Wasting Time with Climate Science?

Opinion by Kip Hansen — 1 August 2023

Here I ask a simple question.  Are we all wasting our time with climate science?  Reading about it, writing about it, worrying about it, fighting about it, arguing about it.

To my horror, I discover that I have been involved in this enterprise for far more than a decade, originally writing from the Caribbean where my wife and I were living on our sailing catamaran while doing various humanitarian projects.   Not quite as long as Anthony Watts, who started WUWT in 2006, but nearly.

Anthony’s efforts led him to be the owner and host of the world’s most viewed website on climate.  Given that WUWT represents the “minority report” on climate, that is a heck of an achievement.  Yet the jury is still out on how much of an impact on climate policy and public opinion this site, and the dozen or so other high impact climate skeptic websites, blogs, podcasts, etc.,  have made and will make.   

Much of the “climate science” being done, at least that small portion that reaches the public eye by appearing in the mass media, falls into that category which the honorable Dr. Judith Curry long ago labelled “climate science ‘taxonomy’” – “‘taxonomy’, i.e. research that is neither useful nor contributes to fundamental understanding”.  That type of so-called climate science is turned into climate alarm in spades, in diamonds, in hearts and in clubs – the whole deck.

I am speaking of the nonsense one reads and hears from NPR, PBS, BBC, NBC, AP, CNN, Reuters, ABC, the NY Times,  the Guardian, the Washington Post – many of whom have openly joined themselves into propaganda cabals ( and this one) dedicated to spreading misleading information about climate and climate change.  [A new one has just been announced: GRIST and AP. ]  Even when a media organization is not directly associated with one of these collaborative misinformation outlets, their editors and journalists have to face the wrath of those that are – there are few working journalists willing to fight the tide on climate alarmism.

Even the IPCC-boosting Pielke Jr. has been blasting the media for repeating absolutely false narratives on extreme weather — the very same media that repeats endlessly the mindboggling crazy pronouncements of U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres — “the era of global boiling has arrived.”

CLINTEL, has just published an extremely valuable book, “The Frozen Climate Views of the IPCC“, widely available, in softcover and eBook formats.  The book examines the IPCC’s AR6 and documents biases and errors in the Working Group 1 (Scientific Basis) and Working Group 2 (Impacts, Adaptation and Vulnerability) reports.  [Disclosure: I contributed one of the chapters – thus have a conflict of interest.]

We see the forked-tongued enemy.  A two-pronged approach.  First, the underlying science is slightly warped, slightly biased, misleadingly reported in the latest IPCC Assessment Report (AR6) WG1 and WG2.  A lot of this is simple confirmation bias and forced-consensus biasing.   The truth in is there, but one needs to dodge the rhetoric and look only at the data itself, which is mostly correct.   And then, the Summaries for Policy Makers (SPMs)  wildly misrepresent what the science sections have said and transmogrify it into something barely recognizable. 

From the SPMs, the politicians, media moguls, the Davos Crowd, the Green-New-Dealers, the Great Reset-ers, turn the SPM political opinions into outright lies and give the media propaganda cabals their marching orders.

And then, here we are.  Here I am.  I have written about 100 essays and opinion pieces here since 2020 alone.  I’ve been at it more than a decade.  There are a few dozen of others like myself who have researched and written endlessly, both in books and on the ‘Net,  to expose the lies, the disinformation, the misinformation, and the slimy political-shenanigans behind the efforts to “decarbonize” the economy of the world in the name of fighting global cooling, global warming, climate change, the climate crisis.

Every few years we see a slight shift towards the climate skeptic way of thinking in the general populace – and recently, a few nudges in our direction from governments.  The UK will drill-baby-drill to supply its own energy needs from its own resources.  Japan is re-opening nuclear power plants and building new ones.  In November last year, General Motors announced that it will stick with internal combustion engines.  India, the third-largest greenhouse gas emitter and the world’s most populous country , is planning for an expansion of its oil and gas sectors (even as it aims to hit net zero by 2070).   Those living in the real world realize that as Africa grows itself into prosperity, into the world of middle-class nations, it will do so on the back of coal and petroleum produced electricity.  Even relatively well-developed South Africa has acknowledged it needs to continue to burn coal for the present and foreseeable future.

I hope that readers see the obvious contrasts between the “reality” presented daily in the world’s mass media and what is actually happening in the world.  A large percentage of the material appearing on this website points out those contrasts, every single day.  Heartland, the CO2 Coalition, Clintel and other international climate skeptical organizations do so in print and through broadcasts, podcasts, YouTubes and interviews on wide-reaching news outlets. There are many climate skeptic oriented bloggers doing good work. Some of the “good news” is getting out there. 

Is what we do worthwhile?   Yes — It is always worthwhile to do what is right, to do what is good, to tell the truth, to fight the good fight against falsehoods and lies. 

But are we making an impact?  I can no longer tell – I am having a little bit of a “I think I’m burnt-out” stage.  I see a news article about a topic, and I think, “That’s utter claptrap, I’ll write about that.” Only to discover that I’ve already written about it a half-dozen times and really have nothing further to say than what I have already said.   I sometimes fear I just don’t have anything more to say, at all – and when I teach Public Speaking, I tell students, “If you don’t have anything to say —  don’t get up to speak or if you are already up, sit  back down.”

So, my question for the day, and please do comment, I promise not to get mad at you…..

Should I just sit back down and shut up? 


Should I keep banging away, just because ‘someone has to’?

# # # # #

Author’s Comment:

I guess the same question applies to all of us here….

This is, I hope obviously, a piece meant to stimulate discussion.  So, please, please, discuss.

On Pielke Jr.:  I like Pielke Jr.  He does good work.  He tells the truth as he sees it.  He is one of the most effective of the “climate skeptical voices”, albeit in his own way.  He is an IPCC-booster but even he thinks it needs serious reform. He has paid a heavy price for his temerity.  Read his substack.

And yes, I do think that there is also some nonsense published here – some even written by me.  That’s the price we pay for freedom.  But, the way I see it, we err in an honest search for truth.

I don’t expect to take too much of a role in the discussion, I have said what I have to say above. But, if your start a comment with “Kip…”, I’ll try to reply.

Thanks for reading.

# # # # #

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August 1, 2023 10:01 pm


And wasting trillions of dollars at the cost of millions of human lives and billions of birds and bats trying futilely to solve a non-existent problem, while degrading environments on land and sea around the globe and supporting slave and child labor to support genocidal, mass-murdering, organ-harvesting, human and lethal drug-trafficking dictatorships.

August 1, 2023 10:15 pm

You’ve made some progress in fighting the energy policies mainly by arguing the impracticalities of these policies. But I think the science is still important to talk about because a lot of people, especially in my generation (you know the same generation that’s entering adulthood and the future of humanity), actually believe the world is in a state of great danger. My friends have told me in a conversation that they would risk the economy even if these energy sources are more impractical because having no economy is better than not having a planet to live on. Their words not mine. Even my friends who I’d consider to be on the smarter side share that alarmist viewpoint.

Reply to  Walter
August 1, 2023 10:37 pm

People who should know better don’t, because of relentless lies by media, government and academics with vested interests.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Milo
August 2, 2023 4:59 am

It’s as relentless as The Church in the Middle Ages.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
August 2, 2023 10:37 am

It has become the Church of the Day.

William Howard
Reply to  Milo
August 2, 2023 12:39 pm

Not to mention abandoning all common sense

Iain Reid
Reply to  Walter
August 1, 2023 11:17 pm


on what basis do you and your generation believe the ‘world is in great danger’.
Surely nothing you have read in here for instance.
The world is in great danger from politicians who make ill informed judgements and those politicians in global organisations that seek to over rule national control and run the world, totally unelected or asked for.
Climate is the least of your worries, or should be!

Reply to  Iain Reid
August 1, 2023 11:51 pm

Well I think the environment is doing just fine. Humans have made some great environmental strides in recent decades and increasing CO2 will further green the Earth. The rest of my generation, on the other hand, thinks we’ll have to build spaceships to evacuate humans to Mars. They think that all of the drastic changes to the economy and our energy are necessary to save the world. They’ve been fed lies their whole lives and have a hard time seeing mass delusion propagated by government and media. Because of that, I think arguing only the economics and inefficiencies of renewable energy will win the battle in the short term until my generation takes over

Ben Vorlich
Reply to  Walter
August 2, 2023 12:29 am

How many have done something really effective to reduce their carbon footprint?

Rich Davis
Reply to  Ben Vorlich
August 2, 2023 4:04 am

I don’t know why people downvote such a good point. Nobody wants to admit to being a hypocrite. Ask them what they have personally done in furtherance of the goals they claim are necessary to ‘save the planet’ and they are put into cognitive dissonance. Either they have to lie to themselves about the significance of their recycling efforts or they have to adjust their views to their actual behavior.

Cynically I am confident that they can concoct any number of fairy tales, but it would then be our task to debunk each in turn.

Bob B.
Reply to  Walter
August 2, 2023 5:13 am

Yes, Mars is lovely this time of year.

Reply to  Bob B.
August 2, 2023 5:39 am

“Mars ain’t the kind of place to raise your kids”

Rich Davis
Reply to  Bob B.
August 2, 2023 11:29 am

Pretty much equally lovely any time of year, ask Rocket Man

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Walter
August 2, 2023 10:54 am

…, thinks we’ll have to build spaceships to evacuate humans to Mars.

That is irrational. As bad as the pollution in China is, the air is still breathable, unlike Mars. People can wear fewer clothes if it gets much warmer on Earth; on Mars, one would have to wear a space suit to keep from freezing to death. There is no time of day or season on Mars when one can go without their spacesuit; if the physical integrity of the spacesuit is compromised, the person would not survive for long.

Writing Observer
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 2, 2023 12:29 pm

Now, there are some people that I would prefer to have restricted to a spacesuit 24/7.

OTOH, there are others that I would positively enjoy seeing in rather fewer clothes.

So, I’m rather conflicted here…

Geoff Sherrington
Reply to  Iain Reid
August 2, 2023 3:19 am

The great danger is that of a higher probability of warfare.
Actions like fooling with national fossil fuels are high on the list of causes of conflict.
Just wait until the man in the street finally realizes how he has been conned.
It is starting to sink in with Covid.
Geoff S

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Geoff Sherrington
August 2, 2023 5:04 am

Some of those “man in the street” get sent off to war due to such false reasons. The children of the rich and powerful of course seldom go. At least back in tribal days, the chief led his warriors. We should require that again- it might reduce warfare.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
August 2, 2023 10:57 am

Even when kings led their armies, it didn’t reduce warfare.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 2, 2023 1:27 pm

Sure, but at least those with the power to start a war have to face the consequences.

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
August 2, 2023 11:44 am

Send “climate czar” John Kerry in on his Swift Boat!

Although that might not work well in Ukraine, where a dam across their largest river was recently blown up…

Reply to  Iain Reid
August 2, 2023 10:54 am

Walter said “But I think the science is still important to talk about because a lot of people, especially in my generation (you know the same generation that’s entering adulthood and the future of humanity), actually believe the world is in a state of great danger.” The implication is clear that he is not one of the “believers”.

