China Restricts Exports of Graphite, Key Mineral Used for Making EV Batteries

From NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT

By Paul Homewood

More bad news for the EV rollout!

https://www.investopedia.com/china-restricts-exports-of-graphite-a-key-mineral-used-for-making-ev-batteries-8364318

Do we really want to put our whole economy at the mercy of President Xi?

5 22 votes
Article Rating

Discover more from Watts Up With That?

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

95 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
October 24, 2023 2:43 am

Maybe because the price, 3 and 4 months ago, fell off a cliff and they need the money?
Nothing too sinister

quote:””Spherical natural graphite prices plunge to 11-year lows on more competition from synthetic graphite
https://www.fastmarkets.com/insights/spherical-natural-graphite-prices-plunge-11-year-lows

Good question about Xi but what are the options, Brandon, Trudope, BoJo, Macron……..
you. can. not. be. serious.

strativarius
Reply to  Peta of Newark
October 24, 2023 2:59 am

what are the options”

There are no options. Name a leader or party leader even, who isn’t for nut zero……

I wish there were one.

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  strativarius
October 24, 2023 3:21 am

Xi is net zero for thee, more coal fired power plants for me.

Bryan A
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
October 24, 2023 5:22 am

And pay me reparations for thine own coal usage.

Reply to  strativarius
October 24, 2023 5:35 am

Trump is not for Net Zero.

strativarius
Reply to  Tom Abbott
October 24, 2023 5:53 am

Yes, but he isn’t a leader or a party leader right now.

Reply to  strativarius
October 26, 2023 4:43 am

I would say Trump *is* the party leader.

Trump did not like one of the leading candidates for the new Speaker of the House, and very soon after Trump made his feelings known publicly about electing this guy to Speaker, the guy dropped out of the race.

The new Speaker of the House is an ardent Trump supporter.

The Democrats are calling the new Speaker “MAGA Mike”, trying to make out like Mike is an extremists.

My Question: What is extreme about Making America Great Again?

Democrats don’t want to make America great? It would seem so, since they are in the process of destroying this country right now with their insane ideology.

How about this for a new slogan: MDD: Make Democrats Disappear.

kwinterkorn
Reply to  strativarius
October 24, 2023 9:55 am

Trump.

Yeah, he’s a jerk. But his policies were good. We had peace and prosperity under Trump and he kept the Greens in retreat.

abolition man
Reply to  kwinterkorn
October 24, 2023 12:19 pm

I think that sleepwalking into WWIII is far better than having to put up with mean, self centered tweets! Orange Man Bad was even close to widespread peace in the Middle East with the Abraham Accords! I’m so thankful that Brandon has got that situation well in hand now; just like the way he handled the Afghan withdrawal and Ukraine!

Reply to  abolition man
October 26, 2023 4:52 am

“I think that sleepwalking into WWIII is far better than having to put up with mean, self centered tweets!”

I keep hearing people say this.

There’s no danger of a World War III at this time.

What we have are two regional wars going on, neither of which is based on the other.

The Ukrainians are keeping the Russians contained and are slowly pushing them out of Ukraine. The Russian nation is not under threat outside of Ukraine, so there is no need for Russia to use nuclear weapons.

The conflict in the Middle East will be restricted to that space and neither Russia or China will enter into this mess with any type of military action, so the action will be between the Mad Mullahs of Iran and Israel and the Untied States.

Russia and China are NOT going to interven if the United States starts bombing the Mad Mullahs.

World War III is a long way off.

The sooner the United States hits the Mad Mullahs of Iran, the better it will be. They are the cause of all these problems in the Middle East and it’s time for the U.S. to deal with these problematic individuals who have killed countless Americans over the years. The Mad Mullahs of Iran deserve every bad thing that happens to them.

Reply to  Tom Abbott
October 26, 2023 7:20 am

There’s no danger of a World War III at this time.

I’m not as certain as you are about this now that we (reportedly) have US engagement in the ME (Iran and/or Syria IIRC). I also worry more due to having a draft-age son.

The current administration’s weakness has emboldened bad actors everywhere. It wouldn’t surprise me to see more moves before next year. The question is, how far will it go.

Reply to  Tony_G
October 27, 2023 4:08 am

Well, I don’t think the U.S. bombing Iran proxies is going to escalate into anything having to do with Russia or China.

Russia likes buying attack drones from Iran and China likes buying oil from Iran, but neither of them are going to go to war with the United States over these kinds of things being cutoff from them, which they will, if the U.S. attacks Iran proper.

