Friday Funny: Earth Day Hate Mail

tong-flame-email2

Letters, I get letters, and even though the WUWT contact page says clearly:

Contacts made under this form (especially hate mail and threats) are considered to be fair game for publishing, just like the “submit story” form.

Some people just can’t help themselves. For example, today the story Seven Earth Day predictions that failed spectacularly by Andrew Follett of the Daily Caller got quite a bit of attention, and one David Corgan thinks I’m a “villain” for calling attention to failed Earth Day predictions of the past. The farce is strong with this one:

Name: David Corgan

Email:[redacted]@hotmail.com

Website: http://Astropunks.com

Subject: [Watts Up With That? – Earth Day Post] Contact

Message: Are you insane? It is only through MASSIVE efforts and huge expenditures by numerous governments that the Earth Day predictions have been averted. If not for the warnings, sentiments, and efforts of the scientists you denounce, we very well could all bestarving to death right now.

There are no scientists, or anyone that pays attention to actual data, that doesn’t believe we are rapidly heading for a global collapse. As a astrophysicist, I know how fragile and special our planet is, and shame shame shame on you for trying to promote such a horrible and destructive agenda.

The scientists, volunteers, authors, and more that you feebly attempt to debunk are champions of our planet and the human race. You are a villain.

Hmmm. Paul Ehrlich prevented us from starving to death? Somehow, Mr. Corgan just doesn’t strike me as a real astrophysicist…yet. Seems I’m right.

As for global collapse? We’ve heard it all before, that’s what the article points out. Here’s a few more  Earth Day predictions that failed.

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234 thoughts on “Friday Funny: Earth Day Hate Mail

    • Marcus
      read his Bio, He was/is continuing Ed. That means he has been trying to pay his own way.
      Misguided unworldly, yes. Suffers from some misplaced “hero-worship” But many of us do at times.
      My own thoughts are that if Anthony Watts wished to offer him a open hand and invite him to come and sit in on the conversations (playing by the rules!) I think we could open his mind or at least get him to see that people on the other side of the discussion are not villains. But then Anthony may not, he has suffered to many fools.
      michael

      • Naw, he’s too much a neophyte, (bachelor’s degree in 2015) fresh from indoctrination into the AGW religion by liberal professors and with no real experience in science. To claim himself an astrophysicist is technically true, but practically an exaggeration. https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-corgan-98a24639 Typically, fresh degreed undergraduate who has just enough education to believe he knows it all, but hasn’t the slightest idea how little he really knows. Reminds me of a snot-nosed second lieutenant fresh from West Point telling a 30-year seasoned chief master sergeant he’s doing his job wrong.

      • Don Perry April 22, 2016 at 6:29 pm
        Reminds me of a snot-nosed second lieutenant fresh from West Point telling a 30-year seasoned chief master sergeant he’s doing his job wrong.
        Don, did he ever learn?
        michael.
        Don you cannot squeeze twenty years experience into a twenty year old.It takes time for the twenty year old or in this case 30? year old to learn that.
        If his education is GIGO who is to blame? Students are led to believe they are getting truthful and accurate information. The sin is not on them but on those who knowingly deceived them. Don’t blame the student for the education departments inadequacies failures and dishonest.
        michael

      • I’ll never know if he ever learned. Having seen it time and again, it was the main reason I didn’t stay in the military. Put my four years in and thought I was getting away from elitist attitudes using positions of authority to trump years of real-life experience. What a waste. Only problem was that circumstance is everywhere, not just the military. Now, in my old age, I realize this is just the nature of things — different situation, same circumstances. Ivory tower elitists using authority of educational certification to overrule common sense observation.

      • My hero is Neil Armstrong and yes, I am in denial about the moon landing hoax.
        I need some time in the re-education booth perhaps?
        Agreed Mike, we should certainly offer a hand of understanding. I used to be a full-on warmist myself until the mist cleared.
        A bit embarrassed about it now in truth when I think how closed off I appeared. Ah well.
        Jones

      • You may be right, Mike, but I’m not yet willing to write Corgan off as “misguided” or “unworldly”. First off, Corgan is hardly some callow youth. According to the link in the post, Corgan worked in PR and sales, beginning in ’99. So I think we’re most likely talkin’ about some guy who has spent a coupla decades or so of his adult life professionally pumpin’-out puffery, hype, soft-soap, cajolery, blandishments, sweet-talk, jive, razzle-dazzle, and, since Corgan seems to be an Irish name, blarney-boogers. Further, the indefatigable, hyper-energetic Mr. Corgan appears to be a obsessive-compulsive “joiner” and resume “plumper-upper”. Finally, I think no one would be too surprised if we were to further discover that the estimable Mr. Corgan is also a world-class schmoozer, and a major local-talent in the rump-kisser department. Hardly the track-record of your standard issue, “misguided”, “unworldy”, brainwashed, hive-abused dumb-kid, I would suggest.
        So, Mike, I think a more likely profile of Mr. Corgan, though one entirely made-up by moi, would have the gent suddenly askin’ himself, incident to some sort of mid-life crisis, perhaps, if he were not wastin’ his supreme gift of gab and master-zinger knack for quality bull-shit on bulk sales of scrabble games to assisted-living facilities–that self-questioning, in turn, plunging my totally invented Mr. Corgan into a “dark night of the soul” search for Socratic self-knowledge and the meaning of life, his quest taking the particular form of some astute job market research into those flim-flammer positions that pay best for the least effort. And in the course of his investigations, I would then have that version of Mr. Corgan, that is entirely a figment of my imagination, discover the Gaia-hustle–stress-free, goof-off-normative, “safe-space” working conditions; troughs; easy-streets; gravy-trains; sinecures that would embarass a medieval seigneur; and an unlimited carbon-piggie pass for those brazen-hypocrite good-comrades in on the “greenwashed” deal. So what’s not to like about a “gig”, like that? Voila!–the rest is history.

      • Oops! In my comment, immediately above, please read “couple decades or so” as “a decade or so” and “mid-life crisis” as “premature mid-life crisis”. Also it’s “an obsessive-compulsive”, not “a obsessive-compulsive”. Other solecisms?–deal with it! Please.

      • We have a fridge magnet that says
        “Teenagers – Please leave home now whilst you still know everything…..”
        Whilst they may not be technically still teenagers – many of the most vocal warmistas are certainly of that emotional age.

    • Maybe Anthony can give benben this guy’s email address so benben can set him straight about Anthony and us just being like “crazy” old uncles and how we should be ignored, instead of demonized? 😛
      Two weeks without chocolate is making me REALLY ….er….itchy.

      • Chocolate is a major food group. You should not deprive yourself. It seems you may starting to suffer from chocolate deficiency. I recommend you a Hershey’s bar immediately before you symptoms become worse. 🙂

      • “Two weeks without chocolate…”
        Theobroma Cacao? Without?
        Theobroma cacao in Latin, Theobroma meaning “food of the gods.” And you are going without?
        Punishment?
        Torture?
        Masochism?
        Delusional?
        Home brutality?
        You have our permission to immediately demand restitution and fulfill your necessary infusion of chocolate!
        Chocolate, especially dark chocolate, supplies an incredible broth of antioxidants, beneficial fats and flavonoids.

        “Key chocolate ingredients could help prevent obesity, diabetes”

        “Improved thinking. Decreased appetite. Lowered blood pressure. The potential health benefits of dark chocolate keep piling up, and scientists are now homing in on what ingredients in chocolate might help prevent obesity, as well as type-2 diabetes. They found that one particular type of antioxidant in cocoa prevented laboratory mice from gaining excess weight and lowered their blood sugar levels. The report appears in ACS’ Journal of Agricultural & Food Chemistry.”

        “•Contains flavonoids called procyanidins & epicatechins; flavonoids are part of a group of antioxidants known as polyphenols and are found in a variety of foods including dark chocolate, tea, red wine, and various fruits and vegetables
        •Decreases LDL (“bad”) cholesterol oxidation
        •Reduces the risk of blood clots
        •Increases blood flow in arteries and the heart
        •May lower high blood pressure
        •Cocoa may have a beneficial effect on cholesterol levels because it consists mainly of stearic acid and oleic acid. Stearic acid is a saturated fat, but unlike most saturated fatty acids, it does not raise blood cholesterol levels. Oleic acid, a monounsaturated fat, does not raise cholesterol and may even reduce it.
        •May improve mood and pleasure by boosting serotonin and endorphin levels in the brain
        •Regular intake is associated with better cognitive performance in the elderly
        •Contains a number of minerals, including calcium, magnesium, and potassium”

        I suggest that you visit this wonderful theme park in Hershey Pennsylvania to aid your health and allow you to be a youth!