Kip – many of his generation has been brainwashed. They have not been taught to look behind the curtain, but to accept the declarations of authorities. They are still young – and still able to start thinking for themselves, unlike many of our generation who have sneered at “deniers” and would feel like fools if the truth was suddenly accepted as fact.

It is our responsibility to try to open the eyes of those who will see, especially the young ones. That responsibility especially lies with those who can write intelligently, logically, factually, and in an interesting manner. You are one of several on this site – Watts, Middleton, CTM, Willis, and many others, as well as some very good commenters. I wish MarkW and others would do more than just comment.

I have followed WUWT almost daily since 2006, yet I still learn from you guys. I’ve been involved (on a verbal – not written level) in the Climate Change discussion since the ’60s, when I was arguing against the coming Ice Age. I expect to be laughing at the coming Ice Age before I die. I remember too well my grandfather and uncles laughing about how they lived through these whiplash scares dating back to the 1920s. As farmers, climate was critical to their careers, yet over all that time they saw little difference. They expected the college boy (moi) to be taken in by every silly trend Popular Science breathlessly reported. Thanks to them, I was not (although they still planted and built fences according to the phase of the moon!)

Life is funny, but it is also a battle with the occasional victory. Those victories slow the victimization of the masses by the ruling class. That alone makes the fight worthwhile.

ethical voter
Reply to  Iain Reid
August 2, 2023 1:42 pm

The world is in great danger is a head worm that drives apocalyptic thoughts in humanity. It nourishes doomsday cults, of which, the current climate hysteria is just one more. That is why science and facts make hard work of sailing into head winds. In time the wind will change. Hopefully before we are on the rocks.

UK-Weather Lass
Reply to  Walter
August 2, 2023 1:14 am

A very real problem in the spread of inappropriate decision/opinion making is the pay-off for being on song, knowing the tune and the words, offering less hassle and more options, guaranteeing a place in the group, and, of course, financial security and progress.  Lies, bribery and blackmail have always been the tools of persuasion when facts and truth may point the victim in a diametrically opposite direction. 

It takes strong personality and self-belief to fight the threats of persecution, isolation and punishment especially when they guarantee erosion of financial security.   Politicians have long known this and that is why they have no apparent sense of guilt or responsibility when most individuals would display discomfit at much of what they do.  

The UN is an easy target to name for those with proper consciences because it is so corrupt and corrupting and has no beating heart just the pendulum of illusion.  On the one hand we have those with hearts and on the other we have the heartless. Is that what OUR money was supposed to buy?  It will take a world war or decades to clean this mess up but not cleaning it up will have far, far worse consequences for all of us including those who think they’ll be sitting pretty in the New Age.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Walter
August 2, 2023 4:58 am

And in the past, most people were fearful of Satan. We’ve just replaced one devil with another. Perhaps there is some deep seated need in the human psyche for such a threat, maybe to help us understand all our other fears.

Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 2, 2023 12:50 pm

Thank you for your contributions. I learn something new from you guys everyday.

Dennis Gerald Sandberg
Reply to  Walter
August 2, 2023 2:45 pm

Walter, if you and your friends want to worry about something worry about the $2 trillion/year increase in the national debt ($2000000000), That’s the crisis that needs to be dealt with, not a 2 ppm/year increase in CO2 (0.000002). The inevitable economic collapse and subsequent anarchy is the crisis, not plant food. Paul Krugman, the go-to libera/progressive economist is wrong, a huge national debt is not “just a number”.

Reply to  Walter
August 2, 2023 8:35 pm

You, your smart friends and most of your contemporaries have been totally deceived by the relentless drumbeat of climate change propaganda! It’s up to you to break the mind fog of the propagandist lies that grip your intelligence. Climate change depends precious little on science while propelled unequivocally by a religious fervor deeply rooted in manipulated data thanks to falsely constructed climate models.Don’t be afraid to open your mind and search for the truth!

Dan Davis
August 1, 2023 10:56 pm

Kip, set up an KAIP Hansen “wack-a-mo” that is connected to that vast database of knowledge you have created – that needs repeating on a rotating daily basis!
Bit of work to get it going, but then “you” can be an influencer while adjusting your jib!

Writing Observer
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 2, 2023 12:32 pm

Ah, a good day. Sailing is one thing where you can honestly say “it was uphill BOTH ways” on some days.

August 1, 2023 11:03 pm

Of course. It’s just a proxy for socialism. It’s not actual science.

Philip CM
August 1, 2023 11:24 pm

You and the others working to counter the climate agitprop are doing the work necessary for the following generation(s) to discover information and data that negates the current rush on climate alarmism.

It’s vital work, and I thank God people like yourself and Anthony are in the trenches pushing back.

I’m sorry you’re feeling a bit burnt out by the experience. I don’t believe it’s something we are going to “win”. However, I believe a place where alternative facts and opinions reside is an essential need for those who escape the intense propaganda and hard selling of climate catastrophe that is the CAGW grift.

Any attempt to bring pragmatism to the net-zero renewables agenda is a long lonely road to walk. Most of us feel it with out being the gathers and collators of the counter argument to the climate hysteria. We read and comment and argue and hopefully like yourself, bring into the fold those who’ve awakened amid the chaos of climate hysteria.

So I say, don’t do it for the win. Do it for the record. It’s vital that a counter record exist. Especially given that the alarmist are working so hard to remove any alternative voice from being. Chin up. 🫡

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Philip CM
August 2, 2023 3:46 am

“I believe a place where alternative facts and opinions reside is an essential need for those who escape the intense propaganda and hard selling of climate catastrophe that is the CAGW grift.”

Every time I see an alarmist claim in the press, I know I can come to WUWT and find the issue thoroughly discussed.

There are many climate change alarmist claims in the press, and the claims involve many scientific disciplines, and even knowedgeable people, are not knowledgeable in all subjects, but they can come here to find people who are knowledgeable, and who will explain the situation in plain language.

Your writing is helping a lot of people, Kip. I think your uncovering of the Mass Media conspiring together to push the human-caused climate change narrative is very important. People should be told there is a concerted effort to brainwash them over climate change.

Climate Change Propaganda Organs are dangerous to humanity. They should be exposed. Who are they? Who is paying for all these efforts? Why are these efforts being made? Why has science been turned into politics?

Keep up the good work, Kip. The World needs you. 🙂

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Tom Abbott
August 2, 2023 5:13 am

“Every time I see an alarmist claim in the press, I know I can come to WUWT and find the issue thoroughly discussed.”

Nailed it! When I first was directed here by a friend 3-4 years ago- I found it overwhelming because the discussions were so good- so unlike the simple propaganda in the MSM. I was actually shocked that there even existed such an alternative view- which is absolutely unknown here in Woke-achusetts. When I finally got the sense of it- I realized that I had also been preaching the climate cult. It’s easy here because in Woke-achusetts, there is by default, a negative view of ff producing states as backward with my state being so elitist with all the higher education. So it was so perfectly reasonable that ff producing regions were going to kill the planet.

So, I can thank WUWT for taking the scales off my eyes.

Rich Davis
Reply to  Tom Abbott
August 2, 2023 12:30 pm

I agree that most of the Izaaks and Rusty Nails are brainwashed rather than nefarious. I think the jury’s still out on Nitpick Nick, but I would give even him the benefit of the doubt.

Even the majority of the propagandists are sincere and acting in good faith. They are true believers in a false religion. They are still dangerous even though they intend to do good. It’s quite possible that they arose spontaneously from a mass delusion, independent of conspiracies. A lot of people just believing an error.

There are two other groups out there in the alarmist camp. Hypocrites riding a wave for personal gain, and ideologues consciously using Climate Change ™ as a Trojan Horse to usher in totalitarianism.

It’s not too difficult to suss out who’s a hypocrite—just contrast Say—Do. They obviously didn’t manufacture the hoax, they see opportunities and incentives and act on it for personal gain.

The most dangerous and evil group are in the Trojan Horse. Did they initiate the mass delusion or are they also merely taking advantage of it? Does it really matter? In the end they are equally dangerous either way.

All of this is to deny that I am a conspiracy theorist, which doesn’t mean that there is no coordination of individuals and groups or that their actions are not harmful.

Steve Case
August 1, 2023 11:31 pm

Cartoons illustrate the problem. For example:

Conspiracy cow.jpg
Reply to  Steve Case
August 2, 2023 2:42 am

The difference between a conspiracy theory & fact is …

about 5 years !

Reply to  1saveenergy
August 2, 2023 3:46 am

nowdays? closer to 6mths

Mark BLR
Reply to  Steve Case
August 2, 2023 3:29 am

Obligatory XKCD about a different “problem” …

comment image

August 2, 2023 12:15 am

Your article is confusing media responses in the West with actual policy decisions.
The media is a form of entertainment that wants sensationalism. It’s only news, not anything important. The real decisions are not made by the Guardian.
There have been 26 or so Conferences of the Parties set up by the UN to discuss the global response to this issue. And they have all agreed that the biggest emitters, China
and India, need do nothing yet.
The West can do what it wants. (Of course, the West can do what it wants. The UN has no power over sovereign nations.)
If the West wants to abandon manufacturing while the world’s biggest nations want to take on that role, no-one can stop it.
If the world’s biggest emitters and most technologically dynamic countries ignore AGW
then the policy battle has been won.
Unfortunately, not won by the West. But at least humanity can move on and ignore this folly.

Reply to  MCourtney
August 2, 2023 1:18 am

…The real decisions are not made by the Guardian.

Quite correct, but they do report on the next step to hell, and, more importantly, they spend most of their effort preparing our collective consciousness for the next step.

Ben Vorlich
August 2, 2023 12:27 am

Kip the wise words of Robert Burns

A Man’s a Man for a’ that:
For a’ that, and a’ that,
Their tinsel show, an’ a’ that;
The honest man, tho’ e’er sae poor,
Is king o’ men for a’ that.

Ye see yon birkie ca’d a lord,
Wha struts, an’ stares, an’ a’ that,
Tho’ hundreds worship at his word,
He’s but a coof for a’ that.
For a’ that, an’ a’ that,
His ribband, star, an’ a’ that,
The man o’ independent mind,
He looks an’ laughs at a’ that.

Reply to  Ben Vorlich
August 2, 2023 3:01 am

Legend has it that while he was hiding out in a cave, Robert the Bruce took to watching a spider that was struggling to build a web. Whenever the little spider appeared to make progress, it would fall, only to climb back up again and attempt to weave a web once more. Eventually, after trying, and trying, and trying again, the spider managed to weave one single line of silk, and from there, was able to build its web. 

Bruce took from this that ‘if at first, you don’t succeed, try, try, try again’, and went on to defeat the English at the Battle of Bannockburn in 1314, despite the Scottish army being outnumbered around 7,000 to 13,000.


Watson: “It looks like the attacker fled the scene, leaving behind this evidence before he had time to clean up the scene.”

