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Have a good weekend!

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Tom.1
February 26, 2022 6:07 am

The war in Ukraine should make it clear how difficult, if not impossible, it is to expect international cooperation on controlling climate change (not to suggest that it would be possible if there were cooperation).

bonbon
Reply to  Tom.1
February 26, 2022 6:18 am

Controlling change is an oxymoron – see Heraclitus.

Tom.1
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 6:42 am

He never said that. That change is inevitable is not the same as saying you cannot have some influence.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Tom.1
February 26, 2022 6:51 am

you can have some influence over some things and very little over other things

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  Tom.1
February 26, 2022 8:02 am

“Having some influence over” falls far short of “controlling”.

Jim Gorman
Reply to  Tom.1
February 26, 2022 10:21 am

You can only influence your reaction to change. Change that is out of your control WILL occur and all you can do is mitigate its affect on you.

whiten
Reply to  Jim Gorman
February 26, 2022 11:42 am

Let me be blatant in this one.
No one can change any thing.
It is impossible.
Conceptually a paradox.

Making a difference possible, to a given degree.

cheers

bonbon
Reply to  whiten
February 26, 2022 12:19 pm

We have changed society utterly – with fire. Change is is our game!

whiten
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 1:31 pm

How can you validate a change?
(from a given)

bonbon
Reply to  whiten
February 26, 2022 3:52 pm

Vastly increased relative potential population density.
8 billion and counting!

whiten
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 5:32 pm

And that will be an observation basically related to the concept of time and motion.

lee riffee
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 10:43 am

Quote from the song “Tom Sawyer” by Rush – “Changes aren’t permanent, but change is.”

bonbon
Reply to  lee riffee
February 26, 2022 11:23 am

Rush must be Greek 🙂

whiten
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 11:27 am

Do not ‘– see Heraclitus’… under any circumstances!

🙂

cheers

bonbon
Reply to  whiten
February 26, 2022 12:20 pm

It’s all Greek to you.

whiten
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 1:48 pm

Nice one.

😉

Mark Pawelek
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 12:39 pm

I’m beginning to think the only purpose of the climate crisis/emergency narrative is to give us the illusion our politicians are in control of something. They can’t fix COVID, education, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Putin, or anything. But, in their imaginations, they can ‘fight climate change’.

philincalifornia
Reply to  Mark Pawelek
February 26, 2022 7:38 pm

You forgot potholes in roads …..

otropogo
Reply to  Mark Pawelek
February 26, 2022 9:33 pm

What I find incomprehensible is that people who all their lives have heard politicians lying to them shamelessly can think that such beings could ever be motivated by altruistic considerations or influenced by rational arguments.

TonyG
Reply to  otropogo
February 27, 2022 10:05 am

Equally incomprehensible is people who have heard those lies all their lives, yet continuing to believe the campaign promises.

fretslider
Reply to  Tom.1
February 26, 2022 6:46 am

“controlling climate change”

I just lurv the arrogance and hubris of that idea. It’s clear the Kerry-go-round didn’t see this coming. If anything, fossil fuels will be even more necessary and in demand. The greens/left think the answer to Putin’s aggression is… yes, more renewables:

“If you want to stand with the brave people of Ukraine, you need to find a way to stand against oil and gas”. – Bill McKibben

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/25/this-is-how-we-defeat-putin-and-other-petrostate-autocrats

That’s the sort of thinking that probably informed Putin’s decision to make his move. That, and Afghanistan – and the woke decay in the West.

Last edited 7 months ago by fretslider
Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  fretslider
February 26, 2022 6:58 am

I agree- the climatistas are the main cause for Putin to feel extremely confident to go into Ukraine.

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  fretslider
February 26, 2022 8:07 am

Bill McKibben’s ignorance about climate FACTS is exceeded only by his incredible ignorance about warfare, as clearly demonstrated by his statement quoted above.

philincalifornia
Reply to  Gordon A. Dressler
February 26, 2022 7:42 pm

I’m not so sure about that. This monumental nitwit thinks that 350ppm CO2 is all peachy and luvverly but 400ppm causes massive hurricanes and flooding and sh!t.

You definitely could not fix this cretin with a baseball bat.

niceguy
Reply to  fretslider
February 27, 2022 9:10 pm

This is not a “war for oil and gas” in the sense that too many of America’s Middle East misadventures might plausibly be described.

President Bush’s interventions in the Middle East might be plausibly described as “wars for oil and gas”?
Well, that’s usually how they were portrayed in Europe!

But how much oil and gas did the US get from these interventions in these countries?
And how much was used by planes, helicopters, tanks, armored trucks?

Doug
Reply to  Tom.1
February 26, 2022 6:55 am

It never was about controlling climate…It has always been about controlling people. You didn’t really think so many people could be so stupid to think they could make significant climate changes ,did you?

Tom.1
Reply to  Doug
February 26, 2022 7:33 am

Exercising control over others via government is the handmaiden of what passes for modern liberalism. This is rooted mostly in a desire to do good, to which CS Lewis had the answer:

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be “cured” against one’s will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”

Pat Frank
Reply to  Doug
February 26, 2022 7:33 am

There are many people that stupid, Doug, and lots of them are highly intelligent academics.

meiggs
Reply to  Pat Frank
February 26, 2022 7:48 am

to comprehend the infinite one need only contemplate human stupidity

Tom.1
Reply to  Pat Frank
February 26, 2022 7:59 am

Someone I used to know had an expression: “People don’t think, they just think they think.” So it is for many climate worriers. They accept so much of what the MSM and other say without asking any hard questions.

Matt Kiro
Reply to  Doug
February 26, 2022 7:33 am

Everyday the ignorance of the population is almost overwhelming. For the best three days, all ive heard about if the Ukrainian border, on every news channel. They have never spent 2% of that time on the US border in the past twenty years.

meiggs
Reply to  Matt Kiro
February 26, 2022 7:49 am

the msm work in obvious ways

mcswell
Reply to  Matt Kiro
February 26, 2022 3:21 pm

I guess that’s because Mexico is not sending armed troops, armored vehicles, and military aircraft over our border with them, nor are they shelling us, bombing us, or launching ballistic and cruise missiles at us.

Editor
Reply to  Doug
February 26, 2022 9:26 am

Yes. People can be ‘nudged’ to believe almost anything

Tonyb

Gunga Din
Reply to  tonyb
February 26, 2022 12:52 pm

Control the sources of information and you control the people’s decisions.
Today’s internet, social media, Wikipedia, etc. is the equivalent of digital Book Burning.
(People need sound information to make sound decisions.)

Last edited 7 months ago by Gunga Din
Sal Minella
Reply to  tonyb
February 26, 2022 4:11 pm

I’d like to reprise my old poem to include Covid and now, the threats of foreign wars. Suggestions?

What Trembling Fools They Are
A silent spring, I’ve never heard,
it did not kill my favorite bird.
The population bomb’s a dud,
it’s just not so, my favorites bud.
Where’s that swarm of killer bees,
that forest with depleted trees,
That ice age that didn’t freeze,
the Ozone Hole or PCBs.
Skies were blue – they still are,
peak oil – I use it in my car.
Polar icecaps just won’t melt,
that’s a lie that Al Gore dealt.
Y2K was a fake,
COBOL pros got that take.
My skivvies in disarray,
I’ve been fingered by mo-TSA.
As a child beneath my desk,
escaping that Atomic death,
A white-hot flash that never came,
I’m pining for that cleansing flame,
for fear of something real,
not a panic-driven zeal.
Oh, what trembling fools they are,
they’ve sold my freedoms to the safety czar.

Anon
Reply to  Tom.1
February 26, 2022 7:20 am

This always struck me as the bizarrest comment:

Angela Merkel and the Insult of Trump’s Paris Climate-Accord Withdrawal

Merkel, at her press conference, said, “This Paris climate accord is not just some accord or the other. It is a central accord in defining the contours of globalization.” She added, “I believe that the issue of Paris is so important that one simply can’t compromise on it.” 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/angela-merkel-and-the-insult-of-trumps-paris-climate-accord-withdrawal

The world is going to end in 12 years, yet Merkel’s #1 priority is the “contours of globalization”? They ought to put that on a t-shirt. That concern also might be what behind Kerry’s recent and equally as bizarre comment?

bonbon
Reply to  Anon
February 26, 2022 8:29 am

She was actually right – the Unipolar world of Kerry et al does depend on the Climate-Rules-Based-Order.
That 30 year Unipolar epoch ended this Feb 2022. Some have not yet gotten the memo. Putin and Xi certainly have.
So, yes, the Unipolar world did actually end on time.
Welcome to the Multipolar World, born with Twins Donetsk and Lugansk.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Tom.1
February 26, 2022 10:14 am

Tom point 1:

Hopefully, you also intended “not to suggest” that “climate change” (as the term is now commonly used and defined by those who promote “controlling” it) is an observed phenomenon.

So far, the data shows that we are (per Richard Lindzen) “well within the bounds of natural variation.”

bonbon
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 26, 2022 11:24 am

“well within the bounds of natural change.”
There, fixed it for ya.

Janice Moore
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 11:59 am

Bonbon. That is a QUOTE by Richard Lindzen who, almost certainly, knows more about climate than you do. 🤨

bonbon
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 26, 2022 12:17 pm

I know, and fixed it. Variational calculus is all about Change, right?

Janice Moore
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 1:40 pm

In your puffed up arrogance you “fixed” the words which Richard Lindzen chose to use.

bonbon
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 26, 2022 3:54 pm

Calculus of Variations predates climatologists. Lindzen knows that.

Janice Moore
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 4:30 pm

And yet, still, Lindzen’s statement did not need “fixing.”