        “Explore HERSHEY’S CHOCOLATE WORLD Attraction Hershey, PA USA”

      • I am not sure about the results of those studies, but I accept the precautionary principle so…
        WHY TAKE THE RISK?
        😉

        • Why take the risk? Because the money spent against AGW is money not spent against meteor strikes! Or against a new Ice Age, or an onslaught of demons from hell, or monster earthquakes that could literally shatter civilisation. Or a microbe mutation that would eat our children?
          Don’t you like children David?
          Why take the risk of not protecting against any of those possibilities?

  1. I predict the collapse of alarmism as we know it. I am sure it will be worse than we thought.

  2. I don’t know why, but when I saw this comment I had a vision of a spoiled child pulling wings off flies.

  3. I wasn’t aware that those scientists had anything to do with years of record crop yields worldwide. Maybe david corgy knows?

  4. “and shame shame shame on you for trying to promote such a horrible and destructive agenda.”
    Real Science, Real Inquiry, Real Critiques, Transparency in the Peer Review process, and disclosure of collusion a la Mann’s Nature Trick….That is what you have to be ashamed of Anthony?
    OK

    • But Paul, we were informed yesterday that “environmentalists generally KNOW who climate skeptics are: oil company shills, religious fundamentalists, and neoliberal cheerleaders”.
      Of course no one generally KNOWS who they subjectively categorize under the label of “climate skeptics”, and of course the hate mailer didn’t elaborate on the “horrible and destructive agenda” that Anthony must be secretly “promoting”, but hey…..they KNOW…ya know? (well, if they think you are a “climate skeptic” then you probably don’t know). The next time I meet one, I’m going to openly and directly ask him/her “Who and what am I?” and see what happens. I mean….they should generally know….
      LOL /sarc

  5. The tireless efforts of alarmists and hippies has kept us from all the predictions of mass starvation, unbreathable air, and polluted rivers. Bahaha. I think people bringing their own bags to the grocery store and the incredible efforts of our gov’t to regulate the number of gallons per toilet flush and the type of light bulbs we can use has led to greater agricultural yields. Oh gosh I guess I’ll throw in /sarc.

    • If AGW were really a “Thing,” HERE’S what the world would look like now:
      Civil air travel would be heavily rationed, relegated to “essential purposes only.”
      Gasoline rationing would be much tighter than that enjoyed in WWII. Most driving discouraged.
      Corporations and individuals would receive massive tax incentives for “telecommuting.”
      Gigantic tariffs would discourage all overseas manufacturing and international shipping.
      It would be THE LAW that all thermostats be set at no more than 60 degrees F.
      All commercial buildings would be ordered to go dark at sunset by law. No outdoor lighting.
      Food would be strictly rationed according to nutrient groups and calories allotted per person.
      Home hydroponic kits and home gardening and chicken raising would be essential to eat well.
      Personal consumption of all goods across the board would be minimized as an act of PATRIOTISM.
      Priority One would be the construction of next-generation nuclear power plants;
      Nearly everyone would work from home . . . and live in the dark except for tiny personal LED’s.
      Electricity, heating oil and gas, even wood and wood pellets would be strictly rationed and equitably distributed . . .
      And–wait for it–the U.S. Government would have to downsize by 3/4!
      That’s if this was a REAL and SERIOUS crisis, and the science meant we COULD “fix it.”
      See any of that happening? Riiiiight. And that’s where the B.S. meter went clang-clang-clang for me!

      • Dr. S., while i don’t care much for those (screwy lookin’) lightbulbs, i actually love my grocery bag… gotta make as much lemonade out of the agw lemon as we can

  6. Well, I predicted a massive, catastrophic rampaging of wild elephants throughout the earth, wreaking havoc everywhere, and killing millions. Good thing numerous governments stepped in, spending $billions to prevent it.
    Whew! Dodged that bullet.

    • In climate “science”, there’s a lot of rooms with elephants in them. We need to make sure they don’t all get out at the same time.

    • And those of us who looked at the data and realized that elephant stampeding risk was low and likely just a local (relegated to parts of Africa) environmental issue are, well, villains.

      • I have to admit to being lazy and pessimistic with respect to the elephant crisis. I thought it was all hype and that the proposed solutions would do nothing but line the pockets of Bruce and his ilk.
        I now must apologize for my selfish (in)actions; I’m truly and sincerely sorry. And I would like to thank those who worked tirelessly, sacrificing for the rest of us while we doubted them … Thank you Bruce Cobb (how can we ever repay you for your efforts?).

  7. My guess is that a real astrophysicist would know that he or she is an astrophysicist rather than a astrophysicist.

      • Grammar might not be an essential prerequisite for astrophysics, but even a non-native speaker of English ought IMO have grasped the simple distinction between “a” and “an”, at least in written if not spoken communication. It’s even more elementary than “y” becoming “e” before a Spanish word beginning with “y” or “i”. Such poor grammar and spelling is a dead giveaway as to level of education, indeed intelligence in this case.

      • Serves me right to have left out the “to” after “IMO” and before “have”. Not a split infinitive but a lame infinitive.

  8. Mr Corgan seems to have attached himself to a list of talking points, and shows no consideration of the facts. The predictions in question were in fact made by supposedly responsible scientists. However, all forecasts are subject to trial by fact, i.e., did the predictions work out? The facts are that none of the predictions have been validated by time and real world data. Changes in technology and advances in agriculture guaranteed failure of Ehrlich’s misbegotten dreams.
    Mr Corgan said that, “There are no scientists, or anyone that pays attention to actual data, that doesn’t believe we are rapidly heading for a global collapse”. No, Mr Corgan. There are no fact based studies that show that the world is heading for a global collapse. Name the studies that do, and it will become clear that those studies are predictions made by models that don’t validate with real world data. Pretty much all the surveys that have tried to show 97% consensus among scientists are either misleading, or downright fraudulent.

    • Yes, unfortunately Mr. Cogan’s comment is nothing more then fact free emotion based assertion. A conversation with such a mind set is likely impossible, as reason has forsaken him, but he can still shout.

      • Mr Cogan did assert that the hard work of many has staved off the certain disasters that awaited an errant mankind in 1970. I believe this assertion to be false. My supporting evidence is (a) the farcical nature of the predictions, (b) the baselessness of the arguments presented for these catastrophes, and (c) the several centuries of evidence that catastrophic prophecies about the future of mankind have failed in every single respect. The past is a very poor guide to the future when it comes to the development of civilisation.
        It seems very likely that Mr Cogan believes the increase in temperatures from 1976-1996 was caused by human-emitted CO2, agreed? Can we get 97% agreement on this assumption? Confirmation bias requires that he believes it for it is the only time period in the past 80 years that conforms to the AGW hypothesis.
        The lack of meaningful temperature change since 1996 as CO2 emissions continued to be emitted at an ever-increasing rate should create as much pause in his thinking as it has for the temperatures. The Big Question is, why doesn’t it increase with the CO2? How can someone who studied so hard and devoted so much effort to learn difficult and abstruse mathematics not take a few minutes to perform the simple calculus necessary to confirm that:
        +ΔCO2 ≠ +Δ°C with any correlation coefficient greater than 0.6.
        I can get a better correlation than that reading tea leaves to predict match-making success.
        Mr Cogan calls our attention to ‘the data’. I too call his attention to ‘the data’. Avoid the hype, the misdirection, the coincidental harmonies, and especially the deliberate fabrication of ‘evidence’ by the green troughers. Correctly calculate the warming from CO2 when the lapse rate is permitted to vary; correctly incorporate the fact that the tropics do not warm with additional CO2; observe that cloud cover increases earlier in the day if tropical sea temperatures rise; maintain a vigil over the total sea ice cover, the total sea ice mass, the land ice cover and mass, then rejoice that the Earth is not sinking into an early ice age as many feared on that first Earth Day.
        Jim Hansen’s paper warning of impending doom for a frozen, starving humanity was only two years old at that time. That doom didn’t last a decade. New dooms manifested like boils on the face of Science. Each needs to be lanced and drained, leaving scars on our collective intellect. What manifest loss.
        Peak oil
        Peak food
        Peak people
        Peak water
        Peak stupidity
        Peak pessimism
        Bloomberg TV mentioned last night that a $15 trillion economy of CO2 control is about to emerge. That is a ten-fold increase over the current carbon-lunacy. Mr Cogan, that is an ‘astrophysical’ amount of money to spend without first validating the models, don’t ya think? And who do you think would be gung-ho in favour of requiring such vast expenditure without first checking to see if the science behind it is solid? Beneficiaries? The whole renewable energy sector is polluted by the prospect of plunder. That’s why its proponents are giving out free lunches.

