Foreword by Paul Driessen
The United States has more coal than any other nation. With modern coal-fired power plants, it can be used to generate very inexpensive electricity, with virtually no significant pollution: about the only thing that comes out of the stacks today are water vapor and carbon dioxide, the miracle molecule that helps plants grow and makes life on Earth possible. Even though coal-based electricity has plummeted from 52% of all US electricity in 2008 to 30% by the time President Obama left office, it still helps to keep the lights on and keep people warm in all but a few states.
But as Tom Harris points out in this thought-provoking article, even under President Trump, the USA is a long way from taking full advantage of its mighty coal reserves – and the restrictions on coal use bring virtually no environmental or climate benefits. That’s because the scientific case for fossil fuels fueling “dangerous manmade climate change” grows weaker by the week – and because no developing countries are going to reduce their use of coal anytime soon. So any and all reductions in coal use and CO2 emissions by the United States bring zero benefits in the global arena.
Frigid cold is why we need dependable energy
Cheap, abundant coal is key to national security, warm homes and wintertime survival
By Tom Harris
Recent record-setting low temperatures have underscored the creature comfort and often life-saving importance of abundant, reliable, affordable energy. They also reminded us how appropriate it was that America’s 2017 National Security Strategy (NSS) emphasizes energy security – and was released on December 18, three days before this extra chilly winter officially began.
This first Trump Administration NSS identifies four vital national interests. Two of them – “promoting American prosperity” and “advancing American influence” – require that the United States “take advantage of our wealth in domestic resources.” However, America is no longer taking full advantage of one of its most important of its domestic resources: its vast coal reserves, the largest of any nation on Earth.
Testifying November 28 in Charleston, West Virginia, at the Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) public hearing on repealing the Clean Power Plan, Robert E. Murray, president and CEO of Murray Energy Corp., summarized the bleak state of affairs.
“Prior to the election of President Obama,” Murray noted, “52% of America’s electricity was generated from coal, and this rate was much higher in the Midwest. That percentage of coal generation declined under the Obama Administration to 30%. Under the Obama Administration, and its so-called Clean Power Plan, over 400 coal-fired generating plants totaling over 100,000 megawatts of capacity were closed, with no proven environmental benefit whatsoever.”
Much of this was driven by Obama’s determination to be seen as contributing to “arresting climate change,” to quote from his 2015 NSS, by mandating severe reductions of carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions from power plants. Unbelievably, this NSS listed “climate change” ahead of “major energy market disruptions” in its list of “top strategic risks to our interests.”
That made no sense. Climate is, and always will be, variable. There is nothing we can do to stop it. And many scientists do not support the hypothesis that our CO2 emissions will cause dangerous climate change.
Regardless, recent climate change has been unremarkable. It is certainly not “unprecedented,” and it clearly does not constitute a national security threat by comparison to a lack of affordable, reliable energy to power the nation and its military, and export to world markets. President Donald Trump was right to make only passing reference to climate change in the 2017 NSS.
Even in the unlikely event that CO2 emissions were or became a problem, developing countries are the source of most of the world’s emissions, and China alone currently emits about twice as much the USA. Those nations are not about to follow Obama’s lead. They understand that they must continue building coal-fired power plants at an aggressive pace, to meet their growing electricity needs.
Even the New York Times admitted that “As Beijing joins climate fight, Chinese companies build coal plants” (July 1, 2017).
“Chinese corporations are building or planning to build more than 700 new coal plants at home and around the world, some in countries that today burn little or no coal, according to tallies compiled by Urgewald, an environmental group based in Berlin…. Overall, 1,600 coal plants are planned or under construction in 62 countries, according to Urgewald’s tally, which uses data from the Global Coal Plant Tracker portal. The new plants would expand the world’s coal-fired power capacity by 43 percent.”
Similarly, India’s heavy reliance on coal will continue even in 2047, according to the June 16, 2017 report “Energizing India,” by the National Institute for Transforming India (NTTI) and Institute of Energy Economics, Japan (IEEJ). Coal is forecast to rise from its 2012 46% of India’s total energy mix to 50% in 2047 in the “business as usual scenario.” Even in an “ambitious” scenario in which renewables supply 12% of India’s primary energy (in 2012 it was 3%), coal still accounts for 42% of India’s energy mix.
The authors of the NTTI/IEEJ report state, “India would like to use its abundant coal reserves as it provides a cheap source of energy and ensures energy security as well.” Simply put, coal is essential if the rest of India’s population is to gain access to electricity and rise up out of abject poverty. Even today, some 240 million Indians (nearly seven times the population of Canada!) still do not have electricity.
India and these analysts are right, of course. So it is a welcome development that Trump is promoting a resurgence of the American coal industry.
Obama’s dedication to the climate scare contributed significantly to coal’s tragic decline in America. Besides the impact of his Clean Power Plan, a rule that will hopefully be withdrawn very soon, coal has been hammered as a result of a 2015 EPA rule that limits plant-fertilizing carbon dioxide emissions from new coal-fired power stations. The result is that the U.S. can no longer build modern, clean, efficient coal plants to replace older stations, as is happening in China, India and even Europe. Here’s why:
The 2015 EPA rule, titled “Standards of Performance for Greenhouse Gas Emissions From New, Modified, and Reconstructed Stationary Sources: Electric Generating Units,” limits CO2 emissions on new coal-fired stations to 1,400 pounds per megawatt-hour of electricity generated. When releasing the new standard, the EPA asserted that it “is the performance achievable by a [supercritical pulverized coal] unit capturing about 20 percent of its carbon pollution.” This is irrational.