Tom.1
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 26, 2022 12:28 pm

Janice- Here’s thought. Just make up a point you want to argue, and then post it independently. Nothing I said could possibly be construed as endorsing any theories about climate change.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Tom.1
February 26, 2022 1:42 pm

Here’s a reply: try answering the questions posed by others.

observa
Reply to  Tom.1
February 26, 2022 4:11 pm

Difficult? Impossible? In computer models and AI they trust-
How AI could help bring a sustainable reckoning to hydropower (msn.com)
When you lack intelligence just feed in the parameters and out pops the answers silly. Dontcha know these people have been to university and they have lots of computers there to work it all out.

Tom.1
February 26, 2022 6:12 am

It should have been obvious from the start that if you wanted to transition away from fossil fuels (regardless of cost) the first thing you would do is replace all fixed power generation with nuclear. That would probably still take many decades.

Drake
Reply to  Tom.1
February 26, 2022 8:19 am

If there were not endless lawfare against nuclear power, or if governments (US primarily) passed looser pays requirements, where envirowaco groups had to be able to pay the cost of ALL the expenses of their delaying tactics when they loose, their lawyers as also libel for the costs, then the US could build all the nuclear generation needed in less than 10 years.

Build steel foundries to build reactor cores and valves, piping etc. The US doesn’t even have, at this time, the capability to manufacture its reactor vessels for US Navy submarines and aircraft carriers, they are made in Canada. That would take at most 2 years. Beginning site development, cooling unit construction and generators plants, etc. at the same time.

Begin mass producing SMR cores and all pertinent piping etc. as soon as the first steel foundries are functional.

Site the first reactors at old coal sites where train access, electrical transmission infrastructure and water are already available.

Rinse and repeat for 8 more years.

BTW, all of these reactors should be designed for highly enriched uranium so that they would only need to be refueled at 10 year intervals, such refueling to be done by a US military guarded crew with transport of nuclear materials and reprocessing done at facilities under military protection/isolation.

To you naysayers, just look at the total output of the US during WWII.

https://civilianmilitaryintelligencegroup.com/8695/us-industrial-might-in-world-war-ii-by-the-numbers

Drake
Reply to  Drake
February 26, 2022 8:33 am

BTW: That production was in 5 years, but there was no welfare state policies so there was a workforce motivated to go to work.

US workforce participation rate, I wonder why those of us who PAY taxes pay so much!

https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-labor-force-participation-rate.htm

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  Tom.1
February 26, 2022 8:21 am
Last edited 7 months ago by Gordon A. Dressler
Quelgeek
Reply to  Tom.1
February 26, 2022 9:08 am

We can’t replace “all fixed power generation” with nuclear. Nuclear doesn’t turn on a dime—as the chumps at Chernobyl demostrated to their cost. We need nuclear to supply up to but not much above minimum demand, say about 60% of peak. The remainder has to come from generating capacity that we can spin up, and down, on-demand. Right now combined cycle gas turbines look good.

One can exploit renewables to defer some gas consumption when the renewables are in “the mood”, but at the cost of constant tinkering and fiddling to manage distribution as the sun and wind fade in and out.

I do not believe we will transition away from fossil fuels without acute pain, nuclear or not, renewables or not. I fear the pain is imminent anyway. Why we would want to hasten it with Net Zero and similar foolishness I do not know.

Tom.1
Reply to  Quelgeek
February 26, 2022 9:56 am

France has made a pretty good go of it, but admittedly not “all”. Can we go with most, or how about just the coal ones?

Derg
Reply to  Quelgeek
February 26, 2022 10:36 am

You and word salad Bob will never embrace nuclear. Wind and solar is your stupid.

Quelgeek
Reply to  Derg
February 26, 2022 10:59 am

Are you addressing me? I hope not. Wind and solar are worse than stupid IMO.

Last edited 7 months ago by Quelgeek
bonbon
Reply to  Quelgeek
February 26, 2022 12:23 pm

Very well put.
The insane Rules-Based-Order to NetZero, is just that, the last hurrah of a decadent rotten Unipolar clique in panic.
welcome to the Multipolar World!

February 26, 2022 6:12 am

Recently WUWT had an article about Grid Storage. The comments had an examole of using a falling weight to power a 2kw heater for 24hrs.

What wasnt mentioned was the cost to do this with a lipo battery. I checked the web and found that a Tesla powerwall installed was about $1k per 1kwh. Thus a 2kw heater for 24 hrs is about $50k.

$50,000 in batteries to run a heater for a day. Makes 500 tons of water falling 30 meters look cheap.

Scissor
Reply to  ferdberple
February 26, 2022 6:43 am

And those batteries get weak and fail and eventually need to be replaced.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Scissor
February 26, 2022 7:00 am

if they don’t first start a fire

Dave Fair
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
February 26, 2022 10:07 am

That’s the bigger issue to consumers; safety. People tend to freak when they learn their neighbors were killed by their EV. “If it bleeds, it leads” and NIMBY are still powerful forces that run counter to Leftists’ green nirvana.

bonbon
Reply to  Scissor
February 26, 2022 7:00 am

Replaced with new technology – fusion 🙂

Sal Minella
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 7:24 am

Absolutely! Pay me now and your Mr Fusion is on the way. (should arrive in about 30 years.)

Matt Kiro
Reply to  Sal Minella
February 26, 2022 7:35 am

Can’t we just send Doc Brown into the
Future and he will come back with Mr Fusion?

bonbon
Reply to  Matt Kiro
February 26, 2022 7:43 am

A few $billionaires know very well the fusion $trillionaires are the future. Some of these characters are not nice people, so what.

bonbon
Reply to  Sal Minella
February 26, 2022 7:41 am

Keep saying that until the batteries run out. Then see what happens.

Sal Minella
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 9:55 am

I’ve been saying that since ca 1970 and, yes. the batteries are running out.

Rich Davis
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 11:11 am

You really are that clueless bonbon? The promise of fusion is something like the promise of virgins in paradise for the jihadists.

bonbon
Reply to  Rich Davis
February 26, 2022 11:25 am

Tell that to Peter Thiel of Helion. I keep out of shrapnel range.

Rich Davis
Reply to  Sal Minella
February 26, 2022 11:06 am

No your browser is not broken just because it keeps coming back with estimated delivery in 30 years when you refresh the page on the tracking info! It is actually a static page. 70,000 years from now, it will still say arriving in just 30 years.

bonbon
Reply to  Rich Davis
February 26, 2022 11:26 am

It’s your buck. Too bad.

Last edited 7 months ago by bonbon
Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Rich Davis
February 26, 2022 11:55 am

While the problems of controlled fusion turned out to be more intractable than thought during the time of Project Sherwood, there have been some significant break throughs recently. I think it is a serious mistake to project the future based on past performance. People have been thinking about how to fly since before the time of De Vinci (Actually, since at least the Greeks). After the success of the Wright brothers, aviation has advanced rapidly. If I were you, I wouldn’t bet a lot of money on your forecast if you are simply extrapolating. If you know something about electrohydrodynamic plasma systems that isn’t widely known, and are basing your opinion on that, then I might pay more attention to your currently fact-free prognostication.

bonbon
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
February 26, 2022 12:24 pm

Well put!

Rich Davis
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
February 26, 2022 4:48 pm

I’m not saying that it will never be technically possible to control fusion, (although I would not even rule that out). I’m saying it will never be cost effective at least in the next millennium which is the whole point of “commercialization”.

Cost effective is a relative concept. To be economically feasible you have to do better than break even on cost vs revenue. To get any revenue, you have to do better than break even at the market price of electricity offered by the lowest cost provider in the market. This means that fusion must be able to break even selling power at the price it can be produced by nuclear fission. And that’s accepting the nonsense that we can’t safely burn coal or natural gas.

So even if you can build a working fusion reactor, how much will it cost, how long will it last, and how many kWh will you sell before you have to rebuild?

Gary Pearse
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
February 26, 2022 5:59 pm

Clyde, I think a fusion breakthrough might come in a different way. You would already have a plasma full of electrons waiting for a conductor to draw it away in a thin stream to a conductor interface of some kind as you are adding fuel at the other end. Maybe boiling water as an end game is holding up progress.

I’m likely to be shown why it’s a goofy idea (!) but to have James Watt’s steam engine as its end game seems so antediluvian.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Gary Pearse
February 27, 2022 8:06 am

Magnetohydrodynamics has been proposed as an approach to produce electricity directly from the plasma. I haven’t been keeping up lately so I don’t know where that research stands.

However, it is a moot point if they don’t solve the problem of long containment times. I think the question of whether to boil water or use the magnetic field produced by the electron stream can wait until they solve the problem of plasma stability.

I have read that the B2 bomber is inherently so unstable that a human can’t fly it without a computer backup to make fast corrections. I have a hunch that it will take something like that to keep the plasma stable.

Reply to  Sal Minella
February 27, 2022 4:50 pm

That should have been called “Mr. Mass Conversion,” because fusion has nothing to do with banana peels and tin cans.

Joe Crawford
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 11:57 am

It a technology don’t make it from discovery to market in about 10 years or less it ain’t gonna :<)

philo
Reply to  Joe Crawford
February 26, 2022 3:21 pm

At this point Technology is still looking for that Golden Nail for nuclear fusion.

mcswell
Reply to  Scissor
February 26, 2022 3:24 pm

Eventually, at which point the cost of replacement batteries will doubtless be lower.

John Bell
Reply to  ferdberple
February 26, 2022 7:30 am

It seems that one would need lead/acid batteries as big as houses and rows of them, entire parks of them. We use them in cars.

bonbon
Reply to  John Bell
February 26, 2022 7:53 am

I always wonder why the usual car starter batteries are not by now Lithium. Anyone know why? I have a Lithium starter pack, quite small, good for 3 starts on full charge. Loads over a USB cable.

