.
Climate is always in a state of flux… it is totally natural, and has been over all of the planet’s history.
I don’t think that the term “state of flux” ie something is constantly changing and uncertain, rather than stable or fixed is understood by young Eric
The poor child believes he’s leading us down a primrose path that exists only in his mind.
He’s getting ready to unveil a newspaper article declaring that there are more storms based on a one year trend, and then declare that we are all proven deniers.
Name a prominent scientist that claims that the globe has not warmed over the past 50 years.
Please stop using the term “denier.” It is offensive to many people. Personally, I don’t give a shit how ignorant you make yourself look.
Why do you always end up demanding that other people do the work for you.
Over the last 50 years, it hasn’t changed.
Over the last 150 years it’s gotten a little bit warmer.
Over the last 1000 years it’s gotten colder.
Over the last 5000 years, it’s gotten a lot colder.
Yes, this is true of temperature and of most indicators, they have moved up and down and whether they have moved up or down in the last 50 years doesn’t mean a lot.
You see the same amusing fallacy when people say this is the warmest June or coldest March. As if the temperature comparisons of those particular 30 day periods as opposed to say 15th to 15 of months has some significance. Other than to us on this particular calendar.
Climate, though? Does it even makes sense to talk about the global climate in this way?. It makes much more sense to talk about the climate of some particular place or area.
Like most warmunists, he’s only interested in those time periods that he can distort into supporting what his high priests tell him to believe.
Bringing up any other time period is just disinformation.
The real question is why people are responding to him in the first place.
He is a flame warrior with the obvious intention of being disruptive and controlling the dialog for his own ego augmentation and entertainment.
To me its fun to play with him. If it weren’t I wouldn’t comment on his inanities.
To me its fun to play with him. If it weren’t I wouldn’t comment on his inanities.
Go for it. As long as you are laughing, all is well.
Need to take a specific location. Paul Homewood has posted extensively about the UK, so lets use that to answer.
The bottom line from memory from his posts is that in the UK winters have got a bit warmer, rainfall has stayed about the same, winds haven’t changed at all. Summers have not got hotter, contrary to press reports.
And, a very important parameter, variability, has not changed at all – that is, there is about the same amount of year to year variability in rainfall, temperature, storms as there always has been.
Paul doesn’t say this, but this is what you get from living on an island between a great ocean and a large continental mass, with a desert not too far away to the south, and the Arctic not too far away to the north, and a shifting jet stream bringing different weathers across in different years. Not to mention the unpredictable occasional long blocking highs to the southwest.
Does that answer your question?
So no change except for warming. So anyone who denies the warming would prove me correct
“So no change except for warming.”
Well done, you are finally getting there !
And I bet you couldn’t tell the difference between 14ºC and 15ºC without a thermometer.
I use those numbers because they are somewhere near the global average temperature.. ie rather chilly !
Eric, how would I know with specificity what you correct about? Is there any range of correctness in your question? You haven’t stated how much warming you are talking about nor how I could identify the person potentially in denial. Is the warming location specific, diurnal or cyclic? Does it considered humidity (enthalpy)?
The climate change rhetoric has changed quite a bit. Fifty years ago, climate scientists were raising alarms about the Earth going into another Ice Age, and were claiming humans were the cause.
Then the temperatures started warming so the climate scientists switched over to claiming humans were causing this warming.
There is no evidence that humans are causing ice ages or heat waves. None whatsoever. Anyone who claims there is, is just blowing smoke.
Or calling people ‘deniers’.
And still no response from you about how the climate has changed over the last 50 years?
See above…
No response above
I don’t think he is reading any posts. He has an opinion, a position, and he won’t read anything here because it might challenge that opinion and his religion.
The three monkeys (hear no evil, see…) never have to worry about their world view being challenged.
Poor little Eric, he actually thinks anyone cares about his little tantrums.
Eric Flesch??!! Weren’t you in Italian porn? In the seventies? ‘Cause your comments indicate you haven’t followed this subject since then.
You’re suffering from some sort of cognitive . . . no, I mustn’t say that, no matter how bloody glaringly obvious?!
99-100 change hands
There have been dozens of responses. As is usual for a warmunist, they can’t see anything that disagrees with what their high priests are telling them.
Eric, please specify the changing parameters you want me to describe. Climate is simply a statistical description of the meteorological properties of a specific region of Earth over a relatively long period. It is not a physical thing.
Which ice age has someone claimed was caused by humans? Or are you making up nonsense?
There was a mini mini ice age in the 60s and 70s….
There wasn’t. You are wrong
How do you know?
You should have used the magazine cover with the glaciers eating New York…but this will do.
Because I have taken time to learn
The problem is that nothing you have worked so hard to learn, is actually true.
Learn from what sources, Eric?
you quite obviously havent learned much then – you keep banging on about ‘climate’ and then just bang on about 1 or maybe 2 aspects of it. Climate is an absolutely colossal subject involving many known parameters and even more unknown. You continue to show your lack of intellect by refusing to engage with the many posters who have responded to you. Only a complete idiot would keep ‘denying’ that his question is being unanswered in this way, deliberately going out of your way to irritate genuine an knowledgeable posters – please crawl back inside your tin foil tent
Proof, Eric, proof. You need to supply proof to support your assertions.
In basically every part of the Arctic, and many other parts of the world, raw data shows that around 1960/70, particularly 1979, was the coldest period since the little ice age.
Even HadCrud data shows that in the 1930.40s the Arctic was warmer than the first decade or two of the 2000’s
Data from all around the world backs up this fact.
Here’s the U.S. regional chart (Hansen 1999) that clearly shows a large amount of cooling from the 1930’s to the 1970’s. About 2.0C+ worth of cooling.