CO2 is no more pollution than is water vapour, the major greenhouse gas in Earth’s atmosphere. By calling the gas “carbon,” the Obama EPA deliberately and falsely encouraged the public to think of it as something dirty, like graphite and soot, which really are carbon. Calling CO2 by its proper name, carbon dioxide, would have helped people remember that it is an invisible, odourless gas that we exhale and is essential to plant photosynthesis. Mr. Obama apparently did not want people to remember that.
Moreover, the technology of CO2 capture on a full-scale power plant is still a technological fantasy. So in reality, the EPA was actually banning even the most modern, most efficient, least polluting, supercritical coal-fired stations – because even their CO2 emissions are at least 20% above the arbitrary EPA limit.
Speaking at the November 9, 2017 America First Energy Conference in Houston, Texas, keynote speaker Joe Leimkuhler, vice president of drilling for Louisiana-based LLOG Exploration, showed that America has 22.1% of the world’s proven coal reserves, more than any other country, and enough to last for 381 years at current consumption rates.
So it is a tragedy that America can no longer build modern coal-fired power stations to replace its aging fleet. Clearly, the rule limiting CO2 emissions from new coal-fired power stations must be cancelled as soon as possible.
The climate scare has also impeded coal’s development in the USA by restricting its export. In particular, Asia would be a huge market for inexpensive American coal if sufficient U.S. export facilities were available. But, again, thanks largely to the climate scare contributing to the blocking of construction of coal export terminals, America exports only about as much coal as does Poland.
To ensure energy security, especially when demand soars during bitterly cold spells and heat waves, and to “restore America’s advantages in the world and build upon our country’s great strengths” (quoting from the NSS fact sheets), the U.S. must expand its fleet of coal-fired power stations and build coal export facilities as quickly as possible. To make that possible, the Trump administration must do everything in its power to thoroughly debunk the climate alarm that has so crippled coal’s development.
Tom Harris is executive director of the Ottawa, Canada-based International Climate Science Coalition. He writes from Ontario, a province that seriously damaged its economy by banning all coal-fired power generation.
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After all the virtue signaling and promises to save the world the fact remains that fossil fuel benefits man more than it hurts him.
The benefit is many, many more. It is our whole life.
Maybe you or you or you would not be alive or your life would never have started without fossil energies.
That “hurt” is almost entirely imaginary.
The real irony is that fossil fuel enables the level of comfort that people have to complain about its existence.
… a view out my window this morning, 01/17/2018 — central NC USA:
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… once I ventured outside, I captured this view behind my house:
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… one last photo — shot from my kitchen window this morning and tweaked a bit with a photo editor to add some artistic drama:
?dl=0
Thank you, local power company, for your coal-fired-power-produced electricity that keeps the furnace cooperating with the natural gas furnace.
I’m cold… I guess I should throw another shovel-full of coal from the coalbin into the central heater. Yes!!! Mine is a “gas conversion” done in the 1930s. But originally the big hulk burned good ol’ Pennsylvania anthracite.
GoatGuy
I am a climate refugee. I escaped to Southern Arizona. It was 71 F here today.
So Stay a warm my friend in New England. I lived there for 9 yrs.
Tonight at 50 degrees outside, my furnace burns fracked shale gas piped in from West Texas to Arizona. My electricity is coal generated from Utah-Colorado-Wyoming coal (as best as I can tell from the BN-SF coal trains.
Dig, baby dig. Drill, baby drill. Keep it coming.
CO2 keeps the world Green.
That 71 degrees would sure be nice. In Alberta we haven’t seen temperatures anywhere close to that for months. It got up to 32 F today and even that felt warm.
Rob,
Lots of Alberta license plates on the roads here in Tucson.
BTW: I grew up in Edmonton, 1964-68. Fun for a child. Snow forts, skating on open ice rinks. But Sucks as an adult.
We usually see Ontario license plates here in Florida. And the cars are covered in road salt grime.
How I wish I was back there! 10 degrees in East Texas this morning, with 2 inches of snow and ice still on the ground. Coldest morning here in 20 years – the high yesterday was 25, the lowest high temp ever recorded here for that date.
I went home for lunch and to check on the dogs around 2:30 today. Realized it was warmer outside than inside … a nice warm wind and 68 F in western Oregon this afternoon.
What would Popeye do for spinach without CO2, Eat that spinach. Heave them bales and tow that line.
[One must be careful when stepping up tow’rds da line before they toe da line prior to towing dat line. 8<) .mod]
‘Spent a couple of winters in Petoskey, MI in home built in 1914 with a coal furnace and stoker. There’s always a breeze off Lake Michigan and it seldom gets above freezing in the winter. During occasional power outages, we were toasty because I could manually throw coal into the furnace. Our many neighbors who had converted to gas had no heat because their gas furnaces required electrical power to operate solenoids and igniters.
One thing about coal that isn’t emphasized enough is that coal plants have many days or several months of coal stored at the plant, so they don’t depend on pipeline deliveries of gas.
The politically-correct Left is desperately trying to destroy the industrialized West and its standard of living for the middle class. They want it for their children. The Left has come to believe in the religion of the Climate Change and the Evil Magic Molecule sins. They can believe there is no future without their own private access to that molecule. They are as wrong as believing in horse and buggy in 1880 as the future of transportation. Something better came along that no one of that time imagined.
To them, today’s standard of living represents a threat to their silver-spoon children in 2050 being able to cruise in their yachts, to private jet to St Tropez or Tahiti luxury…. because they want to use the same fossil fuel the proles want for their SUVs and blue-collar pleasures of a dirt bike or hot rod.
On a related note: The BlackRock Hedge fund CEO today sent an open letter today to all US Fortune 500 companies extolling the virtues of a green economy and a low carbon footprint and telling them to get on-board with his Virtue Signalling message to eschew short-term profit for the “climate.” Such is the sad state of the Left today. This guy is a moron. M O R O R N.