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 8:27 am

1) Cost
2) Cost
3) Cost
4) Reliability
5) Reliability
6) Demonstrated ability to function properly for 3-5 years without ever catching fire due to shortening of internal cells

Next question.

Tom.1
Reply to  Gordon A. Dressler
February 26, 2022 10:02 am

So how many cars are on the road now with lithium batteries? Seems like quite a few, wouldn’t you agree? They are safe and reliable. However, they are not cost competitive with LA.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Tom.1
February 26, 2022 10:25 am

Unless you provide evidence of:

  1. Reliable ability to extinguish reasonably quickly a lithium ion battery fire; and
  2. Reliable performance over long ranges by EV’s in cold weather;

no one will be convinced by your bald assertion, other than those whose pocketbook (EV marketers) and/or ego (this is my Holy Car and I am saving the planet and….. I’m not?….. Well, I can’t admit that!! That would mean I was WRONG 😱 )

Last edited 7 months ago by Janice Moore
Tom.1
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 26, 2022 11:16 am

Globally, electric vehicle sales are over 2 million units per year. I don’t know how many millions are already on the road, but needless to say, quite a few. If they are so unsafe and unreliable, how is this even possible? I think you are the one who needs to supply data to show that they are not safe or reliable.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Tom.1
February 26, 2022 12:02 pm

Well. Is that you CANNOT answer the question, or that you WILL not answer?

Thank you, in the meantime, for doing your part to show how unsupported by data and facts the purchase of an EV is.

Keep up the good work!

Tom.1
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 26, 2022 12:39 pm

It should be blinking obvious that if sales worldwide of EV’s are over 2 million per year, Gordon’s concerns about safety and reliability do otherwise need to be addressed. The market is answering the questions. The market could always change its mind, but right now, that’s the answer.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Tom.1
February 26, 2022 1:44 pm

You display an amazing ignorance of how the price of an EV is determined. Here’s a clue: if their manufacturers had to pay their own costs of production and if (in many cases) buyers had to pay the full purchase price, far fewer would be sold.

Your not answering a second time is strong evidence that the case is not that you will not, but that you CANnot answer.

Laughing at you, now.

Last edited 7 months ago by Janice Moore
Tom.1
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 26, 2022 5:53 pm

The question was on safety and reliability not economics. I don’t own an EV, so can’t personally speak to the issue from that perspective, but millions of other people have spoken and the trends in EV production and sales are up, so we’ll see where that goes. For now, a very significant number of people see them as safe and reliable, and I have no doubt they are.

Gunga Din
Reply to  Tom.1
February 26, 2022 1:06 pm

Ask John Kerry.
He has his priorities straight. Right?
(Now where’s I put that sarc tag …)

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  Tom.1
February 26, 2022 12:56 pm

“However, they are not cost competitive with LA” . . . yes, see my items 1-3.

“They are safe and reliable” . . . well, except when they catch fire; see my items 4-6, as has been documented in many, many recent news articles.

No, I don’t agree with your second sentence. Although EV sales currently make up about 2.5% of the total annual automotive market (ref: a), the number of “cars on the road” currently with lithium batteries (i.e., the total number of EVs) is only about 1% of the total number of operational cars (ref: b). I do not consider that “quite a few”, relatively.

a) https://electrek.co/2021/08/24/current-ev-registrations-in-the-us-how-does-your-state-stack-up/

b) https://www.treehugger.com/how-many-electric-cars-are-on-the-road-in-the-us-5192754

Gary Pearse
Reply to  Gordon A. Dressler
February 26, 2022 6:37 pm

“However, they are not cost competitive with LA”.

Li-ion’s raison d’être is all about light weight. LA batteries’ competitiveness for cars is compromised by the weight factor. You don’t want such a large amount of power to be drawn just to transport the battery.

However, if you are looking for stationary power storage for the grid, using Li is the stupidest idea ever. I was disappointed in Elon Musk’s linear thinking here. Surely, pumped storage, vanadium multivalency liquid batteries, and yes, LA batteries would make more sense. Battery lead is over 90% recycled.

Having had too many fires in large grid Li batteries (2 out of 2 for South Australia alone) and bus batteries, it may suggest scaling up increases danger. Now, Li car batteries catching fire is only a small percentage, but I wouldn’t want to park such a vehicle in a garage attached to my house! Especially when the hazard is elevated during charging.

Having rushed this tech, maybe they will make them more safe some day. A built in fire control tech is probably possible.

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Gordon A. Dressler
February 27, 2022 6:36 am

Worldwide there are over 1.4 billion ICEVs compared to 16m EVs as recently estimated by the IEA.

Gunga Din
Reply to  Tom.1
February 26, 2022 1:03 pm

And they tend to burst into flame.
(Reminds of the introduction of new computer operating systems. NEVER “upgrade” when first released. Let them get the bugs out first.)

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Tom.1
February 27, 2022 6:21 am

The IEA estimate there are about 16m EVs on the road worldwide consuming roughly 30TWh of electricity pa which is equivalent to all the electricity generated in Ireland.

Drake
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 8:50 am

Price and functionality.

I have been threatening myself with buying lithium batteries for my 4 wheelers but every time I replace a battery, lead acid last about 5 years where I have them, I choke on the cost X 3 for lead acid.

I also have a 5th wheel and the batteries are coming due soon, but the cost is X 3 at least although they are much lighter and do not require ventilation, no H2 produced. I may make the switch but US made batteries are X 4 or more and China made are risky. BTW, many “US made” batteries are only “assembled” in the US, from China made parts, you really have to go deep to find the truth.

Earlier lifepo batteries stated 1000 to 2000 charge cycles, newer ones claim 5000. Who really knows since all the stuff is made in China. IF the 5000 cycles was true, lithium would be definitely cheaper over the long haul. Less total ah required since you can discharge a lithium to 95% without damage where lead acid is 50%.

With lithium starter batteries really cold (- 6 here this morning) requires you to warm up the battery before trying to use it to start a vehicle. Turn on the headlights to get current flowing for a little while, then start the vehicle.

bonbon
Reply to  Drake
February 26, 2022 9:18 am

Have you a product ref?
If Tesla,VW et. el. can do 1-ton EV batteries, surely they can do small starters?

Drake
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 4:17 pm

Small starter batteries are available. I have researched them for the 4 wheelers (motorcycle type) and they are just expensive.

I have researched them for RV deep cycle, but they are expensive.

I have not researched them for cars. The weight issue is inconsequential except when replacing. I will research them , I have a diesel truck with 2 batteries, and it is coming up on 4 years old. With starter batteries CCC, (cold cranking amps) is important, and it was -6 f this morning at my cabin so that part is important to me. As mentioned you would need to warm up the battery to get sufficient current flow to start a large motor.

Who knows, if they become common, the block heater power supply may provide a battery heater. I have a thermostat controlled heater for my back up generator starter battery as well as a “throat” heater (installed between the carburetor and the intake manifold) since it is propane fueled so COLD fuel in cold weather. I have never had a failed start, even in the dead of winter.

Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 9:01 am

My sister asked me this question a few months ago when I was showing her my solar power setup and my use of power packs to bring in the stored energy into my home for further processing.
Cars do not need deep cycle batteries as they always have a ready supply of stored energy in the gas tank.
Also, I don’t think there is enough lithium in the world to supply all the cars starter / running batteries.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  garymount
February 26, 2022 11:59 am

It probably isn’t so much the availability of lithium as it is cobalt.

Gunga Din
Reply to  garymount
February 26, 2022 1:14 pm

For decades some anti-fossil fuel advocates have talked about “peak oil” that never happened.
Why aren’t concerned about “peak lithium” or “peak cadmium” or any other of the rare earth elements to make the batteries or the magnets for wind (or solar panels?) work? How are lithium and cadmium “renewable”?

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Gunga Din
February 27, 2022 8:21 am

Peak Oil for conventional oil found in structural traps did happen. Drillers found a different way to exploit the same commodity from a different source. There was a technology revolution that changed the game and some definitions. Perhaps a good analogy would be the
Agricultural Revolution. People could see that based on the available fertile land and the productivity of the land, that it would be difficult to feed the world’s growing population. Mechanization and massive fertilization with cheap synthetic fertilizers increased productivity several fold, averting a Peak Food catastrophe. Predictions of peak conditions shouldn’t be viewed as impassible barriers, but as warnings that action is needed to prevent catastrophes through new technology.

I suppose it is possible that another technological revolution could make metals economically available from low-grade sources. However, other than extremely cheap energy, I don’t know what that would be.

Dave Andrews
Reply to  garymount
February 27, 2022 6:39 am

The price of lithium carbonate for use in EV batteries increased by 150% in 2021 according to the IEA.

fretslider
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 9:18 am

Because they don’t need to be anything other than what they are.

I don’t know of any IC engine that connects to a battery with a usb. Besides, if lithium were a better alternative in a voltage stabilisation system, manufacturers would be using them

bonbon
Reply to  fretslider
February 26, 2022 11:28 am

The charge pack loads of a USB or 12V. Then can deliver enough to start any diesel many times over – see the specs…

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  fretslider
February 28, 2022 3:57 pm

Exactly! . . . it’s IMPOSSIBLE to deliver 200 cold-cranking amps (or more) at 12 vdc over a USB connection. One may charge USB-input “car starting packs” over USB, but each and ever one of these will have more massive cables to connect the pack’s output to the (otherwise dead) terminals of the car’s lead-acid 12 vdc battery.

