Guest essay by Eric Worrall
The Guardian reports that Japan this year killed more than 300 whales, for “research” purposes. Australia and New Zealand are criticised for not attempting to prevent whaling in the Australian whale sanctuary. But the whale slaughter has hardly raised a flicker of attention in Australia. Aussie green groups are obsessed with CO2.
According to The Guardian;
Japan admits to killing more than 300 whales in Southern Ocean
…
Four ships were sent to the Antarctic region over a period of 115 days from 1 December last year and killed 333 minke whales.
…
The Australian government in December described Japan’s decision to resume whaling over the summer as “deeply disappointing” and insisted it raised concerns at the highest level of the Japanese government.
It had said it would consider sending a customs patrol vessel to the Southern Ocean and explore options for legal action.
But the conservation group Sea Shepherd in February said the Japanese fleet had faced little or no scrutiny over the summer and Australia and New Zealand seemed unwilling to send a ship to intercept them.
Sea Shepherd Australia’s managing director, Jeff Hansen, said: “Once again false promises from the Australian and New Zealand governments have resulted in whales being killed illegally in the Australian Whale Sanctuary.
“The majority of Australians wanted the Australian government to send a vessel to oppose the slaughter. They did not.”
The Australian Greens senator Peter Whish-Wilson said the government had turned its back on Japan’s “sickening” illegal activity.
“Not in 40 years has an Australian government done so little to prevent whaling on our watch and in our waters,” he said.
The Australian government recently provided a billion dollars for renewables startups, but Australia can’t or won’t provide a few million dollars, to outfit an official expedition to the Antarctic Ocean, to prevent thinly disguised commercial whale hunting in the Australian controlled whale “sanctuary”.
If greens focussed on real issues, like preventing the outrageous ongoing slaughter of these gentle giants, instead of frittering away their time and capital, trying to reduce emissions of a harmless trace gas, there might be a lot less whale blood in the world’s oceans.
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Eric
Don’t forget the latest round of tree clearing laws in Queensland as a major distraction
“distraction” … Yes you got that right. Distract the majority of environmentalists with a constant barrage of CO2 stories so you can ignore and not fund anything else.
I wonder if the folks of Flint, Michigan, consider CO2 the biggest threat? How about some funds to clean up water supplies? Oh it was all spent on CO2! Too bad.
Nothing wrong with the water in Flint – they have a deadly lead pipe problem and don’t seem interested to solving it. They’re chemically re-scaling the pipes but leaving them in place. Government dollars at work. It’s no wonder there is a global backlash against out of control governments.
Kind of grasping at straws here guys. News that is actually related to climate change I read with great interest but these kind of invented links are a show of weakness. IMHO of course 😉
Cheers
Ben
So, you’re missing the point then.
benben never got the point.
Anyone with such a juvenile name should be disregarded anyway. “benben” sounds like a ten year old.
Eloquent as ever DB. I wish just wish I could equal your analytical skills. Maybe you should take up frenology next
Cheers
Ben
benben,
It’s ‘phrenology’, not ‘frenology’.
But thanx for trying to play the game, junior…
dbstealey; a possible origin, Benben was the mound that arose from the primordial waters Nu upon which the creator god Atum settled in the creation story of the Heliopolitan form of Ancient Egyptian religion. The Benben stone is the top stone of the Egyptian pyramid.
The point is that ever so many REAL problems could be fixed with the resources that are destroyed chasing the PHANTOM climate change non-problem. (benben obviously needs it spelled out.)
I repeat my standard troll detection test: posts that sort of compliment the site in general but single out THIS post as a bad one. The need to insert a defence before any criticism is given is standard troll over-defensiveness.
Benben. … It was also the first mound or hillock discovered by Nuah, after the great biblical flood. And the similarity of names here is not a coincidence.
You would read it like that, because of your disposition, not because of anything else.
Pointing out whales being slaughtered = Weakness
Bickering over meaningless global average temp = strength?
Puh-lease.
This is a real problem with real consequences for Whales, where as CAGW is a hypothesis that has been largely discredited.
But given your disposition, you see it another way. That means it’s your problem mate, that you can’t avoid predetermined responses.
I agree Ben! Clearly a wild leap of logic. Junk science verses junk science.
Clearly the concept of not harvesting whales because you think they are cute is not playing in Japan.
I’m inclined to agree with the devil’s advocates.
Eric, I really apprciate the effort you go to contributing to WUWT, but i reckon that implying Australia didn’t police the Antarctic marine whale sanctuary we have responsibility to control, on account of the money wasted on green blob boondoggles is drawing a long bow.
Being nit-pickey, the budget for appeasing the green blob and the budget for border protection aren’t joined at the hip (other than being underwritten by our hip-pockets)
You agree with Ben’s what!? frenology?
Then you follow up with vague claims and/or insults, followed by a ‘completely false’ strawman.
Oooh! KitP, you are so smart, and so able to discuss topics intelligently…
Not!
Dirty socks used for puppets by trolls unable to address topics accurately or further any discussion beyond schoolgirl adolescent comments meant as insults.
Erny: You didn’t actually read the article posted above.
Eric’s comments at the bottom of the information he posted from the ‘Guardian’ are pertinent and do ‘not’ blame Australia.
Yup, just jump into a discussion with vague insults… Real useful.
ATheoK, Actually i did read the article and the comments to which I’ve replied.
The remark I have made is relevent; it is drawing a long bow to remark that although “The Australian government recently provided a billion dollars for renewables startups…” the Australian government “…can’t or won’t provide a few million dollars, to outfit an official expedition to the Antarctic Ocean, to prevent thinly disguised commercial whale hunting in the Australian controlled whale sanctuary”.
