Portents in Paris

Josh writes…Le_green_blob_scrA dark cartoon for the the start of the year following the shocking events in Paris and stories about the blocking of ideas and closed minds.

I wonder what will happen when the Green Blob meets in Paris later in the year?

Cartoons by Josh

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January 10, 2015 10:03 am

Have no doubt they will brings bags of free speech and 0 degrees of freedom . . .

Reply to  Bubba Cow
January 10, 2015 11:33 am

Bubba-the UN entities have entered into an agreement with the Club of Rome to create the desired ;values’ for the post-2015 global agenda. Then the K-12 education system globally imposes them invisibly in the name of Equity, 21st Century Learning, workforce skills, and Competency.
Plus the UNITAE subsidiary in 2003 began setting up a global CIFAL network http://www.invisibleserfscollar.com/stipulating-without-our-consent-that-post-literate-right-brained-man-is-necessary-for-workforce-development/ to train legislators, mayors, school supers, etc to be local change agents using their coercive powers to actually push the UN agenda.
Interestingly the North American CIFAL is in Atlanta with another in Mexico. There are 12 in all and we are all at risk until these networks of treachery and Marxist Statism are better known. The accompanying reports actually cite to what Marx called his Human Development Model. Yikes!!

Reply to  Robin
January 10, 2015 11:56 am

Of course you know you are preaching to the choir, but I appreciate the support.
I live in Vermont, home of you know who, and with a governor who has to be in the pay of big wind. We have nothing else here to take except taxing our air with carbon measures. Our federal reps are senile and entrenched and cherish the PTC subsidies or are so stupid that they are Marx’s “useful Idiots”.
Rud Istvan has kindly agreed to help me with plaintive writings. Waiting for good contact info.
In my region, my letters are appreciated by the public and local legislators and snubbed in the zealot capitol. I mourn what must have happened and continues to happen in “higher education”, much less common core. I attended a “Courageous Conversation about Climate” hosted by a meteorologist and I confronted 1 speaker saying this isn’t about when you saw a bluebird in the backyard; this is about that IPCC horse pucky. He said I’m a reader for the IPCC. I’m the interim dean of environmental science at University of Vermont. I asked what his academic training was. “I’m an economist”.
I said “I have a PhD in actual research science. You’re not competent to assess any area of science”. Left courageous conversation, host called me that evening and apologized and said they told me before the show that they weren’t going there. Courageous. I said politics has hijacked science. He said yup.
Don’t know how to get it back but Rud and I will write stuff.
I liken the comping energy poverty here to indiscriminate violence of all the people.
Cheery

Reply to  Robin
January 10, 2015 12:31 pm

Bubba-you have Gus Speth in Vermont who wrote President Carter’s plan. He is a law prof at Vermont U now but he was the principal author of The Global 2000 Report to the President: Entering the Twenty-First Century. It is easy to locate on the Internet once its existence is known.
It really does make the role of the Environment as an excuse for a government planned economy and society front and center. Well worth the time.

Reply to  Robin
January 10, 2015 8:52 pm

Thank you , Robin.
Expect that is Vermont Law School but should be easy to find.
We need all the help we can get.

kim
Reply to  Robin
January 12, 2015 9:25 pm

Bubba Cow, you rock. The worm the Early Bird has found is under an awful big damn rock.
=============

Garfy
Reply to  Bubba Cow
January 11, 2015 1:48 am

right !!!

Bloke down the pub
January 10, 2015 10:03 am

Spiked have an article that is unfortunately too close to the truth for comfort. http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/what-if-icharlie-hebdo-i-had-been-published-in-britain/16443#.VLFo9SusWQC

Alan Robertson
Reply to  Bloke down the pub
January 10, 2015 10:42 am

Many thanks for that link!

ShrNfr
Reply to  Bloke down the pub
January 10, 2015 10:46 am

It is close to the truth in the US too. Sad that.

Auto
Reply to  Bloke down the pub
January 10, 2015 1:32 pm

Yeah.
Some of it.
Maybe not all of it: I hope.
But – I’m an old fart, and the world has changed (not necessarily to our advantage).
I now have run out of comment.
Auto.

Jimbo
Reply to  Auto
January 11, 2015 3:23 am

The other truth is that some warmists have called for the death penalty and imprisonment for CAGW sceptics. In other words a climate FATWA. Are those warmists any more tolerant of free speech than ISIS supporters?
Freedom isn’t free.

TonyG
Reply to  Auto
January 11, 2015 1:43 pm

Jimbo – have you seen this article? http://thoughtcatalog.com/tanya-cohen/2015/01/here-is-why-its-time-to-get-tough-on-hate-speech-in-america/
Frightening that people actually think this is ok.

asybot
Reply to  Bloke down the pub
January 11, 2015 8:31 pm

Thanks for the link, I have saying this in a very none articulate way for 40 years ( lots of bleeps etc), It is why I left the EU.

bernie1815
January 10, 2015 10:05 am

We need someone from the top of the scientific establishment to say something similar to the words of Egypt’s President SIsi and address them to climate scientists around the world:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/notable-quotable-al-sisi-1420760154?KEYWORDS=President+SIsi+Speech
“Honorable Imam [the Grand Sheik of Al-Azhar], you bear responsibility before Allah. The world in its entirety awaits your words, because the Islamic nation is being torn apart, destroyed, and is heading to perdition. We ourselves are bringing it to perdition.”

Reply to  bernie1815
January 10, 2015 12:18 pm

What is happening in Nigeria scares the crap out of me. I have lived there in that Adamawa State developing the American University of Nigeria which is based upon western education standards. We have built excellent science labs. They haven’t gone dark with social studies and climate crud. Still, I fear that it will be soon a target for Boku Haram. That Hausa is badly translated by MSM. It means “Western is Wrong” – opposite of kosher (H’allal). Security is not good.
I have many many good friends who are Muslim and call me for Christmas. I’ve lived in other Muslim countries – Morocco and Saudi. Islam is peaceful. Jihad is not well understood here – watch Traitor – perhaps Don Cheadle’s best work though he has many. I could go on here.
Agree that climate science needs the proverbial slap upside the head. I don’t even call it science anymore. I could go on here too.

MCourtney
January 10, 2015 10:25 am

I know about the suppression of debate – even at the state funded BBC but…
This still sits uneasily with me.
Silencing opposition is wrong but the use of deadly violence seems more wrong, doesn’t it?
This feels like a disproportionate complaint.

milodonharlani
Reply to  MCourtney
January 10, 2015 10:44 am

CACA faithful call for the slaying of infidel skeptics.
http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2012/12/25/progressives-call-for-murder-of-climate-skeptics-and-gun-owners/
Wasn’t the commercial with skeptical school kids’ heads being detonated in bloody explosions from Britain?
The wish is father to the deed. Have skeptics not indeed received death threats?

M Courtney
Reply to  milodonharlani
January 12, 2015 2:31 am

But they didn’t really blow up school kids. It was a satire.
It wasn’t funny and It was offensive.
It wasn’t even very good.
But it is of a different order to actually using violence.

milodonharlani
Reply to  milodonharlani
January 13, 2015 10:32 am

West Houston Geo, thanks!
M. Courtney, Give them time & even more power, & they will, IMO. Reminds me of when putative pacifists in Portland, Oregon graffitied walls calling for the beheading of Ollie North. The totalitarian mindset broaches no opposition.

January 10, 2015 10:38 am

Some random thoughts on this. First: Well said Josh. Dr. Mann is suing Mark Steyn and Tim Ball because of something they said. He isn’t killing anyone, but he sure is trying to bankrupt them. We do not need to defend speech that does not offend. That speech does not need defending. We need to defend speech that offends. Anthony understands this well I believe. He links to those who disagree with him and he doesn’t sue those who defame him. When I see a permanent link to WUWT at realclimate, I’ll believe they are taking baby steps to believing in defending free speech. Until then, they must accept some responsibility for the events that occurred. As do all who defend “free speech, but . . .”.

Gunga Din
Reply to  John Eggert
January 10, 2015 1:55 pm

We do not need to defend speech that does not offend. That speech does not need defending. We need to defend speech that offends.

Well said.
Some years ago I had to sit through an indoctrination about “Sexual Harassment in the Workplace”.
The gist of it was that if someone claimed they were offended by what I said or did, I was guilty. No innocent until proven guilty. Guilty.
If a radical feminist took offense at my opening the door for her, I could be in trouble. With no defense.
To offend was indefensible.
The kicker was that the presenter was a minister who claimed affiliation Rev. Martin Luther King.
I bit my tongue and didn’t mention that there was a someone who offended lots of people but was more innocent than any someone has ever been.

Reply to  Gunga Din
January 10, 2015 6:35 pm

GD, you have just nutshelled the whole PC dilemma. Given diversity (of opinion and otherwise), to give no offense to anyone is to remain silent. Not gonna happen on my watch.
But it is important to be as factualy precise (and unassailably referenced) as possible. That is where skeptics have faltered a bit. See my newest book for hopeful counterexamples.

Reply to  Gunga Din
January 10, 2015 7:28 pm

Agree with Rud. Take the high ground and hold it.

TRM
Reply to  John Eggert
January 11, 2015 10:18 am

Defending speech that offends is fine in theory but you have to remember that at least half the people on the planet are in the 15th century still from an economic, educational & social standpoint. Instant tolerance doesn’t happen. Then you through in the House of Saud funding Wahhabi schools for decades in those parts of the world. Rather than blaming Islam as a whole (like some media do) I think the fault lies clearly at the door of the Saudi royal family.
While I do not advocate violence when you publish something that you know will royally offend 1.5 billion people you have to be aware of the fact that if even 0.00001% of them are violently inclined that you could become a target.
Even if you are a devout Muslim you will still be targeted if you don’t tow the line they want you to. Look at Ramzan Kadyrov. HIs father was the Mufti (Islamic religious leader) in Chechnya and was murdered by the extremists because he wouldn’t go along. Now ISIS has a multi million dollar price on Ramzan’s head because he has been extremely successful against the extremists.
Any fanatical extremism is very dangerous to everyone because you are never “good enough” by their definition. If you don’t accept that they kill you.

Editor
January 10, 2015 10:52 am

We do not have free speech anymore, this concept has been obliterated by the left wing, politically correct “elite”. In Newcastle Civic Centre to ask for black or white coffee is considered racist (coffee with or without is the phrase that should be used). Birmingham City Council declared a few years ago that Christmas was to be called “Winter Festival” so as not to upset non-Christians.
It is this kind of behaviour that has fomented terrorism, both by it’s implication that somehow other religions are superior to ours and patronising those same religions.
It is ironic that the terrorists don’t need to do anything, in a few years the lefties will have done it all for them!

MichaelS
Reply to  andrewmharding
January 10, 2015 12:26 pm

I understand the sentiment but honestly, the sooner we stop aligning ourselves according to right/left, the sooner we’ll all come to the realization that the political system is a sham and politicians have only two goals. 1. Getting into office 2. Staying in office. We are simply the vehicle they use to obtain and maintain power.
Oddly enough, you might actually have more in common with your lib-left neighbor than your conservative congressional/senate representatives. Except in rare circumstances, even the most honest, hard working individual has to compromise on principles in order to reach higher office. It’s then a slippery slope to the bottom.
The left/right system is endemically corrupt and politicians thrive when the electorate is divided amongst itself.

Brian
Reply to  MichaelS
January 10, 2015 2:39 pm

I Agree. The real problem is the left/right, Muslim/Christian/Jew/et al, 1%/99%, and any other them/us mentality. Undistinguished leaders use it for short-term political gain without regard to the long-term societal harm it causes and until we (the unwashed masses) stop following people that push these views, it will not change.
We get what we deserve and if your particular leader is telling you that it’s all the fault of some other group, you are following the wrong person.

Eugene WR Gallun
Reply to  MichaelS
January 10, 2015 4:36 pm

MichaelS
Are you saying what we need is “consensus”?
Eugene WR Gallun

MichaelS
Reply to  MichaelS
January 10, 2015 8:09 pm

Brian said:
“We get what we deserve and if your particular leader is telling you that it’s all the fault of some other group, you are following the wrong person.”
That is exactly the point I was making. Thank you.
Eugene WR Gallun said:
“Are you saying what we need is “consensus”?
Yes Eugene, what we need is a “consensus”.
We need to all agree that the past 75+ years of left/right politics has helped create an adversarial mentality that fertilizes the kind of Us vs Them political idealism that keeps everyone mired in a state of perpetual bullshit.
The election cycle in 2000 was $3B.
The election cycle in 2004 was $4B
The election cycle in 2008 was $6B.
The election cycle in 2012 was $7B.
The election cycle in 2016 was $?B.
Does there really need to be this much money flowing in order to put a government in place? Will the stakes keep going up and if so, where does it end?

Steve C
Reply to  MichaelS
January 11, 2015 12:11 am

Very well said, MichaelS. The eternal shouting match between “left” and “right” is pure divide-and-conquer flimflam, and has little to offer at the best of times. Followers of UK politics may remember a few years ago, when the Conservative M.P. David Davis resigned and forced a by-election over the issue of the spread of state surveillance. Supporting his move, the late Tony Benn – probably about as far from Conservative politics as you could get – was asked by a BBC interviewer whether it wasn’t a bit unusual seeing Right and Left wing politicians getting together like this.
Benn smiled agreeably and told him that, while there were of course differences between them, on matters as important as liberty left and right “sort of meet round the back”. He was absolutely right. The important axis at present is not “left-right”, however you want to define them. The dichotomy now is between libertarian and authoritarian, and we must all choose between a world in which “we the people” control our governments pro bono publico and one in which arrogant, self-selected U.N. “technocrats” in a globalist “government” control – and beggar – the rest of us for their own benefit.
Given that education has been monstrously corrupted since WWII, as is so spine-chillingly documented for the U.S. on Robin’s outstanding “Invisible Serf’s Collar”, it’s not going to be an easy fight. Everyone under about 40 has already received years of “communitarian training” at school and had their critical faculties anaesthetised, for a start. Nonetheless, it is an inevitable and essential fight, if you don’t want your grandchildren to end up – at best – as minor functionaries in the “Fourth Reich”. Maybe, when we’ve got rid of the crust of globalist parasites destroying our planet and plotting our downfall, we will get back to the “left-right” stuff, but I’d rather hope that we might by then have learned to work togeether.
Believe nothing because a wise man said it.
Believe nothing because the belief is generally held.
Believe nothing because it is written in ancient books.
Believe nothing because it is of divine origin.
Believe nothing because someone else believes it.
Believe only that which you yourself judge to be true.
– Buddha
To which I would only add:
… but make sure your judgement is sound.
If you still think “right-left”, it needs working on.