Randle Dewees
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 9:21 am

For several years I have used Shorai Li batteries in my dual-sport motorcycles. Weight about one pound vs 5 pounds PB/acid. That weight savings makes a difference on a dirt bike and is worth the extra cost (3X – 5X) to me. However, for general purpose street bikes it may not be a better choice. Cold weather starts are problematic (I don’t ride when it’s cold but there are nuts that do), requiring the few minutes of discharge running the lights to warm up the battery enough to start the engine. And life and reliability. While I never had a problem with Li batteries I think enough do to give you pause.

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  Randle Dewees
February 28, 2022 4:01 pm

The Web is full of videos of Li-ion battery packs used in “hover boards” and certain portable laptop computers exploding in flames.

Also, quite of few videos of Li-ion battery packs used in EV’s doing the same.

fretslider
Reply to  ferdberple
February 26, 2022 9:12 am

The trouble with batteries in general is they tend to run out just when you don’t want them to.

And it’s annoying.

Dave Fair
Reply to  fretslider
February 26, 2022 10:11 am

And it can be life-threatening.

bonbon
Reply to  fretslider
February 26, 2022 11:38 am

Your diesel needs to start, right? It is bad when they sediment.

philo
Reply to  ferdberple
February 26, 2022 3:18 pm

When all you’ve got is a hammer(Tesla Battery) then all you can see is a nail.

bonbon
February 26, 2022 6:14 am

The zombie fascination for “Climate Change” has blinded (even those who can see CO2) to the real world : It has changed utterly :
The world just turned. Ukraine and the Putin–Xi statement.
https://thescrum.substack.com/p/the-world-just-turned?utm_source=url

By Patrick Lawrence, Longtime correspondent abroad, author and essayist, numerous books and awards. Foreign affairs commentator for 25 years. First to expose the Russiagate fraud.

As Heraclites said the only constant in life is change…

bonbon
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 6:17 am

Heraclitus

heraclitus.jpg
Scissor
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 6:45 am

I would never name a child Heraclitus.

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Scissor
February 26, 2022 7:01 am

good one!

bonbon
Reply to  Scissor
February 26, 2022 7:34 am

No need – kids are change, by nature.

Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 6:28 am

1939. Nazis and Soviets signed a similar pact. 1 week later Nazis invade Poland and WWII begins. Weak leadership in the west chamberlain/Biden. Pact signatories have aims beyond their borders.

bonbon
Reply to  ferdberple
February 26, 2022 6:38 am

Putin recently criticized Stalin for not preparing defense, and 28 million Russians died. He said he has no right to make such a mistake.

The first NATO, here, followed by 2 world wars, now NATOstan – notice a pattern?

Meanwhile on the East – China has noticed the pattern : British Opium Wars, and now the Quad.

french-brits-carving-world-cartoon.jpg
Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 7:03 am

Stalin did worse than not prepare- he wiped out much of his army generals.

Sara
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
February 26, 2022 7:11 am

Not just generals: he ordered the executions of more than 36,000++ Red Army officers and made some of them dig their own graves. Anyone he saw as a threat literally vanished from the world, including people shown with him in photographs.

bonbon
Reply to  Sara
February 26, 2022 7:26 am

He got 1 thing right :

yalta.jpg
meiggs
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 8:17 am

The new deal was a precursor to the green new deal

bonbon
Reply to  meiggs
February 26, 2022 11:30 am

The GND is to head off a new global Deal. Trump was part of that. That Deal is on the way – you ain’t seen nothin’ yet!

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Sara
February 26, 2022 12:04 pm

I’ve never understood someone digging their own grave. Better to die taking some of the guards with you than just allowing it to happen.

bonbon
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
February 26, 2022 3:34 pm

Bettelheim got it right.

MarkW
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 7:24 am

You prepare a defense by invading your neighbors?

bonbon
Reply to  MarkW
February 26, 2022 7:31 am

Nuke-Nazi’s on any border are better denazified. Wait for a surprise nuke – you must be joking!

Rich Davis
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 7:50 pm

meds bonbon. You forgot again

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  MarkW
February 27, 2022 8:28 am

There is that old saying from sports that “the best defense is a good offense.”

However, Putin is in violation of International Law (He broke the rules!) Therefore, he should be penalized, but not so severely that he feels he has nothing to lose by escalating the conflict.

Felix
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 8:27 am

Putin lied about Ukraine being an invention of the West to tear up Russia, and lied about Ukraine’s borders.

  • 1945: Stalin insisted that the Ukraine and Belorussian SSRs be admitted to the UN as founding independent states.
  • 1954: Khrushchev transferred Crimea to the Ukraine SSR from the Russian SSR.
  • 1994: Putin promised to recognize the final USSR borders in return for Ukraine’s nuclear weapons.
Derg
Reply to  Felix
February 26, 2022 10:42 am

And the Obama administration and CIA were doing something in Ukraine…what was it 🤔

bonbon
Reply to  Felix
February 26, 2022 11:32 am

2014 – a nazi putsch by Obama’s boys, Biden the cheerleader, costing $billion as Nuland said. Major blowback – in you face, what?

mcswell
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 3:28 pm

Oh, I guess that’s why Zelenskyy (Ukraine’s President) is Jewish, right?

otropogo
Reply to  Felix
February 26, 2022 10:35 pm

What right did Khruschev have to “transfer” Crimea to the Ukraine?

What historic claim does Ukraine have to the Crimea?

The only nation which might have a more legitimate claim to this peninsula than Russia are the Tartars whom Stalin exiled to Tatarstan in Western Siberia. However, very few of them returned. Khrushchev was not so benevolent toward them.

That Putin promised to “recognize” Ukraine’s ownership of Crimea has no bearing. He had no more right to bargain away a predominantly Russian-populated region that had been part of Russia for 170 years than Khrushchev had to gift it.

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 8:35 am

Speaking of (current) China, now might be an opportune time for China to send in some of its own “peacekeepers” to those territories whose ownership was previously disputed between China and Russia.

Just saying . . .

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Gordon A. Dressler
February 26, 2022 10:48 am

No doubt, the Chicoms are noting the troubles the Russian military is having in Ukraine.

bonbon
Reply to  Gordon A. Dressler
February 26, 2022 11:33 am

Ever hear of asymmetry? Wake up!

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 1:02 pm

China has the H-bomb, just as Russia has the H-bomb.

That seems pretty symmetric to me.

Or do you instead want to talk about the numerical asymmetry between the number of Chinese military troops and the number of Russian military troops?

I’m fully awake . . . wha’s your problem?

bonbon
Reply to  Gordon A. Dressler
February 26, 2022 3:36 pm

You are about to find out.

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  bonbon
February 27, 2022 6:22 pm

bonbon,

“find out” . . . perhaps you are referring to how the asymmetric warfare between US forces and Taliban forces in Afghanistan created the need for US forces to withdraw from the conflict, as in become the net LOSER.

Russia, likewise, LOST the battle in the asymmetric, 11-year Soviet–Afghan War (1979–1989).

But thanks for the laugh!

Anon
Reply to  ferdberple
February 26, 2022 8:13 am

Isn’t that exactly the way Putin is thinking about NATO? It isn’t hard to imagine that someone is whispering in his ear: “Look, the Cold War ended and NATO expanded from 12 to 30 countries… and pact signatories have aims beyond their borders.” And despite what we make think of ourselves, as enlightened peace loving peoples , the Russians don’t see Western Europe that way:

1] Russo-Swedish War, 1790

2] Napoleon, 1812

3] Crimean War, 1863 (UK, France & Ottoman Empire)

4] World War I, 1914 (in which the Ukraine, and Baltic Republics were ceded to Germany)

5] Polish-Soviet War, 1920

6] World War II, 1945

So, this most recent conflict is overdue, if you stick to the timeline.

*Not to forget to mention the East, with defeats at Port Arthur & The Tsushima Straight in 1905.

Last edited 7 months ago by Anon
michael hart
Reply to  Anon
February 26, 2022 9:53 am

Yes, Russia has good historical reasons to be suspicious. They were given verbal assurances that NATO would not expand to their border. Promises not kept.

USA has the Monroe Doctrine. Russia also has concerns which are validated by history.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  ferdberple
February 26, 2022 8:41 am

Actually, the non-aggression pact divided Poland right down the middle; the Wehrmacht invaded Poland, but the Soviets also took their half at pretty much the same time. This also played out later with the Soviet attempt to take over Finland in the disastrous Winter War which exposed the weaknesses in the Red Army. The Chamberlain drama took place earlier in the year.

Gunga Din
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
February 26, 2022 1:39 pm

That’s why Finland allied itself with Germany. Russia had attacked Finland then Germany later attacked Russia.

Carlo, Monte
Reply to  Gunga Din
February 27, 2022 12:23 am

Yes, to a certain extent; I don’t think Finland ever became a full Axis partner. Hitler tried to pressure them into joining the siege of Leningrad but Finland refused to fight outside of their own country.

bonbon
Reply to  Carlo, Monte
February 26, 2022 3:38 pm

just when we thought Finlandization could work for a Ukraine Federation, Finland is doing a NATOstan about turn. Talk about the farce of tragedy!

Gunga Din
Reply to  ferdberple
February 26, 2022 1:27 pm

And don’t forget that part of that non-aggression pact was to divide Poland between them.
Shortly after Germany invade Poland from the west, England and France declared war on Germany.
Not long after, Russia invaded from the east. No one declared war on Russia.
Russia didn’t become a (partial) ally until Germany invaded them.
I say “partial ally” because Russia never declared war on Japan in WW2 until AFTER the US dropped the A-bomb.
(Then they gobbled up some Japanese territory in the surrender.)

Devils Tower
February 26, 2022 6:42 am

First load of hydrogen delivered to Japan.

https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/first-international-shipment-of-liquid-hydrogen-arrives-in-japan

From Australia made from low grade lignite. What did they due with all the carbon, bought carbon offsets. Who did they buy them from, guessing Russia. What a joke this green economy has become.