I understand your worry about your son. I have a grandson who joined the U.S. Marines about a year ago.

Biden’s weakness has definitely led to all this military action, imo.

Of course, we can’t say for sure, but I don’t think the attacks on Ukraine or the attacks on Israel would have taken place had Trump been the president.

Trump told all three of them what he would do if they crossed the line with him. Putin said, “You don’t really mean that, do you?

Trump said all he had to do was put a little doubt in their minds, and he did.

Joe Biden does not put doubt in our enemies minds. Our enemies have Biden pegged, he’s weak and in some instances, he is bought off, and all our enemies are taking advantage of the situation and causing a lot of death and destruction.

Biden has allowed Iran’s proxies to attack American bases in the region almost two dozen times, and only now, after the number of American casualties become public, that Biden takes moves to strike back at the attackers.

Joe Biden is the worst possible person to be presiding over this. He has caused the death and/or displacement of literally millions of people with his delusional view of the world and the policies he supports.

He threw the innocent people of South Vietnam to the wolves, and he allowed the Islamic Terror Army to run rampant throughout the Middle East, and then he turns around and throws the millions of innocent people in Afghanistan to the wolves.

Joe Biden and his delusional thinking has been a disaster for millions of people, and he’s not finished yet.

Joe Biden is the worst politician evah!

Reply to  Tom Abbott
October 28, 2023 3:32 am

And just to elaborate on the U.S. attack on the Mad Mullahs: The United States should not bomb Iran’s oil production facilities.

I think if the U.S. were to seriously hit the Mad Mullahs, that this would be the opportunity for the Iranian people to rise up and depose the Mad Mullahs from power. All the Iranian people need is a little encouragement from the United States, and they will rise up.

So, we don’t want to destroy Iran’s economy, just their military capabilities. We want to save the economy for the Iranian people and its new leadershp..

We don’t have to bomb Iran’s oil production facilites, we can accomplish the same thing by blockading Iran’s outbound shipments of oil.

The United States definitely should destroy all of the Mad Mullah’s nuclear weapons production facilities, along with it’s weapons manufacturing facilities.

The only problem is Joe Biden. After being attacked by Iran proxies for weeks and suffering almost two dozen American casualties, Joe Biden’s response was to bomb a couple of empty storage facilities, and the report is Joe made sure none of the terrorists involved were harmed, apparently so as not to anger the Mad Mullahs.

Obviously, the Mad Mullahs are not afraid of Joe Biden and Joe Biden *is* afraid of the Mad Mullahs.

But circumstances may force Biden’s hand, like it did with this latest bombing of Iranian proxies.

Biden isn’t looking for a fight, he is looking to run away from a fight. And it is obvious to anyone with any brains, including the enemies of the United States. Biden’s appeaser mindset emboldens the world’s dictators and bad actors.

Biden is the worst president evah!

traderjohn1968
Reply to  kwinterkorn
October 25, 2023 3:56 am

He is jerk that is true. His own worst enemy but he may be the only person alive that can bring America back from the edge of self-destruction.

Reply to  traderjohn1968
October 26, 2023 4:56 am

Trump is only a jerk to people who talk bad about him.

How do you treat people who talk bad about you in public?

If Trump is treated nicely, hes’ the nicest person you would ever want to meet.

Of course, being president makes Democrats not treat Trump nicely, so he tears their asses up. Deservedly so.

Richard Page
Reply to  Peta of Newark
October 24, 2023 3:44 am

Something else to consider – graphite is not only used in ev batteries but is also critical (unintentional pun, sorry) for nuclear reactors. If we want to expand the nuclear power plant fleet we’ll need a lot of that graphite. I wonder how much of China’s graphite production has been diverted to the 21 nuclear power plants they have under construction?

Scissor
Reply to  Richard Page
October 24, 2023 4:37 am

Some people still like to use a pencil once in a while. Pencils usually have a built in editor too.

michael hart
Reply to  Scissor
October 24, 2023 8:07 am

They have a Pencil Museum in Keswick, Cumbria.

Some years ago they re-opened some slate mining operations in Borrowdale, probably just for boutique value and the tourist industry.

Who knows, maybe they might reopen the Keswick graphite mines (but only for the above reasons)?

abolition man
Reply to  michael hart
October 24, 2023 12:22 pm

That’ll come in handy if Nut Zero ever gets fully implemented! School kids can go back to 19th Century reading and writing instruments as their modern devices will no longer be chargeable!

Scissor
Reply to  michael hart
October 24, 2023 1:18 pm

I bet they have a lot of pointed exhibits and maybe a few dull ones.

