Plastic is so cool! “Plastic chunks on Arctic ice show how far pollution has spread.” Ohhhhhh noooooooo!!!

Guest ridicule by David Middleton

The Grauniad: The gift that keeps on giving!

OhNoooo

Yes… I added Mr. Bill to the image.  And I replaced the Grauniad image with a NOAA image… just in case the photographer is touchy about fair use of his work. 

A British-led expedition has discovered sizeable chunks of polystyrene lying on remote frozen ice floes in the middle of the Arctic Ocean.

The depressing find, only 1,000 miles from the north pole, is the first made in an area that was previously inaccessible to scientists because of sea ice. It is one of the most northerly sightings of such detritus in the world’s oceans, which are increasingly polluted by plastics.

A team of scientists drawn from the UK, US, Norway and Hong Kong, headed by marine biologist Tim Gordon of Exeter University, said the discovery confirmed just how far plastic pollution has spread. It has prompted fears that plastic waste is flowing into the Arctic as the ice melts because of climate change. The thaw is simultaneously releasing plastic that has long been trapped in the ice.

[…]

The Grauniad

Honestly… I stopped reading the article right there.  I’m sure that the article goes on to provide a logical explanation… But… After that headline and first three paragraphs, I was already  going into a full-fledged Tim Allen grunt fest.

The area was “previously inaccessible to scientists because of sea ice” and “plastic waste is flowing into the Arctic as the ice melts because of climate change. The thaw is simultaneously releasing plastic that has long been trapped in the ice.”  So… The plastic somehow got into an ice-free Arctic, only to be subsequently frozen in ice and then released as the ice melted?

Well… I guess since plastic dates back to the Medieval Warm Period… Oh wait… Plastic only dates back to the 1860’s…

I suppose the plastic could have drifted into the ice-free Arctic during the 1930’s…

Or, maybe ice isn’t so impenetrable to plastic.

While the Arctic sea ice may have been impenetrable” to “scientists” due to the sea ice that was supposed to have vanished in 2013… Schist (not the rock) crosses the fracking Arctic all of the time, irrespective of sea ice conditions.

Driftwood takes the long route from the Pacific to the Atlantic because it follows the prevailing circulation patterns. The transit time from the Bering Strait to the Labrador Sea is about 6 years.

So… It shouldn’t be either shocking or depressing that ocean currents treat plastic no differently than they treat driftwood.

Let’s hear it for PLASTIC!!!

The planet can handle plastic just as well as its handled all that other schist that it’s had to handle over the past 4.5 billion years.

Any and all sarcasm was purely intentional.

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197 thoughts on “Plastic is so cool! “Plastic chunks on Arctic ice show how far pollution has spread.” Ohhhhhh noooooooo!!!

  1. Swapping out the textures from DOOM and replacing them with Tim Allen actually heightened the science involved in this Observer article.

      • Clair, the spelling Grauniad is a traditional joke at the muttipliticy of spelling mistakes in the Guardian.

      • I think Clair was editing herself. However this was indeed an Observer article. The Observer is basically the “Guardian on Sunday”. Though they share the same web site guardian.co.uk
        and supposed “Observer” articles show THE GUARDIAN in big blue letters at the top of the screen they try to pretend that this is a different title and any complaint about inaccuracies or false reporting will get sent back saying “not us” if you send them to Readers’ Editor guardian.readers@guardian.co.uk

        It’s often hard to tell what is supposed to be Observer without checking what day it is.

      • This particular article is even more stupid than David suggests, since there is absolutely no evidence that this bit of plastic had be frozen in ice at all let alone “for many years” as claimed.

        1. It could have just drifted and then blown on the top of this ice flow two weeks ago.
        2. It could been frozen in last years and melted out two weeks ago.

        This is not like a mummified Neanderthal popping out of a glacier and thus no reason to like this long term melting or climate change, be it human or natural change.

        In short it is total greenschist.

      • Looked at the Grauniad’s article. So it is plastic that has been trapped in the ice for a long time that they are worried about. (Granted Polystyrene AKA styrofoam) but interestingly, what are the “Scientists” using in the shipboard image?? Plastic! Just how did that styrofoam get up there 5 or 6 years ago to be trapped in the ice? Probably blew off the deck of a scientific research vessel.

    • If people would just stay the hell out of the Arctic Ocean, and not take all their chic designer bottle waters up there with them, there wouldn’t be any junk pile up there.

      G

    • but is seasonally melts MORE because of climate change.

      Open water extended further north in the Beaufort sea than ever before this summer, for example.

      Really David, this is a very poor effort: the point made is that the increased area of melt/open water allows plastic to blow/drift further into the arctic each summer, where it freezes over the winter into the ice.

      We’re heading for an arctic ice free in summer… not all year round.

      • So they the predictors—who have been wrong so many times no one even listens to them anymore. Crying “wolf” over and over is not at all persuasive.

      • Griff never gives up this mantra, no matter what the ice actually does.
        Then again, it’s not like he’s data driven.

