Robert Bussard, one of the giants of the field, claimed to his dying day he had cracked the problem
Above: a homemade “fusor” similar to the Polywell nuclear fusion reactor
Guest essay by Eric Worrall
Not many people have heard of Robert Bussard, but he was one of the giants of nuclear fusion research. But if an engineering solution for viable small, household size nuclear fusion reactors is ever discovered, they will almost certainly be largely based on Bussard’s work.
Bussard’s focus was on a field of Nuclear fusion research known as electrostatic confinement. Unlike the better known magnetic bottle reactors, such as the $20 billion ITER project, electrostatic confinement can be applied to fusion plasmas which are the size of a small glass fish tank.
Electrostatic confinement has been well known since the 1930s. Small electrostatic nuclear fusion devices are sold commercially – as neutron sources. A small nuclear fusion reactor is an incredibly convenient way to produce a dense stream of neutron radiation, because as soon as you switch off the power, the plasma cools, and the radiation stops.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_generator
The problem is nobody has figured out how to extract more energy out of an electrostatic fusor, than you put into it. There is a long list of problems to be solved. One of the big problems with viable nuclear fusion is keeping the plasma hot enough – when you heat something to millions of degrees, it really wants to shed some of its heat. In electrostatic confinement systems, the violent acceleration / deceleration, as charged plasma particles bounce off the high intensity electric fields, causes a significant cooling of the core. There are also problems with the electrodes – keeping an electrode from melting, when it is in close contact with a superheated gas, is a significant engineering challenge.
Bussard at the end of his life, claimed to have solved these problems. He built a small prototype using a grant from the US Navy. Right up to his dying day, he was trying to raise funds, to build a full scale prototype, of his Polywell nuclear fusion reactor design.
The late physicist Robert Bussard worked for decades to try to show Polywell fusion could work, using a variety of Wiffle-Ball configurations. Just before his death in 2007, he claimed that he was getting close to solving the challenge with his WB-6 device.
After Bussard passed away, other researchers picked up the baton at EMC2 Fusion in New Mexico and continued building test devices. Most recently, Park and his colleagues used a redesigned Wiffle-Ball test device in a San Diego lab to show the Navy that their configuration could enhance plasma confinement even under incredibly high pressure — pressure levels that could not be achieved by, say, the ITER reactor.
Bussard’s prototype might not have worked. However Bussard was an extremely credible fusion researcher – unlike some rather dodgy characters in the “bubble” fusion field, Bussard really might have made that crucial breakthrough. When you consider the eye watering sums which are wasted on renewables, such as the huge loss sustained by the Federal Government when Solyndra collapsed, it really seems a shame that Bussard never got a chance to take the final step, to realise his dream of seeing his ideas tested in a full scale prototype.
More: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_W._Bussard
They’re used as neutron sources? And that’s not a problem for a home reactor — why?
Gammas, in sufficient amounts, will kill you, of course. So will a big enough neutron dose. But gammas will not, cannot make anything else radioactive. Neutrons can and will. Conventional nuclear reactors generate radioactive . . . let’s say “waste” because we don’t have further use for most of it. Much of this is a byproduct of neutron absorption by reactor components, including shielding.
A neutron-source home reactor is going to need shielding — shielding that, once neutron-irradiated, isn’t a “cure worse than the disease”.
For this reason, I’ve never understood why fusion is touted as “clean” energy.
Oh, that question is simple. Most people don’t know anything about it and therefore have zero knowledge of any dangers. So therefore there aren’t any dangers and it will be clean.
The high neutron flux rates are due to the fuels used. Deuterium and Tritium. If the Proton Boron reaction could be made to work neutron production would be about 1,000 to 1,000,000 times less. You will still need shielding. It is not a home reactor. A neighborhood reactor is possible. Especially wit direct conversion of the energy released to electricity.
