Michael Mann: Climate “Deniers” are Exploiting the Lifestyle Change Movement

Mann vs the Vegans. Left: Takver from Australia [CC BY-SA 2.0], via Wikimedia Commons. Right This is Michael Mann, Distinguished University Professor of Atmospheric Sciences and Geosciences, Penn State. CREDIT Patrick Mansell, Penn State

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

According to veteran climate conspiracy theorist Michael Mann, climate “deniers” are deflecting attention from large scale societal reform by deceiving people into focusing on climate friendly lifestyle changes.

Climate change deniers’ new battle front attacked
‘Pernicious’ campaign is unfair on well-meaning people who want to help – expert

Robin McKieScience editor
Sun 10 Nov 2019 06.02 AEDT

Mann told the Observer that although flat rejection of global warming was becoming increasingly hard to maintain in the face of mounting evidence, this did not mean climate change deniers were giving up the fight.

“First of all, there is an attempt being made by them to deflect attention away from finding policy solutions to global warming towards promoting individual behaviour changes that affect people’s diets, travel choices and other personal behaviour,” said Mann. “This is a deflection campaign and a lot of well-meaning people have been taken in by it.

Mann stressed that individual actions – eating less meat or avoiding air travel – were important in the battle against global warming. However, they should be seen as additional ways to combat global warming rather than as a substitute for policy reform.

“We should also be aware how the forces of denial are exploiting the lifestyle change movement to get their supporters to argue with each other. It takes pressure off attempts to regulate the fossil fuel industry. This approach is a softer form of denial and in many ways it is more pernicious.”

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/nov/09/doomism-new-tactic-fossil-fuel-lobby

I’m sorry to confess that for once Michael Mann is right.

All these years the Vegan and other lifestyle change movements have been climate skeptic fronts, a secret attempt by skeptics like myself to distract attention from real climate action, an effort to make climate action seem so unpalatable, ordinary people give up and accept fossil fuel into their lives.

Now that the brilliance of Michael Mann has exposed our plot, there seems no point continuing the Veganism charade.

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November 10, 2019 2:06 pm


So funny.


Big T
Reply to  Stephen Heins
November 10, 2019 5:57 pm

I really would like to let a big fart, but sadly, Mr Mann ain’t here to smell it.

Jin Yu Wan
Reply to  Big T
November 11, 2019 5:10 am

Do it just for the cause of greenhouse gases as often you might

November 10, 2019 2:08 pm

“… deflect attention away from finding policy solutions …”

He apparently doesn’t get that the only viable policy solution is no policy at all, which implies that no changes to life styles are required either.

Reply to  co2isnotevil
November 10, 2019 2:41 pm


I suppose now that Mann has solved the scientific climate conundrum all on his lonesome, he feels empowered to dictate political policy to people.

There are an awful lot of people who have professionally perished going down that route. Even Mann isn’t as slippery as a single politician, never mind a shoal of them.

John Endicott
Reply to  HotScot
November 11, 2019 8:30 am

Well they didn’t give him the Nobel prize for nothing. Oh wait, they didn’t give him the Nobel prize. Nevermind.

Reply to  co2isnotevil
November 10, 2019 3:32 pm

deflect attention??….

They are the only ones doing that…..directing it at “we” have to do something..

…and ignoring China, India, and the rest of the developing world shooting the finger at the whole thing

because they know the developing world will tell them to go pound sand…..
..unless it involves “we” sending them money to increase their pollution

Richard of NZ
Reply to  Latitude
November 10, 2019 5:23 pm

Once again Mr. Mann is deflecting the issue. As Mr. J F Kennedy almost said “ask not what you country can do, ask what YOU can do” and as Confucius is reputed to have said “the longest journey starts with a single step”. These two comments should be enough for any of the alarmists to take their own personal actions.

Duncan Smith
Reply to  Latitude
November 11, 2019 6:17 am

I think Mann’s message is much more clever than is seems on the surface. Most of the persons in a position to push the Climate Change narrative are the worst offenders of air travel, large/multiple homes, vacations, limos and so forth (UN, Decaprio, Al Gore & Mann himself). The credibility of the messengers and thus the message is at stake.

So what do you do?? You say individual contributions are not nearly as important or not important at all. It attempts to restore the do as I say, not as I do idiom with a basic attempt at justification. Painted with a wide brush, all these persons are off the hook (because he said so).

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  co2isnotevil
November 11, 2019 4:44 am

How can you have policy changes that won’t affect lifestyle and still somehow solve this imaginary problem? Mann should stay with Climate Science where he is a respected (cough, cough) expert on everything. When he strays from his “expertise” he sounds like an idiot.

John Endicott
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
November 11, 2019 8:32 am

Even when he sticks to his “expertise” he sounds like an idiot. The problem isn’t with the subject matter.

Michael Jankowski
November 10, 2019 2:10 pm

Travel behavior and other personal choices…well duh it is fair to criticize hypocrites. And isn’t changing human behavior the solution to any problem? Policy solutions work by…changing human behavior by force. Duh. This is changing human behavior by choice. Apparently Mann prefers force over choice.