Eugene WR Gallun
Reply to  MichaelS
January 11, 2015 9:39 am

MichaelS
I would describe myself as a pro-choice, atheist, extremely conservative Republican. I think that unless i run for office myself I am never going to find a candidate I am completely happy with — but isn’t that the situation of every voter?
In the real world I favor religious candidates over atheist candidates because I believe anyone out there proclaiming their atheism during a campaign is most likely a nut case.
My pro-choice beliefs find the current turmoil on this topic quite proper. Currently pro-choice women are not prevented from having abortions and pro-life women are not required to have abortions. Sounds fair to me.
I favor small government because government screws everything up so lets keep the screw-ups government is capable of as small as possible.
All the above aside, most of which was said half-jokingly, I am far more scared of consensus than I am of endless contention. Consensus demands that debate end — and there should never be an end to debate. (And I must add that so-called “obstructionism” in government is instrumental in preventing “consensus” — that is why those favoring consensus are so negative about it. It prevents them from getting their way.)
if politics is the art of cat herding — then consensus politics is the art of shooting all the cats.
Eugene WR Gallun

Michael 2
Reply to  MichaelS
January 11, 2015 10:51 am

MichaelS says “the sooner we stop aligning ourselves according to right/left, the sooner we’ll all come to the realization that the political system is a sham and politicians have only two goals.”
Too late. You have already aligned yourself “left” by using the word “we”. It is your paradigm, the way your brain is wired, to assume the existence of “we”.
Plus it is more accurate to describe “left/right” not as a thing “we” align to, but as descriptive words that describe character traits you were very likely born possessing. You do not choose to be right or left, it is what you are and relates (IMO) to left brain / right brain (left politics, right half of brain; right politics, left half of brain).
As one matures, there’s a tendency to be able to use both sides of one’s brain in which case I, and others, see the good of both left and right, and the bad of both left and right, realizing that situational ethics pertain and sometimes one system is to be preferred depending on the circumstances.

Uncle Gus
Reply to  andrewmharding
January 11, 2015 9:41 am

They have peaked.
In comments on sci-fi geek blogs, I have been referring to the “chalkboard” in the latest series of Doctor Who. (Just to avoid tedious arguments, you understand.)
Recently, Doctor Who Confidential called it a “blackboard”. No public outcry. No moral panic. Nobody noticed.
Conclusion: They’ve started to lose track of their own bollocks. They can no longer remember what’s “unacceptable” and what isn’t.
They are going away. Soon they will be gone.

Ivor Ward
January 10, 2015 10:53 am

“”We need to defend speech that offends.”” Speech does not offend. Every individual is given a choice as to whether they choose to “take offence” at anything that is said. There is no grammatical rule; there is no dictionary of offence. We live in an “offence” culture where people try and rule the conversation by faux offence and umbrage. Freedom of speech is inviolable. There can be no rules, because to set rules demands that someone becomes the arbiter of other peoples words. Choose not to be offended and choose freedom of speech. I live in France. I am Charlie.

Reply to  Ivor Ward
January 10, 2015 11:06 am

Yes,

Harry Passfield
Reply to  John Eggert
January 10, 2015 12:23 pm

No.
Ivor, I’m with you – inasmuch as I understand your words: that people have no right ‘not to be offended’. That is the key.
But I do retain the right to react to being offended – ‘to take offence’. Thing is, if you call me an a*sehole, I reserve the right to bop you on the nose. But I don’t think you deserve to die for it – and I deserve to be arrested for it.
My point is, life is full of offensive experiences – it’s how we grow – but we develop and grow as a result based on how we react to those offences.
We do need to protect free speech – even that which offends – but only inasmuch as those doing the offending are made to understand that they are (by someone’s lights) offensive. Otherwise the drunk calling your wife an offensive name will be protected. Oh, and I know this to be the way things are going because, when someone gratuitously offended my wife, and I later told (her) in fairly assertive terms (no swearing) that she should not do that, she called the police and I was the one prosecuted for common assault. (In the UK, common assault does not have to be physical, it only has to be ‘apprehended’ – and that’s another problem).
Et – je suis Charlie, aussie.

RACookPE1978
Editor
Reply to  Harry Passfield
January 10, 2015 12:56 pm

From the Religion of Peace website: Islamic Terrorists have committed over 24,815 separate distinct terrorist attacks .
This list of terrorist attacks committed by Muslims since 9/11/01 (a rate of about five a day) is incomplete because not all such attacks are picked up by international news sources, even those resulting in multiple loss of life.
These are not incidents of ordinary crime involving nominal Muslims killing for money or vendetta. We only include incidents of deadly violence that are reasonably determined to have been committed out of religious duty – as interpreted by the perpetrator. Islam needs to be a motive, but it need not be the only factor.
We usually list only attacks resulting in loss of life (with a handful of exceptions).

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/thelist.htm
These 24,000 terrorist attacks and religious murders (some few are so-called honor-killings of a wife or daughter by the husband-father-brother) killed over 90,000 people since September 11, 2001.
It IS the religion – a 7th century model based on 7th century rituals and social values: That is, based on nothing but what the rest of the world grew away from since 680 AD.

Janice Moore
Reply to  John Eggert
January 10, 2015 12:38 pm

Way to go, Harry. What a guy. Your wife is blessed to have such a gallant husband. The sickening bias shown by the prosecutor shows why the AGWers often put a woman out there as their spokesperson: the myth that all women are “nice.” (head shake) Where have they been living for their entire lives??! Or did I luck out and meet all 500 members of Nasty Women with Sweet Smiles, Inc.?

Reply to  John Eggert
January 10, 2015 12:44 pm

But Harry, verbal retort can have so much more impact than a bop on the nose – which is violence in response to someone who makes a verabl insult. You would be the one arrested. I remember someone calling my old uncle a big head one day (he died in April, and I miss him). He immediately came back with, ‘Yes, but my head would still rattle in your mouth’. It was a superb response, and a belittling put-down, no violence needed. In powderkeg arguments I have found that being calm and using words carefully have a massive and devastating impact. I have had people frothing at the mouth in confrontation with me, as they aren’t thinking as clearly as me. I’ve never hit anyone in my life – never had to.

Robert B
Reply to  John Eggert
January 10, 2015 1:32 pm

Big Jim, not everyone is good with the quick retort that puts someone in their place and the line between acceptable and unacceptable is very blurred. Laws and public morals are being changed so that those that are better with their mouth can bully others. A protestor can do to others what would be considered assault, as Harry pointed out, and any reaction is portrayed as stopping free speech.
While I’m not happy to say it, I get the feeling that a world completely free of violence will be full of peace lovers who are nasty little so-and-sos. Humans are too anti-intellectual to have seen the last of a bit of biffo (or terrorist attacks).
Hell is not being able to reason.

Leonard Lane
Reply to  Ivor Ward
January 10, 2015 12:26 pm

Well said, thank you.

Robert of Ottawa
Reply to  Ivor Ward
January 10, 2015 3:15 pm

Nowhere is it in Western civilization stated that there is a right to not be offended. Speech is controlled by slander and libel laws, not “I am offended” laws because these would be subjective. Heck, I could even be offended by anything that I don’t like, or represents my ideological opponents.

Brian
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
January 10, 2015 4:31 pm

How offended, or not? Please quantify the degree to which you are not offended and use the standard unit of measure for offence (do I need a sarc tag?)

Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
January 10, 2015 6:11 pm

Claims of “sexual harassment” ….. has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with “what was said”, …… but everything to do with “who said it”.

CodeTech
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
January 10, 2015 8:52 pm

Which is where the “hate speech” crap came from.
I don’t “hate” very many people, and I certainly don’t run around trying to get others to hate people. But when someone moves here and not only refuses to be part of this culture, but actively plots our demise, how foolish is it to ignore them?

RogueElement451
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
January 12, 2015 2:11 am

“Yes granted that you can have the right not to be offended brother even if you are deeply offended !”
“But he is always easily offended!”
“alright comrades , insofar as Achmud is always easily offended we can nevertheless agree that whilst easily and constantly offended , he has the right , if he so wishes ,to not be offended,this would not prohibit him from being madly aroused by offense,or not,as the case may be but would allow us to go forward in joint purpose as stakeholders ,in the rights of anyone ,male or female, of any race or creed ,to be entitled not to be wound up ,as a right by what may or may not be offense.”
“Splitters!!”
The life of Brian has a lot to answer for. /sarc

Reply to  Ivor Ward
January 10, 2015 7:24 pm

I sometimes find the C Bit C in Canada offensive. I turn the dial. Some people claim many TV programs are offensive – I can only assume they are unable to change the channel, hit the mute button or turn away. I find the language of many youngsters “offensive” but their peers do not – so I accept that things have changed.
300 years ago Voltaire said something like: “I detest what you say, but I defend your right to say it to the death.” That should still be valid.
I disagree with many viewpoints here and the tonality with which they are stated, but to paraphrase another old saying: “Keep your friends close, your enemies closer.” It is good to keep an open mind and listen.
I have learned much here.
Thank you. And thoughts to the bereaved families in France.

The Expulsive
January 10, 2015 10:55 am

I have been listening and watching in the Great White North, where we have the CBC (taxpayer subsidized to the tune of $1.1B/yr) trying not to offend anyone and others saying that it is wrong for the PM to call these acts barbaric. The pen is only mightier than the sword when you have a liberal democracy with the rule of law to defend free speech.
I have also been saddened by my many erstwhile lefty friends who used to say “I might not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it” now having caveats about free speech if it is not part of the “consensus” they support.

Brandon Gates
Reply to  The Expulsive
January 10, 2015 5:41 pm

As a lefty myself, your erstwhile lefty friends should be compelled to shut up …

David Ball
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 10, 2015 7:49 pm

Yet you can post here, but I am constantly and consistently deleted by your lefty friends at their lefty sites. Hmmmm.

Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 10, 2015 8:08 pm

David Ball,
Funny about that, isn’t it?
Neither the politically Left blogs, nor the alarmist blogs [pretty much the same thing], allow free exchange of ideas. Especially the alarmist climate blogs, which censor like crazy. I have long since given up trying to post comments on most of them — and knowing how sensitive they are, I am always extremely polite and careful.
Doesn’t matter. If I post a graph that contradicts their narrative, it almost never sees the light of day.
That alone ought to tell the alarmist clique commenting here who is right, and who is wrong.

Alan Robertson
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 10, 2015 8:13 pm

What’s that, Brandon? Santa didn’t bring you a new box o’ sarc tags?

Brandon Gates
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 10, 2015 8:20 pm

Alan, I needed my daily dose of irony. Self-administered is the best sort.

Brandon Gates
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 10, 2015 8:24 pm

David Ball, Maybe you’re consistently more offensive than I am. It’s not like I haven’t been warned here. That said I do appreciate having been allowed to air my views here despite all the rumors I read elsewhere about censorship at WUWT.

Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 10, 2015 9:40 pm

B. Gates says:
…I do appreciate having been allowed to air my views here despite all the rumors I read elsewhere about censorship at WUWT.
Yes, I’ve read the same false accusations about ‘censorship’ here. It seems that when they can’t win debates with facts, then fabricating ‘facts’ is an acceptable tactic. It isn’t.
As always, the Romans understood human nature:
Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus.
You fib about one thing, that makes you a fibber. You will fib about anything.
Also: I’ve read David Ball’s comments here for years. He is no more offensive than Gates — who I must admit, is pretty inoffensive.
So that excuse is out. Alarmist blogs simply do not want their readers to see any other point of view except their own.

Brandon Gates
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 11, 2015 12:49 am

dbstealey,

Yes, I’ve read the same false accusations about ‘censorship’ here. It seems that when they can’t win debates with facts, then fabricating ‘facts’ is an acceptable tactic. It isn’t.

Oh dear, once again The Pause has reached The Hot Place and then some, for it has frozen over — we agree on something. There are other ways to quash debate when inconvenient arguments come to light, and — how can I put this delicately — you are among the true masters of the non sequitur.
You’re not alone. My side does it too … I do it too when frustration leads to anger and those things get the best of me. Difficult to be a caring human being and not have those kind of emotional responses.
My position on this matter is that blog owners have the privilege of deciding who comments and who does not. WUWT has its own ground rules. I myself have tested the boundaries and had my knuckles rapped. Which is fine. I’m a guest here at Anthony’s pleasure. His blog, his rules, my choice to follow them or not.
MAYBE David Ball could have been a better guest, maybe the hosts were thin-skinned and overly intolerant of reasonable opposing views …. I don’t know. I’ll not ever be able to know. These are subjective judgement calls, none of us are ever going to be able to agree on what’s fair and isn’t.
In the end I don’t much care. When we warmunists finally get the conspiracy going full swing and pass the laws to shut WUWT down forever, well then you’ll have a decent complaint in my view.
Rare that I use this device, but just to be sure … /sarc.
Cheers.

Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 11, 2015 1:00 am

Gates says:
The Pause has reached The Hot Place…
And you call me a master of the non sequitur??
Projection.
But you have made an important admission: WUWT does not censor opposing views. THAT is what’s important. If alarmist blogs operated the same way as WUWT, I honestly believe thwey would either be forced out of business, or be cut down to even smaller traffic numbers. As it is, they are nothing more than like-minded echo chambers populated with head-nodders.
If you had kept on topic you would also have to agree that alarmist blogs censor opposing views. As I said above, that should tell you all you need to know.

Brandon Gates
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 11, 2015 1:18 am

dbstealey,

And you call me a master of the non sequitur?? Projection.

Self-deprication. Which requires self-awareness. Something you either wholly lack, are awfully good at pretending you don’t have … or somewhere in between.

But you have made an important admission: WUWT does not censor opposing views.

What I know is that I have not been moderated out … and in this context I prefer the term moderated to censor. A blog owner is not the gummint, and proper terminology is something I’m a stickler for.

If you had kept on topic you would also have to agree that alarmist blogs censor opposing views. As I said above, that should tell you all you need to know.

No, I don’t have to agree. It’s yours and David’s word that I’ve got to go on here, and that’s it. So I don’t base WUWT’s moderation policy on the basis of my experience alone because that would be extending personal anecdotal evidence to the general case, and that’s fallacious. I don’t trust much of what combatants on either side of this debate say about the other side because I know this is a political mud fest.
My anchor for understanding this row is the science itself. It’s the most objective lens through which to view the debate that I trust.

Jimbo
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 11, 2015 6:41 am

dbstealey January 10, 2015 at 8:08 pm
….. If I post a graph that contradicts their narrative, it almost never sees the light of day.
That alone ought to tell the alarmist clique commenting here who is right, and who is wrong.

+100! And there you have it ladies and gentlemen. I too have posted up on the Guardian comments section peer reviewed abstracts that contradict their position and was promptly deleted or banned. Yet most of the articles were simply from journalists while mine was from the peer review! They insist time and again to “listen to the science”, but I think they meant listen to the journalism. LOL.

Jimbo
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 11, 2015 6:43 am

May I add that Dr. Richard Tol of the IPCC also had a comment removed. Sometimes facts hurt.

Jimbo
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 11, 2015 6:52 am

Here is the removed comment in the Guardian by Dr. Richard Tol of the IPCC, dated 21 October 2014. The really funny thing is that Tol had written an article in the Guardian a few months earlier (6 June 2014) challenging the climate consensus.comment image

Babsy
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 11, 2015 7:56 am

Yes, yes! Lefty! Goober!

Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 11, 2015 9:44 am

Thanks, Jimbo. I can truly believe your comments and links have been “censored” [yes, I agree with Gates that it isn’t censorship, since only the gov’t can censor. But the effect is exactly the same: readers don’t see the other side of the debate].
You post facts, like a lot of skeptics. But they don’t like facts. They cannot argue facts. Facts show they are wrong. So the easy solution for them is to simply delete inconventient facts, and… on with the propaganda!
That worked in the 1930’s, when governments controlled the narrative. But with free speech and the internet, the alarmist contingent is losing credibility day by day — because they have no solid, supporting facts.
B. Gates says:
how can I put this delicately — you are among the true masters of the non sequitur.
Gates, after repeatedly pointing out that you, and even more, Socks, is guilty of non sequitur confusion, now you have started using it to argue. But just look at the comments Socks makes, and try to put your own house in order.
Next, you say:
Self-deprication. Which requires self-awareness. Something you either wholly lack, are awfully good at pretending you don’t have … or somewhere in between.
Gates, often times you make no sense, you just ramble on. That is one of those times.
If you stuck with the facts like Jimbo does, this would be wrapped up in short order, so I can understand why you prefer to ramble.

Brandon Gates
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 11, 2015 4:02 pm

dbstealey,

But just look at the comments Socks makes, and try to put your own house in order.

How about a specific example?

Gates, often times you make no sense, you just ramble on.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, donchaknow.

If you stuck with the facts like Jimbo does, this would be wrapped up in short order, so I can understand why you prefer to ramble.

Meh, I’ve about had my fill of thinly-evidenced anecdotes about who’s been moderated/banned at what blog. Facts … facts … oh hey. Not to change the subject or anything have you yet answered my questions about this graph you posted a few threads back?
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/clip_image0062.jpg?w=700
1) How did the creator of this chart came up with the values for the y-axis TEMPERATURE values?
2) Why do you think the TEMPERATURE values are accurate if Global Warming is too insignificant to measure?
I’m also wondering if you’ve figured out which of your idle speculations about my personal status is most likely correct:

You are either:
• Unemployed, or
• Cheating your employer, or
• Being a paid troll

One might wonder why I’ve mashed these seemingly unrelated questions together: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/01/06/on-the-futility-of-climate-models-simplistic-nonsense/#comment-1832583
“Put my own house in order … ” lol, you’re killin’ me Stealey. Mind yourself first. Then, maybe, possibly, I’ll seriously entertain anything critical you’ve got to say about something (whatever it is) Socks has written.

David Socrates
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 11, 2015 4:07 pm

I can’t wait to see the reply you get Brandon

Brandon Gates
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 11, 2015 5:13 pm

Socrates,
Here’s hoping it’s something a little more original than the last elebentyzillion times I’ve asked him about that plot. And hey, since you’re here, whatever you’ve said to get his knickers in a twist, knock it off, ok? Whatever it is you’ve flubbed, I really shouldn’t make my policing of your independent activities on this blog conditional on him shaping himself up. Cheers!

Brandon Gates
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 11, 2015 6:45 pm

garymount,
I take it that you stand behind the accuracy of the graphic you’ve posted. That being the case, I have some questions for you:
1) The title mentions the “logarithmic diminution of the influence of CO2 on temperature”. What formula(e) were used to create this plot? Please be sure to include any constants.
2) The title also mentions “remaining maximum temperature change” due to the influence of CO2. What is that maximum temperature, and what assumptions were used to calculate this as yet, unknown future value? Again please be sure to include any formula(e) and constants.
3) What observational data sets and analysis methods were used to validate the temperature changes implied, but unstated, in this graphic?
4) Given your evident trust in this graphic, what do you think of dbstealey’s previous assertions that the temperature effects of CO2 are too small to measure?

Brandon Gates
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 11, 2015 7:23 pm

garymount,
Ok, that page lists three simplified expressions for CO2 forcing listed, let’s go with the simplest:
ΔF = α * ln(C/C₀), α = 5.35 W/m^2
They don’t give us a value for C₀ here, but 280 ppmv is standard so I’ll spot you that constant.
Now, ΔF is change in radiative forcing, not change temperature. The plot you posted is talking about temperature. How did whoever make that chart calculate equilibrium temperature? How did they validate their results?

Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 11, 2015 7:42 pm

gary mount,
Don’t fall for Gates’ incessant “But why” type of response. He has no interest in scientific veracity, only in endless, nitpicking obfluscation. This is a somewhat complicated discussion, so anyone with that intent can clutter up the threads to where it’s all about them, instead of the topical questions.
The bottom line: global warmig has stopped, which killed the alarmists’ arguments. Now they’re just getting nasty, because they can’t man-up and admit they were wrong all along.
And they were wrong. Not one of their scary predictions ever happened. Despite rising CO2, global temperatures have not followed. Polar bear populations are rising. The sea level rise is not accelerating as predicted, it is actually decelerating. Ocean “acidification” cannot even be quantified. Methane in no longer in the news, because that scare was debunked, too. The biggest scare of all runaway global warming, certainly appears to be complete nonsense. In any case, that is just another failed prediction.
And so far, no one has ever posted a verifiable, testable measurement of AGW. A measurement that quantifies the human factor in overall global warming. Is it one-third? Is it 9%? Is it 0.09%? We don’t know. Because there is no measurement of AGW!
Without any measurements, how can we be certain that AGW exists? The answer: we can’t. But the alarmist crowd is still trying to scare people with something that they cannot prove even exists! Is this the biggest HOAX ever? Or is AGW something so minuscule that it cannot even be measured? Which?
None of the alarmists’ predictions have happened. Why should anyone listen to them now? They are only trying to cover up their total failure.

Brandon Gates
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 11, 2015 8:08 pm

dbstealey,

And so far, no one has ever posted a verifiable, testable measurement of AGW.

Tut. We’ve got this plot from you:
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/clip_image0062.jpg?w=700
And this graphic that garymount has submitted into evidence:comment image
If they’re not verifiable and testable, what in heck are proper skeptics like you two doing posting them to begin with?

Without any measurements, how can we be certain that AGW even exists? The answer: we can’t.

Yet …

The bottom line: global warmig has stopped, which killed the alarmists’ arguments.

In sum, we can’t be certain AGW even exists, but we are absolutely certain it has stopped.
If you’re the cavalry, one wonders how inept the infantry is.

Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 11, 2015 8:56 pm

Gates,
Better to not comment, than to prove your foolishness.
Those are not measurements, any more than a multiplication table is a measurement.
They are graphs of a model; a model of radiative physics.
You are a noobie at this. Why not do as recommended, and read the WUWT archives for a while. Really, you will learn the difference between a model and, like, measurements.
It would do you good.

Brandon Gates
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 11, 2015 9:39 pm

dbstealey,

Better to not comment, than to prove your foolishness.

That may explain why it takes so long for me to drag answers to simple questions out of you. To wit, at long last, you write:

They are graphs of a model; a model of radiative physics.

[smacks forehead] You don’t say. Let’s have a look at this graphic again:
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/clip_image0062.jpg?w=700
Near as I can tell with my eyeballs, the model for this plot is:
ΔT = ln(C₁) * 0.5 - ln(C₀) * 0.5
Where C₀ and C₁ are CO2 concentrations in ppmv, and as plotted, C₁ = C₀ + 20. How we get T in units of °C from that formula I’ll never know … someone’s radiative physics text may be a little bonkers. But I digress.

Really, you will learn the difference between a model and, like, measurements.

Tsk. No WUWT veteran worth his or her salt would trust a model without proper validation, would they? So yet again DB, how was your little chart above validated if the effects of CO2 can’t be measured?

Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 12, 2015 11:37 am

I am amused by Gates’ tap-dancing above.
Still no measurement, eh Gates?
Of course not. If there were, it would have been trumpeted from every media outlet 24/7/365. And we would know the exact fraction of AGW, out of total global warming. The debate would be over.
But carry on… the tap-dancing is amusing. Especially the arithmetic… ☺ 

Brandon Gates
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 12, 2015 1:34 pm

dbstealey,

I am amused by Gates’ tap-dancing above.

This here is a tango, m’dear.

Still no measurement, eh Gates?

You said it yourself above: This is a somewhat complicated discussion …

But carry on… the tap-dancing is amusing.

And now the full Stealy quote from above: He has no interest in scientific veracity, only in endless, nitpicking obfluscation. This is a somewhat complicated discussion, so anyone with that intent can clutter up the threads to where it’s all about them, instead of the topical questions.

Especially the arithmetic… ☺

It did occur to me after I posted that factoring out the constant to yield:
ΔT = (ln(C₁) - ln(C₀)) * 0.5
would be slightly better algebra. Still, taking the log of a dimensioned value is strange. So, for the nth time DB, what’s the true formula for this plot, where did it come from, and above all:
How was it validated if the effects of CO2 are “too small to measure”?
You don’t seriously believe in the results of radiative physics models which have not been verified by observation … do you?
Of course not. And your silence on the question speaks very loudly indeed.

Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 12, 2015 1:45 pm

Gates,
Arguing with you is like dancing with the tar baby. The only thing I get from it is your confused nonsense:
So, for the nth time DB, what’s the true formula for this plot, where did it come from, and above all: How was it validated if the effects of CO2 are “too small to measure”?
I have repeatedly answered that same question. Go back and find the answer. Why should I have to explain the basics to you yet again — for the nth time?
And adding more to your arithmetic does not get you out of your hole. It is just obfuscation, which adds nothing whatever to the discussion. It is the typical Gates tactic of posting unnecessary, extraneous pixels.
Wake me if/when you begin to understand the difference between models and the real world. Because it’s clear that you still don’t see the difference.

Brandon Gates
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 12, 2015 2:58 pm

dbstealey,

I have repeatedly answered that same question. Go back and find the answer. Why should I have to explain the basics to you yet again — for the nth time?

So, the possibilities are:
1) You answered it and I missed the post.
2) You answered it and I truly did not understand it was you answer.
3) You didn’t answer it and wish to make it appear I’m debating in bad faith.
4) You did answer it, I read it and understood it, and really am debating in bad faith.
So, here’s the ONE question I’m looking you to answer: How was it validated if the effects of CO2 are “too small to measure”?
The one way to resolve this conundrum is for you to provide a link to your prior answer, or simply repeat what you’ve already written.

Babsy
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 12, 2015 3:32 pm

He has explained it to you. Unfortunately, he can’t understand it for you.

Brandon Gates
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 12, 2015 4:04 pm

Babsy,

He has explained it to you.

And I repeat … So, the possibilities are:
1) You answered it and I missed the post.
2) You answered it and I truly did not understand it was you answer.
3) You didn’t answer it and wish to make it appear I’m debating in bad faith.
4) You did answer it, I read it and understood it, and really am debating in bad faith.
I allow for the possibility I have not read and/or understood his answer in (1) and (2). In (4) I allow for the possibility that I am the lying sack of bull excrement DB says I am.
Now it might occur to an honest, rational person who understood DB’s answer and knew where it was to provide the evidence that I’m:
1) inattentive,
2) stupid, or
4) dishonest
Instead what happens is I get answers like:

Unfortunately, he can’t understand it for you.

… which really makes option (3) look like a strong contender. OTOH, perhaps the both of you are as stupid as you think I am. It’s REAL easy to settle this … all it takes is one little linky linky to DB’s appropriate explanatory comment answering the following question:
How were the TEMPERATURE values in the following plot validated if the effects of CO2 are “too small to measure”?
http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/clip_image0062.jpg
I await a cogent and complete answer with much anticipation. By “cogent and complete” I do not mean something along the lines of, “Gates, you’re a lying idiot.”
Thanks ever so much.

Babsy
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 12, 2015 4:14 pm

Personally, I don’t care if you understand it or not. Not my problem. I’m watching football. Bye.

Brandon Gates
Reply to  Brandon Gates
January 12, 2015 4:28 pm

You’re not a bad place kicker yourself.

Reply to  The Expulsive
January 10, 2015 7:28 pm

The CBC has been busy explaining why they won’t publish the cartoons while most other news organizations have published them. Speaks volumes. CBC ought to go the way of Air Canada and Petro Canada.

CodeTech
Reply to  Wayne Delbeke
January 10, 2015 8:55 pm

There are very few Crown Corporations that we still have any need to dump billions into running. Either private enterprise fills the need, or the need isn’t great enough to justify it.

Janice Moore
January 10, 2015 11:02 am

“When a politician says, “The debate is over” … you can be sure of two things:
1. the debate is raging; and
2. he {or she} is losing it.”
George Will on Fox News Sunday (youtube)

**********************************************
EXCELLENT cartoon, Josh.
When a scientist says (effectively) “shut-up,” you can be sure of one of two things, he or she is:
1. Losing the debate; or
2. A religious zealot.

Reply to  Janice Moore
January 10, 2015 2:11 pm

Happy New Year, Janice!

Janice Moore
Reply to  Tom J
January 10, 2015 2:17 pm

Well, Tom J, after all this time (smile)…
HAPPY NEW YEAR, TO YOU, TOO! #(:))
May it be your best year, so far!
You ARE going to those drag races this year!

TomRude
January 10, 2015 11:36 am

Right on Josh: all mainstream media are buying themselves a cheap virtue on the back of Charlie… while the EU and NATO are using the events to promote their tyranny. One week ago the same media were all stigmatizing anyone who dared to criticize their masters…

Bruce Cobb
January 10, 2015 11:40 am

Oh, the ironing. Paris, of all places. The green blob stands for lies being propounded and defended by those who weild power, which is the basis of fascism.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
January 10, 2015 12:09 pm

More ironing (lol, Bruce Cobb, you are ALWAYS so funny 🙂 —
Vichy France Anti-Allies Propaganda (youtube)

Al Gorebbels on the Den1ers (youtube)

(Note his exquisitely refined and erudite vocabulary.)

BFL
January 10, 2015 11:50 am
January 10, 2015 12:13 pm

Never mind a fundamentalist few, the VAST majority of Muslims have no comprehension of the fact that, to us, nothing is beyond ridicule, even the prophet Mohammed (or even especially). All religion, religious beliefs, sexuality, race, and everything else is fair game for laughter and to poke fun at – it’s what we (I would say especially the British) do. They are just going to have to get used to it. As a white, middle-aged man, I will take no offence about whatever you say about me, my personal beliefs, my politics, and everything I hold dear. Call me what you like. And anyone who takes offence should move to a country of like-minded people. But if you are resident in a country where such ridicule is the norm, then get used to it or piss off.

Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 10, 2015 12:36 pm

Not the vast majority Big Jim, thankfully. But it is a frighteningly and viciously growing set.
They are angry with our crusades in the Middle East, is true and I agree. Does not warrant the response however. And most Muslims I have lived with there agree and have been appalled. Was in Saudi Arabia on 9/11 watching terrorism on CNN with Crowned Princess Loolowah of the Kingdom. She was crying.
We’ve built or are building 50 universities in KSA for sciences (real ones) and professional education. One of the problems is that a generation of youth has attended subsidized university with an exclusive curriculum of Islamic studies = no life skills – and have to hire 500,000/ yr expatriates to run engineering, hospitals . . . and so the youth haven’t the skills to do anything and are ripe for propaganda.
As well the Faisal family thinks they must be an agent for dealing with Islamic terrorism.
We’ll see how that works out with Iran and watch for the energy wars as crude goes to $20/barrel.

Reply to  Bubba Cow
January 10, 2015 12:49 pm

Well I have to say that from experience of talking to many Muslims, the vasy majority cannot abide ridicule of the prophet Mohammed. To them, it’s a step too far. To ‘us’ it’s just one more thing to poke fun at. I do at Christianity, and I will at Islam.