Here is some of the latest on WB-8.1:
http://arxiv.org/abs/1406.0133
High Energy Electron Confinement in a Magnetic Cusp Configuration
Jaeyoung Park, Nicholas A. Krall, Paul E. Sieck, Dustin T. Offermann, Michael Skillicorn, Andrew Sanchez, Kevin Davis, Eric Alderson, Giovanni Lapenta
(Submitted on 1 Jun 2014)
We report experimental results validating the concept that plasma confinement is enhanced in a magnetic cusp configuration when beta (plasma pressure/magnetic field pressure) is order of unity. This enhancement is required for a fusion power reactor based on cusp confinement to be feasible. The magnetic cusp configuration possesses a critical advantage: the plasma is stable to large scale perturbations. However, early work indicated that plasma loss rates in a reactor based on a cusp configuration were too large for net power production. Grad and others theorized that at high beta a sharp boundary would form between the plasma and the magnetic field, leading to substantially smaller loss rates. The current experiment validates this theoretical conjecture for the first time and represents critical progress toward the Polywell fusion concept which combines a high beta cusp configuration with an electrostatic fusion for a compact, economical, power-producing nuclear fusion reactor.
Comments: 12 pages, figures included. 5 movies in Ancillary files
Subjects: Plasma Physics (physics.plasm-ph)
Cite as: arXiv:1406.0133 [physics.plasm-ph]
(or arXiv:1406.0133v1 [physics.plasm-ph] for this version)
Good post. Thanks for the link.
As always, the devil is in the details and in the case of fusion confinement there is no shortage of details that remain to be addressed.
My 8;54 comment to Dr. Brown’s post – which was in moderation for some time – has been summarily deleted, without even a snip to mark its doomed passage here.
Happy Birthday to Dr. Brown anyway.
My 8:54 post has re-appeared. Thank you.
What are you talking about? I can see it.
Isn’t the picture above a homemade Farnsworth fusor rather than a Bussard polywell? The polywell doesn’t have the central electrode which is one of the main problems with Farnsworths (along with losses to Bremsstrahlung radiation).
To me Farnsworth is the true father of the fusor / polywell and so many other things like television, a true visionary.
It is a Farnsworth Fusor in the first pic. 🙂 IIRC, that also is a IC field?
Yes. More specifically it looks like a form of the Farnsworth-Hirsch fusor, designed in 1964-67. Physicist Robert Hirsch ran the US fusion program during the 1970s, and walked away when he decided that it would not succeed with our current level of tech. His peers though him crazy, but time has showed the accuracy of his assessment.
He reinvented himself as an energy expert, and has played a major role giving advice — which we’ve largely ignored.
For more about the F-H Fusor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor
http://www.protias.com/Pictures/Futurama/good%20news%20everyone.jpg
That’s brilliant.
Because it works.
Oh god. I really can’t read it without imagining it in his voice.
The true Power of Science!
Robin,
you are correct, that is indeed a Farnsworth Fusor. Most require He3 and Deuterium to run. Deuterium is plentiful, but useful quantities of He3 would need to be harvested from Antarctic ice, deep sea volcanic vents or lunar regolith to make this type of fusion viable.
The device shown cannot harvest energy, but it could if the anode and cathode cages were made of hollow fluid cooled tubes.
Lunar regolith harvesting would prove to be a fiscal disaster. You’d be better off skimming it from the atmosphere of Saturn.
Hey, I’ve played in that RPG setting!
As I remember it, 50+ years ago, we were pretty good at making ridiculously large amounts of fusion happen. Trouble was, the energy wasn’t being captured, and it didn’t go on for very long. All we seemed to do was leave very large dents in some coral atolls.
One could drive a really large 2-stroke motor with that.
Yep. That was basically the Project Orion concept.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_%28nuclear_propulsion%29
Cheers
Just because fusion is self-sustained in stellar masses does not imply that it can be sustained in less than stellar masses.
Can someone educate me as to why folks think small scale fusion is plausible?
It’s plausible because it’s being done right now. Getting it past break-even is the challenge.
That is the point.
It takes more energy to compress the matter than is created by the fusion reaction. Gravity supplies the compressive force in massive stellar objects.
