Andrew Montford at Bishop Hill kindly allows me to repost this here.
Anyone would think there was a big climate conference coming up, because the BBC is pumping out the climate propaganda left right and centre. A couple of nights ago we had Kirsty Wark fawning all over Chris Rapley on Newsnight (from 40 mins) and wondering why good people like him weren’t making the policy decisions. Today we have Roger Harrabin on ocean acidification (video here).
The samples are chalky white for millions of years from the fossils of tiny shellfish. That’s until this dramatic point 55 million years ago [the Paleocene-Eocene Thermal Maximum; PETM], when the oceans suddenly got hotter and more acidic and the shellfish disappeared. It took shellfish 160,000 years to recover and scientists say humans are changing the seas ten times faster than at this catastrophic event…
We then get a brief interview with Professor Daniela Schmidt of Bristol University (the recipient, like her colleague Stefan Lewandowsky, of a Royal Society research fellowship). Here’s what she had to say:
My children will be alive in 2100. I would like them to be able to swim above a coral reef and enjoy its beauty. I would like them to be able to eat mussels and oysters and crayfish and if we continue to release CO2 at the current rate this is not going to happen.
Golly. Sounds pretty scary eh? Fortunately I was somewhat reassured by this paper in Geology, by the same Professor Schmidt, which discusses the same abiotic zones in the oceans at the time of the PETM. As the paper draws to a close, Prof Schmidt says this:
[Recent] papers highlight the migration of phytoplankton to follow their niche, and suggest that the extreme warmth led to an absence of calcifiers in tropical waters. Intriguingly, though, this abiotic zone appears several tens of thousands of years after the onset of the extreme temperatures and the acidification, is associated with changes in lithology, and follows a gap in the record.
If the abiotic zone appears tens of thousands of years after the temperature rises, I’m wondering why, when interviewed by Roger Harrabin, Professor Schmidt says she is worried about whether her children are going to see coral reefs and eat shellfish. Perhaps the excitement went to her head.
The rest of the paragraph is worth a look too:
This potentially slow response contradicts everything we know about ecosystem response to decadal temperature variability; for example, the North Atlantic Oscillation (Beaugrand et al., 2009; Beaugrand et al., 2002) or the California upwelling system (Chavez et al., 2003; Chavez et al., 1999). Aze et al. explain the abiotic zone by comparing it to the temperature adaptation of modern foraminifers. One would expect, though, that Paleogene foraminifers which evolved in an ∼15 °C warmer environment than today (Huber and Caballero, 2011) were generally adapted to these warmer temperatures. As so often, new papers ask more questions than they answer, such as: why are these abiotic zones not found at other open ocean sites nearer the equator? If the high-end temperatures are reasonable estimates, these might point to physiological limits at which enzymes start denaturalizing. Given the high metabolic rates in response to these high temperatures, the size of the supply of food needed to sustain the organisms is a pressing question and might have played a role in a regional exclusion. More work is needed, though, to move from assessments of past climates to predictive models for policy makers of the impact of future climate change on marine ecosystems, such as the cascading effects of these potential abiotic zones on food webs.
So the abiotic zone (or is it zones?) are not even seen at all tropical locations! Astonishing. There is quite a lot more to this story than the BBC would like you to know, isn’t there?
I’m not holding my breath for a correction though: Roger doesn’t correct things. The BBC will run with it all day.
Defund…The BBC.
Every innocent person in the uk who owns a screen capable of receiving TV is forced by CRIMINAL LAW to pay for this!!!!
Not quite.
My parents,aged 89 and 86,are not required to buy a license.
M Courtney –
did you mean to say Paul Hudson, whose BBC write-up “Whatever happened to Global Warming?” was published just prior to the release of the Climategate emails & was discussed in the emails by The Team?
27 Nov 2009: Hull Daily Mail: BBC wetherman in global warming row
A BBC Look North weatherman has become embroiled in a national global warming row.
Speaking on his Internet blog, Paul Hudson claimed documents allegedly sent between some of the world’s leading scientists – which discuss how to “spin” climate data – were the result of an article he had written…
Mr Hudson – familiar to East Yorkshire viewers for his light-hearted banter with Look North presenter Peter Levy – wrote: “I was forwarded the chain of e-mails on October 23, which are comments from some of the world’s leading climate scientists written as a direct result of my article Whatever Happened To Global Warming.