      • Which is only true if you can prove climate change – excuse me – man made climate change – exists. But as I have pointed out over at the Deplorable Climate Science Blog you actually have no proof of any unusual warming at all. What you do have is hundreds of new climate measuring stations and so forth that have come on line since 1990 while hundreds of others apparently went off line. That is where the incredible warming comes from. It comes from purposefully or stupidly (either one works) changing the basis of measuring the so called global average temperature drastically between the past and the present. That is of course scientific malfeasance or ineptitude. You decide, either way it amounts to the same thing.

        And as you have personally seen from Tony’s blog there are many articles from news papers and magazines along with personal accounts from expeditions of the “catastrophic” arctic melt and imminent collapse of glaciers from Greenland to Norway from the 1930’s.

        Any and all temperature records from locations where the measurements have been maintained consistently of sufficiently a length of time – say 1900 to 2010 – show the warming trend into the 1930’s is exactly the same or larger than the warming trend into the 1990’s. In other words, there really isn’t anything new. Those stations which meet that criteria are small in number. The World Historical Climate Record only contains 30 records of sufficient length, and most of those have moved location two or even three times. They have a nice record of those moves in their text data.

      • Griff lies as usual since he has been shown repeatedly that the decline trend has stopped since 2007,this year it bottomed out at 4.62 Wadhams, which is higher than last year and the year before……

        Here it is AGAIN for the perpetually dishonest Griff: Notice that it is going back up now.

        Get it through your head, it is NOT declining anymore!

      • So Griff, how do you justify the $billions wasted on trying to change an ever changing climate instead of cleaning up the real pollution, like plastics and other human debris. This is the real problem with you and your kind, wasting money chasing fiction when reality is right in your face.

      • MarkW said: “Griff never gives up this mantra, no matter what the ice actually does.
        Then again, it’s not like he’s data driven.”

        That’s a laugh of the day, coming from a guy who never posts supporting links.

      • Effschist, Griff, please save me from your wit. Plastics don’t effing care if there is less or more open water in between. Polystyrene may be pushed by wind over ice, so it cares even less.

      • “We’re heading for an arctic ice free in summer… not all year round.”

        roflmao.

        You mean like during most of the first 7000+ years of the Holocene.

        There’s a LONG way to go before it drops down that far, Its still only a little bit below the highest its been in 10,000 years

        But you KNOW that, don’t you.. Your climate change denial runs very deep, doesn’t it griff.

      • The article also reads that this is plastic being released from new melting of Older Ice. The plastic has been there for a while and has only been just released from current melting.

      • OMG Griff give it a rest you were wong all year long about the arctic and everyone knows it, if you really believe your BS take the bet and let me know what year we will be ice free in the summer, otherwise just go away your are making a fool of your self

      • Guys, this is a false flag operation. You are being played. Scott Pruitt told Marc Morano to send Ms Griff to skeptical sites and say these things.

      • Chris, you are the one who should pay more attention here since Griff didn’t post any links,while Chaamjamal did,who was talking about seasonal change.

        Griff didn’t counter anything Chaamjamal brought up, just regurgitate the same baloney he has been saying all year. MarkW sees this at another blog where Griff make the same baloney comments on Sea Ice levels,that is why he wrote like that.

      • As you know Griff, I am one of your biggest fans but comedy is tough.

        Have you ever thought of finding new material? It just might help your comedy career to move forward. As it is you seem to be stuck in the ice like those maroons who got stuck at the ice free antarctic in their ship of fools. They needed the assistance of icebreakers which then got stuck as well.

        Don’t let your career get stuck in the ice. Change course before it is too late!

  2. On a related topic, I see that that Vancouver Aquarium (along with a group called Ocean Wise) is involved in an ocean pollution research project.

    http://www.vanaqua.org/act/research/ocean-pollution-research-program

    They are looking into various pollutants including urban and industrial effluents, runoff from forestry and agriculture, “climate change”, etc. and what they call microplastics. A quick search though the page at the link above for “microplastics” seems to indicate that the researchers are very concerned about this (and climate change, of course) as they see microplastics as some kind of global pollutant. I have my doubts, as it seems microplastics is just the buzz-word-scare of the day, but I do not want to condemn the kind of fundamental research involved in this project.

    So, are microplastics a threat, or just another phantom menace?

    • Microplastics is the term they use to explain when they can’t find the giant plastic islands floating around the ocean that they expect. Which kind of sucks if you think about it. A giant plastic island would be teaming with life for sure and be a great new habitat to study. Never could understand why something that doesn’t break down and is inert would be a concern to anyone, K-cups pre-made condos for small animals what’s the problem we are just making their lives a little easier. But of course since the damn plastics actually break down in the environment and get eaten by all kinds of fun loving critters my dreams are dashed as usual.

      • Plastics are often discussed by greens as though they aren’t commensurate with life. I have a plastic IBC out the back yard with a plastic air-hose into it pumping air from a plastic pump powered by a small plastic enclosed solar cell into water which keeps a bunch of fish alive and happy. Above it is a plastic solar LED lamp which attracts bugs at night to provide the fish with food. That’s a designed system.