As you can see from the chart, the late 1970’s were as cool as the period of the 1910’s, and climate scientists of the time were thinking the temperatures might be headed lower, and that’s why they were sounding alarms about a new ice age.
And keep in mind that regional charts like Hansen 1999, were all the climate scientists had to work with at the time. There were no “global average temperature” Hockey Stick chart distortions/lies at the time.
And all the regional charts from around the world have the same temperature trend as the U.S. regional chart. They all show about a 2.0C rise in temperatures from the early 1900’s to the 1930’s, and then a 2.0C cooling from the 1930’s to the late 1970’s, and then about a 2.0C rise in temperatures beginning in the early 1980’s.
This is all news to you, Eric?
Hansen 1999:
Please Tom , if you really want to be taken seriously… post the most recent version of this graph. It would be the honest thing to do.
No, there are no more honest graphs from NASA after 1999. That’s why I use this one.
You see, James Hansen being a True CO2-is dangerous Believer, thought that since CO2 was rising, the temperatures would continue to rise, but after 1998, the temperatures started cooling, much to Hansen’s chagrin, so he and the NASA Climate Team decided to start mannipulating the temperature record after 1998, and actually bastardized the temperature record to the point that they could claim that between 1998 and the year 2015, there were ten years in that time period that were the “hottest year evah!: Hotter than 1998, they claimed. Their bastardization even went so far as to claim that the heat was getting hotter with every successive year.
But if you look at the UAH satellite chart you will see that NO years between 1998 and 2015 were warmer than 1998. The UAH chart shows cooling going on during that time period.
So Hansen 1999 is the last honest regional temperature chart of the U.S. put out by NASA and NOAA.
Here’s the UAH chart. See how many years between 1998 and 2015,you can find that were warmer than 1998. There are none. NASA and NOAA are lying with statistics.
So, who is the dishonest one here? Me, or NASA and NOAA and every Climate Alarmist?
It’s not me.
The graphs from NASA are all pretty similar for all historic versions of their dataset:
Are you sure you don’t fixate on the 1999 version because you perceive it as reinforcing your prejudices?
And 1979 is the date Drs. Christy and Spencer at the University of Alabama at Huntsville (UAH) began making satellite measurements of atmospheric temperatures, now at version UAH6. It is telling that the UAH6 warming rate over the past 46 years (almost 50 years, half a century) from the coldest period in the 20th Century is only about 0.16 C/decade during a period of cyclic upswing in global temperatures.
There is no global climate crisis.
There was a 1960s/70s scare that the planet was descending into a mini ice age.
From about 1945 to 1980 the temp went down slightly and CO2 went up 15% – explanation?
Trend in HadCrut from 1945-1970
The temperatures went down a *lot* during that period (see the Hansen 1999 chart just above), and you are correct that CO2 was rising continuously during that time.
The only chart that shows a “slight” cooling is the bastardized Hockey Stick global temperature chart.
That’s why Climate Alarmists like Eric deny that there was an “ice age” cool down scare in the 1970’s, because the bogus, bastardized Hockey Stick chart only shows about a 0.3C cooling.
Which is just another reason to reject the bogus Hockey Stick chart as representing reality.
Climate scientists of the 1970’s would not be wringing their hands over a 0.3C drop in temperatures. If that were the case, they should be having fits over the 0.5C cooling since 2024.
No, the climate scientists were ringing their hands over the 2.0C+ drop in temperatures since the 1930’s.
When it comes to ignorance, there are none prouder than poor Eric.
You mean you don’t know this story? You need to study climate history a little bit more before pontificating on whether humans are causing the Earth’s climate to change.
Your not knowing about the “Ice Age Cometh?” predictions says you don’t know much about the Earth’s climate or what humans had said about it in the past.
You are out of your league. Get educated.
The quote is actually “… another Ice Age …” and climate scientists at the time were claiming humans were driving the cooling trend. Like today, they were taking a relative short period of cooling in a cyclical temperature trend and extrapolating it unreasonably. Only now the profiteers are calling it a dangerous warming trend.
Are you drinking or taking some drug, Eric?
Eric, what you are engaged in is a complex begged question. So if it is warmer than 1850, then we must endorse renewables and socialism?
Analogous to asking why you beat your wife.
So you are claiming it is not warmer?
Duuh! Can you read?
It is warmer than 1850, but the cause is questionable, and assuming that wind and solar done only by formerly prosperous Western countries will have an effect on the temperature, let alone head off disaster, is ludicrous.
Which of you dresses up like Naomi Oreakes, and who wields the whip?
It has to be a bot
It has to be a bot
The quality of the trolls around here has been steadily declining. So far I think this is the worst.
Yeah, remember that Australian woman? She was comedy gold – invoking Dunning-Kruger and then leaving without ever knowing. I think Eric might be operating under a false flag, making alarmists appear to be extraordinarily stupid.
A real headbanger!
Eric reminds me a bit of the old (mid-60s?) ELIZA early natural language simulator. Though last time I tried it, ELIZA held a better conversation with better logic.
Ouch!
I think he is asking if its warmer than in 1975. Its not clear where he is asking this about. He probably wants to know is the planet warmer than in 1975. To which the correct response is, yes, probably a bit.
But is it warmer in Britain than it was in 1976? No. definitely not, that was a scorcher. It probably is warmer than it was in 1970 however. He can go look it up if he really wants to know, and he will find that the British climate is marked by strong fluctuations.
Take any different 50 year period, and you will get a different answer. Or take a different period, 49, 51, 61 years for instance, and you’ll get a different answer.
Nothing much going on. Just waiting for the next unexpected blizzard in February and March. They come around about every 50 years… Like the heat waves in July and August. Or the cold wet summers which also happen every decade or so.
Michel, I thing there was someone who made graphs of temperature trends over different periods. Does anybody remember that WUWT edition?