There is nothing bemoaning the imagined apportionment of blame, it’s suggesting that the article’s conclusion is drawing a long bow. Which I believe it is.
Tell me, why do feel the need to place inverted commas around ‘not’ in you remark above? (not having a go, but I’m unsure what your emphasis implies).
Eric’s statement; “…The Australian government recently provided a billion dollars for renewables startups, but Australia can’t or won’t provide a few million dollars, to outfit an official expedition to the Antarctic Ocean, to prevent thinly disguised commercial whale hunting in the Australian controlled whale “sanctuary”…”,
did not ‘imply’ anything. It was/is a statement of fact.
Australia’s reasons are inexplicable. There is mass harvesting of whales in ‘Australia’s whale sanctuary’.
Australia has provided a billion dollars of citizen’s taxes for renewable startups; actions proven as terrible investments and bluntly, waste taxpayer’s money.
Border protection?
Renewables are ostensibly driven by environmental concern as efficiency nor rarity is driving the race away from common consistent inexpensive energy supply.
Whales and the Australia marine whale sanctuary are managed under Australia’s Department of Environment. The Minke whale (Balaenoptera acutorostrata) is listed under the Australian Management plan.
Whales and renewables are, in fact, under the same branch of Australian government.
Actions speak far louder than words. Australia spent and is spending incredible amounts of money for unproven climate alarmism, e.g. dams and reverse osmosis water plants. That is the choice of Australia’s leaders and perhaps represents their current fad & fashion; whales are so ‘last year’.
The apostrophes delimit, separate and uniquely identify their contents for emphasis. Emphasis similar to differently enunciating specific words in conversation to bring attention to the words. Less emphasis than bolding and much less than an exclamation remark provides.
The Clean Energy Innovation Fund will first begin disbursing funds in July, 2016. The fiscal year for the government of Australia begins July 1, so this fund will be rolled out in the upcoming fiscal year 2016. The whale hunt took place over the last few months, during fiscal year 2015. So you are saying that due to expenses planned for the upcoming FY 2016, the Australian government did not have the budget during FY 2015 to send out a vessel. Do you have evidence to support that claim?
Well a full grown whale emits around 85 tons of CO2 annually so…
The hypocracy is stunning. Maybe Australia should cancel the submarine contract?
It is all about the money. Examples, number of birds killed in wind farms are staggering, birds killed by concentrating solar reflectors are laughing called smokers, environmental impacts of lithium and rare earth mining, boys mining copper in Africa, the slaves forced to fish in the Indonesia and surrounding areas of the seas, and lead in the drinking water in Flint Michigan, etc., and the whales described in this post are examples of lack of concern for the environment. Why? $billions and $billions of grants, contracts, subsidies, tax breaks, and freedom from environmental laws’ penalties applying to every other industry. Global change is big money and everyone feasting on taxpayers’ money want to get their snouts into the trough.
It is hard to see environmental crimes and destruction when your snout is in the global change money trough.
This is why so many people do not believe the so called environmentalists and think they are phony. Because, they are indeed phony!
+1. Excellent reply.
BRAVO!
Leroy, can I call you that? Lenard sound too intelligent.
I am not staggered by bird kills. And thanks for your list of things you choose to be outraged about. Of course the cause is always “big money”.
Retired Kit P,
Why ought anyone give a [pruned] what you don’t care about?
Stones can do that.
Kit: you are certainly skilled at contributing to conversation. Your anti-sympathetic anti-birds comment about your self is apparently the only sentence without slight against others here, and I’m unsure about that one.
Yup! Throwing words into play that have zero bearing on the actual discussion, beyond taking potshots at others here.
It would cost millions to cancel it. Go study some international economics.
Another meaningless comment. The cost of cancelling is a one off. There is a net gain over time due to not having to man and maintain those subs.
Go study maths.
Asybot was saying ‘in my opinion’ that Australia should ‘punish’ Japan by not buying subs from them. No mention of going sub-free.
I’ve studied English.
…The Australian government in December described Japan’s decision to resume whaling over the summer as “deeply disappointing”…
Sounds like the Obama Administration’s response to acts of terrorism, with releases of statements which “condemn” or sometimes even “strongly condemn” them and then does nothing until the next round of attacks.
Mate by stopping the terrorism in inflicted by the US military and allies in the middle east might “stop the terrorist attacks”
Yemen is being pasted right now with thousands of civilians a month being slaughtered by Saudi Arabia with Obama’s and Cameron’s weapons and a media blackout.
American weapons plaster Palestine, Syria Libya Somalia Sudan Iraq Afghanistan.
Cause – effect
100 years+ of meddling and killing in the middle east costing millions of lives, and then everyone goes batshit mental with moral outrage when some of that terror makes its way back, but it is 0.00000001% of the terror the NATO allies dish out.
You really need to study history.
100 years, is it now? No wonder a cult of death can’t get a break!
gast my flabber!
Killing people is different than harvesting whales. I offended by those who do not know the difference.
I was reading a news article about a fatal truck accident. A husband and father was never coming. The article went on to discuss the concerns about fish by some environmental group.
The Guardian are lefties…..the Sea Shepherd folk are eco terrorists…is it WUWT business to join with the conservationists to save the whales?
Sadly environmentalists no longer care about conservation.
Their go to answer is deal with pesky humans.
How long before they start calling for culling. Well, banning DDT was about population, not environment, they want all those deaths in the third world.