Denis
Reply to  Richard Page
October 24, 2023 6:13 am

Graphite is used as the neutron moderator in some high temperature reactors (such as Chernobyl) but there are few of these. It is not used in water moderated reactors such as PWRs and BWRs which are most common. Current designs of molten salt and sodium cooled reactors are to use graphite moderators but these are not yet in production and have engineering problems yet to be solved.

Richard Page
Reply to  Denis
October 24, 2023 12:24 pm

It’s not just used as a moderator, it’s also used in the construction process, as bricks or blocks, because of its purity, ability to withstand high temperatures and also its strength as a construction material. You may well find graphite even in a water-moderated reactor.

Reply to  Richard Page
October 24, 2023 1:15 pm

“. . . also its strength as a construction material.”

That’s news to me. Graphite, by its very nature (consisting of sheets of trigonal planar carbon with relatively weak van der Waals bonding between sheets) is consider to be a brittle material.

Richard Page
Reply to  ToldYouSo
October 25, 2023 3:15 am

It was news to me too but that’s what I understand. Apparently the brittleness isn’t an issue but the strength means that it can be used instead of structural metals in the reactor core.

commieBob
Reply to  Peta of Newark
October 24, 2023 5:42 am

Nothing too sinister.

Based on China’s past performance, I wonder about that. China has used its dominance in rare earths as a weapon in trade disputes with various nations including the USofA. link

The trouble for China is that its dominance in rare earths (and graphite) is because of processing, not mining. As such, it’s a temporary advantage until processing facilities can be built elsewhere.

Even the Democrats realize that we have to treat such commodities as strategic commodities. We’re going to have our own processing and we’re going to make sure it stays in business when China eventually starts exporting again.

MarkW
Reply to  commieBob
October 24, 2023 8:37 am

The US has a number of graphite mines. None are in operation at present, but this is mostly due to environmental opposition and costs. These mines could be reopened if there was sufficient demand.

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  MarkW
October 24, 2023 10:32 am

See my comment above.

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  commieBob
October 24, 2023 10:31 am

That is why they bought Biden. he has pulled the plug on two copper mines already. The money they gave him was their best investment yet.

Sean2828
Reply to  Peta of Newark
October 24, 2023 5:43 am

I suspect the only reason Xi is restricting graphite is because China is the lowest cost producer and its a way to protect the Chinese battery producters. Graphite can be made by pyrolysis of certain organic materials but it takes a lot of energy. The US has cheap enough energy that it should be able to manufacture and backfill any supply issues from China, it just has to be set up or re-activated. The danger for a domestic manufacturer is that China can change its mind and make the domestic manufacturer uncompetitive in an instant.

commieBob
Reply to  Sean2828
October 24, 2023 9:36 am

Indeed.

There is a mechanism to provide graphite producers with some comfort. The Strategic Materials Protection Board has the responsibility to “recommend a strategy to the Secretary to ensure a secure supply of materials designated as critical to national security;”

Until the Soviet Union failed, the board was a big deal. Then some folks got the idea that history was over and we weren’t likely to get into a war. Recent events prove them wrong. Ergo, strategic materials are still important.

barryjo
Reply to  commieBob
October 24, 2023 9:49 am

You mean like the Strategic Petroleum Reserve?

michael hart
Reply to  Peta of Newark
October 24, 2023 8:01 am

Graphite can be produced anywhere. It’s a simple business opportunity for someone in India.

Ron Long
October 24, 2023 2:55 am

This headline almost gave me a panic attack, as all but one of my golf clubs have graphite shafts. So, off to investigate graphite, with surprising results. Like, there is more graphite in an EV battery than lithium, and graphite can be man-made, and Tesla buys its graphite from Mozambique. A smooth transition to other sources is not only possible, but underway, leaving sufficient natural, long-fiber, graphite for use only in golf clubs and fishing rods. Who needs EV’s anyway (except for golf carts)?

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Ron Long
October 24, 2023 3:23 am

Golf carts. Bingo. That is what they are, even the fanciest Mercedes BEV. Golf Carts.

Scissor
Reply to  Ron Long
October 24, 2023 4:46 am

I use graphite rods sometimes as a guiding tool in glass blowing as it doesn’t stick to glass and amazingly, even at hydrogen oxygen flame temperatures, it doesn’t ignite. If one sets the flame tip right on it, it emits bright light and the surface roughens and sort of dusts off, but it still doesn’t burst into a flame.

