Global warming on trial and the elementary error of physics that caused the global warming scare

By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley

This will be a long posting, but it will not be found uninteresting.

Global warming on trial: Global warming goes on trial at 8.00 am this Wednesday, 21 March 2018, in Court 8 on the 19th floor of the Federal Building at 450 Golden Gate Avenue, San Francisco. Court 8 is the largest of the courtrooms in the Federal District Court of Northern California. They’re clearly expecting a crowd. The 8 am start, rather than the usual 10 am, is because the judge in the case is an early bird.

The judge: His Honor Judge William Haskell Alsup, who will preside over the coyly-titled “People of California” v. British Petroleum plc et al., is not to be underestimated. Judge Alsup, as the senior member of the Northern California Bench (he has been there for almost two decades), gets to pick the cases he likes the look of. He is no ordinary, custard-faced law graduate. Before he descended to the law (he wanted to help the civil rights movement), he earned a B.S. in engineering at Mississippi State University.

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Don’t mess with me: His Honor Judge Alsup flourishing a tract by his mentor, the Supreme Court justice whom he once served as Clerk.

Six years ago, in an acrimonious hearing between Oracle and Google, the two Silicon-Valley giants were arguing about nine lines of computer code, which Oracle said Google had filched for its Android cellphone system. In preparation for the case, Oracle had tested 15 million lines of Android code, and had found that just nine lines – a subroutine known as rangeCheck – had been copied keystroke for keystroke. Oracle’s case was that these nine lines of code, though representing only 0.00006% of the Android software, were a crucial element in the system. Judge Alsup did not buy that argument.

Rumors gather about great men. In hushed tones, those who talk of Judge Alsup say he taught himself the Java programming language so that he could decide the rangeCheck case. In fact, he is not familiar with Java, but he does write computer code using qBasic, which used to be bundled free with MS-DOS. On the vast desk in his book-lined office sits a 2011-vintage Dell laptop, the only one he has that will still run qBasic. He has written programs for his ham-radio hobby, for the Mastermind board game, and for his wife’s bridge game.

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The 18-year-old Bill Alsup at his ham radio console in Mississippi.

This, then, is that rarest of creatures, a tech-savvy judge. And he has taken the very rare but commendable step of ordering both parties to answer nine scientific questions about climate change in preparation for what he has called a “tutorial” on the subject next Wednesday.

Hearing of this case, and of Bill Alsup’s starring role, I wondered what line of argument might convince a scientifically literate judge that the plaintiffs, two Californian cities who want the world’s five biggest oil corporations to pay them to adapt to rising sea level, that there is no cause for alarm about manmade global warming.

Judge Alsup might well be moved to dismiss the plaintiffs’ case provided that the defendants were able to establish definitively that fears of global warming had been very greatly exaggerated.

Two propositions: If the following two propositions were demonstrated, His Honor might decide – and all but a few irredentists would be compelled to agree – that global warming was not a problem and that the scare was over.

1. It can be proven that an elementary error of physics is the sole cause of alarm about global warming – elementary because otherwise non-climatologists might not grasp it.

2. It can be proven that, owing to that elementary error, current official mid-range estimates of equilibrium sensitivity to anthropogenic activity are at least twice what they should be.

Regular readers will know that my contributions here have been infrequent in the past year. The reason is that I have had the honor to lead a team of eminent climatological researchers who have been quietly but very busily investigating how much global warming we may cause, known as the “equilibrium-sensitivity” question.

We can now prove both points itemized above, and we have gone to more than customary lengths to confirm by multiple empirical methods what we originally demonstrated by a theoretical method. The half-dozen methods all cohere in the same ballpark.

Three days before His Honor posted up his list of questions on climate science, my team had submitted a paper on our result to a leading climatological journal (by convention, I am bound not to say which until publication).

The judge’s question: When I saw His Honor’s eighth question, “What are the main sources of heat that account for the incremental rise in temperature on Earth?”, I contacted my eight co-authors, who all agreed to submit an amicus curiae or “friend-of-the-court” brief.

Our reply: Our amicus brief, lodged for us by a good friend of the ever-valuable Heartland Institute, concludes with a respectful recommendation that the court should reject the plaintiffs’ case and that it should also order the oil corporations to meet their own costs in the cause because their me-too public statements to the effect that global warming is a “problem” that requires to be addressed are based on the same elementary error as the plaintiffs’ case.

In effect, the oil corporations have invited legal actions such as this, wherefore they should pay the cost of their folly in accordance with the ancient legal principle volenti non fit injuria – if you stick your chin out and invite someone to hit it, don’t blub if someone hits it.

The judge has the right to accept or reject the brief, so we accompanied our brief with the usual short application requesting the court to accept it for filing. Since the rules of court require the brief to be lodged as an exhibit to the application, the brief stands part of the court papers in any event, has been sent to all parties, and is now publicly available on PACER, the Federal judiciary’s public-access database.

Therefore, I am at last free to reveal what we have discovered. There is indeed an elementary error of physics right at the heart of the models’ calculations of equilibrium sensitivity. After correcting that error, and on the generous assumption that official climatology has made no error other than that which we have exposed, global warming will not be 3.3 ± 1.2 K: it will be only 1.2 ± 0.15 K. We say we can prove it.

The proof: I shall now outline our proof. Let us begin with the abstract of the underlying paper. It is just 70 words long, for the error (though it has taken me a dozen years to run it to earth) really is stupendously elementary:

Abstract: In a dynamical system, even an unamplified input signal induces a response to any feedback. Hitherto, however, the large feedback response to emission temperature has been misattributed to warming from the naturally-occurring, non-condensing greenhouse gases. After correction, the theoretically-derived pre-industrial feedback fraction is demonstrated to cohere with the empirically-derived industrial-era value an order of magnitude below previous estimates, mandating reduction of projected Charney sensitivity from clip_image006 to clip_image008.

Equations: To understand the argument that follows, we shall need three equations.

The zero-dimensional-model equation (1) says that equilibrium sensitivity or final warming ΔTeq is the ratio of reference sensitivity or initial warming ΔTref to (1 – f ), where f is the feedback fraction, i.e., the fraction of ΔTeq represented by the feedback response ΔT(ref) to ΔTref. The entire difference between reference and equilibrium sensitivity is accounted for by the feedback response ΔT(ref) (the bracketed subscript indicates a feedback response).

ΔTeq = ΔTref / (1 – f ). (1)

The zero-dimensional model is not explicitly used in general-circulation models. However, it is the simplest expression of the difference between reference sensitivity before accounting for feedback and equilibrium sensitivity after accounting for feedback. Eq. (1), a simplified form of the feedback-amplification equation that originated in electronic network analysis, is of general application when deriving the feedback responses in all dynamical systems upon which feedbacks bear. The models must necessarily reflect it.

Eq. (1) is used diagnostically not only to derive equilibrium sensitivity (i.e. final warming) from official inputs but also to derive the equilibrium sensitivity that the models would be expected to predict if the inputs (such as the feedback fraction f ) were varied. We conducted a careful calibration exercise to confirm that the official reference sensitivity and the official interval of the feedback fraction, when input to Eq. (1), indeed yield the official interval of equilibrium sensitivity.

The feedback-fraction equation (2): If the reference sensitivity ΔTref and the equilibrium sensitivity ΔTeq are specified, the feedback fraction f is found by rearranging (1) as (2):

f = 1 – ΔTref / ΔTeq. (2)

The reference-sensitivity equation (3): Reference sensitivity ΔTref is the product of a radiative forcing ΔQ0, in Watts per square meter, and the Planck reference-sensitivity parameter λ0, in Kelvin per Watt per square meter.

ΔTref = λ0 ΔQ0. (3)

The Planck parameter λ0 is currently estimated at about 0.3125, or 3.2–1 K W–1 m2 (Soden & Held 2006; Bony 2006, Appendix A; IPCC 2007, p. 631 fn.). The CO2 radiative forcing ΔQ0 is 3.5 W m–2 (Andrews 2012). Therefore, from Eq. (3), reference sensitivity ΔTref to doubled CO2 concentration is about 1.1 K.

The “natural greenhouse effect” is not 32 K: The difference of 32 K between natural temperature TN (= 287.6 K) in 1850 and emission temperature TE (= 255.4 K) without greenhouse gases or temperature feedbacks was hitherto imagined to comprise 8 K (25%) base warming ΔTB directly forced by the naturally-occurring, non-condensing greenhouse gases and a 24 K (75%) feedback response ΔT(B) to ΔTB, implying a pre-industrial feedback fraction f ≈ 24 / 32 = 0.75 (Lacis et al., 2010).

Similarly, the CMIP3/5 models’ mid-range reference sensitivity ΔTS (= 3.5 x 0.3125 = 1.1 K) and Charney sensitivity ΔT (= 3.3 K) (Charney sensitivity is equilibrium sensitivity to doubled CO2), imply a feedback fraction f = 1 – 1.1 / 3.3 = 0.67 (Eq. 2) in the industrial era.

The error: However, climatologists had made the grave error of not realizing that emission temperature TE (= 255 K) itself induces a substantial feedback. To correct that long-standing error, we illustratively assumed that the feedback fractions f in response to TE and to ΔTB were identical. Then we derived f simply by replacing the delta values ΔTref, ΔTeq in (2) with the underlying entire quantities Tref, Teq, setting Tref = TE + ΔTB, and Teq = TN (Eq. 4),

f = 1 –Tref / Teq = 1 – (TE + ΔTB) / TN

= 1 – (255.4 + 8) / 287.6 = 0.08. (4)

Contrast this true pre-industrial value f = 0.08 with the CMIP5 models’ current mid-range estimate f = 1 – 1.1 / 3.3 = 0.67 (Eq. 2), and with the f = 0.75 applied by Lacis et al. (2010) not only to the 32 K “entire natural greenhouse effect” but also to “current climate”.

Verification: We took no small trouble to verify by multiple empirical methods the result derived by the theoretical method in Eq. (4).

Test 1: IPCC’s best estimate (IPCC, 2013, fig. SPM.5) is that some 2.29 W m–2 of net anthropogenic forcing arose in the industrial era to 2011. The product of that value and the Planck parameter is the 0.72 K reference warming (Eq. 3).

However, 0.76 K warming was observed (taken as the linear trend on the HadCRUT4 monthly global mean surface temperature anomalies, 1850-2011).

Therefore, the industrial-era feedback fraction f is equal to 1 – 0.72 / 0.76. or 0.05 (Eq. 2). That is close to the pre-industrial value f = 0.08: but it is an order of magnitude (i.e., approximately tenfold) below the models’ 0.67 or Lacis’ 0.75.

There is little change that some feedbacks had not fully acted. The feedbacks listed in IPCC (2013, p. 818, table 9.5) as being relevant to the derivation of equilibrium sensitivity are described by IPCC (2013, p. 128, Fig. 1.2) as having the following durations: Water vapor and lapse-rate feedback hours; Cloud feedback days; Surface albedo feedback years.

The new headline Charney sensitivity: Thus, Charney sensitivity is not 1.1 / (1 – 0.67) = 3.3 K (Eq. 1), the CMIP5 models’ imagined mid-range estimate (Andrews 2012). Instead, whether f = 0.05 or 0.08, Charney sensitivity ΔTeq = 1.1 / (1 – f ) is 1.2 K (Eq. 1). That new headline value is far too small to worry about.

Test 2: We sourced mainstream estimates of net anthropogenic forcing over ten different periods in the industrial era, converting each to reference sensitivity using Eq. (3) and then finding the feedback fraction f for each period using Eq. (2).

The mean of the ten values of f was 0.12, somewhat higher than the value 0.05 based on IPCC’s mid-range estimate of 2.29 W m–2 net anthropogenic forcing in the industrial era. The difference was driven by three high-end outliers in our table of ten results. Be that as it may, Charney sensitivity for f = 0.12 is only 1.25 K.

Test 3: We checked how much global warming had occurred since 1950, when IPCC says our influence on climate became detectable. The CMIP5 mid-range prediction of Charney sensitivity, at 3.3 K, is about equal to the original mid-range prediction of 21st-century global warming derivable from IPCC (1990, p. xiv), where 1.8 K warming compared with the pre-industrial era [equivalent to 1.35 K warming compared with 1990] is predicted for the 40-year period 1991-2030, giving a centennial warming rate of 1.35 / (40 / 100) = 3.3 K.

This coincidence of values allowed us to compare the 1.2 K Charney sensitivity derived from f on [0.05, 0.12] in Eq. (4) with the least-squares linear-regression trend on the HadCRUT4 monthly global mean surface temperature anomalies over the 68 years 1950-2017. Sure enough, the centennial-equivalent warming was 1.2 K/century:

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The centennial-equivalent warming rate from 1950-2017 was 1.2 K/century

Test 4: We verified that the centennial-equivalent warming rate in the first 17 years (one-sixth) of the 21st century was not significantly greater than the rate since 1950. We averaged the monthly global mean surface and lower-troposphere temperature anomalies from the HadCRUT4 terrestrial and UAH satellite datasets and derived the least-squares linear-regression trend (the bright blue line on the graph below).

The satellite data were included because they cover a five-mile-high slab of the atmosphere immediately above the surface, and have a coverage greater than the terrestrial measurements. The trend was found to be clip_image012, equivalent to clip_image014/century:

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Test 5: To confirm that we had understood feedback theory correctly, one of my distinguished co-authors, a hands-on electronics engineer, heard of our result and built a test rig in which we were able to specify the input signal (i.e., emission temperature TE) as a voltage, and also the direct-gain factor μ to allow for direct natural or anthropogenic forcings, and the feedback fraction β (we were using the more precise form of Eq. 1 that is usual in electronic network analysis). Then it was a simple matter directly to measure the output signal (i.e. equilibrium sensitivity ΔTeq).

The most crucial of the many experiments we ran on this rig was to set μ to unity, implying no greenhouse forcing at all. We set the feedback fraction β to a non-zero value and then verified that the output signal exceeded the input signal by the expected margin. Not at all to our surprise, it did. This experiment proved that emission temperature, on its own, induced a feedback response that climatology had hitherto overlooked.

This is where the elementary error made by climatologists for half a century has had its devastating effect. Look again at Eq. (1). The input signal is altogether absent. Although it is acceptable to use Eq. (1) to derive equilibrium sensitivities from reference sensitivities, the mistake made by the modelers was to assume, as Lacis et al. (2010) and many others had assumed, that the entire difference of 32 K between the natural temperature TN in 1850 and the emission temperature TE was accounted for by the natural greenhouse effect, comprising a direct greenhouse warming ΔTB = 8 K and a very large feedback reponse ΔT(B) = 24 K to ΔTB.