That BlackRock CEO is PC dolt. Invest somewhere else. Black Rock is sunk as a Hedge fund. His returns will be sub-Par. Below his peers with that strategy. I guess he valued peer virtue signalling over his investors returns. So sad.
The modern left is a KGB subversion program that’s been running on autopilot for nearly thirty years. Destroying the West isn’t an unintended side-effect, it’s the goal.
They have pretty much taken over the universities, which is what they planned. For that, and other reasons, higher education is in serious trouble. It does nothing to train thinkers. At best, it trains folks who can create BS from whole cloth. One result is that the MBA is destroying American industry. Another effect is that science, as it is currently practised, has become a waste of time and resources. Most published research findings are false.
Our brightest minds have been inculcated into stupidity. That bodes poorly for the future of the nation. I don’t know if this was all planned by the KGB or just a ‘lucky’ accident but the net result is really bad. Capitalism and fossil fuels have created a world where almost everything is better. You have to be highly educated to believe otherwise.
Mark,
Interesting observation. You may be interested in a professional counter-intelligence research and analysis of the original Comintern/KGB operation to subvert and destroy Normal-American culture.
Willing Accomplices: How KGB covert influence operations created Political Correctness
http://www.willingaccomplices.com
MarkG, the US socialists have left the KGB and other communists in the dust. The great majority of the Russian public knew they were being conned. A large percentage (and growing) of the US public doesn’t even realize it — in fact they’re indoctrinated to love it.
” A large percentage (and growing) of the US public doesn’t even realize it — in fact they’re indoctrinated to love it.”
How’d that happen, Beng?
Can you provide the who/why/how/where/when on the program to indoctrinate Normal-Americans to hate themselves, their history, and their culture?
They are doing a remarkably bad job then… West still here!
When all the environmental hoopla started in the Nixon administration I always thought it was a communist plot. Then when earth day was started by radicals I was sure of it. Nothing in the 40 years since has changed my mind.
In Griff’s world, if something hasn’t happened that’s proof it can’t happen.
Except for CO2 causing catastrophic warming. That’s definitely gonna happen. Someday.
Mark, I think the planning was probably the Frankfurt School. Their ideas are now coming home to roost in all areas. The KGB probably has less to do with that than Common Purpose and ‘communitarianism’
“Mark, I think the planning was probably the Frankfurt School. Their ideas are now coming home to roost in all areas. The KGB probably has less to do with that than Common Purpose and ‘communitarianism’”
Good guess, Ian. The “Frankfurt School” was just one of the many groups and individuals who implemented the plan. The genius of the operation was the Comintern’s covert influence master, Willi Muenzenberg.
Willi was a close friend of Lenin. He created the belief system that has become Political Correctness. And he created the methods to insert these beliefs into American culture.
Some details:
http://heretical.com/miscella/munzen.html
Mark I agree with the sentiments being expressed here except for one little detail. In my view it isn’t THE RUSSIANS (or KGB leftovers) and I suspect it hasn’t been for a long time.
“Chinese corporations are building or planning to build more than 700 new coal plants at home and around the world, some in countries that today burn little or no coal, according to tallies compiled by Urgewald, an environmental group based in Berlin…. Overall, 1,600 coal plants are planned or under construction in 62 countries, according to Urgewald’s tally, which uses data from the Global Coal Plant Tracker portal. The new plants would expand the world’s coal-fired power capacity by 43 percent.”
These days ‘communist’ is seldom put in front of ‘China’ and they employ a version of capitalism to run their economy but that doesn’t make them free market. They’re a Marxist dictatorship. What was the cold war is now and economic war. So the people subverting students in the US, UK and Commonwealth countries, bribing politicians to make disastrous policy decisions on energy policy are not just bumbling along because they ‘believe’ in global warming or communism. They are, except for the useful idiots, being actively driven and know exactly what they’re about. Here in the UK we’re fighting for our lives, economically, and if I’m not mistaken, it’s much the same in the US.
Kent Clizbe: Have you been paying attention to what’s happened to Columbus Day in many Left-controlled American cities lately?
“Kent Clizbe: Have you been paying attention to what’s happened to Columbus Day in many Left-controlled American cities lately?”
James,
Sure. Those anti-Columbus actions started about 100 years ago. That’s just the tip of the iceberg. The PC-Prog belief system is 6 points: “America is a racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, imperialist, capitalist hellhole.” And then there’s the action corollary: “And it must be changed.”
Once you understand the 6 point beliefs, you’ll see that every issue is framed by the PC-Progs in the light of one of those points.
Columbus Day? Imperialist! Must be changed!
Successful economy spreads wealth, cars, and energy across the citizenry? Capitalist hellhole! Must be changed! CO2 is a poison! Ban it!
The “Left” (you might want to consider another, more accurate set of terms, Left vs. Right is a meaningless paradigm today–try Politically Correct Progressives–PC-Progs) is about hating Normal-America. Their beliefs are based on hatred. Every belief is anti-something. All the hate is channeled into destruction.
commieBob
I quit an MBA course after the first term. I expected to be enlightened. Instead, I was to be an automated manager, a slave to left wing university lecturers and process management that sought to suck the entrepreneurial spirit from any organisation it touched.
Perhaps it was a bad course I enrolled on, except it followed the national curriculum prescribed by left wing academics.
Had I stuck at it, I might be by now, a very wealthy man. But Capitalism has principles, so I’m still financially broke, but at least I’m wealthy in my dignity.
One of my heroes is Henry Mintzberg. link He points out that the main product of most MBA education is hubris and failure. He has convincing ideas of how MBA education should be done and is putting them into practise. If I had to get an MBA, I would try to get into his program.