Holmes: “Precisely Watson, and now the game is afoot.” (Conan Doyle)


We are winning folks! (Hotscot)

August 2, 2023 12:28 am

Never surrender! Every little bit helps. It is exhausting to fight the same battles over and over but if we don’t, the world proceeds even more rapidly down the road of energy self-destruction. Truth, science, and all the observational evidence is on our side refuting the apocalyptic fantasy that human CO2 emissions are wreaking havoc on the planet. We have to keep getting the message out and persuade the persuadable that there is no climate catastrophe. Keep up the good work! And take breaks to relax and enjoy the most important things: family and friends.

Izaak Walton
August 2, 2023 12:30 am

And oddly enough people concerned about climate change are convinced that they are losing as well. They look at the fact that CO2 emissions rise every year, that the amount of coal being mined and burnt increases that no country has made any meaningful steps towards reducing their CO2 emissions (other than swapping natural gas for coal) etc.

Reply to  Izaak Walton
August 2, 2023 1:30 am

 They look at the fact that CO2 emissions rise every year, that the amount of coal being mined and burnt increases that no country has made any meaningful steps towards reducing their CO2 emissions”

GREAT NEWS , isn’t it !!

Pity they have WASTED so much money achieving that. !

But then , it’s not about CO2 is it.

It’s about “restructuring” western society.

Reply to  Izaak Walton
August 2, 2023 2:15 am

On the contrary – it’s great news! More plant food in the atmosphere means global greening, and higher crop yields, and absolutely no effect on climate.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Izaak Walton
August 2, 2023 4:02 am

“And oddly enough people concerned about climate change are convinced that they are losing as well.”

They are losing, for the reasons you described.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Izaak Walton
August 2, 2023 5:22 am

Perhaps if the greens were to go to China, Russia, India, Africa and Latin America to preach their message- you might convince those nations to cut back on carbon emissions. But don’t plan on such success.

Reply to  Izaak Walton
August 2, 2023 7:57 am

What’s CO2 got to do with planetary warming?

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Izaak Walton
August 2, 2023 8:56 am

According to the recently published Energy Institute ‘Statistical Review of World Energy 2023’ the Asia Pacific Region accounts for almost 50% of total CO2 emissions and China was responsible for 72% of the growth of primary energy consumption in 2022.

Why don’t you go and have a word with them?

August 2, 2023 12:40 am

I would say the past work – even if repetitive- is vital…..

Slowly the grains of sand of truth build up and manage to stop the boulders of AGW propaganda from moving

Recently I have noticed a number of interesting push-backs (in addition to the ones pointed out in the article)

The Uxbridge by-election result – driven by ULEZ (in my opinion a proxy for all the NZ stuff) – this has led to public statements by all parties about some re-thinking

Tony Blair (or all people) publicly stating the costs of NZ must not be born by the public (not sure where he thinks the money comes from But that’s a different debate)

And finally – Chris Packham (of all people!) in the new Earth series on TV. Scientifically based commentary on the positive impact of CO2 on plants. Indeed the last episode was largely about CO2 and he did not utter the words “climate change” once…..

Ben Vorlich
Reply to  Hysteria
August 2, 2023 3:02 am

I made a point of not watching Packham to protect my blood pressure and the TV

Right-Handed Shark
Reply to  Hysteria
August 2, 2023 5:09 am

Packham, as a “naturalist”, should understand the carbon cycle and recognize that man’s contribution to it is background noise. It is by no means certain that the minute increase of the tiny portion of the planet’s carbon that is currently in the atmosphere as CO2 is entirely due to human activity when natural processes are orders of magnitude greater.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Hysteria
August 2, 2023 5:25 am

Looks like some people will change their tune but will never admit it.

Reply to  Hysteria
August 4, 2023 1:34 pm

Could we all try to avoid abbreviating Nut Zero to NZ? There are many of us even here in New Zealand who would object to that! Not enough of us, of course, but some are at least slowly awakening!

August 2, 2023 12:41 am

Only to discover that I’ve already written about it a half-dozen times and really have nothing further to say than what I have already said.

Then all that’s required is a paragraph to point out that they are recycling this rubbish again, with links to your previous writings on the topic. Pointing out their rubbish recycling is valuable.

Javier Vinós
August 2, 2023 12:49 am

Hi Kip,

It all depends on the reason you have to do it. If you expect to contribute to winning a war, then you will likely burn yourself out as this war cannot be won given the disparity of means. If you are just happy with being on the side of the truth and keeping the resistance alive then you will find it very worthwhile.

In the history of science, the figure of the lone researcher fighting against the orthodoxy for many years without getting recognition sometimes until he has long been dead is common. Alfred Wegener was vindicated in the 1960s, and Milutin Milankovich in 1976. Few people believed they were right before.

This I learned after many years in science: Stick to the evidence and you’ll never be wrong. Stick to your hypotheses and you’ll be wrong more often than not.

Some people notice the lack of evidence in the CO2 hypothesis and it makes them skeptical. That is why they can never convince all the people. As the saying goes:
They can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but they can not fool all of the people all of the time.

I am happy with being on the right side based on the evidence and contributing to better knowledge that should raise doubts in the few people that are open to arguments. I assume I’ll long be dead before the science on this issue is really settled so it doesn’t bother me that progress is slow.

The other side has it worse. Their proposed solution, abandoning fossil fuels, is impossible and it is not happening. People will only go along as long as their quality of life is not impacted. No matter how much they fudge with the data the climate cannot be affected. Sooner or later nature will show how powerful natural climate change truly is, so their cause has its days counted.

Long term our position is much stronger. The secret is that happiness is a journey, not a destination. We should all enjoy the trip.

Reply to  Javier Vinós
August 2, 2023 2:56 am

I assume I’ll long be dead before the science on this issue is really settled so it doesn’t bother me that progress is slow.

People will only go along as long as their quality of life is not impacted.

The negative results are now, today, becoming more and more pronounced, restricting the quality of life and constantly threatening to become harsher. “They” are very good are introducing requirements a little at a time so that the majority can’t piece them together to understand why there are fewer, then still fewer choices.

It seems to me that “they” see the propaganda failing in various ways as their pronouncements fail to materialize, so are speeding up the roundup before the cattle have a chance to become too aware. Their end game may be getting closer.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  AndyHce
August 2, 2023 5:28 am

Meanwhile, here in Woke-achusetts, there is a new state law that says you can have on any official documents, that your gender is “X”. This state gets crazier every day.

August 2, 2023 12:50 am

Like you I see no new science, not even many new arguments, but there is an endless supply of new humans starting out and trying to understand more about the climate and what effect humans have on it. Yours and all the other contributions here and elsewhere won’t change minds among the already settled minds but they can and do have a profound effect on those seeking knowledge.

It’s a good thing you and all the others do. You don’t have to fight every battle Kip, just keep contributing to the much needed understanding. The tide feels to be turning and this insane destruction of wealth will stop. That means the war will be won.

Javier Vinós
Reply to  Keitho
August 2, 2023 3:26 am

Like you I see no new science

I disagree with that statement. Climate science has never advanced so fast. It is the result of throwing a huge pile of money at it. There are a lot of means, satellites, proxy records, and measurements producing a lot of evidence continuously.

I published my book in September 2022, not even a year ago, and there is now a lot of new evidence supporting what I said in it, and adding new aspects to it.

Being in such an active science field is such a joy for a nerd like me that I can’t even describe it. I’ll try to share it in more books though. We live in a time of wonders. Don’t be fooled by the wrong paradigm being the consensus, that is usually the case in science. Ask Galileo. We are witnessing tremendous advances in our climate understanding. They are just hidden from the public view because the media highlights the rubbish.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 3, 2023 4:01 am

“Keitho ==> You are right — you don’t SEE any new science. But their are hundreds and hundreds of CliSci related articles/papers published every year.”

Yes, I bet 25 percent of the articles I saw yesterday on the newsfeed I use was about climate change, either a “doom and gloom” story, or a story about windmills, EV;s or solar.

And it is like that about every day. There are a tremendous amount of “doom and gloom” stories written about human-caused climate change. The propaganda must be overwhelming to people who don’t know anything about the subject.

I hear one in four youngsters say they don’t want to have kids. We can thank the Climate Change Alarmists for that.

Stephen Wilde
August 2, 2023 12:52 am

I’ve been at it since 2007.
There are now many more people who simply don’t believe it. Recent hyperbole has ‘jumped the shark’ .
Our work now lies on the record to show that we are the good guys.
All we need to do is persist.
There has been no sign of the predicted ‘hockey stick ‘ temperature rise but there are signs that warming is fizzling out. The general public is noticing that the predictions and projections are simply failing to occur.
If the alarmist fears had any merit there would be no doubt about it any more but doubt is increasing.
No coastal areas show any problems with sea level changes and the effect of urban heat islands is becoming ever more apparent.

Ireneusz Palmowski
Reply to  Stephen Wilde
August 2, 2023 1:22 am

Yes, the expansion of urban agglomerations and the huge increase in demand for fresh water, these are real problems. 

Reply to  Stephen Wilde
August 2, 2023 5:59 am

There has been no sign of the predicted ‘hockey stick ‘ temperature rise but there are signs that warming is fizzling out. 

Roy Spencer just published the UAH July update. It was the warmest July and the warmest absolute month in their record. Fizzling out?

Reply to  TheFinalNail
August 2, 2023 7:31 am

Firstly, I do not want the warmth to fizzle out. Where I am in Southern Ontario we are having an extremely pleasant summer and the harvest is likely to by a bumper crop. The satellite record only goes back to 1979, starting in acknowledged cold years. The 1930’s had both extreme heat and cold along with extensive forest fires. So a record in UAH may have been set but you or I can’t sense the difference compared to any other hot July.

Reply to  robaustin
August 2, 2023 11:46 am

1930s weren’t hot globally.

Reply to  TheFinalNail
August 2, 2023 7:50 am

He goes on to say:

“These results suggest something peculiar is going on. It’s too early for the developing El Nino in the Pacific to have much effect on the tropospheric temperature record. The Hunga Tonga sub-surface ocean volcano eruption and its “unprecedented” production of extra stratospheric water vapor could be to blame.”

But leave it to a climate alarmist to misleadingly, and deliberately quote without context.

Reply to  HotScot
August 2, 2023 11:48 am

He can say what he likes, it’s still the warmest month on his record. It’s not like other underwater volcanoes haven’t erupted since 1979.

Reply to  TheFinalNail
August 2, 2023 2:05 pm

Panic, panic !! The sky is falling the sky is falling !!

Reply to  TheFinalNail
August 2, 2023 3:17 pm

As has already been explained to you elsewhere, the warmest month is weather.

According to you lot ‘climate’ manifests itself over 30 years.

No one knows where the 30 year definition emerged from, but you lot made the rules, we’re just sticking to them.

So sit back down and STFU.

Luke B
Reply to  TheFinalNail
August 3, 2023 10:12 pm

That’s funny, I’m not having to watch for dust storms on the horizon, which might have been the case 90 years ago. In my geographical area, the 30s were definitely hotter. The funny thing is that if it re-occurs it will be cited as irrefutable proof despite the fact that it has happened before, no doubt happened before that, and it will happen again.