However, in truth – this is the crucial point – the emission temperature TE (= 255 K), even in the absence of any greenhouse gases, induces a large feedback response ΔTE. This feedback response to the input signal is entirely uncontroversial in electronic network analysis and in control theory generally, but we have not been able to find any acknowledgement in climatology that it exists.

Just as Lacis (2010) did, the modelers assumed that the industrial-era feedback fraction must be every bit as large as the pre-industrial feedback fraction that they had erroneously inflated by adding the large feedback response induced by emission temperature to the small feedback response induced by the presence of the naturally-occurring greenhouse gases.

It was that assumption that led the modelers to assume that there must be some very strongly positive feedbacks, chief among which was the water-vapor feedback. However, although the Clausius-Clapeyron relation indicates that the space occupied by the atmosphere can carry near-exponentially more water vapor as it warms, there is nothing to say that it must.

Suppose there were a water-vapor feedback anything like as large as that which the models have assumed (and they have assumed a very large feedback only because they are trying to explain the large but fictitious feedback fraction consequent upon their erroneous assumption that emission temperature of 255 K somehow induces no feedback response at all, while the next 8 K of warming magically induces a 24 K feedback response). In that event, atmospheric dynamics requires that there must be a tropical mid-troposphere “hot spot” [I had the honor to name it], where the warming rate should be twice or thrice that at the tropical surface. However, the “hot spot” is not observed in reality (see below), except in one suspect dataset that Dr Fred Singer scrutinized some years ago and determined to be defective.

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Models predict the tropical mid-troposphere “hot spot” (top, IPCC 2007, citing Santer 2003; above left, Lee et al. 2008; above right, Karl et al., 2006).

However, the “hot spot” is not observed in reality (see below). Our result shows why not. The “hot spot” is an artefact of the modelers’ error in misallocating the substantial feedback response induced by emission temperature by adding it to the very small feedback response induced by the naturally-occurring greenhouse gases.

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The model-predicted “hot spot” is not observed in reality (Karl et al. 2006).

Test 6: Even after we had built and operated our own test rig – as far as we know, this is the first time anyone has tried to test climatological feedback theory empirically rather than simply modeling it – we were not satisfied that anything other than tests performed under rigorous conditions at a government laboratory would be found widely acceptable.

Accordingly, based on the results of our in-house test rig, we drew up a more sophisticated specification for a new rig, together with four test groups comprising 23 sets of three quantities – the input signal, the direct-gain factor and the feedback fraction. Armed with the specification, I commissioned a government laboratory to carry out the experiments.

However, a problem at once arose – indeed, it was a problem with which our own engineer had wrestled. So very small were the feedback responses predicted by long-established control theory that even the presence of the operator in the same room as the test rig tended to bias the results.

Accordingly, I worked for months with a patient and amiable scientist at the government laboratory. Eventually, by somewhat altering the initial-state values specified for the 23 tests, I was able to give the scientist values that would yield results to the required precision but without loss of experimental integrity.

In due course the laboratory reported, and the results of all 23 tests – to within one-tenth of a Kelvin – were exactly as we had been able to predict theoretically. Again, the most important results were for the group of tests in which the direct-gain factor was set to unity, so that we could reassure ourselves that control theory was correct in predicting that, in the presence of a non-zero feedback fraction, even an unamplified input signal would induce a feedback response that would either amplify or attenuate it.

Another snag arose. When I had originally approached the laboratory, I had not mentioned that the research had anything to do with climate change, because all I wanted to do was to establish that we had understood the relevant control theory correctly.

When the laboratory reported, I sent it a copy of our draft paper, in which the lab results were mentioned. The laboratory panicked and said we were not allowed to use its report.

However, I had written into the contract a term to the effect that we intended to include the laboratory’s results, and a discussion of them, in an academic paper. A compromise was reached, by which we are free to include the laboratory’s results in our paper, as long as we do not mention either the name of the laboratory or the name of the scientist there who built and ran the high-specification rig for us.

The laboratory also kindly confirmed that we had represented its results fairly in our paper and had drawn justifiable conclusions from them. Furthermore, much to our pleasure, it promoted the scientist who had assisted us. He wrote us a charming letter to say that he had not allowed, and would not allow, politics to intrude into the work he had carried out for us.

With these results from a national laboratory (we cannot even mention which country it was in) we were at last content that we had established our conclusion with sufficient rigor.

The true picture: How should the 32 K difference between emission temperature and natural temperature be apportioned? Approximately 23.4 K of the 32 K is the feedback response to emission temperature; 8 K is the directly-forced warming from the presence of the natural greenhouse gases; and just 0.7 K is feedback response to that 8 K warming (panel b):

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(a) Erroneous apportionment of the 32 K difference between natural temperature in 1850 and emission temperature in the absence of any greenhouse gases, given in Lacis et al. (2010).

(b) Corrected apportionment of the 32 K, allowing for the feedback response (blue) to emission temperature; the directly-forced warming from the naturally-occurring, non-condensing greenhouse gases (yellow); and the feedback response to that greenhouse warming (red).

Looking at it the other way about, if the feedback fraction were really as large as the 0.75 imagined by Lacis et al. (2010), then the Earth’s emission temperature of 255.4 K would induce a feedback response of 766.2 K, and the 8 K greenhouse warming would induce a feedback response of 24 K, so that the pre-industrial or natural temperature in 1850 would be 255.4 + 766.2 + 8 + 24 ≈ 1054 K, about three and a half times the true value of 287.6 K.

We also considered whether non-linearities in individual feedbacks might vitiate our result. However, to obtain even the 1.5 K minimum Charney sensitivity predicted by IPCC one would need to multiply at least fivefold the empirically-derived industrial-era feefdback fraction f = 0.05.

The reason why even a very large nonlinearity in the feedback sum and consequently in the feedback fraction makes little difference to equilibrium sensitivities is that the curve of equilibrium sensitivities in the presence of various feedback factors is a rectangular hyperbola (see below). Our result shows that the sensitivity calculation is not done, as now, rather close to the singularity at f = 1 (note in passing that for f > 1 Eq. (1) predicts cooling); instead, it is done at the left-hand end of the curve, where the sensitivity increases very slowly with f:

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The rectangular-hyperbolic curve of Charney sensitivities in response to feedback fractions f, showing current predictions compared with the corrected result.

The outcome of the case: What will His Honor make of all this? My guess is that he will allow our amicus brief to be filed. With his engineering background, he will have no difficulty in understanding why we say that the notion of catastrophic rather than moderate global warming is rooted in the elementary physical error we have discovered.

Therefore, we hope His Honor will ask all parties to provide formal responses to our brief. On any view, it plainly raises a serious question about whether global warming matters at all – a question that strikes right to the heart not only of the case before him but of numerous other such cases now arising in several jurisdictions – and showing some evidence of careful co-ordination.

The parties will not be able to dismiss our result lightly. To refute it, they would have to show that our pre-industrial feedback fraction f = 0.08, obtained by theoretical means rooted in mainstream control theory, is incorrect; that our industrial-era value f = 0.05, obtained empirically from IPCC’s estimate of the net anthropogenic forcing to date and from the HadCRUT4 temperature record, is also incorrect; that our campaign of ten empirical calculations giving a mean feedback fraction f = 0.12, is incorrect; that the rate of observed warming over the past 68 years is either incorrect or irrelevant; that the rate of observed warming this century to date is also either incorrect or irrelevant; that the results from our test rig are inapplicable; that the results from a government laboratory are likewise inapplicable; and, above all, that it is justifiable to assume that control theory is wrong and that, per impossibile. 255.4 K of emission temperature generates no feedback at all, while the next 8 K of warming suddenly causes 24 K of feedback, as if by magic.

We do not believe in magic.

Conclusion: The anthropogenic global warming we can now expect will be small, slow, harmless, and even net-beneficial. It is only going to be about 1.2 K this century, or 1.2 K per CO2 doubling. If the parties are not able to demonstrate that we are wrong, and if His Honor accepts that we have proven the result set out publicly and in detail here for the first time, then the global warming scare was indeed based on a strikingly elementary error of physics.

The avowedly alarmist position too hastily adopted by governments and international bureaucratic entities has caused the most egregious misallocation of resources in history.

Ladies and gentlemen, we call time on a 50-year-old scam, in which a small number of corrupt and politicized scientists, paid for by scientifically-illiterate governments panicked by questionable lobby-groups funded by dubious billionaires and foreign governments intent on doing down the West, and egged on by the inept and increasingly totalitarian news media, have conspired to perpetrate a single falsehood: that the science was settled.

Well, it wasn’t.

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scribblerg
March 20, 2018 10:38 am

Lord Monckton’s science may or may not be valid – I cannot say, although I suspect he’s correct. But what I can say with certainty is that this will not make any difference. All of his co-authors have been pilloried and he himself has been destroyed in public.
What he doesn’t get is that the Left is doing rhetoric, not dialectic. He seems to believe that they care about reason or science, or are willing to be bound by it. Nope – we wouldn’t be here at all if that was so. Any sane, serious science would have serious doubts about CAGW – just reading up on it will show many holes. It’s not as though the CAGW crowd cares about whether their models work or not, or whether their predictions make sense. They are solely focused on gaining governmental power to push their anti-capitalist, anti-development, anti-modern agenda. They are maniacs.
As for this judge, oh dear, Lord Monckton is really showing his naivete about the U.S. on that count. This judge is a preening, pseudo-intellectual elitist who believes he’s an expert in everything. But isn’t. And he acts politically all the time, overreaching his constitutional limits regularly. To think he will suddenly go, “Oh gosh, this CAGW stuff is all wrong, let’s forget it.” is to admit a level of naivete one should find embarrassing.
I love the guts and tenacity though. And hey, I hope I’m wrong. But I don’t think so…

Reply to  scribblerg
March 20, 2018 4:13 pm

Scribblerg should understand that, as in the Germany of the 1930s and the Russia of the 1950s, standing against the totalitarians takes courage. Of course they have called us names. Actually, three of my co-authors have endured much harsher treatment than I at the hands of these unspeakable creatures. But the assaults on our personal reputations have not cowed us. We are not going to give in just because the call us names. Flak – Target.
And do not assume that I am naive. I was brought up to speak the truth whether or not powers and dominations, princes and potentates wanted to hear it, and they listen to me because they know I am no yes-man. Do you suppose that any serious observer considers that I or any of my co-authors have been “destroyed in public”? Of course not. Ordinary people are far cleverer than the totalitarians realize: they can smell the hysteria and falsehood behind the totalitarians’ propaganda.
The judge in the present case is now faced with a dilemma. If he accepts our brief and files it, he will have to ask the parties for their responses. They will flee to their go-to totalitarian “scientists”, who will churn out the usual waffle. If he does not accept our brief and then goes ahead and makes a ruling based on the assumption (albeit agreed on both sides in the case) that global warming is a problem that must be addressed, he will know that the Supreme Court will eventually overturn him, and he will lose his reputation for bringing scientific judgment and experience to cases such as this.
Either way, we shall have spoken the truth, and the truth has already been heard by thousands visiting this site, and it is being spread rapidly to other such sites. The only question that really matters is not whether we have been destroyed in public, or whether the judge will liisten, but whether we are right.

Yogi Bear
March 20, 2018 10:45 am

“How should the 32 K difference between emission temperature and natural temperature be apportioned?”
It’s not the atmospheric greenhouse effect that keeps the ocean surface warm at night.

March 20, 2018 11:25 am

As perhaps one of the last comments on this discussion, I might point out (if it hasn’t been already) that Chris Monckton is playing a canny game. He knows full well this site is monitored by the green blob, and this particular article is, as we speak, being scrutinised ahead of the case being heard.
Some say timing is everything, and right now, with scant time before the case, the odious blob will be running round with their hair on fire because someone has stood their ground and done the work to expose the AGW scam.
Sadly, few in the media are willing to change tack and acknowledge the significance of Chris’s findings. But then eating an elephant can only be done one bit at a time.
Other than Christopher Booker, of course, who will be rubbing his hands with glee.

Reply to  HotScot
March 20, 2018 4:04 pm

HotScot is indeed perceptive. Paid trolls for the totalitarian profiteers of doom infest these threads and report back to their paymasters, who will know by now that the entire scam is imminently collapsing. There will be – indeed, already have been – attempts at flanneling misdirection, but those attempts will not succeed, because the error we have discovered can be quite simply explained. The only reason why our argument is presented here at such length is to make sure that the doomsters realize that we have nailed shut all the rat-holes through which they might otherwise have tried to escape.
This is game over.

H2O The Miracle Molecule
March 20, 2018 12:12 pm

I was wondering where you had got to your Lordship and I am delighted to see that you have been busy and productive. I continue to admire your resolve in fighting the forces of darkness and wish you every success. My own empirical evidence that the feedback theory of the alarmists is wrong is simply to look at the temperature response to ENSO. Big spike up followed by a big spike down.
Stay strong

Reply to  H2O The Miracle Molecule
March 20, 2018 4:01 pm

Many thanks to Miracle Molecule for his kind words. But one cannot take a very short-term observation and conclude from that either that global warming is dangerous or that it is not. Using very short-term records to draw improper conclusions is what the thermo-totalitarians do. We should not imitate them.

David Cage
March 20, 2018 12:18 pm

…….In effect, the oil corporations have invited legal actions such as this, wherefore they should pay the cost of their folly in accordance with the ancient legal principle volenti non fit injuria – if you stick your chin out and invite someone to hit it, don’t blub if someone hits it………
This would be true if it was not for the way that climate science claimed it was beyond question so failing to question it was perfectly legitimate. More so still when those who did were told they should be imprisoned based purely on the say so of the scientists as detective, prosecution, jury and judge with no defence allowed as any amateurs were not qualified to judge and non believers could not get grants so were therefore automatically and with no exception always amateur.
What should be obvious to the judge if he has got integrity is the failure of the climate scientists to gather data to even the lowest end commercial product quality standards for something they claim to be so important that the safety of the world depends on it.
To meet the standards of one of the lowest end chain store products the failure to check a significant number of the stations regularly against laboratory standards as well as the working environment used to gather those measurements is a supplier level fail that would bar them from even quoting for business.

Reply to  David Cage
March 20, 2018 4:00 pm

In response to Mr Cage, in truth the oil corporations have sold the pass. They have been unwilling to offend the shrieking totalitarians by telling them their science is junk science. They deserve to be hammered for their costs in this action. And they ought to be, but will not be, grateful to us for having pointed out that their opponents’ case must fail for elementary scientific reasons.