Is this what you are referring to?:
I think Britain has a unique climate and some of its records should be taken with a grain of salt.
The true global temperature trendline is found in the original, regional surface temperature records from around the world. They all show it was just as warm in the recent past as it is today, even with more CO2 in the air today. They all show significant cooling during the 1970’s.
I’m reminded of the anecdote about the temperatures in 1936, in the United States. It turns out that the summer of 1936, was a record-setting hot spell, followed by record-setting cold temperature the following winter.
The span of 1850 to 1880 was the coldest in the 19th century. Funny that it was chosen as the baseline.
It is not warmer than 1934. In fact it is much cooler.
Yes, it is also currently cooler than the high points of 2024, 2016, and 1998.
This year was one of the mildest summers I have experienced here in Oklahoma. We have not had a temperature 100F or higher the entire summer. We have hovered around 98 and 99 degrees, but no 100F yet, and it doesn’t look like we are going to get any, as the temperatures have started their late-summer cooling.
The Tulsa meteorologist said the temperature record shows that there have been eight years in recorded history where the temperatures did not reach 100F. She didn’t give the years this happened but I don’t think it has happened in my lifetime. I don’t remember any summer here that didn’t have a spell of 100F+ temperatures.
She also said the record for 100F or above temperatures for Tulsa was 25 days in a summer. She didn’t name the year but I suspect that occurred during the 1930’s.
I think one reason we have not gone over 100F is because of all the rain we have had this year. It’s just too humid to get us over the 100F mark. The heat indexes are running at 105 to 109, so, if we didn’t have this moisture, then 105 to 109 would be the actual air temperatures.
There’s no evidence that it is caused by CO2. Especially since none of the other 5 warm periods since the end of the Holocene Optimum were caused by CO2. Neither was the Holocene Optimum itself.
LOL, now you make clear you are full of _____ !
You have been told several times now that it has been warming, this blog shows that it is warming in the right sidebar.
Why not stop being an idiot!
Eric just wants to label people [Holocaust] deniers.
Today is not warmer than the 1930’s. There is a lot more CO2 in the air today than in the 1930’s, but it is no warmer today than in the 1930’s. That tells me that CO2 has had no observable effect on temperatures.
In fact, today, it is cooler than it was in 2016 or 1998, even though CO2 concentrations continue to rise.
A warming climate during an INTERGLACIAL period in the midst of an ICE AGE is *NOT* a “problem.” The reverse would be.
So what’s your point? The usual argument from ignorance, i.e. “we can’t figure out what else it might be, so it must be our pet hypothesis?”
Atmospheric CO2 has never been empirically shown to “drive” anything, and until you can explain where its imaginary “climate driving power” was when the Earth experienced GLACIATION with TEN TIMES today’s atmospheric CO2, you’re nothing but a secular religion zealot.
None.
It hasn’t changed over the last 50 years.
“How has the climate changed over the last 50years?”
Perhaps you can tells us.. apart from a slight beneficial warming.
Perhaps you could also note the massive benefits over the last 100 years from the advent of the use of fossil fuels.
Did you know that your whole existence is totally reliant on the use of fossil fuels.
Did you know that your whole existence is totally reliant on the use of fossil fuels.
So is his ability to post.
It is getting better.
They’re not science deniers. Most have considerable science education. They are denying that any changes are indicating an emergency or potential catastrophe. But that difference is too much for your childish brain.
Answer your own question, vague and meaningless as it is.
Many people. Give us the list.
And since you can’t, you deflect.
Science and observations show that globally it is slightly warmer (mostly at night, in the winter and at higher latitudes) and wetter than it was about 50 years ago. As affirmed by the 2021 UN IPCC Sixth Assessment Report (AR6), Working Group One (WGI) [the Scientific Basis Section], Chapter 12, Table 12.12 extreme weather including hurricanes, major storms, flooding, extreme heat, drought and wildfires have not increased in frequency, duration nor intensity over the past 120+ years and are not expected to in the foreseeable future.
Why don’t you tell me what has changed for the worse in the last 50 years? Please provide some scientific proof of your assertions.
How about how Climate Changed over the 20th century + a bit more.
Here is the map with Major Köppen type has changed at least once in 30 years during the period 1901-2010.
In graph form for the changes. A & C have more life, i.e. Good – B Dry (includes cold dry) is still better than D (Snow) and E (Polar) i.e. Bad.
So Good Areas, less than 1/2 percent and Very Bad Polar down 3.5% vs Just Bad Dry up 3% & Snow down 1.5%. Don’t see much Catastrophic going on.
Why would you expect a little child like Eric to abide by the same rules it demands of others?
Mr Meat is a professional querulant. Just ignore.
Oh look, someone in this thread who says the climate isn’t in flux. Proving your nonsense false
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2025/08/18/activists-run-to-federal-court-to-try-to-ban-official-us-government-report-that-blows-holes-in-settled-climate-science-claims/#comment-4107490
Another post saying the climate is not in flux
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2025/08/18/activists-run-to-federal-court-to-try-to-ban-official-us-government-report-that-blows-holes-in-settled-climate-science-claims/#comment-4107471
Actually, it says nothing of the kind. It just shows that the dire predictions of apocalypse have all failed to happen.
And CliSciFi climate models are bunk.
Irony alert! Hypocrisy alert!
Move to high ground NOW.
The only “Deniers” here are those who deny that “CliSy Inc.” have been lying to us for the last 50 years or so.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/failed-prediction-timeline/
Yeah, those Leftist shit storms and floods are the only climate metric getting worse.
From post:”Deniers like Chris have never taken time to learn about climate…”.
From this I take it that you have taken the time to learn about the climate. Please regale us with your degrees in climate science or what ever you have so we can grasp the wisdom of your words.