@commieBob: All the business schools are funded by the banks and banks are not known for liberal ideology. So it depends whether you are in a science or arts program or whether you are in a business program. Seems like these days we are graduating more business people than anything else. But maybe that is just my impression and its not accurate.
Have you read “Disinformation”? Professor Ronald Rychlak is the co-author of Disinformation with Lieutenant General Ion Mihai Pacepa, the highest ranking Soviet bloc intelligence officer ever to defect to the West. I have it pdf if you’re interested… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg3UjwbTo20&list=PLFtmX0DHFijlImnTGgA4VKSsmj1gAtOKf&index=2
BlackRock did extremely well short selling Carillion in the UK in recent days. And as a result of Carillion’s bankruptcy fire fighters are now having to serve school dinners. So I don’t see much evidence of the CEO valuing virtue signalling over investor returns.
BlackRock is a Soros-Rockefeller virtue signalling shill. A lost cause.
The Smart money will go elsewhere and expose BlackRock Investments as a Bernie Madoff-like fund. Playing shell games with investor money to stay alive.
“CEO valuing virtue signalling over investor returns.”
Are you daft?
BlackRock said one thing and did the other!
Their public concern for the environment is a virtue signal. Believe it at your peril while they invest on the contrarian.
If they were to now actually follow those signals, they would be toast in the investment world or objective ROI.
Larry Fink (of BlackRock) is, and has always been, dishonest. He made his fortune by buying high-cost, front-end load mutual funds cast off by incompetent and dishonest operators (such as Merrill Lynch and PNC). He then went on to peddle ETFs (more snake oil).
He’s been selling what is essentially snake oil and garbage for decades.
What is it about our politicians these days that stops them from seeing the bleeding obvious – that the West achieved the first world standard of living that it has over the past century primarily because of available, cheap, reliable ENERGY, and that any policies or actions that undermine this, by anyone, is a ticket to economic suicide?
“What is it about our politicians these days that stops them from seeing the bleeding obvious”
$$$$$$$
Buying politicians provides a huge return on investment. And few care about any consequences beyond the next election, because they don’t even know whether they’ll be re-elected.
One of the fundamental flaws of democracy is that it encourages politicians to make as much money as possible as fast as possible, because they don’t know how many chances they’ll get.
That’s a fundamental flaw of all forms of government.
It’s not the politicians, it’s the voters. Voters are dumb enough to kept re-electing the same twits repeatedly. We get the politicans we vote for.
The problem is that most voters get more from government than they pay into it. For them it makes perfect sense to vote for politicians who promise to raise other people’s taxes and hand it to them.
Meaning there is no solution?
Not so long as we allow people who don’t pay taxes to vote.
I highly agree that people not legitimately disabled, who have turned public aid into a multi-generation “family business” should be refused at the polls. Though it would be too expensive, I fear, to weed them out.
Most voters don’t have much of a choice. We do not have anything like a viable third party on the left or right. So everyone gets a choice of the lesser of two evils, depending on your point of view.
All the coal-fired powerplants projected to be built in coming years makes a mockery of the Paris Climate Accord. Emissions will never be reduced to the extent they claim is necessary to keep the Earth from overheating from CAGW.
It’s 10 degrees F outside right now, and my house heater is getting its energy from a good ole coal-fired powerplant.
In the distant future, when the climate grows colder, as it inevitably will, every damn lump of coal will be burned to to provide the heat and electricity.
When it comes down to saving the world from some imaginary climate hobgoblin or keeping his family alive through a brutal winter, a man and his society will choose to burn that coal. Every last kilogram of coal… if necessary.
“In the distant future,”
Maybe not that distant…. that is the real worry.
Is there enough time for countries like UK, Germany, Australia that have downgraded their REILABLE electricity supply, to build them back up, away from borderline reliability.
“distant” is a matter of perspective.
In 2060, I will be dead.
But that coal in the ground today will be likely be being burned in haste in 2060 if the Greenies get their way today on nuclear power and technology advancement for the middle class.
These days lots of “greenies” seem to be getting on board with nuclear as they begin to realize renewables will not cut it. It is the fossil fuelers who are not getting on board with nuclear.
As I understand it that future is thousands of years off, thanks to climate change
And I’ll burn all of the oil, gas, and coal that I can to keep it that way!!!
And for some reason, you think this is a bad thing.
“As I understand it that future is thousands of years off, thanks to climate change”
Not according to you and/or your ilk???
For example:
https://www.climaterealityproject.org/blog/perfect-storm-extreme-winter-weather-bitter-cold-and-climate-change
https://www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-cold-weather.htm
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earthtalks-global-warming-harsher-winter/
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/weather/why-climate-change-may-be-blame-dangerous-cold-blanketing-eastern-n834986
etc…
Griff, as I have told you before, when YOU qualify with “as I understand it” you are telling all of the readers (that know who you are) that the subsequent statement is complete garbage.
If necessary, we’ll all burn furniture and Wood panelling…..
Norwegian wood: isn’t it good?
We already burn whole forests as wood pellets and pump oil to power the ships to move the pellets across the Atlantic…and power the equipment to load and unload the ships…and heat and cool the lobbyists and policymakers to keep the pellet burning going. It’s the new carbon cycle.
Every “warmista” should have to go w/o fossil fuels and see how they manage w/o them – then see what tune they’re singing afterwards.
There have always been these ignorant lunatics but up until recently we listened to engineers and not hipsters. Engineers built this society but now our ‘governments’ seen to believe it was the hipsters.
CephusO. My Dad told me the same thing about fourty years ago. I wondered how he knew that and I took it lightly. Now I am sure of it.
We built this city,
We built this city,
On rock and roll
I bet solar works well covered in snow…… about as well as wind turbines covers with ice.