BobG
March 20, 2018 12:21 pm

Sorry, I’m a little late to the thread.
“ferdberple March 19, 2018 at 9:36 pm
Signals have to change in order to be something that can be amplified.
======================
that is not true. One can apply a constant current to a transistor and the transistor will amplify this. The amount of amplification depends on the transistor.
As I recall, 20 was a typical gain for power transistors. So for example, if you run a constant 1 amp current through the base, you will get 20 amps at the emitter.
The problem is the word “forcing”. Climate science uses this to mean the AC portion of the signal. But feedback circuits don’t just amplify the AC. They amplify the DC along with the AC, unless the DC is specifically eliminated with a capacitor.”
In a physical sense, the earth is rotating so the input that creates the 255 K emission temperature is not constant at any one location. Rather, it could be modeled more as a sine wave where during the negative phase, it is dark and there is no amplification. I.e., in the early morning, the warming from the sun is small, at mid-day with the sun directly overhead, the warming is greatest and so on. So, it is not amplifying a constant signal.
The energy that impacts any one location on the earth varies constantly. The 255 K emission temperature is an average of the entire earth.
Similarly, any feedback to the energy from the sun is also local. Thus, it must be applied to the entire signal. Not part of the signal.
Thinking about Monckton of Brenchley’s paper, I think it is correct.
I also would like to commend Monckton’s defense of his paper! Well done.

Reply to  BobG
March 20, 2018 12:48 pm

BobG
Blimey!
I followed that, I think…………Thank you Bob.

March 20, 2018 12:44 pm

I wish I shared your optimism, Lord Monckton. Climate Change, as it is now known, is definitely a political tool, by which the governments of the world have coalesced to form a worldwide hegemony. The science, as we all know, is irrelevant to the actual plan unfolding. The plan is control of the world, its resources, and people.
Personally, I will lay a bet on Judge Alsup agreeing that the science you put forward is sound, but then ignoring it, not allowing it as evidence, or plainly dismissing it within context of the larger considerations.
I don’t think he’ll want to do this either, but that hidden powers (he was elected by the Clintons, remember) will lean on him to find in their interests. We all wait to see how it unfolds.

Reply to  Nicholas Scott
March 20, 2018 3:55 pm

In response to Mr Scott, it is not a matter of optimism, it is a matter of trying one’s best to speak the truth before the lies do any more damage. Absolutely nothing is to be gained by whining on the sidelines. Let the truth be told, and eventually it will be heard.

March 20, 2018 2:56 pm

I agree with Lord Monckton that in a feedback system, any input will affect the output by definition.
It can be shown quickly with an analog simulator (LTSpice) that this is so, and the figures from the head post come out okay.
I feel the problems that some are having (Stokes et al) are with the meaning of the voltages input to the amplifier and the resulting output.
Can an op amp amplify DC? of course. Can a single transistor amplify DC of course, they even call it beta, the current gain.
Perhaps the problem is the sun. The sun powers our climate system, and also sets the general temperature.
So our op amp is powered by a voltage and a voltage drives its input Oh!
Two things very similar, no wonder it could be confusing to some people.
I feel that Lord Monckton was trying to demonstrate that up to now, the idling temperature of the earth had been ignored in terms of its effect upon any temperature rise due to GHG enhancement.
But to *ANY* feedback system, all inputs matter *ALL* the time.
How can such a system ‘start up’? snowball earth and all that?
There is no problem. at time zero, the earth was cold (0k etc)
The earth started to benefit from solar radiation and started to warm up.
Two things now happen
1) the climate system is being powered up (energized) by the sun over millions of years.
2) the radiation landing on the earths surface is warming the surface and adjacent air.
A temperature rise will occur due to the direct effect of the suns rays on the surface *AND* due to the GHG effect.
How can it be any other way?
If the GHG effect exists, it must exist under all circumstances, unless physics has an off switch.

Reply to  Steve Richards
March 20, 2018 3:58 pm

Actually, in the climate one does not need to get into the distinctions between alternating and direct currents. Those are matters peculiar to electronic circuits. We are concerned with the far simpler analysis to be found in ch. 3 of Bode (1945). Any temperature, whether it be emission temperature or the enhancement of it caused by the presence of greenhouse gases in the pre-industrial atmosphere, will induce a feedback response. One cannot,. therefore, assume that there is no feedback response to 255 K of emission temperature, and yet that suddenly, as if by magic, there is a feedback response to the next 8 K of temperature. It is really as simple as that.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 20, 2018 4:56 pm

Lord M,
“One cannot,. therefore, assume that there is no feedback response to 255 K of emission temperature”
OK lets not assume it. Then what is the feedback response? What response of any kind could there be? The 255K is TSI related by Stefan-Boltzmann. Those have been there forever, in climate terms. If there were a “response” to the 255K, how could we distinguish it from the regular state of the world that we observe?

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 20, 2018 6:25 pm

“But, as Lacis et al. (2010) make clear, a temperature that high will require the tropical zone to be ice-free”
“Then the feedback response to emission temperature will be about 23.4 K”
No, Lacis et al did not say that. They modelled the reverse process – what would happen over time if GHGs were removed. They found there was still ice-free tropics after 50 years. But there is no need to speculate on the effect of that. They found (Fig 2) that the average temperature would reduce to about -25°C – 248 K. No sign of 23.4K of wv or albedo feedback there. The reason it is a bit lower is that albedo was not held constant, and increased from about 30 to 40. In fact wv reduced to about 10% of present values.
But none of the scrutinising of what might be the realistic GHG-free steady state makes a radical change to the response to the actual signal – addition or removal of GHG. Whether the GHG-free temperature is 255 or 248K might change the difference from, say, 33 to 40K. But it doesn’t mean you can add 255K to it.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 20, 2018 6:42 pm

“-25°C – 248 K. “
Mis-reading; should be -21°C, or 252 K.

phil salmon
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 21, 2018 12:07 pm

Cheddars
It makes no sense to talk about steady state in the climate. There can be no steady state ever. Any state (temperature) is a starting point for change involving feedback. Monckton’s argument is in reality the insight that the system is nonlinear-chaotic and “steady state” and incremental components cannot be separated. Feedbacks affect them all together.

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 21, 2018 9:03 pm

Phil Salmon has gotten it exactly right. If 8 K of greenhouse-gas warming induces a feedback response, then so does 255.4 K of emission temperature. And, since the emission temperature is so much larger than the small additional temperature arising from the directly-forced greenhouse-gas warming, the feedback response to emission temperature will be a lot larger than the feedback response to the 8 K warming.

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 22, 2018 10:55 am

Monckton of Brenchley March 22, 2018 at 9:05 am
In response to a question from “Phil.”, if one inputs a value 2.55 into a feedback-amplifier with the direct-gain factor mu set to unity and the feedback fraction beta set to 0.1, the output will simply be 2.55 / (1 – 0.1), which is 2.833.

This is not in response to my question, try again?

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 22, 2018 2:03 pm

Monckton sez:
“One cannot, therefore, assume that there is
no feedback response to 255 K of emission temperature,
and yet that suddenly, as if by magic,
there is a feedback response to the next 8 K of temperature.
It is really as simple as that.”
Comment:
That makes perfect sense,
except in modern climate “science”,
anything is possible —
and ‘then a miracle happens’
is quite common:
For example:
(1) Natural climate change
for 4.5 billion years.
(2) 1940
Suddenly aerosols take over
as climate controller
(3) 1975
Suddenly all aerosols instantly
fall out of the air
(4) 1975
Suddenly CO2 takes over
as climate controller
(5) 2000
Suddenly CO2 retires
as climate controller
= flat trend from 2000 to 2015
(6) late 2015 / early 2016
El Nino suddenly
becomes climate controller
(7) 2017
CO2 comes out of retirement,
becomes climate controller again,
maybe?
If so many leftists believe this,
and that IS what they believe,
in simple language,
then why wouldn’t they believe
any wild guess of a coming
climate catastrophe, even with
almost no science supporting
the claim ?

Reply to  Steve Richards
March 21, 2018 8:13 pm

Steve Richards makes an excellent point when he says that in any feedfback system all inputs, specifically including emission temperature, matter all the time. One cannot magically assume that the first 255 K of temperature induces no feedback response, but that the next 8 K suddenly induces one.

AlJo1816
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 22, 2018 6:03 am

This is such a peculiar argument you’re making that I’m struggling greatly to understand where it’s coming from. Is it really quite simply wrong? Or is it so nuanced and profound that I am not grasping it? I suspect it’s the former.
If we took a planet the size of the earth with no atmosphere at 0 K and introduced the sun at the earth-sun distance, that planet would warm until it reached 255 K — the equilibrium temperature. That initial warming to 255 K might induce some feedback responses as the system undergoes change, but if left to sit for some time, the temperature would necessarily equilibrate to 255 K. If you then take that planet after it has reached equilibrium and introduce greenhouse gases, you can no longer say that the original 255 K warming is an input. Feedbacks occur when change is occurring to the energy balance of the system.
You can validly say, “warming the planet from 0 to 255 K would initiate some feedback responses” (Assuming you’ve got some water vapor to make ice etc.). But you cannot validly say, “I’m going to estimate the feedback response to GHGs, so first we need to warm the planet from 0 to 255 K and factor those results in.”

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 22, 2018 6:10 am

The argument you’re making is so peculiar that I’m left questioning whether it really is as simplistically wrong as it seems on the surface or whether it is so nuanced and profound that I’m totally unable to wrap my puny mind around it.
Take an earth-size planet at 0 K and stick it 93 million miles from the sun. It will necessarily warm to 255 K where it will reach thermal equilibrium with incoming sunlight. Along the way, there could arise feedbacks (if there’s some water vapor around to make ice and so forth), but if left for a very long time, the temperature will eventually settle at 255 K no matter what. If you then, after the system has equilibrated, add some GHGs to the atmosphere, you will get warming from those, but you can no longer consider the original change from 0 to 255 K as an input. Feedbacks arise only when change is occurring to the energy balance.

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 22, 2018 9:05 am

In response to a question from “Phil.”, if one inputs a value 2.55 into a feedback-amplifier with the direct-gain factor mu set to unity and the feedback fraction beta set to 0.1, the output will simply be 2.55 / (1 – 0.1), which is 2.833.
I checked the government laboratory’s report and found that we had asked them to do a similar experiment, with the input signal set to 2.554, the direct-gain factor set to unity and the feedback fraction set to 0.115. The output would thus be 2.554 / (1 – 0.115) = 2.886, which is precisely what the test rig delivered.

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 22, 2018 9:10 am

Aljo1816 is simply wrong to state that temperature feedbacks can only arise in the presence of a temperature change. We tested that specific question against the theory that says a temperature feedback is a feedback to any temperature, including the input temperature, by running the experiment on a test rig at a government laboratory. Theory and experiment coincided. I know that this result comes as a surprise to those on both sides of the climate debate, which is why this large error has persisted for so many decades: nevertheless, it is a grave error to imagine that an emission temperature of 255 K will induce no feedback.
Nor is it correct to say that even if feedbacks were present the Earth’s temperature would eventually settle back to 255.4 K, the emission temperature. No, it wouldn’t. As long as the feedbacks are in operation, the temperature will be higher than it would be if there were no feedbacks in operation.

Reply to  Steve Richards
March 22, 2018 6:10 am

Steve Richards March 20, 2018 at 2:56 pm
I agree with Lord Monckton that in a feedback system, any input will affect the output by definition.
It can be shown quickly with an analog simulator (LTSpice) that this is so, and the figures from the head post come out okay.
I feel the problems that some are having (Stokes et al) are with the meaning of the voltages input to the amplifier and the resulting output.
Can an op amp amplify DC? of course. Can a single transistor amplify DC of course, they even call it beta, the current gain.
Perhaps the problem is the sun. The sun powers our climate system, and also sets the general temperature.
So our op amp is powered by a voltage and a voltage drives its input Oh!

Yeah this is the question that Monckton has refused to answer.
Let’s take your Op amp, power it with 2.55V, input 2.55V, set up with a 10% feedback, what will it’s output be?

Reply to  Phil.
March 22, 2018 4:28 pm

It is not clear whether “Phil.” wants me to insert 2.55 V twice over into the circuit by way of an input signal. Let him be more specific about the test that he wants me to run, and why.

March 20, 2018 6:31 pm

Mr Bradley is strikingly ignorant of elementary mathematics and physics. The fundamental equation of radiative transfer is just that, an equation. It has only four terms: the radiative flux density at the emitting surface; the emissivity at that surface (which is usually taken as unity, for little error arises); the Stefan-Boltzmann constant (which, as its name rather suggests, is constant, and is known); and the temperature at that surface. Therefore, if one knows the radiative flux density (which we do because we can measure the insolation and albedo directly and calculate it), one can derive the temperature, and vice versa. That, after all, is how equations work.
It is actually necessary to derive the emission temperature from the flux density by the method I have described, because, owing to the presence of the greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, the emission temperature no longer obtains at the surface, so it cannot be directly measured. We can, however, measure the insolation with satellite-mounted cavitometers, and the albedo by various methods, and we can then derive the emission temperature from those values. All of this is done in our paper, of course.
That, like it or not, is how it is done in paper after paper after paper in the peer-reviewed journals of climatology. Get with the picture!

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 20, 2018 8:32 pm

[SNIP – childish and ugly rant on your part -Anthony]

Jim Masterson
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 20, 2018 11:09 pm

>>
Rob Bradley
March 20, 2018 at 7:56 pm
SB equations are all about emission, not absorption.
<<
Basically Kirchhoff’s law of thermal radiation states:

For an arbitrary body emitting and absorbing thermal radiation in thermodynamic equilibrium, the emissivity is equal to the absorptivity.