I use dark green UV goggles so it’s hard to describe the color of it at high temperatures. I think some of the bright light from burning lithium ion batteries is due to graphitic carbon emissions.

abolition man
Reply to  Scissor
October 24, 2023 12:26 pm

Scissor,
Sounds fascinating! Is there any chance of some photos falling into the comments section?

Scissor
Reply to  abolition man
October 24, 2023 1:32 pm

Here’s a good video made by a professional scientific glass blower. He uses graphite tools throughout but at about 2:40 briefly describes their use.

abolition man
Reply to  Scissor
October 24, 2023 3:12 pm

Thanks, Scissor; that’s a fascinating video! It reminds me of the glass flower exhibit I saw as a child that completely mesmerized me!
Glass blowing; a true blend of art and science!

Reply to  Ron Long
October 24, 2023 6:38 am

Break out the bamboo fly rods!

Reply to  rocdoctom
October 24, 2023 4:31 pm

G’Day rocdoctom,

Break out the bamboo fly rods!”

But first you have to earn a PHD in “Advanced fly tying” from a reputable university.

strativarius
October 24, 2023 2:57 am

“Do we really want to put our whole economy at the mercy of President Xi?”

We don’t, but they do. And as the old song has it…

“Forward!” he cried from the rear, and the front rank died
And the general sat, and the lines on the map, moved from side to side

(Us and Them, Pink Floys, DSOM, 1973)

strativarius
Reply to  strativarius
October 24, 2023 2:57 am

Floyd….

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  strativarius
October 24, 2023 3:22 am

If the Big Guy gets paid, that is what is important.

Scissor
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
October 24, 2023 4:53 am

Michelle Obama squeezes Xi’s tiny right hand until he pays up.

kwinterkorn
Reply to  strativarius
October 24, 2023 10:00 am

Sounds like both Putin and Zelensky

October 24, 2023 3:09 am

Its not going to work, is it?

Its going to be impossible to build enough cars to maintain EV sales at present ICE levels because of raw material shortages. The ones that get made are going to cost 1.5 to 2x ICE prices. Then there is the used market. The batteries are the biggest cost component, and how do you know what state they are in? Used ICE prices fall very fast, but with that hanging over you they will not seem cheap. Expect major buyer reluctance.

Then there is the usage pattern. Range is far lower, refuel times are 5-10 times as long. Even with fast charging, they are far longer, and that destroys the batteries. So they will simply be unusable for some uses.

People say about this last point that most trips are short. Yes, most are, but the ability to make the minority of longer trips is a lot of the reason why people buy ICE cars at present. The perceived value proposition of buying a strictly local runabout is very different from that of buying a current ICE car.

Then there is insurance. Even if you can buy one, get your use pattern right, increasingly you won’t be able to afford to insure it, if you can even find an underwriter. And increasingly, with the fires, even if you get it insured, there will be restrictions on where you can park it, which will affect usage.

I do not think that running cities as we do now with the total domination by cars and trucks is the answer. Its people endlessly driving at speed through living neighborhoods in order to get to someplace else, and destroying quality of life as they do it. It does need a rethink. But that is a rethink of the car and what our priorities are, its not a matter of the particular technology of the car.

Its impossible to believe that trying to just carry on as now while replacing ICE with EV is going to solve that problem. The idea that its going to reduce global emissions is also a fantasy, it depends on the idea that you can double or triple electricity demand, while at the same time converting generation to wind. Pure fantasy.

What will happen if political leaders carry on insisting on the conversion? The most obvious likely outcome is a great reduction in car sales, ownership and use. And that, that will have collateral consequences for social and economic life which have never been seriously looked at. They will be huge. They will probably not fully arrive for 10 years after the new ICE ban date, because people will just drive their old cars into the ground. But the effects of falling new car sales will make themselves apparent much sooner. Expect political fallout, too.

Richard Page
Reply to  michel
October 24, 2023 5:10 am

This is by design, not unintended consequence; the UN wants to reduce private car ownership and the numbers of cars on the road. This will not end well.

michael hart
Reply to  Richard Page
October 24, 2023 8:13 am

It’s not just the UN.

Lots of the planet-savers have for many decades thought we should return to living in mud huts, selling candles at WOMAD festivals, and painting our faces with woad.

Reply to  michel
October 24, 2023 5:12 am

The ecoloons don’t want to replace existing ICE vehicles with EV on a 1-for-1 basis, they want to force people away from personal car ownership.

Bryan A
Reply to  michel
October 24, 2023 5:32 am

Blame Michelin…
They wanted to sell more tires so they instituted the restaurant guide such that people would get out, travel more and use up their tires. And it worked. We’ve acclimated to getting out and doing things as a result.