Reply to  TheFinalNail
August 2, 2023 8:44 am

Let’s see . . . checking, checking . . . yeah, there it is: both NOAA and NASA define climate as weather over a specified geographical region when averaged over a continuous interval of 30 or more years.

And you are focusing on the UAH-publicized temperature for July 2023???

Sorry, you are commenting on a weather report when most WUWT readers and commenters are more concerned with climate.

Reply to  ToldYouSo
August 2, 2023 9:23 am

‘The Climate’ doesn’t bother me in the least.

Reply to  HotScot
August 2, 2023 10:05 am

Well, speaking for myself, changing climate IS a concern of mine (such should be obvious from me reading articles on the WUWT website and posting comments here), but in this regard I’m quite happy to note:

(a) Earth has “greened” significantly (5-15%, calculations vary) over the last 35 years due to atmospheric CO2 increasing from around 355 ppm to 420 ppm, just in time to accommodate feeding the surge in the world’s human population, and

(b) a warming Earth is highly beneficial to humans since empirical data shows cold-related excess deaths are around ten times higher than heat-related excess deaths, and

(c) today, humans are so very fortunate to live in an interglacial period (which started 12,000–14,000 years ago, and should last for at least another 12,000 years based on statistics for the last eight glacial/interglacial cycles), despite Earth currently being in the Quaternary Ice Age (aka Quaternary Glaciation). This is not to say that Earth won’t experience momentary dips in global temperature, such as occurred during the Little Ice Age, during the current interglacial . . . such being able to cause significant disruptions to food and energy supply-demand balances.

So, yeah, I pay attention to Earth’s climate and its variations.

Reply to  ToldYouSo
August 2, 2023 11:55 am

This is purely my own experience, but it seems to me as I drive around my area (central Maryland, USA) and everywhere I go, the trees and foliage look super-lush. Hardly a brown leaf to be seen, even though we’re in a bit of a drought.

I have an old weeping cherry treein my front yard that always starting dropping leaves by July, but the last few years, he has been holding on closer to fall. Trees along Interstate 70, that I drive every day, used to get a lot of brown spot on the leaves by now, but THEY are still all-green, and dark green. My lawn used to brown out by August, but even it is holding on to its color, though it’s not growing right now.

I’d say my area has “greened” by a good 10% or so as well.

Reply to  ToldYouSo
August 2, 2023 3:19 pm

Define ‘Climate’ please.

Reply to  HotScot
August 2, 2023 4:48 pm

What . . . you think I can define climate better than NOAA or NASA did, as I noted in my OP of August 2, 2023 8:44 am upthread?

Reply to  ToldYouSo
August 2, 2023 11:50 am

Speaking of long term trends, the one in UAH just went up a notch, showing that this monthly temperature is just part of the long term warming trend in that particular record.

Reply to  TheFinalNail
August 2, 2023 12:14 pm

Speaking of “long term trends” . . . if you go back to Holocene Optimum (roughly 9,500 to 5,500 years ago), you might just notice that Earth has been in a cooling trend since then.

Warming, cooling are both relative terms . . . or perhaps you didn’t fully appreciate that.

Reply to  TheFinalNail
August 2, 2023 2:07 pm

A single month can’t be anything to do with CO2 , now can it. !

Awaiting proof that CO2 caused this lovely warmth.

… or that it is anything but a natural spike caused by weather patterns.

Reply to  TheFinalNail
August 2, 2023 2:03 pm

Oh dear, poor little boy is having another apoplectic panic attack !

Perspective.. Still cooler than the MWP when trees grew under glaciers 😉

Been an absolutely GLORIOUS winter down here. 🙂

Get out of your padded basement, and enjoy. !

Steve Case
Reply to  Stephen Wilde
August 2, 2023 7:27 am

Me too. Summer of 2007 we were in a travel group, and a guest lecturer was telling us how the polar bears were going to be extinct by 2020. I knew that was simply not true, but I didn’t have the data at hand to counter what we were being told. I resolved to not let that happen again. I now travel with a folder full of various topics that we here at WUWT are familiar with.

Reply to  Steve Case
August 2, 2023 11:56 am

Why not just say “No it’s not,”? Your unsupported assertion is just as valid as his unsupported assertion.

August 2, 2023 1:12 am

Sorry but you’re still needed.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” – John Stuart Mill (paraphrased)

David Pentland
Reply to  Mike Jonas
August 2, 2023 4:11 am

Or “Ignorance can be fixed, stupid is forever”.

Thanks to the many great articles here from Kip et al I’ve been able to open a minds to the scam. The truth will come out. How long will it take is the question.

Reply to  David Pentland
August 2, 2023 7:47 am

“Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one.”

― Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds

August 2, 2023 1:15 am

Cudos to Anthony and everybody else who has built this into the greatest climate forum on earth. None of you ever stop!
For those not directly involved with the subject, the laymen and merely interested, but without the platform or knowledge, there is one very important thing you can do:
We all stand in queues, around kiosks, doorways… the human is a herd animal. While standing there, should you eye catch some form of devilry, a headline perhaps, advertising climastrology, or a rainbow arranged with six colours on childrens’ clothing, masks for toddlers, you know the thing I’m talking about. Well, don’t just stand there, feeling ill at ease, say something, like: “Shame, the store manager seems to support child sexualisation, you think his own kids are a bit off?” or “Oh my goodness, look, we’re going to die again of yesterday’s heatwave (cue dramatic eye roll). One would swear not one journalist has ever been cold enough to know THAT kills way more people.”
Conversationally, of course. With a smile and a wink.
Remember: Faith is the opposite of doubt, as They attack our faith, so we can sow doubt amongst Their disciples, too. No arguments or fiery rhetoric, just a bit of humorous doubt.

August 2, 2023 1:18 am


First of all, I think it’s great that you’ve put so much time and thought into this issue.

As you say it’s always important to tell the truth and set the record straight. If someone has printed something full of bad conclusions, the wrong ideas, climate alarmism, etc, it means a reply is warranted yet again.

They may be trying to wear us out or beat a dead horse, but we can’t give up. And even if you’ve already addressed the matter, a fresh answer always works best.

August 2, 2023 1:28 am

I have suggested this before. We are as a culture in the English speaking countries in the grip of climate hysteria. This has two aspects, one it consists of lots of doomsday predictions about the future accompanied by misrepresentations of the underlying science regarding climate.

Two, it consists of a great many idiotic policy prescriptions which are unaffordable, impossible to implement, and even if implemented, would have no effect on the global emissions which are supposed to be the problem.

Yes, its a waste of time getting into disputes over climate change itself. The thing to focus on is the policy prescriptions. Because with these an evidence based discussion is possible. The belief in a climate emergency, global heating or whatever is primarily religious in nature, its not susceptible to rational argument. Its turned into something that people testify to without much thinking about the rationale. It has to do with being and being seen to be a right thinking good person with politically correct attitudes. You cannot change this by argument.

In the same way you will not make any impression on committed Muslims by offering them arguments drawn from Patricia Crone. And they will probably be right – its pretty much irrelevant to their concerns, which are to do with how society should function today.

Focus then on the current policy idiocies. And this is happening bit by bit. The real costs and the inefficacy of wind generation are getting reported on. The futility of having the West reduce CO2 emissions while China, India etc increase them as fast as economic growth requires, that also is getting publicity. See Tony Blair’s recent comments. A man who knows something about how to assess popular concerns and opinions.

This is where its going to fall to bits. The Guardian, WP and NYT will probably continue talking about global heating, and picking on some spot with very high temperatures to headline. Various UN officials will continue to talk about global boiling and the last chance to reduce emissions before the coming disaster happens. Handwaving and testifying will continue.

But in the background, as the real costs of moving to wind and solar become clear, the impossibility of actually doing it in the face of intermittency, the impossibility of moving everyone to heat pumps and EVs even with the current grid, and certain not while moving the grids to wind and solar…. as all that becomes ever clearer, the basis of the movement will fall to bits. And you will get things like the recent UK decision to exploit North Sea oil and gas. And the striking statement by UK Labour that they will not reverse the new licenses if they are elected.

Focus on policy. There you can make some progress, and where there is already a wave building. Its much more possible to point out that there is no plan to deal with intermittency in wind generation than it is to argue about the MWP and what it does or does not show. The mania will die of itself, very slowly, and with many convulsions. But it will die as the connection to policy withers.

Focus on policy. That’s where the leverage is. And that is where the real costs are being incurred.

Reply to  michel
August 2, 2023 2:24 am

People will wake up very sharply once they have to pay from their own pockets and find their personal freedoms curtailed by the Green diktats. Perhaps it is already happening – the recent anti-ULEZ protests in London have been remarkably fierce.

Reply to  Graemethecat
August 2, 2023 7:42 am

If this summer in the UK is anything to judge by, it’s going to be a bleak winter here. At best, wet, cold and miserable. That will change many minds.

Reply to  michel
August 2, 2023 3:10 am

The policies are so obviously useless in regard to what they are claimed to be about that, it seems, any thinking person would come to believe they are about something else entirely. This is, I believe, very uncomfortable for a great many people, too uncomfortable to pursue.

Reply to  AndyHce
August 2, 2023 7:44 am

it seems, any thinking person would come to believe they are about something else entirely.

ULEZ in London has nothing to do with climate or air quality. It’s Khan’s desperate effort to raise money to prop his disaster that is TFL.

Reply to  HotScot
August 2, 2023 8:59 am

I suppose TFL means something to people in London. Here in the southwest USA, not so much.

Reply to  AndyHce
August 2, 2023 9:24 am

Transport For London

Reply to  HotScot
August 2, 2023 7:15 pm


It doesnot add up
Reply to  HotScot
August 3, 2023 2:27 pm

Collateral damage from covid lockdowns and the trend for working from home rather than commuting. It’s also hitting office property: plenty of vacant floors in Canary Wharf these days. Faster internet is the enabler.

Reply to  michel
August 2, 2023 7:40 am

The Guardian, WP and NYT will probably continue talking about global heating

When they figure it’s to their advantage, they will move onto something else.

August 2, 2023 1:29 am

For those of us drowning in this sea of global warming nonsensical propaganda it is immeasurably important for our mental health that you write your articles. Without them we would be isolated and doubting our own sanity, which is where the new world order freaks want us. We are gradually winning the war for truth in science but losing the battle against something much bigger. Anti global warming continues to be the excuse for actively destroying the Canadian economy and our rights and way of life, but it is clear that the warmunists neither understand nor actually care about climate science. The battle isn’t to win the minds of the Schwabian zealots over to the truth but rather to awaken the sheeple to what they are really losing. When we see the enormous backlashes against the green justification for social reconstruction that are taking place in Germany and the Netherlands, there is hope that the tide is turning. Please harness your fortitude and keep writing.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  BCBill
August 2, 2023 4:15 am

“For those of us drowning in this sea of global warming nonsensical propaganda it is immeasurably important for our mental health that you write your articles.”


Luke B
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 3, 2023 10:18 pm

Maybe we need an AI-powered climate nonsense refuter?