Kirchhoff invented the concept of black-bodies, the Stefan-Boltzmann law applies to black-bodies, and black-bodies are excellent emitters and absorbers. In fact, their absorption properties are why they are called black-bodies in the first place.
Jim

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 21, 2018 2:41 am

Mr Bradley, in a continuing and wilful attempt to disrupt this thread with scientific falsehoods, makes the following misstatements:
1. The Stefan-Boltzmann equation “does not work for the surface of Venus”. Actually, it works at any altitude on any planet. However, if one is attempting to derive the emission temperature, which is the temperature at the surface in the absence of greenhouse gases, one cannot expect to find that temperature at the surface either of the Earth or of Venus, because both have greenhouse gases in their atmosphere, which have the effect of raising the altitude at which the emission temperature obtains. Since there is no reliable theoretical method of identifying that altitude and then measuring the temperature there, instead one takes the insolation and albedo, which can be measured, and derives the emission temperature from that.
2. “The SB [equation] works to provide an emission flux for a given temperature. It does not work in reverse.” Of course it does. It’s an equation, for Heaven’s sake. See Hansen, 1981, eq. (2), where the emission temperature of 255 K is derived from the insolation, the albedo and the Stefan-Boltzmann constant, taking emissivity as unity (little error arises thereby). If the Earth’s emission temperature is not 255 K, then what is it?
3. The SB equation “is all about emission, not absorption”. Rubbish. The equation is also known as the fundamental of radiative transfer. Radiative transfer is what it is about. And, by Kirchhoff’s radiation law, absorption and emission are identical and simultaneous.
Try reading an elementary high-school text on algebra to understand what an equation is. Then read an elementary textbook of radiative physics to understand how the fundamental equation of radiative transfer works. And don’t just make stuff up.

Jim Masterson
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 21, 2018 8:22 am

>>
Rob Bradley
March 21, 2018 at 4:06 am
Get an incandescent light bulb and a florescent bulb that both have the same radiation output in lumens. Place both side by side and turn them on. . . . You see, SB fails to give you the temperature of the florescent light, even though it has the same radiative flux as the incandescent.
<<
You’re comparing apples and oranges. Lumens are not radiative flux. Lumens measure the total quantity of visible light emitted by a source. The Stefan-Boltzmann law uses W/m^2, that is, radiative flux–not lumens.
Jim

Jim Masterson
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 21, 2018 11:09 am

>>
Just goes to show you that two different sources of emissions don’t have the same temp.
<<
You lost the argument when you brought in the wrong units.
To use an analogy, Newton’s second law of motion is F = m*a. If I know the mass and the acceleration, I can compute the force. But if I know the force and mass, I can compute the acceleration. And if I know the force and the acceleration, I can compute the mass. I can do a similar thing with the Stefan-Boltzmann law.
There is much that is wrong with this thread. The Stefan-Boltzmann law refers to black-bodies–the Earth is not a black-body. There’s a modification of the Stefan-Boltzmann law that allows it to be used with grey bodies–the Earth is not a grey body. The Earth’s atmosphere is not in thermodynamic equilibrium, so it doesn’t have a temperature–by definition. However, computing temperature using the Stefan-Boltzmann law is not one of the problems.
Jim

phil salmon
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 21, 2018 12:18 pm

Rob Bradley
So 1+1 = 2 might be 2 but we can’t say that 2 = 1+1 ??
Except for the fact that this does not work for the surface of Venus. ..
Then you have falsified SB. Your argument is with Messrs Stefan and Bolzmann, not Christopher Monckton.
All the Climagesterium narrative on Venus is pure garbage, btw. The reason that Venus is hotter than the earth is, believe it or not, that Venus is closer to the sun than the earth. CO2 is as irrelevant on that planet as it is on this.

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 21, 2018 3:24 pm

Rob
Are you averaging the day and night sides of Mercury, which is tidally locked?

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 21, 2018 3:36 pm

OK gravitationally locked with 3:2 resonance.

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 21, 2018 6:21 pm

“childish and ugly rant ”
….
When did posting a video of a person making a claim become “childish?” Ditto for “ugly?”

It is his own words you know.

Don’t like facts?

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 21, 2018 8:19 pm

By way of a further reply to the mathematically challenged Mr Bradley, I have told him to look up Hansen (1981, eq.,2), where the emission temperature is derived as I have derived it. I could give him a dozen similar references. If he wants to take issue with how climatology does things, let him not come to me. Let him go to Dr Hansen and correct him.
Our argument depends on taking variouis quantities for the sake oif argument, but without warranty. In fact, I suspect that the emission temperature is 8 or 10 K higher than the strict SB value, but that is for another day. For the time being, it is necessary only to say that that calue is what climatology universally uses, so, since I do not have a major quarrel with it, I am using it. Don’t blame me for what everyone in climatology does.
And of course you can use an equation in either direction, though care must always be taken to remember which is the dependent and which the independent variable.

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 21, 2018 9:00 pm

Mr Bradley’s contributions are very useful, because they illustrate the depths of despair to which the true-believer sin the new religion have sunk now that they know the new religion is false. I’ve told Mr Bradley to look up Hansen (1981, eq. 2),. If he doesn’t – or, rather, won’t – understand how an equation works, I can recommend numerous kindergartens where he will achieve enlightenment. But no one, not even Mr Bradley, believes for a single instant the nonsense he is uttering here. Now, Mr Bradley, download Hansen (1981) off the web and look at Eq. (2), where Hansen does exactly what Mr Bradley says he must not do. Then don’t take the matter up with me: take it up with Dr Hansen. Tell him he’s wrong. And don’t come back here unless and until you’ve persuaded him to agree. In the meantime, I’m going to use the SB equation in just the same way as everyone else in climatology uses it: that leaves the usual suspects one less thing to argue about when trying to derail our result.

Jim Masterson
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 22, 2018 1:07 am

>>
Rob Bradley
March 21, 2018 at 9:16 pm
You, and everyone else are not using SB properly. No amount of BS from you will change that.
<<
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.
>>
Rob Bradley
March 21, 2018 at 9:20 pm
SB says temperature determines radiative emissions, and trying to determine temperate from radiation is not valid.
<<
The Kirchhoff’s law of thermal radiation says that I can.
>>
Rob Bradley
March 21, 2018 at 9:25 pm
If you have any doubt about this, please see my physical example of incandescent versus florescent light bulbs above.
<<
Your example is wrong. The Stefan-Boltzmann law refers to the total energy radiated by a black-body. The units are watts per square meter. Black-bodies radiate at all frequencies. The Wien displacement law tells us the wavelength that a black-body is emitting its peak radiation.
A lumen refers to the narrow, narrow, narrow, narrow band of visible light. Comparing two objects and saying they are radiating the same number lumens says nothing about the entire rest of the frequency band. The Earth’s average temperature (assuming there is one) would place its peak output at around 10 microns–nowhere near the visible band (390 to 700 nm).
Using Wien’s displacement law for the Sun’s 5,778K temperature gives us about 502 nm–right in the middle of the visible band. Interesting–isn’t it?
Jim

March 20, 2018 6:41 pm

Mr Stokes states that Lacis et al. (2010) did not allow for a feedback response to the emission temperature in the absence of greenhouse gases. They assumed that in the absence of greenhouse gases the albedo would rise from its present 0.293 to 0.418, which would give an emission temperature of 243 K. Yet Mr Stokes says they find the temperature in the absence of greenhouse gases to be 248 K, implying that there is indeed a feedback response to emission temperature – albeit a small one in that particular example, not least owing to the small atmospheric burden of water vapor imagined by Lacis. Yet climatology takes no account of any feedback response to emission temperature.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 20, 2018 6:50 pm

“Yet climatology takes no account of any feedback response to emission temperature.”
Climatology does not rely on any of this snowball earth stuff. It is simply an example to illustrate the effect of GHGs on temperature.
But there is no use citing Lacis here. They actually did the modelling and found that, yes, removing GHGs did drop the temperature by about the amount expected (actually, 36 K). How could that happen? Either GHGs are more effective than we thought, or there is a lot of feedback. Either way, the greenhouse effect is shown to work as advertised.

Richard M
Reply to  Nick Stokes
March 20, 2018 9:22 pm

Or, the modeled it wrong. I’d wager on this option. Nick, your use of circular logic is quite silly.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Nick Stokes
March 20, 2018 9:31 pm

“Nick, your use of circular logic is quite silly.”
It isn’t my use. Lord M is citing Lacis’ GCM study to support his argument.

Richard M
Reply to  Nick Stokes
March 20, 2018 9:34 pm

Nick, he said they got things wrong. Why do you persist in this nonsense?

Peter Langlee
Reply to  Nick Stokes
March 20, 2018 11:17 pm

The model is wrong because it assumes to large feedback. Look at Mars, water vapour in the atmosphere even though the temperature is 218K and there is only ice on the planet, no liquid water. Ice in the fridge sublimates, do you say this won’t work without GHGs? Even a snowball earth would have water vapour in the atmosphere.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Nick Stokes
March 21, 2018 12:29 am

“The model is wrong because it assumes to large feedback.”
GCMs do not assume feedback.

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 21, 2018 2:51 am

Mr Stokes cites Lacis et al. in support of his contention that the Earth’s emission temperature does not induce a feedback response. While it is trivially true that Lacis et al. do not explicitly mention or quantify that response, they describe events in the climate without greenhouse gases that are manifestations of the operation of feedbacks. So let us look at the math in their paper. They assume today’s insolation 1364.625 Watts per square meter but an albedo 0.418 instead of today’s 0.293 (Loeb 2006). In that event, the fundamental equation of radiative transfer would give an emission temperature of 243.3 K. However, the temperature Lacis finds at the surface under the above conditions, and in the absence of any non-condensing greenhouse gases, is 252.2 K. Therefore, almost 9 K of feedback response to emission temperature is derivable from Lacis’ assumptions. That is, of course, less than the 23.4 K we find: but we are using today’s albedo, with ten times as much water vapor in the atmosphere as in Lacis’ example.
The point is that it is very clear from Lacis’ example that emission temperature itself induces a temperature feedback response. Therefore, the 32 K difference between emission temperature and natural temperature as it stood in 1850 is not, as climatology currently assumes, entirely accounted for by forcings from the non-condensing greenhouse gases and by feedback responses generated by the temperature arising from that forcing: it is accounted for also by the substantial feedback response induced by emission temperature itself.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 21, 2018 4:57 am

“it is accounted for also by the substantial feedback response induced by emission temperature itself”
There is no basis for saying that. Lacis et al modelled with GCM the effect of the removal of non-condensable GHGs. They found that after 50 years, a number of things had happened. Albedo rose as Lord M said. Cloud also rose from about 58% to about 75%, and water vapor dropped, not to zero, but to about 1/10 of present level. That remaining wv no doubt still had some warming effect at the surface. It isn’t a feedback from some “emission temperature”; it is just the state that was reached, in response to the forcing, which was the GHG removal.
So the first and overriding point is that the GHE worked as expected. Without non-condensable GHGs the earth was 36°C colder. Now it remains true that the non-condensable GHGs themselves could not have achieved that on their own. Lacis estimate is that they could have achieved together about 1/14, or 9°C. For the rest, they say feedbacks (to the GHG removal forcing) were responsible for water vapour 50% (18°) and cloud 25% (9°) respectively. The degree amounts are my calculation from their percent. And in fact the cloud increase and wv reduction (90%) were produced.
Second, then, it just doesn’t make sense to describe that 90% reduction as 100% due to GHG removal, with a 10% feedback from “emission temperature”. It was just 90% due to GHG forcing.
Lacis’ paper is here. Here is their Fig2 describing the run following the GHG removal:comment image

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 21, 2018 8:55 pm

In response to Mr Stokes, let us do the math on Lacis’ no-greenhouse-gases scenario. They have assumed an albedo 0.418 after the climate has stabilized after removal of the greenhouse gases. That implies an emission temperature 243 K. But they say the temperature they ended up with was 252 K. But there were no greenhouse gases to cause the extra 9 K of warming compared with the emission temperature.
The feedback fraction under their scenario, using the zero-dimensional-model equation, is then 1 – 252 / 87.5, or about 0.12. Not a lot, then. The climate has settled to equilibrium by 50 years after the withdrawal of the greenhouse gases, so one can see just how much difference the feedback response to emission temperature makes when deriving the feedback fraction.
The central question is this: how do the feedback know that they must not respond to the emission temperature but must suddenly respond to the small further temperature forced by the presence of the greenhouse gases?

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 21, 2018 9:10 pm

Lord M,
“They have assumed an albedo 0.418 after the climate has stabilized after removal of the greenhouse gases.”
Thye did not assume it. They ran a model starting from present conditions with non-condensable GHGs suddenly “zeroed out”. They tracked the results for 50 years. During that time albedo rose to 0.418, because of growing ice. And water vapour contracted to 10% of present etc.
That’s why this notion of a feedback result to an “emission temperature” (ET) makes no sense. ET was never there. There is nothing to excite feedback. They just tracked back the evolution of climate after GHG removal. That is the only change made, and responses to that are the only things that can be feedbacks to that change. ET is just a calculation you want to make under some hypotheticals. It isn’t real.
And the feedback effects are in plain sight. You can see wv decreasing, albedo and clouds increasing. Nothing happened to ET to make those changes.

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 22, 2018 4:02 am

In response to Mr Stokes, the model in Lacis et al. assumed that the only feedback in the climate system would be from greenhouse gases and that there would be none from the far larger emission temperature. Even then, in their model removing all non-condensing greenhouse gases, and then running the model for 50 years to equilibrium, they found that there would be a water-belt at the Equator, implying an ice-albedo feedback, and 10% of today’s water vapor in the air, implying a water-vapor feedback. The question arises: feedback to what? The greenhouse gases were removed 50 years back, so there is no greenhouse warming, and the graph of changes in the relevant climate variables shows they have settled to equilibrium in the Lacis model by well before the 50-year mark.
We can actually determine that the feedback of which their description of the no-ghg climate is evidence comes from the emission temperature itself. Taking Lacis’ albedo of 0.418, implying a water-belt Earth, the emission temperature assuming today’s insolation (which was their assumption) is 243.3 K. Yet they report that in their experiment the surface temperature after 50 years without ghgs would have settled to 252 K. The remaining 8.7 K, therefore, is a feedback response to emission temperature, exactly as feedback theory would lead us to expect. However, there is an obvious mismatch between the notion that the emission temperature of 243.3 K induces a feedback response of only 8.7 K, while the 8 K directly-forced warming from the naturally-occurring, non-condensing geenhouse gases induces more like 27.5 K of feedback response.
In the end, the simple question is this. By what mechanism do the feedbacks – such as the surface albedo feedback and the water vapor feedback – know that they should either not induce any feedback response or that, as in Lacis’ model, they should induce a feedback response proportionately far, far smaller than the feedback response to the presence of the greenhouse gases? I put it to you that there is no such mechanism.

March 20, 2018 9:52 pm

Richard Feynman once said that if you do not understand a profound idea well enough to reduce an explanation of it to freshman level, you don’t really understand it. With that standard, I would judge that none of the contributors to this discussion clearly understand the ideas being discussed. A freshman level explanation will also be necessary to convince a judge. Feynman-like diagrams might help.