The diet thing is real tinfoil hat stuff. Show me ONE example of a “denier” promoting changes in diet.

Sounds like Mann doesn’t like to be told to stop flying around to conferences, being such a heavy consumer, and eating meat…so it must be a climate change denier conspiracy!

Reply to  Michael Jankowski
November 10, 2019 2:20 pm

Actually he is just trying to hide the decline in meat eating so he does not have to go along with it.
Sounds like Mann is a devious , disingenuous, hypocrite. But I guess we knew that already.

Reply to  Greg
November 11, 2019 9:46 pm

You should probably add sociopath to the list. He clearly has no respect for humanity (only for his own smarmy self).

Reply to  Michael Jankowski
November 10, 2019 2:42 pm

Mann didn’t get to be a porker by eating just vegetables.

Reply to  HotScot
November 10, 2019 6:02 pm

Don’t forget cheese, bread and beer!

Reply to  HotScot
November 10, 2019 7:03 pm

Sugar and grains are all it takes.

Reply to  Billy
November 10, 2019 11:15 pm


I’ll testify to that. Just lost 20lbs in the last month by cutting them out, as well as any other carbohydrate.

Reply to  Billy
November 10, 2019 11:18 pm

Oh!…….And by eating lots of meat!

Ken the A/C expert
Reply to  HotScot
November 11, 2019 6:08 am

At 60% over my proper body weight and having been raised a vegetarian and now past social security age by more that a decade I can assure that you can become a porker without meet. I went on a diet to feel better and hopefully think better. Perhaps Mr. Mann missed the Mid Evil Warming Trend and the Little Ice Age as well as a few other independents in climate history because he was over weight. Note to yirgach: I eat cheese and pasta. Hate beer.

Reply to  Ken the A/C expert
November 11, 2019 9:52 am

The medieval warming was not evil, in fact, the resulting nice warm climate was the spark that kicked humanity out of the dark ages and into the renaissance.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  HotScot
November 11, 2019 8:14 am

I don’t know. This is Mann at home, notice the fruit bowl:

comment image

Also notice all the lights on for no reason. Personal lifestyle choices indeed.

Reply to  Michael Jankowski
November 10, 2019 3:20 pm

It seems that Mann is confusing ridicule by skeptics of those who make life style choices based on their belief in corrupt science with promoting such choices as a substitute for unnecessary policy.

Reply to  co2isnotevil
November 10, 2019 5:03 pm

You really have to admire the Mann,just think of the sleepless nights he must have had to turn that around!

Gunga Din
Reply to  Michael Jankowski
November 10, 2019 6:51 pm

The diet thing is real tinfoil hat stuff.

I think you mean “aluminum-foil hat stuff”.
To be green and vegan it can’t be mined.
It must be harvested from aluminum foiliage.
(It grows on trees.)

November 10, 2019 2:14 pm

Damn, I’ll have to get that big fat slice of mutton out of the fridge and eat it in the open tomorrow. The game’s up. No sense in hiding it any more and pretending to all my friends I’m a strong, healthy vegan.

Maybe we can start a new front saying we are enlightened beings and we don’t eat at all and feed on the light and energy from that. We can tell everyone that we all need to stop eating to save the planet.

I just hope this damned genius Mann does not catch us out again before we’ve convinced half the world to starve themselves as part of our cunning denialist plot.

Hang on, I’ve lost track, I’m not sure that makes sense. How does this work again.

J Mac
November 10, 2019 2:15 pm

The smartitude of mann defies rational description.

Reply to  J Mac
November 10, 2019 6:57 pm

A scientist so sh!t that his research missed the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age, and he’s still calling other people climate deniers?

Jeeeez, most such people would have gone round the back with a pistol and one bullet by now …….

J Mac
Reply to  philincalifornia
November 10, 2019 11:06 pm

An honorable man would have done the honorable thing, when faced with disclosure of his obscene fraud. Mann is not an honorable man….

November 10, 2019 2:20 pm

I will give up my carrot when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.

November 10, 2019 2:20 pm

By my reckoning, Mikey is now 54 years old.
So, only 11 years to go to reach the usual 65 retirement age.
His main worry at this stage would be –
“can I milk this lucrative CAGW schtick for another 11 years?”

Should be doable – the doomsters assert that this planet will only sustain humanity for another 12 years, so Mikey should be able to just sneak over the line into financially comfortable retirement.

(Even easier if the doomsters hold true to form and push out the CAGW apocalypse by another 10 years or so before this next prediction period reaches maturity)

Layor Nala
Reply to  Mr.
November 10, 2019 2:30 pm

Send him to Africa to talk to them about giving up their lifestyle without oil!

S.K. Jasper
Reply to  Layor Nala
November 10, 2019 3:29 pm

Be sure to send him by sailboat, rowboat or raft.

Greg Cavanagh
Reply to  S.K. Jasper
November 10, 2019 4:23 pm

Lets make sure he gets there; send him by rocket.

Reply to  S.K. Jasper
November 10, 2019 8:39 pm

He’s so full of his own importance that he “knows” he can just walk there.