        In the wild I’ve seen flotsam in the oceans, beneath which small fish and invertebrates seek shelter and make their homes – none of the organisms seem fussed whether the material sheltering them is plastic or biotic in origin.

        It seems to me many of us particularly those who claim to care about the planets other inhabitants are too anthropomorphic in our views about other life forms on this rock and can’t comprehend how the heck other things see our junk. A human looks at a rubbish tip and screams ‘FILTH!” .. bacteria, fungi, rats, mice, gulls, roaches, beetles, cats, worms, flies, wasps all look at it and scream ‘DINNER!”.

      • Yeah, right. As someone who regularly travels to places that are both remote and once beautiful, I find the fact that they are covered in plastic trash totally disgusting and my number one on the hit parade – literally. I’d love to hit any SOB that throws plastic crap into the ocean or on land-with a real sharp ax.
        The oceans in Asia are swimming in the stuff. The cactus of Central and south American are covered in plastic bags. Africa even worse so I’m told.
        I was looking at a trip to Koh Rong in Cambodia in Nov. but their best beaches are just as full of shit as anywhere else so why bother.

      • Sounds like a good job for the millions of non-violent convicts on this planet, their sentence can be tallied by the number of pounds of trash they pick up.

    • Quite frankly I am surprised that they didn’t find the ubiquitous flip-flops littering the ice. Polystyrene (Styrofoam) has been with us since the 1940’s. Neoprene (foam rubber) a bit less, but both last a long time. The difficult part is that as they degrade they break apart into small (<2mm dia) pieces which, when freely floating, resemble edible sea life to fish that then ingest them.

    • From the many research articles I have read, there is very strong evidence that micro plastics are a huge problem that affects a lot of sea life ftom disrupting hormones and growth up to Marco plastics that choke and trap birds and sea life. It doesn’t take much research to find this. Besides, what fools thought It was a good idea to dump our wastes into the worlds latgest food source.

      Any thinking person should no better than to sh!t in his own water supply.

      I worked and studied “practical” environmental enginneering. We are doing somewhat better in the developed countries (except for microbeads) but in the endeveloped worrld you can practically walk across the harbours on floating plastic debris.

      In the 60’s and60’s, it was standard practice for ships to dump all their garbage off the stern at about 3 or 4 in the morning.

      On one Atlantic crossing of 7 days, there was NOT ONE DAY that I didn’t see floating garbage.

      I am NOT a raving greenie. My politics are strongly right of centre. I worked in a private EMPLOYEE owned engineering company and at times was the largest or second largest investor. I also started up and ran some other small companies and a small family farm, Ranching and land land and water course stewardship has been in my family for over a hundred years.

      People should do some research before making gratuitous comments.

      Throwing garbage/plastics in the oceans, harbours, rivers, and other watercourses by unthinking people is a problem IMHO.

      Many here my “dis” my views. But before you do, you might want to at least do a little research.

      Have a good day.

      Wayne Delbeke from Oilberta. Yeah we make plastics. So use them responsibly and recycle.

      Thanks

      • Someone else mentioned microbeads as being a particularly pernicious polluting plastic. It sounds like something worth researching, when I have some spare time.

      • Dear Wayne,
        I fully support your views on plastic pollution. I am a CAGW sceptic of the first order. When I put out my trash then over 85% of it is plastic. I became concerned about plastic pollution when there was a study two,or three years ago finding plastic microfibres in the Antarctic Ocean and were found in krill. It was suggested that the main source was the result of washing clothes.
        Humans are unlikely to have any significant effect on climate but we can reduce plastic pollution. And taxation is not the solution.

      • The purpose of this post was to ridicule the Grauniad article… Not to endorse dumping plastic into the oceans.

      • For a back yard do-it-yourself “science” experiment, leave a large “degradable” plastic trash bag outside in a confined area. Over time it will continue to break down into smaller and smaller pieces, but rarely, at least from appearances, into “rotted” forms. I would assume that the pieces eventually become a non-visible microscopic mix which in the real world of mixed plastics would be a kaleidoscope of mixed colors and shapes. Perhaps an art form to some, or just trash to be ignored to others who could care less. Unfortunately, also inescapable, since there is never enough concern (even here) to render real solutions.

      • David

        No one is endorsing dumping plastics in the ocean or any other trash, but like most other issues the greens, who by the way are the first ones to throw litter all over the place, have blown these issues out of proportion too. The bio system handles trash and plastics the same way it handles everything else, it adapts to it and uses it. I am not endorsing throw trash all over the place because to me it is ugly, gross and removes the beauty of nature that I love and want to enjoy, but I am not so sure that nature cares one way or the other.

      • What is the proposed mechanism by which plastic particles disrupt hormones? Do animals have vats of solvents capable of breaking down the plastics? Or internal cracking plants? Just asking.

      • How can they not expect to find large chunks of polystyrene in the ocean? It’s used as flotation for many things (floating docks, trap floats, etc). That chunk could very well be debris from the Japanese tsunami in 2011. .