August 2, 2023 2:06 am

You (all of you) have made huge contributions. Though they will likely never be repeated or even acknowledged by any legacy media. But that doesn’t matter. The age of legacy media is over, alternative media punches well above its weight and provides a critical drag against the relentless propaganda. All it takes is a glimmer of truth for people to cling to. What you do is not pointless, it’s vital.

That is why we are seeing seemingly coordinated efforts to stymie free speech in the Western world recently. The propagandists are losing and are going to try for full authoritarian control. They must not succeed. But if they do, we must continue to speak the truth, and more importantly to not speak what we know to be lies. To continue to keep the pursuit of truth alive in the darkness.

August 2, 2023 2:20 am

“Are we all wasting our time with climate science?”

Unfortunately, What’s Up With That is spending time, effort and money preaching to the converted. Small potatoes compared with what is being wasted fighting “global warming” but potatoes just the same.

In other news, Bill Gates was just on CBS Sunday Morning …
Bill Gates on next-generation nuclear power technologyhttps://www.cbsnews.com/news/bill-gates-terrapower-nuclear-power-technology/

Reply to  rovingbroker
August 2, 2023 7:37 am

Unfortunately, What’s Up With That is spending time, effort and money preaching to the converted.

I was a climate convert thanks to WUWT many years ago.

There is another one posting further down the comments here.

Who knows how many more read but don’t contribute?

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 2, 2023 11:52 am

I recently discovered something similar. Surely you aren’t suggesting that WUWT is being shadow banned? 🙂

August 2, 2023 2:28 am

How Dare You

…even think that the fight is over and does not need to be continued.

The MSM has been on a full-court press attack over the last few months.

Massive hype and ridiculous scare after ridiculous scare.

It is up to all of us to continue to fight back in any way that we can.

People are just starting to wake up to reality…

We must continue. !

August 2, 2023 2:31 am

I don’t know what more you might find to say but, for my level up understanding, you have made a number of very insightful reports, providing details, in clear terms, that I have not seen anywhere else. I really appreciate your essays.

There is something I would like to see. Some people undoubtedly know it. Maybe there are (unknown to me) web sites that fully document the process but everything I’ve found so far expects the user to already know a great deal about it. I’ve made requests to a few people who seem to know how to do this thing but got no useable replies.

Supposedly the daily raw data from a large number of weather stations is available on-line. I would like to be able to
locate the appropriate station(s) for a city or region I choose,
download the data,
import it into a spreadsheet,
make a graph of the data,
and calculate the trend.
I want to do this separately for maximum, minimum, temperature.
I would like to also be able to use the maximum and minimum data to calculate the average, if that involves anything other than the obvious way simple averages are calculated.
I would be most interested in 30 year samples of the daily values but would like to be able to choose longer or shorter periods as I require.
Then I would also like to be able to do the same operations for the “official” adjusted data for the same station(s).

The last two spreadsheet steps, after the spreadsheet contains the data, are probably dependent on the spreadsheet and probably reasonably documented for the spreadsheet itself but I’m not sure as the few attempts (completely different data) I’ve made attempting to follow the documentation for the spreadsheet I use seems to have missing instructions. I know how to import a few formats into a spreadsheet but I have not found temperature data files that I can understand.

What is needed, at least for someone on my level, is step by step instructions, assuming nothing, that find the proper web site, find the data files, download the data files in a useable format (or download into some other, unknown to me program, that translates them into a spreadsheet useable format). At least one real example of every step would be needed, with no little (obvious?) parts missing so that one could do exactly what the example shows and come up with exactly the same result.

I don’t know if this is something you do or if it interests you to bother, but I think it would be a good thing.

Reply to  AndyHce
August 2, 2023 3:05 am

The value I see in this is that, as reported many times, the raw data is often far different than the final official result. I know some people who have finally come to believe that they are experiencing more and more unbearable heat and that many people are dying of high temperatures. Maybe showing them the measurements and the trends, often near zero or even negative, for the places they think they know, will spark a little independent thinking.

David Dibbell
Reply to  AndyHce
August 2, 2023 4:17 am

I find that Tony Heller’s work has come closest to what you are describing if what you are interested in is a way to view the directly reported daily data. Try https://realclimatetools.com/

For my own research, I learned R and wrote R scripts to assimilate and process the published daily and monthly data, especially Tmax and Tmin by station for the U.S., into usable form for analysis and plotting. It takes a lot of work, but it is possible. This cannot be done with spreadsheets. The source files must be parsed/examined programmatically to extract the data of interest for further analysis. Examples of what can be done can be seen here. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1dKdcrDb1619vJM9U2xWRAKZoxoD8hg42?usp=sharing

Reply to  David Dibbell
August 2, 2023 7:19 pm

Thanks for the download contents. I will have to see if I what I can make of them.

I looked at the posting when Tony Heller introduced his attractive graphs a while back. I probably didn’t read closely enough to get everything but I though he was just talking about what he developed and what he could do with it. I didn’t get the idea that he was providing the method for anyone to use for their own interests. Did I miss that part?

Sometimes the data and graphs that people present in articles are interesting but what I want is a method to look at the specifics that interest me at any given moment, regardless of its relevance to anyone else. Observing or collecting the graphs and finished results that articles and websites present is very unlikely to fulfill very many of my goals.

I can’t gainsay what you said about using spreadsheets but I would prefer not to try to reinvent the wheel, as the saying goes, if it isn’t really necessary. Spreadsheets are capable of creating various graphs and plots from spreadsheet data and include a large number of statistical tools. They might not be the best for my interests but then they might be adequate.

As to whether or not the on-line data can be imported into spreadsheets in order to work with it, various articles, while not providing directions, certainly have given me the idea that their presentations data came that way. Jim Steele, in particular, presented an article for comment that he intended to try to make a chapter of material he was trying to prepare for school instruction, I believe somewhere around junior high school.

It was about exactly one of the things I want to do. Its instructions to the student were to pick the weather stations of interest to them, download the data into an excel spreadsheet, produce the graphs and trend lines. He presented a number of examples of finished results by choosing a number of stations in a smallish region and producing the raw data graphs and trends for each, all of which showed long term cooling or no trend at all, then compared that with the NOAA final results for the same stations, all showing distinct warming trends. The ‘lesson’ certainly gave the impression that his examples were created in exactly the way he specified the student should do so.

My comment to the article was that he need to have one or two step by step examples, leaving out no details, of how to download the data and produce a graph and trend as I was unable to get even the first step from what he wrote. Some high school students might be much better at figuring it out, but I think not many.

I don’t recall if he replied in any way at all but certainly not as an agreement with the idea. Recently I looked at his site to see if he had appropriately updated or supplemented the article. Perhaps I didn’t know how to find even the right article, but what I did find was an simplified version of the original. It instructed the teacher to download the data in spreadsheet form for the students to copy and work with. Again there was no how to part. I had a few good school science and math teachers but I also had some who were generally unable to address anything that wasn’t in their syllabus.

David Dibbell
Reply to  AndyHce
August 3, 2023 5:04 am

“…but what I want is a method to look at the specifics that interest me at any given moment, regardless of its relevance to anyone else.” 

This NOAA web function allows custom data queries, with an option for .csv output, which can be imported to a spreadsheet. I just tried it for Chenango County NY for daily summary data for the stations within the county for 2023 through July. A link to the .csv file was sent to me via e-mail. It appears that the queries can be for any country in the GHCN. Try it and see how you make out.


About the realclimatetools link I provided – Yes, Tony Heller intends this for anyone to use. I have found it slow to respond, but maybe I am doing something wrong.

About the link to the google drive site, this is just an illustration of what sort of outputs can be generated efficiently using R.

Steve Case
Reply to  AndyHce
August 2, 2023 6:37 am

Try NOAA’s Climate at a Glance Save your data and see how historical data changes over time. For Example:

Los Angeles 2017 vs 2020.jpg
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 2, 2023 7:40 pm


Thanks for replying. I’m probably too lazy to do everything I should have done by now, particularly as it is for satisfying curiosity more than providing any necessity. I have checked a few websites where one can make selections and produce graphs but none of those were able (as least as far as I could tell) to satisfy my particular desires. They provided only a limited selection of possible data for use (they had to get it from somewhere else). I don’t expect anyone to do the work for me but if someone has already done the work for their own use, it would be nice if they would share.

I have written quite a few detailed user documentations for office workers and factory floor supervisors, so know how to meet the requirements. However, I already knew how to do the tasks before writing the documentation. Mostly I had programed them myself so was in no doubt about what was necessary to successfully use them without error or confusion. Since there are many similar graphs and trends presented in articles, the possibility exist that step by step instructions exist somewhere. Maybe even useable without a large budget for design and implementation tools.

Luke B
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 3, 2023 10:39 pm

If conservatives ever regain power in Canada or the States, I really hope that there will be financial penalties (less funding) for any government entity that “loses” such records or doesn’t allow access to them. (I can dream, right?)

Incidentally, it’s kind of funny how much it annoyed certain people when I told them that results based on data that I’m not allowed to access might as well not be based on a single thing (and sometimes, in fact, are not).

August 2, 2023 2:52 am


I have been at this for at least as long as you, I think, I can’t remember now.

I have written one article for this site and it was very well received, I’m happy to report, and I consider it a badge of honour that I have contributed at least something to the debate.

However, I came here with one single question:

Is there credible, empirical, scientific evidence that atmospheric CO2 causes the planet to warm catastrophically?

I’m still searching.

No one would blame you for ‘retiring’ from the debate. You are not only incredibly well informed, you are also the most responsive contributor on this site and have humoured even my daft questions with good grace.

Thank you, whatever you decide to do.

Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 2, 2023 3:21 pm


Thank you. I’m still searching.

I’ll let you know though…….

Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 2, 2023 3:57 pm


Thank you. I’m still searching.

I’ll let you know though; by Satphone, when you’re sunning yourself on ‘your’ yacht that ought to be ‘mine’, were we living in a socialist commune* where wealth redistribution is the norm, and I’m broke.

I’ll reverse the charges and, I’m afraid, you’ll have no choice but to pay them as well…….

Because I’m broke and you’re not.

Long live zee revolution!

*Which we’re skating around in the west, just not quite there – yet.

PS I love sailing. We had a number of yachts when my family lived in Hong Kong, and my brother in law was an Olympic and World competitor in the 80’s in Bermuda.

We were invited onto his sailing partners yachts in Bermuda for an exclusive days sailing (no tourist’s – other than us), one of which was used to smuggle dissident Jews from the USSR in the 60’s/70’s. Now called Rock Steady.


And the other, The Spirit of Bermuda which is a training yacht for the less well privileged on the island, and sails to Europe.


There is nothing quite like sailing.

(Sorry, got cut off, tried to edit my last post but was too late).

Geoff Sherrington
August 2, 2023 3:16 am

My opposition to poor climate science started in 1992.
Been going ever since.
Never give in.
Value the lives of your children and theirs.
This green stuff is disgusting, ingnorant crap.
Geoff S

Reply to  Geoff Sherrington
August 2, 2023 12:07 pm

Phil Jones did it for me. What true scientist would refuse to let another see his data because “You’ll just try to find something wrong with it.”? If one was secure in his data, wouldn’t he say, “Here it is. Take a good look, and you’ll see my conclusions are correct. Marvel at my brilliance!”