In the words of Prince Philip, who heads up a large network of environmental groups, “I want to come back as a virus and kill most of humanity”.
Relative to the population, is that a lot of whales? I have no idea…
James,
According to the International Whaling Commission web site. so far as I can make out about 20 years ago there were over one million Minke Whales.
Have a look yourself.
It is not about numbers though, the eco nuts could say well there are 7 billion humans, we can shed a few.
The bird slaughter is the same in Denmark, “oh the population is not declining” which is not the point, the point is they are being needlessly slaughtered.
Whales are a menace to navigation.
Still hundreds of thousands. One of the most robust of the whales.
Furthermore, Antarctic Minkes only grow to around 6 – 7 meters – a bit bigger than a large great White.
Containers lost overboard are more of a shipping hazard than the odd whale.
When terrorists slaughter a few dozen and maim several hundred more, is that a lot? Relative to the population?
Is that how you weight the senselessness of the slaughter of intelligent animals…by whether or not it may actually wipe all of them out forever?
Eagles, whales- WTH, they’re gonna die anyway.
Besides, cats and windows…
End cruel capitalism.
Sure. While you’re at it, why not allow dog farms and butcher and sell their meat? They’re gonna die anyway — and ~ 7 times sooner than humans. Dopebama enjoyed a good dog steak or two in Indonesia, IIRC.
There are differences between animals. Part of being fully human is recognizing them and acting accordingly. And, yes, people differ on where to draw the line (some would kill no animals), based on an animal’s intelligence, its “personality,” the purpose for killing, the discomfort of the life of, and the pain of the killing method of the animal, but, surely, we can agree that WHALES are special?? That killing raptors and bats for NO NET GAIN is wrong??
That the benefit of glass windows outweighs the cost in birds lost?
No?
Well — we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
And, btw: Happy Easter, to you, Alan.
Take care (she is out there…. and I am praying…. 🙂 ),
Janice
There are dog meat festivals in China and Korea. Your pet dog may be special to you but the reality is that dogs are a dangerous menace killing many children. Dogs also kill other dogs. It is their primal nature.
I do not agree that whales are special. I wonder how gullible Janice is.
When others are trying to manipulate you into accepting their, it is a good time to be skeptical.
Kit,
You are either a lying troll, or a sick excuse for a human being.
Go be hateful somewhere else.
And Happy Easter…may God bless your soul and the love of Jesus enter your life.
Retired Kit P
It’s understandable why you’re “retired”.
You need to be more retired.
I agree with you Kit. Any alleged hierarchy of animals that we should either care or not care about is purely subjective, depending on culture and in the eye of the beholder.
Capitalism is not the issue, the human condition is. Greed is not bad in capitalism, greed creates jobs, corruption is the problem, government control of free markets by controlling money is the problem, institutions not being allowed to fail are the problem, and none of those things are caused by “capitalism”.
Point in case, the same human condition has corrupted climate science.
spot on mark. nowhere in the world does capitalism actually exist.
I agree Mark. I wish I had a million dollars for every time I have heard about greedy electric utilities. What they are really saying is that they use too much power, which is a form of greed.
I am waiting for someone call Starbucks greedy.
Starbucks is greedy.
A cup of coffee cost pennies for the actual coffee.
But…NEWSFLASH: Greed is no crime and no one has to buy a coffee at Starbucks unless they want to.
I’m not sure how i left the ‘sarc tag’ off of last night’s missive, but did. All apologies to anyone who didn’t get the point.
Happy Easter to you too, Janice and Mark and everyone else… even if your belief system doesn’t encompass the full meaning of the season, may you enjoy the blessings.
You’ve both made good points and rightly so. Actions of man travel around an orbit of righteous center, within the constraints of mind and matter, governed by the laws of consciousness.
Actions have reactions; physics, karma, sow and reap.
Thanks, Alan! 🙂 (I’m relieved — and not surprised to find out you were being sarcastic… I thought at the time, “That sure doesn’t sound like Alan. I wonder if he’s feeling depressed… .”
Yay!
And YAY for an empty tomb! 🙂
“A four-ship fleet from Japan’s Institute of Cetacean Research traveled to the Antarctic Ocean and killed 333 minke whales. Some 230 were female; about 90% of these were pregnant, according to the {Japanese Fisheries Agency} report. … the Japanese Ministry of Fisheries
saidl1ed in a statement on its website {that t}he purpose was to study the best methods for managing minke populations… Scientific research gets exemption from the 1986 international ban on commercial whaling. … The expedition was part of a 12-year program that will kill 4,000 minke whales.”(CNN’s Paul Ferguson contributed to this report)
(Source: http://edition.cnn.com/2016/03/24/world/japan-minke-whale-333-irpt/index.html )
Oh, btw, Greenpeace DID do something. They tweeted. (Ibid.) Very loudly, too, no doubt. And earnestly. That makes everything okay. If one is in earnest, you know.
******************************************************
Wow. Talk about “follow-the-money.”
Japanese –> kill whales –> make money…..
Greenpeace –> push CO2 agenda instead of protect whales –> make money.
Sickening.
Japanese “Research” vessel killing whale
(youtube)
No, “sickening” isn’t the word. This is ev1l. Given that it is moral (as I believe) to kill animals for food at all, there is no way to humanely kill that animal. (And whales, per se, imo, should not be killed at all except as a mercy killing if they are dying already.)