I am pretty sure calling people names is not endearing so I would recommend you stop that.
You Climate Liars can dish it out, but can’t take it, huh?
cry harder Bruce
Climate Liar says what?
Cry harder bruce
Bruce is laughing, not crying.
Give it a rest!
He’s hoping that if he posts enough, he will get an extra cookie at nap time.
Eric Flesch, assuming you are not a bot (which is improbable, but polite), what are you trying to achieve here?
So what did you come here for? And why did you repeat the question about the last half century? Which was answered directly and by its significance.
I am genuinely curious.
What are you trying to achieve here?
My fellow Courtney: The lack of a reply here tells us what we need to know re: this commenter.
Paul refuses to teply
Mr. Flesch: “Refuse” is such a strong word. Let’s just say that several commenters have pointed out that you act like a child at bedtime, and my grandkids just reminded me that not every question gets a reply with young children.
It’s hilarious that you think you accomplished something here. You’re a bigger chump than Steve Mosher.
Paul has replied. Your problem is he’s not saying what you want to hear.
Now I’m sure you are drinking, Eric.
People here deny the climate has changed
That is just a LIE.
The only real change has been a slight warming due to El Nino events.
There is no evidence that human released CO2 has anything to do with it.
You have yet to present anything to show that there is.
Your comments remain totally empty of anything resembling facts or science.
And when backed into a logical corner, just go back to the original lie and pretend that nothing has happened.
You have yet to provide any evidence to support your claim that outside of a tiny bit of warming, there have been any changes to climate.
Comparing anyone who expresses doubts about Climate Change to neoNazi historical fabricators is vile. Are you a follower of Trofim Lysenko?
you are always thinking about being a Nazi
I know history, which evidently you do not.
You are the one using the word “denier”.
A word you are totally incapable of backing up with any facts.
I guess they haven’t gotten to basic logic in whatever grade you are in.
you are always thinking about being a Nazi
Always? That is too easy to disprove.
“It’s hard to believe anyone is dumb enough to fall for this propaganda.”
If you’re talking about the “climate crisis” propaganda, then yes.
So now call out the Green Blob for their slurs on people who are sceptical of man-made global warming.
I’ll bet you don’t.
Chris Morrison is male, or was that deliberately trying to besmirch his character?
You intentionally ignore the main point. The court is not equipped to decide matters of science, regardless of what you believe. The process of science is to publish one’s findings, experiments, etc and to put it out in front of the rest of the world for examination by other scientists.
To deny publishing the report through the court system is to admit that you have lost the argument.
Michael Mann refuses to report his data, algorithms etc to support his hockey stick claims.
Dr Phil Jones in the climategate emails says (paraphrasing) “Why should I show you my data when you just want to find something wrong with it?”
Al Gore etc predicted an ice free Arctic Ocean, and no snow on Kilimanjaro. None of these predictions and others like it have come to pass.
As Richard Feynman said, ““It doesn’t matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are. If it doesn’t agree with experiment, it’s wrong.”
No one is arguing that climate is not changing. The arguable issue is whether man made CO2 is the control knob that increases warming, and the mathematical direct relationship that x amount of human caused CO2 will increase temperatures by y degrees. Most of the predictions made so far have been wrong, which as Feynman says, means the theory is wrong.
If you believe the report to be propaganda, read the report and present your science based rebuttal.
The reason a US court should reject this case is they you have separation of Church and State.
They are asking for a blasphemy law to be introduced. Experiments and evidence are irrelevant.
The truth is a matter of faith to these people.
You repeat nonsensical talking points
Yet another EMPTY comment from Eric.
I’ll repeat what Bill said.. although we expect absolutely nothing in your response…
“If you believe the report to be propaganda, read the report and present your science based rebuttal.”
You seemed to have sat on a hockey stick at some point and it caused the circular saw in your head to turn on without an off switch.
And once again, Eric evades rather than deal with the facts being presented.
And you repeat gobbledygook.
Speaking of knowing nothing about science and having to resort to childish name calling, here comes one of our favorite pinatas, Eric.
After thousands of hours studying, Climate Change, aka Global Warming, aka Climate Emergency, It is clear that that world is getting better. A very tiny bit warming and sea level, the biomass is getting greener, crop production increasing with no increase in severe weather. As good as it gets!
And you rise above the fray by not using the exact tactics you accuse the author of employing.
Hypocrit.
Yesterday, I recalled that a member of the Watts household, no less, was a card carrying member of the Union of Concerned Scientists.
Is Kenji still a member? I think we should be told…
If he is it only increases the hilarity of the organisation.
fact checkers…
Lets call them what they are: narrative compliance checkers. Take the BBCs queen of social media truths and conspiracy theories, Marianna Spring. She couldn’t even produce a CV without lying in it and getting caught out But her Trump expose was beyond parody…
“Yesterday the BBC’s “Disinformation Correspondent” Marianna Spring and Panorama revealed their top scoop: that “Donald Trump supporters have been creating and sharing AI-generated fake images of black voters to encourage African Americans to vote Republican“.
…
the nefarious deepfakes may not be the conspiracy Spring was looking for. The clearly-watermarked AI images of Trump with black Americans are the creations of a joke account whose Twitter bio states: “Documenting the history of the 45th President of the United States, Donald J. Trump (parody)“.
The BBC’s disinformation team must have been horrified to learn that American voters might be duped by tweets saying “Donald Trump was in fact the 4th wise man who brought Jesus gifts after he was born“, or he was “the first person to circumnavigate the Earth” in 1522, as well as starring in Ben-Hur.
https://order-order.com/2024/03/05/bbc-panoramas-disinformation-scoop-just-photos-from-twitter-parody-account/
Facta? Quorum facta? Whose facts?
I mean, they’re asking the scientists whose work is being cited if the claims made about their research are correct.