Yes. The fact that fusion is self sustained in stellar masses does not imply that it can be sustained in less than stellar masses. The notion that it can be sustained in less than stellar masses does not derive from the fact that it is self sustained in stellar masses, but rather from an understanding of the physics involved.
First off, it’s not only plausible, it’s not that difficult. For instance, a teenager has constructed a fusion device, along with many other ‘hobbyists’. The real question is, what is required to get more energy out of a fusion reaction than is required to sustain it. The Lawson criterion pertains to this. But essentially, while it’s a very difficult and very expensive engineering R&D problem right now, there is no theoretical reason that prevents small scale nuclear fusion from producing more energy than is required to sustain the reaction. On the contrary, our theoretical understanding of the physics involved indicates it can be done.
Hope this helps.
You are probably right. Maybe the word “impossible” is wrong. Taylor’s trying:
The Lawson Criteria is not directly applicable to bimodal energy distributions as found in Polywell.
As a necessary (but not sufficient) reply, let me note that the weak-mediated p-p reaction that the Sun uses
is universally conceded to not be possible in less-than-stellar masses. However, all commercial research that I know of is looking at the strong-mediated D-T reaction. Entirely different mechanisms and reaction rates.
Let me try another approach. We have fusion bombs that release vastly more energy than is required to initiate the reaction, obviously. No stellar masses involved.
There is a significant engineering challenge involved in harnessing that energy in what we generally accept as a safe and acceptable way to produce electricity. There is no theoretical barrier to doing so, however, it’s just darned expensive and difficult, not all of the practical difficulties are well understood yet (such as turbulence in the plasma messing up magnetic containment) and the requisite time and effort has not yet been expended to resolve the problems.
How about an giant subterranean cavern, with big pipes imbedded in the surrounding rock to transport the heat to a turbine. Just set of a bomb every once in a while. Have to be deep enough and big enough to completely contain the blast.
Oh, hell, we can just put the pipes down where the earth is really hot and forget the cavern and the nukes. Or, just use the fusion reactor we already got.
It’s a biggun!
Sorry Dave, cross posted on my second post. 🙂
As another old engineer who has been doodling on engines, motors, and power sources of all kinds for at least 50 years, I am always a bit amused by the idea that fantastic concepts are routinely killed by vested interests.
The GEs of the world do not have profit and power because they rested on the past, but because they seized new ideas by buying, begging , or stealing them and finding a profitable way to bring them to the largest possible market.
A classic example was “cold”, i.e. ice, which could only be produced in large factories and distributed daily into homes. When a better technology came along, large corporations saw that this was a space with a high threshold of entry, high profit, and a huge potential market, and jumped in with both feet. Home refrigeration became common in the U.S. within a decade.
I see no reason why LENR or some other means of providing safe limitless heat or electricity from an appliance would not create a similar product cycle if the technology became available. Yes, there would be losers, the modern equivalent of the ice houses and delivery carts of the 1930s, but the potential winners would still clamber to jump aboard such a huge value-priced market and grab a dominant market share, losers be dam*ed.
Thinking the same thing, thanks and as far as another point in your comment ( regarding profits and losses) is concerned, is that nowhere on all these post has anyone mentioned if fusion reactors produce plastic.
Viable fusion generators are only 10 years away. Just like they were 30 years ago 😉
Yes and we only have 15 year worth of oil left, just like we had 100 years ago.
This seems to be rather old “news”. Nebel et alia received funding from the Navy years ago, but I haven’t heard of any new developments for some time.
Hot fusion is going to take a long time to reach break even but lattice assisted nuclear reactions are already here. But since the sheep are told its fake they believe it….
MIT has a wonderful 3 day cold fusion course. Its real science once you understand what is going on..
The Navy dropped fusor research after Rider, and Thorsten came up with three separate reasons the Inertial electrostatic confinement idea general could not acheive unity (as much energynoutnas in). They are neutron generating sources, nothing more.