You know, Eric, I was going to post a beautiful whale video, one that would show the beauty and grace and wonder of these creatures to help people understand why WHAT THE JAPANESE ARE DOING IS SO DESPICABLE. But, I realized that for those who hearts are so cold that such a video would be necessary to elicit sympathy, the video could do no good….
So, I’ll just post it (below, after I’ve found a good one — and in separate comment to avoid sp@m bin) for those of us who love animals. For those with the emotional intelligence to care, to affirm our strongly held opinion that: killing whales (and esp. inhumanely) is just plain wrong.
Thanks for doing what YOU could, here, Eric!
Dwarf Minke Whales (Eye to Eye Expeditions — Australia)
(couldn’t find a beautifully done video that also had a beautiful soundtrack, so this documentary will have to do …. for those “with eyes to see and ears to hear,” it is enough)
(youtube)
The Japanese focus their kill on these whales’ larger cousins, but, as the video says, c. 2010, they killed 16 of the Dwarfs. For research. Had to kill them to research them, you know. Couldn’t hear them anymore…. couldn’t watch them move anymore….. what can you do to research “how to manage” them when they are dead? Hm. Guess they’ll just have to eat them and sit around thinking about it.
As was pointed out in the video, we endanger the whales to a degree by being friendly to them… . I think that, given the need for public pressure (this is mainly a political issue), that the sad truth is that the benefit of the gain in public sympathy which whale tours provide outweighs, in the long run (one hopes! …. how much longer will the Japanese customer continue to buy this…. sigh …. elephant ivory is still cold-heartedly purchased…. and the intelligence and affectionate nature of elephants has been known around the world for decades… AAAAAARRRRRRGH!…. it’s like a drug! If there were no customers, there would be no drug dealers….. why can’t they stop their “addiction” to ivory…. to whale meat?…. etc., etc…??).
End of wailing.
(for now, heh)
Janice, I have to agree to disagree with your sentiment here. Please don’ttake this as a personal insult, that’s not my intent at all.
Firstly, Japanese whalers are only pretending this is research because it’s the only legal loophole open to them hunting a traditional food source; it surprises me that people labour the point of claiming to be amazed at the blatant charade, as if anyone really thinks the Japanese think they’re fooling anyone.
They’re playing the legal game in the same way that the importers of GWiz electric cars play the game and sell inherently unsafe dodgem cars to latte sipping moonbats in London by claiming they’re ‘quadricycles’ which are subject to far less onerous safety standards than ‘cars’.
The International whaling commission issued a moratorium on commercial whaling (primarily relating to expoitation for oil and blubber) because some species were becoming endangered, Minke whales are considered ‘least concern’ in this respect.
What this whole emotive argument boils down to is people deciding that we don’t like whaling on emotional grounds are seeking to impose our point of view on Japanese and Nordic people whose diet traditionally includes whale.
Abodigines in North West Australia are exempted from laws prohibiting the hunting of endangered flatback turtles on account of their traditional diet (even though killing the turtle involves lasooing the rear flippers and stringing them to the gunwhales of the fishman’s boat, causind death by drowning), So Australian’s could be accused of a gross duble-standard with respect to our attitude to some people’s rights to eat what they want.
I guess my biggest concern with many of the remarks I read here today is that there is a familiar tone; if I were to take some of the disparaging remarks directed toward whalers and their clientelle and replace the word ‘Japanese’ with ‘deniers’ wouldn’t it sound like the whining of ecotards who are frustrated that we don’t share their opinion on an emotive/political issue and so would rather just legislate our point of view out of existence?
Happy Easter
If you think the slaughter of sentient beings is on the same moral footing as pushing back against the anti-scientific propaganda of the warmistas and their panic-mongering destruction of our energy infrastructure…words fail me.
I will just say that you are, IMO, completely wrong.
Menicolas, as I mentioned elsewhere here, it is the opinion of the true believers of gullible wamring that the destruction of our energy infrastructure is neccessary to prevent the planet becoming dangerous for their children and ours. You and I are not convinced by the anti-scientific propaganda, but consider what a believer would think of comparing hunting some animals for food on the same moral footing as pushing back against the ‘settled-science’ of gullble warming; they’d be just as indignant as you are right now. They also be equally certain that their opinion is more right and more moral than any alternative and that you were ITO completely wrong.
So you can see why I make the comparison and why your response isn’t such a surprise.
Good thing the Japanese are not in charge of saving the California condors or the whooping cranes. Not sure how killing animals would help you save them.
Indeed. Reminds me of, “We have to pass the bill so you can see what’s in it.” (Democrats re: Obamacare)
“Manage” — that’s the key word! Manage us right into our graves. Or onto the deck of a “research” boat.
+ 1,000
Thanks, Luc!
Janice you are missing the point of this Christian holiday since you brought up religion and morality. Judge not!
It is about how you live your life and not about how others should live their lives. What is moral in one culture is different in another.
As a Christian who served in the military, I gave taking a human life a lot of thought to it. Clearly I would take a life to protect a child.
When you start suggesting some Japaneses are evil, do not complain about the civility of the discussion.
“Oooh, the whales are so beautiful and sing songs, so we cannot eat whale meat.” Give it a rest!
The warmists claim dnrs should be jailed as warming is reducing the whale population but killing them for rich Sushi eaters is OK?
Odd.
This site has great science.
It sometimes deals with man’s inhumanity to man and other species.
What’s the difference between a whale and a cow??
Not definitionally sure, but am reminded of old story:
Confucius says –
“Cow give milk
Milk give whey.
Woman give way, she give milk.
Woman no give way, she cow.”
Does that help?