Reply to  Bryan A
October 24, 2023 5:58 am

Blame? or do you mean, thank Michelin… and Ford, Benz, Daimler, Chevrolet and Dodge brothers, Agnelli and so on for the gift of cars!

Bryan A
Reply to  PCman999
October 24, 2023 6:29 am

But it was Michelin that placed the notion in everyone’s head to travel greater distances so as to make their tires wear out faster

MarkW
Reply to  Bryan A
October 24, 2023 8:44 am

If people didn’t discover that they liked eating out, then they wouldn’t have continued to do so.
Michelin may have planted the seed, but it was the people who decided to do it, and continue doing it.

Reply to  Bryan A
October 24, 2023 12:55 pm

The tire companies use Carbon Black to make their products last longer and handle better, among other things.

Back in the day (early 80’s) I went to a client who manufactured Carbon Black. They used electric arc discharge with graphite electrodes to essentially generate extremely pure black soot. They needed a way to communicate the results over their disparate global networks and our software provided that solution.

Reply to  Yirgach
October 24, 2023 1:25 pm

Tire manufacturing is very competitive. No company would want their product to under perform a competitor at a particular price point.
The wear out faster notion doesn’t make any sense.

Richard Page
Reply to  Bryan A
October 24, 2023 12:28 pm

Sarc tag Bryan, remember the sarc tag!

Reply to  michel
October 24, 2023 6:54 am

Agree Michel – battery cars, like heat pumps, intermittent power generators, eat bugs instead of steak, cut fertilisers etc, we’re always a fantasy project to transfer wealth from the masses to the elites – shelf life over

traderjohn1968
Reply to  michel
October 25, 2023 4:04 am

The government wants us using public transportation, all the easier to control the plebs. That goes for housing as well. Totalitarianism in America isn’t she beautiful.

Walter Sobchak
October 24, 2023 3:20 am

How is the Big Guy going to get paid?

strativarius
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
October 24, 2023 3:47 am

Enquiries to Sam Bankman-Fraud….

Scissor
Reply to  strativarius
October 24, 2023 5:57 am

The corruption is so pervasive, it’s almost as if it’s everywhere.

Richard Page
Reply to  Scissor
October 24, 2023 12:30 pm

It’s not here, I can tell you! I wish it was, I could do with some of it in my wallet right now!

Reply to  Walter Sobchak
October 24, 2023 6:56 am

They will think of another scam, don’t worry

abolition man
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
October 24, 2023 12:29 pm

He’s already received his cut of that particular grift. NEXT!!

michael hart
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
October 25, 2023 4:47 pm

Robert Barnes says there are two rules:
1) “Never in writing”
2) “Always in cash”.

It is very very hard for law enforcement to (legally) catch organisations and people that don’t break a few simple rules.

Mississippi Burning is a great film to reinforce this point in a rather disturbing way.

Maybe the internet and cell phones will change this.
The explosion in cell phone use across the world has been accompanied by a distinct lack of increased videos of UFO’s and their alien pilots. It is difficult to believe that the UFOs choose to only turn up and crash in the desert States of the USA.

October 24, 2023 5:34 am

From the article: “Do we really want to put our whole economy at the mercy of President Xi?”

Our economy already is at the mercy of President Xi.

Xi is getting his money’s worth out of Joe Biden. Instead of securing our supply lines, Biden is relaxing restrictions on Chinese companies.

October 24, 2023 5:46 am

I have a question about EV horsepower.

I assume that the more horsepower an EV has, the more electricity that motor draws to produce that horsepower.

I saw an advertisement for an EV the other day claiming the EV could go from zero to 60mph in three seconds and the EV produced about 500 horsepower.

Firs of all, who really needs to go from zero to 60 in three seconds?

If the EV had a 300 horsepower motor it could probably go zero to 60 on about six seconds, which is about average for a high-performance car.

So how much more range would a 300 horsepower motor give you than would a 500 horsepower motor.

Since the 300hp motor draws less current (I assume) that would extend the range of the EV, which today is a big drawback to getting one.

Why aren’t car companies doing this? Am I looking at this the wrong way?

Reply to  Tom Abbott
October 24, 2023 5:55 am

I don’t think it works that way, the rapid 0-60 has for to do with torque at a standing start in the electric motor vs ice which needs a clutch or torque converter because of the torque issue.