Reply to  Tom Bjorklund
March 21, 2018 12:42 am

Tom Bjorklund: Richard Feynman once said that if you do not understand a profound idea well enough to reduce an explanation of it to freshman level, you don’t really understand it.
He might have been thinking of the top 10% of the Caltech freshman class. Even so, just because Feynman said it doesn’t make it true.

March 20, 2018 10:59 pm

Youre so cool! I dont suppose Ive read anything like this before. So good to find any individual with some authentic thoughts on this subject. realy thanks for starting this up. this website is something that’s wanted on the net, someone with slightly originality. helpful job for bringing something new to the internet!

Reply to  Chana Marcisak
March 21, 2018 2:04 am

Mr Marcisak is right: Anthony Watts, the diligent proprietor of this forum, has built it into the world’s pre-eminent and most visited climate change website. He and his team of moderators do a superb job of allowing discussions such as this to take place in an atmosphere of freedom. This is one of the very few places on the planet where climate science may be openly debated. Welcome, and visit us daily.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 21, 2018 6:11 am

Mr Marcisak is a spammer

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 21, 2018 5:15 pm

“Mr Marcisak is a spammer”
Of course he is Nick.

Frank
March 21, 2018 2:02 am

Lord Monckton’s brief is incorrect, because he is applying a linear control model to a system that is highly non-linear. His model is based on linear amplification, not fundamental physics.
Consider the increase in radiation emitted by a gray-body model for the Earth: W = eoT^4, where T is 288 and e = 0.61. λ = dW/dT = 4eoT^3 = 3.3 W/m2/K when T = 288 K, but is only 2.3 W/m2/K when T is 255 K and 3.2 W/m2/K when T is 285. When temperature change of a few degK is expected, treating λ = dW/dT as a CONSTANT (a linear system) is a reasonable approximation. When considering the change from no GHGs (255 K) to current levels of GHGs (288 K), it is unambiguously mathematically incorrect to treat λ as a constant.
Lord Monckton calculates the feedback factor from a blackbody-equivalent temperature (255 K) with no GHGs to pre-industrial (287K). For a blackbody model, W = oT^4 and λ = dW/dT = 4oT^3 = 3.8 W/m2/K at/near 255, but 5.3 W/m2/K at/near 287 K and different from the value for λ0 = 3.2 W/m2/K he cites. These are not linear systems for such large temperature changes.
Likewise, the feedback factor f is not a constant that is independent of temperature, but proving that is more challenging that for λ.
Lord Monckton’s uses a “λ0” (Planck feedback) derived from climate models by climate scientists. Those models are composed of materials whose emission varies with the Planck function B(λ,T). That is roughly proportional to T^4 – in other words highly non-linear when considering a temperature change of 255 K to 288 K, but reasonably linear for a few degK around present day temperature.
If Lord Monckton bothers to respond, he will probably say that his linear one-dimensional model is the correct model to apply. However, our climate system is not an electronic amplifier or a designed control system with a fixed λ and f. Under a limited set of circumstances, equations relevant to radiative fluxes in climate can be APPROXIMATED by these equations, but there are serious questions about how far linear approximations are valid for future climate change of even 3-5 K. In fact, λ in climate model output does appear to change as the planet warms. In any case, Lord Monckton will not show you how his one-dimensional model can be derived from fundamental principles of physics so that you can see the non-linearity for yourself.

Frank
Reply to  Frank
March 21, 2018 2:16 am

The errors in Lord Monckton’s court submission show exactly why NO ONE IN THEIR RIGHT MIND should want scientific issues decided in a courtroom. No judge, even one with an engineering undergraduate degree can possibly properly evaluate whether he ought to believe Lord Monckton’s inappropriate one dimensional model or the output from a climate model. Lord Monckton uses Planck feedback calculated by a climate model. He relies on other models for his values of 3.5 W/m2 of forcing from doubled CO2. Why shouldn’t a judge simply believe the climate model – and the opinions of professional climate scientists who derived those values. Going to court is a LOOSING STRATEGY for climate skeptics.
We are already stuck with one Supreme Court decision stating that CO2 fits the definition of a pollutant in the Clean Air Act. And we have the still surviving Chevron decision (by Scalia, no less) that says that the courts must give deference to the (unelected) bureaucrats in the EPA. Mann’s lawsuit against Steyn is still going on after 5? years. Idiocy.

Reply to  Frank
March 21, 2018 10:58 am

Frank: We are already stuck with one Supreme Court decision stating that CO2 fits the definition of a pollutant in the Clean Air Act. And we have the still surviving Chevron decision (by Scalia, no less) that says that the courts must give deference to the (unelected) bureaucrats in the EPA.
NO and NO. In both cases the Supreme Court ruled that EPA had acted in accordance with the laws (passed by Congress and signed by presidents, as provided in the Constitution) authorizing EPA to make those decisions. The CO2 ruling has since been repealed by Congress acting according to the Congressional Review Act; it can’t be reinstated without a supporting vote by Congress..

Frank
Reply to  Frank
March 22, 2018 11:34 am

matthewrmarler: Text showing that the Supreme Court declared CO2 a pollutant and that the EPA must regulate it. The EPA under Bush had declined to regulate CO2 and that decision was tested in the Supreme Court. Congress can’t repeal a Supreme Court decisions. The EPA MUST REGULATE CO2 as a pollutant under the rules of the CCA. Period.
Now we are arguing about those rules and the process by which they are made. The Supreme Court recently (2015) ruled (5-4) that the EPA’s unreasonably interpret the Clean Air Act when it issued regulations for its Clean Power Plan without first considering the costs involved. In other words, we were 1 justice away from saying that the EPA can regulate GHGs without considering cost. However, that rule was in effect for three years and the Power industry had to undertake changes to comply with the Clean Power Plan while the rule was in effect – which means the rule impacts the facilities that exist today.
Under Obama, the EPA rushed out another set of rules whose implementation has been blocked by Congress. However, Congressional Review Authority is only useful in a few cases during the first 60 days of a new administration, because the President can – and will veto – usually successfully Congress’s attempts to overturn the regulations issued by HIS administration. New Presidents may allow Congress to overturn a regulation issued by an old administration.
Whatever new rules the Trump EPA issues will be subject to litigation for years. The power industry needs to invest allowing for a worst case regulatory outcome.
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/549/497.html
MASSACHUSETTS ET AL. v. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
3. Because greenhouse gases fit well within the Act’s capacious definition of “air pollutant,” EPA has statutory authority to regulate emission of such gases from new motor vehicles. That definition–which includes “any air pollution agent … , including any physical, chemical, … substance … emitted into … the ambient air … ,” §7602(g) (emphasis added)–embraces all airborne compounds of whatever stripe. Moreover, carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases are undoubtedly “physical [and] chemical … substance[s].” Ibid. EPA’s reliance on postenactment congressional actions and deliberations it views as tantamount to a command to refrain from regulating greenhouse gas emissions is unavailing. Even if postenactment legislative history could shed light on the meaning of an otherwise-unambiguous statute, EPA identifies nothing suggesting that Congress meant to curtail EPA’s power to treat greenhouse gases as air pollutants. The Court has no difficulty reconciling Congress’ various efforts to promote interagency collaboration and research to better understand climate change with the agency’s pre-existing mandate to regulate “any air pollutant” that may endanger the public welfare. FDA v. Brown & Williamson Tobacco Corp., 529 U. S. 120, 133, distinguished. Also unpersuasive is EPA’s argument that its regulation of motor-vehicle carbon dioxide emissions would require it to tighten mileage standards, a job (according to EPA) that Congress has assigned to the Department of Transportation. The fact that DOT’s mandate to promote energy efficiency by setting mileage standards may overlap with EPA’s environmental responsibilities in no way licenses EPA to shirk its duty to protect the public “health” and “welfare,” §7521(a)(1). Pp. 25-30.
4. EPA’s alternative basis for its decision–that even if it has statutory authority to regulate greenhouse gases, it would be unwise to do so at this time–rests on reasoning divorced from the statutory text. While the statute conditions EPA action on its formation of a “judgment,” that judgment must relate to whether an air pollutant “cause[s], or contribute[s] to, air pollution which may reasonably be anticipated to endanger public health or welfare.” §7601(a)(1). Under the Act’s clear terms, EPA can avoid promulgating regulations only if it determines that greenhouse gases do not contribute to climate change or if it provides some reasonable explanation as to why it cannot or will not exercise its discretion to determine whether they do. It has refused to do so, offering instead a laundry list of reasons not to regulate, including the existence of voluntary Executive Branch programs providing a response to global warming and impairment of the President’s ability to negotiate with developing nations to reduce emissions. These policy judgments have nothing to do with whether greenhouse gas emissions contribute to climate change and do not amount to a reasoned justification for declining to form a scientific judgment. Nor can EPA avoid its statutory obligation by noting the uncertainty surrounding various features of climate change and concluding that it would therefore be better not to regulate at this time. If the scientific uncertainty is so profound that it precludes EPA from making a reasoned judgment, it must say so. The statutory question is whether sufficient information exists for it to make an endangerment finding. Instead, EPA rejected the rulemaking petition based on impermissible considerations. Its action was therefore “arbitrary, capricious, or otherwise not in accordance with law,” §7607(d)(9). On remand, EPA must ground its reasons for action or inaction in the statute. Pp. 30-32.

Reply to  Frank
March 21, 2018 2:18 am

Frank’s comment is an exercise in wilful misdirection. The value 255.4 K for the Earth’s surface temperature in the absence of greenhouse gases or of feedbacks is not derived by reference to the Planck parameter, but solely by reference to insolation and albedo. The head posting makes it clear that lambda-zero, which Roe (2009) says should best be expressed in Kelvin per Watt per square meter because it is part of the reference frame for deriving equilibrium sensitivity, which has a squared dependence upon it, is here treated as constant only in the industrial era, where only a few Kelvin of temperature change obtain. Our argument simply does not use it for the pre-industrial era because, by the nature of the argument, we had no need to use it.
Frank should also read the head posting before commenting. He should understand that we have allowed for nonlinearity in the feedback sum in a number of ways, and that we calibrated the official CMIP5 interval of Charney sensitivities by informing the explicitly linear zero-dimensional model with official input parameters as given in Vial (2013), on which paper IPCC itself relied, and we were able to show that the equation, linear though it be, faithfully reproduces the official interval.
Nonlinearities in feedbacks were allowed for as follows: First, we derived the pre-industrial value of the feedback fraction by a theoretical method, and the industrial-era value by an empirical method. The two values, 0.08 and 0.05, are quite close to one another. This coherence suggests that nonlinearities in individual feedbacks, notably the water vapor feedback (owing to the Clausius-Clapeyron relation) are not as great in practice as in theory. One reason for this is that the atmosphere is not purely radiative but radiative-convective: one must make due allowance for the non-radiative transports. Another reason is that Clausius-Clapeyron does not say that the space occupied by the atmosphere MUST hold near-exponentially more water vapor as it warms: only that it MAY. In fact, it doesn’t,m which is why Jim Hansen, having attempted for some years to measure the imagined increase in the atmospheric burden of water vapor, abandoned the project as far back as 2009. Do try to keep up.
It should also be self-evident that if the feedback fraction is very small any reasonably foreseeable nonlinearities will not make much difference.

Frank
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 21, 2018 9:19 am

Lord Monckton writes: “He should understand that we have allowed for nonlinearity in the feedback sum in a number of ways, and that we calibrated the official CMIP5 interval of Charney sensitivities by informing the explicitly linear zero-dimensional model with official input parameters as given in Vial (2013), on which paper IPCC itself relied, and we were able to show that the equation, linear though it be, faithfully reproduces the official interval.’
This is wrong. The equations being used in this post assume that λ0, λ1 and f (= -λ1/λ0) are linear. Emission is distinctly nonlinear over a range of more than a few K. And you know it. And these parameters represent emission: λ = dW/dT. Wrong model – wrong answer.
Monckton wrote: “First, we derived the pre-industrial value of the feedback fraction by a theoretical method, and the industrial-era value by an empirical method. The two values, 0.08 and 0.05, are quite close to one another.”
Yes, but the second value was derived using the [wrong] pre-industrial value.
Using values from the industrial era, responsible skeptics like Curry and Lewis calculate λ of -2 to -2.5 (using the correct sign) and even IPCC scientists agree with this interpretation. If one uses these values and λ0 of -3.2 W/m2, λ1 is +0.7 to +1.2 W/m2 and f is 0.22-0.38, amplification less than two. These values will shrink if the estimated forcing from aerosols continues to shrink in magnitude, as is currently happening as evidence accumulates that the aerosol indirect effect is much less than used in models. There is a responsible case for low climate sensitivity that can be published in scientific journals after by peer review by competent climate scientists. Your nonsense doesn’t help the cause.

phil salmon
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 21, 2018 12:27 pm

Monckton’s article has forced some warmists (painful though it must be for them) to actually say the word “nonlinear”. That at least is progress of a sort. Would they be able to go still further from their comfort zone and say “chaos”?

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 21, 2018 8:48 pm

Frank does not appear to understand the concept of calibration. We took the official inputs to the zero-dimensional-model equation, plugged them in and obtained precisely the same interval of Charney sensitivities as the official estimates, even though the ZDM is linear (though its output isn’t). At very small feedback fractions, nonlinearities don’t matter a lot unless they’re huge, and there’s no evidence they;re huge.

Frank
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 22, 2018 12:16 pm

Lord Monckton writes: “Frank does not appear to understand the concept of calibration.”
And he accuses me of deception! Lord Monckton know full well that if his model is “calibrated” over the industrial era with warming small enough that a linear approximation applies, that f is about 0.4 based on the results of a various studies (EBMs) that find that ECS is 1.5-2. Only when temperature change large enough to invalidate the assumption of linearity (32K) does he obtain obtain much smaller values for f and ECS.
If you don’t believe me, read Roy Spenser: http://www.drroyspencer.com/2018/03/climate-f-words/
“For those who don’t know, Lord Monckton is a pretty talented mathematician. However, like others I have encountered over the years, I believe he errs in his ASSUMPTIONS about how the climate research community uses — and does or does not depend upon — the concept of feedback in climate modeling.”

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 22, 2018 4:25 pm

Frank prays Dr Spencer in aid, citing a passage in which Dr Spencer says I do not use feedbacks as climatology uses them. That fact should be entirely evident to all from the head posting, because climatology has made a mistake. The mistake is to assume that a temperature feedback arises from a forcing when, by definition, it arises from a temperature – any temperature that is present, including the emission temperature (which is the input signal in the climate).
One can confirm that this is the case by reading ch 3 of Bode (1945).