BTW, with this whale story, has anyone thought to examine the research that the Japanese claim they are doing? Is there not a possibility that it is overall beneficial?
Why do people assume it is bad without bothering to find out what is done?
“Why do people assume it is bad without bothering to find out what is done?”
They like the drama of being upset.
A female whale is a cow.
So is a hot whopper
Tom
I’m surprised you got that one posted without AN AVALANCHE of comments. LOL.
@AndyE, I’m with you on that one. If whaling is illegal in the marine sanctuary, then of course it should have been stopped and if we’re talking about endangered species, like blue whales, then the hunt is to be prevented, but otherwise, why the all the wailing and gnashing of teeth about eating whales when no one bats an eyelid about eating cow, sheep, tuna, shark, reindeer, kangaroo, puffin, duck, wild pig…?
Don’t say it’s because it’s inhumane, because, let’s face it,hooking a fish through the cheek and dragging it, struggling and thrashing against the hook hardly counts as quick and painless (and how many people take their kids fishing on the weekend; maybe it’s because fish can’t scream?), neither does getting shot by an amateur hunter or being run down by a couple of pig dogs before developing a slit throat, or being blasted out of the air with buckshot to then fall to the ground.
While we’re comparing apples and oranges, why aren’t Iceland and Norway condemned for still allowing commercial whaling? (I’ve sampled whale in both countries without needing to know a secret handshake or dodge the local constabulary).
Is there a difference between squashing a roach in your kitchen and shooting a gorilla for sport?
I think most would say yes, and see and understand the difference, both based on the fact that gorillas are sapient beings, and that they are in grave danger of becoming forever extinct.
If a rhino was charging at a village full of people and was going to kill them, shooting it would be an appropriate thing to do if it was the only way to stop it. A person paying to travel to Africa and drive out to the bush in order to shoot a rhino simply so they could say they did is a sick crime, IMO.
I feel sorry for people who are unable to see the difference between a whale and a cow.
I understand but do not agree with people who think it is equally wrong to kill and eat either one.
I do not understand and do not agree with people who say it is the same and no problem to kill and eat either one.
That’s your opinion and you’re welcome to it. So don’t eat whale.
Once you’re finished not eating whale, don’t over-reach and presume that your opinion on the matter is more correct than anyone else’s, nor that you have any business dictating who need’s moral guidance on what they choose to eat.
You arguments here are in exactly the same style as those we hear from gullible warming believers.
Of course there is a difference between squashing a cockroach in your kitchen and shooting a gorilla for sport, but raising the comparison is a feeble strawman and totally irrelevant to this discussion. Whaling isn’t squashing an annoying germ carrying pest in one’s house, nor is it sport; it’s hunting for food. A traditional food in the case of Japanese tastes. What the hypothetical Rhino comparison brings to the discussion is even more elusive; perhaps you’re implying that Rhino and ‘whales’ are equally endangered? In which case you’re plain wrong as has been pointed out more than once in these comments.
Who decides that eating cow is less nasty than eating cow? You?
I certainly did not,so you’ll understand if I go ahead and choose what ever I wish from the menu, with or with out your approval.
You may also understand (although I doubt you will) that I will not presume the right to chastise anyone who’s menu choices are disagreeable to me. For example, as a general rule I like dogs, I think they’re fun and cute, so I don’t choose to eat one. I’m not going to make any pious claims to back my choice up; I won’t suggest that man’s best freind is somehow different to all other animals. At the same time though, I won’t go to Cina and start accusing anyone eating dog that they are vulgar people with no moral compass committing sick crimes or whatever else.That’s not my right, and quite frankly none of my business.
Tell me, are you vegan? I’ll understand you better in that case.
[b]Greenpeace again caught using misleading photos in Great Barrier Reef campaign[/b]
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/greenpeace-again-caught-using-misleading-photos-in-great-barrier-reef-campaign/news-story/7d2dd346c69006b3db81ec65c9768ad4
Paywall
Always makes me laugh that, When queensland stops sending nitrogen runoff to the reef, which has increase 150% in the past decades, storms, predators, competition, natural bleaching, changes in irradiance, bacteria, changes in light, sedimentation, fungi, changes in water flow, starvation or climatic events like El Nino, if Greenpeace can stop all of that, then they might be able to stop corals bleaching.
😀
http://www.uq.edu.au/whale/abundance
Estimated population growth 10 – 11%
“But the whale slaughter has hardly raised a flicker of attention in Australia. Aussie green groups are obsessed with CO2.”
___
Whale numbers have recovered dramatically since the late 1960s, so if people want to harvest certain whale species for food, that’s fine by me. Harvesting Spanish mackerel, squid, anchovies, cattle or sheep for the same purpose doesn’t bother me either. Why would it? So I’ll probably be trying whale soon.
If Greenpeace or Sea Shepherd’s self-appointed saviors, who wear their black panties on the outside, have a problem with the actions or in-action of NZ or Oz government I don’t mind. Who are these people to dictate to anyone? This pro-whale hand-waving has gone on much too long.
If there’s no ‘peep’ being said about it, that’s because it’s being viewed in a balanced perspective. In other words, the repetitive irrational Greenpeace intransigence is what’s on the nose in this part of the world, and the respective Governments are also tiring of having foreign relations deliberately interfered with by Greenpeace’s self-promoting selfish antics.
I totally agree with this. Cows and pigs are also reasonable intelligent creatures but we eat them anyway. The type of whales being caught by Japan are hardly endangered, and a couple of hundred is negligible compared to the overall population.