“The e-mails released on the Internet as a result of CRU being hacked into are identical to the ones I was forwarded and read at the time and so, as far as I can see, they are authentic.”
Mr Hudson’s online essay, written last month, argued that for the past 11 years there had not been an increase in global temperatures.
It also presented counter-arguments to the belief man’s actions are warming the planet…
When contacted by the Mail, the weatherman said he was not allowed to comment and asked us to speak to the BBC press office…
(FOLLOWED BY BBC SPIN)
http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/BBC-weatherman-global-warming-row/story-11943744-detail/story.html
I’m sure I read somewhere that he passed it on to Roger Harrabin as it was above his pay grade, so to speak.
And also that RealClimate confirmed authenticity of the hack to the BBC early.
As they were sent the emails first.
But I might be wrong.
Science is by definition falsifiable. The main ideas of climatology are not falsifiable. Hence climatology is not science. Do not expect to find science in climatology.
That is rubbish. There’s a body of published research behind climatology, and if the preponderance of it showed something different to the current consensus then the current consensus would be different.
The fact is, however, that the climate signal (AGW) is weak over the short term, and the noise (weather) is strong. That means that you have to adopt some sophisticated techniques such as Bayesian probability, in order to tease the two apart in the short term. Over the long term it is much easier.
The difference is that weather has random and large effects, but about a mean of zero, whereas AGW has a small effect, but, given the current CO2 emissions levels, always in the same direction.
The easiest way to see AGW without the noise inherent in surface temperatures is to look at the NOAA Ocean Heat Content charts since the Argo floats started patrolling the oceans early this century. Virtually all the excess heat at the top of the atmosphere ends up in the oceans, and you can see a steady buildup since the dawn of Argo.
If you want to improve your understanding of signal and noise then read Nate Silver’s excellent book “The signal and the noise” which is also a really good read. Otherwise get yourself educated on climate science – there are a number of good, free, online courses (MOOC’s) available.
We don’t even have any proof that the ocean was more acidic at the time, its all conjecture about CO2. Global warming is ALL CONJECTURE ABOUT CO2.
Seriously, the deeper you go
I live in Somerset, where we seem to have recently found ourselves to have been on the receiving end of a concerted campaign of disinformation.
Primarily conducted by the BBC, the Guardian, Bristol University and the Royal Society.
There was severe flooding in 2011/2012 and 2012/2013. Such that if you look back at this topic you can find records of the discussion of the urgent need for action, back in 2013.
And you can find warnings that if action was not taken then 2013/2014 could be even worse. Exacerbated by high rainfall, the following winter turned out to be the horror story that the “climate change” obsessed media craved.
BUT, if the weather was to blame, then how and why were people predicting this event with clarity in advance? I even found an article from 2013 in which Glastonbury Festival founder, Michael Eavis was warning of the disaster to come the following winter.
Locally, interested and informed people have been quite well acquainted with the causes of this year-on-year increased flooding. The cause was the total suspension 20 years ago of the formerly continual silt removal works on the main man-made channels.
This is understood quite well by local drainage engineers, but sadly, due to the campaign of disinformation created by the usual leftist suspects, we have not been able to shine a clear light on the topic and bring about a return to the “good old days” when the drainage system was continually maintained according to it’s earlier specifications.
When you know the truth about a topic, quite intimately, it is a galling experience to discover that you are on the receiving end of lying, manipulation and propaganda.
It is also remarkable that there are now so many ideologically motivated “experts for hire”, who will fit their presentations around a pre-conceived agenda.
And if the situation is this bad in relation to a relatively simple topic in a modern western nation, then can we trust anything whatsoever that the leftist media has to say about any topic?
When often the topic is complex or the location of the events are inaccessible.
I pity the people of the developing world, if they are subject to this “tyranny of experts” from leftist NGO’s and meddling eco-warrior do-gooders.
In my view, such people are monsters who must somehow be stopped from spending other people’s money and destroying other people’s lives.