Whether the Lockheed Skunkworks high beta magnetic confinement approach is scalable to commercial energy production is unclear. I woild have thought the Navy and DoE woild have been all over it if so. The program has gone radiosilent, so perhaps dark.
Seems to be enough to LENR (Widom Larsen theory, a weak force phenomenon) to merit more investment than the little flier NASA announced, especially since their laser/micromachined surface phonon approach to generating’heavy’ electrons obviously isn’t scaleable. Wrote a section on LENR in Arts of Truth.
BTW, the US has invested over $7 billion in inertial confinement fusion ( the NIF) with zero prospect of acheiving useful energy production ever. Essay Going Nuclear,
The Navy did not drop the research after Rider. Rider’s fundamental error with respect to Polywell was to assume a uniform distribution of energies. Polywell in fact is based on a bimodal distribution. Look up the [work] J. Park and R. Nebel did for the Navy. It did not end until 2014.
I had the following communication from Rider, in 2007, via email:
Thanks for tracking me down. Here is the info I have been sending out in response to similar recent inquiries. Please let me know if you still have any questions after reading it. You are quite welcome to post this complete response and the attached files anyplace on the web where they might be helpful to other folks with the same questions. I am nearly computer illiterate when it comes to the internet… 🙂
Once upon a time, I was wowed by the idea of IEC fusion. When I was an undergrad working in other fields, I picked up T.A. Heppenheimer’s The Manmade Sun, a history of the fusion program. It contained 2-3 pages on the Farnsworth-Hirsch poissors/fusors and their eye-popping 10 billion neutrons per second; a separate section covered Bussard’s Riggatron tokamak project and its seemingly premature death. I was fascinated by the idea of scientific underdogs with great ideas, and I devoured all of their papers and patents. That made me decide to pursue fusion (among other things) in grad school. The two strands of fusion ideas merged when Bussard picked up the old Farnsworth approach about the time I was starting my thesis research at MIT. I hoped to take their cumulative work and find ways to push it a few steps closer to realization. To bring myself up to speed, I first went back through all of Bussard’s and everyone else’s basic calculations about the approach. And I found massive errors everywhere–incorrect assumptions and/or incorrect calculations of a variety of effects. The rest is history… I assume you know about my M.S. ’94 and Ph.D. ’95 theses from MIT, as well as my various journal articles and conference presentations based on them. The M.S. thesis points out all the errors and fatal flaws in IEC, and the Ph.D. thesis generalizes the results to limitations on all IEC and all non-IEC fusion approaches.
In a nutshell, there are a large number of fatal flaws with IEC and related approaches, each flaw independent of the others and each far more than sufficient to keep IEC from ever producing net power. This isn’t simply a “he said, they said” disagreement. These are all very well documented and established plasma physics effects, found in textbooks all the way back to the 1950s and able to be accurately predicted for lab experiments. Moreover, the physical basis of each problem can be explained even without the accompanying mathematical analyses. These problems include, but are not limited to:
(1) Bremsstrahlung radiation. Ions must be given very high energies (equivalent to very high temperatures) to stand a decent chance of fusing when they run into each other. Unfortunately, the ions are very generous and promptly give much of this energy to the electrons. Electrons have a very low mass and are easily pushed around whenever they run into an ion or even another electron. Every time an electron runs into something, it slams on its brakes and emits a loud squeal–a bremsstrahlung X-ray. Thus a great deal of the input energy gets turned into useless X-rays, not fusion reactions. This is true for all fusion approaches, not just IEC. Bremsstrahlung is a relatively insignificant problem for deuterium + tritium fuel, which fuses at comparatively low energies. It is a large but theoretically tolerable problem for deuterium + deuterium and deuterium + helium-3 reactions, which require higher energies. Even with the most optimistic assumptions, the bremsstrahlung power loss is much larger than the fusion output power for all other fuels, including helium-3 + helium-3, proton + boron-11, and proton + lithium-6. My theses and papers used the most accurate standard methods of calculating the ion-electron energy transfer and bremsstrahlung losses, including relativistic and other effects. Nonetheless, I was able to show that the ion-electron energy transfer or bremsstrahlung would have to be miraculously lowered by a huge factor, at least 10 to 100 times, in order for the X-ray losses to be tolerable. In all of the papers I have seen from IEC and related researchers, bremsstrahlung is ignored entirely, the ion-electron energy transfer is ignored, or one or the other is merely assumed to be artificially low without providing any physical justification.