A fire on this ship would make the felicity ace look like a bonfire.

bonbon
Reply to  Devils Tower
February 26, 2022 6:51 am

Here is the first delivery of H2 to the US :

bonbon
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 6:52 am

(Although He2 was planned originally).

Hindenburg_disaster.jpg
Tom.1
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 7:37 am

To suggest the Hindenburg disaster says anything about our ability in the present day to utilize hydrogen as fuel is to suggest that we have made no technological advances over the last 80 years.

bonbon
Reply to  Tom.1
February 26, 2022 7:45 am

We have Hydrogen fusion – various programs. No one said it is easy. But hey, fission was not either.

Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 8:16 am

Why not just ‘split’* the Hydrogen atom?

* Caveat: TBAL

bonbon
Reply to  _Jim
February 26, 2022 11:02 am

CERN does that quarky stuff all the time.
Problem is, they got the name from Joyce’s Finegans Wake, and they bred like rabbits. None netted so far, the varmints!.

Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 2:16 pm

re: “CERN does that quarky stuff”

Oh – the phrenologists at CERN; smashing big ‘particles’ to bits, picking up the little pieces (watching their ballistic paths, etc) on a variety of sensors and attempting to ascertain (effectively) the ‘brand of watch’ (an exaggeration here obviously) that was sent ‘through the collider’ ….

To quote Sabine Hossenfelder in her book Lost in Math says that the obsession with “beauty” has “led physics astray.”

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/cross-check/how-physics-lost-its-way/

bonbon
Reply to  _Jim
February 26, 2022 3:26 pm

Sabine got it wrong with the Soccer Ball problem – look it up on arxiv.
See Smolin’s reply.

Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 4:08 pm

Schrodinger got the atomic model wrong with the ‘probability’ equations, which is still taught in physics as fact. I think that trumps the soccer ball problem and a lot more …

Quelgeek
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 9:29 am

Memo to self: don’t store hydrogen in a bag painted with thermite…

Quelgeek
Reply to  Quelgeek
February 26, 2022 9:30 am

…nitrated dope and thermite…

Kevin kilty
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 9:48 am

He2?

bonbon
Reply to  Kevin kilty
February 26, 2022 11:08 am

Does exist at cryogenic temps. Maybe the Hindenburg guys then used 2He.

Gunga Din
Reply to  Kevin kilty
February 26, 2022 1:51 pm

Het2Brute?

bonbon
Reply to  Gunga Din
February 26, 2022 3:27 pm

That was 12 daggers, C12.

Gunga Din
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 4:58 pm

97% plus or so of the Earth’s carbon!
An endless carbon-tax base!!

bonbon
Reply to  Devils Tower
February 26, 2022 6:59 am

Much better use for LH2 : NASA did manage not only to store, pump, and ignite LH2 on a regular basis. Artemis has a similar design :

artemis.jpg
Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 8:39 am

Nice photo . . . how many seconds before the “go to throttle up” call on Challenger is that image portraying?

bonbon
Reply to  Gordon A. Dressler
February 26, 2022 11:35 am

They heard Feynman’s analysis. Cold weather is bad….

Joseph Zorzin
Reply to  Devils Tower
February 26, 2022 7:04 am

Russia has millions of square miles of trees in Siberia- it’ll get rich selling carbon offsets to fools. It’ll need the money after its economy collapses.

Derg
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
February 26, 2022 10:44 am

How does an economy with vast resources the world needs collapse?

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Derg
February 26, 2022 12:11 pm

When the world punishes itself by not using those vast resources.

Something that I think the Western World needs to think about is being too vindictive. Think of the consequences of the Treaty of Versailles and how it contributed to a depression in Germany and WWII.

bonbon
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
February 26, 2022 1:03 pm

Today we Versailles exponent 10.
See Marc Carney’s demand for $100 TRILLION at COP26, Bloomberg interview.
This is very possible the trigger for WWII, short and final.
Much better to follow FDR with Glass-Steagall bank separation BEFORE such nonsense.

Tom Abbott
February 26, 2022 7:24 am

It looks like the Climate Change Hoax has become an existential threat to Western Democracy.

Western Leaders captured by the Climate Change Hoax, are unable to take the appropriate actions to secure their country’s futures, when they declare a war on fossil fuels.

Fossil fuels are the solution, but the True Believers in Human-caused Climate Change cannot accept this solution so they lead us in the wrong direction.

bonbon
Reply to  Tom Abbott
February 26, 2022 7:28 am

Bruegel got it right :

blind.jpg
bonbon
Reply to  Tom Abbott
February 26, 2022 7:37 am

What the leaders cannot accept is that the world is now Multipolar – the Unipolar Rules-Based-Order since 1990 is finished.
One of these unilaterally imposed rules is climate, other even more silly rules are also gone bunnies.

Albert H Brand
February 26, 2022 7:43 am

Since this is open thread I will pose a question which I have never received an answer to. If all of the oxygen on earth comes from plants how can a level of 20% oxygen in atmosphere be maintained with 420 parts per million CO2.

bonbon
Reply to  Albert H Brand
February 26, 2022 7:48 am

Plants eat CO2, it is called Photosynthesis. Feed them more CO2, get more O2, easy.
I feed green plants every day with my gasoline and diesel engines. Basically we motorists are all farmers, who wudda thunk?

Last edited 7 months ago by bonbon
whiten
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 4:48 pm

By some weird chronology, O was or happened to be there not only before plants but also before CO2… and also lighter than both!

And most probably the H2O concentration in the oceans is strictly maintained by the CO2 and the plants… nothing magical about it!

cheers

Pablo
Reply to  Albert H Brand
February 26, 2022 8:13 am

“Here we show that the earliest plants, which colonized the land surface from ∼470 Ma onward, were responsible for this mid-Paleozoic oxygenation event, through greatly increasing global organic carbon burial—the net long-term source of O2.”
https://www.pnas.org/content/113/35/9704

Scissor
Reply to  Albert H Brand
February 26, 2022 8:13 am

First, the source of oxygen, as the element, on earth predates plants.

Plants are indeed the source of oxygen in the atmosphere, but that oxygen comes from water, not carbon dioxide.

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  Albert H Brand
February 26, 2022 8:50 am

I’m saddened to hear that you have “never received an answer to” your question. Have you tried independent research using the Web?

In any event, the very short answer to your question is that a concentration of 420 ppm CO2 in Earth’s atmosphere is only 0.2% of a 20 % concentration of O2. In other words, atmospheric CO2 is an insignificant fraction compared to atmospheric O2.

And there is zero scientific evidence that the presence of CO2 in the atmosphere suppresses the presence of oxygen in the atmosphere.

Albert H Brand
Reply to  Gordon A. Dressler
February 26, 2022 9:22 am

I already know that but my question is still being unanswered. We can’t get there from here and therefore the future looks grim. We could always separate oxygen from water using electricity made by nuclear reactors but then we have all this left over hydrogen

Janice Moore
Reply to  Albert H Brand
February 26, 2022 10:46 am

Mr. Brand,

I suggest you reword your question. If you are not getting an answer to it, it is likely because people ARE answering the question you APPEAR to be asking.

To begin with, please clarify, what you mean by “there” in “We can’t get there from here.”

CO2 ppm was MUCH higher in the past and earth’s atmosphere has maintained a 21% level of oxygen, even so.

What exactly are you asking about?

Vlad the Impaler
Reply to  Albert H Brand
February 26, 2022 12:38 pm

Greetings to you and yours, Mr. Brand:

Like others on this thread, I do not believe I understand your question either.

Upon first reading, I felt the question you were asking was, ‘where does our oxygen come from’, meaning, how do land plants make enough for us to breathe?

Then, I re-read your question, and I think you are asking, how does so little carbon dioxide (approximately 420 ppm) provide sufficient photosynthesis for there to be enough (oxygen as a by-product) to stay at the current level.

Upon further reading, I am of the opinion that neither of the two questions is the one you are asking, so, as other have, I think we would prefer to have you try to restate the question. It does not matter to those of us who “haunt” Anthony’s (and Jo’s) websites if your post is lengthy. The vast majority of us read the whole post, and enjoy engaging in discourse.

Praise to Anthony and his unheralded team of moderators, who keep this wonderful website going.

Best Regards to you and yours,

Vlad

bonbon
Reply to  Albert H Brand
February 26, 2022 1:06 pm

Basically we motorists are all farmers, who wudda thunk?
Just to put it dumb enough for you.
Why stay a dummy? Even my tomcat is smarter!

Smart Rock
Reply to  Albert H Brand
February 26, 2022 1:23 pm

Albert: you may have missed the relevant parts of high school biology (I hope you were doing something useful instead, like earning money or chasing girls or smoking dope). So here’s a short version of what you missed.

You seem to be under the impression that atmospheric oxygen is non-renewable and is being depleted. Not so; it is being constantly replenished. The oxygen you breathe in is turned into CO2 by your metabolic activity (and also green plants in the night time). And of course your fossil fuel use also consumes oxygen and adds CO2.

Green plants then use photosynthesis to turn that CO2 into carbohydrates (including cellulose, which they build their stems and leaves etc. with) and oxygen. The amount of oxygen in the atmosphere stays more or less constant. It’s been fairly stable for hundreds of millions of years in the 15-30% range. No cause for panic just yet.

Not to mention that CO2 emitted by volcanoes (and burning fossil fuels) is also photosynthesised to produce more oxygen.