Isn’t one of the options for de-icing turbines, using a helicopter and spraying warm something on the blades?
solar works about 6 hrs in the winter, from 9 am to 3 pm, that is 6 hrs. In the summer, it works about 8am to 4 pm. 10 hours.
Not so good for the other 60% of the day. Solar sucks. Nothing can change that reality. Even batteries.
8 hours, not 10. Direct sunlight on the panels is what is needed. Summer time that is 10 hours.
The ultimate Green job.
Scraping snow off solar panels 🙂
Because of the low angle of the sun, even at max sun, those panels are only providing a fraction of their nameplate power. That’s assuming they aren’t covered in snow or ice.
AndyG55: There isn’t a lot of sunlight to be harvested in winter where snows. So it doesn’t make much difference if your solar panels are covered with snow for a few days. However, solar panels in some commercial installations in northerly locations can tip and follow the sun, so the snow often slides right off. The same is true for rooftop solar.
“Frank January 17, 2018 at 12:17 am
The same is true for rooftop solar.”
Bit tricky in a block of apartments.
Any flat surface is covered in ice each morning. How long does it take before that melts off?
I read that this December Germany averaged just 10 hours of sunshine. that is just 20 minutes per day. http://notrickszone.com/2018/01/03/dark-days-for-german-solar-power-country-saw-only-10-hours-of-sun-in-all-of-december/#sthash.htft9yZj.dpbs
Yesterday, I read that Moscow recorded just 6 mins of sunshine for the entire month of December. See: https://themoscowtimes.com/news/moscow-gets-6-minutes-of-sunlight-in-december-60192
Solar power has no meaningful role to play in high latitude countries, particularly those noted for their cloudiness.
Living in Hamburg Germany, I don’t agree with you Richard ! IT’S LESS !!!
Yes…
And that’s a spectacular fail, because Germany got huge heaps of wind energy during the same period…
But look at the solar figures for the summer and see 40% of German weekday power and more being covered on a regular basis
I live in Germany and inhale at the moment every ray of sunshine that I can get rid of. Many are not. And I live in the sunniest area. Nearby also have Pres. Trump’s German ancestors lived.
And for the time when the wind isn’t blowing, Germany imports power from it’s smarter neighbors. (At great expense I should add)
Mark, yes Germany often imports wind power from Denmark and is building a power line to import Norwegian hydro. That’s the way the (renewbale) power grid is supposed to work in europe.
However it also exports huge amounts of electricity, notably to France where up to 20 nuclear plants have been offline in recent times.
Here are the figures:
https://www.energy-charts.de/energy.htm?source=import-export&period=annual&year=2017
“And that’s a spectacular fail, because Germany got huge heaps of wind energy during the same period…
But look at the solar figures for the summer and see 40% of German weekday power and more being covered on a regular basis”
It is and always will be impossible to force the sun to shine when it isn’t, or the wind to blow when it doesn’t, to generate energy. If either scenario is true you have no options other than constantly depleting batteries.
The reverse is not true with coal or natural gas. It is always possible to use these resources to generate energy, whether on a small scale (to make burgers) or large scale (to heat thousands of homes).
Griff, you are nothing if not predictable.
Now you are trying to pretend that the only electricity Germany imports is also renewable.
Lies built upon lies.
Griff: I have a great deal for you on a car that runs 40% of the time in summer, somewhat less in winter. If it’s not running, you can rent a car from your neighbor, while still paying for the car I am selling you. It’s a terrific deal, just 25% above the cost of a car that runs year round, but the car I’m selling is green and says “I care” on the side.
Sheri, what we have in effect is a car which runs on one fuel in the summer and another in the winter, but doesn’t emit a substance harmful to the planet.
Griff said”what we have in effect is a car which runs on one fuel in the summer and another in the winter, but doesn’t emit a substance harmful to the planet.” Griff where on Gods green earth do you think the electricity your car uses come from. Here a link
it show only 15% comes from renewables and nearly half of it from hydro. So you are living in your myths that your car ” doesn’t emit a substance harmful to the planet.” Oh by the solar and wind return the energy it took to produce that at a rate of 1 to 1 of 1 to 1.5, so quite frankly they are fossil fuel driven also.
Solar works for me in my living room in the winter, because I open the blinds and the front door and let in the solar heat. That allows my furnace to not run, and since my little house is well-insulated, the temperature stays right around 73F. Winter Solar heat cuts both my gas bill and electric bill this way.
I also get some bodacious icicles hanging off my roof when the sun is heating it. Some are up to three feet long. 🙂
Same here! I did make a small fire this morning, but now that the sun is hitting the windows, I won’t need the furnace or fire for the rest of the day.
you win the bet: it works in the snow
https://www.theecoexperts.co.uk/does-snow-affect-output-solar-panels
Wow, proof that panel output doesn’t go to zero when there is a little bit of snow on them is now proof that solar panels aren’t impacted by snow.
Griff sure knows how to lay on the propaganda deep and thick.
Griff, you blunt object, I don’t have solar panels. I use my living room’s bay window as a heat collector. It only “works” when there is no cloud cover.
Pay attention, will you?
My friend who actually HAS panels and isn’t trying to sell people on them says heavy snow has to be removed and the output is effected. I really don’t care what the sellers say. They aren’t going to be sitting in the dark when the buyer’s panel is snow covered for days and the batteries are dead. Real life ain’t like the sellers tell you. Remember, they are just like the oil people—they want to be RICH too. It’s not the planet they care about—it’s their bottom line and retirement money.
I’ve read the article. They basically say that the output doesn’t go to zero so long as the layer of snow isn’t too thick.
Griff,
”However, after the snow the panels can work very efficiently by the reflection caused by the sun that is lying on the ground. It can even cause the panels to produce more electricity than normal when the sun is lying on the ground and the sun comes out after the snow storm.”