(2) Ion-ion collisions. Ions are all positively charged and thus strongly repel each other at close range. Only every once in a while do they quantum-mechanically “tunnel” through that repulsive barrier and fuse together. Even at high energies, two colliding ions are 100-1000 times more likely to randomly scatter off each other than to fuse. IEC, colliding-beam fusion, and related concepts assume that the ions all keep the right velocity pointed in the right direction. Yet collisions will turn these organized beams into a bell curve distribution of velocities going in all directions 100-1000 times faster than the time that would be required for a significant number of the ions to fuse. IEC and related approaches generally provide no mechanism to “herd” the ions back to the desired velocities, but even if they did, my Ph.D thesis and papers showed that even the most efficient such mechanism would consume too much power. You are fighting entropy, and entropy will win. Just like death and taxes.
(3) Electron-electron collisions. A very similar process occurs for the electrons, converting any preferred electron distribution into a random bell curve distribution. Again, any attempt to fight this entropy generation would consume far too much energy, as shown in the theses and papers.
(4) Counter-streaming electrostatic instabilities. Particles in orderly colliding beams are determined to reach a three-dimensional bell curve distribution. In addition to individual collision events as described above, the whole population of particles can act collectively via electrostatic or electromagnetic fields to rebel. Such mass rebellions are called instabilities. Colliding beams and particles outside the central core of an IEC are subject to the well-documented counter-streaming instabilities, in which particles bunch and unbunch like a Slinky, rapidly destroying any initial order in the system.
(5) Weibel electromagnetic instabilities. These approaches are also subject to Weibel instabilities, in which ions and electrons wiggle side-to-side, again destroying any initial order in the system.
(6) Ion upscattering losses from IEC well. The basic idea of IEC is that all the ions have too little energy to escape from the electrostatic potential well in the center of the plasma. However, once collisions and/or instabilities have randomized the ion distribution, ions in the upper tail of the bell curve will have enough energy to escape. Once they do, other ions are randomly scattered to reform the tail of the bell curve, and then they escape too. These escaping ions represent a power loss greater than any fusion output power.
(7) Losses of ions hitting grids in gridded IEC (Farnsworth-Hirsch) devices. Most IEC devices have high-voltage grids inside the plasma to create the potential well. Even with very optimistic assumptions, the power lost by ions hitting these grids is far larger than the fusion output power.
(8) Losses of electrons hitting grids in gridded IEC (Farnsworth-Hirsch) devices. Likewise, even with very optimistic assumptions, the power lost by electrons hitting the grids is far larger than the fusion output power.
(9) Losses of electrons escaping from magnetic cusps in Polywell IEC devices. Instead of grids, Bussard’s Polywell IEC approach uses a polyhedral cusp magnetic field to confine the electrons. Even with very optimistic assumptions, the power lost by electrons escaping at all the cusp points is much larger than the fusion power. As I showed in my theses, any foreseeable method of extracting part of the energy of the escaping electrons would either be vastly inadequate or would actually increase the ion losses instead.
(10) Arcing in direct electric converter and other high voltage grids. Most IEC devices have high-voltage grids, and additional high-voltage grids are frequently proposed to extract energy from escaping particles or fusion products in IEC, colliding-beam reactors, and related approaches. Marshall Rosenbluth, the widely acknowledged “dean” of plasma physics, has shown that at plasma densities typical of proposed full-fledged fusion reactors, arcing between these grids due to all the charged ions and electrons would be intolerable (Plasma Physics and Controlled Fusion, vol. 36, pp. 1255-1268, 1994).