If you want to learn where the oxygen came from in the first place, do an internet search for “great oxygenation event” which started about 2 billion years ago when cyanobacteria (also known as blue-green algae) first evolved. Some witty souls call this the “first great extinction” because oxygen was toxic to the anaerobic life forms that dominated for the previous 2 billion years, when the atmosphere mainly consisted of nitrogen and CO2. Some people are just obsessed with “great extinctions” because they’ve been told that we’re in the middle of causing one. Such hubris!

bonbon
Reply to  Smart Rock
February 26, 2022 1:43 pm

Ask the mining companies – they know where to look as the old anaerobic bacteria died with huge sediment deposits after the O2 firehose (like champagne except not CO2). Add in crater bombardment rims and find great concentration.
So, we use O2, and minerals from pre-O2, a win-win! Life giveth!

mcswell
Reply to  Gordon A. Dressler
February 26, 2022 3:42 pm

I *think* that’s not the question. The question (IIUC) is where did all the oxygen come from, and how is it maintained at its present level, given that we have only a comparatively tiny amount of CO2 presently? In other words, he already understood that the CO2 is a tiny fraction of the O2, and did not suggest that CO2 in any way suppresses the O2 level in the atmosphere. I guess one answer (I think it’s the wrong answer) is that a couple billion years ago, before plants started producing O2, the CO2 level was around 20%.

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  mcswell
February 27, 2022 6:32 pm

mcswell,

Short answer to the question that you posed:
“. . . green bacteria called cyanobacteria. Their ancestors were the first organisms to develop a special evolutionary ability, photosynthesis, that changed the world as we know it . . . ‘Cyanobacteria are the very first organisms that figured out how to make oxygen’ “.

Which is just an extract of the longer answer given at: https://eapsweb.mit.edu/news/2018/how-earth-got-its-oxygen

(Which took all of about 30 seconds to find using a Web search engine.)

Last edited 7 months ago by Gordon A. Dressler
fretslider
February 26, 2022 7:46 am

Bravery in the post-modern era

Trudeau flees Ottawa as Truckers approach the city.

Zelensky refuses to evacuate as street fighting begins in Kyiv

bonbon
Reply to  fretslider
February 26, 2022 7:51 am

BoJo offered government-in-exile to the Kiev junta. Ireland just revoked visa-requirements for all Ukrainians. Since Ukrainian airspace is locked down, scarpering is likely not an option.
Not known if BoJo offered Trudeau such 🙂

Gary Pearse
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 6:49 pm

JoBo offered to lift Jalenski out of the country. That probably would have handed U!kraine over.

Gordon A. Dressler
Reply to  Gary Pearse
February 27, 2022 6:42 pm

Gary Pearse,

The current President of Ukraine is Volodymyr Zelenskyy.

Who is Jalenski? . . . and why is it important that he be lifted out of the Ukraine?

Last edited 7 months ago by Gordon A. Dressler
Paul Johnson
February 26, 2022 8:11 am

Perhaps now Jen Psnarki (aka “Roots”) can explain to the people of Ukraine how computer illusions of a few degrees warming in the 22nd century is the real existential threat.

bonbon
Reply to  Paul Johnson
February 26, 2022 8:19 am

Here is how to ‘splain:
Psaki: Biden Claim That No One Expected Sanctions to Prevent Russian Invasion Was ‘Not Exactly What He Meant’
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/psaki-biden-claim-that-no-one-expected-sanctions-to-prevent-russian-invasion-was-not-exactly-what-he-meant/#slide-1

Ukraine in the EU, NATOstan was not exactly what it means, Climate neither 🙂

February 26, 2022 8:27 am

LOOKING for cross-platform VNC/RDP remote desktop access software – anybody got a recommendation?

I’ll be using legacy Win Xp pro (32 bit), Win 7 pro (64 bit) and the latest Ubuntu release (20.04) on a collection of PCs, mostly Dell Optiplex series with Core2 Duo and higher Intel processors …

Been using MS Remote Desktop between Xp and 7, and UltraVNC as well (which also connects to something as early as WIn ’95) but I’m now adding Linux (via Ubuntu distro) to the mix (b/c I’m not going the Win 11 route).

Would like to have file sharing between the Linux box and the Win boxes, besides the desktop ‘control’ capability … this will all be on a home/office LAN restricted to 192.168.x.x TCP/IP address space. Non-commercial home use is the ‘work’ environment.

Mr.
Reply to  _Jim
February 26, 2022 10:40 am

Walt and Jessie’s meth lab didn’t need that much equipment Jim.

Reply to  Mr.
February 26, 2022 12:16 pm

My idea of process, control and measurement differ from Walt’s, and of course, Jessie has __no need__ for actual metrics of any kind …

bonbon
Reply to  _Jim
February 26, 2022 10:54 am

NX is great – also enterprise capable. Cygwin X is better than Reflection. Citrix Appgate is good.VMware Horizon is good.

bonbon
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 11:17 am

Nice NCD for heavy CAE, CAE, CAX visualization apps is great.

https://tldp.org/HOWTO/NCD-HOWTO-1.html

bonbon
February 26, 2022 8:33 am

I always wonder why the usual diesel car starter batteries are not by now Lithium.

Anyone know why?
I have a Lithium starter pack, quite small, good for 3 starts on full charge. Loads over a USB cable. Lead acid batteries last about 4 to 6 years. Lithium would do also.
I’ll bet the problem is the usual auto charger circuit could not handle Lithium without some retrofit.

Anyone have an idea?

Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 8:44 am

Ion mobility, lack thereof, in cold temperatures … also consider there are literal ‘glow plugs’ that require a certain amount of warmup (voltage applied) before cranking the (high compression, relative to gasoline) engine occurs, so the Amp Hour rating/capability must support this too.

My 1981 5 cylinder turbocharged mech. FI 300TD requires the large battery, costing about 100 bucks US the last time I bought one in 2018.

Last edited 7 months ago by _Jim
Frederick Michael
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 8:50 am

There’s no problem that needs solving. The lead acid batteries do the job at low cost. LI batteries add a fire hazard and for what?

The headlight technology is changing because the LEDs are better in a noticeable way. LI car batteries aren’t worth the bother. If this is going to change, it’ll change in golf carts first and there’s virtually no movement there. The deluxe 48 volt golf cars have LED headlights and turn signals but use lead acid batteries.

bonbon
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 9:14 am

This unit with 99900mAh 600A for about $45 . Scotty Kilmer recommends them.So far not as standard auto starter batteries. Could be some spec is not for that.
Anyway it looks like the same tech as the EV auto on batteries.
I find the lead-acids fail at 4 years max.

starthilfe.jpg
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 9:23 am

Performance must match that of Lead Acid batts over temperature *especially*, and for diesel engines the cranking currents are higher on account of innate higher compression ratios (compression ignition engine as opposed to spark ignition engine) …

bonbon
Reply to  _Jim
February 26, 2022 10:46 am

That little unit has no problem with large RV diesels. 600A does it.

Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 10:54 am

re: “That little unit … ”

I don’t know what your mind is actually thinking about this, so its difficult to make an intelligent comment, especially given Peta of Newark’s post on February 26, 2022 10:10 am.

bonbon
Reply to  _Jim
February 26, 2022 1:37 pm

See the image above. Try one out.

Peta of Newark
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 10:10 am

4 years???? What on Earth are you doing to kill batteries like that?

I’ll answer for you =
1/ Letting them go flat and not recharging immediately – you only get to do that twice with a ‘heavy duty’ LA battery – if you’re lucky.

2/ Cranking the engine for more than 10 seconds at a time – especially in cold weather. You destroy the plates

Lead Acids are rated at their Amp Hour capacity at 20 degrees Celsius
For every 10 degrees below that, subtract 20% off its nameplate capacity

That thing you’re pointing to is not in any way shape or form capable of starting any engine.
What it does is forces some ‘juice’ into the flat battery
Go here – translate the page and understand what it says.

If it contains 99.9 Amp Hours then I’m the King Of England
It’s nothing more than a portable battery pack you’d use to charge your phone and will not be any more than 10 Amp Hours at 3.7 Volts = 3.3 Amp Hours at 12 Volts
(I have A Bridge for sale in case you’re interested)

It especially says, connect and wait at least 2 minutes…
IOW It is a portable high-power battery charger and NOT a portable high power battery

There in is the problem with Lithiums – they simply don’t have the insanely low output impedance of a Lead Acid = especially the so-called ‘Heavy Duty’ lead acid
Even very modest Lead Acids can generate truly immense currents (instantaneously 1,000+ Amps) such as are needed to get a car engine moving.
Lithium Ion aren’t in the same league and LiFePO4 are 2 or 3 leagues below that
At least LifePO4 doesn’t blow up with such a big bang as Li-Ion when you short-circuit it

bonbon
Reply to  Peta of Newark
February 26, 2022 10:50 am

They can start large diesel no problem – see the specs, or Scotty Kilmer on YT.
Lead-acids build up sediment, age fast. Used to be 6yrs, 4 yrs is now typical. I get -20C and +35C sometimes, maybe that’s a problem.
And I have to pay to dispose.
I suspect the charging cycle needs an engine retrofit, or even a new generator.

Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 10:55 am

The chances are high that big misconceptions exist on how this actually works, as well as other conditional factors, given the points raised by poster Peta of Newark.

bonbon
Reply to  _Jim
February 26, 2022 11:19 am

Some comment, I actually use them.

Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 12:10 pm

BB, its __not__ like we, as consumers, and engineers, and ‘testers’ have no experience with these devices –

“Shorting out a fully charged cheap lithium jump starter. (It didn’t end well.)”

bonbon
Reply to  _Jim
February 26, 2022 1:08 pm

I have baby power socket protectors. For people like AOC.