      • Sorry, not meant to be under this post.

        However, since it did appear here, this video reminds me of how alarmists think.

      • like cruise ships, tankers, etc aren’t loaded with it….and don’t dump their trash overboard when no one is looking

  3. David: very entertaining post! Thank you.

    And thanks for your thoughtful post re lukewarmers. Meant to comment there, but the thread was already miles long…. ;-]

    Keep up the good work! Me, I got blocked at Wikipedia (again), for attempting to defend Ross McKitrick against some yahoo smearing him as a “Climate Denier.” And a Christian! You can’t make this stuff up:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ross_McKitrick#Reverting_.22denial.22_for_.22skeptic.22_in_lead

    • Wkipedia… It’s like the Afghanistan of the Internet.

      I was very surprised that very few, if any, Warmunists attacked my defense of Lukewarmerism.

      • David,

        They can’t. There are currently only two points of view to them…their side, and DENIERS. Until the Powers that Be send out a formal dismissal of this foreign (to them) position and terminology, along with how many Climate Change Denial Bingo points the term “lukewarmer” is worth, they can only gnaw on their hangnails frantically while they wait for instructions. ;)

      • I’ve always been amused by the viciousness with which some defend their belief that CO2 must have no impact on climate.
        They seem to feel that admitting that CO2 can have an impact makes the warmists stronger, therefor it can’t be permitted.
        Which in the end is as political a position as anything held by the warmists themselves.

    • Wikipedia is so politicized on climate issues you can imagine you are at 70’s and trying to talk to communists – impossible. CCCP is great and Russians good.

  4. Okay, sarc_on: Here in South Florida we keep the exploding population of sea turtles under control by dumping empty plastic bags overboard our drug-fueled mega yachts for the purpose of watching Sea Turtles gulp them down thinking that they’re jellyfish. Sounds to me like someone has been trying to pull a similar prank on Arctic Penguins, but the do-gooder Greenies, who I will not insult because it is their “city-snuff” habit that fuels our mega-yachts, have made the mistake of taking Styrofoam coolers to the arctic, then likely abandoning them on the ice when they find out that their beer is already frozen. I further imagine that maybe one of them had an idea for a study, then counted all the debris they saw as the backtracked back out of the arctic. “Wow man, we dumped those beer cans on that chuck of ice three weeks ago and they’re still there! We have to warn the world what is happening to the Arctic!”

  5. Is there a prize for the year’s most scientifically illiterate news report ?

    Is there a journalistic equivalent of the Ig-Nobel Prize?

    If so, Jamie Doward and this piece of drek from the Grauniad is going to be the huge favorite.

    • Not difficult to find this sort of juvenile stuff with fancy language, such as “cross-ecosystem forage” and “putative” for supposed, as news these days. Looks like granite, do they know the difference? As an example with such language, it is easy (have done it, also commercial method) to attract alligators with dead fish, bread, etc. When they find them up that way it will be something. Or even Kansas where they also apparently don’t do much homework.

      http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/09/american-alligator-sharks-predators-stingrays/

      “It’s particularly surprising, says study leader, ,,, an ecologist at Kansas State University, because alligators are known as freshwater predators.” Might make more sense for Kansas, no, not really because the word ‘not’ belongs in front of surprising, among other errors, and in Louisiana occasional in Gulf. Paper might be interesting, however, should check if they found plastic, or even granite, or James Bond movies, or Vaughn Glasgow’s SOCIAL HISTORY OF THE AMERICAN ALLIGATOR where the legends are separated out and he mentions that they eat gar. Only first page available where they cite a 1977 paper with this title–“Alligator diets in relation to marsh salinity,” and an earlier one (date uncertain) “The foods and feeding habits of alligators from fresh and saline environments in Louisiana,” but also state “…are now known to frequent brackish and estuarine…habitats….”

      Modern publication methodology seems to be to throw in lots of citations, but don’t read them, along with the editors.

  6. There are now so many ‘expeditions’ in the Arctic by teams all decked out with plastic parkas, plastic insulated boxes, bags, bottles, implements tents, etc. (wonderful stuff, made from oil and gas don’t ya know). We’ve had a German icebreaker-assisted research vessel transecting the Arctic about 7-8yrs ago to investigate global warming(?) – sailors dump stuff, lose stuff in the wind, etc. Every item should have a trace content of, say, rubidium that goes into the Arctic.

    Because of past glories, we get a traffic jamb of worthless British expeditions. Wacky Wadhams who believes he is a target for assassination by sceptics because of his ice-free progs every 5yrs (I’d be worried about my warming colleagues were I he!) even gets to go in a submarine to check out the ice.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/aug/21/arctic-will-be-ice-free-in-summer-next-year

    Now, I’m not in favour of jettising non-food into the sea or anywhere for that matter and they rightly remark this pollution, but hungry for evidence of disappearing ice, they blame it on global warming! Blame it on the polluters, like this:

    https://www.sayanythingblog.com/entry/video-nodapl-environmentalists-left-behind-hundreds-truck-loads-garbage/

    • And don’t exclude the dozens of scientific and tourist trans-polar voyages by Russian icebreakers, as well as their yearly resupply missions to Arctic Sea coastal outposts.