Reply to  S.K. Jasper
November 11, 2019 7:30 am

Make him swim.

John Endicott
Reply to  S.K. Jasper
November 11, 2019 8:35 am

He can go by hot air balloon, as he’s supplies plenty of hot air every time he open his pie-hole.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Layor Nala
November 10, 2019 5:09 pm

Doesn’t have to be about oil. Tell them to give up any aspect of their lifestyle and see what reaction you get.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Mr.
November 10, 2019 5:03 pm

According to Greta, it’s now 8.5 years so he loses like the rest of us plebs.

Gordon Dressler
Reply to  Patrick MJD
November 11, 2019 8:03 am

Michael Mann, meet Greta Thunberg. You two duke it out, but please wait for me to get the popcorn.

Reply to  Gordon Dressler
November 11, 2019 9:22 am

Greta would make mincemeat of him – she really believes!

John Garrett
November 10, 2019 2:31 pm

I always thought Michael “Piltdown” Mann was a bit of a crackpot.

Now I know it.

Bruce Cobb
November 10, 2019 2:31 pm

There LiarMann goes again, just making stuff up.

November 10, 2019 2:32 pm

Chicken soup. Red beans and rice with smoked sausage. Slow cooker pot roast w/veggies. Quiche Lorraine for breakfast. Stuffed meatloaf, like my grandmas used to make it.

With every bite I take, I think think of Mann’s desperate need for the spotlight… and start giggling. He almost makes my a- – twitch.

I’m going back to my small but pleasant wines and talk to them. As I understand it, it soothes their souls.

Reply to  Sara
November 10, 2019 5:32 pm


Reply to  Sara
November 10, 2019 9:57 pm

OK, my mouth is watering. What do you use to stuff your meatloaf? I’ve never thought of stuffing it before. Michael Mann be d@mned! That sounds great.

Reply to  KcTaz
November 11, 2019 3:39 am

Get a box of stuffing at the grocery store (saves time, already seasoned). Put a one inch layer of ground beef in the bottom of your pan, then add the stuffing, and then pat the remaining ground beef into place around it and on top of it.

There are several recipes online for this, all from someone’s mother or grandmother. Good stuff on a cold winter day.

Reply to  Sara
November 11, 2019 7:07 am

I forgot to include the obvious here: Follow the package directions when preparing the stuffing for use.

My bad! Duh!!

November 10, 2019 2:33 pm

Mann is right, there is still a hard-core of ‘Deniers’ attempting to convert people to insect-eating diets!

November 10, 2019 2:38 pm

I’m trying to convince all Leftists to become lifelong Breatharians

John Robertson
November 10, 2019 2:47 pm

This is getting so confusing,I thought THE MANN, was a sceptic’s conspiracy to mock Climatology.
Especially the second raters who demand we address them as “Scientist Most Supreme.”
Which side is he on?
The success of the Hockey Stick Curve was on par with that other great hoax,Piltdown? Man.
The Mann exposed climatologists as fools and bandits.
Now he says mocking the Cult of Calamitous Climate distracts them from their stated intent to control all?
Who can take seriously a religious cult that bases its theology on man controlling the weather?
Surrender all your worldly goods,surrender to my madness and all will be well with your weather?
So speaketh The Mann??

November 10, 2019 2:51 pm

“Mann stressed that individual actions – eating less meat or avoiding air travel – were important in the battle against global warming. However, they should be seen as additional ways to combat global warming rather than as a substitute for policy reform.”

Though not a surprise; manniacal has a real problem telling the truth.

It appears to me that most of those rabid camps of proselytizing vegans and vegetarians were not climate skeptics in any normal sense.
Perhaps manniacal is more rabidly stupid than we were led to understand.

November 10, 2019 2:52 pm

I’m going on the Marmite-only diet effective immediately. Straight out of the jar. It’s the only way the planet can be saved.

Craig Moore
Reply to  BallBounces
November 10, 2019 3:10 pm

Are marmites the critters on marmal fur?

Reply to  Craig Moore
November 10, 2019 3:43 pm

They are sea-mites. Mar is Spanish for sea.

Craig from Oz
Reply to  BallBounces
November 10, 2019 4:59 pm

Ma might, but Pa WILL!!!

Stick to Vegimite. Not only is it veg (tis in the name – natch!) but can be effective in some situations as Drop Bear repellent.

Reply to  Craig from Oz
November 10, 2019 11:29 pm

Craig from Oz

Marmite and Vegemite are the same stuff, made from beer brewing waste products.

Other than a tweak to the recipes, they taste much the same until a decade or so ago when the makers made Marmite into a runny goo……..disgusting. I much prefer Vegemite which has a traditionally firm texture. Difficult to get in the UK these days.

Reply to  HotScot
November 11, 2019 4:32 am

the latest stunt from Kraft was?
to label Vegemite as suitable for vegans
seems they found reading labels too hard, so the company made it easier for them..
might be due to IQ issues due to lack of vitamins that Vegemite has;-)0
they might then use the newfound brain n stop the climate protest crap

meanwhile raging bushfires and we have the greens whining agw what dunnit
people arent impressed

lot of Nat Park roads were allowed to grow over and closed off
no burnoffs done
bit like Cali
NSW swallowed the green memes readily.