Apologies for my utter cynicism. But this is what I have seen and I now can not un-see it.
froggy old soul
We know.
We agree.
We fight it – as best we can.
Thanks for your heart-felt missive – all plainly true.
But ‘THEY’ do not really want to know.
Same with other shortcomings – defence, adoption, justice/prevention of crime, the NHS for goodness sake!
Yours indefatigably –
Auto
Indefatigablefrog, I have had similar experiences with the news. I just tune in to find out about large disasters. Kinda hard to put spin on volcanos and such. One interesting thing that I noticed in my world of aircraft repair is the errors and omission of important details when malfunctions were reported by pilots and technicians. They were trying to get it right. It is possible that some of the reporting errors are just errors but I’m pretty sure the errors are very few.
I’ve read that the reason silt dredging was suspended was that EU rules forbad its being used as a soil topping in agriculture or being dumped offshore, unless it had been purified.
The earth’s crust, while changing over the aeons with tectonic plates shifting and mountains appearing then weathering away and the biosphere going about its business, only contains / conceals an underlying reality of molten sock and who knows what else.
In similar vein the apparent advanced state of human technology these days conceals from immediate recognition the vast depths of human ignorance of science to any depth, leaving the ancient susceptibility to superstition, suggestion, submission to apparent authority and all the other himan weaknesses of the mob well and truly intact and fully functioning.
The only difference now is that the alpha type personalities, all the way up to the psychopaths and sociopaths, who have for so long used superstion, race and religion, now invoke ‘science’ and ‘reason’ as a device in their fear and hate mongering. Of course what is actually peddled is utterly distorted from the rational output of scientific enquiry into a bastardised, distorted, fraudulent synthesis sprinkled with ‘sciency’ terms for effect.
Mods – please – third line – molten rock, I think, not ‘sock’ . . .
Auto
A couple of weeks ago i was in Southern Spain, they have sophisticated sensors in the Mediterranean just off the coast, which measure temperature and pH. The pH was 8.4 which is alkaline and not just slightly so!
As other people have said, we are being subjected to propaganda which at its best is misleading and at its worst, lies.
I have the question why scientists who ostensibly favor reason and evidence fall prey to delusional visions of the end times as easily as fundamental evangelists who of course require no reason and evidence other than their beliefs?
It’s innate human nature to worry about possible doom in the future. Some fixate more than others.
Don’t crayfish live in lakes and streams? Did she mean she wanted.her kids to eat lobster? Crayfish can already live in very varied water temps. The ones in central park New York have to live in conditions rangimg from 32 – 80 degrees F.
Correction of title ought to have been Science say one thing – so called scientists an other. So called are all calling themselves scientists trying their best to avoid Theories of Science…..
I’m reading a cartoon from the Colorado Springs Independent, They’ve linked racism, ownership of guns, killings in Charleston, AND denial of global warming to apparently the same subset of people. I’m married to an Asian ( I’ve been told I’m still a racist though), don’t own a gun (maybe I should), had nothing to do with Charleston or the mass killings in Syria…. tsk, tsk….. I’m a critic of global warming. I guess that makes me ignorant and stupid regardless of the science. Let’s say I don’t believe, key word ‘believe’ , the politically correct science. It’s a “Confederacy of Denial”. I’ll have to go to North Korea where hardly is heard a dissenting word, and the skies are not cloudy all day… We have to do it for the children!!!!! They won’t know what snow looks like or eat shellfish, OMG, this is horrible!!! ( sarc just in case)
If you want to understand the conservative-hierarchical-individualistic effect better, here’s a good starting link – http://www.culturalcognition.net/blog/2013/6/10/what-are-fearless-white-hierarchical-individualist-males-afr.html .
Incidentally, I’ve not come across “racism” as one of the characteristics of the conservative-hierarchical-individualistic effect, but certainly opposition to gun control and AGW are defining characteristics. Most likely racism is more evenly distributed in the population than in just one particular cultural grouping.
The conservative-hierarchical-individualistic effect is an example of “identity protective cognition”, describing the tendency of people to fit their perceptions of risk (and related facts) to ones that reflect and reinforce their connection to important affinity groups, membership in which confers emotional, and material benefits.