Reply to  John Oliver
October 24, 2023 6:02 am

Or it could just be right now most EVs are marketed to high end buyers in US for now

Reply to  John Oliver
October 24, 2023 9:11 am

The air resistance and rolling resistance of the average car only require about 5-8 KW of power input to maintain a speed of 100 kph. The high engine horsepowers manufacturers claim are a result of the short burst of energy required to get the vehicle up to speed.
This is one of the available advantages of hybrid vehicles… Small ICE engine for backup charging and cruising, yet high torque electric motors for acceleration and regeneration, smaller battery for EV mode….the advantages of hybrids have not been sold well….

Scissor
Reply to  Tom Abbott
October 24, 2023 6:20 am

The capability for such acceleration is desirable from the performance aspect, think high end sports car. I’d like to have that power, but a problem is that performing such accelerations degrade battery life disproportionally.

Anyway, you’re looking at it correctly as it’s about tradeoffs and the sheeple are not always the best judges and politicians are not always the best masters.

Auto companies want to make a profit. In the past, that meant selling cars for a profit. Musk has figured out how to mine subsidies that changes the formula, one which Ford and others fail at.

In my mind at least, from a technical perspective, small EVs designed for city use, short commutes make sense. Kind of in line with your thinking. And hybrids for those with longer haul needs should be added to the mix.

MarkW
Reply to  Tom Abbott
October 24, 2023 8:55 am

Like lead footing in an ICEV, lead footing in an EV is wasteful of energy. Resistive losses are I**2 * R.

If you double the current through the motor, the amount of energy lost to internal resistance goes up by 4. There is internal resistance all the way from inside the battery, through the wiring to the motor itself.

This also means that the faster you drive, the hotter the battery and the motor will get and the more energy you will burn per mile.

The three largest differences between a 300hp motor and a 500hp one are that the 500hp one will weigh more, take up more room and have slightly greater internal resistance.

For the most part, horse power is determined by the amount of current passing through the motor. The size of the motor itself doesn’t matter much, it will take pretty much the same amount of energy to go 60mph, regardless of whether the motor in your car maxes out at 300hp or 500hp.

MarkW
Reply to  MarkW
October 24, 2023 12:15 pm

Another point is that you can get more horsepower out of a smaller electric motor, at least for short periods, by pumping more current through it, but you risk burning it out.

October 24, 2023 5:55 am

“As EV demand is soaring world-wide” Pure hyperbole. Much of the world has never seen an EV.

The actual plan is to make driving a subscription service, like cable TV. You buy a basic membership and then pay for the use of a car based on its luxury status. People will love it. No maintenance, no cleaning, no car wash. It will be more expensive, though. But that’s a small point.

Scissor
Reply to  general custer
October 24, 2023 6:05 am

I cut Mr. Wilowski a break because a picture of him shows him to be a little kid. That said, it could be that the market has mostly run out of early EV adopters that have more money than brains.

Unfortunately, that doesn’t stop the former and latter from attaining high level positions where they can do much damage.

October 24, 2023 6:49 am

I could get some utility out of a sorta high end road worthy golf cart. I ordered some plans from PM in the 70s to convert a Bug to electric. Used a used jet starter motor and a bigger batt box under the seat and you could add a batt in the trunk for more range. Never got around to building it.

Reply to  John Oliver
October 24, 2023 7:00 am

But in the end my conclusion was the same as it is now. Why bother? If I want economy I can pick up any number of Jap econo box ICE cars that sip fuel and have more versatility for peanuts.

Reply to  John Oliver
October 24, 2023 7:01 am

Used

Reply to  John Oliver
October 27, 2023 4:22 am

Somewhere aroung that time I had the idea of building an electric pickup truck. I was going to put lead-acid batteries underneath the pickup bed, and I think I could have gotten about 70 miles on a full charge.

I never got around to it, either.

I saw a few designs for this kind of vehicle. The one I liked most was where they rigged the pickup bed so it could be raised like a dump truck bed and give you easy access to the batteries underneath.

Seventy miles range would have gotten me to the grocery story and back. 🙂

Reply to  Tom Abbott
October 27, 2023 4:29 am

My engineer uncle built himself an electric car back in the 1950’s.

He liked to tinker with things.

October 24, 2023 6:51 am

Great news – China looking after western car drivers by ensuring they can’t get spontaneously combusted in a useless battery car
A Nobel prize if ever

Reply to  Energywise
October 24, 2023 7:18 am

The Net-Zero by 2050 Ship Starting to Sink
https://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/the-net-zero-by-2050-ship-starting-to-sink
Authored by Nicole James via The Epoch Times,

Almost the entire onshore and offshore wind industry is a European oligopoly.