If one is upset about whales you should focus the discussion on vegetarianism in general. Otherwise, just from a scientific point of view there is no reason for concern.
Cheers
Ben
This issue (as with many on WUWT) has more than one dimension to it, bb.
You grossly oversimplify a complex issue. We can raise and slaughter pigs and cattle humanely. Some people would say the pigs’ intelligence makes eating them immoral. Others would not eat any animals at all (it is their personal philosophy). One can pay more for “free run” eggs (I do — but, I refuse to buy “organic” eggs.)
You appear to fail to distinguish the various scenarios. Whales cannot be killed humanely. They are highly intelligent and show an interest in humans which a cow not raised as a pet EVER will. You haven’t been around many cattle, have you? They are far below whales in their communication ability, etc… . Not that any of this need change your ultimate opinion (that killing whales is okay), just to show that your analysis is flawed. You got to your conclusion not by following the path of logic and reason, but by, essentially, just jumping over the fence into the pig pen yelling, “Science says, ‘kill them!'”
And, yes, a personal philosophical belief would be a “reason.” Vegans may not convince the rest of us that being vegan is “right,” but they would have a reason for their actions. Not a mere unsupported conclusion.
IOW: show your work, scientist benben!
Janice
Killing humanely? That’s an oxymoron.
In this case I will take the place of ‘oxy’ , you, on the other hand, take the place of ‘moron’
Janice: “You grossly oversimplify a complex issue. We can raise and slaughter pigs and cattle humanely. Some people would say the pigs’ intelligence makes eating them immoral.”
___
You over-complicate and over-think a simple proposition.
Proposition: I’m hungry. I can eat a whale, if I can kill it. And I can see no reason to not, just because it has a charming charismatic personality. Life eats life, it always has and always will. Are you going to try to stop predators eating hoofed animals alive next? Convince Inuits eating meat is bad?
But you make a reasonable argument for a more precise and reliable delivery of lethal wounding for killing of whales. Who knows, maybe in 20 years we might be able to laser the brain in a moment or two with a precision 150kw laser slicing through the head like a slicer-dicer auto-cauterizing the flesh in the process, even as a harpoon hits to hold it. Thus there’s much less thrashing for cameras as the brain has already stopped functioning.
Progress huh?
But I’d rather be eaten by a human than a wolf, at least the human would kill me first. There’s nothing wrong per-sec, with killing to eat other animals. During WWII cannibalism became common between Australian and Japanese soldiers fighting in the Owen Stanley ranges of New Guinea, as both sides were starving an poorly supplied. The Japanese side especially did this a great deal, more so as their logistics was cutoff, so they took to eating their own dead soldiers. Being squeamish and refusing to eat, would just mean you’ll be on the menu next.
But yes, we can improve and minimize the suffering of mortal wounds inflicted to kill whales, there’s no reason not to do that, as quickly as technically possible. The same happens when we go fishing, I carry a “donger” stick to smack a fish hard on the head to put them out of it, then bleed them out. Other fishermen insert a knife blade into the brain area for a fast kill.
So blowing or frying the brains out of the whale seems like the least we can do to make sure it’s out of it plus bleeds out quickly. Getting the blood out of the body before it congeals is also important you know? If cattle you can hang them up so it runs out. If fish you cut the gills away. If a whale you either need to keep the heart beating, and turn the water red, or haul it up the stern and let it flow out.
As far as I see it the Japanese are largely doing the right things to kill whales as quickly as possible, bleeding them out so the flesh is not spoiled. Every bit of meat you ever ate was killed and bled like that. Its just the scale that’s different with whales.
The ‘morality’ is no different to opening an oyster on a tidal rock and eating it raw. All this talk of morality about killing and eating an abundance of whales is just so much political correctness and hypocrisy, masquerading as a faux-morality.
I am equally disgusted by the way our food is treated, and how much gets thrown in the bin yearly, which amounts to the biomass of thousands of animals, 10s of thousands maybe millions yearly, discarded.
The Whale killing is unnecessary, no one is going to go hungry by not killing wales for research.
So it goes, if we are already killing more than we eat, why kill more.
Mark March 27, 2016 at 3:31 am
“I am equally disgusted by the way our food is treated, and how much gets thrown in the bin yearly, which amounts to the biomass of thousands of animals, 10s of thousands maybe millions yearly, discarded.”
__
You really believe that Mark?
There’s no ‘waste’. All the alleged waste feeds billions of other critters of every sort. You have to try pretty hard to waste flesh, on this planet. What a lot of people don’t realize is that plants absolutely love having blood and bone poured around their roots. They thrive with a regular applications. As do insects, bacteria and soil quality for future growth. The planet’s life eats every bit of flesh, at some point. Same for edible plants.
The conceptual accusation of human’s food ‘wasting’, is more-or-less fallacious and misleading, another unfounded imputation of human guilt for alleged wrong-doing, but ultimately with no substance. A straw-man to denigrate humans with some more. Not buying it. Nothing is being “discarded”, nothing is lost.
I agree with Janice, Whales are not killed as ” Food ” to feed hungry people, they are a ” Specialty food ” killed to appease the the rich tastes of the elite !
So you’re not against eating whales per-sec? Just the price and availability puts you off? Well, that can be changed, and Australia’s ‘whale sanctuary’ could be duel-use, in that case, and quite the earner. 😉
Ummm, no, that is not what I said…
Alex! You’re reading my comments again. That is progress!
Someday, you and I are going to be friends.