Smart Rock
Reply to  Peta of Newark
February 26, 2022 2:02 pm

Peta says “Lead Acids are rated at their Amp Hour capacity at 20 degrees Celsius, For every 10 degrees below that, subtract 20% off its nameplate capacity

So at minus 40°C, my battery output should be negative 20%. Then how do I manage to start my truck when it’s -40C? Something one should only do in emergencies – normally you have a plug-in engine block heater and a plug-in battery warmer, and if your engine isn’t well tuned and you don’t have winter-grade or synthetic oil, you’re best off to let it run all night. But I’ve had to do it a few times (crossing your fingers and murmuring a prayer seems to help).

Come to Canada and try it, Peta. Just don’t try it with a diesel engine; that would be pushing your luck.

Truckers and heavy equipment operators in the Canadian north tend to leave their diesels running from November to May (except for oil changes) and it’s getting to be a problem because so many new trucks have a device that turns the engine off after 5 minutes of idling (because climate change, of course). They have no choice but to keep their old trucks running year after year after year.

Drake
Reply to  Smart Rock
February 26, 2022 4:30 pm

Not – 20% of the original CCA , Cold Cranking Amps, for each 10 C but 20% of the remaining amps. 100% – 20 = %80 then 80 – 20% of 80 (16) = 64% then etc.

Any yes, that is why it cranks so slowly in COLD weather, but gasoline really wants to burn, and diesel rigs have two batteries.

beng135
Reply to  Peta of Newark
February 28, 2022 8:39 am

US lead-acid car batteries are mostly made in Mexico and quality control is predictably dismal.

Last edited 7 months ago by beng135
Janice Moore
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 10:58 am

Re: “I find the lead-acids fail at 4 years max.”

BB — Only someone TRYING TO SELL Lithium batteries would say such an obvious falsehood.

Stick to lies that people cannot easily refute simply from their own experience.

YOU find…. but, WE find that lead-acids last FAR longer. So far, the one in my Chevrolet Camaro has lasted 8 years. And it has had to sit in sub-freezing temperatures, not running, sometimes for days at a time, several times. The battery in my dad’s 1969 Chevy pick-up lasted at least 20 (likely longer, but, I’m giving a “high-confidence” est. here) years.

And the cost to replace a lead-acid battery? Ha! That factor makes all your other puffery about Li batteries a JOKE.

bonbon
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 26, 2022 11:22 am

Some comment, I actually use them.
Try replacing, ask you garage. They are down to 4 years now.
We have to pay to recycle – coming soon to a dump near you.

Ask Scotty Kilmer – no better expert around.

Reply to  Janice Moore
February 26, 2022 11:39 am

I get 3 years out of the batteries (dual) on plow truck.

course they are running a plow which can easily get cycled on some manner every 15 seconds.

AGM expensive but thoughout course of a snow storm they work better, plow speed the same and blower motor fan don’t slow when I lift blade.

not sure year of your camaro but the 1969 truck not good example. no draw when shut off. no keep alive circuits involved.

Last edited 7 months ago by dmacleo
Janice Moore
Reply to  dmacleo
February 26, 2022 12:10 pm

My Camaro is a 2014.

Q: In your coming out in strong support of BB, you thereby supported his or her promotion of Li batteries-for-all. Was that your goal?

bonbon
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 26, 2022 1:13 pm

No rabbit-ears from a hat – here just real problems.
Lead-acid begins to look antediluvian. We need good starters, and as usual good diesel.

Reply to  Janice Moore
February 26, 2022 1:55 pm

nope.

I have no desire to use LI batteries in any of my vehicles.

I also have no desire to deal with singular minded people.

you made a blanket statement I could easily prove wrong but cause of ONLY your experiences you decided your opinion was fact.

smarten the hell up.

you drive a camaro, I’ve been using trucks with MULTIPLE 800+cca AGM batteries for years as well as over 45 years running a plow and have had to deal with the shift from engine hydraulics to battery power.

you got no idea what I’ve dealt with.

smarten the hell up.LI is not the answer thats for damned sure.

neither is posting like an idiot.

Last edited 7 months ago by dmacleo
Janice Moore
Reply to  dmacleo
February 26, 2022 4:29 pm

1. Here’s my “blanket statement” (again):

“lead-acids last FAR longer”

You have NOT proven that statement to be “wrong.”

2. I never claimed I knew what you have dealt with. You imply that I claimed that I do know.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 26, 2022 4:48 pm

P.S. Thank you for taking the time to explain. Glad to know that you are not a lithium battery hustler. Also, you have my deep respect for running a plough for decades. Indeed, you do know — much.

I hope that, “idiot” notwithstanding, you and I can be, if not friends, friendly allies for science truth.

Take care.

Last edited 7 months ago by Janice Moore
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 27, 2022 6:10 am

we’re fine 🙂

btw an agm IS a lead acid type.

it damned sure aint no LI LOL

Last edited 7 months ago by dmacleo
Janice Moore
Reply to  dmacleo
February 27, 2022 12:32 pm

😊

Smart Rock
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 26, 2022 1:58 pm

I got 9 years out of a lead-acid battery in my Dodge Ram 2500 truck. Darn thing couldn’t make it through the tenth November! If sitting for more than a week, I used a solar trickle charger to keep the battery topped up.

bonbon
Reply to  Smart Rock
February 26, 2022 3:50 pm

Sympathize.
My 4wd gave problems – once with an old battery, then it was not the darned battery, rather a cam sensor ($30).
Older rigs have less sensors, ECM’s , so it could be battery. Older rigs also do not have OBD2 plugs.

Ford plugs are darned proprietary!

Vlad the Impaler
February 26, 2022 9:06 am

Finally!! Someone else sees that we have a whole generation, or even a whole society, which is nothing but ScreenZombies!

The greatest invention of mankind is probably written language; it allowed all previous knowledge to be preserved and passed along to the future. The absolute WORST invention of mankind is the cell phone. Previous knowledge is no longer relevant; only the next TocTic (say it fast) video is.

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/constant-craving-how-digital-media-turned-us-all-into-dopamine-addicts?utm_source=pocket-newtab

As fast as you possibly can, dump YouTwitFace and any and all clones.

Paul Hurley (aka PaulH)
Reply to  Vlad the Impaler
February 26, 2022 2:15 pm

Found on the interwebs

538CC586-35F7-456E-8F4F-DFB809294B45-1636228289.3387.png
DMacKenzie
February 26, 2022 9:07 am

WEF website following…contains admission that 40 times the lithium mining capacity of the world is required. Reading between the lines, the WEF is a tycoons club in full greenwash overcoats, pushing save-the-(children,planet, wildlife,etc)….with a huge number of politically motivated followers incapable of basic arithmetic.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2022/02/3-ways-circular-economy-renewables-energy-transition/

Last edited 7 months ago by DMacKenzie
Dave Andrews
Reply to  DMacKenzie
February 27, 2022 7:19 am

“To switch the UK’s fleet of 31.5m ICEVs to battery electric vehicles (BEVs), it would take an estimated 207,900 tonnes of cobalt, 264,600 tonnes lithium carbonate, 7200 tonnes neodymium and dysprosium and 2,362,500 tonnes copper……… This amount is twice the current annual world production of cobalt, an entire years world production of neodymium and three quarters of the world production of lithium. Replacing the estimated 1.4 billion ICEVs worldwide would need forty times these amounts.”

‘Mining our green future’, Nature Reviews, by Prof. Richard Herrington, Dept of Earth Sciences, Natural History Museum, London, UK.

https://doi.org/10.1038/s41578-021-00325-9

Last edited 7 months ago by Dave Andrews
Bob Hunter
February 26, 2022 9:44 am

The War in the Ukraine confirms, the first principle, people are concerned about their own pocket book first. Principles go out the window if their pocketbooks are significantly impacted. Germany blocking countries giving the Ukraine German manufactured military equipment. Biden not sanctioning Russia oil sales. Most of the supporters for Net Zero live on the West Coast or NE Coast, regions that have very little fossil fuels. I am a CDN and the same in Canada. 90% of Canada’s fossil fuels are on the CDN prairies but the voter base is in Ontario & Quebec.

February 26, 2022 10:49 am

Okay “IT types”, I have another ‘req’ (requisition) open for a captive portal to do WiFi ‘I-net’ service in my local area … something that will display a ‘splash’ page if someone accesses my WiFI hotspot then I’ll give them the option of accessing one of a few dozen web pages or streaming videos hosted locally *only* – no internet service per se, just locally hosted material of my choice …

Realizing this may require special WiFI hotspot like something made by Ubiquiti (or others) that are purpose made for this, as well as,say, an Apache web server running on a Linux Ubuntu PC/server …

Any recommendation of hardware and/or software to accomplish this? The content will be for educational purposes on topics I choose, e.g. amateur radio, energy, the environment etc., from my perspective and with appropriate, select editorial comment.

Last edited 7 months ago by _Jim
bonbon
Reply to  _Jim
February 26, 2022 12:53 pm

Sounds like a honey-pot, not a hot-spot. How long will you survive a DOS?

Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 1:38 pm

You have experience with those things do you? Does your mind ALWAYS turn to the negative first? Are you an embedded LEO or agent monitoring the forum here? Is your allegiance possibly to a foreign, non-US ‘actor’, possibly in the Middle East maybe?

Last edited 7 months ago by _Jim
bonbon
Reply to  _Jim
February 26, 2022 1:48 pm

You have never managed a corporate DMZ, have you any idea what hits a firewall? The logs gray you hair!

Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 2:38 pm

**!!Nooze flash!!**

Have you even just L00KED at the FW (firewall) log file of your standard DSL modem/router!!!??? Constant incoming connect packets looking for a variety of ‘ports’ hopefully found available (not to mention open).

bonbon
Reply to  _Jim
February 26, 2022 3:17 pm

Never mind your silly house dsl outer.
Look at a major tech dmz router – with serious targets.
You have simply no idea.
Colleagues from Black Hat symposiums return pale with shaking hands!