These companies will be colluding, “on an informal basis”, to definitively screw the US to the global-warming CROSS (strike the iron, while it is hot), due to idiotic US and state bureaucratic mandates to “save the world”, which are aided and abetted by the subsidized, lapdog media and academia

It is unspoken EU policy to saddle the US economy with high energy costs, using IPCC, WEF, etc., scare-mongering about global warming, to prevent European companies from relocating in the US, etc.

The all-in capital cost of Biden’s 30,000 MW of offshore wind will be at least $180 billion, sea-to-shore, which has a levelized cost of energy of at least 36 c/kWh, without subsidies, at least 17 c/kWh, with subsidies, according to latest data presented by bidders to New York State,

– plus at least $25 to $30 billion of onshore grid extension/reinforcement, which has a levelized cost, c/kWh, including extra O&M,

– plus the on-going levelized cost, c/kWh, of a fleet of power plants to counteract the ups and downs of wind output, on a less than minute-by-minute basis, and fill in whatever electricity is missing to meet demand, 24/7/365, year-after-year,

– plus the cost, c/kWh, of curtailments during higher wind conditions

BTW, China has restricted the export of graphite, a key ingredient for making batteries.
Graphite will be scarce and expensive in the future.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/10/24/china-restricts-exports-of-graphite-key-mineral-used-for-making-ev-batteries/

Thank the Lord for giving us fossil fuels, for without them, we would be way up the creek without a paddle.
Tens of thousands of items, used every day, are made from derivatives of coal, oil, and gas.
Wind and solar only produce grid-disturbing, expensive electricity

Offshore Wind

World: During 2021, worldwide offshore wind capacity put in operation was 17,398 MW, of which China 13,790 MW and the rest of the world 3,608 MW, of which UK 1855 MW; Vietnam 643 MW; Denmark 604 MW; Netherlands 402 MW; Taiwan 109 MW
Of the 17,398 MW, just 57.1 MW was floating capacity.
By the end of 2021, 50,623 MW was in operation, of which just 123.4 MW was floating
https://www.energy.gov/eere/wind/articles/offshore-wind-market-report-2022-edition

State of Maine: Multi-millionaire wind-subsidy chasers, with minimal regard for impacts on the environment and already-overstressed, over-taxed, over-regulated ratepayers and taxpayers, want to have about 3,000 MW of floating wind turbines by 2040, a totally unrealistic goal.

Those floaters would cost at least $7,500/kW, or at least $22.5 billion, if built in 2023 (more after 2023), and would produce electricity at about 40 c/kWh, without subsidies, about 20 c/kWh with subsidies, the price at which owners would sell to utilities.
https://www.maine.gov/governor/mills/news/governor-mills-signs-bill-create-jobs-advance-clean-energy-and-fight-climate-change-through

European Big Wind Conglomerates in Deep Financial Trouble

The top four turbine producers in Europe have lost about $7 billion, of which $5 billion in 2022.

Oersted may write off more than $2 billion tied to three US-based projects – Ocean Wind 2 off New Jersey, Revolution Wind off Connecticut and Rhode Island, and Sunrise Wind off New York.

New York State had signed contracts with EU big wind companies for four offshore wind projects

Sometime later, the companies were trying to coerce an additional $25.35 billion (per Wind Watch) from New York ratepayers and taxpayers over at least 20 years, because they had bid at too low prices than they should have.

New York State denied the request on October 12, 2023; “a deal is a deal”, said the Commissioner 

Below contract prices, paid by Utilities to owners, are after an at least 50% reduction, due to US subsidies provided, per various laws, by the US Treasury to the owners. See Items 4 and 6 of URL
 
Oersted, Denmark, Sunrise wind, contracted at $110.37/MWh, contractor needs $139.99/MWh, a 27% increase
Equinor, Norway, Empire 1 wind, contracted at $118.38/MWh, contractor needs $159.64/MWh, a 35% increase
Equinor, Norway, Empire 2 wind, contracted at $107.50/MWh, contractor needs $177.84/MWh, a 66% increase
Equinor, Norway, Beacon Wind, contracted at $118.00/MWh, contractor needs $190.82/MWh, a 62% increase
https://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/liars-lies-exposed-as-wind-electricity-price-increases-by-66-wake

Inflation Reduction Act, IRA, Subsidies: The 30% Investment Tax Credit, ITC, can be applied to any taxes owed; plus deducting loan interest from any taxable income; plus 5-y depreciation of the project; plus, the recently added, Production Tax Credit, PTC, can be applied to any taxes owed.