That’s when I said, “Oh, something is going on here. . . “

August 2, 2023 3:27 am

This is my first time posting at WUWT, but I have been reading the site for about a month now. Please keep up the good work! I consider myself a “recovering alarmist” and this site is like my therapy. My feeds are constantly flooded with doom and gloom and it can be overwhelming, when I start to feel the alarm creeping in I come to WUWT for some common sense and facts. I think having a good number of daily articles is necessary and still a drop in the warming ocean of total media on the topic /sarc. I consider myself a fairly intelligent/educated person and fairly recently got a graduate degree in Computer Science, but I don’t think I have the base science knowledge to really properly digest published papers and therefore, I greatly appreciate the accessibility and “common man” approach contributions that are made here.

Reply to  Jonny5
August 2, 2023 7:24 am

Welcome to the dark side. 😉

I think a good starting point is to understand the ‘debate’ (Like we get a say) has moved well beyond science. It’s now deeply entrenched in politics.

I’m a layman with no recognised higher education and it took me asking a lot of really daft questions on here to learn. People have always been generous with their time, knowledge and humour.

I can only discuss/explain climate issues in layman’s terms, which is actually a big advantage as 90%+ of the worlds population don’t have a higher education far less a scientific one.

When we discuss the subject with others it can’t be done in scientific terms. We need to express it in ways the layman can understand. And unless you want to lose friends at an alarming rate, understand when to stop.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 2, 2023 11:58 am

I’m reminded of Mark Twain’s quip, “If you don’t read the newspaper, you are uninformed; if you do, you are misinformed.” Obviously, the attempt to manipulate the public has been going on for a long time.

Writing Observer
Reply to  Jonny5
August 2, 2023 1:03 pm

I don’t have the slightest idea of just what is taught in CS departments these days – but, if it was anything like my day, you have at least learned that accuracy =/= precision, or vice versa. Also that, no matter what computations you apply to the numbers, you CANNOT affect either one in a positive manner, only degrade both of them by propagating the errors.

One book that is still in my library, although I am retired now, is “Introduction to Numerical Methods” – you can tell that it is quite old (published 1970) by the fact that all coding examples are in FORTRAN.

The VERY FIRST chapter is all about accuracy, precision, and error propagation – which the author considered to be the essential FOUNDATION for all of the succeeding chapters.

August 2, 2023 3:34 am

Should I just sit back down and shut up? No!


Should I keep banging away, just because ‘someone has to’?

Yes, but not “because someone has to”, but because persistent repetition of the truth will continue to erode the facade of lies.

Progress is being made. The growing intensity of the vilification of dissenters and skeptics is testament both to growing awareness of the falsity of the Green doom-mongering and their inability to admit or recognise their errors.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 2, 2023 12:00 pm

Kip, think of it this way: If you are being ignored, you are not considered a threat. If you are being vilified, they are very concerned.

Writing Observer
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 2, 2023 1:07 pm

Just go back to the home page… Anthony has a permanent quote for this, originating with Andrew Breitbart.

Walk toward the fire. Don’t worry about what they call you.

August 2, 2023 3:42 am

since gores clifi effort and cop in 09 like many here Ive been vocal and shared the saner views on it
but yes I too am tired and wonder if we will win before I cark it.
going to surgery for 4 brain aneurysms next week,
guess if I make it out ok I will keep pluggin away,
we cant just sit back and watch them screw the societies worked so hard for to go to custard.
every comment every shared webpage here etc is a fight back

Reply to  ozspeaksup
August 2, 2023 4:12 pm

I don’t mean to incite controversy here, nor invade your privacy, but did you take any Covid vaccines?

Now you come to mention Gore, I began my inquiry into the climate change scam shortly after his ‘presentation’. I have been on WUWT, getting on for 20 years, I guess.

You are in my thoughts. Get well soon mate.

Mark BLR
August 2, 2023 4:25 am

Are we all wasting our time with climate science?

Time that you enjoy “wasting” isn’t (necessarily) wasted time.

Should I just sit back down and shut up?


Even if sometimes you are limited to a “Here are 5 or 6 links going back a decade (or three) of me already ‘thoroughly debunking’ this specific issue”, you post enough “interesting” … to me at least … stuff in addition to that to be worth seeking out.

Note that this applies to several posters both ATL and BTL here, especially Willis Eschenbach.

NB : I personally also include Nick Stokes in this category. Although he is often “selective” in his point of view, when asked he has provided pointers to data several times in the past which have allowed me to work out exactly how he was “cherry-picking” the data !

I have cumulatively “wasted” quite a bit of time in those exercises, but I also ended up learning quite a lot from working out for myself the details of how people should not “interpret” the (complete) datasets.

Should I keep banging away, just because ‘someone has to’?

Yes you should keep “banging away”, but not for that reason.

You should keep doing it as long as you enjoy “wasting” your time doing so.

You should do it because some other people, however few, react positively to your … “musings” (?).

One of the main reasons however, IMNSHO, is that personal development mostly happens when the “stimulating discussion” ends up completely overturning your original assumptions on an issue.

I have learned most during my (more than 5 decades of) existence from cycles of :
– (I think / believe that) X is true
– Someone on the Internet says X might not be true
– I change my “internal database” (/ spreadsheet) using an updated — or even a different / “better” — dataset of the variable under consideration
– “Hmmmmm … that’s odd …”
– Well [ bleepety bleepety bleep ] ! I was actually wrong all this time !
– (I think / believe that) X is definitely false … and Y is “true” (for now) instead
– Repeat … ad infinitum

As long as you can contribute to that (continuous) process for yourself … and other people … by all means keep “banging away”.

Is what we do worthwhile?  Yes — It is always worthwhile to do what is right, to do what is good, to tell the truth, to fight the good fight against falsehoods and lies.


It takes an emotional toll to get through the “***I*** was wrong all this time” phases … which are only partially compensated for by the (much rarer, in my case) “Well that showed them !” moments … but it’s definitely worthwhile in the end.

August 2, 2023 4:41 am

It may be the case that the fight against alarmism is one that will take decades to win but can be lost at any moment. It’s hard to predict what would have happened without all these skeptical voices keeping the spotlight on the alarmism and outright falsehoods blindly repeated in mainstream sources. What would have transpired if M&M did not slow the intended momentum of the hockey stick? Would Copenhagen have been the intended springboard for action if ClimateGate emails were not released and analyzed here? Would Congressional committees have found people like Dr. Curry without her voice being amplified by writings on this and other blogs?

I personally use your writings, and the many dozens of others here and elsewhere (Curry, Pielke Jr,, etc.), as a way to share these ideas with others in my circle, often in a professional setting to push back against magical thinking and plain bad logic of some policy proposals (government work, please don’t hold that against me). WUWT and other places like it provide a solid foundation in facts, particularly being well-armed with a reply to the latest alarmist talking point of the day, and that makes a real difference. The cumulative effect of people like me sharing your ideas in a coffee shop, or as the basis for asking critical questions in a boardroom, is hard to measure but I believe significant.

Simon Derricutt
August 2, 2023 4:45 am

Kip – your essays here have been good, so please continue when you find something that you wish to bring up. Always thoughtful.

Science does tend to self-correct, after a while of heading down the wrong path. It takes a while to change a paradigm (often funeral by funeral) since generations grow up believing what they’ve been told was the truth rather than seeing the evidence in front of them. It’s normally a minority that re-interpret the evidence and thus change their views on what’s actually happening, and normally to begin with they are castigated as wrong-thinkers.

The majority of people I know believe in CAGW and that we can fix the problem by reducing CO2 emissions. Not a day goes by without some reinforcement of that belief by some news item claiming that the latest weather event was because of human-emitted CO2. Propaganda is used because it works, but the newsreaders and editors actually also believe that it’s true (they have to keep saying it, after all, and repetition of some belief often enough makes the belief stronger, which is why in churches the Catechism is repeated by the congregation each time).

It’s not really about science, but beliefs. In reality, we can’t predict the weather or the climate any more than a few days into the future, and to believe that any prediction is more than a guess is actually pretty ridiculous. We can look at the past and make a guess about where things are heading, but we don’t know all the variables or how they interact. Do cosmic rays affect cloud formation, and will that vary over time as the Earth progresses through the galactic space? Does the meteor dust affect cloud formation? Do airborne bacteria affect cloud formation, and does that vary over time? Will our variable sun change either spectrum or power output in future? Could well be stuff we haven’t even thought of or haven’t measured that will affect the climate in future.

It’s pretty obvious from Willis’ analyses that CO2 and Global Average Temperature are not correlated on long timescales (thousands to millions of years), though it does look like warmer times precede increases inCO2, as would be expected from Henry’s law and that around 98% of the CO2 is in the ocean, not the atmosphere. It’s also obvious from history that in warmer times the living was easier and civilisations flourished, and that colder times brought hardship. A bit warmer than now would be absolutely fine. However, weather is still chaotic, and thus at any time we can have weather disasters (drought, too wet, too windy, too hot or too cold). Blame it on not sacrificing enough virgins, and it’s around the same value as blaming it on too much CO2.

Why did we get warmer periods and the Little Ice Age? We don’t actually know, which is a reason for trying to say that the MWP wasn’t global but only local weather. Ignore the evidence you can’t explain….

The CAGW (or Global Boiling) belief is huge and, like a massive ocean liner, will take a long time to turn around. Hang on to that rudder for long enough, and it will turn. Yep, there’s an iceberg in view, but we might miss it.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Simon Derricutt
August 2, 2023 12:06 pm

… it does look like warmer times precede increases inCO2, as would be expected from Henry’s law

It isn’t just Henry’s Law at work. The seasonal ramp-up phase of CO2 is greatest in the Fall through early-Spring. It is the activity of bacteria and dormant-tree respiration responsible for that, which is increased by higher tempratures.

Joseph Zorzin
August 2, 2023 4:54 am

“Yet the jury is still out on how much of an impact on climate policy and public opinion this site, and the dozen or so other high impact climate skeptic websites, blogs, podcasts, etc., have made and will make.”

Well, I can say that here in Woke-achusetts, it’s having zero impact. Almost nobody in this state reads these sites. Anyone out there besides me in this state? Don’t all raise your hands at once. And few from the rest of New England.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 2, 2023 2:28 pm

Not sure I follow you. How would I see the IPs? I think I’ve read most comments for about the last 3 years and can’t recall anybody actually saying they’re from MA. I think I recall a few from CT and a few from VT. I wonder about the “lurkers”. Are they just trying to learn? Are they wondering what the enemy is up to? Are they too timid to say anything to protect their career? Of course they don’t need their real name for a handle so they could hide who they are. I guess we’ll never know.

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
August 2, 2023 4:15 pm

All of the above mate.

You are not alone.

Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
August 2, 2023 4:14 pm

You never know who is on this site under the bedsheets……..