These effects may appear relatively small in the sort of low-density, short-pulse IEC or colliding beam experiments that have typically been used to date. Yet the standard formulas of plasma physics, strongly supported by over 60 years of theoretical and experimental results in this field, indicate that every one of these effects will be intolerably large in a full-fledged reactor-scale device. In order for IEC or related approaches to produce net fusion power, they must defy not just one of these standard predictions but *all* of them. And they must be not just a little better than predicted, but for several of these effects they must be a factor of ~100 better than predicted by the basic physical laws. To date, I have not seen any papers from Bussard, Rostoker, Kulcinski, or others that seriously address any of these problems, let alone propose feasible ways to avoid the problems.
In my opinion, there are several conclusions to be drawn from all of this:
(A) Due to problem (1) above, the *only* fusion reactions which can theoretically produce net power in *any* foreseeable fusion reactor, whether conventional or unconventional, are deuterium + tritium (easiest but quite radioactive), deuterium + deuterium (also radioactive), and deuterium + helium-3 (cleaner but still radioactive).
(B) Due to problems (2) through (10) above, the chances of IEC and related approaches producing net power even with those reactions are minute. (Deuterium + tritium may at best be marginal in some non-IEC beam-like systems, but its radioactivity makes it less appealing than the other reactions, and in any event more conventional fusion approaches like tokamaks stand a much better chance of burning it.) No matter how large or how small an investment the IEC researchers may be requesting, potential sponsors should be aware that their gamble is virtually guaranteed not to pay off, due to all of these fundamental physics problems that can be easily seen in advance.
(C) Despite these problems, IEC or similar approaches could be useful for applications *other* than power production. An IEC device is basically a very compact particle accelerator and could be useful for the same applications as larger accelerators, including radioisotope production and production of radiation, especially neutrons.
(D) Several non-IEC, non-colliding beam approaches are not as subject to problems (2) through (10) above and thus are theoretically able to produce net power with deuterium + helium-3. In fact, Bussard, Rostoker, and Kulcinski have worked on many of these approaches, including field-reversed configurations and tokamaks. The engineering challenges for these reactors are admittedly very difficult and may even ultimately be insurmountable, but that cannot be proven from the outset, so such approaches are certainly very worthy of further work.
(E) I believe fusion research is more limited by the lack of good ideas than by the amount of funding available to build larger and larger machines. Perhaps someone could think of a confinement system that would be better than tokamaks and other current approaches that are theoretically feasible but problematic from an engineering standpoint. Or better yet, perhaps someone could find an efficient method to catalyze fusion reactions, so that a given input energy would yield significantly more fusion output. (Spin-polarized and muon-catalyzed fusion were two clever but ultimately inadequate attempts to do just that.)
To summarize, I would love to see a working, power-generating fusion reactor, especially one that would be less radioactive than the deuterium-tritium reactors that are normally proposed. There are many technological and physical challenges that must be overcome in order to do that, and to overcome them one must openly acknowledge those challenges and then find clever ways around them. Unfortunately, the inertial-electrostatic confinement and colliding-beam fusion researchers have not even attempted to do that. They may choose to ignore the basic laws of physics in designing and building their prototype fusion devices, but when the switch is turned on, I doubt that the laws of physics will return the favor by ignoring them.
If you would like independent confirmation of the physics principles I have outlined, please feel free to contact Peter Catto at the MIT Plasma Science and Fusion Center (catto@psfc.mit.edu, 617-253-5825) or Bill Nevins at Lawrence Livermore National Lab (nevins1@llnl.gov, 925-422-7032). They are both familiar with the IEC approach and my analyses.
I am attaching five .pdf files of several of my journal articles and conference presentations on this topic. Please let me know if you have any problems opening these files or if you have any other questions.
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N.B. I either don’t have the pdf’s, anymore, or else they are stashed away on some hard drive in storage. Rider’s email (at the time) was thor@ll.mit.edu .
I’m not going to go into Riders objections point by point. It would take a while. Let me simply state that the people doing the research do not consider them show stoppers. And there his no one in the field who is not aware of his objections.