Joel O'Bryan
Reply to  BallBounces
November 10, 2019 6:15 pm

Vegemite… that’s the ticket… Vegemite sammiches.

Reply to  Eric Worrall
November 11, 2019 3:17 am

Or you hate it, which I do, as Marmite (and its carnivore twin Bovril) is/was made in my home town as there was a ready supply of brewers yeast from the local breweries, and the smell perveded everywhere, disgusting.
Vegemite is a similar product from Australia, British Marmite is marketed as “Our Mate” in Australia as there is another product called Marmite, which apparently is the New Zealand version.

November 10, 2019 2:53 pm

Im new here, but is this the same michael mann that, XR quoted on national television?

What evidence is he talking about? The 11 thousand scientists, including mickey mouse? Al gore? The vile greta? Ocasio and her love of uber and planes? Obamas ocean front mansion? Leonardo DiCaprios 8000 mile plane trip to pick up a environmental award? Or maybe its the greening of the earth and the cooling effect?

Right-Handed Shark
Reply to  Sunny
November 10, 2019 4:50 pm

Yes Sunny, it’s the same guy. Very much the comic relief around here. Type his name in the search box at the top of this page and you’ll have entertainment for days.

November 10, 2019 2:58 pm

“First of all, there is an attempt being made by them to deflect attention away from finding policy solutions to global warming towards promoting individual behaviour changes……..“This is a deflection campaign

OK Mike, please detail the logical link between those of us who are not taken in by your special brand of a catastrophic future to the “useful idiots” on your side who think they can assauge their consciences by going vegan or cutting their transatlantic vacations from two one per year.

Who do you think is coordinating this “campaign”?

November 10, 2019 3:03 pm

He presumably has lecturing duties. Many lecturers in UK and US nowadays publish their lecture notes, at least in summary form, online. Obviously only available in many cases to the relevant college registered staff or students, but some slip through to the general public. Has anyone experienced his formal university lecture course or read through his notes?
Oddly , and of couse I may have missed it , for such a distinguished scholar he does not seem to have published a textbook. Most senior lecturers I have known and worked with have at least attempted to do so, not necessarily for the money , although they might have a captive , paying , audience if they make their book the course book , but for status and to establish on the academic world their own way of seeing the physical world.
But Prof Mann seems to have leapt into the stratosphere without that initial step. Must be good then (if I seem a bit bitchy put it down to envy).

Reply to  mikewaite
November 10, 2019 11:59 pm


You have nothing to be envious of.

It’s one thing to get to where man has on merit. Quite another getting there by fraud.

I suspect you wouldn’t care for being a famous fraudster.

paul courtney
Reply to  mikewaite
November 11, 2019 8:15 am

mikewaite: Thank you, I was just about to give up saying something fresh and funny re: this goofball, but you opened a door……
Prof Mann evidently thinks making money the old-fashioned way (selling textbooks to students who must buy them and must attend your lectures) is for chumps. The big money he sees is grants for research. Since the science is settled (i.e., he settled on software that must bend up unless it bends down, then flip), he can focus on climate catastrophe communications. Writing a textbook? That is so 20th century. And a textbook would consume a lotta grad student time that is better spent scrubbing emails and data.

November 10, 2019 3:03 pm

Policy changes?
MM: Hello India and China, glad I got you both on the phone. We need you to stop funding those 1500+ NEW coal burning plants inside and outside your countries.
India: What are we supposed to do? Rely on intermittent sources?
MM: Well we can work out the details later. Right now we need you to stop.
China: Will you give us more money?
MM: Sure we can send you trillions.

Xi to Modi on a private text: Lets agree, take the money and then F’em we use whatever we want.
Modi to Xi on private text: LOL. You are my kind of person.

November 10, 2019 3:12 pm

Michael Mann totally misrepresents by far the most prevalent of denier’s views – that they admit some man-made global warming, but reject Mann’s deniers who deny that man made warming is not excessive, and not only can, but will be lessened by the switch to gen 4 nuclear reactors and electric cars, which will oddur because of economic and other factors that have nothing to do with CO2 emissions.

Reply to  ColMosby
November 10, 2019 10:03 pm

Nuclear is great but maybe not electric cars. Not so great after all, it seems.

* Date: 23/04/19

Johne Morton
November 10, 2019 3:18 pm

I’m confused. The warmists are opposed to the greening of the Earth because CO2 is good for plants, but plants absorb more sunlight because they’re darker and both simultaneously increase precipitation while leading to droughts. The people who want to exclusively eat plants (vegetarians) should be lauded, but are to blame? I, myself, kill two birds with one stone, by eating herbivorous animals that consume grasses and grains, like those pesky bovines and fowls, which with the right sauces have actually made a pleasure out of necessity…

November 10, 2019 3:20 pm

“First of all, there is an attempt being made by climate clowns to deflect attention away from exposing their fraud.”

Typo fixed.