“ when the sun is lying on the ground“ ?? Do you even read this stuff before posting it?
Wow Griff. I have several panels around the farm. Want to know what the output is snow covered and 20 below? ZERO! Don’t believe everything you read young fella.
Reading this again, “CO2 is no more pollution than is water vapor,” statement is so true.
The GHG hoax is predicated on pseudo-science of CO2 as the primary GHG.
As for science and scientists:
Dr’s Trenberth, Schmidt, Hansen, Mann, Karl, … et al… you are all a freaking joke. And you will be treated as such in history.
That is, your name will be the butt of endless climate Jokes. Enjoy your legacy.
If activated charcoal (carbon) can purify water how can carbon be called a pollutant?
If botox can prevent migraines, how can botox be called a poison?
Arsenic can also prevent headaches.
Take enough arsenic and you will never have another headache.
MarkW: LOL!
Mark said Arsenic can also prevent headaches.Take enough arsenic and you will never have another headache.” The true of the matter without trace amount of arsenic in your body, you would be dead also. Human and animals need Arsenic to survive, again it the dose that counts! The same true for dihydrogen monoxide! Add in CO2 is necessary for most animal life on earth, and every carbon atom in your body came from CO2 it just as necessary as Arsenic.
Hands up everyone under the age of 35 who can remember sitting around a kerosene heater in the middle of a small closed lounge room.
Should be fun trying to heat a 350sq mt open plan house.
I dunno about that. What I do know is there are 800 MILLION people (Yes that is correct) in India, under 35, with degree level qualifications without a job to go to.
The current population of India is only 1.34 billion.
Are you claiming that 70% of India is under the age of 35 and not a single one of them has a job?
Patrick MJD: you say “there are 800 MILLION people in India, under 35, with degree level qualifications”
There are certainly 800 million people in India under the age of 35 (65% of a population of 1.3 billion, according to Google), but to suggest that all of them have degree level qualifications is absurd. It is thoughtless statements such as yours which give websites such as WUWT a bad name. Please try thinking before posting in future.
Roger, that was uncalled for.
That is actually a projection for the year 2030. It appears to be worldwide.
From India Today: “With India facing unemployment on a large scale, a United Nations’ special envoy for education, Gordon Brown recently released a report which states that more than 800 million young people graduating from schools by 2030 will not have the appropriate skills to land a job.”
I cannot find any reference to people having degrees and not finding work. The labor participation rate is about 50%, somewhat lower than the US. Unemployment rate around 3%.
“Sheri January 17, 2018 at 9:24 am”
Thank you Sheri. I was in a rush yesterday and forgot include the year 2030. That’s only 12 years away.
Chuckle. Merely using the term “the first Trump administration” is probably enough to cause apoplexy among all the right people as they suddenly think about the prospect of a second Trump administration. Yet they never seem to change their rhetoric that contributed so much to him winning in the first place, while still fantasizing about impeachment.
I’m fully in favour of modern, efficient, clean coal-fired power stations. However, my Welsh maternal grandfather was a coal miner (who died of alcohol and silicosis a few months before I was born) and his family grew up in the dirt and pollution of the local mine, and in the shadow of a slag heap up the side of the valley. This mainly after the post-WWII nationalisation and major improvement in the wages and conditions of the miners. I used to visit each year as a child, in the ’60s, and returned later, in the ’70s, and in the ’90s and this century to visit my uncle, and enjoy Wales and the Welsh (after the cruel destruction of the coal industry by Margaret Thatcher and her government).
In deep mining and strip mining, there need to be major advances in the health and safety of coal miners and other coal workers, and in environmental protection and clean-up from coal mining. See John Grisham’s “Gray Mountain” for a fact-based novel on these topics.
“Peter Lewis Hannan January 16, 2018 at 11:45 pm
…(after the cruel destruction of the coal industry by Margaret Thatcher and her government).”
Don’t forget the contributions of Wilson and Scargill in that destruction. Also, remember the family lives destroyed the night striking miners threw a concrete post over an overpass/bridge over a motorway that instantly killed the driver.
Mining technology, reclamation technology, and efforts to protect miners’ health and safety have changed since your grandfather worked in coal mines.
Mining:
https://www.worldcoal.org/coal/coal-mining
Reclamation:
https://mineralseducationcoalition.org/mining-minerals-information/reclamation-stories/
Miners Health and Safety:
https://www.msha.gov/
Most of the mines were closed before Thatcher took office.
The US strip mines are not much different than any construction site. Deep mining (underground) is still plagued with the problems of dust and black lung. They appear to be working on this, but so far solutions are not economical, not actually feasible, etc.
Many things in life are dangerous and dirty. Contruction, mining, logging, poultry farms, pig farms, etc. We can only do so much to make life safe.
(My husband worked 20 years in a strip coal mine.)
Work in general has gotten a lot safer in the last 50 years.
This is because we as a society have become wealthy enough that we are willing to spend the money needed to make things safer.
It had nothing to do with government mandates. Most of the time, government mandates tell people to do things they are already doing. Just be less efficient about it.
Historical fact based; certainly not modern fact based. There have been significant advances for safe mining across the mining spectrums; including underground and surface coal mines.
Claiming and playing 100 year old unsafe mining practices is irrational. Even reaching back to as recent as the 1950s ignores advances in mining safety and technology.
Claims which remind me of the “Pebble Mine” review, EPA interjected without authorization or responsibility as EPA made a grab for Army Corps of Engineers and Alaska responsibilities.
A review that read as a litany of 18th century mining abuses and failures without EPA ever addressing any modern technology or practices to keep the mine safe.
“with virtually no significant pollution: about the only thing that comes out of the stacks today are water vapour”
Water vapour you say?. Ah well, can’t have that now….Have to scrap them all now…
Well here in Australia we are about to become the Guinea Pigs of the hot weather issue.