    • I’d bet that most, if not all, of the people responsible for that garbage lean left politically. And then there was the landfill-sized garbage left over from the DAPL protest by environmentalists that took weeks and hundreds of thousands of $ to clean up, all paid for by taxpayers.

      • That indian video is pure mythology andridiculous. The Standing Rock reservation encouraged and enabled the environmentalists who didn’t give a sh!t for, and trashed, the public land next to their reservation. The reservation was the big loser, not because they had to pay for cleaning up the land (you and I pay for that), but because gamblers couldn’t get to the casino on the reservation because the North Dakota DOT closed a bridge on the highway leading to the casino after the environmentalists damaged the bridge by setting fires on it.

      • Stupid is as stupid does. It just would be nice if some of the stupidity was actually broadcast back to the morons so that some of them might learn.

      • Griff, events like beachwatch are great places to virtue signal, establish green bonafides and pick up like-minded chicks (or guys if you are inclined that way). All that it costs is a day of your time.

      • Sheri
        Regarding the Crying Indian..”Iron Eyes Cody”

        This excerpt is from Snopes

        That “crying Indian,” as he would later sometimes be referred to, was Iron Eyes Cody, an actor who throughout his life claimed to be of Cherokee/Cree extraction. Yet his asserted ancestry was just as artificial as the tear that rolled down his cheek in that television spot — the tear was glycerine, and the “Indian” a second-generation Italian-American.

        Iron Eyes Cody was born Espera DeCorti on 3 April 1904 in the small town of Kaplan, Louisiana. He was the son of Francesca Salpietra and Antonio DeCorti, she an immigrant from Sicily who had arrived in the USA in 1902, and he another immigrant who had arrived in America not long before her

        Great acting job though

      • I know Bob.
        It’s like the Dos Equis beer “Most interesting Man”
        In 2006 when the ad campaign began, Jonathan Goldsmith, a Jewish American from New York played the part. He retired and was sent to Mars. Now, the new “Most Interesting Man” is Augustin Legrand from France. It would appear that Dos Equis can’t seem to hire Hispanic actors to be the most interesting man with the Hispanic accent.

  7. Speaking of driftwood – up until a couple of years ago, the accepted guess as to the number of trees on earth was around 400 billion. Then Thomas Crowther from Yale looked again and thought he saw 3 trillion trees and we had a new best guess. https://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/09/03/trillions-and-trillions-of-trees-make-that-giant-sucking-sound-of-co2-from-the-atmosphere/

    If we can not even count the trees in the forest, how can we draw any meaningful conclusions about ‘plastic pollution’ from the observation of one piece of styrene. You can only make assumptions about how it got there. Real scientists don’t assume their assumptions are true. They do experiments to prove their assumptions are either true or false. If they can see the forest they ought to count the trees. Don’t make assumptions, conduct a census.

    • If we can not even count the trees in the forest, how can we draw any meaningful conclusions about ‘plastic pollution’ from the observation of one piece of styrene.

      I thought everyone knew, ….. it’ quite easy to do.

      And it’s the way that the DNR Officers in various States determine the resident Whitetail deer population.

      They drive around the “backroads” in their big SUVs during daylight hours, ….. counting the “number of deer” they observe eating in the fields and pastures …….. and then multiply that “number” by ten (10) …… to determine how many deer are hiding in the woods.

      So, one (1) piece of styrene observed floating on a chunk of ice in the Arctic …… equals ten (10) pieces of plastic trash that are hidden from view, …… but located somewhere in the same vicinity of the Arctic.

      But when counting Polar Bears, the DNR Officers employ a “one (1) for one (1)” counting scheme.

  8. As with everyone else and not taking that seriously, I have an idea we can float

    How about we claim humanity is building a floating plastic raft to give the Polar bears somewhere to rest so they don’t drown. These sort of dangerous reports are harming our attempts to save the polar bears.

  9. People live in the Arctic. Did the author’s of the story not know that. Those people do all the things normal people do including using plastics for a large variety of reasons and just like everywhere else some of those plastics will end up in the ocean. Why is this news?

      • Yes, your post is funny, but it is quite sad that the authors of the original story felt this to be newsworthy. Perhaps I am relying on old standards of what journalism was meant to be. Today “public interest” is the bulk of what I see in main stream media and that essentially means fluffy, insubstantial pieces about feel good or feel scared anecdotes of no real importance to how the world we live in functions.

  10. “Sizeable chunks” of polystyrene. Well, that sounds like insulation. In a warming arctic less will be required. By the way, that’s an example of negative feedback.