If you’d like to understand the left and how it supports CAGW, you should read Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals.
I understand it perfectly. The term denier is directly tied to the holocaust. It’s pure propaganda. It’s just another in a long list of tactics to silence anybody that disagrees with the religion of AGW on any grounds, up to and including criminalizing any evidence that contradicts AGW on the basis of future massive deaths. ( Which should have occurred already and hasn’t)
The BBC would be well advised to stop and reconsider this blatant brainwashing. For years people, mainly women have been sent to prison for failing to pay their licence fee. It is highly questionable whether the human rights laws permits a person to be brainwashed at their own expense under threat of imprisonment and if someone decides to use this defence and wins, the compensation bills will certainly be the end of the BBC as it stands.
While the aristocracy, the politocracy , the literati and the gliterati all support the climate change cult it is increasingly being questioned by the majority and no longer just by the tiny technologically elite minority with an education superior to that of the climate scientists. This factor is also important for the future well being of its income.
You don’t have to receive live TV broadcasts and therefore do not have to pay the license fee. If you only ever access programmes time shifted on the Internet you do not need a license.
And concern for climate change are considerably more widespread, even in USA and UK, than your statement would suggest :
ROFL! Yeah, now try looking at the same people being asked if they would support paying a little more of their money to try to mitigate it. Answer: NO. Look where their concern for AGW falls on a list of other issues such as jobs, economy, etc. Answer: Near the very bottom. Obviously they’re not very concerned about it at all. What’s more, yougov polls aren’t particularly reliable.
Now actually try reputable polls on the subject. Including the one about if they would pay a few bucks out of their own pockets to support more action (hint, answer: no).
Since units of wind power from the US interior are now cheaper than the fuel costs alone of CCGT gas generation (with some hedging for future prices built in), the American public won’t be put to any noticeable trouble as far as price hikes go.
Abolish all subsidies for fossil fuels (including the hidden subsidy of health care costs for air quality problems caused by coal generation), and you won’t need to pay out a penny to move to renewables.
The CEO of First Solar is saying he does not care now whether the ITC (which soon falls from 30% to 10%) gets renewed back to 30%. He says the 20% tax credit difference is equivalent to only 18 months of natural solar PV price drops, and it has reached the stage where he thinks the solar industry would be better off without it and the political wrangling which goes with it. Plus he thinks by 2025 units of power from solar will be in the range 3 to 3.5 cents / kWh by 2025. More immediately he sees the total capital costs of utility-scale solar PV dropping to $1 per watt by 2017.
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/First-Solar-CEO-By-2017-Well-be-Under-1.00-Per-Watt-Fully-Installed
Already US utilities are planning to instal wind and solar on the basis they save money overall, while retaining their fossil fuel generation only for the times the wind is not blowing and the sun is not shining.
Georgetown goes renewables on cost basis alone
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-18/texas-city-pulls-plug-on-fossil-fuels-with-shift-to-solar-power
They’ve locked in a low power price for the next 20 years – something which the fossil fuel suppliers could not do. Plus they save on water usage.
New Poll Shows Voters Are Ready To Pay To Blunt Climate Change
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/06/11/3447500/poll-voters-climate-change/
It seems $20 per month is the going rate that Americans are prepared to pay to blunt climate change. Overall 62 – 33 percent majority (second poll 63 – ?%) for paying more, with the Republican party supporters only 46-49.(second poll 51 – ?%).
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/31/us/politics/most-americans-support-government-action-on-climate-change-poll-finds.html?_r=0
It is obvious to me that when a postee uses a prefix to their posting name at this site of “climate *blah*” one can easily know that that postee is posting garbage!
The science is settled, bombastic rhetoric is all they have.
Patrick,
The sounds like an ideal self-justification for not reading any links supplied as evidence when you suspect you may not like the contents if you do read them.
But if you only wish to read stuff which confirms your current opinions that is your free choice.
Hang on, I have a question being a dumb layman. If CO2 is causing warming, the more CO2 the more warming (forgetting logarithmic absorption low sensitivity parameter etc) Now, if oceans absorb CO2 when it cools and release CO2 when it warms wouldn’t the warmer temperatures lead to LESS CO2 in the ocean?