Justthinkin
Reply to  Bubba Cow
January 10, 2015 1:20 pm

“They are angry with our crusades in the Middle East, is true and I agree.”
Bubba Cow…..the Crusades were to recover land that had been taken BY Islam from Christianity. To say they are “angry” says 2 things….they deceived you and…………that is their plan(Taqquia)

Robert of Ottawa
Reply to  Bubba Cow
January 10, 2015 3:20 pm

The Crusades were a totally justified counter-attack. Don’t forget pre-1400 years ago, the middle east was Christian, with other religions co-existing.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Bubba Cow
January 10, 2015 4:17 pm

I think Mr. Cow was referring to the modern wars in the Middle East, not the original Crusades.

Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 10, 2015 12:45 pm

Humor varies with culture, but generally I agree with the get on with it or piss off. With those I have come to know well, they concur, but it works both ways. I have found that respect is essential and then humor is accepted. Can’t criticize the King still, but his daughter used to dress in his clothes and take the Rolls for a ride through town. Agree it is a major work in progress . . . so is this climate crap.

Alan Robertson
Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 10, 2015 12:46 pm

“Y’re ‘n ‘ld c’nt”
– missive from: Keith Richard to Mick Jagger
(couldn’t he’p it)

Janice Moore
Reply to  Alan Robertson
January 10, 2015 4:21 pm

Dear Ghost,
Given the integrity you have consistently demonstrated in your posts on WUWT, I think that you would serve your personal ethos if you, too, were to go investigate the case for the birth, death, and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth, “crucified under Pontius Pilate… etc…. etc… .” I can assure you that you will find more eyewitness testimony and documentary evidence (see the Jewish historian Josephus and the Dead Sea Scrolls, for two sources) for Jesus’ actions and words than ANY other single historical figure of ancient times. In other words, to be intellectually honest, you would also have to stop believing in many, many, other people whose existence you have simply accepted on authority… . Jesus’ historicity is not a serious topic of debate among the majority of historians whether they believe in him as Messiah or just as a famous man.
Examine the evidence. If you want a particular question to guide your research, just focus on the fact of the resurrection and ask: who rolled away the stone? (there is a book of that name, too here: http://www.amazon.com/Who-Moved-Stone-Frank-Morison/dp/0310295610) written by a “sceptical journalist.”
Your WUWT ally for truth AND HUMOR #(:)),
Janice

Reply to  Alan Robertson
January 10, 2015 6:36 pm

documentary evidence (see the Jewish historian Josephus

Dear Janice, ….. see this: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/testimonium.html

Reply to  Alan Robertson
January 11, 2015 1:27 am

Hello Janice. I have read SO much over the years, argued on ‘belief’ forums, got into long conversations with English bishops and vicars. I was once (by my own hand) pitched against a whole ‘club’ of devout Christians on a weblog. Janice, I have argued this so many times, and of course, here isn’t the place. There’s one thing in your post that shines out: and that is the point about the veracity of other historic figures. Janice, not being able to verify others makes no stronger point for the possibility of Christ’s existence. I have researched this over and over, followed up leads from those on both sides, but they all come to one conclusion: when you REALLY look, there is no objective evidence that can be relied upon. Now, I know so well how difficult that is for you and others (and no, I’m actually not being patronising, even though it sounds like it). It is very difficult for me to discuss with you…because you start from the premise that it IS true, as you talk about the ‘resurrection’ as though it actually happened! You call it a “fact”. Do you see?
When I started out about global warming, I thought that it was true. This was around 12-15 years ago. I’m ashamed to say that I just went with the crowd, and listened to people whose opinions I respected and upheld. It was only when I had the time to do a lot of research about the subject that I found there was little or no evidence for AGW. I was shocked. The more I dug, the more I found out that things I was told, weren’t true. In those days, it was John Daly’s fantastic website that got me started (the Anthony of the 1990s!). You HAVE to find out stuff for yourself, with an open mind, to see if what you are told is true. It’s no good listening to others, they have their own belief – usually based on the fact that they themselves have simply listened to others. The idea that Jesus Christ was real is almost unanimous among scholars, but that doesn’t make it real, Janice. Outside of subjective followers, there remains only Josephus and Tacitus. These too, are at the very least mired in question.
Look again, Janice, this time with scientific eyes.
All the best.

mikewaite
Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 10, 2015 12:59 pm

Normally I find myself agreeing with 97% of the comments here on most subjects but I think I feel differently to the Ghost about poking fun.
Politicians , most BBC pundits, overpaid footballers and celebrities are fair game But…
I am not a Royalist but I do not like to hear people mock the Royal Family ,
I am by most criteria a poor Christian but I do not appreciate jokes about Jesus Christ
It is not because I consider them to be all powerful, but the opposite , because they are so vulnerable and
because they represent the tradition and history of the country and society into which I was lucky enough to be born.
At risk or certainty of being cast into the outer darkness I wonder if Moslems have similar feelings for similar reasons about their religious and/or historical figures, though thankfully few will experience more than a temporary annoyance.

Reply to  mikewaite
January 10, 2015 1:14 pm

Britain has a huge and proud history of satire and generally poking fun – it’s what we do…and everything is game, the Royal Family especially so. Don’t take any notice of their ‘not being able to answer back’! They have massive influence on how Britain is run, sometimes on a daily basis. Their little adventures and lapses make them all the more fair game. I can’t think of a funnier and more absurd institution. There isn’t any actual evidence that Jesus Christ existed (go look), hence a mythical figure is also up for ridicule. That’s just how it is, Mike.

Janice Moore
Reply to  mikewaite
January 10, 2015 4:30 pm

Ooops. Ghost, sorry for the mis-posting. I responded to you above, here: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/01/10/portents-in-paris/#comment-1833076
Note: I’m only addressing the narrow question of: Did Jesus exist or not? Whether Jesus was dead when the Roman soldiers took him off the cross (so he could indeed be resurrected), etc, etc… is also potential subject matter for your research (lots of logic and medical facts and other evidence for that, btw), but, not addressed by me here (nor shall it be — I’m already too close to the “disappear” line, now, no doubt, heh).
#(:))

Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 10, 2015 7:39 pm

I was. Interesting how difficult clear communication is. Thanks for your help.

Alex
Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 10, 2015 8:07 pm

Just don’t call me late for dinner

davidmhoffer
January 10, 2015 12:42 pm

The error I see being made here is in the assumption that events in Paris had anything to do with freedom of speech. That is the lens through which the press views the world, and so that is the narrative through which they report it, particularly when it is them and their colleagues who are targeted. But make no mistake about it, this was not about freedom of speech, this was about freedom of religion. This was about members of one religion, through violence, attempting to make everyone else bow to their belief system.
In roughly the same time frame that events were unfolding in Paris, Boko Haram went on a rampage in Nigeria, murdering according to some reports, as many as 2 thousand people, their only “sin” being not bowing to Boko Haram’s religious beliefs. Of those murdered, was there a single cartoonist among them?
The likes of ISIS, Al Qaida, Boko Haram, the Taliban and so many others share a common belief system, that they have the right to force the rest of us to bow to theirs. To suggest otherwise is, I believe, hopelessly naive. Silencing free speech is only a tiny part of their over all strategy and ultimate goals.
First they came for the cartoonists….

Janice Moore
Reply to  davidmhoffer
January 10, 2015 1:23 pm

You’re right, davidmhoffer. Freedom of speech was attacked, but the underlying motive was religious zeal (and also pure power-seeking by cynical thugs who are ultimately only after the wealth of a society and who use the true believers as their rabid hyenas)…. just as do the AGWer enviroprofiteers use the true believers… .
When violence against apostates
(especially if they are … dare we say it?…. Jews)
is one of the tenets of a creed,
it is most emphatically
NOT a “religion of peace.”

4 eyes
Reply to  davidmhoffer
January 10, 2015 2:02 pm

davidmhoffer, I fully agree. And that is the scary bit.

Latitude
Reply to  davidmhoffer
January 10, 2015 2:26 pm

David, you are exactly right..
The next time someone says “religion of peace”…
….ask them to name one Muslim country where Charlie could have printed his cartoons
and if he did, what would have happened to him
Religion of peace my a55……..

Alan Robertson
Reply to  davidmhoffer
January 10, 2015 3:02 pm

Pity the hapless Africans, so frequently beset by this or that outbreak of murderous insanity. Any references to Boko Haram’s latest outrages have been sent far down the back pages, by the typical news outlet’s coverage of the atrocities in Paristan.
Media references to the House of Saud’s “dismay” at the actions of the Parisian attackers have all but disappeared and in their place, reports of the Saudi’s brutal suppression of free speech, by their sentencing of a vocal blogger to 20 consecutive weeks of public floggings, of 50 lashes at a time.
Recent news reports haven’t even begun to scratch the surface of the daily violence against the world, as practiced by the members of the R.O.P.
What’s the world to do in defense; adopt a posture of equivalence and engage in overwhelming levels of medieval ruthlessness, gaining one- upmanship against those now active on the terrorist front? Employ the scythe of death against six degrees of familial and fraternal associations of any known jihadi? There are financiers for all of this foolishness… cut off the heads of the snakes and all of their kith and kin?
The recent Boko Haram rampage went against Muslim and Christian alike, cutting down all those in their path. We’ve often seen that the Islamists’ destruction falls upon far more of their own kind, than of anyone outside the faith, with all of those Muslim deaths, then summarily rationalized and justified. Oh, well.
Master Jesus once enjoined some wayward soul to run as far down his sinful road as it would take him, if that’s what it took for him to see the light. Maybe that’s what it takes for the rest of us- just wait ’em out, they’ll figure it out, or get sick of it, someday- but keep your powder dry.

Alan Robertson
Reply to  Alan Robertson
January 10, 2015 3:18 pm

Pardon, should say above… adopt a posture of methodological equivalence…

Jimbo
Reply to  Alan Robertson
January 11, 2015 7:36 am

And that’s how you differentiate fanatics from the rest of the flock. In Iraq Muslim fanatics kill faaaaar more Muslims than Christians. Boko Haram kills Muslims left, right and centre. So in all fairness we should not forget the MUSLIM victims of the fanatics.

January 10, 2015 12:48 pm

Unease is understandable. Good satire should make us feel unease as when we are comfortable we hardly question our assumptions. It also has to be made plain Josh is not calling for violence but – for me anyway – tolerance.
We can all too easily slip into self censorship because we *might* offend – which allows those with less sensitivity or scruples to put the boot on the throat.
I believe this puts the point across well –
http://kenanmalik.wordpress.com/2015/01/08/je-suis-charlie-its-a-bit-late/
A few weeks back both Ben Pile and myself (independently of each other I add) compared the actions in Nazca with the Taliban blowing up Buddah statues. I was uneasy making the comparison but as a former warmista who once liberally dehumanised sceptics, I am more deeply uneasy with what is/has/will be be done for our grandchildren, the blasé way *some* intolerants are willing to stamp out rights and the dogmatic refusal to alleviate the suffering of those in poverty (e.g. the green ‘terrorism’ in India). Whilst clearly Nazca was not on the same bus, it’s the direction of travel – and calls for violence (death penalties) and censorship of dissent we have seen in the leadup – that is troubling. Intolerance never ends well.
We can only hope that some light may come from this, so godspeed Josh and more power to your arm.
*******
Ben’s effort –
http://www.climate-resistance.org/2014/12/we-need-to-talk-about-green-ngos.html
Mine –
http://weatheraction.wordpress.com/2014/12/11/greenblob-guerillas-in-geoglyph-gaffe/

Paul Westhaver
January 10, 2015 12:48 pm

Josh,
You know it is weird artifact of contemporary geopolitics that puts Muslim extremists in exactly the same camp as the politically correct leftists. Both are against free speech.
I think the cartoonists in Paris were a depraved herd of edgy self indulgent leftists. Despite that, they absolutely have the RIGHT to say whatever they want. I also reserve the same right to say that their cartoons sucked and were juvenile provocateur schlock. Free speech cuts both ways.
And… nobody should be killed for expressing ideas.
Quite frankly, I don’t think I would poke a person in the emotional eye simply for thinking differently than me. Further, I would attempt to convince bomb throwers ( like Charlie Hebdo ) to refrain from extreme language. Further still, I would not want to prevent anyone who may have a beef with me from speaking… IF… one big …IF..
IF I can respond in kind and I also am unencumbered in being able to express my views.
At WUWT Anthony enables this.
In the world in general, if you have a view on AGW that is out of sync with the UN and the lefties, then the lefties literally want to jail you, or/and have you physically prevented from working in climate science, or have you professionally destroyed.
So in a strange way, I am a liberal when it comes to speech, yet I am identified with the right wing on many other issues. At the same time the commies are ant-free speech just like the fascist Muslim jihadists.
Weird.

Reply to  Paul Westhaver
January 10, 2015 12:53 pm

The bridge between communism and facism is a very short one.

milodonharlani
Reply to  Paul Westhaver
January 10, 2015 1:14 pm

Witness how Left wingers who might otherwise lionize a Third World, atheist feminist like Ayaan Hirsi Ali instead vilify her because she tells the truth about elements within Islam.

Reply to  Paul Westhaver
January 10, 2015 7:46 pm

I reacted early to the satirists with “how dumb is that? They’ll pay for it.”
They certainly did and I envy their courage.

Crispin in Waterloo but really in Ulaanbaatar
Reply to  Paul Westhaver
January 11, 2015 2:27 am

Paul Westhaver
I found out that there is a crime in the USA called ‘economic interference’. I don’t have details but basically it means that if someone takes actions that cause you to lose your job or income, for reasons that are unreasonable like, falsely claiming that you are a child or data molester, they are accountable for the damage caused, such as being fired or not hired or demoted or passed over.
It seems to me that targeting academics, in particular, has been successful as demonstrated by Enron being willing to give money to PR firms to do so with a view to making it economically dangerous to oppose CAGW. At the time Enron was trying to corner the natural gas market and ban coal burning for electricity generation.
If anyone can find better info on economic interference I’d like to hear it. At face value it seems it would apply to any loony green assault on the economic welfare of their victims.

Reply to  Paul Westhaver
January 11, 2015 4:06 am

Free Speech cuts both ways.

Yes, it does. And so do the consequences.
I think ex-AIPAC official MJ Rosenberg captured it best with his tweets:

MJ Rosenberg
@MJayRosenberg
If you supported Gaza massacre of unarmed defenseless civilians, shut the fuck up about Paris.
9:14am – 10 Jan 15
——————————-
MJ Rosenberg
@MJayRosenberg
I hate the radical Islamists but THEY didn’t start war with us. We started it with the whole Muslim world. READ.
11:05am – 10 Jan 15

Reply to  UltimateBooks (@UltimateBooks)
January 12, 2015 9:34 am

We went to war with the whole Muslim world? How? By not wanting Israel to cease to exist? By not believing in Islam? Islam was conquering from the very beginning – Mohammed was a mighty warrior king who forged what would become the Caliphate, which conquered areas that were Christian previously. The Crusades were a failed defensive war – it wasn’t until September 11, 1683 that the tide turned against the Caliphate.
If you actually think that radical Islamism, i.e. Islamic Supremacism, was going to be fine with people disagreeing with them, you are incredibly naive. They are theocratic totalitarians – every state should be like the Taliban or Iran. They aren’t even happy with Saudi Arabia – the Saudis dare to have a King instead of an Imam. A free society like France is an abomination to them. That’s why ISIS waves the flag of the ancient Caliphate around – they want to force the world to acknowledge their Islam as the only source of truth in the world, and to convert, enslave, subjugate or kill everyone.