  11. Plastic is not an alien substance—we make it from what is on Earth. We combine and refine, and, voila, plastic. Elephants mash all the vegetation in area, some animals graze an area down and leave, beavers cut down trees and build dams. Why is it people are the only ones blamed for changing the planet? Everything that lives on it does. I’m not for spreading plastic litter, or any litter, around, but I can’t see it being a horrendous threat spoken of in the same tone as one speaks of threats from other planets.

  12. it’s worse than we thought – the Arctic has run out of ice, all that plastic looks like ice from satellites!

  13. What a surprise! They are still finding trash left up in the Arctic by Pen Hadow, Ann Daniels and Martin Hartley after their failed Catlin Arctic survey.

  14. It annoys me to no end when somebody just tosses their cigarette on the ground anywhere they might be, after they are finished smoking it. The Earth can probably handle it, but my sense of respect for public spaces cannot. So, … I admit to not liking the idea of plastic in the Arctic or on the backs of turtles. It looks trashy, and we humans can exercise more respect than that.

    It’s not so much about gloom and doom as it is about good manners.

    Oh nooooooooooooooo, a dissenting voice !!

    • Your post is a welcome respite from the continuous snark about pollution displayed by most commenters on this thread.

      • +1000. I was taught as a 6 year old, now 65 years ago by my father – rancher and outfitter to leave no trace. But then we were close to the land. Then came the urban campers leaving trash everywhere. Some oil workers have a litter problem BUT one trip to a drill site where they provide lots of recycleing and garbage containers usually straightens out the less responsible workers. I live in a high oil and gas development area. They are responsible neighbours. Some of the urban weekenders – not so much.

      • It is amazing how trolls have to lie about what others are saying in order to convince themselves that they are still relevant.
        Nobody is defending true pollution. The ridicule has been towards those who have to lie about pollution in order to score political points.

    • Have to agree that we can do better than this,but using climate change as the battering ram will not work, It has to be some other way to get people to stop trashing areas. Leave no trace,pack it out,when camping is a good concept that should be applied everywhere else.

    • So, aesthetically speaking, which would you prefer to look at: … plastic or plants? … the colors and geometry of a turtle shell, or a plastic, drink-holder lattice tossed over a turtle shell?, … vastness separated from human trash or vastness interrupted by a floating plastic beer cooler?

      Again, not so much about gloom and doom as about aesthetics and respect for what other people have to look at.

      Ohhhhhhhh nooooooooo, somebody with taste !

      • Ohhhhhhhh Nooooooooo, a virtue signaler who thinks they’re better then every one else because they take this Ohhhhhhhh Soooooooo Srsly.

        You want to know why this kind of thing brings out so much snark? It’s because anyone not blinded by left wing angst knows that the west has done more and worked harder to reduce waste and pollution then anywhere else. Compare the coasts of anywhere in the US to places in Asia or Africa. Heck, compare then to Paris. We’ve learned that lesson, and taken it to heart.

        Of course be ‘we’ I mean conservative leaning people and those over 35. The vast majority of Leftist Millennials I’ve seen seem to think it’s somebody elses job to clean up after them. Much like how they all seem to think it’s someone elses job to pay for everything.

        Just one more ‘benefit’ to socialist indoctrination.

        ~¿~

      • schitzree

        Is there such a thing as negative virtue signaling by being overly snarky? (^_^) Is being snarky about pollution a virtue? … the anti-virtue to the virtue of preferring that we take our trashy ways seriously, even though, I totally agree, that we have done a pretty good job of keeping things clean so far, but we can’t get slack because of this, relax, and think that’s all there is to it.

        If we don’t separate this trashy behavior out from the crazy climate debate and look at it in its own light, then we are just as guilty of alarmist conflation as the warmists.

        But, if you’re okay with it, then have fun in trashlandia:

    • We can all pck up the waste from the stuff we consume. People thoughtlessly throw down On to the pavement everything from used pizza boxes to plastic bags. There are many who think it ok to throw the remains of their McDonald’s from their moving cars onto the road.or just consume it when parked, open the door and throw it into the gutter.

      None of that is ok and if there is evidence of humans garbage blowing around the arctc that is not something that is ok either

      Tonyb

      • Tony, when you talk about the remains from MacDonalds, do you mean the packaging or the alleged food?

        Surely you aren’t suggesting the people actually ingest the alleged food. Throwing it away is a very sensible act. On the other hand maybe it is better not to leave it where wildlife can ingest the stuff.

      • Forrest

        It might make more sense to eat the packaging, it probably is better for you then the “food”, We use to call AFS in school Advanced Food Substitute.

      • Forrest

        No obviously I didn’t mean they actually ate the food substitute inside the packaging :)

        Seriously, having thought about it more, McDonald discarded packaging invariably contains a fair amount of unfinished food. Whereas I have never seen a discarded pizza box containing any uneaten pizza.Curious that

        tonyb

      • Actually, McD’s packaging is 100% paper, therefore totally biodegradable. No styrofoam, no plastic coated paper, not even any wax coated paper. Just plain paper and cardboard.

  15. Funny you post this. The entirety of the “Great Pacific Plastic Island” is based off of C.J. Moore’s “research”.
    (Just as Hansen started off the CAGW).