  9. This is priceless. When nothing happens they say, ‘See? We averted it!’ Keep sending us money and we’ll avert the next one too.
    A pardoner’s tax.

  10. What is really shocking is that he believes what he says and further acted on his beliefs. Kind of like Obama and his intended signing of the Paris accord. Ooops I know Obama doesn’t believe but not to worry acts anyway.

    • Makes one wonder what level of competence doctoral candidates are at nowadays. Apparently, anything, including pure fiction, is acceptable.

      • He aims to do a PhD. His profile shows he is just starting out. He has lofty ambitions and a great sense of his own worth.
        Incidentally, I have a PhD in Astrophysics and not once was the Scientific Method formally taught to me. It was implicit and assumed – but I can see how many people can gain formal qualifications and yet be ignorant about the philosophy underlying Science – such as the fact that contradictory data must always be sought and examined, and theories amended or discarded as a result.
        Somehow I think this buffoon would love to have the letters after his name, while actually acting extremely contrary to the Scientific Method (just as our friend David Appell does).

    • There was a case a couple years ago of a guy who dressed up as Bigfoot, and lay down on an old country road, pretending to be a Sasquatch run over on the highway… and got run over while he was lying there.
      People that fake evidence KNOW they’re faking it, and yet act as if it’s all real. It’s as if they believe that conning someone into believing what they believe is some kind of validation, even though they are perfectly aware of reality.
      It will make an interesting sociological/mass psychiatry study someday.

  11. Viewing his student association page involvements, I suspect that he just hasn’t had the time to properly investigate the Globull Warming facts. Maybe he is the one needing some tutoring on the subject by dissidents. That is assuming that Minnesota State allows opposition viewpoints in their safe spaces.

  12. What do you expect from an “astropunk” member.
    I found this description:
    “Astro punk combines the visions of a high tech future,with the nostalgia
    of the past. In other words Astro punk encapulates a kind of “retro
    futura” i.e. the future and the past combine in an esthetic whole…
    Perhaps the best or edgiest astro punk combines these element into an almost discortant amalgamation.
    So then, Star Trek is astro punk… but, the Klingon Empire
    is good/great astro punk. ”
    Mr Corgan is a follower of the science fiction of global warming.

    • Steve Fraser on April 22, 2016 at 4:01 pm
      Space ships,with pull-chain toilets and an actual clay brick in the toilet tank to save water.

    • Tony:
      I tried to look at the ‘Astropunks.com’ website. Didn’t exist.
      Next I tried a generic whois Astropunks.com, nothing.
      Visited ICANN and ran whois from their site:
      “Registrant Contact
      Name: Domain Administrator
      Organization: See PrivacyGuardian.org
      Mailing Address: 1928 E. Highland Ave. Ste F104 PMB# 255, Phoenix AZ 85016 US
      Phone: +1.3478717726
      Ext:
      Fax:
      Fax Ext:
      Email: pw-3e6ff04191ce0a1d19a279972342ec5e@privacyguardian.org
      “Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.namesilo.com
      URL: https://www.namesilo.com/
      Registrar: NameSilo, LLC IANA ID: 1479
      Abuse Contact Email: abuse@namesilo.com
      Abuse Contact Phone: +1.6024928198 ”
      Looks like a parked domain.
      Perhaps Mr. Corgan believes himself to be a member of group solely by association.
      Looking over Mr. Corgan’s bio sheet, there are a lot of very loose claims. They may have been true at one point in time, but they are not currently true; e.g. President Student Government.
      When a person’s brief accomplishments and work are just simple claim with dates and place; I suspect that the person isn’t being fully honest. Especially when many of the ‘experience’ claims are vague acronyms, unknown outside of a small group.
      There is a huge difference between some courses and social activities at a two year Community College and a full physics PHD at an accredited university.
      Just saying.

      • “simple claim with dates and place”
        Should be
        “simple claims without dates and place”
        All contributing to Corgan’s ‘vast’ experience. Somehow somewhere, maybe.

  13. Can Mr. Crogan imagine the Earth had we developed nuclear energy in any thing like scientists envisioned after the 1950’s. How fabulously clean water and air could be with a generous supply of energy to apply to technology? How many more jobs for materials engineers and scientists instead of social workers and corrections officers? Ehrlich and Commoner only tried to put concrete overshoes on mankind’s progress and advance to the space age. How is it that “progressives” hate the very idea of Progress?

    • The real problem with being a villain is all the added expense involved, Anthony. You are going to have to grow your moustache out; invest in a moustache curler; add moustache wax to your shopping list…
      And we haven’t even got to the top hat and opera cape yet!

  14. “5. What challenges do you see facing Minnesota’s community and technical college students?
    Besides the constant concerns with keeping tuition and fees down, and simply finding a parking space, we struggle with current & future employment, time management, stress & depression, upcoming legislative budget shortfalls, a cumbersome financial aid & application process, and reliable grad planning.”
    Looks like depression and a parking space loom large in his life. The internet just doesn’t forget.

    • I didn’t see “where my next meal is coming from” on the list of concerns, which puts him light years ahead of many millions of humans present and past. Compared to them, he’s living the life of Riley.

    • I went to a local state school for both my BS and MS … commuted for the MS. The greatest complaint heard was a lack of parking. There was plenty of parking … I never struggled to get a space in my “favorite” lot, which left me an enjoyable 3/4 mile walk. It never failed that those complaining were those who expected the space next to the door. This guy fits the bill of the ever expanding populace who wants life to be easy, and others to do for him.

      • Nobody ever takes the spots at the back of the lot, unless they have to. If you’re willing to walk a bit, you’ll never lack for a parking space. You’ll get some exercise, too. Burned calories is burned calories, in or out of the gym.

  15. “If not for the warnings, sentiments, and efforts of the scientists you denounce, we very well could all be[]starving to death right now.”
    Did he maybe misunderstand what the Green Revolution was all about? Once upon a time, “green” had other connotations than today, after all. Among other things, it used to be about increasing the output of agriculture. In Norman Borlaugs words:
    “…some of the environmental lobbyists of the Western nations are the salt of the earth, but many of them are elitists. They’ve never experienced the physical sensation of hunger. They do their lobbying from comfortable office suites in Washington or Brussels. If they lived just one month amid the misery of the developing world, as I have for fifty years, they’d be crying out for tractors and fertilizer and irrigation canals and be outraged that fashionable elitists back home were trying to deny them these things.”
    (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1997/01/forgotten-benefactor-of-humanity/306101/)

  16. ” It is only through MASSIVE efforts and huge expenditures by numerous governments that the Earth Day predictions have been averted”
    Part of the beauty of global warming alarmism is that any predictions of climate doom that don’t come true you can say its because of what we DID do, and anything bad that happens that is possibly weather related its because of what we DIDN’T do. As for massive efforts and huge expenditures by governments… the rise in global CO2 levels has continued to accelerate with all that herculean effort and massive spending. So all those gloom and doom predictions about rising CO2 level caused global warming were averted by massive government actions and expenditures to make sure the CO2 levels kept accelerating at the same pace they would have had the government done nothing to stop the rise? Sounds like a lot of wasted government money.

    • Plexibody (where a piece of Plexiglas is inserted into the lower abdomen) is a new surgical procedure that purports to alieve the symptoms of cranial-rectal insertion syndrome.