Happy Easter to you, Alex 🙂
Janice
Seems to me I’ve seen crows that make whales seem less than stellar scholars.
what’s the source of the fantasy that whales are extremely intelligent?
i can’t recall any evidence for it…
Janice,
I don’t like whale meat at all.
Tried it a few times in Norway and Iceland, tastes too much like whale liver oil I was forced to drink in winter when I was young, to boost vitamin D. I still have nightmares by thinking about that…
They eat horses here, yes they do (not bad as meat at all). A real horror for any Anglo-Saxon, for whom a horse is (near) equal to a human. We eat cows, a real horror for people from India, where cows are holy creatures. They eat dogs in China and insects in many countries where “white” men only look at in disbelief…
So they eat whale in many Nordic countries and Japan. I don’t see any reason why they shouldn’t, as long as the numbers they catch are sustainable.
Each of these countries catches a few hundred of these mink whales, so all together maybe 1,500 a year, including the Inuit which have a (small) quota.
The latest numbers I have heard of were ~300,000 mink whales in all world seas of which ~60,000 in North Atlantic waters. Seems not a problem for the survival of the species…
What I have read is that the intelligence of whales is at about the same level as for cows, not extremely intelligent compared to dolphins or crows (the latter protected here, but a real pest…). Thus I don’t see a real problem, even I don’t think I would eat it again, ever…
Marcus, Mark, et al, there’s no suggestion that whales are hunted to feed starving people, in Japan, Norway, Iceland and elsewhere whale is a traditional part of the diet. It has been for centuries.
Suggesting it’s an elistist preserve is a feeble strawman that deserves to reside among the pathetic, ignorant utterances in comments sections of the Gauniad. I don’t rub shoulders with the ‘elite’ in Norway (or anywhere for that matter) and only visited Iceland once as a tourist; that hasn’t stopped me sampling whale steaks in both countries more than once (one whale steak we had in Iceland was served with a bonus stuffing of buckshot because in Iceland the coup de grace is delivered by shotgun as it turns out).
By what right do you presume to dictate to people who eat whale that because you disapprove they aren’t allowed to eat it anymore?
In Kazakhstan, horse is very much on the menu; my cousin loves his horses and no doubt would find the concept of eating horse upsetting, they’re gentle, loyal, trusting, supposedly intelligent, interested in people, etc, etc; does he have the right to tell Kazakhs that they can just eat goat instead? It’s not like they’re starving and have no choice after all.
I like eating Kanagaroo, I’m not starving, so I don’t have to eat it but I like it, so when it’s available I eat it (and pay a hefty premium here in Norway), now if you try to tell me that you disapprove and suggest that because hunting wild skippy personally upsets you and it’s not like I’m hungry, blah, blah, blah, then I am going to tell you in unambiguous terms, to have a can of harden the far cup and then shove your opinion where the sun don’t shine.
India will in all likelihood be the next superpower. About 80% of the population are Hindu and they rever the cow as sacred. Suppose Indian’s decide that killing cows is a sacrelige that will not be tolerated from their trading partners and they use their economic and political influence to push for a worldwide ban on the killing of cute, gentle cows. Will you be happy to quit eating beef because it makes 15% of the world’s population happy?
for many of the believers in gullible warming, imposing their misguided opinion on us all could mean the future survival of humanity, frequent readers of WUWT clearly aren’t about to accept such opinion being foisted on us by law or peer pressure. How often do we point out among ourselves that ‘the believers’ are building strawmen, name calling and generally trying to impose their vision of Euphoria on us whether we agree or not? Am I then the only one who sees the irony that WUWT commenters are now quite happy to call ‘the Japanese’ names, suggest that the Japanese should to conform to our point of view on what they can and can’t eat and even go so far as make up sh!t to support an argument which is rooted purely in emotion and opinion?
Janice
I could never be friends with a traffic accident
Erny – love your ironic typo of “Gauniad”. It’s actually Grauniad!
Janice, are whales more intelligent than horses (which are also eaten)? Janice, Indians consider eating cow sacriligeous, so should all cow eating be banned?
I also agree entirely. No different from harvesting cows. Eric’s intemperate words do him no credit.
This Erny72 bloke sounds like a right [pruned] as does yourself.
Your malicious slaughter is some else’s food. Not one was killed for sport. It is called fishing. Is fishing considered degenerate behavior? Because of what psychological research was this concluded?
So, Mr. Kasper, your unstated underlying premise is: a whale is the same as a trout or a halibut. Comes off as a bit ignorant.
You’re being a bit harsh there, Janice. I, personally, don’t think the Japanese have a leg to stand on, in claiming their whaling is done for “scientific” purposes. If you’re going to condemn the Japanese, then you should also be going after Norway and Iceland as well, who openly and overtly hunt whales for food. Norway’s claims are a bit dodgy, but look at a map of where Iceland is geographically. When you’re on a not very productive island (agriculturally speaking), you’re stuck on an isolated island in a harsh oceanic environment, and you’re trying to get enough protein to feed the population, then whaling provides a pretty good bang for the buck.
Of course, I can understand why Sea Shepherd wouldn’t try to mess with Iceland. After Sea Shepherd sank a couple of ships in Reykjavik harbour, I’m sure the Icelandic authorities would be delighted if Paul Watson sailed into the harbour. He would be arrested in a heartbeat.
JCR: I was just trying to address the post’s topic (for the most part). That’s all.
I am a bit confused Janice. What DO you equate whales with? Humans? What is so wrong with equating whales with trout (both swim) or cows (both are mammals) or lobster (if we stopped eating them, no-one would starve)?