August 2, 2023 4:59 am

No, Kip, keep going. Giving up is just what the Climate Chicken Lickens want us to do…

Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 2, 2023 4:32 pm

There is a new dawn mate.

Biden is torturing Americans, we in the UK are worse under our last 14 years of a conservative government.

But it’s all coming down.

There is a job yet, to build things up again. To extract us from the mire of climate doom.

It’s being expressed in the UK on dissident channels, including one ‘mainstream’ GB News, as Peak Net Zero.

We have two champions of sane politics in the west. Donald Trump and Nigel Farage.

Their popularity is in the ascendancy, not least because Nigel is taking on the British Banking establishment in a very public way over de-banking, as Trump is taking on the establishment over de-politicking.

Neither support NetZero.

There is a new fight to be fought, it’s political, not scientific.

You have earned your retirement from the fray.

Tom in Florida
August 2, 2023 5:15 am

Folks such as yourself are necessary. I think perhaps you believe you do not make a difference but you do. At times you probably feel under appreciated.
But I also believe that the one prong approach, using facts and data only, is not going to work. The warmist’s agenda includes massive marketing of their position, propaganda if you will, and it is highly successful. It is successful because most people will not take the time to learn the facts and the science, most of that is over their heads so they ignore it. They focus on the emotional side. It is Sales 101, you don’t sell the steak, you sell the sizzle. And the warmists have been selling the sizzle, literally, for quite a while. Until that is matched by the same effort, the scaremongers will continue to win.
Jefferson et al wrote in the Declaration of Independence, that “all experience hath shown, that Mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves…”.
So until people get hammered in their wallets enough, they will not change their opinion enough to take action. Hopefully it will not be too late by then.

August 2, 2023 5:23 am


I would have to say the most important lesson that I’ve gleaned from WUWT is that The Climate (singular, worldwide) does not exist. The term has been arbitrarily defined as an average of 30 years of “global” air temperatures (GAT), but the GAT exists nowhere on the planet; no person anywhere can experience or dwell within it. A strong second lesson is that the GAT itself cannot be measured, even though people fool themselves into believing that it can be quantified. And even if it could be reliably measured, average air temperature conveys little information about actual climates (plural).

Reply to  karlomonte
August 2, 2023 7:31 am

As far as I can ascertain, the term climate was used to explain to schoolchildren the difference between local, regional and national weather patterns, across continents.

Barnes Moore
August 2, 2023 5:33 am

While frustrating, I think it is important to continue talking about the science while also pointing out the socioeconomic impacts of climate policy. While I doubt I make any difference and get attacked routinely, I comment on articles in the WSJ and other blogs and frequently cite articles from WUWT – posts like Willis E’s Bright Green Impossibilites/Bright Green California Dreaming and Where’s the Climate Emergency (along with the numerous other posts re: the emergency), along with articles by Mark Mills and the cost analysis done by Ed Hoskins – there is a site somewhere (I lost the link and have been unsuccessful finding it again) that provides a nice summary of failed predictions with the date the prediction was made, if the time has passed or not, the result and some other info. There are many lists, but the one I am looking for was particularly telling.

We are certainly swimming against a strong tide, but we have to keep fighting. It is depressing though to read articles like these:




I’ve repeated this several times – it will likely take some mass casualty event that can only be blamed on over-reliance on unreliables to wake people up who are not paying attention. I doubt it will have any affect on true believers – which includes most of the media.- who will simply claim that if we had more unreliables, the problem would have been averted.

All that being said, there does seem to be some sanity creeping into the conversation in the UK and a couple of other countries. Meanwhile, Putin and Xi are ROFL at the stupidity of western “leaders” as the race to out do each other in implementing policies that will destroy their economies while doing nothing to “save the planet”.

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Barnes Moore
August 2, 2023 9:38 am
Barnes Moore
Reply to  Dave Andrews
August 2, 2023 10:36 am

Thanks Dave – that’s the one! I won’t lose it this time.

Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 2, 2023 4:34 pm

Even griff. Largely……

Although he no longer contributes.

Coach Springer
August 2, 2023 5:59 am

The objective is not to convince everyone of your viewpoint. Or to win the majority. It’s to get some of them to address reality. Eventually. Until the truth and the cycle of human mass psychology intersect. Mass psychology and truth because policy is entirely political marketing while we hold none of those cards.

On a related note, it feels like we’ve made strides due largely to economic reality dawning on people and the passage of time revealing failed predictions. AT the same time, it seems like all the skeptical climate scientists are aging and dying with few if any replacements.

Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 2, 2023 4:47 pm

If every climate sceptic in the world retired tomorrow, the indisputable fact is, ‘the climate’ will win.

August 2, 2023 6:24 am

Yes, but do not expect to change minds. Persuasion is difficult with the disinterested and nearly impossible with the “true believers” of the climate change cult. Instead of measuring your contribution by a shift in societal sentiment, look instead to the moral support which you provide to people who are interested in truth revealed through honest scientific endeavors.

August 2, 2023 6:29 am

Climate change is discussed on all sorts of websites and forums, not necessarily scientifically oriented ones. WUWT has been a great resource for those of us seeking information and frankly ammunition, but that doesn’t do much until it is communicated to a broader audience. Informed people such as I find here need to not only commune with fellow believers but go out into the world and evangelize. Post comments challenging the conventional narratives on political and social media sites, even if you have to hold your nose while doing so. There are many people, especially young people, who are interested and open to learning, but have never heard the facts. They don’t know WUWT exists, and will never find us, so we have to take the facts to them.

Tom Halla
August 2, 2023 6:35 am

It is politics, and the willingness to keep repeating oneself is needed.

August 2, 2023 6:40 am

Kip, do not stop. However, we need to show that there is absolutely zero proof that CO2 is the primary driver of climate change. I have looked high and low for a scientifically derived, peer reviewed paper that says so. Yes, it may contribute a very miniscule, again not proven, amount to climate change, but you are right, we are beating a dead horse.

Steve Case
August 2, 2023 6:54 am

And then, the Summaries for Policy Makers (SPMs) wildly misrepresent what the

science sections have said and transmogrify it into something barely recognizable.”


“The 1995 IPCC draft report said, “Any claims of positive detection of significant climate change are likely to remain controversial until uncertainties in the total natural variability of the climate system are reduced.” It also said, “No study to date has positively attributed all or part of observed climate changes to anthropogenic causes.” Those statements were removed, and in their place appeared: “The balance of evidence suggests a discernable human influence on climate.”
                                                                                                                Michael Critchten lecture

John Aqua
August 2, 2023 7:06 am

Keep up the good work if you can and still have the energy. We need clear thinkers and contra-propogandists to keep the flame alive.

J Boles
August 2, 2023 7:16 am

2 deg C (maybe) in 100 years and they think that is the end of the world? And yet they all keep on using FF every day? Mental illness is a much bigger problem than I thought.

Rud Istvan
August 2, 2023 7:28 am

Kip, keep fighting.
The alarmist momentum is large because so many careers and dollars are at stake. But it is palpably slowing, and time is on our side. There are a number of indicia:

  1. None of the ‘disaster’ predictions supposed to have occurred by now have come true. Glacier National Park still has glaciers. GBR didn’t die.
  2. As a result of (1) the public becomes more jaded, so the alarms become ever shriller and easier to ridicule (Alinsky rule#5).
  3. Renewables have reached grid penetrations in many places where their grievous faults —intermittency and lack of grid inertia— become apparent to the average citizen. Eventually there will be major blackouts; itbis only a question of when, not if.
  4. China and India won’t play, so western mitigation is an exercise in futility.
  5. Some of the policies in place—net zero, ban ICE by 2035, ban gas stoves—are obviously destined to eventually fail bigly. This will cut the money if not the careers.
abolition man
August 2, 2023 7:33 am

In answer to your first question; NO!! In the immortal words of Commander Peter Quincy Taggart; “Never give up, never surrender!”
As far as the second question; maybe take a break. All of the repetitive, mind-numbing media can cause anyone to lose heart at times! I’d recommend sailing away to someplace exotic and peaceful, but it seems that that is already taken. How about reading Kipling’s “If,” then take a nice long walk. Remember that even the alarmists that come to this site are slowly getting their minds changed; look at the pretzels they have to produce to explain their “reasoning!”
Take a big, deep breath; and look at the beauty all around you! We are living in the Modern Climate Optimum, and only an idiot, an ignoramus or the criminally insane would try to profit from selling children a scawy story!

Luke B
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 3, 2023 10:49 pm

Very neat.

August 2, 2023 7:59 am

People have been coasting on this issue for years, always thinking that the heavy lifting will be done by others. Now coming to realize that their standard of living is about to be demolished, there is an awakening, and a backlash. Kip your work is necessary, more so now than ever.

Bill Pekny
August 2, 2023 8:02 am

Hi, Kip. Please do keep banging away. It’s a labor of love, especially for our children and grandchildren . . .

Leo Smith
August 2, 2023 8:04 am

Climate science so called is not science.
peoPle are waking up to the fact its largely overhyped scare propganada, and it doesnt take a lot of intelligence – in fact in some ways the less you have the less likely are you to get caught up in the narrative – bullshit baffles brains – but the simple minded assume they are being taken advantage of – to work out that a lot of people are making a lot of money out of it and the ordinary citizen is footing the bill.

Reply to  Leo Smith
August 2, 2023 9:48 am

I’ve pointed out all the money going to big corporations and all the influence they buy with that money to keep it flowing. The response was “that is only normal business practice. Only Big Oil does it out of evil intentions and against the public good”.

August 2, 2023 8:15 am

Kip –

I am an economist whose entire career (40 years) has been in the energy industry – electric utilities, regulator, energy policy, etc. I write a lot about the idiocy of renewables, especially offshore wind. Since I started, energy policy in the US has been idiotic, with politicians and advocates spewing stuff that makes one shake one’s head. For example, Washington state imposed a carbon cap-and-trade system in January and, surprise!, gasoline prices have increased. The politicians are denouncing the refineries and wholesalers for colluding and price gouging. I dealt with the same claims over 30 years when I worked for the state. As for my more recent writings, I get denounced as on Exxon’s and the Koch Brothers’ payroll (I wish!), etc. It is frustrating and at times I feel like “What’s the point?” But we must keep trying. It’s the only possible approach because the alternative–giving in to the idiots, charlatans, and grifters–means we will return to a Hobbsian feudal society. I don’t want that, especially for my kids and grandkids.

Hans Erren
August 2, 2023 8:20 am

Kip, keep up the good work, simply repost if you have told us before! Always worth the read.

John Hultquist
August 2, 2023 8:27 am

TIP:  https://grist.org/culture/climate-change-polar-bears-symbol-history/

I just sent a note to Susan C., maybe she will write a review of this Grist article.

August 2, 2023 8:34 am

My replay to you question: “Should I keep banging away, just because ‘someone has to’?”


Winston Churchill expressed it most eloquently, even when the future appeared bleak:
“We shall not flag nor fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France and on the seas and oceans; we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air. We shall defend our island whatever the cost may be; we shall fight on beaches, landing grounds, in fields, in streets and on the hills. We shall never surrender and even if, which I do not for the moment believe, this island or a large part of it were subjugated and starving, then our empire beyond the seas, armed and guarded by the British Fleet, will carry on the struggle until in God’s good time the New World with all its power and might, sets forth to the liberation and rescue of the Old.”