They amount to a reduction of electricity production costs of at least 55%

If production costs for floating offshore in Maine is 40 c/kWh, without subsidies, it would be 18 c/kWh, with all subsidies, the price at which a utility would buy the electricity from the multi-millionaire Owners.

Such Owners likely have lucrative, long-term tax shelters.

They do not live in Maine, but in the poshest places elsewhere

Whereas, already-overtaxed, over-regulated, struggling, hard-working Mainers, in a near-zero, real-growth economy, plagued with high inflation and stagnant real incomes, are told to suck it up to “save the world”

abolition man
Reply to  wilpost
October 24, 2023 12:41 pm

If the “-overtaxed, over-regulated, struggling, hard-working Mainers” would just put enough “campaign contributions” in the pockets of elected officials they’d hear another story!
They would be unlikely to get any relief, but they could hear a veritable smorgasbord of justifications for biting the bullet!

Reply to  wilpost
October 27, 2023 4:32 am

“The Net-Zero by 2050 Ship Starting to Sink”

I love the title of this article.

Yes, Net Zero is taking on water.

And delusional Net Zero politicians and bureaucrats keep doubling down on stupid.

Bob
October 24, 2023 11:29 am

More good news.

GoHome
October 24, 2023 1:02 pm

Biden administration has forcefully responded to China threat to EV boom with a “Don’t, don’t, don’t, don’t.” So all is good again.

Go Home

Edward Katz
October 24, 2023 2:02 pm

It could easily be that China wants to put itself in a near-monopoly position in the sales and manufacturing of these vehicles. However, with demand for these being sporadic, if not faltering, because of excessive pricing, limited ranges, low resale values, questionable extreme weather reliability, inconsistent recharging availability, removal of consumer subsidies etc., the country could find itself with more white elephants on its hands than anticipated

Reply to  Edward Katz
October 24, 2023 7:21 pm

We can only hope so!

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Edward Katz
October 25, 2023 6:51 am

China is the dominant market for EVs. According to the IEA China had 60% of global sales in 2022 and more than half of all EVs on the road are in China. Europe is the second biggest market with 15% of sales in 2022 and US third with 8% of sales..

Rest of world could only manage 17% – not much interest there 🙂

‘IEA Global EV Outlook 2023’ 23rd April 2023.

October 24, 2023 2:18 pm

Well, reducing graphite might make it harder to pencil in different temperature readings than what was recorded in the past …

observa
October 24, 2023 5:45 pm

Toyota are hanging tough with long hybrid order books while the EVs bank up in showrooms-

Toyota says that it takes the same amount of battery material to make one full battery electric vehicle as it does to make 90 hybrids or six plug-in hybrids, suggesting that EV adaptation at a global scale is currently not realistic. This has seen the brand continue its efforts for alternative powertrain options.
Toyota is sticking by petrol and diesel in an increasingly electric world (msn.com)
We’ll see who’s right when the insurance underwriters get finished with BIG lithium.

Dave Andrews
Reply to  observa
October 25, 2023 6:35 am

In January 2023 the UK Chief Exec of Kia Motors told the Times newspaper that

“A mass market in affordable electric cars will not happen because of the difficulty of producing them on a viable basis” and “Kia had no immediate plans for a mass market vehicle”

Reply to  Dave Andrews
October 27, 2023 4:39 am

We may all be driving Kia’s in the future.

Toyota also has the right attitude about EV’s.

I would consider buying a non-plugin Toyota hybrid if I needed a new car.

Non-plugins eliminate the need to plug the car into an electrical outlet, so they place no hardship on the electrical grid, and eliminate a lot of other problems associated with plugin EV’s.

And Toyota uses batteries that don’t spontaneously combust in some of their models.

mikelowe2013
October 25, 2023 2:44 am

That good news about EVs just keeps coming! With the news that dealers are now refusing to accept more deliveries of new EVs because they cannot sell their existing stock merely confirms the belief of many that the early demand was a result of early-adopters and of those who support something because of its technical nature, and that follow-up demand will be much weaker. With some US EV-makers cancelling some production shifts, and now the Chinese assisting by limiting the supply of battery-components, what is there to be concerned about? All heading in the direction which most of us here have been expecting for a few years!

Reply to  mikelowe2013
October 27, 2023 4:47 am

Who wants a vehicle that can spontaneously combust?

Who wants a vehicle that will cost around $15,000.00 to repair the battery if you drive through high water?

Who wants the hassle of charging up at a public charging station?

It’s CO2 insanity that brings this about.

Verified by MonsterInsights