Last edited 7 months ago by bonbon
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 3:30 pm

re: “Never mind your …”

You have no idea where I’ve been, what I’ve done. ATM the impression you’re leaving me with is that of a frothy mouthed teen

Last edited 7 months ago by _Jim
niceguy
Reply to  _Jim
February 26, 2022 5:42 pm

That’s where the other Internet, the IPv6 Internet, is helpful: so many adresses exist that there is no “noise” and you can run w/o a firewall and still get no packet “pollution” on your PC from random scans. Your packet dumps are “clean”.

Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 1:45 pm

re: “Sounds like a …”

This is tuning out ‘typical’ for solicitation for help from so-called “IT” types; to wit, no answers, only snark, weak attempts, stabs at humor, because, it seems, “IT” doesn’t REALLY mean what it says. It means something different, totally. If one REALLY needs help with engineering a specific solution to a need, don’t turn to ANYONE with “IT” in their title! This is what I’m discovering …

bonbon
Reply to  _Jim
February 26, 2022 3:21 pm

Do not bite the hands that feed IT :
https://www.theregister.com/

Derg
February 26, 2022 10:49 am

Elections in the US are coming up = Covid hysteria is over.

Dems need something.

bonbon
Reply to  Derg
February 26, 2022 1:36 pm

COVID19 does not vote – it eats.

Derg
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 3:49 pm

Not sure what you are writing, but Covid is over. Dems will not push hysteria anymore.

Drake
Reply to  Derg
February 26, 2022 4:35 pm

Dems will ALWAYS push hysteria. If logic and reason get into the discussion, they have NO CHANCE.

Retired_Engineer_Jim
February 26, 2022 11:15 am

Whatever happened to Representative Ocasio-Cortez? Haven’;t heard anything from her lately. Has she been muzzled?

Timothy Robinson
February 26, 2022 11:31 am

I’d like to wish you a nice weekend also Charles, but we need to have a laugh at the Seattle Times first,
By 2100, Washington could see nearly 3 feet in average sea level rise, according to new projections, a jump from 2 feet in past studies. Here’s what that means for King County and Washington’s coast.

Matheus
February 26, 2022 11:37 am

FIY, webinar by Peter Ridd, Jo Nova, and Walter Stack on the status of the Great Barrier Reef in Australia.

https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/1016457681333/WN_QTAwNdDYS2a6CYvc1O9lTQ

Tom.1
February 26, 2022 12:00 pm

Some statements are occasionally made that there is probably not enough lithium to make all the batteries that are needed for all the things people want to use it for. However, lithium is a relatively abundant element, atomically speaking. Abundance of elements in Earth’s crust – Wikipedia

LithiumAbundance.PNG
bonbon
Reply to  Tom.1
February 26, 2022 12:44 pm

The BB gets Lithium totally wrong : see
Light Elements Weigh in on Crisis in Cosmology
https://lppfusion.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/LPPFusion-Report-Jan.-14-2020.pdf

GOLE – Galactic Origin of Light Elements. See the Abundance info.

Dave Andrews
Reply to  Tom.1
February 27, 2022 7:41 am

According to the IEA the price of lithium carbonate for EV batteries increased by 150% in 2021. That’s with only 16m EVs on the road worldwide. There are over 1.4 billion ICEVs in the world.

ResourceGuy
February 26, 2022 12:13 pm

Send all the refugees to Brussels and London to wake them up.

rah
February 26, 2022 12:25 pm

Remember that we were told that the “vaccine” does not alter DNA?
Well, a new study invitro, indicates it does in the Mast Cells of the liver.
https://youtu.be/MjxlvduyJyc

bonbon
Reply to  rah
February 26, 2022 1:35 pm

Did they do that study with plenty of Scumpy?

bonbon
February 26, 2022 12:35 pm

A lot here do not understand how new inventions change everything .

For a view on marketing departments : see Bob Newhart :

IBM Comedy 1970: Bob Newhart – A Call From Herman Hollerith
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfskp4R53Q0

Bob Newhart : Merchandising the Wright Brothers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFUlQ7nQaQE

There was a time when the US got it! We would have no flight, nor computers if marketing depts. ran the company!

bonbon
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 12:37 pm

Not being a smoker, ever funnier :
Bob Newhart – Walter Raleigh

Drake
Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 5:30 pm

I love THE BOB. Clean AND funny.

ResourceGuy
February 26, 2022 12:42 pm

I’m going to post the comment on WUWT that was rejected on Yahoo…..before I pulled the plug on them.

“Don’t let the Russians sleep for four days straight and then see what happens.”

mega weld
February 26, 2022 12:58 pm

Interesting article on how Russia spent 95 million killing Britain’s fracking off.
https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/december-2019/the-plot-against-fracking/

bonbon
Reply to  mega weld
February 26, 2022 1:34 pm

How to say coluuusion with a British accent? Better ask Christopher Steel .

Drake
Reply to  mega weld
February 26, 2022 5:45 pm

Nice article.

I always thought that the coal miners were the ones who funded the anti nuclear power crowd. They always seemed to have food and drink and drugs and tents etc. Where DID the money come from?

Felix
February 26, 2022 1:33 pm

IANAWG or a CG, and I have a naive but serious question; I can imagine lots of snarky answers which don’t interest me.

Climate is usually / sometimes defined was 30 year old weather. Yet we continually hear of temperatures or winds or rainfall breaking 100 year old records. Seems like there should be some arbitrary limit. Recorded history is too short for any reliable measurements over, say, 200 years. Someone in the year 2500 claiming to have recorded the hottest day since 1907 seems a bit suspect.

Has anyone ever attempted to limit records to the last 30 years?

bonbon
Reply to  Felix
February 26, 2022 1:56 pm

Talking about people of 2500 is Hunting the Snark.
They found the Snark was a Boojum after all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hunting_of_the_Snark

That was more than 30 years ago.

Drake
Reply to  Felix
February 26, 2022 5:46 pm

Yes, griff.

Redge
Reply to  Felix
February 27, 2022 12:00 am

CET has reliable temperatures back to the 17th Century for Central England (reliable until the Met Office started adjusting things that is)

OK, it’s not the world but it’s the best we’ve got.

This version from Clive Best

CET-Seasons.png
Gary Pearse
February 26, 2022 1:46 pm

Ironically, it seems Putin is unwittingly going to save the West from the brainless headlong self destruction of our economies, culture and personal freedoms in a Dark Ages Great Reset by elitist billionaires, for which climate change is the phoney front.

We will relearn quickly that our security depends on a strong economy, an abundance of low cost energy, a well educated population and robust development of mineral and other resources.

rah
Reply to  Gary Pearse
February 26, 2022 2:04 pm

I hope your right, but I won’t hold my breath.

bonbon
Reply to  Gary Pearse
February 26, 2022 2:04 pm

Not so easy – peesy.
Putin said he knows the West weak-points. Remember 2008? We are heading to a financial crash to make 2008 look like a Dacha tea party.

Since we are heading there anyway, and sanctions were anyway on the way, way to go!

Of course we have another way in the forest path – split the banks with Glass-Steagall.
China has this.
So, just maybe, the transatlantic way will fork. Russia has no more illusions.

The Road Not Taken By Robert Frost

Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;

Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim,
Because it was grassy and wanted wear;
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,

And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way,
I doubted if I should ever come back.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 2:32 pm

re: “Putin said he knows the West weak-points.

You don’t say … and who was it that said the following?

“Where are the humanitarian fundamentals of Western political thought? … What are the general ethical limits in the world where the potential of science and machines are becoming almost boundless? … Some people in the West believe that an aggressive elimination of entire pages from their own history, ‘reverse discrimination’ against the majority in the interests of a minority, and the demand to give up the traditional notions of mother, father, family and even gender, they believe that all of these are the mileposts on the path towards social renewal.

Not to mention some truly monstrous things when children are taught from an early age that a boy can easily become a girl and vice versa. That is, the teachers actually impose on them a choice we all supposedly have. They do so while shutting the parents out of the process and forcing the child to make decisions that can upend their entire life. They do not even bother to consult with child psychologists – is a child at this age even capable of making a decision of this kind? Calling a spade a spade, this verges on a crime against humanity, and it is being done in the name and under the banner of progress.

Putin, at plenary session of the 18th Annual Meeting Of The Valdai International Discussion Club

https://wmbriggs.com/post/39208/#comment-207557

bonbon
Reply to  _Jim
February 26, 2022 3:13 pm

All of that stuff is fluff – watch 2007/2008. The entire financial system is about to implode. That needs to be acknowleged, not fluff stuff.

Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 3:17 pm

Is this the “Man has no soul” bonbon speaking now?

Reply to  bonbon
February 26, 2022 3:43 pm

You are proving to be a useful foil, or is that useful foo*, bonbon?

In any case: “Plenary Session at the 18th Annual Meeting of the Valdai Discussion Club”Oct 22, 2021
Putin as guest

niceguy
Reply to  _Jim
February 26, 2022 7:32 pm

No wonder why Putin can’t accept NATO anywhere near, more now than ever.

The West used to have conscience. Not perfect by far, but the West was not cray cray back then (Cold War times).

Climate believer
Reply to  Gary Pearse
February 27, 2022 3:32 am

I think this video by Neil Oliver is pertinent to your comment Gary, well worth a listen…

Last edited 7 months ago by Climate believer
February 26, 2022 2:53 pm

Just heard a “Steve Mosher” interviewed on Sky News downunder – is this the guy from wattsupwiththat or is it another Steve Mosher ? Bearded guy looked ~55 or 60 yrs old.