Because those reports are authored following a transparent framework involving hundreds or thousands of the scientists doing the research the assessments are synthesizing, not written under cover of darkness by five randos brought in specifically because of their contrarian viewpoints.
“five randos”
Kindness, tolerance and respect repackaged by the righteous as malice, bigotry and contempt.
Yet IFIAK, the IPCC’s SPM document is ‘negotiated’ behind closed doors and published before the main report is released, the report having been ‘updated’ to agree with the SPM. Transparent? Nah!!
What you’re voicing is a pervasive falsehood about the IPCC process.
The SPM is drafted by scientists after the main report is finished – its content is distilled from the main chapters. After this draft is complete, the scientists who authored the SPM meet with government representatives for an approval session, where each line of the SPM is carefully reviewed. Changes can only be made with the scientists’ agreement, and adjustments to the main report are limited to keeping wording consistent, never to alter the underlying science.
All drafts of the report are archived and publicly available, so if governments were actually rewriting the science, it would be visible. The record just shows editing for clarity and consistency, there is no misrepresentation or distortion of the science in the main report chapters.
This is, to put it mildly, quite different than what the authors of the DOE report have done. There was zero engagement with the scientific community at all, no public transparency into the process, and no formal review process. As the Carbon Brief analysis shows, there is egregious misrepresentation of the research being assessed all throughout the report.
You’ve become a one-trick pony. Appeal to Authority after Appeal to Authority. Post some of YOUR deductions hypothesis if you want to make decent posts.
He knows what he is told to know and he would never question his high priests.
“The SPM is drafted by scientists”
That is wrong.. SPMs are drafted by activists and political hacks.
The fact you don’t realise that Carbon Briefs is “activist propaganda central” shows how little awareness you have of reality.
The report tells the facts, as they are, without all the stupid model-based nonsense that passes as science in “climate non-science”
And it is obvious that you cannot counter any of those facts.
The 5 people involved ARE part of the real scientific community…
… sad for you they are rational truthful scientists, and not your usual rabid disingenuous activists.
And yet, the SPM always distorts the true findings in an alarming way, which is evidence that you are plain wrong on this matter.
The alarmist ‘scientists’ with political agenda distort this message to be even more alarming, to support their political agenda.
The media then distort that message to be even more alarming, to get clicks and sell advertising.
Social media then distorts this message, to get more engagement, and sell more advertising.
You merely perpetuate the process, being idiotically useful. To sell advertising. Well done
Can you point to specific instances where the SPM misrepresents the science in the main chapters?
IRRIC (go look it up for yourself) it was (in 1992?) American politicians that pushed forward that jackass Santer to rewrite the draft summary such that it was just the opposite of the original draft such that summary said they had detected Man’s impact on the climate.
Charles, thanks for detailed comment about Santer, et al, below.
Totally false.
IPCC rules state if the summary report disagrees with the science reports, the science reports are revised.
Only the political government representatives approve the summary report, line by line, and approval must be unanimous, per IPCC rules.
Please cite the exact language of this rule from the IPCC.
The fact that you don’t know this happens, means you have not been paying attention in class.
One way of avoiding the facts, hey. Or just use “denial”
For both of you, this happened once: The IPCC Second Assessment Report (SAR, 1995)—specifically Working Group I, Chapter 8—was the one whose scientific text was revised after the November 1995 Madrid meeting where the Summary for Policymakers (SPM) was approved. Edits were made subsequently to Chapter 8, a point highlighted in the ensuing Seitz–Santer controversy.
The science of the main chapters was not altered, clarification was added following discussion during the approval for the SPM. But this decision was not made by governments, it was agreed to by the scientists who authored the main chapters of the report, and they voiced support for the change. The “controversy” was entirely manufactured by Frederick Seitz.
It was a Clinton – Gore official that rewrote that paragraph.\
The scientists were very upset at the time.
Google has suppressed this.
Google has an agreement with the UN to promote UN climatology over everything else.
I do not have to prove anything to you. I do not owe you. You have no authority over me.
I refuse to dance to your fiddling.
“The dog ate my evidence.”
😆😅🤣😂
The IPCC’s scientific reports are “transparent?!” Comedy gold! They MODIFY the “scientific reports” when they don’t sufficiently support the “Summary for Policymakers” propaganda, WITHOUT the approval of the scientists.
And over the objections of the scientists and researchers who wrote the science reports.
A number of whom resigned over the practices of the political masters.
And once again, Alan claims that only those who agree with his high priests can be called scientists, and that anyone who disagrees with him must have been bought by evil somebodies.
All we need is for TFN to show up, and the pinata trinity will be complete.
I assume this was a carefully picked judge in MA.
I wonder how much USAID funding went to NGO’s pushing climate science, such as it is.
This is another Federal Swamp Creature that needs to be eliminated and the swamp drained.
“Follow the money” will almost always lead you to the bad guys who game the system to enrich themselves.
Finding out who is against transparency and openness where public monies are concerned is also a reliable guide to the scammers.
I have no skin in this game other than having watched the verbal duels for about 30 years trying to make sense of the claims. I have come to just this: if there is a relationship between carbon dioxide and the “global” temperature, then there should be a definitive mathematical formula to describe it which would enable us to predict world temperature for presentation in a table. That table of values should give everyone a good idea about when to get really worried. Right now, as I sit on my deck drinking coffee, an uptick of 2 parts per 10,000 hasn’t given me much to worry about. So, when I see that, I will decide what I think is important.
The 2 parts per 10,000 is not a common way of reporting CO2 concentration, so I looked for a graphic depicting this. The closest thing I found was a picture of a person suggesting he was taking 10,000 steps per day. [Yes, I know the 10k was a gimmick.]
When you return your coffee cup to your kitchen you will walk, perhaps 14 steps (give or take). To get to 10,000 steps, you will have to drink a lot of coffee.