Frank
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 23, 2018 10:58 am

Lord Monckton writes: “The mistake is to assume that a temperature feedback arises from a forcing when, by definition, it arises from a temperature – any temperature that is present, including the emission temperature (which is the input signal in the climate). One can confirm that this is the case by reading ch 3 of Bode (1945).
Feedback does not arise from forcing. Nor does feedback arise from temperature itself. It arises from temperature CHANGE, it is a derivative: dW/dTs. With units of W/m2/K, where the dW is the change in net TOA flux. Like all derivatives, except those of linear equations, it is not a constant. However, like all derivatives, we can approximate it as a constant over an appropriately narrow range.
The Earth is not an amplifier. The answers aren’t found in Bode (1945) unless you derive from fundamental physics equations analogous to Bode’s. Then you need to look at the approximations and assumptions you made in the process of your derivation and see if they are appropriate. They won’t be at 255 K.

Frank
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 23, 2018 11:39 am

Cedder wrote: “I’m not at this point sure water-vapour feedback response changes the way Frank suggests.”
I just used the change in saturation vapor pressure (7%/K near 288) to ILLUSTRATE the POTENTIALLY large changes in water vapor (and consequently lapse rate and clouds and snowfall and consequently surface albedo) that Lord Monckton is ignoring when he assumes f and lambda_0 are constants. I can’t calculate these consequences from first principles. Saturation vapor pressure is an equilibrium concept and the fact that relative humidity is not 100% means that assumptions based equilibrium are incorrect.

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 24, 2018 10:20 am

“Ceddars” if you are going to continue to insult Mr. Monckton, please use your full name “Cedric Knight”

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 24, 2018 11:02 am

Rob, I run a server farm, and my own email server. I’m well aware of the message and what it means.
I also tested using multiple email verifiers and checked each twice.
His email is not a working email and does not accept incoming messages. It his fault not mine. Thus I’m unable to email him and say “tone it down”. Thus he violates WUWT policy on two issues.

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 24, 2018 11:25 am

Oh I used three different ones, they all fail. Sorry if you don’t like how I run things. Get your own website then. Checking your email shows it to be good, or would you care to dispute that?

Reply to  Anthony Watts
March 24, 2018 11:33 am

And this response comes no matter how many times I try:
4.7.1 : Client host rejected: Service unavailable; Greylisted new: (0, 0 secs)
When it says “client host rejected” and “Service unavailable” that’s all I need to see. The greylisting is moot.

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 24, 2018 11:29 am

No, what I need to see is a working email address. This one doesn’t under any circumstances.

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 24, 2018 12:05 pm

It works now.
OK then, tone it down. Insulting Monckton to make your points is not ok.

March 21, 2018 3:26 am

Lord Monckton,
I’m really impressed by your work and paper.
But I think the discussion implicitly assumes that all warming comes from greenhouse gases + feedbacks, especially when comparing to HadCRUT and UAH. It’s the same with papers deriving the CO2 sensitivity by comparing OHC and temperatures (e.g. Lewis&Curry 2014, 2016).
But what about long-term impacts like Eddy? I can’t believe that the whole temperature rise from LIA comes from greenhouse gases.
So the derived Charney sensitivity may be an upper limit. The real sensitivity may be (much) lower.
What do you think about it?

Reply to  wernerkohl
March 21, 2018 8:46 pm

Mr Kohl is correct. The Charney sensitivity we have derived may well be an upper bound, for various reasons, not the least of which is that we have assumed that all warming since 1850 was anthropogenic. Actually we don;t know whether that’s true and, contrary to assertions by IPCC, we have no means of knowing whether it’s true.

Frank
March 21, 2018 3:28 am

The physics of climate sensitivity is often summarized by dW = λ*dT (or dW/dT = λ), which says that the “radiation emitted” by the Earth increases linearly with an increase in temperature. Emission of radiation doesn’t vary linearly with temperature, except over a very narrow range of temperature. (see earlier comment on black- and gray-body models.) In this case, the “radiation emitted” (W) by the earth includes the net sum of LWR emitted across the TOA and SWR reflected back to space (OLR+OSR). If reduced solar activity or increasing GHGs change the radiative balance across the TOA (producing a forcing), the planet’s temperature will gradually change until that radiative imbalance has been eliminated. That is merely the law of conservation of energy in action.
So where does Monckton’s λ0 – Planck feedback – come from. It comes from some model for the Earth, a blackbody model or a gray-body model or an AOGCM – all of which are asked to calculate dW/dT for a small change in T assuming nothing else changes about our planet. However, our planet will change with warming: absolute humidity will likely rise, changing clouds, the altitude (and therefore temperature) the average photon escaping to space is emitted, changing the lapse rate, and changing seasonal snow cover and sea ice cover. Climate scientists – in their hubris – think their models change accurately calculate all of these changes they call feedback and Lord Monckton is using their one dimensional model
dW = λ*dT = (λ0 + λ1)*dT = λ0*dT + λ1*dT
where increased radiation to space (dW) is caused by Planck feedback (λ0*dT) and the sum of other feedbacks (λ1*dT).
dT0 = dW/λ0
dT0 is normally called the no-feedbacks climate sensitivity, but is called the reference temperature change dTref herein. dT0 has no reality, it come from an ARTIFICIAL model world where the only thing that changes when temperature changes is radiation.
dT = dW/(λ0+λ1*) = dW/[λ0*(1+λ1/λ0)] = [dW/λ0]*[1/(1+λ1/λ0}] = dT0/[1-f)
f = -λ1/λ0
This is where Lord Monckton’s feedback fraction (f) arrives. For technical reasons, Planck feedback is negative and the sum of all other feedbacks is commonly assumed to be positive (it doesn’t have to be if cloud feedback is highly negative), making f usually positive.
Since λ1 and λ0 are not constant over wide temperature ranges, then f is NOT CONSTANT either. Lord Monckton is simply applying linear equations to a system that doesn’t behave linearly except with changes in temperature of only a few degK.
Monckton wrote:
“The error: However, climatologists had made the grave error of not realizing that emission temperature TE (= 255 K) itself induces a substantial feedback. To correct that long-standing error, we illustratively assumed that the feedback fractions f in response to TE and to ΔTB were identical. Then we derived f simply by replacing the delta values ΔTref, ΔTeq in (2) with the underlying entire quantities Tref, Teq, setting Tref = TE + ΔTB, and Teq = TN (Eq. 4),
f = 1 –Tref / Teq = 1 – (TE + ΔTB) / TN
= 1 – (255.4 + 8) / 287.6 = 0.08. (4)
Contrast this true pre-industrial value f = 0.08 with the CMIP5 models’ current mid-range estimate f = 1 – 1.1 / 3.3 = 0.67 (Eq. 2), and with the f = 0.75 applied by Lacis et al. (2010) not only to the 32 K “entire natural greenhouse effect” but also to “current climate”.
All of this mathematics ASSUMES that f remains constant from 255 to 288 K. We know that λ0 does not. λ1 depends on the change in humidity and clouds and lapse rate and surface albedo with Ts. The idea that λ1 is constant over a wide range of temperature is absurd. The final result is absurd. Our planet at 255 K would be absurdly different from today. The system is not linear over this temperature range.

Reply to  Frank
March 21, 2018 3:56 am

In reply to Frank, of course the climate system is not linear. We modeled three scenarios: a snowball earth with albedo 0.6 (Pierrehumbert 2011); a waterbelt Earth with albedo 0.418 (Lacis 2010) and an Earth with today’s albedo 0.293. The conclusion of this experiment was that the feedback fraction is likely to have fallen as the vast ice sheets melted.
Frank has also misunderstood the experiment in which one takes today’s albedo 0.293 (Loeb 2006) and derives from it the emission temperature of 255.4 K that would have obtained at the Earth’s surface in 1850 if there were no greenhouse gases. The value of the Planck parameter is irrelevant to the derivation of the 255.4 K emission temperature. One is simply comparing two cases, as matters stood in 1850. First, the atmosphere without greenhouse gases. Secondly, the atmosphere with the naturally-occurring, non-condensing greenhouse gases. In the latter case, we know what the equilibrium temperature is. It is 287.6 K or thereby. From that, the impossible maximum feedback fraction is 1 – 255.4 / 287.6, or 0.11. Allowing for about 8 K of directly-forced warming from the presence of the naturally-occurring, non-condensing greenhouse gases, that comes down to 1 – (255.4 + 8) / 287.6, or 0.08. This is an order of magnitude lower than existing estimates, because there is a large feedback response to emission temperature itself.

Frank
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 21, 2018 8:17 am

Lord Monckton replies: “From that, the impossible maximum feedback fraction is 1 – 255.4 / 287.6, or 0.11.
Which repeats Lord Montock’s mistake: Using an equation that assuming that the key parameters are LINEAR between 255 and 288K. This assumption is wrong for λ0, λ1, and their ratio, -f.
If Lacis (whose model of the Earth without CO2 is certainly wrong) had bothered to calculate λ0, λ1, and -f as the Earth cooled in response to the elimination of CO2, he would have reported these values changing. The emission of radiation in the real world or according to any model is not linear with temperature in ANY model from 255 K to 288 K – except the model Lord Monckton is using. That model is unambiguously wrong.

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 21, 2018 8:44 pm

Given that an emission temperature will induce a feedback response, how would Frank allocate the 32 K difference between pre-industrial temperature in 1850 and emission temperature in the same year but without greenhouse gases? And why?

Frank
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 22, 2018 1:23 pm

Lord Monckton writes: “Given that an emission temperature will induce a feedback response, how would Frank allocate the 32 K difference between pre-industrial temperature in 1850 and emission temperature in the same year but without greenhouse gases? And why?
There is no feedback associated with ONE particular temperature. There are feedbacks associated with temperature change. They are all reported in units of W/m2/K. There is one overall “climate feedback parameter” (λ) for the whole planet. λ*dT = dW and dT = dW/λ where dW is the forcing induced radiative imbalance that will be eliminated by a temperature change dT once steady-state is reached. Roy Spenser’s comment on this post says we should just focus on λ and not worry about the concept of amplification – and he is correct.
However, some break λ up into components λ0 for Planck feedback alone and λ1 for the sum of all other feedbacks. In other words, some warming is cause by Planck feedback and some warming is caused by other feedbacks. The additional warming is can be mathematically expressed “amplification” of the warming produced by Planck feedback alone. So what. Warming is warming. Roy is right.
Mathematically, f = -λ1/λ0. λ1 and λ0 VARY with temperature and can be treated as constants ONLY over a few degC of temperature change. There ratio, f, varies even more quickly with temperature. When Lord Monckton allocates 32K of temperature difference, he is using equations that assume λ0 and f are constants. They vary.
Let’s run Monckton’s thought experiment in reverse. At 288 K, λ0 = -3.2 W/m2/K if you use AOGCMs or -3.3 W/m2/K if you use a graybody model at T = 288 and e = 0.61. (λ1 is about +0.7 to +1.2 if you believe energy balance models.) Let’s slowly remove all of the GHGs from the atmosphere except water vapor and watch the planet cool. We will do this slowly, so temperature be near equilibrium along the way. At 283 K (roughly conditions during the last ice age), λ0 is down to -3.1 W/m2 (according to a graybody model). What has happened to λ1, the sum of WV, LR, cloud and surface albedo feedbacks. Well, surface albedo has obviously increased dramatically. Saturation vapor pressure decreases about 7% per degK, so there is approximately 35% less water vapor in the atmosphere, which changes the lapse rate. What happens to clouds cover and altitude? No one knows what the sum of all other feedbacks (λ1) will be under conditions similar to the LGM, but Monckton’s calculations assume λ1 is constant. Now, imagine five more cooling steps of 5 K as the planet cools below the LGM – with changes that are as radical as those between today and the LGM. λ0 is down to -2.3 W/m2/K according to a gray-body model. And what is λ1, the sum of all other feedbacks????? No calculations assuming that f and λ0 are constant over 32K have any meaning.

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 22, 2018 4:20 pm

Frank continues to be mystified by what is really very simple. The correct method of deriving the feedback fraction is to consider the state of the climate with and without greenhouse gases, on the assumption that the albedo is held fixed. Thus, at the albedo of about 0.3 that prevailed in 1850, the emission temperature was, as it is today, about 255 K. But the measured temperatue in 1850 was 287 K. Some 8 K of the difference is attributable to the directly-forced warming from the presence of the non-condensing greenhouse gases. Thus, the temperature to which the feedback response arises is about 263 K. Then the feedback fraction, which can be derived entirely without reference to the Planck parameter, is simply 1 – 263 / 287, or 0.084, and not the 1 – 8 / 32 = 0.75 imagined, for instance,m in Lacis 2010, or the 1 – 1.1 / 3.3 = 0.67 imagined in the CMIP5 model ensemble.
The central point, which swamps any mere considerations of nonlinearity, is that a temperature feedback response respondes to a temperature, and it has no way of deciding that it will not respond to emission temperature of 255 K but will suddenly wake up and respond only to the next 8 K of temperature. .

March 21, 2018 4:10 am

It would be great if someone could page rgbatduke at this point.
Also maybe Lindzen and Salby? And was Dr Fred Singer involved in this work with Monkton?

Roger Knights
Reply to  ThinkingScientist
March 21, 2018 5:57 pm

“It would be great if someone could page rgbatduke at this point.”
Seconded.

DR
March 21, 2018 6:22 am

This is a key item in the OP, but it can’t be overemphasized.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/04/02/why-john-christies-missing-hotspot-matters/

Frank
Reply to  DR
March 21, 2018 8:37 am

The absence of a hotspot (if correct) tells us that something is wrong with AOGCMs. Some researchers are experimenting with AOGCMs with slight different parameters that predict a more modest hotspot than today’s models. In some cases, ECS is lower. However, there is no direct link between ECS and the strength of the hotspot. We can NOT be sure which direction ECS will shift and how much in a more appropriate model.
The simplest factor to think about is lapse rate. Increasing humidity means a lower lapse rate and more warming high in the atmosphere than at the surface. The change in lapse rate means more radiative cooling to space per degK rise in Ts (negative feedback) than a constant lapse rate – and a lower ECS. So less change in lapse rate would imply that ECS will become higher, not lower. In reality, ECS is an emergent property of the entire model, and not just lapse rate/hot spot.