    • Umm..Is that like a ‘Butt Head’ or, or like a Doc who studies people with their heads stuck up their asses? A psychiatrist..ologist?

  17. Part of this is happening because they have the wrong problem. You and fellow travelers have proved beyond a scientifically reasonable doubt that the planet is NOT WARMING.
    But something much more serious (warming would be good) IS happening–and our greenie “friends” do have the right SOLUTION.
    The world’s soils are being near-sterilized by chemical-based agriculture. It is the dead bodies of a zillion earthworms and insects and beneficial bacteria that are piling up in the sky as carbon dioxide. In itself, the increased carbon dioxide is a blessing because we are carbon-based life forms. Not only plant fertilizer, CO2 is directly beneficial to mammalian bodies as well. We evolved with much more of it in the atmosphere than today’s starvation levels.
    It is an indicator, though–and the Paris conference wanted to “sequester” the carbon dioxide into the soil. They have the wrong problem–but they have the right solution! Richer soils are indeed needed. Get behind that effort and you can finally succeed in toning down the attack on fossil fuels–the ONLY fuels that INCREASE the carrying capacity of the Earth.
    Yes Paris included the usual garbage, but nothing was binding–which is realistic anyway.
    This site has mostly engineers and atmospheric people on it. But the real point of the whole debate was always, health, vitality, the biosphere. LEARN about this. You cannot teach a greenie–or anybody–that he is all wrong. Humans never accept that. Learn where they are RIGHT and the monstrous nonsense will go away at last. I tried this out today at an Earth Day celebration downtown. I yelled at a greenie, and then apologized and told him he had the wrong problem but the right solution and he ended up looking happy.
    Get a garden this year–small if you’ve never gardened before. Buy Square Foot Garden book if you are starting out. In any case, go to http://www.sonicbloom.com and read delightful stuff and buy a kit (my only commission is a healthier world). Read the book Cows Save the Planet.
    It is time to win the argument.

    • ladylifegrows April 22, 2016 at 4:02 pm
      Gardening that is the question to ask. Do you garden?
      I have for years. I retired and (Health reasons) moved to Northern AZ. (to be near my wife’s family) From Oregon. My Wife while in Oregon would look out at the back yard and say “you could grow stuff on Pluto, I would turn to her and in mock panic reply YES BUT YOU”RE TAKING US TO THE SUN!
      Needless to say I’m going to have to relearn everything. It will be fun.
      And yes I talk to my plants.
      michael

      • “And yes I talk to my plants.”
        I hope you get up close and personal with them (no, don’t mean ‘intimate’)
        Whispering to them gives them a huge CO2 boost.

      • AndyG55 April 22, 2016 at 5:14 pm
        No need, in the evenings I would lite a outdoor grill. some charcoal and some untreated scrape wood. I would stay up wind. It would warm me and feed my plants.
        amazing what you can grow in a small area. I would freeze beans 3-4 types, the wife would make pickles-relish. and of course salsa. a years supply
        michael

      • I think you’ll have fun with cacti and succulents. They don’t tend to be as edible as “traditional” plants, but are so unique-looking.

    • I will agree that we need to find common ground and talk reasonably. I bonded with a green in my family over nuclear electricity and the need to not harm people by denying the poor power. The most important thing is not to demonize them. They might be ill-informed or simply disagree. However, very few people are worthy of disdain. Most of them are well known here.

      • You may still be able to grow shade-tolerant crops (greens, etc.) in table-top beds raised above the surface to avoid invasive tree roots.

      • Okay we are going slightly off thread, but I think it okay because we are are remembering how much food we can grow in a back yard.
        Okay as a lark I have grown corn in plastic garbage cans(4). I got more then I could use but…I rate it as court of last resort. Ear size 50-75% normal size. So ya, you can grow corn in a confined area. Briefly.
        Lettuce all types grow well.
        The point is if you want to survive a back step or live healthier grow your own veg’s.
        My plan is to have year long gardens. Part field part enclosed. Want a tomato? a cucumber? some lettuce? go pick it.
        micheal
        .

    • All New Square Foot Gardening, 2nd Edition. No digging, no tilling, and little weeding, plus 100% of the crop in 20% of the space.

  18. And just how have the dire Earth day predictions “been averted”? Aside from some anti-polution legislation, the government hasn’t actually done much.

  19. Its the last recourse of scoundrels – when all the predictions have failed, and their credibility is on the brink of its final collapse, they’ll spin up some BS about how they “saved” everyone.

  20. What’s really frightening – the unintended comedy of this missive aside – is that he probably will end up a teacher, or even a ‘Professor’. These brainwashed ignoramuses then hand down their bigoted opinions to you children and grandchildren.
    As for his professed experience of PR and intention to exercise that in his desired role on campus: given the current evidence he has a great deal to learn and a long way to go. Penning illiterate and offensive letters to strangers with whom you disagree isn’t my idea of a good career move.

    • There is an entire goldmine worth of good wit written on this posting concerning the subject of this article. It attests to the fine humor (humour in English) and well rounded wealth of knowledge, intelligence and spirit by the usual suspects, and of some of the more obscure but well rounded voices of others, who post their thoughts here on WUWT. Mr. David Corgan, bless his sweet li’l heart, seems to have found himself in the precarious position of having over-stretched his reach far beyond his currently limited ambitions and station in life. Claiming unearned titles, while over stating his claimed capabilities in his professed scientific profession, he has found himself and his statements of fact imploded and splattered upon a steel curtain of superior intellect, great wit and concrete determination by the humble and thoughtful posters and the founder of WUWT, Mr. Anthony Watts, who, in his determination to give equal voice to the ‘haters’ of skeptics, has given Mr. Corgan a seat at the table in this fine forum. May god (or a higher power, or whatever) bless him for his spirit and, in hopes of saving his intellect and soul, we pray for his return to this site in the future as an objective and interested observer and outstanding contributor with a wealth of knowledge and a sincere dedication to truth, reality and the Scientific Method (When he learns of it)… A philosophy which has greatly enhanced mankinds existence and well being upon this Earth and has been, for thousands of years, one of mankind’s greatest triumphs and has taken us to places only dreamt of just a few short years ago, but which, sadly, has been relegated to the less important role where politics, power, and ignorance have become the more powerful influence on society in this era of materialism and selfishness.
      Whew!

  21. At least Mr. Corgan is relatively polite and coherent, when it comes to writing hate mail… compared to some of the other hate mail stupidity that Mr. Watts has received and posted.

  22. So Earth day averted Global Cooling – but now we have Golbal Warming!
    I alsways wondered who was to blame for the warming.
    It appears that Governments expended too much money and should stop immediately.

  23. He said in his bio that, “During a vicious November blizzard, I was born to Jolene and William Corgan in a Minneapolis hospital.”
    I don’t know his age. So I don’t know what “vicious November blizzard” he’s talking about.
    He can’t possibly remember it. He was just born. The weather when he was born also has nothing to do with what he is now.
    So he was told about it. Maybe by a fan of “The Storm Channel”?

  24. Hardly my idea of “hate mail” nor a flame. He sounds very mild mannered and reasonable, just hopelessly ill-informed.
    I’m a little unclear how being “a astrophysicist” helps him to know how “fragile” the Earth may or may not be. I thought astrophysicists studied stars not ecosystems.
    It is quite possible that warnings and campaigns about pollution have enabled great improvements in the past. If we had not acted we’d doubtless have air quality like Beijing by now.
    The rest of the warnings seem to have been pretty way off the mark.

    • As Orsekes pointed out, the Chinese form of government is far more efficient than ours at screwing things up. We should adopt their ways in order to save the planet. /sarc

  25. Anti-pollution legislation has accomplished great things, but it has also followed the old 80/20 rule. So the vast majority of pollution was abated/averted with the first few decades of effort. Now their plans and spending approach infinity, as the molecules of pollution they’re chasing approaches zero.
    The actual threat to mankind now is the insatiable and irrational Green movement itself.

  26. I have a feeling that he didn’t read beyond the headline. Government intervention has greatly helped urban air pollution, putting it below levels known in even pre-industrial eras. I saw this article first and was about to support the author. However, all of the predictions in the article were absurd.
    The EPA HAS done good work. Let’s not forget that. However, the problem is, as always, gross exaggeration and alarmism on what the problem is and how to fight it. It’s not “we’re all going to die so ban cars”, it’s “increase efficiency and add pollution controls to be able to breathe a bit better”.
    If we were honest with each other, we would all be better off.