About “climate change” – – –
In the past 80 years I have lived in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Georgia, Iowa, Idaho, and Washington State. Friends and relatives still live in all those places. No one has noticed a “climate change”. Hickory trees and Gray squirrels still are found in Pennsylvania, GA still has live oaks, and so on. Now, in WA State, I can walk out my driveway and look at Ponderosa Pines that are well over 100 years old. Vegetation “integrates” climate. There has been no change.
Small changes in atmospheric temperature do not change any place’s climate.
The UK has a ‘Marine Temperate Climate‘;
& when Stonehenge was built 5,000 years ago …
The UK had a ‘Marine Temperate Climate‘ (but, according to archaeological finds at the site), was several °C warmer than now.
Geography & planetary movements ( therefore our proximity to the sun ) are the main drivers of a climate. Water & water vapour act as the thermostat of earth.
Any ‘climate change’ is the long-term result of fluctuating weather patterns, NOT a cause.
The diurnal variation in temperature at most places on earth is many times larger than the tiny changes in average temperature that are maybe calculable but not noticeable in day to day life.
If there IS a criteria for silencing (so-called) scientists, it’s the ones who refuse to defend their position in open dialog/debate. The injunction should be in the other direction, that unless they are prepared to openly debate, they must remain quiet. Imagine the howl that would generate though, with cries of “censorship” and “stifling free speech”, etc.
Just as Trump is shaking out Nasa….
Bankruptcy update. When your country is scrabbling around for any spare money wherever it can find/tax it…
UK’s NASA Equivalent Splashes £120,000 on Environment Officers
While Elon Musk’s SpaceX Starship has just completed its ninth flight having already rescued NASA astronauts earlier this year, the UK Space Agency has been hard at work hiring climate change pen-pushers. Who’s surprised…
They’re advertising for an “Environmental Sustainability Lead” on £61,000 to busy themselves with “championing sustainability and the environment” by “reducing waste”, “improving biodiversity”, and “driving progress toward Net Zero” while “embedding long-term environmental change”. They’re also after an “Earth Observation Climate Services Lead” – also on £61,000 – to “oversee climate-related aspects” and brief ministers on “climate sustainability”. – Guido Fawkes
UK’s NASA equivalent? Yeah, right. More good news for the empty suit and that mandate…
ElectionMaps has dropped a fresh MRP and it’s nightmare fuel for LOTO. Their Nowcast model has the Tories scrapping just 35 seats, Labour languishing on 112, and the LibDems climbing to 77. Reform, meanwhile, storm ahead with a staggering 339 seats. A clear majority…. – Guido Fawkes
The only party against net stupid zero…
LOTO – Leader of the opposition.
And they ran out of Farage #10 shirts before I even knew they were on sale. The next election can’t come soon enough!
How long before it’s banned?
As usual Guido has blundered.
The UK has a First Past The Post electoral system. This is designed to empower voters, negatively.
It’s almost impossible to vote for who you want, but easy to vote out the one you definitely don’t want.
Farage’s latest vehicle is very polarising. It will not get many seats at the General Election. Although it might reach double figures – a 100% increase.
This is probably the most important question that needs to be answered by climate science.
Spending trillions to determine what direction we are going is worthless unless you know what direction you should be going.
Can anyone answer with a degree of specificity, whether we have passed the optimum temperature for the planet or if we are still approaching it?
The EPA must know this before deciding what is appropriate. Climate science should be able to provide a reasonable answer to this prior to decrying any increase in temperature.
Oh, now I see, this is where you got this silly talking point. I was surprised a bit because this was very different from your usual bs.
This is wrong even on its own right*. (* it means that it would be wrong even if there was an actual desired direction.)
Funny that you have no refutation at all! Tell us if the globe is approaching or gone beyond the best temperature for the globe and where your information came from.
Here is an article that examined many studies.
https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-identify-a-universal-optimal-temperature-for-life-on-earth
Show us your reference.
Refutation of your (incoherent) straw man?
Again, climate science is not very concerned about “the best temperature”. We now know that above a certain global average, certain places become uninhabitable. This is also true if the global average drops too much. So in this sense there’s a range of temperatures that are “optimal”. But the actual the problem at hand is the rate of change that is greater (I’ve checked it) by a factor of 50 than anything we could reconstruct in the past.
Besides being irrelevant to climate change, this is about ambient temperature, not global climate, you genius.
Well that was a load of gibberish.
Where has become uninhabitable? People tend to move to warmer areas because most of the plant is decidedly on the too-cold side of desirable.
Average global temperature is around 14-15 C.. try that without good warm clothing.
Cold deaths outnumber heat deaths by some 10 to 1.
The planet is NOT warming at a great rate, no matter what some scientifically illiterate child has been brain-washed to regurgitate.
In fact the only atmospheric warming in the last 46 years has been from totally natural El Nino events…
There is no evidence at all that humans have caused any warming in the last 46 years of reasonably consistent atmospheric temperature data.
Explain WHY the rate of change is a problem!
If the ΔT stopped tomorrow, what problems will have occurred?
You are a climate Luddite that expects pre-industrial global temp of 13°C (55°F) to be the optimal temperature, i.e., no change!
You insist on never showing any temperatures that illustrate your beliefs. Why is that? What IS the best absolute temperature? What IS the best ΔT? Stand up and tell us something concrete.
Explain WHY the rate of change is a problem!
What is the resolution of the current data vs the data we’re comparing against?
If I have temperature data at a resolution of 1 day, and then start collecting data at a resolution of 1 hour, I’m going to see a large rate change, but it’s meaningless.
The real problem is what the baseline value is. Is the change a ΔT of 1°C from 10, 13, or 16°C? Will 11, 14, or 17°C cause Armageddon? What temperature will reduce the earth to charcoal?