South Australia and the Eastern States looks like they will get a forecast 5-7 days of hot days.
Not a Heat Wave in my experience but it will be called that.
Don’t worry though Elon’s Battery will save South Australia or will it??
That pesky Hazelwood Power Station would have been just the ticket if it hadn’t been closed last year!!
“nankerphelge January 16, 2018 at 11:56 pm
Not a Heat Wave in my experience but it will be called that.”
It already has been called that, as well as the couple of hot days the other week too when in reality, it’s just a warmer summer.
One example, near Ynyshir, where my mum, aunts and uncle grew up: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberfan_disaster?wprov=sfla1
I was at school in the next valley, sited beneath a coal tip, when Aberfan happened… I remember the men in the local shop who’d been over to help dig talking about it… my dad drove all the way from work near London, because the only news he had was a school under a coal tip had been hit…
Paul Driessen: “With modern coal-fired power plants, it can be used to generate very inexpensive electricity, with virtually no significant pollution: about the only thing that comes out of the stacks today are water vapor and carbon dioxide, the miracle molecule that helps plants grow and makes life on Earth possible.”
Unfortunately, the average coal power plant in the US is 35-years old and not necessarily “modern”. The average coal power plant in the US emits 4 lbs SO2 and 2 lbs NOx per mWh, down about 10-fold from the 1960’s, but this average is still almost 100X and 4X more than the best. Emission of particulates also varies widely. Then we have the issue of mercury, which bioaccumulates in the largest fish. World-wide, US emission of mercury isn’t a big problem, but world-wide coal is the source of about half of the mercury accumulating in fish. Health authorities warm children and pregnant women from regularly consuming some species of fish.
Finally, if CO2 does push climate change to unacceptable levels, burning coal releases 4X more CO2 per kWh than natural gas (which doesn’t have any of the above problems). The current low price of natural gas and the high costs of reducing emissions from coal has caused a shift away from coal. Then there is nuclear.
You describe the exact reason the politically motivated effective ban of modern coal fired power plants by Obama’s Eco-Nazi EPA should not have happened. As for the “if CO2 does push climate change” comment, sorry that is pure nonsense. It never has, and never will, drive the Earth’s temperature.
CO2 sure can drive the “need” for carbon taxes and cap-and-trade.
Unfortunately, the average coal power plant in the US is 35-years old and not necessarily “modern”. The average coal power plant in the US emits 4 lbs SO2 and 2 lbs NOx per mWh, down about 10-fold from the 1960’s, but this average is still almost 100X and 4X more than the best.”
Note the careful flavoring, distractions, straw men and dubious claims:
Age of the coal plant is immaterial. What matters is the technology installed along with maintenance of that technology..
From https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_09_01.html
The “Emissions from Energy Consumption at Conventional Power Plants and Combined-Heat-and-Power Plants total 2016 emissions calculate out to roughly 6.4 pounds SO2 per MWh and 5.8 pounds NO per MWh.
Now EIA.gov does list emissions by fuel source(s); but only as “Uncontrolled Emission Factors” which means they calculate the amount of sulfur the fuel contains then base the emission on that total. Emissions after exhaust stack scrubbers, catalytic units are not used.
Frank does not provide his sources; nor does he provide links to link where “the best” numbers are sourced from.
Then Frank introduces the dreaded and reviled mercury into the blame coal mix. Since, USA strives to minimize mercury emissions, Frank dredges up “world-wide coal” being the source for “about half of the mercury”.
Again, Frank fails to link to sources.
What is especially confusing is that since a majority of the coal plants world-wide are operated in countries that do not practice open book policies; making factual sources for his claims especially probematic.
It is of interest that the EIA does not list mercury amongst emissions from electrical generating plants.
Of course, Now that Frank has softened up his audience with specious fears and sophistry, Frank then drops the feared “climate change is caused by CO2” decades old egg.
Again, Frank fails to provide references to his claims.
A question does immediately arise; coal is sold by the ton, Natural gas is sold by the Mcf and MMcf (thousand cubic feet and million cubic feet)
Since CO2 emissions are carbon molecule dependent, I suspect that coal vs NG emissions are dependent upon a fuel’s available molecular carbon content, not comparing apples to orangutans; as in a ton of coal versus MMcf of natural gas.
Frank is correct that cheap easy natural gas availability has raised NG usage. But he forgets to mention the Obama’s Administration war on coal; literally trying to drive all coal plants out of business.
Serious business impacts that the industry is recovering from, before they get back to competing for cheap electricity generation.
Without impossible standards for coal exhaust scrubbers and coal emission; coal becomes an excellent fuel choice.
Nor does Frank mention that natural gas availability is dictated by pipeline access. No pipeline, no natural gas electricity plant.
Coal, can be shipped by bag, truckload and railcar load anywhere.
Since EPA is still getting ‘cleansed’ of imbedded activists and activism; no data directly from EPA is used.
For your listening pleasure, male voice choir of Welsh miners: https://youtu.be/r-PI_9dDHCg
Of course, the romanticism over tough guys coming up from the shaft covered in coal dust must be replaced with safe working conditions! That being implemented, we have a safe and dependable source of energy in coal, no doubt about that! Further, when dreaming of a green world we must not forget what the former UN climate boss (I do not now recollect her proper title) Christiana Figueres said: “The green movement does not care about the environment, its goal is to destroy capitalism”.
I don’t think there is anyway the tough guys can avoid being covered in coal dust. Coal is DUSTY. You can’t really filter it—the filter will clog off so quickly as to be impractical. There’s no vacuum system out there that works. Life’s messy. It just is.