    Delve into that farce. It’s a hell of a rabbit hole.

    • I think it’s possible that we can get too comfortable with our trash.

      This is NOT a climate change issue. I’m not conflating it with that, be aware. I don’t like trash, and I don’t like trashy people who display trashy disrespect for places that other people have to look at and visit.

      I’m actually bothered by trash in the Arctic, just as I am bothered by trash in the Pacific, just as I am bothered by trash in my local park. It’s as though people are so exhausted from carrying a 32 oz drink into a park, and doing all those bicep curls to drink it, and use all that energy to walk into the park, that they have no energy left to hold the weight of the EMPTY cup in their hands or go through the torturous discomfort of gripping the EMPTY cup, as they undertake the long, long, long, challenging journey to a friggin’ garbage can twenty feet away to dispose of the damn thing properly.

    • What lies, Mark W,

      I merely point out a preference for not being trashy. I detest melding the climate debate with the debate over how to handle our trash. … two separate issues.

      I know of the great strides that the USA has made in improving air and water quality. That’s not the issue. The issue is thinking that we can just accept trashy behavior. If we can proclaim a need to clean up science for the sake of climate truth, then we can proclaim a need to keep cleaning up our garbage and not give the trashies one damn inch to junk up the planet. Otherwise, these people/companies keep relying on “virtue signalers” like me to walk behind them and pick up their shit.

      • Robert, + a million. Folks who haven’t ever left the US or Canada should make a short trip to Mexico sometime, the difference will hit you like a freight train. Drive up the Pacific coast between Cabo San Lucas and Pescadero. Trash everywhere.

        I remember the US in the 60’s and it wasn’t any different, then there was a serious effort to get people behind not littering. We really did clean up our act and it’s not that hard. People just need to care.

  16. >only 1,000 miles from the north pole

    Probably litter left behind by one of those stunt trips to the North Pole that stop short because it’s too cold.

  17. Well, as the most arch-“denier” (and someone who enjoyed the Middleton article and the snarkiness), it has to be said that plastic is a curse, and perhaps it should be a real concern.

    I cannot be the only one on the thread who recalls the world before “mass plastic”. Remember when most packaging was brown paper, heavy kraft paper, or cardboard?

    Ghastly litterbugs might not put it in a bin, but two days in the rain and even the heaviest packaging was starting to fall apart and biodegrade. Plastic not so much…

    Frankly if the time, money and BS that has been expended on CACA had been focused on plastic, the oceans, rivers and countryside would be far better off than it is today.

    Only problem is as CACA dies as a scare to herd the sheeple, I suspect all the usual suspects are going to jump on the “plastic bandwagon”, just as they did on the “Ozone Hole bandwagon” before CACA, and we will learn WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE from plastic poisoning…

    Strewth, save us from Lefty cretins.

      • Agree. But on balance plastic may be more insidious as it breaks down over time to micro-plastic. It tends to get in everywhere – what the effect of it might be on anything I don’t know, but I’m sure the usual suspects will drum it up into a major danger in due course.

        In many instances “glass, aluminium and various other products” are losing or have lost their place in the packaging/product handling/logistics train to types of “tough” plastics. While I freely concede I do not know what the lifespans/degrading rate might be of these, I suspect it could be a very long time too.

        Glass or aluminium don’t tend to float around or blow around, getting in absolutely everywhere as much as plastic does. Still a shame to have them littering up the place.

        The unsightly masses of plastic which can be found on many reefs around the world are an avoidable blight. Ditto for almost any place on land, even some relatively wild and remote ones. Does plastic cause lasting harm while it degrades? I don’t know, but I’d prefer not to choke on plastic when surfing or diving, or come across it caught in trees, hedges and fences.

        Never had that problem in the days before plastic packaging became ubiquitous…just had to watch out you didn’t cut your feet on some moron’s beer bottle/can, idly thrown over his shoulder or out of a car.

  18. Speaking of plastic, I’m a big fan of it, when used to best effect. But I’ve noticed, over the years, that some things break a lot faster than they once did, because critical components in critical areas of stress are made of plastic. Consequently, shoddy manufacturing inspired by cheaper plastic parts seem to cause us to throw away large items at an increasing rate, because they are no longer designed to last, but designed to fail and designed to be trashed.

    Just the other day, a patio umbrella got lifted out of its stand by a freak updraft, causing the umbrella to crash on its side and, to my surprise, seemingly magically breaking the mechanism that secured the tilt hinge that lets you tilt the umbrella. This critical component was made of plastic that LOOKED like metal.
    Metal would not have broken like that, because it could have taken the sheering stress that the plastic could not. Everything else about the umbrella was fine, but this one, small, plastic part rendered it unusable due to breakage. What a waste!

    • Look at smartphones as an engineering nightmare. I believe it was the Nexus 5(?) that had a glass backing that would crack merely dropping a set of keys on it.