Reply to  UltimateBooks (@UltimateBooks)
January 13, 2015 3:23 am

You ought to take MJ Rosenberg’s advice and read. You can start with this. Hadar makes mincemeat of your histrionics:
The “Green Peril”:
Creating the Islamic Fundamentalist Threat
by Leon T. Hadar, August 27, 1992
Leon T. Hadar, a former bureau chief for the Jerusalem Post, is an adjunct scholar of the Cato Institute
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-177.html
BTW, an Imam is a scholar, not a ruler. There is no priestcraft in Islam. There’s just a book and your relationship with God. People who band together because they have similar understandings of Koranic phrases (like Sunnis, Shiites, Wahabbis) do so because they want to, not because there is an Islamic structure or need for it. There are no priests, bishops, popes, rabbis, or pastors in Islam. Just you and the Koran.

Reply to  UltimateBooks (@UltimateBooks)
January 13, 2015 3:29 am

And read these:
“Something Strange about ISIS” by Gordon Duff.
http://journal-neo.org/2014/12/31/something-strange-about-isis/
“Paris Shooters Just Returned from NATO’s Proxy War in Syria.”
http://journal-neo.org/2015/01/08/paris-shooters-just-returned-from-nato-s-proxy-war-in-syria/

Reply to  UltimateBooks (@UltimateBooks)
January 13, 2015 4:16 am

The Crusades were a failed defensive war.

And here’s what you don’t know about The (nine) Crusades: http://www.medievalwarfare.info/crusades.htm
In conclusion the author writes:

Many Eastern Churches, which had always enjoyed toleration under Muslim rulers, now suffered persecution and decline. The schism between East and West, which might have been healed by allies in war, was instead made permanent. Asia was lost to Christianity and was soon to convert wholesale to Islam. The balance of world power had shifted irrevocably. The death toll of these expeditions will never be known accurately for either side, but it is certain that it numbered hundreds of thousands, and possibly millions. Most of the dead were Christians. In fact Christian forces themselves may have killed as many Christians and Jews as they did Muslims.
Both sides fought fiercely, not to say barbarously. Christian virtues such as mercy and cheek-turning had been almost totally absent throughout, at least on the Christian side. At the end of it all nothing positive had been achieved. Before the crusades, Muslims had established a great reputation for tolerance. Now that they had suffered Christian atrocities and perfidy, they had become fanatical in defence of their religion. As Runciman wrote of the slaughter at Jerusalem during the First Crusade: “It was this bloodthirsty proof of Christian fanaticism that recreated the fanaticism of Islam”. Muslim respect for Eastern Christians was superseded by hatred and contempt for Western ones.

January 10, 2015 12:52 pm

John the Baptist when he saw Jesus said: “Behold the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world”.
I thank God every day I live in a country where freedom of expression is still allowed. Jesus came to redeem us and set us free. If we are not defending our freedom and get cowed into silence, we revert back to The Sin.
In the last days God will send them a strong delusion that they will believe “The Lie” of which all the talk of Climate Change and Carbon Pollution is a symptom.
Here are my thoughts on “The sin of the world” and “The lie”, what does that mean?
http://lenbilen.com/2014/12/22/on-the-sin-of-the-world-and-the-lie-what-does-that-mean/

Reply to  lenbilen
January 10, 2015 12:58 pm

Are you in America? If so, don’t believe for one minute that you really do live in a country where freedom of expression is allowed! How many senators have declared that they are atheist? Sorry Americans, but that’s how it is. We’re no more free here in Britain either. The right wing British National Party is vilified, even though it is a perfectly legal political party. A school governor was recently forced to resign for being a member!

Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 10, 2015 1:12 pm

Yes, even here people are starting to lose their positions if they dare to defend the biblical position on marriage, just to name one thing.

Robert B
Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 10, 2015 6:11 pm

Australia doesn’t have a Minister for Science at the moment because it would be embarrassing to not use the most qualified MP, who happens to be a sceptic.

Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 10, 2015 7:50 pm

I live in America and you are right. In Vermont specifically and certain presses have been ordered not to print climate criticism – LA Times. That is not free.

Streetcred
Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 11, 2015 12:27 am

Are you sure about the US, TGOBJC … Alan Grayson : Republicans Are ‘The White Christian Party’Rep. Alan Grayson (D-FL) writes in the Huffington Post that the Republican Party only represents white Christians because of the demographics of its members in the House of Representatives.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/01/08/alan-grayson-republicans-are-the-white-christian-party/

Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 11, 2015 12:57 am

The US is diseased with/by Christianity (or religious belief, if you prefer, but it’s primarily Christianity). No senator can stand up and say he/she is atheist. They might get away with saying ‘no affiliation’, but they are risking their political career. If the human race is going any way down the road to true civilisation then it must first shake off childish, religious belief. And the US (being one of the dominant players) must be one of the first. Isn’t going to happen, is it?
All Americans should read this next bit:
After the film (movie) ‘Creation’, about Charles Darwin, was made, the makers couldn’t initially find a distributor for the US due to the “controversy” over evolution and creation (in the US)!!! Unbelievable, but actually true.
Astounding. If you really want to change the world, and make it better, then it starts with removing the absurdity which is belief without proof. Isn’t that what we’re all trying to achieve here, on WUWT? The US MUST move away from religious belief. It could lead the world into a new era…of true enlightenment. But like I said above, isn’t going to happen, is it?

mebbe
Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 11, 2015 6:48 pm

Religion is, in large part, superstition and superstition appears to be a universal human tendency.
It’s probably unrealistic to wish for it to vanish.
What we can do is establish a strong and continuously evolving social framework to mitigate the effects of irrational belief. I think the western world has made a good start and most of Asia appears to be on the same page.
As much as it is desirable that the populace be enlightened, a more attainable goal is having institutions that are ‘better’ than the individuals that comprise them. Thus the penalty for a senator professing atheism is an inability to get elected, not state-sanctioned execution.
There is room for improvement but a glance at the Muslim world shows the compass bearing we want behind us.

Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 12, 2015 2:27 pm

Ghost, I’m replying to your speech against Christianity in America.
I cannot stand by and allow you to say something that stands in such sharp contrast to the things you’ve declared in this comment section. When emotional and spirited passions drive like a spike through the mind, it is no longer capable of thinking clearly. It is no better to declare the expunging of faith (Christianity) from society than it was for Hitler to declare the expunging of Jews. Both result in the greatest possible damage to the most vulnerable level of society: the individual. Yet as Hitler’s damage was grand and morbid, atheism is one of mind and heart, while both are murder.
Frankly, there are politicians at every level who cleave to no particular faith. There are some who are atheist, agnostic, theistic, and full members of major faiths. It is absurd to so narrowly examine only the Federal level when there is also the state, county, and local principalities. Even still, many of those who are of “no-faith” are clear enough in mind to control that passion. That is, they don’t burn with the fiery, vigorous passions of atheism like teenagers do with their sexual lusts. They are able to make rational and fair decisions, and respect the law of the land, without compromising the structures that uplift the freedom of religion. Freedom of religion, it should be noted, covers as much the atheists (the religion of no-religion) as it does the Christians, Jews, Muslims, and the Eastern Asian faiths. If nothing protected faith, then no protection is afforded the “no-faith” religions, and atheists are on par with Christians and Jews and Muslims.
Put simply: passions should not guide law. Do not suggest America remove any element of its faith basis. That is extraordinarily unreasonable, and such thoughts and passions lead to destruction.

Krudd Gillard of the Commondebt of Australia
January 10, 2015 12:53 pm

The same ones who are pulling the strings on “climate change” are the ones who are promoting the islamification of our democracies.

Jimmy Haigh.
January 10, 2015 12:53 pm

I’m afraid that France made its bed and is now having to lie on it. Welcome to the new, “improved”, multi-cultural world…

ivor ward
January 10, 2015 1:19 pm

If you break a gun in half you have scrap metal. If you break a pencil in half you have two pencils.
Think about it.
I will be standing in the square tomorrow with my pencil

Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
Reply to  ivor ward
January 10, 2015 2:06 pm

If you break a gun in half you have two clubs — normally a bad strategy unless you have run out of ammunition and have a friend with you who neglected to bring a weapon of his own.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
January 10, 2015 3:57 pm

If you break a gun in half you’re mighty strong, and probably don’t need one.

handjive
Reply to  ivor ward
January 10, 2015 3:15 pm

Ivor, if you wish to stand with Charlie Hebdo, you would be acknowledging their debt by standing in the square tomorrow with a copy of a Charle Hebdo cartoon.
That is a sign of free-speech.
The hashtag is a sign of surrender.

Athelstan.
January 10, 2015 1:31 pm

“free speech” – Britain doesn’t know what it is.
Free speech, or what we once knew as ‘free speech’ disappeared in the UK and long ago.
Throughout, the Twenties and Thirties and into the Fifties, Trotskyism, Marxism was rife on the red Brick and Oxbridge campuses, here, the Marxists of academia were virtually unchallenged. With Communist inspired lecturers working in University campuses on both sides of the pond [Ralph Miliband for one] Marxist ‘critical’ theory was so disseminated and augmented. Slowly drip by drip, Socialism it had seeped into politics but post WW II in a big way, culminating and the pathogen of Marxist ideologies they were not fully incarnate until Wilsons’ clutch of Cultural Marxists took over in 1964.
As Enoch Powell forewarned and presciently, racial discrimination laws would cause divisive imbalance and lead to the unequal rights of the indigenous people, where those of minorities supersede those of the majority. All of it, is classic Frankfurt School doctrine as are, the fellow malefactors of; diversity, promotion of [in]equality = multiculturalism.
A UK fashioned antecessor to the spavined doctrine of ‘Political Correctness’. PC was birthed – in the 60’s and when the Frankfurt School poisons were entering our system all the way from the Ivy League and by way of and on the vehicle of ‘civil rights agenda’.
The final nails were driven in by Tony Bliar scorched earth Britain circa 1997-2010 but a crucial time and the beginning of the end of Britain when we were dragooned against the will of the people: into the EU. Soon after, without a national consultation [as it ever was] – in 1976 Parliament enacted the Race discrimination Act and after that: free speech in the UK was closed down for good.

Reply to  Athelstan.
January 10, 2015 3:38 pm

Indeed, but freedom of thought, of free speech, doesn’t exist in any country.

James Abbott
Reply to  Athelstan.
January 10, 2015 4:07 pm

What a pile of rubbish. Try saying what you think in North Korea, China, Iran, Saudi Arabia and many more besides and then compare that to the UK. The UK is far from perfect but for goodness sake, the idea that it is run by Marxists and there is no free speech is just delusional.

Reply to  James Abbott
January 10, 2015 7:55 pm

In Saudi Arabia, one can only say what one thinks to Saudis, when asked privately behind closed doors. But they have asked to learn what you think. Wahabism is strong and change requires care.

Reply to  James Abbott
January 10, 2015 8:00 pm

I should add to that, even if I am the only one left here – good science.
I was asked in close conference by Saudi Royal family members for my opinion of what could be improved.
I told them that in my neighborhood, if my neighbors tree fell down from a storm and crapped on my fence, I would go visit my neighbor and we’d work together to clear up that tree and fix the fence.
I said too, you have 12 foot walls erected around you castles and therefore have allowed no neighbors.

ralfellis
Reply to  Athelstan.
January 10, 2015 4:25 pm

Indeed.
Remember that the knuckle-dragging thugs of Unite Against F@scism (UAF) are organised by NAFTHE, the university lecturers union. For those in the US who are not familiar with UK politics, if there is ever trouble at a demonstration it is always caused by UAF thugs. So those who are supposedly against f@scism are, in fact, anti-freedom of speech f@scists who will not tolerate or allow any point of view bar their own. That, unfortunately, is the Orwellian situation we find ourselves in.
And then we had the delightful spectacle of liberal feminists stripping off and shouting ‘we are all Hamas now’. Hmm, do these ‘ladies’ (if one dares to call them ladies) realise that Hamas would have them dressed in potato sacks and chained to a kitchen in an instant? One does wonder if feminists are naturally subnormal, or whether they have to go on a training course.
R

Janice Moore
Reply to  ralfellis
January 10, 2015 4:43 pm

Hi, Ralph Ellis (smile),
Well… while I do not agree with what many of those who call themselves “feminists” say or do, I consider myself to be one, so I’ll give you one feminist’s (my off-the-cuff definition is “equal rights and equal opportunity to serve humanity according to giftedness, not gender”) answer.
No. I did not attend a training course. Equality for women just always seemed to me to be logical, wise, and fair play.
(okay, okay, (smile) I acknowledge that I realized what you meant by “feminists”… I think… and I understand and agree…. very obnoxious)
Your Friendly Feminist Ally for Truth in Science,
Janice

Jimbo
Reply to  Athelstan.
January 11, 2015 8:27 am

Athelstan.
…..free speech in the UK was closed down for good.

There is free speech within the bounds of UK law so you exaggerate.
What Athelstan failed to mention was that before the Race Relations Act 1976 landlords would put up signs on their doors saying “No Jews, No Blacks, No Dogs”. In the southern US states they too used to put up various restrictive signs if you know what I mean. Some may say it’s OK. Others don’t. Who is to decide?

richardscourtney
January 10, 2015 1:35 pm

Josh
Thankyou.
Je suis Charlie.
Richard

milodonharlani
Reply to  richardscourtney
January 10, 2015 1:56 pm

Not to detract from your salutary sentiment, but IMO few in the West can validly claim to be Charlie. Ayaan Hirsi Ali can. I´ve volunteered for virtually no financial gain to be shot at by the Taliban, but don´t feel I´ve earned the right to associate myself with such exemplary physical & moral courage as Charb & his colleagues (even while I don´t share the satirical magazine´s overall philosophy), although some of my comrades in arms have indeed.

Janice Moore
Reply to  milodonharlani
January 10, 2015 2:57 pm

Yes, Mr. Harlani. I am not likely to be murdered or severely harmed for what I post on WUWT or anywhere else, for that matter. I realize that. I do not, by identifying myself with Monsieur Hebdo, award the honor of a true warrior for truth to myself. I am just saying to all Mus1im j1hadists everywhere: “Given the opportunity, I, too, will pick up the bloodied flag of truth and carry onward. To stop truth’s advance, you will have to k1ll me, too.
For I, too, am Charlie.
Just as the world stood with us Americans on September 11th (and in the days to come), 2001 and said: “We are all Americans.”

Reply to  milodonharlani
January 10, 2015 8:13 pm

Janice – you may have read above that I was in Saudi on 9/11.
It is important for us infidels to appreciate that there are two jihads – the greater and the lesser. The greater is the requirement for you to become a better person, the lesser is the requirement for you to help me become a better person – that’s the one that has been bastardized to believe you must attack me. You were suppose to help me come to Islam.