Rod Evans
November 10, 2019 3:26 pm

Well, when I read this latest mental gymnastics from Mann, I have to confess, you could have knocked me down with a hockey stick…..
I am sure there are some climate realists who are vegan, but to claim the climate realist movement is driving the case for universal veganism, is clearly the working of a deeply disturbed mind.
I then remembered this is the opinion of Michael Mann, and as is the case these days, when reading anything from him, I regard it as complete nonsense.

Gunga Din
Reply to  Rod Evans
November 10, 2019 6:07 pm

She’s hardly a climate realist but …
I guess Mann is calling AOC a denier?
Or he’s accusing the us of what the those promoting “The Cause” are doing?
(He’d prefer they waited till after the masses have voted away their freedoms.)
Or he’s just got things upside down again.

John Endicott
Reply to  Gunga Din
November 11, 2019 8:52 am

Well AOC didn’t condemn the suggestion that we should eat babies when it was brought up by a Larouche troll during a town hall.
troll: We need to eat the babies
AOC: One of the things that is very important to us is that we need to treat the climate crisis with the urgency that it does present

John in Oz
November 10, 2019 3:30 pm

Mann told the Observer that although flat rejection of global warming was becoming increasingly hard to maintain in the face of mounting evidence, this did not mean climate change deniers were giving up the fight.

It appears that Mann does not yet accept that we have emerged from the Little Ice Age as there is only “mounting evidence” of the increase in temps, not fact.

Reply to  John in Oz
November 10, 2019 5:37 pm

As I have read, there is only one point five degree warming since the little ice age,have we just adjusted or does that make that much difference?

Reply to  Robert
November 11, 2019 12:49 am


Humankind adapted, and invented the Bikini.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  HotScot
November 11, 2019 9:28 am

Oddly enough, the bikini was invented during a cooler period, you know with the impending ice age and all.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Robert
November 11, 2019 4:58 am

And we should take into consideration that the globe has cooled off by about 0.4C since 2016, so that rise of 1.5C they are referring to is now about 1.1C. It might go lower still.

Andy Mansell
Reply to  Tom Abbott
November 11, 2019 6:48 am

Really? Is this published anywhere? I’d love to be able to upset the local XR druids….

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Andy Mansell
November 11, 2019 9:41 am

Here you go, Andy. This is the UAH satellite global temperature chart. It clearly shows the globe has cooled since 2016.


Don’t pay any attention to those bogus Hockey Stick charts. They are political documents, unfit for climate purposes.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Tom Abbott
November 11, 2019 9:29 am

Short term nonsense. Just like the warming since the LIA.

Andy Mansell
Reply to  Jeff Alberts
November 11, 2019 11:04 am

Cheers Tom

November 10, 2019 3:47 pm

A faction of a fraction and their predictions do not conform with observation, and the models exhibit a lack of skill to hindcast, let alone forecast, climate change, or weather outside a limited frame of reference, forward, backward, and in space, without regular injections of brown matter to force a preferred outcome.

November 10, 2019 4:10 pm

“flat rejection of global warming was becoming increasingly hard to maintain in the face of mounting evidence”

Even as flat insistence on AGW is becoming increasingly easy to maintain in the face of mounting evidence.



November 10, 2019 4:21 pm

Dr. Mann is actually right. Individual choices have no chance of meaningfully reducing atmospheric CO2.

People have to understand what is actually necessary to reach CO2 nirvana. We have to build one nuclear plant every day from now until 2050. Is that even possible?

If we can’t come up with the non-fossil energy, we have to reduce our consumption. What does that mean for the economy? I suspect that, when you run the numbers, it means mass starvation.

Here’s a link to a story about a guy who has come up with a working pv-hydrogen and nitrogen-ammonia tractor fuel. It cost him two million bucks to get a system that provides half what is required to run a 320 acre farm. He points out that if the stuff was mass produced it would be a lot cheaper. That’s true. Even so, it might cost a million bucks to get a system that could actually power the farm. Also, all that equipment is built using fossil fuels. What would it cost to use non-fossil energy to build all that stuff. Steel doesn’t smelt itself you know.

Lots of people have run the numbers and demonstrated that we have zero chance of weaning ourselves from fossil fuels over any reasonable time frame. Any attempt to do so will send us reeling into societal collapse. The few survivors will be cave people.

Reply to  commieBob
November 10, 2019 6:03 pm

How much fossil fuel do all Silicon Valley products and services use? Weird how we’re talking about everybody’s bread and butter, but not people who mindlessly stare at screens all day long. Huh, I wonder why?

Reply to  Luke
November 10, 2019 11:31 pm

Silicon valley would be impossible without fossil fuels or nuclear power. The power for computers is approaching 20% of the world’s electricity. link That’s not counting the electricity necessary to manufacture the equipment. It’s also not counting the electricity necessary to maintain the tech workers.

Our advanced technology is only possible because of cheap abundant energy.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  commieBob
November 11, 2019 5:11 am

“Lots of people have run the numbers and demonstrated that we have zero chance of weaning ourselves from fossil fuels over any reasonable time frame. Any attempt to do so will send us reeling into societal collapse.”