    • “…Government intervention has greatly helped urban air pollution, putting it below levels known in even pre-industrial eras…”
      I have a hard time believing this claim…especially with CO2 now classified as a “pollutant.”
      In any case, government regulation may have helped drive it, but much of the solution was technological advancement, not “…MASSIVE efforts and huge expenditures by numerous governments…” as the asstrophysicist here claims. In most cases, governments probably barely lifted a finger.

    • Yeah. However, I can tell you that due to a regulation (30 TAC 115 subchapter H to be specific) made in 2005, my plant has decreased its emissions by almost 50% since that time. While the saved resources make it worthwhile in the end, there is no way that we would have made those investments had it not been a regulatory requirement. Most reductions on the industrial level aren’t due to a technological improvement, but boring things like particulate scrubbers, fugitive monitoring, and flare flowmeters. Sometimes you get a new thing, like nitrogen-hydrocarbon separators, but the real impact comes from just dedicated action.
      In short, the claims are exaggerated, yes, but with a kernel of truth behind them.

  27. David Corgan (I almost said Billy,)
    I ain’t a astrophysicist. What I am (is,) besides almost being a rocket scientist, is a Brain Surgeon. At least, I’m practicing my correspondence course on weekends. Getting better, too.
    I’ll make you a special offer, in case your brain is fried, which it might be. You never know. I can make some scary predictions about what will happen to you if you pass up this offer.
    It’s a certain prediction that with your condition, you can’t be trusted to make your own decisions. This matter is just too important to be left to no- brain surgeons like yourself.
    Come on over, we’ll save a bed for you.
    You’ll only feel a pinch (but no worries, you won’t remember it.)

  28. This hate mail is, at best, a ‘C-‘ effort. Mr. Corgan gets points for using polite language and being coherent…for hate mail. He loses points for lack of vituperative, vitriol and imagination. “…shame shame shame on you…” and “You are a villain.”, really? that’s not much better than wagging your finger and saying tsk, tsk. Mr. Corgan needs to do better work if he wants a better grade.

    • SMC April 22, 2016 at 4:41 pm
      This hate mail is, at best, a ‘C-‘ effort.
      SMC aren’t you being a little harsh? This thread may by reviewed by his Profs. Giving it a “C”? A poor grade in this forum may effect all his other studies. I beseech you to raise his grade to a minimum of B+ .
      A- would would be more helpful for him. Would you please reconsider and ask that you rating be edited?
      Its only fair, his (“wine wine”) future is at steak, (Darn I dropped my beer) Have pity.
      Your friend
      michael

      • Mike, I thought I was being magnanimous with that grade. His effort lacks emotion, passion and is unimaginative. If he is willing to edit and resubmit his effort, taking into account my criticisms, I will reconsider the mark I gave him.

  29. This isn’t something left over from April Fool’s day, is it? Otherwise Mr. Corgan is so far out in left field as to be right out of the stadium.

  30. ‘There are no scientists, or anyone that pays attention to actual data, that doesn’t believe we are rapidly heading for a global collapse.’
    Where is he going to get ‘actual data?’ Over half of U.S. data is COMPLETELY MADE UP (realclimatescience.com). The rest has been adjusted.

  31. Suggest you all play the ball, not the ball player. Ad homs on our side do us no good; just stoops to their level. As somewhat here.
    AW was right to publish this garbage. It needed no further comment.
    Take the high road, not the low road.

  32. “…What sets me apart, however, are my years of Public Relations experience in the professional world…”
    Yes, I can see how he’d be good at public relations…starting out emails with, “Are you insane?”

  33. People like this are really dangerous! They lie constantly about environmental science related subjects, believe their own lies and chastise anyone who attempts correct their insane ideas as demons. And their lies multiply like rabbits! I see it daily and don’t always have the energy to correct them NICELY! Lord help us from these mental midgets/misfits!!!!!!

  34. This site can’t be reached
    astropunks.com’s server DNS address could not be found.

  35. “I wish him luck on his GRE, but I do have my doubts.”
    I wish him luck with with his bachelor degree, and I guess with his associate degree too.

    • This man is a serious indictment on the whole education establishment in Minnesota. And to think he actually paid for it; actually, I believe he was robbed and his “perfessers” are the perpetrators.

  36. “……It is only through MASSIVE efforts and huge expenditures by numerous governments that the Earth Day predictions have been averted…….
    :
    ………..There are no scientists, or anyone that pays attention to actual data, that doesn’t believe we are rapidly heading for a global collapse. As a astrophysicist, I know how fragile and special our planet is, and shame shame shame on you for trying to promote such a horrible and destructive agenda…..”
    So, um…its thanks to government that we didn’t run out of crude oil decades ago? And, um…was it government then that is responsible for the increase in food production and not scientists like Norman Borlaug? I guess government scientists must have done all that agricultural science research if I understand you correctly. And those scientists obviously are now trying to kill us all off now with GMO foods, are they not?
    David, I was wondering if you “scientists” have determined how much longer we have until we humans and the planet can….um…..you know, “hang it up” so to speak. I need to know so I can plan out and schedule my remaining days accordingly. You don’t need to get the date right down to the month and day, just a year will do. Let me know when you and other scientists have finished your calculations and have determined the year. Thank you so much in advance.
    David, it sure is wonderful to see you defending those who demonstrated such tremendous faith in human ingenuity and innovation even if their predictions decades ago weren’t um, ….you know…quite right. And if Anthony is truly insane as you suggest (and all these years I could have sworn he was sane) and is advancing an agenda that will kill the planet and all of us, I guess he and his “ilk” need to be locked up, huh? Maybe it will delay the onset of our doom…..maybe.
    Bless you David for being such a wonderfully “enlightened” individual, even if you really aren’t really an astrophysicst as of yet as you claimed. (/sarc) (LOL)

  37. Yeah, OK, he’s not actually an astrophysicist.
    But since he’s working on his PhD, can we say he’s at least a half-as-trophysicist …
    w.

  38. Essentially, he is like a sun worshiper who attributes the rising of the sun to his prayers.
    He appears to think that if it weren’t for the neo-Malthusians, the car would have simply gone off the cliff. Actually, what is happening is that the car is in some danger mostly thanks to the neos making a mad grab for the steering wheel, believing the highly competent driver to be incompetent.

  39. I’ve said before that I don’t believe any physicist can be all of: honest, diligent, competent, and sane, and not be completely certain that the CAGW theory is false. ANY physicist (including astro- and other subsets) who proclaims the truth is this theory is deficient in one or more of honesty, diligent investigation of the theory, competent ability, or sanity.

  40. Message: Are you insane? It is only through MASSIVE efforts and huge expenditures by numerous governments that the Earth Day predictions have been averted. If not for the warnings, sentiments, and efforts of the scientists you denounce, we very well could all bestarving to death right now.
    _____________________
    Powerfull tool: one earthday and doom waiting past 30 ys is cleared.
    Earthday declares another doom past following 30 ys.

  41. As was noted by a friend of mine who looked in on his bio: There’s not a single environmental bit anywhere in there. He doesn’t say a word about it!

  42. I read David Corgan’s biography. If he becomes an astrophysicist, he’ll be so inept, all he’ll be able to do is teach…..his incompetence to a new generation. He had no clue what the scientific method entails.

  43. Astrophysicians work with models to. Seemingly this one knows of no quality difference in physicists vs. Climatologists models.

  44. “villain” — how quaint. Refreshing. The common modern insults were getting tired.
    BTW, on that list of old predictions, the “population bomb” figures highly. I don’t recall any successes and only a few measures to reduce population growth (China’s one child policy and eastern europe communism’s side effects). Since it didn’t work to convince everyone to stop populating, they had to find a new cause: AGW. They still won’t be able to convince everyone to sacrifice enough.