I can’t find an image of the memorial to the miners who died in an explosion in the Ynyshir mine in the 1910s; I know it exists because my Uncle Ivor took me and my daughters to see it (it’s near a supermarket – check later ref.). Still, this is close, the price of coal: https://goo.gl/images/7CYx4p
I’m pretty sure my great uncle was in that one…
Is this it?
https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1695446
National Colliery 1905 disaster as listed:
http://www.welshcoalmines.co.uk/GlamEast/national.htm
The price of coal: Ed Miller, “The Prince of Darkness”. I have the lyrics in a Word document, with notes to help with the dialect, if anyone would like it.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/01/16/thermometer-worlds-coldest-village-breaks-temperatures-plunge/
Where art thou Global Warming? Still hiding in the deep ocean you minx?
I love it! Going out in extreme cold is a interesting experience. The inside of your nose freezes, beards freeze (if you’re male and have one), eye lashes, etc. These are hearty people!
As my wife says, “You can feel your boogers freezing.”
Only slightly OT, in the UK, government concerns about Diesel is strangling the car industry because of the alleged 40000 premature deaths caused by transport-created air pollution. Then I read that another 40000 premature deaths are caused by bio-fuelled heating systems. No wonder the man-in-the-street’s confused:
https://www.thegwpf.com/europes-green-energy-burning-is-killing-40000-people-per-year-new-study-claims/
It is co-fired coal/biomass plant, principally UK’s Drax causing the problem.
“The former coal plants accounted for the bulk of the negative health impacts, due to factors including their much greater size and generally higher levels of harmful sulphur emissions, which were partly linked to continued coal burning in co-fired sites”
Eliminate coal from the mix and stop the nonsense of burning importing wood pellets (which all green organisations oppose)
Don’t worry Ian, The Problem is being solved…
From an ongoing thread on ‘Renewable Energy’ message board..
From an actual supplier of wood pellets….
Meanwhile, the wood burning operation at Drax – get this – caught fire
and their biggest concern is their share price= Selfishness. Hypocrisy. Greed
UK Governmental Greed also sees their second largest builder of roads and rail (Carillion) go out of business.
Why.
Because their pension fund was bankrupt, the governmentally mandated thing that says you have to pay people huge amounts of money to do nothing while bloating the accounts & wallets of Government cronies in the City of London’s financial and legal districts.
Is it arguable that Malthus’s and Ehrlich’s predictions are actually playing out right now, in slow motion and not at all as visualised by Hollywood?
Despite wheels coming off the train, it manages to keep rolling until, one day, one final, tiny-little & overlooked thing, thing brings on the final wreck?
Thanks!
Even if we could stop the climate change that has been going on for eons, extreme weather events and sea level rise would continue, so no benefit would be realized. There is no real evidence that CO2 has any effect on climate and plenty of sceintific rational to support the idea that the climate sensivity of CO2 is zero. Hence if we could eliminate all CO2 in the Earth’s atmosphere it would serve to end life as we know it but would have no effect on climate. The AGW conjecture is based on only partial science and has too many holes to defend. The AGW conjecture is based upon the existance of a radiant greenhouse effect caused by trace gases with LWIR absorption bands. Such a radiant greenhouse effect has not been observed in a real greenhouse, in the Earth’s climate system, or anywhere else in the solar system. The radiant greenhouse effect is scince fiction. Hence the AGW conjecture is science fiction. There are many good reasons to be conserving on the use of fossil fuels but climate change is not one of them.
Actually, there are no good reasons to conserve fossil fuels. None. We should use those fuels which are the best available, and that usually means fossil. They are the fuels that give us the biggest bang for the buck, and are most reliable. Nuclear fits in there somewhere as well, but is more expensive.
There may be plenty of fossil fuel for the short term but consideirng the long term, the supply of fossil fuels is finite and eventually we will run out. We are already having to get our fossil fuels from less than ideal locations.
Willhaas. That “shortage” must be why Canadian gas and oil are selling at half the “world” price.
“and carbon dioxide, the miracle molecule that helps plants grow and makes life on Earth possible”
and which also causes climate change, which is the reason for US E coast exceptional cold at present.
A combination of gas and renewables (especially wind, especially offshore wind) can certainly provide for the US.
Right now it is cold in the UK and 24% of our power is coming from wind….
Still waiting for evidence that CO2 caused more than a tiny fraction of the warming over the last 170 years.
Still waiting for you to go look up the reams of evidence
When you can find any evidence, I will look at it. These reams only exist in your imagination.
1) It has warmed, however it started warming decades prior to the increase in CO2 levels.
2) Models aren’t evidence.
Mark, I’ve been asking Griffie for the same for close to two years now. Usually he disappeaers after being asked a question he can’t, or more likely doesn’t want to answer.
Humor us, Griff. Name the most compelling piece of evidence that shows that anthropogenic CO2 is causing any change in the climate. Just one.
“and carbon dioxide, the miracle molecule that helps plants grow and makes life on Earth possible”
and which also causes climate change, which is the reason for US E coast exceptional cold at present.
I’d much rather be just cold than both cold AND hungry…
I live in NC. On shore wind is not practical so most of our green energy is provided by solar. The land used is from cutting down forest or reclaimed wetlands near the coast. Sounds like a good trade off to me.
So if you were using just renewables, you’d be frozen to death by now………
Dont worry my friend, because, within 50 years the world will be run by robots and the pressing problem will relate to the law of murder and or manslaugher if you switch them off.
Thank you Griff
“and carbon dioxide, the miracle molecule … and which also causes climate change, which is the reason for US E coast exceptional cold at present.”
Now that is REALLY funny!
So next winter when it’s even colder (as the current solar minimum bottoms out) will that have been caused by CO2 as well?
Why don’t you share your secrets with us? And what’s your prediction for next winter?