One point of interest. Rider no longer works in the field.
M Simon,
It might take a while but I have to say I would absolutely tear my own arms off to read rebuttals/discussions to these points, many of which I have heard, and in fact I know Bussard himself has discussed at some point.
Perhaps you could prepare a guest post, or a post in response to this on talk-polywell.
I find electrostatic inertial fusion to be absolutely as fascinating a thing in science as I have ever encountered, I think partly because the physics is so readily understandable, and the enormous energies and temperatures tittilating, and the elegant solutions required to deal with them endlessly interesting.
If a viable, safe, NON POLLUTING, economical fusion reactor were ever invented, you can bet that Green Peace and the other “environmental” groups would devote massive sums of money to prevent its use.
Recall the Club of Rome;
” ……and thus the “real enemy, then, is humanity itself….believe humanity requires a common motivation, namely a common adversary in order to realize world government. It does not matter if this common enemy is “a real one or….one invented for the purpose………”
In case anyone was wondering why the AGW fraud lives on , irrespective of real world observations refuting this fraud, well, now you know. It is a POLITICAL MOVEMENT.
And you thought that ruling elites and their nomenklatura had dies off with the demise of the USSR; you would be wrong.
The sun produces energy equivalent to 100 trillion lbs of dynamite exploding per second.
I can see the appeal of solar power.
Unfortunately while solar power is more practical than using an extension cord from the sun to to the earth, economically it is a poor choice amoung energy sources.
Shame really, all that energy, 100 trillion lbs of dynamite exploding per second…
“The problem is nobody has figured out how to extract more energy out of an electrostatic fusor, than you put into it.”
A big part of that is an inability to achieve ignition (meaning a self sustaining reaction). Existing fusion reactors require the continuous input of huge amounts of energy to keep the reaction going.
I have a thought on this, though I don’t know enough to know if it’s a viable thought. Perhaps if Dr Svalgaard sees this, he can comment.
Most of the proposals I have seen for generating electricity from fusion reactors involve using the emitted neutrons to heat water to turn turbines, and all of the existing reactor designs whether some form of magnetic bottle or electrostatic containment will simply loose all the generated free neutrons.
However, look at the one stable fusion reactor we have that is readily observable, the Sun. Between it’s massive gravity and the density of the solar plasma I rather doubt that all of the neutrons generated by solar fusion manage to escape to space.
I suspect that the key to self sustaining fusion reactors is to find a way to deflect at least some of the neutrons back into the reactor.
The p-p fusion that the Sun uses does not generate neutrons.
The balanced 4(1H + 2 e) –> 4He + 2 neutrinos + 6 photons makes it appear so, but reality is messier. 3He gets produced too, meaning one got away – either as a free neutron or proton, but neither stays free long in the sun’s core. All the particle exchanges going on under the extreme conditions there tend to even it out though.
@notfubar: True, I should have said, “does not produce free neutrons”. I think, though, that the neutron produced by the initial weak-mediated p-p reaction is immediately bound with the other proton into a deuteron.
I dunno. To make sustainable hydrogen fusion by natural means, a plasma density of about 100 g/cc is needed. This is most achievable in an object that has about 0.1 solar masses. If you would like to pressurize to the required density at earth’s gravity, a vessel of nonobtanium will be needed.
Perhaps a more practical approach is to create short term nuclear fusion events, i.e. explosions, and then capture the energy somehow. To do this, some kind of phase change comes to mind. Maybe you melt
rock and store the energy as lava, for example.
I don’t think the government will grant me a mountain range to try out this idea.
Yes. This is the idea behind inertial confinement fusion.
If as in the ramjet, the energy released is moved rapidly as not to be confined in a way that melts the ramjet or ram-fusion jet, then heat capturing can produce steam or molten whatever for energy producing desired rotating generators. The fusion pulse is from the nozzles or is injected at the moment of fusion. So far to date, the process is engineered in a confined space.