  45. Oh Dear. On this “Earth Day” I can imagine seeing Michael Mann, James Hansen and Jimmy Jones sitting round a camp fire near State College Pennsylvania, [Snip. A little over the top, wouldn’t you say? -mod]

  46. These New Worlders are attacking from every angle – Here Soros and Bloomberg are funding cities by announcing they have “won” an award to change the way the American economy works. Incidentally, this newscaster in North Dakota is probably unique in the media industry. I hope he doesn’t lose his job:
    https://youtu.be/DAeAbX4RLns

    • People tend to do that when Ahh “a” is pronounced “Ayy” as in “Ayy” “Ahh”strophysicist.
      It’s the same in HP documentation, An before “H” because “aych” is how it is pronounced instead of my Irish “Haych” for H 😀
      The problem is because some pronounce letters differently, the idiots think it changes the structure of the sentence lol

      • I read it all the time in HP documentation, “An Hewlett Packard laptop” lol, just because you pronounce “H” like a vowel doesn’t mean you can slaughter English language

  47. “There are no scientists, or anyone that pays attention to actual data, that doesn’t believe we are rapidly heading for a global collapse.” How many genuine scientists does he know? He needs to get an education in the real world.

  48. Maybe you’ve got it wrong!
    What if all the predictions are right but Big [input name here] has control of so much media etc that we’re not realising it?
    It’s just that Big [input name here] is an enemy of the prophets and fight to hide the truth.
    Sob ….

      • Or maybe the reptilians? I read somewhere that Islam is a creation of the Vatican, maybe that’s the culprit! Or maybe Goldfinger? ie I know not.

  49. So a halfass-trophisicist who knows nothing about climate science (Hello Mr Corgan hope you are reading) can tell us without any scientific support that earth day moaning has averted catastrophe?
    And people wonder why I have issues with astrophysics when this is the sort of deluded idiot that enters the field. 😀

  50. Mr Corgan, if you are reading and you are as claims are a scientist, can you post the supporting documentation that backs your claims?
    Isn’t that how it works? How does a scientist get all angry after reading an article and post unsupported hysterical nonsense.
    Now if you could just approach this in a scientific manner, and explain what catastrophe was averted and your evidence on how earth day predictions averted such disasters.
    If this is beyond you, how on earth do you intent to make an impact in the fields of physics and astrophysics? It certainly shows how you Mr Corgan would react to any opposing scientific theories to your own.. as in a childish illogical unsupported rant.
    Make your case or are you a coward?

  51. Name: David Corgan
    Message: Are you insane? ((what does this question even ask, more emotion)) It is only through MASSIVE ((emotion)) efforts and huge expenditures by numerous governments that the Earth Day predictions have been averted (unsupported assertions vague references no substance). If not for the warnings, sentiments, and efforts of the scientists you denounce, we very well could all bestarving to death right now. ((General rambling and shaming tactic again with no substance))
    There are no scientists, or anyone that pays attention to actual data, that doesn’t believe we are rapidly heading for a global collapse ((generalisation, absolutes and appeal to authority and again absolutely no support for assertions). As a astrophysicist (false claim, overstated pretense of authority, likes to see himself in the 3rd person perspective as an authority, David lacks integrity\ moral ethics)), I know how fragile and special our planet is (general meaningless emotional statement), and shame shame shame on you for trying to promote such a horrible and destructive agenda. ((Genetic fallacy reference and more shaming))
    The scientists, volunteers, authors, and more that you feebly attempt to debunk are champions of our planet and the human race. You are a villain. ((Appeal to authority, avoids ANY salient points, shaming and personal attack))
    David, pppplease respond to me, I soo want to talk with you 😀

      • Depends, if you turned in a whiny rant for your thesis on any subject, how would you do grading wise? 😀
        it is scary that Mr Corgan might actually get his PhD and publish, given how his mind works, that is truly concerning!

      • Well, I think the assignment (probably self assigned for extra credit) was to write hate mail, not a critical thesis on skeptical positions. I think it should be evaluated in that light.

      • Well is that was the assignment, your hate mail must serve a purpose, and as such cold hard inconvenient truths are effective hail main constituents, of which there were none provided by Mr Corgan.
        So that would be a critical failure and instant massive F

  52. Well done, Anthony. Keep holding their feet to the fire because everybody else lets them get away with their nonsense.

  53. Yeah David, real scientist have played a great part in our food surplus, but, politicians and activists are destroying the credibility of science with their climate change shenanigans.
    Food is more abundant in spite of all the bad things, such as pesticide and GMO’s, that left-tards like imaginary astrophysicist David Corgan have kittens over.

  54. Sadly, David Corgan is operating with a serious mental handicap; an inability to think for himself. This is of course true of all CAGW True Believers, who have invested themselves emotionally in an ideology pretending to be science. Having their ideology challenged in any way thus results in emotional outbursts like the one displayed by his letter. Unfortunately, they can’t be reached by logic or facts as their belief system has built-in defense mechanisms against them. All we can do is pity them.

  55. Chiefs and Sargents wince when a freshly minted Ensign or Second Lieutenant starts an order with “In my experience…”

    • I am suing you for optical damage caused by looking for the CO2, can you give you your lawyer’s contact details please… 😛

      • Hi Mark
        Instruction is clear, ‘magnify to see it’; however do not ignore the next one abut the saving humanity from the inevitable catastrophe.

    • @vukcevic
      If CO2 is such a small fraction of the air and so therefore can have insignificant affect on temperature then how come it has such a magnificent beneficial effect on the greening of the planet when it has gone up by only a few 10s of ppm. Ae you therefore not contradicting the general consensus on here concerning plant rowth?
      Surely if it is insignificant it is insignificant always?

      • Hi Sergey, thanks for your enquiry.
        The CO2 molecule is tiny but it is a hard worker, as it is said in this unique ‘one page book’, a nature’s miracle you might say. You may have miss-read effect on the temperature. Of course plants love CO2 as acknowledged at the bottom of the page, a biologist might give you a more agreeable explanation.

      • sergiMK,
        If you investigate, you may find that photosynthesis is functionally quite different than radiative physics.

      • @ sergeiMK i did read that actually 300 PPM of CO2 is very “near starving value” for plant life and for this reason a rise of 100 ppm has this effect. also that the increase in greening goes logarithmicly down by each doubling of CO2 concentration. i also did read that plant life dies if CO2 concentration goes below 160 ppm for most plant species.
        if i remember well it was a link that was put on this blog btw but i did not keep it but i guess a bit of searching will get you to the studies and papers that confirm what i say…

      • Yes Bruce, not enough research has been done on the effects of gluten on global temperature. If it can make human temperature increase through its inflammatory effects why not a whole planet indeed!

      • Hi Jon
        It is only by chance that I didn’t write:
        “It is not advisable either for any human being or any other creature to stop breeding to save humanity from the inevitable climatic catastrophe.”
        but of course that would make a lot more sense.

    • I’ve tried to use the football stadium analogy in the past. Take aerial view of Penn State’s football stadium, with 100,000 home fans wearing white for the day’s game (I know its a little odd, but just for today’s game everybody wore white or light colored shirts). Now, disperse 30 dark blue shirted Michigan fans throughout the stadium (can you see ’em); then after halftime add another 30 Michigan fans (all dressed in blue).
      Now give a thermometer and an appropriate amount of grant money to the Penn State climate studies department and ask them to show that the new Michigan fans are dressed so inappropriately that it is going to ruin the game. (They can even make assumptions that the game goes on for another 30 years … but if they can’t prove it they have to give the grant money back and go to jail)

    • vuk, that looks a lot like my graph. I just made up my graph after seeing your graph. My graph has all of those black dots, and only one lone red dot. But in my graph the black dots represent water, and the red dot is a molecule of cyanide … would you drink a cup of that water?
      The argument you are making is that because something is small it is meaningless, or incapable of causing changes, effects, or harm. But ozone, which is only a minuscule fraction of the atmosphere, protects us very well from ultraviolet …
      And as the cyanide example shows, even a very small concentration of some molecules can make a huge difference in a large and complicated system.
      Finally, most everyone agrees that the small change in CO2 has greened up the planet by 10% or so …
      I fear that your argument, which boils down to “CO2 can’t do anything because there’s not much of it”, is totally meaningless and is well contradicted by our experience of the world. Sometimes, really small stuff is really important …
      w.