Reply to  Frank
March 22, 2018 4:10 pm

The reason why theer is a direct link between the hot spot and the magnitude of the water vapor feedback is that, at all altitudes below the mid-troposphere, the absorption bands of water vapor are largely saturated. It is only in the drier upper air that a major warming effect would arise from an increased atmospheric burden of water vapor. However, the hot spot that was predicted is absent, but IPCC and other authorities have failed to reduce commensurately the value of the water vapor feedback and consequently of final sensitivity.
The present result provides, for the first time, a credible explanation of why the much-predicted “hot spot” that theory would otherwise have predicted does not in reality exist.

Frank
Reply to  Frank
March 23, 2018 11:30 am

Monckton wrote: “However, the hot spot that was predicted is absent, but IPCC and other authorities have failed to reduce commensurately the value of the water vapor feedback and consequently of final sensitivity.”
When the upper atmosphere warms more than the surface, the planet emits more radiation to space per degC of rise in Ts than it would with a constant lapse rate. Lapse rate feedback is negative. So the absence of a hot spot ALONE means a higher ECS.
If the hot spot is missing because there are fewer water molecules present in the hot spot, then absorption and emission of radiation in this region will be different from what AOGCMs expected. The radiative forcing for GHGs depends on the temperature gradient where they are located. (More GHGs in the stratosphere cool the planet. There is no GHE in Antarctica because there is no temperature gradient there.)
The consequences of a missing hot spot are complicated. More importantly, the missing hot spot implies that phenomena taking place below the hot spot must be wrong too. Until someone comes up with a model that lacks a hot spot, we don’t know what effect it will have. All we know for sure is that AOGCMs are wrong in this location. Assuming the hot spot is really missing. There is now no doubt that it is missing in our raw data. However, we already have enough trouble tracking changes in surface temperature. Warming in the hot spot is amplified about 2X compared with the surface. How much as the surface warmed. The hot spot is missing because that much warming in the upper troposphere is missing. Keep an open mind.

Reply to  Frank
March 24, 2018 11:50 am

In the opinion of Professor Fred Singer, who first drew my attention to the missing hot spot, its absence reduces climate sensitivity because, if the tropical surface warming is delta-T and the mid-troposphere warming is between 2 delta-T and 3 delta-T, then the warming of the tropical atmospheric column will be greater than if the mid-troposphere warming is only delta-T, matching the warming at the surface.
Our result, indicating that the feedback fraction has been overstated by an order of magnitude, provides for the first time an explanation of why the predicted tropical mid-troposphere hot spot is not present in any but a single dataset that Fred Singer, who has studied it and written papers on it, finds to be defective.
Interestingly, I once sat at Professor Lindzen’s feet and listened to him on the hot spot. He said that it was more likely that the mid-troposphere temperatures in the tropics had been measured accurately than that the surface temperatures had been, owing to the scarcity of tropical surface stations and the absence of strong latitudinal temperature gradients in the tropical mid-troposphere. this conversation was some years ago, so I hope I have not misrepresented that great man.

Reply to  DR
March 25, 2018 10:24 am

Source?

Chimp
Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 25, 2018 10:40 am

Sherwood and Nishant, 2015.
http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/10/5/054007/meta
The graph is from homogenized data and models. Even so, the authors find that:
“Second, as shown in previous studies, tropospheric warming does not reach quite as high in the tropics and subtropics as predicted in typical models. Third, cooling has slackened in the stratosphere such that linear trends since 1979 are about half as strong as reported earlier for shorter periods.”
As readers may know, models predict warming troposphere and cooling stratosphere under increased CO2. Yet observations since 1979 show the air warmed more slowly and less than the surface, just the opposite of predictions.

March 21, 2018 7:17 am

It is fun to read all the back and forth. But, here is the crux in a nutshell.
1) The atmosphere has existed with the current organization for a long time, say 1 million years. That is, it has contained water vapor and CO2, the primary greenhouse gases throughout.
2) It is logical to assume that any feedback (or even forcings) operate the same preindustrial as postindustrial.
3) Therefore one must conclude that these greenhouse gases contributed similar values to temperature both before and after the “industrial” period.
CMoB has done this and shown that the values are consistent.
To disprove this, one must assume for example, that CO2 has a massive effect on the amount of water vapor but you must also make the effect consistent for both pre and post industrial or else explain what changed to cause a discontinuity. I suspect when you make the effect similar you will end up similar values as CMoB has.

Frank
Reply to  Jim Gorman
March 21, 2018 8:49 am

Jim wrote: “1) The atmosphere has existed with the current organization for a long time, say 1 million years.”
CO2 has an effect on temperature and temperature as an impact on water vapor. Neither of these are linear over more than a few degK.
The atmosphere has not existed with the current organization for a million years. It was in glacial periods (with little change in forcing) and far drier than today. With so much ice on land that sea level was 120 lower than today. England and Ireland were connected to Europe, the Americas to Asia and Australia nearly connected to Asia.
And Lord Monckton is doing calculations on an Earth without GHGs that is 6 times colder using a linear model that doesn’t explain the ice ages. Ludicrous.

BobG
Reply to  Frank
March 21, 2018 12:12 pm

“The atmosphere has not existed with the current organization for a million years. It was in glacial periods (with little change in forcing) and far drier than today.”
The Milankovitch Cycles have a large impact on forcing. Here is a blog on this: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/10/26/claim-why-ice-ages-occur-every-100000-years/
Basically, if Earth gets cold enough that the ice sheets start to grow and the Milankovitch cycles don’t support conditions that will cause the newly growing ice sheets to reverse – then an ice age will occur. Were the oceans warmer, then this would change things as seen in the blog above. Which I think is the leading hypothesis of the cause of ice ages at 100,000 year intervals.
How does feedback work in current conditions of the earth and conditions that the earth is likely to have? The earth’s atmosphere’s temperature is dependent on physical properties of the atmosphere. One of the properties is feedback.
Monckton writes in his paper: “The error: However, climatologists had made the grave error of not realizing that emission temperature TE (= 255.4 K) itself induces a substantial feedback. ” Having dealt with feedback in electronics, this point seemed self evidently true. See Monckton’s test 5.
Looking at it a different way – the generally accepted view is that without greenhouse gases, the earth would be 255.4 degree C. Or it would be about -18 C.
Monckton wrote above:” The difference of 32 K between natural temperature TN (= 287.6 K) in 1850 and emission temperature TE (= 255.4 K) without greenhouse gases or temperature feedbacks was hitherto imagined to comprise 8 K (25%) base warming ΔTB directly forced by the naturally-occurring, non-condensing greenhouse gases and a 24 K (75%) feedback response ΔT(B) to ΔTB, implying a pre-industrial feedback fraction f ≈ 24 / 32 = 0.75 (Lacis et al., 2010).”
In other words, in 1850, the temperature was 287.6K. The 1850 temperature is supposed to be the “natural” temperature (TN). The difference between TN (287.6K) and the emissions temperature TE (255.4) is 32.2K.
Some climatologists imagined that from the 32.2K, they could attribute about 25% of this or 8K ( ΔTB ) or change in the Temperature Base to warming caused by natural greenhouse gases like CO2 and methane that was not emitted by mankind. The condensing greenhouse gas is water vapor. The impact of water vapor is not included when calculating the 8K ΔTB of warming from natural greenhouse gases.
The difference between TN (287.6K) and TE (255.4K) is ~32 K. To get from the 8K ΔTB of warming due to natural greenhouse gases to ~32K of total warming, another 24K of warming is needed. That 24K of warming is thought/imagined by some to be a feedback response to the 8K ( ΔTB ) of warming. The feedback is caused mostly by a change in condensing greenhouse gas (water vapor) due to the 8K ( ΔTB ) of warming. Or as it is put by Monckton the feedback response “ΔT(B) to ΔTB”. This means that the feedback fraction of the warming is 75%. The ~24K is 75% of the total temperature change of ~32K. Another way of looking at it is “sensitivity”. I.e, 24/8 = 3. So, 1 degree K of warming from greenhouse gases causes 3K of total warming due to the sensitivity of the climate (feedback) to changes in greenhouse gases.
Monckton indicates that there is an error. That there is already feedback to TE(255.4K).
So, we have the difference between TN-TE = ~32K and 8K ( ΔTB ) leaving another 24K to account for. The 8K ( ΔTB ) of warming does not cause an additional 24K of warming. Rather, Monckton indicates that feedback to the 255.5K is also a factor. If this is true, then the calculations leading to feedback accounting for 75% of the temperature change or sensitivity figures of 3 are incorrect.
Trying to visualize this in a simple way, given that the earth’s atmosphere will always have water vapor in it, even in an ice-house earth due to the sublimation of ice/snow to water vapor and due to the contributions from volcanic heat and volcanic activity, it is definitely true that the sensitivity calculation cannot be done the way it has been done by climatologists to arrive at high sensitivity numbers. That is the main point for me. And a crushing one for climate modelers.
Next – can feedback calculations be done in the manner that is now suggested by Monckton?
I think the reason that it can is that the current conditions of the planet (amount of free water, amount of ice) and etc., that change the albedo of the earth in a way create the earth’s “natural feedback engine”. Given these existing conditions, and based on the concept of feedback and control theory it is undeniable there is feedback to the TE 255.4K. Thus, part of the ~32K difference between TN and TE is due to the feedback to the 255.4K. The direct greenhouse warming of ΔTB = 8 K is therefore not responsible for the remaining 24K or ΔTB.
Monckton does indicate there are some non-linearity. However, for the purposes of calculating feedback under the current planetary conditions that we are under and likely to be under – I think his method is correct.
As Milonkovitch cycles change – this will eventually caused changes in the earth’s albedo during some natural cold period. If the change is significant enough, based on the fact that ice ages happen, there is some step change in what I called the earth’s natural feedback engine. At which point, it will still be true that whatever TE that exists when this step change happens, the TE will still be needed as part of the feedback calculation.

Reply to  Frank
March 21, 2018 8:10 pm

Most grateful to BobG for having really thought about the argument we have presented. The central question the climate extremists must now answer is this: By what magical process do the feedbacks in the climate system know that they must not induce a response to the emission temperature of 255.4 K but must induce a response to the next 8 K?

Reply to  Frank
March 21, 2018 8:42 pm

Frank is making no attempt to understand the head posting. Like it or not, the difference between emission temperature and the natural temperature in 1850 is only 32 K. Previously, owing to the failure of official climatology to appreciate that the emission temperature induces a feedback response, that 32 K was apportioned approximately as to 8 K directly-forced warming from the presence of the greenhouse gases and 24 K further warming as a feedback response to that 8 K. What we are saying is that one must allow for a feedback response to the 255 K emission temperature. Assuming that the 8 K directly-forced warming from the greenhouse gases remains the same, it follows that the previously-imagined feedback in response to that 8 K of directly-forced warming will be a lot smaller than before.
Or one can do it another way. Take the figures in Lacis (2010): waterbelt Earth with albedo 0.418; emission temperature consequently 243 K; actual temperature 252 K without greenhouse gases. Then the feedback fraction is 1 – 252 / 287.6, or about 0.12. You can play about with the numbers a bit, but not much. Even if you go to Pierrehumbert’s snowball Earth, with albedo 0.6, you only get a feedback fraction 0.20. But neither oif these instances is relevant, because the correct way to study the impact of the greenhouse gases is to compare the Earth with and without them at the same instant – say, 1850. In that event, the albedo will be about the same as today’s: hence the smaller feedback fraction 0.08. From these three cases, snowball, waterbelt and 1850, one learns that the feedback fraction actually declines over time.
If you want to disturb the 0,.08 value, you will have to construct a plausible sequence of events to explain why you will not allocate the vast majority of the feedback element in the 32 K to the 255.4 K emission temperature. It’s no good just waiving your hands and mumbling “nonlinearity”. If anything, the nonlinearity goes the other way, leaving practically no feedback response to the greenhouse gases.

Frank
Reply to  Frank
March 23, 2018 10:44 am

Lord Monckton wrote: “Previously, owing to the failure of official climatology to appreciate that the emission temperature induces a feedback response, that 32 K was apportioned approximately as to 8 K directly-forced warming from the presence of the greenhouse gases and 24 K further warming as a feedback response to that 8 K. What we are saying is that one must allow for a feedback response to the 255 K emission temperature. Assuming that the 8 K directly-forced warming from the greenhouse gases remains the same, it follows that the previously-imagined feedback in response to that 8 K of directly-forced warming will be a lot smaller than before.”
All of this is irrelevant. First, lambda_0 is not a constant; the emission of radiation is non-linear, it varies with T^4. Other feedbacks are also non-linear. For example, saturation water vapor changes exponentially, roughly 7%/K. We can’t say anything about about how 32 K is apportioned, because we have no idea how feedbacks change when we get more than about 5K or so away from today’s 288 K. -5 K is the LGM, a dramatically different planet from today’s.
Second, we don’t know what temperature the planet would have if the condensable GHGs were removed from the atmosphere. 255 K is the blackbody equivalent temperature for the planet, which is calculated assuming that the planet’s albedo remains the same. Of course albedo won’t remain the same. The blackbody equivalent temperature is MODEL for our planet without condensable GHGs – bad model. And if you accept Lacis’s AOGCMs – another model – then you might as well accept his estimate for ECS. That model is parameterized to reproduce observations at today’s temperature.
Third, climate scientists have promoted the myth that the GHE is 33 K based on the blackbody equivalent temperature. What is true is that a blackbody at 255K emits as much radiation (240 W/m2) as the Earth does to space, but the surface of our planet emits an average of 390 W/m2. The difference is the GHE 150 W/m2, not 33 K. 150 W/m2 is a measured quantity, reality, not the output from a model. The heart of the climate science problem is converting a change in radiation – like 150 W/m2 or a forcing of 3.5 W/m2 – into a change in temperature. WE DON’T KNOW HOW TO DO THIS PROPERLY! The change in TOA fluxes with Ts is the net result of a very complicated NON-LINEAR process. Mathematical equations – from the IPCC or amplifiers or control systems – do not provide the correct answer when they don’t correctly accurately describe the phenomena. The Bose equation is not REVEALED TRUTH about how our planet behaves. Our planet isn’t an electronic amplifier! Lambda_0 from AOGCMs applies only to temperatures near 288, because emission is not a linear function of temperature. And f is not a constant either. You would know that if you bothered to derive the source of f from more fundamental physics. Try it. Let me repeat: The Bose equation is not REVEALED TRUTH about how our planet behaves. Your failure to recognize its limitations appears religious in nature: If you abandon this equation, you can no longer worship in the temple of low climate sensitivity. If you were a scientist, you would be willing to explore the assumptions used to derive the equations you use.
The Bose equation has some applicability to climate sensitivity, because the equations that apply to both amplifiers and our planet can be rearranged to resemble each other, but only if feedbacks are independent of temperature. That is a good approximation for only a few degK.
An analogy: Acceleration due to gravity is a constant (g) near the surface of the Earth. You need a more general formula – G*m_s/r^2 elsewhere. (And general relativity in some situations.) You can navigate near the earth with g, but you can’t get to the Moon with it. Think of our planet without GHGs as being the Moon. You’ll never get the right answer with g alone.