No one will go hungry if Japan stops killing whales
And no one will go hungry if we all stop killing lobster.
ANOTHER one. Wow. A whale equated with a lobster. Just wow.
Global warming is the opiate of the greens.
“straining at gnats, and swallowing a camel”. While we’re comparing our relative virtue: if the bleeding hearts want to challenge their conscience, they may consider China’s ‘Dr’ Mengele-like anaesthetic-free torture and murder organ thieving racket – with many thousands of innocent defenceless victims since 2000, and on-going now. Is it because they’re human [only] , or ‘oriental’? Or are we just plain lazy or cowards? These Crimes Against Humanity, of the most egregious depravity – are committed with the complicity of our leading western medical and academic authorities – with barely a peep from us. Makes the pre-WW2 German people look like saints in comparison. [‘Bloody Harvest’ Report – now in it’s tenth !! year].
I’m not sure about the anaesthetic -free stuff. It sounds awfully difficult to remove someones organs for reuse by others with the donor squirming on the table.
This simply demonstrate your ignorance – but you’re not alone. I’ll go slowly for you: There’s this new substance which is used as a paralysing agent – no completely, but. The victim can still scream. The technique improves the transplant success rate.
I’m mostly vegetarian but eat a fair amount of fish (except cruel wasteful catch like prawns and suspect tuna) because there seems to be good evidence that this is a healthy diet. The native Japanese are said to be the biggest pro rata fish eaters in the world and the Japanese diet seems a likely factor in their low mortality from “Western” diseases. Scientific whaling research? I don’t think so….. more likely they are worried about diminishing fish stocks.
These gentle giants don’t have teeth but eat immense amounts of krill and some of them (not sure about Minkes) corralled masses of sardines. Killer whales on the other hand have big teeth and are not gentle about killing their prey, taking hours to kill whale calves and distressing their mothers. They also play-kill seals etcetera, tossing them in the air, making me feel ill seeing those video docos. It’s a cruel world out there and I’d have no problem with people eating killer whales.
Meanwhile it makes me sick that gentle, even trusting, cattle and horses (in Europe), can be cruelly marshalled and then killed and eaten (trucked long distances in Oz, some collapsing). Just look into the eyes of those gentle animals!
One of the reasons that I think the real motive of the Japanese is to increase fish stocks is that they have famously displayed a tendency to claim things foreign to Western morality that amount to them knowing that what they say to their audience is obviously seen as false by their audience. Further that they know their audience must know that their perpetration is in denial of truth.
Sorry, but after that rant I actually believe that a moderate humane harvesting of common whales would in principle probably be a beneficial thing for the ecosystem as a whole given the increasing human populations.
The problem is that the current methodology with prolonged death-throws of the whales is awful.
A humane method is required………..high voltage electrocution maybe…………dunno.
Foreskin divers to attach electrodes to the genitals?
wow…
killer whale videos make me sick, so kill them!
Cows have big brown eyes that prove they are trusting and gentle and people who kill them make me sick!
somebody got stuck in disneyland?
I could almost believe that the Japanese killed hundreds of thousands of innocents during WW11 for ”Research”! Anyhow, there is a general election coming up soon in Australia so the present Prime Minister should be very mindful of that!
OMG . The japanese are going to come to Australia and perform medical experiments on the populace. We know that because they killed 330 minke whales.
Eugenics and horrible research existed in the US and Europe before WWII, the consequences of the US Eugenics program lasted until the 60s.
japan is not alone in it horrific “research”
The consequences of eugenics research continue into the present day.
Hardcore Warmistas and so-called ‘Environmentalists’ are not interested in conservation, animals or people. They are interested in the ‘Cause’ and the grants, funding and jobs that flow from it. It is only about the money. They are not interested in the number of birds killed in wind farms or fried on Solar Farms. So-called eco-fuels force up the price of heating and reduce the availability of food to the poor. Crazed regulations increase the cost of heating and kill the aged and feeble in Winter. The whales of this post are examples of their lack of concern for the environment. The Global ‘Climate Change’ industry is feeding out big money and they are sucking it up with their snouts in the trough.
These so-called ‘Environmentalists’ pure phonies.
Uh…one of the most ‘disconnected’ pieces I have come across on WUWT.
What is more interesting is your desire to share that sentiment.
Mark
I’m with Charles on this one. His desire to share that sentiment (other than it being accurate) probably has to do with expectations that WUWT is primarily a global warming & climate change site.
A emotional discussion of what people think should be on their dinner plate is not even mildly amusing. Having to wade thru this stuff is low value-add.
You feel that you have got “to wade thru this stuff”?
That seems a tad peculiar to this kid.
If something does not interest or amuse me, I simply move on.
To each his own.
Happy Easter…Christ is risen!
While I hate the thought of killing these wonderful mammals I think on this site you need to be careful to be accurate and give all the facts.
1) The photo is a humpbacked whale, not a minke.
2) The estimated minke population is about 800,000. http://www.seashepherd.org/no-compromise/minke-whale-facts.html This means the Japanese are killing about 400 per million. (That seems a familiar number!)
A question. If the majority of the females were pregnant does that the population is in good health and reproducing well or just that pregnant females are slow and easy to catch?
auralay,
Thanks for the update, the latest figures I heard were around 300,000, but that was years ago, seems they are thriving…
Haha, good one! now where have I seen that magical 400 per million figure?
It was the oil industry and the invention of cracking into kerosene that saved the whales, whale oil kept the lamps burning for a long time.
Those evil greedy capitalist oil corporations, at it again.
/s << got the sarc tag, this time