Janice Moore
Reply to  milodonharlani
January 10, 2015 8:34 pm

Bubba:
That you were in “Saudi” at the time America was attacked does nothing to add weight to your assertions.
You are misinformed about what the K0ran and the interpretations called “ijtihad” (sp?) say IN FULL about k1ll1ing 1nfidels. Your “lesser j1ihad” is not an illegitimate child — it was born of Father K0ran and Mother Ijtihad (sp?).
That there are peaceful, “greater j1had,” Musl1ms is IRRELEVANT. That these are the majority of those calling themselves “Musl1im” is IRRELEVANT.
It only takes a handful of zealots, devoted to following their faith’s clear calls to v1olence, to wreak havoc.
The murdering j1had1sts are following 1slam. Period.

Reply to  milodonharlani
January 10, 2015 9:04 pm

Janice – of course you are right. The path has been diverted from the faith by whomever wants to justify their actions.

Reply to  milodonharlani
January 10, 2015 9:13 pm

Janice – a little more, as I am not religious or much of a philosopher.
I helped teach a course in Islam in a small college – was a good effort. There is a huge disconnect between what someone, say Muhammed who was ignorant and had his 2nd wife write down might have believed Gabriel told him after hallucinating in a desert for whatever and what say life is like today. Lotsa lost in translation there.
And that’s the point – how does one interpret stuff today based upon an age ago? Seems like reading CET to me. I accept some, but what does that predicate?
I am not being difficult here; I am a simple fisherman.

Reply to  milodonharlani
January 10, 2015 9:31 pm

Janice – I am not begging any argument. there really are these 2 jihads and I am not arguing about anything. Those who are using jihad for personal purposes are agiain’st the Qu’ran.

richardscourtney
Reply to  milodonharlani
January 10, 2015 10:38 pm

Janice
Yes! Thankyou.
Richard

Chris Schoneveld
Reply to  richardscourtney
January 10, 2015 10:48 pm

Richard, according to Mark Steyn you are in good company:

the streets are full of cowards, phonies and opportunists waving candles and pencils and chanting “Je suis Charlie.”

richardscourtney
Reply to  Chris Schoneveld
January 10, 2015 10:59 pm

Chris Schoneveld
So, according to you and Mark Steyn those who express solidarity with murdered victims of extremism are “cowards, phonies and opportunists”.
If that is the best you can contribute then I suggest you provide nothing.
Richard

Chris Schoneveld
Reply to  Chris Schoneveld
January 11, 2015 8:42 am

The widow of Charb, the editor and cartoonist, was interviewed on French TV and she pointed out the hypocrisy of people who now walk with the slogan “je suis Charlie” and they were often the same people who were criticizing her husband for being an Islamophobe before the killing. There were very few people who supported Charlie Hebdo and the paper was in financial trouble. The paper was considered politically very incorrect with respect to the Islam. That is what Mark Steyn is alluding to.

January 10, 2015 1:38 pm

Many years ago, when I was but a wee child (ok, it’s a stupid start) I was riding with my siblings and mother on the overnight Santa Fe RR from Chicago to Los Angeles. (Gives away my age, doesn’t it.) Anyway, there was a young serviceman traveling on that same train and he did me an incalculable favor. You see, he was absorbing the wisdom of a Mad Magazine, and he introduced me to it. At the age of eight I acquired the wisdom of the ages. What an absolutely cool magazine. And one that could appeal to, both a military grunt, and an eight year old. Over the years, unfortunately, I have fallen away from the faith. But, perhaps due to the wishes of the Supreme Arbiter of the Universe (George Washington’s description) I chanced upon an anniversary edition and purchased it last year.
What does the foregoing have to do with the tragic events in France? Not much. I can’t speak a lick of French (I’m a unilingual American) so I couldn’t understand diddly about the cartoons in Charlie Hebro. But then I heard it described as the French equivalent of Mad Magazine (albeit certainly a bit – or a lot – more explicit at times).
Even an eight year old can understand the absolute vital necessity to criticize, question, make fun of, and downright mock, not just those things that groups hold sacred, but especially those very same things. Authority needs to have its feet held to the fire. Everywhere. Every time. Dress these people in the clown suits that they deserve to wear.

Alan Robertson
Reply to  Tom J
January 10, 2015 3:11 pm

What, me worry?

Reply to  Tom J
January 10, 2015 8:08 pm

The Onion is the resurrection of Mad Magazine and probably Doonesbury too.
My daughter gave me a book of Onion covers for Christmas making me fearful of the similarity of our senses of humor.
One cover of asteroid streaming to earth – could this one event fix Iraq, Global Warming, and Poverty? Priceless.

Neil
January 10, 2015 1:45 pm

Na zi ism never dies, it just morphs into different forms.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Neil
January 10, 2015 1:53 pm

And, for its perennial use of Jews as its scapegoats, it is at least as old as Haman’s day. (Book of Esther)
In the end, truth wins.
Every time.

MichaelS
Reply to  Janice Moore
January 10, 2015 8:35 pm

“In the end the truth wins”
But too often, the wait can be deadly.

Jimmy Haigh.
January 10, 2015 1:54 pm

I’m in agreement with Mark Steyn on all of this “Je suis Charlie” stuff. No – you’re not. “Charlie” published the “Mohammed cartoons” and died for it – because very few others had the balls to do it.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Jimmy Haigh.
January 10, 2015 3:01 pm

Then, Mark Steyn does not get “je suis Charlie.”
That SOME who say it would run away when actually faced with danger does not make ALL of us who say it cowardly blowhards.

Jimmy Haigh.
January 10, 2015 1:57 pm

Mark Steyn’s latest column.
http://www.steynonline.com/6744/hollande-daze

Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
Reply to  Jimmy Haigh.
January 10, 2015 2:10 pm

Seconded. Like most every Steyn column, well worth a read.

Chris Schoneveld
Reply to  Jimmy Haigh.
January 10, 2015 10:50 pm

Thumbs up for Steyn!

Editor
January 10, 2015 2:46 pm

Josh. On seeing your cartoon, my immediate reaction was unease – it’s a step too far. But having read all the comments, some of which especially davidmhoffer’s were excellent and thoughtful, I have shifted my thinking a bit. Thank you.

January 10, 2015 2:58 pm

I can’t recall who said it but a twentieth century dictator once assured his subjects, “I support your right to freedom of speech and anyone who disagrees I will crush, I will kill!”
Hard to argue with that.

Sleepalot
Reply to  The definition guy
January 11, 2015 4:59 am

The key word is “your” – “your right to freedom of speech”: it should be “the universal right”.
I’d guess he was only speaking to his supporters.

Tom in Florida
January 10, 2015 3:25 pm

Organized religions will be the eventual downfall of the human race. Unless everyone finally comes to the realization that it is religion that is the cause of all strife and unless everyone stops using their religion as an excuse to inflict their will on someone else we will never be free of war. If we can somehow overcome the fear that we cannot live without a god to worship perhaps we can break the bondage that holds us all hostage to some fictional higher power and then peace will guide the planets and love will steer the stars.

Reply to  Tom in Florida
January 10, 2015 3:46 pm

Couldn’t agree more Tom. That day will come, but it’s still quite some way off. Although I am an atheist, I am very often tempted to let people have their beliefs without comment, without ridicule. I sometimes think, well if it brings them comfort, let it be. But your words are so right. Unfortunately, a belief in something for which there is no evidence is a very slippery path. And faith unfortunately is like a virus which, those affected, feel the need to pass on. And there will always be those affected who think that they have a duty to spread it by any and all means.

Reply to  Tom in Florida
January 10, 2015 8:20 pm

I would amend that to “organized religion” which I have left.
I have used photos of snowflakes in the Middle East to prove the existence of God.
Of course we are scientists and will produce these explanations of such that when water phase shifts into a hard form, these molecules bind to one another in blah blah blah, but we didn’t cause that.
The details are beyond our control.

January 10, 2015 3:34 pm

http://www.theobjectivestandard.com and http://www.aynrand.org have articles supporting freedom of speech.
(I’m not direct-linking in order to reduce odds of rejection.)

Reply to  Keith Sketchley
January 10, 2015 3:46 pm

Sorry, hard to find things on their new web site:
ttps://ari.aynrand.org/issues/government-and-business/individual-rights/Freedom-of-Speech-We-Will-Not-Cower#filter-bar?utm_source=bluehornet&utm_medium=impactweekly&utm_campaign=010815 should get the page.
For TOS, the slide show cycles through recent blog articles, look for the cartoons.

u.k.(us)
January 10, 2015 3:39 pm

Just having a little fun:
Kenjisstorm is 2 minutes from running in the 7th at Santa Anita.

u.k.(us)
Reply to  u.k.(us)
January 10, 2015 3:51 pm

Finished 4th, gave them a scare though.

James Abbott
January 10, 2015 4:02 pm

That is a disgusting article and cartoon.
The murderous behaviour of religiously motivated nutters has nothing to do with scientific debate.
This website may contain a lot which many would disagree with, but it is rightly free to speak its mind and its disgraceful to make any comparison with what happened in Paris.
The religiously motivated terrorists (actually fascists) such as Boko Haram and ISIS are killing thousand of people a month across a swath of countries, taking innocent people into slavery, burning down schools and using children as suicide bombers. Their victims deserve better than to have their suffering compared to the climate change debate.
That cartoon really is offensive – not to Greens, but to the victims of terrorism.

u.k.(us)
Reply to  James Abbott
January 10, 2015 4:51 pm

Maybe I’m not that easily offended.
The cartoon did nothing for me.
I’m still trying to make sense of it.
Something to do with “strange bedfellows” ?
It certainly didn’t send me into a tizzy.
Get a grip.

James Abbott
Reply to  u.k.(us)
January 10, 2015 5:12 pm

Didn’t offend me either – but it is clearly making a comparison between “The Green Blob” curtailing free speech (which is tosh) and the appalling deaths of journalists in Paris at the hands of terrorists. There is no connection whatsoever between the two things – it is just an opportunist piece of stupidity, an insult to those killed and the person who drew it should really think hard as to whether they think this is the right thing to do in the circumstances. There will rightly be people of all faiths and none, climate change sceptics, Greens and many more on the big march tomorrow in Paris – all standing up for free speech.

u.k.(us)
Reply to  u.k.(us)
January 10, 2015 5:47 pm

Seems like you are reading a lot into a cartoon (admittedly dark).
The rules of society say ya gotta play nice, you want to change that ?
It can get really ugly with no rules.

Reply to  u.k.(us)
January 10, 2015 7:17 pm

James Abbott says:
It is pathetic opportunism to try and associate two things which have no association.
Like Holocaust deniers and skeptics of man-made global warming?

ralfellis
Reply to  James Abbott
January 10, 2015 5:11 pm

The murderous behaviour of religiously motivated nutters has nothing to do with scientific debate.
_______________________________________
Au contraire, James. Sadly contraire. It has everything to do with scientific debate.
Militant Islam is not simply content with closing down freedom of speech, it also has a habit of closing down science too. Which is why Bayero University in Nigeria was attacked with 20 killed, it is why all the schools on Borno were closed, and it is why the school in Peshawar was attacked with 140 children killed. A small clue to the true goals of the Nigerian Islamists is in their name, Boko Haram, meaning ‘Western Education is Forbidden’. If you think education and science is going to progress under militant Islam, please think again.
And anti-educationism is not just a facet of militant Islam. Classical Islam only teaches Arabic and the Koran until a child (usually a boy) reaches eleven. Is it any wonder that Muslims are disadvantaged, in a competitive world economy? And the proof of this disadvantage lies in the Nobel Prizes for science. The 1.5 billion people within Islam have gained just two Nobel Prizes. (Yup, just two.) On the other hand Judaism, with just 14 million people, have gained 131 Nobel Prizes, just for science. (Yup, one hundred and thirty one.)
Now I know that liberals find such comparisons upsetting. And I know that liberals will always try and close down debate by shouting ‘ism’, ‘ism’, ‘ism’, because they hate the truth, but we need to recognise and deal with the facts. Islam has done nothing for science, technology, industry and civilisation for more than 500 years. **
Islam cannot do science because all of knowledge is contained within the Koran. And so a good Muslim scientist must believe that the Sun moves around the Earth and sets into a muddy pool, as well as believing in the principles of modern science. And yes, I have seen this sad dichotomy many times first hand, while I was there, with academics desperately trying to justify koranic ‘science’ alongside real science.
R
** Even the Golden Age of Islam is a myth. Not one of the supposed Islamic inventions from the Golden Age was actually Islamic. They were all previous Egyptian, Greek and Persian discoveries, or made by Agnostics or Syriacs.

James Abbott
Reply to  ralfellis
January 10, 2015 5:24 pm

Some of what you say, I agree with and I have been writing about it (not on WUWT because it is not relevant) for some time now. The growth of fascism motivated by religion is deeply worrying, including attacks on education by The Taliban, Boko Haram and their ilk.
But you are not addressing my main point – which is what possible justification is there for comparing the sick murders of journalists in Paris with “The Green Blob” ? It is pathetic opportunism to try and associate two things which have no association. Its the same as the attempts to links Greens with Nazis – in reality it would be difficult to find two more opposing world views.
The sceptic community does itself no favours with these name calling comparisons, its simply childish.

Alan Robertson
Reply to  ralfellis
January 10, 2015 6:33 pm

James,
The cartoon’s comparison is exceedingly relevant. Any shortfall in the comparison is only a question of degree. There are many citations in this thread alone, which speak of the willful persecution by the Greens, of anyone who disagrees with their view of the world. There are myriad other examples of Green attempts to muzzle all other voices, as well as calls for extreme measures of either governmental or Mob action against the unfaithful. So far, Green eco- terrorists in the USA at least, have only resorted to burning down homes and businesses and have only called for overt violence against others. Nevertheless, Green policies are unquestionably responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people, to date.
The most fundamental tenet of modern Green philosophy is also the most dangerous idea which humanity has ever faced, that is the idea that too many human beings exist.

Reply to  ralfellis
January 10, 2015 7:42 pm

@ Alan Robertson

The most fundamental tenet of modern Green philosophy is also the most dangerous idea which humanity has ever faced

The current Green philosophy is just an extension of the “back-to-nature” philosophy of the Khmer Rouge and its leader Pol Pot. See: http://www.history.com/topics/pol-pot

mebbe
Reply to  ralfellis
January 10, 2015 8:49 pm

No disagreement on the unenlightened core of Islam and I blame Bernard Lewis for attributing Indian discoveries to the Muslim world. However, the immediate issue is not how anti-science they are but how belligerent.
It is their social vision that is repugnant and their attempts to promulgate it. 80% of Egyptian citizens endorse the death penalty for apostasy (Pew 2012). It’s less important how they feel about chemistry.

mebbe
Reply to  James Abbott
January 10, 2015 7:08 pm

Josh does lots of good cartoons. This is not one of them. Lame, at best and a tacky distraction from a current situation that merits some time in the limelight. Greenies are not caliphists or daesh trash.
As an aside, James, it’s odd to call it disgusting and offensive and then say it didn’t offend you.

Grey Lensman
Reply to  James Abbott
January 10, 2015 8:05 pm

Yes but the BBC did push freedom of speech and right to offend as hard as they could. but missing their own strict censorship and denial of air time to those they dislike, the real scientists.

Jimbo
Reply to  James Abbott
January 11, 2015 8:52 am

James Abbott
January 10, 2015 at 4:02 pm
That is a disgusting article and cartoon…..