      I had a clothes washer break. Just like your umbrella, one critical piece that connected the motor shaft to the tumbler was rubber encased in plastic. The manufacturer was well aware. How do I know? Factory replacement part was rubber encased in, metal.

    • I also see an increase in bad design and poor manufacturing but I don’t think it’s all driven by planned product obsolescence. Some of it is poor communication with overseas manufacturers and in some cases unauthorized substitution of cheaper parts not discovered until the product hits the market.

    • “Metal would not have broken like that”

      I give you MIM, metal injection molding. A way to get metal to break under stress. Low cost “metal” parts.

    • “Noyle was shooting Indonesian surfer Dede Surinaya in a remote bay when he and Surinaya discovered the water to be covered in garbage, according to GrindTV. The bay was miles from any town, yet strong currents had carried the trash of the world’s most populated island, Java, to its once pure waters.

      “It was crazy. I kept seeing noodle packets floating next to me,” Noyle told GrindTV. “It was very disgusting to be in there; I kept thinking I would see a dead body of some sort for sure.”

      In addition to the sea of plastic, large objects like tree trunks were being tossed around in the waves.

      Indonesia, a country comprised of more than 17,000 islands, suffers from a terrible trash problem that is polluting its waters. Some of the population centers have little to no trash collection infrastructure, leading locals to dispose of their waste in the street or in river beds, after which it inevitably is washed out to sea.”

      • The Indos are very loose about ocean pollution. True in many similar places around the world, once one has exited the bubble lands of Europe, North America, Japan, Australia, NZ, etc.

  19. I agree with Kernodle: litter is infuriating. My part of the countryside is relatively pristine but if I see a discarded fag packet or drinks can I feel compelled to bring it all the way home to throw it away. I don’t know what people think as they jettison this stuff through their car window but I work on the principle that rubbish attracts more of the same. A couple of crisp packets today, a heap garbage next week and landfill next month.

  20. Apropos plastic-particulate pollution, I am a Climate Skeptic sans pareil, but when it comes to trashing our World, I am a passionate advocate of mitigating, if not outright preventing the threats to our World eco-system.
    I understand that there are ‘dead-zones’ in the oceans …. vast vertically entrapped cylinders of plastic-micro-particulates with concomitant Oxygen depletion and depletion of marine life.
    Please tell me this isn’t so, but report after report adduces the fact….. such as, e.g., the residue from dredging the St. Lawrence River. It would seem to me that we are headed to living in a pervasive plastic-soup.
    I have HUGE respect for the accumulated wisdom on this — an other — websites, but PLEASE can we look at equally (??) threatening risks?

  21. Well, at least Kenya is cutting back on plakky bags…what will women wear on the back of a motorbike after a hairdo?

  22. If it was not for the CO2 lobby we would be burning plastic waste in plasma furnaces for energy so instead of waste it would become a valuable resource.

  23. Let’s now start talking about a PLASTIC PLANET. Most countries are still completely unbothered about the amount of plastic in the environment and there needs to be a lot more citizen pressure put on governments to start doing more about it. Otherwise the politicians will continue to sit on there broad, rather well-heeled arses. There is no way recycling efforts are keeping up with current plastic production levels.

    https://mankindsdegradationofplanetearth.com/planet-plastic/

  24. Buuu …. buuuu …. buuuut …. micro particles …. we’re DOOOOOOOooooooooooomed …. whoaaaaaa ……. William!

  25. David;

    I honestly believe the issue isn’t really pollution in truly negative or dangerous sense, instead it outrage that there really aren’t any places on earth the person complaining about this finds pristine and “unexplored”. It’s the desire to be somewhere no one has been before, which is a vanishing prospect on our planet, and the most likely reason there are people willing to chance a one way ticket to Mars.

    These folks are trapped on what they consider an overpopulated world and it would be cruel to make fun of them. They have legitimate concerns and they’re the entire reason people spent their lives discovering new worlds.

    • I’m sure that’s true for many people… but it’s still fun to ridicule people who think plastic in the Arctic and hurricanes are getting stronger due to climate change. And it’s really fun to ridicule people who think plastic, or anything people do, is a threat to the planet.

  26. Hi from New Zealand .This might be of interest to you .A company in Auckland is turning plastic waste into concrete .The name of the company is EnvirioPlaz and the product they make is Plazrock and when mixed in concrete the weight is reduced by 20% and the concrete is stronger than conventional concrete .We do have quite good recycling programmers in most places in New Zealand but they can all be improved .Used tires for example are being stockpiled but the government has to take a positive lead and enable them to be shredded and burnt as fuel .

    • Here in the States this idea has been put forward a couple of times, it gets shot down by EPA and OSHA. The claim it would be environmentally and materially unsound. We are allowed to use ground up old tires for landscaping mulch! Ya take progress where you can get it.

  27. Well, I think planet.is not meant to take any bit of.plastic at all. And people can.not live without plastics also. What I believe is plastics is most wonderful material found in the history of mankind.but the problem is mankind is not able to take control of it. Remember always sweet causes diabetes.
    http://Www.plasticishere.wordpress.com

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