      • Mr Eschenbach
        Thanks for the comment.
        I’m sorry to say, but I am not familiar with your graph, I can assure you it is not plagiat. I was tempted to say ‘great minds think alike’ but to my everlasting disappointment I do not qualify for such an epithet.
        I rarely read your articles or comments unless they are sunspot related or of literary kind (which I do like) so it’s no surprise I missed it, perhaps you can post the link, so I can see what it is about.
        It was prompted by Dr. Svalgaard’s comment about Greenland’s ice and the Noah’s arc, and my similar experience
        See here https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/04/20/ceemd-and-sunspots/#comment-2196784.

      • Dear heavens, Vuk, my apologies. I was being sarcastic, not serious, and you did not and (in my opinion) never would steal my or anyone else’s work.
        It was merely an (obviously failed) attempt to show that your underlying premise is wrong. That premise is that if something is small (one dot among thousands) we can ignore it because it can’t have a significant effect.
        In fact, one cyanide molecule among many can have a huge effect … and the same is true about CO2.
        Again, my apologies. I’ll change my comment to correct the misunderstanding.
        w.

      • it is not worth a bother to offer the apology, but since you have done it, it is appreciated.
        Thank you for clearing the matter so promptly.

      • DON’T DRINK IT! A cup at 400 mg/l can be a lethal dose (for salts … which I assume is what he might have access to).
        Seems an analogy that includes significant negative acute response condition does not quite make sense when discussing the slow growth of CO2. Maybe chronic type analogy with a good long term exposure to lead would be better suited, although still inappropriate. Maybe arsenic … gotta have arsenic (like CO2 can’t live without it) … but then there’s the slow growth difference problem again. I don’t know fer sure, but I think considering CO2 as a problem is a stand alone concept that doesn’t have a good mirror image somewhere, and trying to say that it does is a bit, well … meaningless.

      • “vuk, that looks a lot like my graph. I just made up my graph after seeing your graph. My graph has all of those black dots, and only one lone red dot. But in my graph the black dots represent water, and the red dot is a molecule of cyanide … would you drink a cup of that water?”
        interesting Willis but Vuk didn’t just add the image, in the context of his accompanying text, your analogy doesn’t work, water is not air CO2 is not cyanide.
        For your analogy to work, CO2 must be to warming as Cyanide is to poisoning.
        Surely you see this my man

      • Jon,
        There is no logic there either. The CO2 stays in the air, diluted, and it does whatever it does.
        Cyanide DOES NOT DO ANYTHING at all as it sits there, diluted to 400ppm in a cup of water; when the “system” is significantly changed through filtration of the cyanide by the human body (if enough is filtered and retained) it causes problems.
        Plants filter and retain CO2 in very high concentrations for the good of the plant … there is no reason to even try to assign a maximum acute level for harm … the more the better.
        Humans filter and retain cyanide … there is a problem level (200 mg +/-). The analogy is misleading. Cyanide DOES NOT DO ANYTHING at all as it sits there, diluted to 400ppm, in a cup of water.
        CO2 does do something as is “floats around” in the air diluted to 400 ppm, the question is … what?
        The analogy is misleading (weather intended or not), and meaningless (except as a tool to further confuse the ignorant, or further embolden the willfully ignorant).

      • Willis,
        If you think my last sentence of the above post is incorrect please tell me why. If you don’t think so, then stop using the cyanide analogy … find another one that doesn’t include death and destruction.

      • DonM April 25, 2016 at 10:09 am

        Willis,
        If you think my last sentence of the above post is incorrect please tell me why. If you don’t think so, then stop using the cyanide analogy … find another one that doesn’t include death and destruction.

        Don, if you think 2 + 2 = 4 is incorrect, please tell me why. If you don’t think it is incorrect, then please stop posting here ….
        Do you see how foolish that threat sounds? Gotta say, amigo, I don’t respond well to threats.
        In any case, your last sentence was:

        The analogy is misleading (weather intended or not), and meaningless (except as a tool to further confuse the ignorant, or further embolden the willfully ignorant).

        Don, the claim in question was that CO2 one molecule among ten thousand air molecules is harmless because the concentration is so tiny.
        My analogy was to a small concentration of cyanide in water, one part in ten thousand … is that concentration meaningless because it is tiny? Well, no, because even a tiny concentration can kill you dead.
        Now, no analogy holds all the way down, that’s why it is an analogy … and my analogy is no different. It breaks down at some point. However, it is neither misleading nor meaningless.
        Finally, as to whether it is a “tool to further confuse the ignorant”, if you think I don’t do well with threats, I do even less well with accusations of bad faith.
        However, it’s a lovely morning, sun shining in a rain-washed sky, so I won’t bother with a listing of the faults of your forbearers, the probable number of single-celled creatures in your immediate patrimony, the chances that your parents had living children, and the odds of you avoiding prosecution for criminal stupidity … so this time, let me just invite you to be a bit more cautious with your tongue.
        It might be the habit of you or your friends to set out to “confuse the ignorant” or to “further embolden the willfully ignorant”. I don’t know, because I don’t know you. Perhaps you are accustomed to people doing that, so you throw such ugly accusations around with abandon.
        Me, I don’t do that kind of thing … I do my utmost to conduct myself as an honest and honorable man, and as a result I really don’t like being accused of such underhanded actions.
        Sake my advice and next time, stick to the science, or I will reveal the number of your cousins who are actual planaria …
        w.

      • Wow …
        … there were no threats …??? (and are still no threats from me, I don’t know where else to go with that)
        … there were no accusations with respect to intent (“whether or intended or not”); wasn’t trying for a nerve.
        … I do agree that 2+2 does equal 4, so I will continue to use that statement.
        … and since you very obviously think cyanide (concentration) is an apt comparison to CO2 (concentration), with respect to active consequences, then keep on telling everyone that it is (and here is my only threat … If you do I will try to point out how silly it is to do so)

      • oh, and I forgot, I’ll do it for you.
        I have two cousins that could reasonably be compared to worms.

      • DonM April 25, 2016 at 12:33 pm says

        Wow …
        … there were no threats …??? (and are still no threats from me, I don’t know where else to go with that)
        … there were no accusations with respect to intent (“whether or intended or not”); wasn’t trying for a nerve.

        Dang. OK. Don, thanks for the reply. Well, I guess a man could be that insensitive to the effect his words might have. To start with, the interchange was when you said:

        If you think my last sentence of the above post is incorrect please tell me why. If you don’t think so, then stop using the cyanide analogy … find another one that doesn’t include death and destruction.

        Don, if you think 2 + 2 = 4 is incorrect, please tell me why. If you don’t think it is incorrect, then please stop posting here ….
        Do you see how foolish that threat sounds? Gotta say, amigo, I don’t respond well to threats.

        Let me see if I can clarify this for you. When you tell a man “If you can’t tell me why X is incorrect, then you need to stop doing Y …” to me that is a most unpleasant anonymous internet popup telling me what I need to do. I called that a “threat”.
        And you’re right, perhaps that is not the correct description. So let me say, I don’t respond to anonymous strangers telling me what I “need to do”. I generally don’t let my friends tell me what I need to do, so why should I let you do it? I hope that makes my meaning clear.
        Regarding the other question, you said:

        The analogy is misleading (whether intended or not), and meaningless (except as a tool to further confuse the ignorant, or further embolden the willfully ignorant).

        Saying “whether intended or not” is just a weaselly candy-assed and totally deniable way to make an accusation, which is why I took it poorly. It’s like me standing up at your graduation and saying “Hey, everyone, from what we know DonM could easily be a child molester … or not, so keep that in mind if you’re thinking of hiring him”. It’s called an “implied accusation”, and the beauty part?
        Like you just did above, I can claim I’m totally innocent because hey, I said you might not be a child molester, so there was no accusation …
        Do you see how thin that is? And if you didn’t know that about implied accusations before now … well, they say “Good judgement comes from experience … and experience comes from bad judgement” ….
        Finally, saying that the only way you can find meaning in my words is if they are interpreted as a ‘tool to further confuse the ignorant, or further embolden the willfully ignorant”, well, that’s just plain nasty. Cleverly underhanded and totally deniable as well, but nasty nonetheless.
        Now, is it possible that you are just so clueless that you wander through life unintentionally insulting people? Sure, and I strongly suspect that is exactly what is happening here.
        All I do know is that it’s not pleasant to be on this end of it, whether you realize you are doing it or not. Let me invite you to re-read your words as though you were writing to a surly bear just awakened from hibernation … because when you start questioning the honesty of an honorable man, well, that’s who you are gonna be talking to …
        Regards,
        w.