James, please tell me which of the following climate quotes you find disgusting? Also show me the ones that encourage “scientific debate” over ‘global warming’? Take your time.

[links to sources]
+++++
Death penalty for global warming deniers?
An objective argument…a conservative conclusion
“At the end of that process, some GW deniers would never admit their mistake and as a result they would be executed. Perhaps that would be the only way to stop the rest of them. The death penalty would have been justified in terms of the enormous numbers of saved future lives.”
Richard Parncutt, Professor of Systematic Musicology, University of Graz – 2012
============
NYT suggests ‘deniers’ should be stabbed through the heart – like vampires
(cartoon)
WUWT – 2014
============
National Clean Energy Summit With Reid and Schwarzenegger
Speaking of greenhouse gas deniers: “Strap some conservative-thinking people to a tailpipe for an hour and then they will agree it’s a pollutant!
Arnolod Schwarzenegger – 2013
============
“When we’ve finally gotten serious about global warming, when the impacts are really hitting us and we’re in a full worldwide scramble to minimize the damage, we should have war crimes trials for these bastards — some sort of climate Nuremberg.”
David Roberts – Grist – 2006
============
“They are the same people who deny the link between smoking and cancer,” he said. “They are people who say that asbestos is as good as talcum powder – and I hope they put it on their faces every day.”
Dr. Rajendra Pachauri – 2010
============
“In an age when most people are sensitive to acts of terrorism and the safety of children, I’m stunned the makers behind the “10:10 No Pressure” video would combine these two concepts in order to raise awareness about climate change.
….the video ”punishes” those indifferent to acting on climate change by blowing them up. This includes children. Seriously, blowing up kids?…”
Watching The Deneirs
============
“This week we received a deluge of free books from the Heartland Institute {this or this }. The book is entitled “The Mad, Mad, Made World of Climatism”. SHown above, Drs. Bridger and Clements test the flammability of the book.”
San Jose State University – Department of Meteorology and Climate Science – 2013

January 10, 2015 4:07 pm

I was wondering whatever happened to Ann Barnhardt. (a little crazy eyed, but brave for what she did several years ago with her bacon bookmarked Koran) and the response she gave to the death threat: (her original YouTube videos with these quotes are nowhere to be found now):
____________________________________________________________________
“She has taken on Islam and they have noticed.
Here is her response to a death threat.
DEATH THREAT:
To: annbarnhardt
I’m going to kill you when I find you. Don’t think I
won’t, I know where you and your parents live and
all I’ll need is one phone-call to kill you all.
mufcadnan123!
———————————————-
ANN’S RESPONSE:
Re: Watch your back.
Hello mufcadnan123!
You don’t need to “find” me. My address is 9175
Kornbrust Circle, Lone Tree , CO 80124 .
Luckily for you, there are daily DIRECT FLIGHTS from
Heathrow to Denver . Here’s what you will need to do. After
arriving at Denver and passing through customs, you will
need to catch the shuttle to the rental car facility. Once in
your rental car, take Pena Boulevard to I-225 south. Proceed
on I-225 south to I-25 south. Proceed south on I-25 to Lincoln
Avenue which is exit 193. Turn right (west) onto Lincoln .
Proceed west to the fourth light, and turn left (south) onto
Ridgegate Boulevard . Proceed south, through the roundabout
to Kornbrust Drive . Turn left onto Kornbrust Drive and then
take an immediate right onto Kornbrust Circle . I’m at 9175.
Just do me one favor. PLEASE wear body armor. I have some
new ammunition that I want to try out, and frankly, close-quarter
body shots without armor would feel almost unsporting from my perspective. That and the fact that I’m probably carrying a good
50 I.Q. points on you makes it morally incumbent upon me to spot
you a tactical advantage. However, being that you are a
miserable, trembling coward I realize that you probably are incapable of actually following up on any of your threats without losing control of your bowels and crapping your pants while simultaneously sobbing yourself into hyperventilation. So, how about this: why don’t you contact the main mosque here in Denver and see if some of the local musloids
here in town would be willing to carry out your attack for you?
After all, this is what your “perfect man” mohamed did (pig
excrement be upon him).”
_______________________________________________________________
She did a facebook post just yesterday – hadn’t seen anything from her recently:
http://www.barnhardt.biz/2015/01/07/the-one-and-only-way-to-deal-with-musloids-i-did-it-the-french-magazine-did-not/

January 10, 2015 4:11 pm

I like to read conspiracy theorist websites, blogs and Facebook posts after events that prompt world wide mainstream media solidarity of narrative. Not because I automatically agree with their conclusions (though the desire to slip on a tin foil hat is sometime quite strong) but because they help one to break from mainstream propaganda by seeing (if this make sense) alternate propaganda.
On the events in Paris, the tin foil hatters point out that France just agreed to recognise Palestine as a legitimate separate state amongst other things. Obviously they don’t believe this is coincidence. I will reserve judgement for now.
My own opinions and beliefs are that everytime news agencies go into hysteria over something like this there are two very predictable responses. Many non Muslims will increase their intolerance against Muslims and many Muslims will feel repressed and sympathise with the terrorists.
The fear of terrorists, to me, is part of the same agenda as the fear of global warming and is being exploited by the same people. They both lead to laws that strip away freedoms and sovereignty from ordinary people and put power in the hands of an oligarchy of global elite.
Our Western democracies are perverted by fear of climate on the Left and fear of Jihad on the Right.

Khwarizmi
Reply to  wickedwenchfan
January 10, 2015 7:23 pm

Great post!
There’s a lot of things about the story that don’t add up – too many things to mention on a site with a focus on climate. e.g people who get shot at near point blank range generally bleed, thousands of professionally printed identical signs ready to roll out immediately after the incident in a mass display of orchestrated outrage. One of the alleged culprits was in a class at school at the time of the incident: his classmates proclaimed his innocence when the media named him as a villain. An Israeli TV producer filmed the incident from the roof.
It’s those kind of things that make you go, “hmmmmm.” But you also get you labeled with Orwellian epithets by the online Thought Police when you mention them.
There’s also the important question of who benefits–cui bono–and it sure ain’t Muslims!
Best to do your own research as a skeptic. Looks like you already did.

mebbe
Reply to  Khwarizmi
January 10, 2015 9:02 pm

I can do better than that! None of it ever happened! All filmed in studio. Charlie hebdo CIA front.
So the west can steal everyone’s oil and give it to Koch bros.

Jimbo
Reply to  Khwarizmi
January 11, 2015 9:05 am

It looks like the 3rd ‘suspect’ was in class at the time of the shooting. He gave himself into police when he heard he was a suspect.

January 10, 2015 4:13 pm

I noticed that Ann Barnhardt finally made a Facebook post a couple days ago. The post I made with original quotes was moderated (I don’t blame you)…

January 10, 2015 4:20 pm

I’ll try to post again…
I was wondering whatever happened to Ann Barnhardt. (a little crazy eyed, but brave for what she did several years ago with her bacon bookmarked Koran) and the response she gave to the death threat: (her YouTube videos with these quotes are no where to be found now):
____________________________________________________________________
“She has taken on Islam and they have noticed.
Here is her response to a death threat.
DEATH THREAT:
To: annbarnhardt
I’m going to kill you when I find you. Don’t think I
won’t, I know where you and your parents live and
all I’ll need is one phone-call to kill you all.
mufcadnan123!
———————————————-
ANN’S RESPONSE:
Re: Watch your back.
Hello mufcadnan123!
You don’t need to “find” me. My address is 9175
Kornbrust Circle, Lone Tree , CO 80124 .
Luckily for you, there are daily DIRECT FLIGHTS from
Heathrow to Denver . Here’s what you will need to do. After
arriving at Denver and passing through customs, you will
need to catch the shuttle to the rental car facility. Once in
your rental car, take Pena Boulevard to I-225 south. Proceed
on I-225 south to I-25 south. Proceed south on I-25 to Lincoln
Avenue which is exit 193. Turn right (west) onto Lincoln .
Proceed west to the fourth light, and turn left (south) onto
Ridgegate Boulevard . Proceed south, through the roundabout
to Kornbrust Drive . Turn left onto Kornbrust Drive and then
take an immediate right onto Kornbrust Circle . I’m at 9175.
Just do me one favor. PLEASE wear body armor. I have some
new ammunition that I want to try out, and frankly, close-quarter
body shots without armor would feel almost unsporting from my perspective. That and the fact that I’m probably carrying a good
50 I.Q. points on you makes it morally incumbent upon me to spot
you a tactical advantage. However, being that you are a
miserable, trembling coward I realize that you probably are incapable of actually following up on any of your threats without losing control of your bowels and crapping your pants while simultaneously sobbing yourself into hyperventilation….”
_______________________________________________________________
She did a facebook post just recently finally:

Paul Westhaver
January 10, 2015 4:46 pm

Exactly on subject, today on Breitbart:
New York Times columnist David Brooks discussed the free speech implications of last week’s terror attack in view of the intolerance to speak freely on university campuses:
“And so my point for this country is that if we are going to tolerate offensive talk, or if we’re going to expect, frankly Islamist radicals to tolerate offensive talk, then we have to tolerate offensive talk,” Brooks continued. “And we have to invite people to speak at our campuses who are offensive some of the time. And we have to widen our latitude in that area. And this should be a reminder that we have cracked down on that and we have strangled debate. And if you are going to stand up and say I’m with Charlie, then you should also stand up at home and say, I protect people even if they offend me.”
http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/01/10/brooks-dont-expect-radical-islam-to-tolerate-offensive-talk-if-us-college-campus-dont/

January 10, 2015 4:58 pm

What happened is terrible.
But let’s not pretend France or Europe has free speech. They don’t. You are threatened for, and many serve sentences and get fines for, blasphemy there.

ralfellis
Reply to  Christoph Dollis
January 10, 2015 5:22 pm

You are threatened for blasphemy there.
_____________________________________
But only if you criticise Islam. You can blaspheme against Christianity all you like, and nothing will happen. You can dress Jesus in a big nappy, and the BBC will just laugh. But if you say one leeetle thing against Islam, or make one quote from their book, the police will be round with an arrest warrant.**
The problem with Europe is not that we don’t have freedom of speech, it is more that the freedoms we do have are very one-sided.
R
** I am Atheist, by the way, so this is not my bias.

Reply to  ralfellis
January 10, 2015 5:35 pm

No, if you question the holocaust, even the number of people killed, which is now holy writ.
Now, I tend to think it happened more or less as we are told (even though, as a child, I was told that Dachau and other camps in Germany and the west were purpose-built extermination camps used to kill Jews and then later that changed, for some reason, to the gas chambers there weren’t used for that purpose, but the ones controlled by the Soviets were—odd; there were other discrepancies such as massive adjustments about the numbers of Jews killed at Auschwitz, downward, without the 6 million figure being also adjusted downward; but do not say you think it might have been “only” 5.9 million, because in Germany or France, you’re headed for trial if you say that), but also that the west and the Soviets engaged in war propaganda, post-war justification, and some exaggeration.
Also, there are other topics that you simply can’t talk about without fear of prosecution in Europe. Europe very much has blasphemy laws.
However, speaking of talking about Islam, Charlie Hebdo itself was investigated by the French government for this.
And if that’s not enough, Charlie Hebdo published a political cartoon calling for right-wing parties to be banned.

Eugene WR Gallun
Reply to  ralfellis
January 11, 2015 12:00 am

Christoph Dollis
There was a Jewish cultural reference book published yearly. i can’t remember what the name of it was (this was some time back) and I happened to stumble across it while thumbing books in the library. Each year a new edition — a new big thick book. A long row of them on the library shelf.
I discovered this set of books some time after historians had reduced the number of Jews killed at one of the German concentration camp by a couple million.
In the older books the total number of Jewish deaths was given as six million. A few hundred thousand were shot outright where they lived and basically the rest shipped off to concentration camps as the story was told back then. All of this was claimed to be carefully documented.
The newer books dutifully reported the lower number of concentration camp deaths — but then upped by a couple million the number of Jews that were claimed to have never been shipped to concentration camps but were instead shot where they lived. In that way the six million figure was kept.
I have an odd sense of humor and I thought that was quite humorous.
By the way — i am 67 years old and the holocaust happened before I was born. Anyone younger than me who feels stressed by anything I said above needs to get a life. And anyone older than me? I hate to tell you this but the truth is you are not important anymore.
Eugene WR Gallun

Reply to  ralfellis
January 11, 2015 8:55 pm

“In the older books the total number of Jewish deaths was given as six million. A few hundred thousand were shot outright where they lived and basically the rest shipped off to concentration camps as the story was told back then. All of this was claimed to be carefully documented.
The newer books dutifully reported the lower number of concentration camp deaths — but then upped by a couple million the number of Jews that were claimed to have never been shipped to concentration camps but were instead shot where they lived. In that way the six million figure was kept.”

That’s what happened. But it’s against the law to discuss this openly in much of Germany if you happen to think the actual number of Jews killed might be less than 6,000,000.

Reply to  ralfellis
January 11, 2015 8:56 pm

*in much of Europe

January 10, 2015 5:58 pm

I have no dog in this fight, I detest all forms of religion.
However I detest hypocrisy even more.
Abu Hamza ‘radical cleric’ was only this week imprisoned for life for ‘Preaching Hatred’.
Anyone who even glances at the cartoons of Mohammed on the front cover of Charlie Hedbo can see instantly that they were designed to offend and provoke. In other words they were a form of ‘hate’ speech.
We (by that I mean rational, peaceful people) will never triumph until we take an even handed approach to this issue. Freedom of speech is a great privilege but also a great asset. When it is denied to one sector of society but not another you can only expect tragedy.

Reply to  Charles Nelson
January 10, 2015 6:04 pm

So I am not allowed to do a painting of Mohammed??? There are paintings of all the other religious leaders. What’s going on???

Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 10, 2015 7:00 pm

Try and figure it out J. Philip.

Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 10, 2015 8:31 pm

icons are not allowed

Jari
January 10, 2015 6:21 pm

I really wish this blog would stay away from these issues. There are enough forums for this stuff elsewhere. What happened in my present home country is truly sad. But please, let this place be for science etc.

Reply to  Jari
January 10, 2015 8:36 pm

Jari, I am new here, but respectfully I disagree. I have a PhD and historically that is a doctor of philosophy irrespective of my discipline. That is there were ethics required. For us it is an ethics of scientific process and inquiry, replication of results, that awful transparency word thing too, but true and it is healing to me to learn that my friends here are ethical. It helps me accept their findings.

Jimbo
Reply to  Jari
January 11, 2015 9:14 am

Sorry Jari but this topic is ABSOLUTELY RELEVANT for sceptics. Media outlets won’t invite sceptics. Some have called for the death penalty. A video was produced by 10:10 showing kids of sceptics being blown up in blood and gore. If Charlie should be allowed free speech, why can’t sceptics?
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/03/03/the-silence-of-the-anti-defamation-league-suggests-they-endorse-defamation-of-climate-skeptics/#comment-1581627

Rick K
January 10, 2015 6:23 pm

Very good, Josh. You nailed it.