Reply to  Frank
March 24, 2018 11:34 am

In response to Frank, the criticisms he seems to be making – in a comment that I find less than limpid – are chiefly criticisms of current mainstream climatology. With respect, he should really address those criticisms not to me but to IPCC.
Rightly or wrongly, it is conventional to derive the pre-industrial feedback fraction – as Lacis (2010) did – by comparing the temperature of modern times with the emission temperature under the assumption that at all stages today’s albedo is held fixed at about 0.3. There is a small drawback in this approach, in that the albedo feedbacks are not by convention included in this calculation. But it is thought to be the fairest way to do it.
As for Frank’s point that the Planck parameter varies with albedo, under the conventional assumption above the Planck parameter is of course constant.
However, even if one were to do calculations in which the Planck parameter was allowed to vary, its value actually declines as temperature rises, inducing a negative feedback. Per cautionem, we have not taken this into account in our calculations: but, if we were to do so, the feedback fraction would be somewhat smaller than we find it to be.

ROBERT CIRCLE
March 21, 2018 8:01 am

It seems to me that the people who BURN the fuel are the ones contributing to “global warming”. The oil company is not at fault if people miss use there product. Maybe the oil co should label their product.
Best of luck with your lawsuit today.

Reply to  ROBERT CIRCLE
March 23, 2018 4:23 pm

That argument would fit right in with a movement to decriminalize crack cocaine, or remove any checks whatsoever on the purchase of semi-automatic long barrel fire arms.
The difference being that with those cases, the harm would be localizes to some proximity to the purchaser.
Please acquaint yourself with the concept of “the tragedy of small errors” before responding.

Reply to  ROBERT CIRCLE
March 24, 2018 11:43 am

I am most grateful to Robert Circle for his best wishes. I am glad to say that the judge, having heard all parties during the tutorial, and having read a malevolent brief from the plaintiffs attacking us personally in a manner that would have been libelous in any but the privileged surroudings of a court of law, has nevertheless ordered that our amicus brief should be filed and should stand part of the proceedings.
Already the Forces of Darkness are snapping and snarling. Twitter is full of scornful comments on our brief by various ClimComm “scientists”. But, like it or not, they are going to have to produce replies to our brief: for otherwise the judge will be entitled to take the view that by their silence they admit they cannot fault it.
The judge will not, I think, be particularly impressed if the comments on our brief are as inadequate as some of those made by true-believers here. One reason why we launched our brief upon the waters is that we wanted the “scientists” most likely to be consulted by the plaintiffs to tear our findings apart as best they may. if there be anything of substance wrong with our result, they will find it. Frankly, from our point of view, the sooner the better. If we are wrong, then it is best to find that out as soon as possible. We are not on an ego-trip here.
If we are not wrong, then even if the responses from the true-believing “scientists” to our brief are as scathingly expressed as we expect them to be, it will be apparent to any sufficiently independent-minded scientist – including the judge – that we are right. And although the judge is a Clinton appointee who has opposed the Trump administration on DACA, on this scientific question we think he will do his very best to master and understand our brief; that he will ask all parties to state which of our premises they disagree with, to what extent and why, and he will then draw conclusions that may well be not at all what they would wish or expect.
Even if the judge decides we are not right, he must say way. If he finds an error in what we have done, he will say so, and we shall study very carefully what he says. For, in our simple way, we are merely seekers after truth. We have no dog in the fight: most of us are not paid (I’m not, for one): but we are really curious to know whether we are right about what we think we have discovered.

March 21, 2018 8:59 am

you will find very little, if any, discussion of Monckton on this blog. I discourage people from thinking in over-simplistic terms. If you wish to pursue, better to do so at WUWT.

–Steve McIntyre

Reply to  Joe Born
March 21, 2018 12:00 pm

Steven McIntyre is a Canadian mining exploration company director, a former minerals prospector and semi-retired mining consultant whose work has included statistical analysis. He is best known as the founder and editor of Climate Audit, a blog devoted to the analysis and discussion of climate data.
Well, don’t forget “DeSmogBlog Project”
https://www.desmogblog.com/about
Credentials
Jim Hoggan — owner of the Vancouver PR firm Hoggan & Associates….PR FIRM!!! HA, HA, REAL CLIMATE SCIENCE SOURCE….NOT!
Brendan — Executive Director and Managing Editor. He is also a FREELANCE WRITER…FREELANCE perhaps because NOBODY WILL HIRE HIM!!
These “experts” defend “GloBULL Warming” and criticize “skeptics” … a CANADIAN PR Firm whose “expert” is a “freelance writer’ whom NOBODY will hire him to write for them.
You can do better.

Reply to  Joe Born
March 21, 2018 12:53 pm

Mr. Born, your typical denigration is repetitive, I’ve dealt with it (your ego) many times before.
If you wish to pursue, better to do so at your own blog where you can be king of the discussion.

Reply to  Anthony Watts
March 24, 2018 8:09 pm

Ah, I see I missed something addressed to me.
“Ego”? Really, Mr. Watts? You display a phenomenal lack of self-awareness. You need to do some soul-searching. If my merely quoting Mr. McIntyre’s comment about your site and Lord Monckton is what causes you to attribute the comment to my ego, you may want to consider whether you may be projecting.
For me the motivation was not ego; I’m much too old for that. It was Fremdschämen: I was vicariously embarrassed for you. Moreover, I was embarrassed for myself as a skeptic that the main skeptic site clings to someone like Lord Monckton and thereby makes us skeptics look like kooks. I had hoped that a quote from Mr. McIntyre would wake you up.
Three years ago I tried to explain to you that Lord Monckton’s “Why Models Run Hot: Results from an Irreducibly Simple Climate Model” was not only flawed but so egregiously wrong that a junior undergraduate engineer could see it. This was not opinion. It was mathematical fact. I pointed out the problems, yet Lord Monckton merely blustered in response, and you apparently ate it up. I urged you at the time to check it out with control-systems types. I believe you attended Purdue; there are plenty of them there, I’m sure. (Sorry about Friday, by the way.)
A year later, in Lord Monckton’s “Feet of Clay” series, Bernie Hutchins, who I think did stuff like feedback circuits for a living, did the same as I did. Lord Monckton? What does he know? At least you could have tried to check out whether Lord Monckton was blowing smoke.
But apparently you didn’t. And now Lord Monckton has again embarrassed us knowledgeable skeptics.
We have tried to make you realize that Lord Monckton is the Bill Nye of the skeptic side: an embarrassment. Maybe you don’t care. Maybe throwing red meat at his fanboys is what makes your gun shoot these days.
I’d like to think otherwise, but it’s getting hard to do.

Reply to  Anthony Watts
March 24, 2018 8:26 pm

Mr. Born, how dare you denigrate the great Viscount Monckton. He by his own admission discovered the cure for HIV:

..
This guy is the greatest thing since sliced bread to walk on the face of the earth!!!!

Reply to  Anthony Watts
March 25, 2018 5:20 am

Recognizing that in these totalitarian times, where no one without a piece of paper to say he has a qualification after suitable Socialist training in a single metier is allowed to say anything, I recruited three engineers, one of whom was a professor, and they would not have put their names to the paper we have jointly co-authored if they had considered the approach we were taking to be incorrect.
As to the fact that I am also researching a method of treating hitherto intractable infectious diseases, surely this is a blameless enough occupation. We make no claims, for no sufficiently large prospective, randomized, double-blind clinical trial of our approach has yet been conducted. Much more research is needed. But several learned papers have appeared in leading medical journals. As for the susceptibijlity of HIV to our method, an HIV patient kindly came forward and gave us some infected blood. A viral titer was established at an independent laboratory. Then the sample was divided and various concentrations of the antipathogenic were administered. Even at very small concentrations, which would be safely achievable in vivo, it was found that the medication reduced the viral load.
The technique is promising, in that the medication is already listed in the U.S. British and American Pharmacopoeias; is plentiful, inexpensive and safe if handled correctly, and has no side-effects other than allergy in 1 patient in 10,000,. Owing to its electrochemical properties, unique in nature, it is potentially effective against two-thirds of all known pathogens, since it works by a technique that is tailored to target as many pathogens and pathotypes as possible. But it is very early days: our result is as baffling to some in medicine as our climate result is to some in climate science.
However, we shall not be deterred from our research by vituperation from climate totalitarians seeking to discredit us. The medication has the potential to save many lives, but not until our research is complete and published, which will probably not be in my lifetime. All we assert is that initial results are not unpromising. Beyond that, we make no claims.

March 21, 2018 9:08 am

S-B Law is applied incorrectly here. The Sun’s flux is not 241 W/m2. The Sun’s flux is 1368 W/m2, hitting a rotating ball at one revolution per day, with clouds. 241 is a vast oversimplification, and furthermore, the S-B Law uses the 4th power of the temperature, which means 241 is just wrong. Yes, to the eternal shame of my alma mater the execrable Trenberth and his cartoon takes the Sun’s flux and divides it by four after using an average albedo, but this is just not what happens, don’t drink the KookAid.

Reply to  Michael Moon
March 21, 2018 8:06 pm

In response to Mr Moon, the Stefan-Blotzmann law is not applied incorrectly. The value we have used is entirely standard throughout climatology, so, since that is not where our major error lies, we have accepted it, and several other quantities, for the sake of argument and without warranty.

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 22, 2018 12:01 pm

Well, it is wrong throughout climatology. S-B Law uses the fourth power of the two temperatures to determine a flux. Determining a flux this way, dividing it by four, and reversing the equation to determine a temperature ignores the arithmetic involved in the fourth power.

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 22, 2018 4:06 pm

Mr Moon will have to accept that the approach we took was to accept for the sake of argument all methods and values universally used in climatology, except where we are able to provide a formal demonstration that an error has arisen.
Though the use of the fundamental equation of radiative transfer to derive the emission temperature is a little crude, in that it does not allow for latitudinal variations in incident flux density and hence in temperature, it is not incorrect. Mr Moon should consult any good textbook of climatological physics until lhe understands the matter.

phil salmon
March 21, 2018 11:59 am

666 replies – how much more proof do we need that Christopher Monckton is eeevil
/sarc off

March 21, 2018 12:48 pm

An interesting study, but I scent a fatal flaw – “The centennial-equivalent warming rate from 1950-2017 was 1.2 K/century” according to HADCRUT 4. The adjustments underlying HADCRUT are so pervasive that it can no longer be said too reflect reality – it is a completely fake data set with no connection to the raw data. As such, any attempt to use it to justify a scientific theory must be flawed.

Reply to  Philip Lloyd
March 21, 2018 5:34 pm

Would either of the following bear one way or the other on your assessment of the unreliability of HadCRUT as a source of data? The second one is somewhat dated by now.
HadCRUT Adjustments and the 1.5°C Tipping Point. (Now Includes September Data Except for HadCRUT)
justthefactswuwt / October 26, 2016
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/10/26/hadcrut-adjustments-and-the-1-5c-tipping-point-now-includes-september-data-except-for-hadcrut/
“A new HadCRUT4.5 data set came out last month. HadCRUT4.5 replaces HadCRUT4.4. In an earlier post, I commented on how virtually all changes over the past 16 years showed increases. I cannot say that this time. Of the last 6 complete years, the last 3 showed increases but the previous 3 showed decreases. Changes in earlier years are relatively minor for the most part.”
Scientific Evidence Rejects Anthropogenic CO2 Theory…Global warming is not even global. This document provides a brief summary of the CO2 global warming issue – and shows why the theory is wrong. Here are some excerpts, but you should go to the website and read the entire analysis.
http://appinsys.com/GlobalWarming/GW_Summary.htm

Reply to  TEWS_Pilot
March 21, 2018 8:02 pm

In reply to TEWS-Pilot, the temperature data are of course important in any analysis such as ours, but the error we have discovered is so large that the ever-upward adjustments of the temperature record don’t have all that much effect on our conclusions.

Reply to  Philip Lloyd
March 21, 2018 8:04 pm

In response to Mr Lloyd, we have to work with the available data. On the basis of that data, we can show that official climatology has made a large error. After correction, global warming is simply going to be too small to matter.

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 22, 2018 3:58 am

In comment on another article, I said “Of relevance is a little referenced research report “On the Validity of NOAA, NASA and Hadley CRU Global Average Surface Temperature Data & The Validity of EPA’s CO2 Endangerment Finding” by Dr. James P. Wallace III, Dr. Joseph S. D’Aleo, and Dr. Craig D. Idso, June 2017. It concludes “the magnitude of their historical data adjustments, that removed their cyclical temperature patterns, are totally inconsistent with published and credible U.S. and other temperature data. Thus, it is impossible to conclude from the three published global average surface temperature [GAST] data sets that recent years have been the warmest ever –despite current claims of record setting warming.””

Reply to  Monckton of Brenchley
March 22, 2018 4:02 pm

Mr Lloyd’s point, though interesting, is not strictly relevant to the present discussion. For our results are robust and vary little regardless of the temperature dataset used.
What can be said, though, is that the work done by the indefatigable Tony Heller to expose the very large degree to which the global warming of the past century or so originates in revisions to the originally-reported data do show how large the uncertainties in attempting to measure global temperature are.

Richard M
March 21, 2018 7:57 pm

I’m wondering why a value of 255.4 for the emission temperature. That assumes an albedo of about .3. If you are going to use anything for albedo of a planet without GHGs it would seem the moon’s value of around .1 would be a better choice. This would raise the emission temperature to 271.1.
Not likely to see a snowball Earth at this temperature.
In fact, this temperature should easily support adding H2O and maintaining it in liquid form. We would see both and increase in albedo (negative feedback) and the absorption of energy into the atmosphere via water vapor (positive feedback). What would be the temperature of this planet without any non-condensing GHGs?
It is possible it wouldn’t be all that different than where we are today and no CO2 required.

Reply to  Richard M
March 21, 2018 8:00 pm

In response to Richard M, as far as possible we have tried to use official climatology’s numbers. That way, there is far less for them to try to argue about. Besides, the pre-industrial comparison we make is between an Earth with and without greenhouse gases in 1850, so we need to make the albedo today’s albedo, which is indeed 0.293.