You don’t even read well do you?
Exactly what is different from life on Earth and global climate?
You can’t even make a cogent argument. If 20°C is not correct, the show a study that has a different calculation!
Delta T won’t “stop” tomorrow.
You genius, they were not talking about a global average.
No one claimed it was wrong. I claimed it was irrelevant even to your point.
As usual, you are unable to answer the question.
Really? Then why did you respond with, “We now know that above a certain global average, certain places become uninhabitable.” That appears to mention “global average”.
If you don’t know the answer, then why are you postulating that a temperature increase will make “certain places uninhabitable“? Did someone tell you it was bad? How do they know if they don’t know the optimum temperature either.
You don’t make a particularly good debater. I always tell kids don’t respond with something made up, IT WILL BITE YOU.
nyolci,
BTW, you have not answered my pointed questions that I asked. I’ll repeat them.
You insist on never showing any temperatures that illustrate your beliefs. Why is that? What IS the best absolute temperature? What IS the best ΔT? Stand up and tell us something concrete.
That was the response to another of your strawman issues… Good god, you cannot get right even one thing.
I said, they were not talking about a global average of 20C (or anything resembling a global climate). They were talking about a local temp, that’s why I wrote “You genius, they were not talking about a global average.”
What you demand (I’m not even sure because you are so incoherent in this regard) is the optimal temp for the earth, a global something. I reacted to that with this: “We now know that above a certain global average, certain places become uninhabitable.” It was part of a broader answer about how climate science is not very interested in this question apart from some broad results.
I’m not postulating anything. This is not even a postulate (look up the word, please). This is a result. A scientific result.
Temperature can reach above 50C for long periods (like multiple weeks), and either no water or too much water is present (ie. no land based life form can survive). This is the result. The Persian Gulf is one of these areas. The only other thing I can remember from this study was that a quite modest increase in the global temp is enough for this, like 2.5-3C.
So you admit that a global average ΔT is meaningless.
I notice you say “can reach”. The inference from this is that it has already occurred. What is your resource for this assertion?
postulate
verb [ I or T ] formal
uk /ˈpɒs.tʃə.leɪt/ us /ˈpɑːs.tʃə.leɪt/
Then you must have a resource for this postulate unless you are claiming to be originator of this basic principle.
Show your resource or you will admit by lack of evidence that you are making stuff up
It’s beyond me how you can interpret it this way. I’m not even claiming that delta T is “meaningful” (whatever the fokk that is supposed to mean), I’m claiming (as per relevant science) that the rate of change (ie. delta T per time period) is extremely big.
This is peak Gorman. How you can infer “it has already reached occasionally” from “it can reach if things keep on going in the current direction”?
Again, the mess in your head. Postulate is what you accept as true without formal proof in a given formal framework. In Physics these are some of the fundamental laws (like the law of energy conservation, and F=ma etc). You postulate the axioms of your mathematical model of physics. Of course you don’t postulate these out of thin air, these are observational (empirical) laws.
Most science is not concerned with this. What we have are results. Results are formal proofs inside these mathematical models (while most of the time most people don’t know this). 10N = 5 kg * 2 m/s^2 is, formally, a proof. Climate modeling is also proof process. The study I was talking about is a result, it’s certainly not a postulate.
Extremely big is not very scientific is it? Why don’t you define in a quantitative and scientific fashion. Something like:
(1°/13°)(100) ≈ 10% over 100 years.
I was not referring to any study. I was referring to you making an assertion with no proof from any reference. When you make an assertion in this manner, the implication is that you have personally done the expermentation to validate it.
Have you validated any of the climate models as being accurate? LOL
It is around 50 times bigger than anything that we can reconstruct for the last 400 million years, so the adjective “big” surely applies here, you genius.
Good god, not again… It was you who fokked this up previously, right? Or your husband? Can’t remember. Anyway, I guess 13C here was the global average 100 years ago, right? Because then 1/13 is not 10%, it’s approx 0.3%, right? Isn’t it shameful that you’ve made the same error?
Implications are not your strong point, apparently.
The Gorman is coming out again.
So you don’t know. That figures. A high schooler could do better.
See what I mean, you can’t even do percents correctly.
“50 times bigger than st” is obviously not “I don’t know”. But, genius, here’s the link: https://www.climatetown.news/cp/171575537
Good god, again. You never fail to fail. The change from 13C to 14C is not cc 10%. The zero celsius line here is just for human convenience. Hint, if you calculate the same in F and you get a different result, you should know you fokked it up. Temperature percentages should be calculated w/r/t the absolute zero (cc -273C).
You still don’t know how to %’s do you.
[(14 – 13)/13] × 100 = percent change. No need to use Kelvin since we are doing an interval.
What is the % increase going from 13 to 26?
I never thought I would have to explain this because this is so shameful to you. The formula above gives 7.7%. If you use the same temperatures but in Fahrenheit, you get 3.25%. Perhaps now you should feel a bit uneasy, right? And how about a change from 0C to 1C? That would be a pretty “big” one, right?
By a factor of 50?
You sure it is not 49.99999999?
At best, recent temporal resolution of paleontological temperature estimates is 20 years. Such resolutions quickly go up to 100 years and then, through the roof.
IIRC, a few comparisons of the global estimates of temperature cycles over the past 130+ years shows that the two earlier cycles of warming at a rate of increase of about equal to that of the current warming.
How is it wrong? Unless you are one of those religious types who feel that nature is sacred and must never change.
The original claims that “Spending trillions to determine what direction we are going“. It specifically talks about “determining“. If we don’t know a desired direction, does it mean that we should not try to determine what is going on? This is laughably anti-science and stupid. And it is beside the fact that we don’t spend trillions to determine it.