I think that sums it up perfectly. “Zero chance” People! It’s an alarmist/green pipedream. It’s your average person’s nightmare. It’s an unattainable goal absent a future big technological breakthrough. Until that happens, the pipedream is unattainable and people pushing it are delusional or disingenuous, and dangerous either way.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  commieBob
November 11, 2019 9:31 am

All that building is going to generate a lot of CO2.

D. Anderson
November 10, 2019 4:28 pm

Whenever I see a picture of Mann I hear “Adibi adibi adibi That’s all folks”.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  D. Anderson
November 11, 2019 9:32 am

He does tell a lot of porkies.

November 10, 2019 4:35 pm

Well it is true, professor Mann.( or doctor, or whatever) we sceptics will certainly make fools out of the fringe followers of your movement. and there are lots of fringes 🙂

Have you ever wondered why your one central message has accumulated so many fruit-loop fringes ?

November 10, 2019 5:04 pm

Leftists must use force, or it doesn’t count.

Allowing individuals to take care of their own personal patch of the planet first, in whatever way they see fit (to in effect, “clean up your room”) is a right-wing way of looking at the world. And that will not be tolerated.

Rex Tasha
Reply to  damp
November 10, 2019 5:34 pm

Good point damp. Are you channeling Jordan Peterson? I know I do.

Reply to  Rex Tasha
November 10, 2019 6:17 pm

Me too.

One thing Peterson and others rail against is the kind of parenting that produces the need for safe spaces in universities. That leads to all kinds of evils.

The pendulum may be swinging back to sanity. There is a growing Adventure Playground movement. Such playgrounds encourage kids to take risks and thereby learn how to manage risk.

I hope we have seen the last generation of wusses who need safe spaces and trigger warnings for everything. Life is risky. The correct action is to deal with it head on. Hiding under the bed is self-defeating and pathological.

Clarky of Oz
November 10, 2019 5:21 pm

Flicking through you tube yesterday I stumbled across some excellent presentations by Christopher Essex and others. Youtube being what it is it eventually cycled onto other speakers on the general topic of climate change and it ended up on one by the said Michael Mann.

Climate Change Denial in the Age of Trump | Michael Mann (March 2018)

I sat through it. What an ordeal.

I found him to be a completely insipid presenter, waffling, poorly organised, devoid of facts, heavy on opinions, hesitant and totally unconvincing. It was painful to watch. It was so bad it reminded me of my first attempt in a public speaking course. It was embarrassing. I almost felt sorry for him. I certainly felt sorry for his audience.

November 10, 2019 5:34 pm

Can someone please explain why they think they will ever succeed in de-industrializing the global economy. They are effectively demanding that nearly 8 billion join what amounts to a cult.

Reply to  Adam
November 10, 2019 6:59 pm

Does anyone think that?

John Endicott
Reply to  Adam
November 11, 2019 8:55 am

Not only have 8 billion join a cult, but a cult that demands most of them die.

Joel O'Bryan
November 10, 2019 5:42 pm

The anti-capitalist social change crowd has always been around. So now Mann’s just ticked that his Climate Clown Bus has been hijacked by them — XR and the lunatic Leftists spouting their anti-capitalism agendas.

They’ve taken his climate clown bus and painted it up with alarmist graffiti to fit their their Social Justice, Marxist message, rebranded it as Climate Justice and other nonsense. Mann and the rest of mainstream climate clown community are the real enablers because they refuse to call out the alarmist messages (rapid SLR, 12 years to act nonsense, etc.) for the junk claims they are..

All we have to do is to keep pointing to how ridiculous the whole scam is now.

Robert B
November 10, 2019 5:43 pm

Damn. Sprung. Off to the pub now for a mixed grill.

November 10, 2019 6:26 pm

Seriously it’s just Mann trying to remain cutting edge and relevant, why even promote the junk from the narcissist.

John Endicott
Reply to  LdB
November 11, 2019 8:56 am

It’s called ridicule.

November 10, 2019 6:27 pm

Actually Mr Mann I’m decrying the infantilism of you and the climate changers with your perpetual fallacy of composition illiteracy-
Normally authorities around the world ban pyramid selling schemes for the same reason but apparently Mr Joyce thinks they shouldn’t. I don’t listen to these Gretaheads nor try to psychoanalyse their intellectual shortcomings and besides I’m not licensed to prescribe their medications anyway.

Craig from Oz
November 10, 2019 6:44 pm

But it has been my Childhood Dream to deflect attention! Ever since I was six and first discovered the joy of lying.

Now Mann has stolen my dream.


Fine. You win Mann. Back to eating my body weight in bacon and buying myself a new turbo diesel.

November 10, 2019 7:12 pm

First, I was there during Dr. Mann’s testimony on March 29, 2017 in front of the Committee of Science, Space, and Technology, where he compared himself to a oppressed Russian scientist from the Stalin era: As he put it, “Call people ‘deniers” all you want, use any name you want…beat them into submission, that’s a Stalinist tactic.”