      • The analogy is misleading (Whether intended or not),
        The analogy is misleading (good intentions not withstanding)
        The analogy is misleading (even if you didn’t mean it to be)
        All of the above mean the same thing to me.
        How about, “The analogy is misleading, even though you probably didn’t mean it to be; And it will only confuse the ignorant (by, in their minds, equating something lethal & deadly like cyanide to CO2 which is neither); and it will embolden the willfully ignorant because the analogy is provided by someone of such great stature. So, please stop using it.”
        Its a bad analogy, but is an attention getter.

    • Disclaimer:
      As you may have seen above Mr. Eschenbach has in past produced similar or even identical graph but on an unrelated matter, which I had no opportunity to see as yet. I can assure Mr. Eschenbach and any other reader that it is not plagiat, and it is an odd coincidence. If it is shown that similarity is over-whelming I am happy to apologise to Mr. Eschenbach and if possible to delete it, in case Mr. Eschenbach feels that he owes authorship of the above idea.
      Signed: M.A. Vukcevic

      • vuk, as I said above, my apologies for the misunderstanding. You did NOT plagiarize anything of mine, and in my opinion, you would not plagiarize anyone’s work. Like me, you do your own independent thinking, and are justifiably proud of that fact. I’ve changed my comment to avoid further misunderstanding by making it clear that the idea was yours, not mine.
        Regards and regrets,
        w.

      • As it was phrased it is not worth a bother to offer the apology, but since you have done it, it is appreciated.
        Thank you for clearing the matter so promptly.

  56. Mike the Morlock et. al.
    In case you are not aware of it, the Obama administration considers people who
    grow their own food potential terrorists as am I, a card caring member of Tea Party.

    • and people who store emergency food.
      I read a while back courts were used to stop a couple raising chickens on their own land.
      Ah heck, didn’t one old guy get time for building a lake on his own property, and then bought fish and added them to it, and then was charged with illegal fishing on his own lake with his own bought fish.
      The Fed government is nothing less than any other bureaucratic communist monster, regulations dont do people, nuance, reason nor understanding.
      The Oregon farmer jailed under terrorism laws for accidentally buring some fed land when making fire breaks. Wasn’t that the whole thing about the Oregon shutin, and of course the Feds ambushed and murdered the leader.
      When your own gov is putting snipers in the woods to ambush and kill citizens who stanbd up for each other, is it any different than Stalinist russia, just because the feds and commies told you you cant do different things the outcome is still the same.
      of course they are trying to do the same thing to Europe.

  57. Things aren’t like they used to be….and they never were….and never again will be….

  58. This argument also works as a defense of the persecution of witches.
    With minimal tweaking, as follows:
    Are you insane? It was only through MASSIVE efforts and huge expenditures of the medieval church that the spread of witchcraft has been averted. If not for the warnings, sentiments, and efforts of the inquisition you denounce, we very well could all be possessed by demons, right now.
    Which all goes to show that there’s no substitute for natural intelligence.

    • and the fact that demonic possession has NOT been proved to have been eradicated just goes to show you that the efforts (of what some call persecution) were not as massive as they should have been.
      If we don’t ramp up our efforts to eradicate, from our societies, the emissaries of evil (commonly referred to as witches) immediately, we will reach a tipping point (probably around 2023). At this point we will all be subject to the potential for the possibility of the certainty of demonic possession … AND YOUR GRANDCHILDREN TOO!

      • I myself have, on occasion encountered those miscreants who claim to reject the entire principle that magical crimes and witchery threaten the fabric of our society.
        And – so, it is clear that they too are devil worshipers and must have the demons cast from them, using all tools that we have available to us.
        Bring me – the comfy chair.

  59. Some of these “kids” like Mr. Corgan, need to understand that Anthony and WUWT have been in this game somewhat longer then they have been in the pursuit of an education…

  60. I think that this short educational video may help to shed some light on what may have occurred here:

  61. LOL. Mr. Corgan is a communtiy college student! He should put aside the science courses for awhile, and concentrate on freshman English. After all, he’s “a astrophysicist”.
    For lunch every day, he probably eats “a apple”.

  62. Usually by the time enough political will has been generated to “fix” the problem via government, civil society has already evolved to make it less of an issue. Government passes laws or regulations and take credit for what is already on a downward slope. The classic example is the automobile. We didn’t need Ralph Nader to get government to force manufacturers to make cars safer. We already wanted safer cars and the manufacturers were providing them. We started with the flimsy Model T and by the time Nader got involved in the 1960s, we already had cars as solid as tanks. That was because each subsequent generation of car was designed to be bigger and safer than the one that preceded it because that is what the market demanded. We didn’t care about fuel efficiency until the Arab oil embargo, then as soon as that created a scarcity of gasoline and drove fuel prices higher, we suddenly cared about fuel efficiency. So the manufacturers retooled and created smaller, more fuel efficient cars.
    Industry, generally, becomes more efficient driven by competitive pressures. They are constantly striving to improve processes to reduce waste and use fuel more efficiently. It is hard to believe for people who lived in NYC or LA during the late 60s/early 70s and ate smog for breakfast on their way to work, but pollution emissions per unit of GDP were already declining BEFORE the Clean Water Act, Clean Air Act were enacted and the EPA was created. Further, as economies evolve, develop and mature, they naturally gravitate toward less carbon intense fuel sources. Dung/Wood is used in primitive societies and it is the most carbon intensive. Then coal, which is more carbon intensive than oil, which is more carbon intensive than natural gas, which is more carbon intensive than nuclear.
    By the time the politicians act to regulate, the issue the regulations are intended to address are usually already being addressed by civil society in the market.

    • Absolutely. And for anyone who is in doubt of this principle – then they only need to make a comparison between the free-market (relatively speaking) U.S. and the communist USSR or former communist China.
      Countries where the government was in total control of the economy and industry.
      These were perhaps the most inefficient, wasteful and environmentally destructive regimes on the planet, ever.
      More government does not equate to more efficiency or high standards or good environmental stewardship, it seems. The evidence is in. We just spent an entire century conducting a longitudinal trial to confirm that point.
      Russia, Eastern Europe and China are still suffering from the catastrophic mismanagement of the communist era. And so is their environment.
      As you point out – if you get government out of the way, then people actual prefer efficiency.
      Since efficiency equates to higher profits and lower prices.
      Obviously regulation of some sort is needed to drive industry to clean up it’s own mess and factor in externalities. But we should be careful to consider that the power to regulate is power.
      And power corrupts.

      • Good point. After re-reading what I wrote it sounded like I implied regulation isn’t necessary. It is necessary. And I am not saying regulation did not speed up the processes that were already underway. It probably did. We can’t run the counter-factual scenario. I just wanted the letter writer to know (if he reads the comments) that he is giving government more credit than it deserves. He sees the “benefits” of regulation, but I’m not sure he appreciates the costs. There are the costs to government to administer and enforce the regulation and the costs to business to comply with the regulation. Both of which get passed to consumers. And then there are the anti-competitive costs of regulation. The more complex and costly government makes it for business to comply and compete, the more it inhibits competition. It makes it too costly for potential new entrants to enter the market and drive prices down to benefit society.
        As for the points you made, here is a terrific essay with lots of embedded links. I lived in NYC when the wall came down. I remember how shocked everyone was to find the utter ecological devastation the Soviets left behind.
        http://thefederalist.com/2014/01/13/if-you-think-communism-is-bad-for-people-check-out-what-it-did-to-the-environment/

  63. OT — I was a little bit apprehensive about going to the web site with the hate mail (virus or worse?). Recently, I installed Lynx on my PC (a text-only browser). So I went to the site using Lynx, and the frame info that came up confused Lynx.

  64. If it worked so well, why do we still need drastic measures? And why is the earth still warming if the previous efforts worked?
    Asking for a friend.

  65. David is an undergraduate waiting for a PhD opportunity to materialise. He is, therefore, a student. Students, look it up in the dictionary, have a lot to learn.

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