The whole CO2 based climate alarmism is laughably anti-science and stupid.
The world HAS wasted trillions to combat this farcical non-problem…
And because the whole premise is garbage, those billions will have absolutely zero effect on what doesn’t exist in the first place..
If the world is getting better, there is no need to fight the change.
That’s the point that worshippers of the holy models can’t seem to fathom.
He was talking specifically about “determining” not “fighting”. It might have been intended to be “fighting” but you deniers are exceptionally incoherent and convoluted both in your thinking and your self expression. I reacted to what was actually written, and I don’t think you can blame me for that.
As I thought, you are one of those religious nut jobs who believes that all change is bad and must be fought with every dime of other people’s money.
The fact is, we are not trying to determine what is going on.
The premise is CO2 causes warming and that disrupts the climate.
What if (a) CO2 actually causes warming and (b) we need a warmer planet?
Setting the goal is necessary. Going on some Quixotic Quest to Net Zero has a reality that it makes things worse.
Mr. letter-salad: My, the trolls here have hit the skids, don’t you think?
Not just letter-salad, but meaningless word-salad…
… obviously taking lessons from Kamala. 😉
I have to wonder if nyocli and AlanJ (and possibly others) are the same person with different login accounts.
Wrong, as always. By the way, how can anyone trust your judgement if you (regularly!) can’t get right such an elementary thing as my nick? I’m talking about a 6 letter word that is actually on the screen multiple times. (This is just an observation, I don’t give a fokk how you spell it.)
Funny to observe how a lost battle is fought on the most inconvenient ground and at the worst time. If there is one type of person who deserves to be called “denier”, it’s the one who closes his eyes to facts and reality.
To all ecotards reeking of desperation:
Your time is up and hopefully it stays that way. The US leads the way the way back to normality for the rest of the deluded western hemisphere.
One domino down (and it was about time) and all the others destined to fall as well, the sooner the better.
They should have titled the study “An Honest Review of the Impacts of Greenhouse etc. . . ” doncha think?
The district judge will give them the injunction. The Supreme Court will throw it out because the district court has no jurisdiction in the matter.
While the article suggests the intention of the law suit & some 10 questions by members of the ‘climate media cartel’ is to attack the DOE CDW its not, its to attack the Trump administrations attempt to use the report for overturning of the Endangerment Finding. And the reference to ‘absolutely ridiculous questions’ makes it seem like its a response to all 10, not just 2 rather childish questions.
And thus this post misses the more urgent issue, which is that even supposed ‘luke warmer’ climate scientists will be battling tooth & nail to uphold the Endangerment finding. Dr. Pelke Jr’s answers to some of the questions is going to be ripe fodder for the ‘climate media cartel’ in attacking the Trump administration, and its no surprise since he disagrees with any attempt to overturn it either on ‘scientific or legal grounds’ (here’s the relevant link to his opinion on that matter).
Dr. Pelke Jr’s bias towards wanting to maintain the ‘status quo’ is blatantly obvious in the link I provided arguing “Neither science nor law support rescinding the “endangerment finding”….”. And yet not a paragraph earlier he expressly noted the Supreme Court did NOT find that the EPA HAD to issue an ‘Endangerment finding’ specifically “It is important to note that the 2009 finding requires EPA only to consider implementing a regulatory response, and it does not dictate what that response must be.” but more to the point the EPA’s document removing the Endangerment finding is more explicit as to what the Supreme Court indicated ““We need not and do not reach the question whether on remand EPA must make an endangerment finding.” (II.B. Petitions for Rulemaking and Massachusetts v. EPA)…in other words there certainly IS a legal basis for removal of the Endangerment finding, indeed the opposite was/is true, there is no legal basis requiring an Endangerment finding.
As for the scientific basis for reversing it, his bias is even more telling, since the Endangerment finding was explicitly authored to apply to emissions of vehicles that is the only area that it is applicable & Dr. Pelke admits in the response to the ’10 questions’:
”
This is mathematically correct. Using conservative assumptions, new vehicles would emit at most ~3.3 billion tons of carbon dioxide to 2050, compared to projected global emissions, under a range of scenarios, of ~500 to 1,000 billion tons over the same period.2”
Fundamentally then, there is 0 ‘scientific basis’ for the Endangerment finding of any harm to ‘public health and welfare’ of emissions of Infrared absorbing gases from vehicles. Or reversing this, there ‘is a scientific basis for overturning the Endangerment finding’, plenty of them.
Long story short, the battle is far from over, if and when the reversal finally makes it out the other end of the legal sausage maker, the victory will be close to complete as trying to reengage the Endangerment finding by some potentially future Democrat controlled government will come up against even Dr. Pelke Jr. having to admit that there is ‘no scientifically measurable impact of reducing vehicle and engine emissions to 0’.
Your essential point is that there is great value in this litigation in that it will block any future political nonsense involving harmless trace gasses.
Note, the EPA was allowed/encouraged to expand the definition of Health Hazzard to embrace decades.
8 billion humans exhale nearly 3 trillion tons of CO2 each year.
The report is “widely disparaged” – no refutation of the facts however. Is their judicial authority for banning the report? (It is Boston, after all.)
The repetitive comments here from a certain poster is indicative how strongly some have fallen for the climate change is a problem.
No wonder some are fighting to have a science report banned.
If you can’t refute it, ban it!!!
Not one of the trolls has put forward anything that comes anywhere near a refutation of anything in the report.
Its as though they know it is totally factual, and are just yapping loudly in the hope someone will take notice of them.
The dog down the street does that too.
Through all of this, I am reminded in a bit of wisdom I picked up in the 1980s.
Never engage in a battle ot wits with the unarmed. He never knows when he has lost.
Another bit of wisdom I picked up in the 1990s.
Do not feed the trolls.