Although, a careful reading of his Committee text shows Mann at his bullying, uncivil, and name-calling best. In fact, during the question and answer period, Mann denied calling fellow panelist Dr. Judith Curry a “denier” in several earlier interviews he gave to the media. In response, Dr. Curry quietly said Mann should read his own remarks.

Clearly, Penn State University’s Professor Michael Mann has no sense of humor, nor does he have a sense of irony.

Speaking at the “Lecture on Academic and Intellectual Freedom,” Mann gave a speech preaching for the end of climate change debate at the University of Michigan, after Michigan’s President Mark Schlissel introduced guest speaker Michael Mann by saying that the University of Michigan will always be “an inalienable forum for discovery, debate, and discussion.”

This story is another reminder that “scientists” like Michael Mann are already using what he called “trench warfare” while claiming victimhood. Anyway, I hope that Dr. Mann will share disagreements with Dr. Curry with some kind of equanimity at the the upcoming “discovery, debate, and discussion.”

Roger Knights
Reply to  Stephen Heins
November 11, 2019 5:28 am

BTW, in case anyone still has respect for card-carrying, capital-S “Skeptics” organizations, CSI recently made Mann a Fellow (or some such position). Kendrick (sp?), the CSI-magazine’s main editor, is a rabid warmist.

Paul Nevins
November 10, 2019 8:00 pm

I’m struggling against the “mounting evidence”. The struggle I’m having is finding it. The more I learn the less evidence there is.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Eric Worrall
November 11, 2019 5:18 am

“Alarmists genuinely seem to think the evidence for global warming is utterly irrefutable,”

Yes, and they do this without having any of this evidence. We know this because when we ask them to provide their evidence, they NEVER do. That would be because they don’t have any evidence to provide, so they lie about it. Prove you are not lying about it, Alarmists. Show us some of this evidence. For once.

John Endicott
Reply to  Tom Abbott
November 11, 2019 9:01 am

Well they have all the evidence, just as Schiff-for-brains insisted for years that he had all the evidence of Trump-Russian collusion and that it’d all come out with the Mueller report which would be so damning that impeachment for Trump-Russian collusion would follow. The Mueller report came and went, finding no evidence of Trump-Russian collusion, and Schiff-for-brains just ignored the big dud of the Mueller report and moved on to the next excuse he could find for impeachment.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  John Endicott
November 11, 2019 10:00 am

That’s a good analogy. The Alarmists have about as much evidence that human-caused climate change is real, as the Democrats have evidence that Trump was colluding with the Russians. In both cases, the narrative is a lie perpetuated for political purposes, in an effort to gain power for the perpetrators..

Reply to  Paul Nevins
November 11, 2019 3:32 am

Yes Paul the more you encounter these diehard alarmists you quickly come to the conclusion that 97% of them don’t have a clue about the science. My favourite one when they’re really emoting all over the place is to ask them how much the global sea level is rising annually at present according to the CSIRO and NOAA.
Don’t forget with the stunned silence and then the coughing and spluttering obfuscation to let them down a bit with- Well perhaps you’d care to hazard a guess if you don’t know exactly? Anyone? The guesses are bemusing and it’s a bit cruel but sometimes they really deserve shutting up.

michael hart
November 10, 2019 8:01 pm

So Mr Mann thinks we need a bit less carrot and bit more stick in order for the world to do as he says?

He’s probably right. I never heard of any self-respecting dictator wanting to subjugate the world, or even his own country, using anything less than large amounts of the stick option. I don’t see the global warming dictators as any different than their predecessors.

Joel O'Bryan
November 10, 2019 9:09 pm

After some reflection, what Mann is really arguing for is an End to Free Speech here in the West, most especially the US.
Chinese-government style.

Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
November 11, 2019 1:45 am

Mann is like the medical “scientists” who practice… public policy, like https://twitter.com/ThisIsOurLane

The NRA has done more to discredit the mainstream medical establishment than any medical mega scandal.

Tom Abbott
November 10, 2019 9:40 pm

From the article: “Mann told the Observer that although flat rejection of global warming was becoming increasingly hard to maintain in the face of mounting evidence,”

Such as?

Bruce Cobb
Reply to  Tom Abbott
November 11, 2019 4:14 am

Schmodels. Oh yeah, and weather.

November 10, 2019 10:17 pm

Mann told the Observer that although flat rejection of global warming was becoming increasingly hard to maintain in the face of mounting evidence, this did not mean climate change deniers were giving up the fight.

Flat out rejection of global warming? Well I guess both of those guys are finding it tough. What about us sceptics who are questioning the science behind the alarmist claims of catastrophe?

Reply to  TimTheToolMan
November 11, 2019 10:03 am

Don’t you mean questioning the lack of science?

Mann doesn’t understand that skeptics will never go away and the reason is that the fake science he considers mounting evidence coming out of the conflict of interest at the UN/IPCC/UNFCCC is so incredibly wrong, calling it science is an insult to all legitimate scientists.

November 10, 2019 11:59 pm

Although global warming alarmism is becoming increasingly hard to maintain in the face of mounting evidence, this did not mean climate change alarmists were giving up the fight.