P.S. You can pay me later… 🙂
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikibooks/en/d/dc/Ramjet-schematic-kk-20050816.png
A near-light speed ionized hydrogen gobbling ramjet using magnetic fields to guide and compress (with assistance of the shockwaves) was behind the science fiction Bussard Ramjet. It has to go _really_ fast in order to work. A fusion torch like that would be visible a long way away. Just remember, a non-ionized sand grain striking the hull could ruin your day. (…also, shielding requirements are left as an exercise for the student…)
Must’ve been Roger Ramjet’s engine:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Ramjet
would unobtanium in its place?
Sorry, it is quite possibly even handwavium.
I believe that if any engineering feat is possible, nature would have done it already.
Flying- nature beat us to it with insects, pterodactyls, birds, and bats.
electric power- nature beat us to it with lightning..
solar energy- nature beat us to it with green plants
nuclear fission nature beat us to it with a naturally occurring reactor in Gabon about 2 billion years ago.
As to fusion, the smalles reactors in existence have a mass about 1/10th that of the sun, and they only burn about 1 trillionth of their fuel each year. I don’t see fusion as a viable energy source, ever.
Spacecraft?
Nature certanily beat us on interplanetary travel
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/2013/nov/21/oldest-minerals-from-mars-found-on-earth
🙂 You win.
I disagree with your argument that because nature hasn’t done it to the scale we’re trying it can’t be done, but I understand what you’re saying. At least I think I do.
Humans can certainly make more EFFICIENT vehicles than occur in nature, but the universe ccontains a limitless amount of material and has had 13.7 billion years of time, so I suspect that most of what CAN be done HAS been done naturally. You’re right on details,, nature hasn’t built any internal combustion engines like railroad engines, planes, or automobiles, Humans can improve on nature’s engineering, much as Alexander Graham Bell used already invented equipment ingeniously rearranged to create the telephone.
Nature’s lasers?
All we have to do is arrange a series of conditions that are more improbable than nature can arrange in the lifetime of the universe.
We are well into that order of complexity on things like chip design…
http://laserstars.org/news/MWC349.html
“When you consider the eye watering sums which are wasted on renewables, such as the huge loss sustained by the Federal Government when Solyndra collapsed, …….”
The loss was not sustained by the Federal Government; the loss was sustained by you and me, our children and our grandchildren. The government has no money to lose. That’s why it’s so easy for it to spend, since it is spending other people’s money.
General Fusion is also trying some “new” old stuff…
http://www.generalfusion.com/
This makes me nostalgic for my childhood in England in the 1950s and 60s. Then, there was huge optimism about the Zeta project: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZETA_%28fusion_reactor%29 Alas…
There’s been a comment or two bemoaning the government’s wasteful expenditure of money into green energy boondoggles and climate research, and wishing that some of that money was spent researching this energy source. I think the following well known quote goes a long ways towards explaining why:
“Giving society cheap, abundant energy would be the equivalent of giving an idiot child a machine gun.”
That was from Dr. Paul Ehrlich. I think it might be important to note that John Holdren collaborated with Paul Ehrlich in the past and is currently President Obama’s national science advisor.
The Obama administration is aware of Polywell. They have allowed some funding. Not near enough for a full scale test. And that funding has ended.
if this is just about fusing deuterium and tritium into helium, then ok. But if anyone were so bold as to engage in the triple-alpha process, well then there would be a carbon tax. ref
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple-alpha_process
Haw haw.
DOE is now finally paying attention to alternative fusion devices, instead of relying on ITER (which is 20 years away from even firing off test dataand $50 million in cost)… LPPFusion in Middlesex, NJ has already met two of the three Lawson criteria and closing in now on the third (density)… with a recent series of upgrades LPPFusion will have releasing test data starting in the next six weeks or so.
http://lawrencevilleplasmaphysics.com/contact/
Sorry… ITER estimated cost is $50 BILLION
That photo looks like a moonshine still, not that I know what those look like.
;->
april fools….
Happy April Fools day.