Substitute the fight for the survival of science under the threat from ignorance in place of the fight of the survival of Great Britain under threat from Axis powers in Churchill’s speech, and you have the motivation needed to continue to fight the good fight.

Reply to  ToldYouSo
August 2, 2023 4:56 pm


Douglas Proctor
August 2, 2023 8:59 am

I’ve come to the same distressing point: regardless of the obvious facts I referenced, the alarmists don’t change their opinions and fears and desire to “do the right thing”. The political agents and media titans have produced an armored surface for their absurd announcements. I get blinking and turning away even to point out that, fir my felliw Albertans, the Little Ice Age was real and the signs are literally on the hiking trails we enjoy in our mountain parks.

I have given up … except I know lean in. Say that I’m enthusiastic about the terrible heat, fires and tornadoes and bad hurricanes, and HOPE they get even worse as fast as possible. Why? Because the authorities will justify an immediate cessation of fossil fuel usage. Because …

Because the sooner the madness of ending fossil fuels and nuclear power for solar and wind happens, the sooner people will realize it is madness. Urban deaths from heat/cold when the grid fails. Nobody but the rich can – and will continue to – travel, with economic ruin for tourism, even local jaunts. And if that isn’t enough, regimes invoking national crisis to reveal their authoritarian/fascist/Marxist agendas to “solve” CO2 usage ….. while China, India, Africa and the rich make no effort to stabiluze, let alone reduce, their CO2 output.

One of two things then happens. A revolutionary pragmatism steps in. The alarmists are exposed as grifters and power-hungry liars. The dream of a Good Life for ordinary citizens returns. Or the Gestapo state is enforced, which will punish these idiots who vote for the Green Autocrats, while we know that such dictatorial regimes don’t last, even if the end is painful.

Yeah, I’m both cynical and fed-up. I’m not seeing any success in overcoming the narratives of Rachel Maddows and Michael Manns. It seems fear generates a passion and energy and self importance that the great unwashed need to get out if bed each day. The latest game for their XBox doesn’t, unsurprisingly, do it.

Paul B
August 2, 2023 9:01 am

Perhaps the wrong tool has been chosen to wage this battle. You can pound a nail all day with a screwdriver and never drive the nail.

We are trying to change minds steeped in emotion with reason. I submit that reason must received by people who have the chops to understand it. Yet we have at least one and maybe two generations of citizens with abysmal educations, especially in science/math.

It’s a perfect storm of stupidity; from leaders, to press, to rent seekers. The ignorance is pervasive and deep. Until that is changed, our screwdrivers are useless.

Tom Ganley
August 2, 2023 9:28 am

I think going on about the science is just a waste of time anymore. There are so few people that will do what someone like Nick Stokes does, think, read and try and make a coherent argument. Everybody else I know that believes in the climate religion just calls you names.

The way you can get to them though, is show how much it costs. Hammer away at that and you may get somewhere. The articles you linked above all go to that point.

Then there is the human cost. Here’s an example. I was in Berlin a few weeks ago. I see an old lady at the grocery store Lidl, dragging a big bag of plastic bottles across the parking lot. In Germany there is a 25 cent deposit on any plastic bottle. Then there is a machine inside the store where you stuff the bottle in and it spits your 25 back out. And there is always a line.

I said to my German friend, what kind of people do that? Make your grannies drag trash through a parking lot and wait in line to stuff it into a machine?

‘Have you no shame?” or “How will our children ever pay for this?”. I think those will work better than any statistics you can come up with.

Good luck and thanks for your efforts to encourage sanity.

August 2, 2023 9:37 am

“Sit down and shut up!”. Wouldn’t the alarmists just love that. In order to be recognized and heard, one must stand up.

Dave Andrews
August 2, 2023 9:50 am

Kip, take a sabbatical, go sailing with your wife, refresh the batteries but please, please return here. Your posts are always thought provoking and worthwhile -as many here have testified.

August 2, 2023 10:10 am

Yes we are – the globes brightest should accept climate changes, always has, always will and simply look at mitigation and adaption techniques
Building new homes on known flood plains is sheer stupid, almost as stupid as trying to power a nation with intermittent wind & solar

Smart Rock
August 2, 2023 10:19 am

Dear Kip

You may feel jaded, discouraged and hopeless. You may feel that it’s all a thankless, pointless task. You may feel that you’re not making a difference. You may feel like Sisyphus, pushing that damned boulder up the hill, only to watch it roll down again.

But try to take courage from the fact that you are part of a small group of thinkers who are doing The Right Thing. Not because you will benefit from it in any way, just because it is The Right Thing. You are helping to create and maintain an island of light,sanity, logic and reason in the endless darkness of hysteria masquerading as information, and propaganda masquerading as science. Every light that goes out means that the darkness closes in just a little more, and the Climate Juggernaut gets a little closer to crushing us into forced conformity.

Try to take comfort from the fact that “climate” is only one front in a multi-pronged attack on the values that we think of as The Enlightenment. There are other isolated, embattled, loosely-knit groups of free thinkers trying to slow the onslaught of pernicious and destructive pseudo-philosophies that congregate under the umbrella we call “woke”. And real people are losing their reputations, their careers, their families, and even their freedom by trying to stand up against the onslaught of the rαce-gεnder-equity-pronoun machine. “We” are not alone.

Climate propaganda has gone into overdrive this last year. The dates that our leaders have set for net zero are getting closer. The endgame is fast approaching. Perhaps the whole thing will collapse under the weight of its own impossibility. Perhaps the Holocene interglacial will decide it’s time to quit. In any case, voices of sanity will be needed to help putting an end to the madness.

Thank you Kip, for your stimulating and informative contributions over the years. Stay strong, stay free, keep it up as long as you can. We need you, and all the others like you. There has to be a better future coming, even if we don’t know what it will look like.

Clyde Spencer
August 2, 2023 10:35 am


My first article published here on WUWT (out of 15) was in 2015; I had been commenting regularly for some time before that. My involvement in the environmental issues goes back farther, having written a fairly sophisticated deterministic computer model circa 1985, on my Amiga computer, to estimate the surface UV flux based on published Total Ozone Mapping Spectrometer data, taking into account astronomical alignments of the Earth to correct for path lengths, seasons, sun spots, and distance from the sun.

Like you, I’ve been feeling some burn out symptoms because the alarmist claims are like zombies. I think that I have killed one of the bigger zombies, only to turn around and discover it is back at my doorstep grunting the same malevolent, poorly supported, usually innumerate predictions, accompanied by much hand flailing.

I think that the core problem is that the mostly liberal ‘news’ media have pretty much got a lock on what the public reads (including politicians), and they see to it that the public reads their agenda on climate (and gun control). On the internet, the major news sources also started to censor comments about the time that COVID hit, often based on key words. The media, such as Yahoo, also regularly mix OpEds or Letters to the Editor with actual news. Laymen tend to get on the bandwagon, being unable to independently analyze the various claims and counter claims. Therefore, while it isn’t good science, dominating the discussion with one side of the story makes for good politics.

There are far too many practicing scientists who face the reality of “Publish or perish,” and find it easier to get published if they “go with the flow.” There are also issues with ‘peer review,’ which largely serves to act as gate keepers for the lucrative technical publishing business, insuring that they maintain credibiity, at the expense of suppressing anything that isn’t doctrinaire, and stifling creative thinking. Unfortunately, there are incidences where influential reviewers have corrupted the process even more to suppress views they disagree with.

I don’t see any simple solution(s) to the myriad problems, short of the public getting disgusted with being manipulated and lied to. I don’t have much hope for that happening during my lifetime.

Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 2, 2023 12:07 pm

Great comment Clyde
I am one of those ordinary folk, who on being battered with constant climate alarmism via MSM etc, decided to look deeper into it
My journey led me through many varied websites, reports, blogs, books etc, looking at both sides of the climate agenda, to find the truth, the facts
As a professional Electrical Engineer and HV Power Generation PM with many years hands on competence, I have always dealt in science fact, empirical data and long established laws and conventions – no one questions Newtons Laws of Motion, because the science really is settled, it’s proven fact, it is not consensus
After several years of questioning everything climate related, I have concluded the science is far from settled and consensus is no way to advance science and technology and ultimately human progress
I understand, from my competence in physics, mathematics and electrical engineering, how inept wind & solar power are, without sufficient storage, to power a nation, yet many ordinary folk do not and they are preyed upon by snake oil salesmen keen to make even more billions
We must fight the good fight, with all our might, like Scientists & Engineers with integrity do

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Energywise
August 2, 2023 8:13 pm

The acceptance of the “ordinary folk” of poorly supported claims of existential threats from ‘tipping points,’ suggests to me that there should be a great opportunity for used-bridge salesmen.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 2, 2023 8:09 pm

Thank you, Kip.

John Power
August 2, 2023 10:38 am

You say: ‘But are we making an impact? I can no longer tell – I am having a little bit of a “I think I’m burnt-out” stage.’
If you cannot see what impact your actions are having on the situation then I think you are in the same position as a car-driver who cannot tell whether or not the direction in which he’s chosen to travel is really taking him any closer to his intended destination. In that case, I think it is probably wisest to take a break for a while for some well-deserved R&R and to gather fresh information about your journey, where you’re really at on it, what you would need to do to complete it and whether or not you still want to do that anyway.
These questions cannot be answered in a moment – they require deep and careful consideration and only you can answer them, of course, so you need to take as long as it will take regardless of how long anyone might want you to take over it. And if you are beginning to think that you are suffering from ‘burn-out’ then I think that is another sign that you need to take a complete break from the ‘battle’ to restore your inner-strength and consider the next stage of your life-journey with a mind that is serene and free of care.

Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 2, 2023 5:08 pm


“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”

Mark Twain

Go sailing mate.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 2, 2023 8:20 pm

Kip, and I probably have fewer years left than you, unless I become a statistical ‘anomaly’ and become a centenerian.

August 2, 2023 11:31 am

As Churchill once said – ‘When you’re going through hell, keep going’
Kip, as a relative newcomer to WUWT, I would advise, keep going – the world and it’s people need as many saviours as possible in this brave new world
I don’t write papers etc like you do, but, having heavily researched both sides of the climate debate, I do realise the science is far from settled, that many alarmists are making big bucks from alarmism, that many people believe what the blob tells them to believe and many do not
I am always happy to get into debates with alarmists and pick apart their often regurgitated sound bites and ‘facts’, it’s not only fun, but you can change minds in the process – their often ad hominem attacks just show their lack of science, fact, data and integrity
in short, my advice is continue to make a difference, the alarmists are very tedious and wear you down I agree, but ordinary people, seeking information and guidance need our balance – not all heroes wear capes

Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 2, 2023 5:10 pm

Qualifications mean nothing.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 2, 2023 8:24 pm

… by accident I suppose, got invited before they realized.

Some of the greatest advances in science were the result of accidents. 🙂