Fixed it for you Mike.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Stonyground
November 11, 2019 10:06 am

I like your version better, Stony! And of course, your version has the added benefit of being the truth. 🙂

Rod Evans
November 11, 2019 12:23 am

Has anyone ever met an actual climate change denier?
That is a serious question….
I am a climate change realist. I know the climate is in constant flux. I know it has changed, continues to change and will always be changing. What Mann is doing, is knowingly being evasive. He is hiding the truth by claiming those who argue against Man Made Climate Change (MMCC) are also refusing to accept the science behind climate change. That is clearly not the case, but by conflating the two, it opens up a gap in the debate, into which he can force his vested interest lever and then make public comment, no matter how bizarre.
The fact he is commenting in the Observer is also indicative of the political position the “Mann Made Climate” followers worship.
For those who visit this site, but who do not yet follow Tony Heller, can I suggest doing so. Pulling back the curtain on junk science is what he does.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Rod Evans
November 11, 2019 10:18 am

“Has anyone ever met an actual climate change denier?
That is a serious question….”

What the alarmists are really saying is “human-caused climate change” denier. But they conflate human-caused with natural climate change, and then pretend that if you are denying “climate change” then you are denying a fundamental activity of the atmosphere.

What skeptics deny is that there is any evidence that humans are causing detrimental climate changes.

In other words, the alarmists are trying to confuse the subject as part of their propaganda effort.

Skeptics don’t deny that the climate changes. It changes continuously and has done so since the begnning of time on the Earth. What Skeptics deny is that there is evidence that humans are causing anything unusual to happen in the atmosphere. The Earth’s climate changes. It gets hot. It gets cold. It changes all the time within bounds. There is no evidence that human activity is pushing the atmosphere out of those bounds. None whatsoever.

Alarmists are invited to prove this wrong. I write that without *any* expectation that any evidence will be provided. They won’t provide any evidence because they don’t have any evidence no matter what they say. Put up, or shut up. Just saying there is evidence does not make it so.

November 11, 2019 5:17 am

Michael Mann is just a genious in manipulation and propaganda. His supporters, like the Observer/Guardian newspaper group just lap up any thing he says without question. Why? Because he always says the ‘right’ thing.

No-one is suggesting lifestyle choices should be a substitute for wider political action. We are just asking that those shouting the loudest about the climate change alarm need to show they practice what the preach, and are making the sacrifices that they demand others should make – eg. flying less or not flying.

Another one like him, is the UK’s only Green Party MP, Caroline Lucas. She has opposed new runways, and got her self arrested for opposing shale fracking. And yet, this week she admitted she flies ! – to see her son who lives in USA. How sweet. She’s prepared to put family love before saving the planet.

Andy Mansell
Reply to  Oakwood
November 11, 2019 6:50 am

Maybe she could beg a lift back on the same sail boat as Greta?

Andy Mansell
November 11, 2019 5:30 am

How is Mann still at liberty after committing fraud and how does he get away with constantly calling people ‘deniers’? Isn’t that the term for those who deny the Holocaust? If us normal types did this we’d be arrested before breakfast.

Original Mike M
November 11, 2019 5:37 am

Every atom of carbon in food came from one place – the air. All food is therefore carbon neutral, diet has exactly zero influence on the carbon cycle.

November 11, 2019 6:12 am

My wife and I are completing our fourth year as vegans. The main reason we made the switch was the scenarios laid out in the documentary Cowspiracy. I will admit to feeling quite chagrined to discover that, the producer, Leonardo DiCaprio, was, all this time, merely a pawn of the climate skeptic movement! I have been duped!

Fortunately, even though I no longer consider the GHG output of the animal/agricultural industry to be an issue, there are still plenty of reasons to be vegan. Gotta watch out for the Skeptic/Vegan conspiracy though!

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Glenn
November 11, 2019 10:26 am

According to one article posted at WUWT not long ago, cows are actually a benefit to the Earth’s climate, and farmers should recieve a payment from environmentalists/alarmists for having the good sense to raise them.

Cows are carbon-dioxide neutral.

Reply to  Tom Abbott
November 11, 2019 11:01 am

well, there’s CO2, then there’s the methane. I’ll see if I can find the ‘net benefit’ article. I did find some articles on the ‘net about converting cow manure into methane-biogas!

November 11, 2019 10:18 am

Mann is nothing more than an activist. Not sure he was ever a scientist.

Killer Marmot
November 11, 2019 10:39 am

Shorter Mann: We’re [here] to create a more powerful and all-encompassing government, so don’t get caught up in personal-responsibility nonsense.

November 12, 2019 6:46 am

The great news is that as I don’t agree with the hypothesis of catastrophic man-made global warming I am not a hypocrite.

And in the future, when the Vegan police come for my steak they will have to pry it from my dead hands.

John Endicott
Reply to  ThinkingScientist
November 12, 2019 9:14 am

seeing as the “vegan police” tend to be of the ilk who think there are too many people and that the population has to be drastically reduced, prying it from your dead hands would be what they consider a win-win.

Johann Wundersamer
November 21, 2019 9:51 am

Captain Beefheart goes full vegan: Big Eyed Beans From Venus:


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