Khwarizmi
January 10, 2015 6:25 pm

David Hoffer:
“first they came for the cartoonists”
================
When a Mossad agent assassinated a Palestinian cartoonist in London, did you complain?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naji_al-Ali
When Charlie Hebdo–an unpopular, floundering propaganda outlet–fired a cartoonist for the crime of criticizing your tribe and its culture, did you complain?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/4351672/French-cartoonist-Sine-on-trial-on-charges-of-anti-Semitism-over-Sarkozy-jibe.html
We hung Julius Streicher for his hate-fueled propaganda, and we’re still proud of it.
Double standards: don’t leave home without them.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/freedomofspeechvsantisemitism.jpg

Reply to  Khwarizmi
January 10, 2015 6:40 pm

Now this is a great political cartoon.

Mike McMillan
Reply to  Khwarizmi
January 10, 2015 6:53 pm

Your English is very good, but Julius Streicher was hanged, not hung.

mebbe
Reply to  Mike McMillan
January 10, 2015 8:01 pm

Yup, Mike, we call it English but you, as a McMillan, should appreciate that for every UK English-speaker there are five or six North American anglophones. Just as Brits came to prefer ‘hanged’ to ‘gehängt’, we, over here rather like ‘hung’.

Mr Green Genes
Reply to  Mike McMillan
January 11, 2015 2:37 am

They could both be true …

Crispin in Waterloo but really in Ulaanbaatar
Reply to  Mike McMillan
January 11, 2015 3:06 am

For all we know he was well hung…

davidmhoffer
Reply to  Khwarizmi
January 10, 2015 7:05 pm

The links you provide falsify the claims you make. Given your past record of misinformation and outright hatred, no further response to you is warranted.

Khwarizmi
Reply to  davidmhoffer
January 10, 2015 7:45 pm

Actually, David, it was you who recently tried to whitewash the Isreali attack on the U.S.S Liberty as being one of those tragic accidents that clumsy little innocent Israel is always making.
But the Israeli recording of the incident was released by Al Jazeera recently, with the Hebrew dialogue between the military command and the naval crew proving that they all knew with 100% certainty (as anyone with eyes who can see a U.S. flag would understand) that the ship they were about to attack with napalm, bullets and torpedoes was American, not Egyptian.
(youtube: Special Series – The Day Israel Attacked America, at 10 minutes 20 seconds – see for yourself if you dare)
You probably knew that you were defending a myth at the time, because (i) the official story didn’t add up, (ii) it conflicted with every witness report (except Israeli ones), and (iii) you are not stupid.
And you didn’t quote anything from my links that disproved my claims – because you can’t.
I rest my case.

u.k.(us)
Reply to  Khwarizmi
January 10, 2015 8:52 pm

Do you even realize how far off base you are with your race/religious baiting comments ?
At this site you can’t even get anyone to agree on the time of day.

Michael 2
Reply to  Khwarizmi
January 12, 2015 12:14 pm

Khwarizmi says “When a Mossad agent assassinated a Palestinian cartoonist in London, did you complain?”
I have no memory of complaining about any cartoonist or their assassins. I tend not to patronize publications whose cartoons offend me. Such things exist in large number and complaining seems somewhat futile especially where offense is deliberate. Complaining in that circumstance merely verifies the effectiveness of the intended offense.
When Charlie Hebdo fired a cartoonist for the crime of criticizing your tribe and its culture, did you complain?
Faulty assertion. I have no information that Charlie Hebdo has any idea what is my tribe and culture; but since I am not a patron of Charlie Hebdo, I wouldn’t know it if they had. Others, however, have insulted my tribe and culture and I don’t worry about it much other than to be aware of the possibility that someone might assume permission for violence from mere insult.

Jari
January 10, 2015 6:31 pm

Anthony, do you really want “The world’s most viewed site on global warming and climate change” to start to get in to this? I personally have vented my anger against these pathetic people in so many places already, marched against terrorism yesterday, I really do see any reason to do it here.

Reply to  Jari
January 10, 2015 6:40 pm

Freedom of speech has a lot to do with climate change/global warming speech. It hasn’t come to shootings, but look at the 10:10 videos…

Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 10, 2015 6:44 pm

Come to think of it, do/did they have the right to produce those 10:10 videos under the freedom of speech right??

u.k.(us)
Reply to  Jari
January 10, 2015 6:58 pm

So, you’ve done your part and nothing more needs to be disseminated ?
Or shouldn’t be.

Jari
January 10, 2015 6:33 pm

In my anger, I was not clear, I do NOT see any reason to do it here.

Reply to  Jari
January 10, 2015 8:42 pm

If you are still around, please see my response above to what our post hole digger degrees meant originally regarding ethics.

Jaakko Kateenkorva
Reply to  Jari
January 11, 2015 6:20 am

How about a deep breath, Jari? Then take a sip of Sinebrychoff. That outta help.

Reply to  Jari
January 11, 2015 6:47 am

@ Jari: January 10, 2015 at 6:33 pm

In my anger, I was not clear, I do NOT see any reason to do it here.

If or when “off subject” commentary discredits ….. and/or confirms …. “on subject” commentary …… then it should not only be permitted ….. but should also be welcomed with open arms and an open mind.
To resolve the “truth” about subjects being discussed, the reason that a “cause” happened is oftentimes more important than the “cause” itself.
The outgassing of CO2 is the “cause” of the increase in atmospheric CO2 ppm ….. but human activities is NOT the REASON for that “cause”.
In my numerous internet discussions I have found that most all partisan CAGW believers literally detest any and all “off subject” commentary that discredits and/or disproves the “cause” of their “on subject” beliefs.

Robert B
January 10, 2015 6:35 pm

Free speech is like the freedom to dress how you like. I sometimes feel like I would prefer to be confronted by the police than to put up with sneers on the street for my dress sense and hence, the latter is a more effective way of keeping clothing retailers in the black (I’ve also been ridiculed for wearing shoes a few years out of fashion by a homosexual sitting nearby at a cafe. The irony was not lost on his friend who told him to give it a rest).
The similarities with the Charlie Hebdo atrocity is the way some women interpret the freedom to wear what you like. Its as if society legitimises rape if a women is expected to look after her own safety to a large degree. Its not legitimising terrorist activity to ask for magazines to not offend people for a cheap laugh.
Use your right to free speech for when you have to speak up. Put yourself in the sights of a terrorist when something needs to be said and then you’re on par with a sceptic.

January 10, 2015 6:37 pm

We Are Now Only Months Away From A Totalitarian One World Government in Paris | Lord Christopher Monckton
http://kingworldnews.com/now-months-away-totalitarian-one-world-government/
http://kingworldnews.com/lord-christopher-monckton-broadcast-interview-available-now/
It’s a race alright, but the bankers are out front by a couple strides.
http://sputniknews.com/radio_burning_point/20141222/1016121882.html

Alan Robertson
Reply to  uıʇɹɐɯ pɹɐʍpE
January 10, 2015 7:13 pm

comment image

Janice Moore
Reply to  uıʇɹɐɯ pɹɐʍpE
January 10, 2015 7:44 pm

Dear Edward Martin (upside down — wish I knew how…),
Still praying for your cousin’s family. Such a hard time.
Take care,
Janice

Janice Moore
Reply to  Janice Moore
January 10, 2015 7:46 pm

P.S. Thank you for the very kind compliment on 12/31.

Jari
January 10, 2015 6:43 pm

Anthony, kill this post/thread immediately. Now you get postings about people who have” been ridiculed for wearing shoes a few years out of fashion by a homosexual sitting nearby at a cafe.” This stuff is not for a science blog.

Reply to  Jari
January 10, 2015 6:48 pm

This “science stuff” has turned into “political stuff” – not because of WUWT…

Robert B
Reply to  Jari
January 10, 2015 6:55 pm

“Use your right to free speech for when you have to speak up. Put yourself in the sights of a terrorist when something needs to be said and then you’re on par with a sceptic.” was the point of the anecdote. Freedom of speech is not about the right to harass people.

u.k.(us)
Reply to  Jari
January 10, 2015 7:01 pm

Project much ?
(sorry couldn’t resist).

Alan Robertson
Reply to  Jari
January 10, 2015 7:03 pm

Thanks Jari,
Here is a thread which is concerned with the suppression of free speech in the world and how the agents of oppression make themselves known to all of us in many ways and sure enough, you show up arguing that our speech here should be immediately suppressed.
Someone (many of us?) must have really touched a nerve with you. That’s ok, if you’re getting mad about it, then that’s the signal for you that maybe a little self- examination of your own thinking is in order.

mebbe
Reply to  Jari
January 10, 2015 7:26 pm

Jeepers, Jari, take a pill.
Tomorrow, this thread is history and you can get right back to discussing sulfurous aerosols instead of salafist a$$holes.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Jari
January 10, 2015 7:36 pm

Lol, Major Frank Jari Burns, don’t worry, the fine doctors and warriors for truth can get the job of fighting the battle for truth in science done…. and discuss politics at the same time…. and ethics….. and…. even have a little fun, too…
Now. Go grab a cola, sit, down and relax….. .
That’s an order!
heh

If you think An-thony’s blog is exclusively about science, you haven’t been around here very long.
You are angry, but, we are still glad you’re here! #(:))
Ah, … ah,….. aaah, Burns, you’re starting to smile….

u.k.(us)
Reply to  Janice Moore
January 10, 2015 8:06 pm

People are dying everyday over this crap, beheadings, machete attacks, bombings, a whole school of children massacred.
They are not playing.
Make no mistake.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Janice Moore
January 10, 2015 8:10 pm

Dear U.K. — You will see that I agree with you if you read my comments above.
My Major Frank Jari Burns comment was directed at one person: Jari. It was directed at one thing: HIM and his throwing a fit over the subject matter of this thread.

Michael 2
Reply to  Jari
January 12, 2015 12:21 pm

Jari says “This stuff is not for a science blog.”
WUWT isn’t exactly a science blog. It is a people blog, primarily toning down the alarmism of global warming but neither denying that it exists. The science of global warming continues to be studied; what fuels this blog are political debates and it seems appropriate to me to include parallel phenomenon; any way in which one human tries to compel another to his way of thinking and acting; usually with intention of gaining power or prestige in the process.

Mike McMillan
January 10, 2015 6:48 pm

I’m sure all the climate bigwigs are really looking forward to the U.N. Conference of Parties in Paris next November.

January 10, 2015 7:10 pm

A strong personal preference is to separate science from politics (admittedly really hard in climate change). But to mix in pure religion seems a bridge to far. Even if radical Islam and the Green Blob (aka warmunists) both try to supress free speech no different than Communists, and for the same reasons. Deal with warmunist ‘science is settled’, ‘deniers’, newly ‘delayers’ on its own terms. No need to mix in religious nutters wanting a return to the middle ages….
Ooops, they are the same after all!! Great cartoon, Josh.

Alx
January 10, 2015 7:29 pm

There is no such thing as free speech, there is only what is politically, socially, culturally or historically acceptable. Everyone has a right to be offended, no one has the right to use violence because they are offended.
The Middle East is an extremely violent place and a place where the west goes to practice violence. Not sure why when a relatively tiny part of this violence leaks back to the west the west is offended.

Michael 2
Reply to  Alx
January 12, 2015 12:27 pm

“Not sure why when a relatively tiny part of this violence leaks back to the west the west is offended.”
Perhaps some people just don’t like being dead?

MichaelS
January 10, 2015 8:28 pm

Well, that escalated quickly.

u.k.(us)
Reply to  MichaelS
January 10, 2015 9:20 pm

Gotta watch for that, always.

Zeke
January 10, 2015 9:14 pm

So I see Josh gets slings and arrows for his cartoon. (:
Following the links is always a good idea.

“This behaviour is familiar. I certainly can’t forget Lord Deben’s complaints about my being allowed airtime on the BBC. It’s pervasive in academia too. We read that nearly one in four social scientists would not recruit someone of conservative views to their department. We have people like Bob Ward trying to ensure “consequences” for those who disagree with him on a daily basis.
So at a time when we are all reeling in horror from violent attacks against free speech and attempts to stifle the free exchange of ideas, it’s worth noting that there are plenty of other people blocking the door to the marketplace of ideas. Their use of less violent methods does not excuse them.”

BTW, I am definitely not Charlie. I object to female mutilation, polygamy, Shari- courts, madrasas funded by taxes, guns owned by musli-s who attend mosq-es in countries where the citizens do not own arms, and I want ALAC resolutions to pass in every state. I do not need a picture of a pineapple with the name of Mo underneath it, because I would rather have equality before the law, and because I might get an opportunity to share the truth of the gospel with a mus-im. So no, not Charlie. The only question is, where did the murderers get their guns in France?

Zeke
Reply to  Zeke
January 10, 2015 10:42 pm

A bit of old business. Was Chancellor Angela Merkel correct in 2010 – are there more mosq0es in Germany than churches?
“Our country is going to carry on changing, and integration is also a task for the society taking up the task of dealing with immigrants,” Ms. Merkel told the daily newspaper. “For years we’ve been deceiving ourselves about this. Mosques, for example, are going to be a more prominent part of our cities than they were before.”

SAMURAI
January 10, 2015 9:44 pm

The longer CAGW projections exceed observations, the higher the probability CAGW is about Leftistist political agendas and not about science.
The moment leftists said, “the CAGW debate is over”, it became evident CAGW was not about the free and open exchange of ideas and adherence to the scientific method, but rather about political agendas.
If you like your Leftist ideology of government control, you can keep it. Period! (TM).
In the CAGW “debate”, leftists are free to “debate” among themselves whether ECS falls between 3C and 12C, but as soon as anyone suggests ECS may well be closer to 0.5C~2C, that person becomes a “climate terrorist” that should be brought enchained to the The Hague and charged with “crimes against humanity”…. It’s become insane….
People are getting sick and tired of it.
BTW, a few days ago a saw something very interesting. I read pro-CAGW article on Yahoo News and found that every single one of the 136 comments written on the article ridiculed CAGW…
I appreciate that ridicule doesn’t really have a place in pure science, but CAGW is no longer about science and is deserving of ridicule…

January 10, 2015 10:46 pm

Bubba Cow
January 10, 2015 at 11:56 am
Politics hijacked science? Just say “endocannabinoid” to any group on the right and watch the name calling and screaming begin.
It is not a party thing. It is human nature.

Michael 2
Reply to  M Simon
January 12, 2015 12:33 pm

M Simon “Just say endocannabinoid to any group on the right and watch the name calling and screaming begin.”
While I haven’t actually tried this, I’m pretty sure the response would be “what?” and visions of aliens from Star Trek. Dangerous cannabinoids running around eating people.
Screaming and name calling are childish, emotional responses more properly found among leftists. You can see it daily on Huffington Post; not so much right here.

richardscourtney
January 10, 2015 10:56 pm

Friends:
I write to disagree with those who are objecting to the existence of this thread.
I express solidarity with and support for all Muslims, Jews, feminists, religious believers, political believers, and etc. who suffer violence and threats of violence because of who and/or what they are.
WUWT exists to enable honest debate mostly about climate issues. At times like the present it is important that we express our respect for differences honestly expressed.
Richard

Reply to  richardscourtney
January 11, 2015 1:39 am

When we say we ‘respect’ others’ beliefs, we don’t really. It’s actually an acknowledgement, not ‘respect’. You can even hear it when someone says, “I respect your opinion, but…”. You would like to truly respect it, but it goes against your own belief (for which you may even have evidence, when they do not). When I hear ‘God is great’, it means absolutely nothing to me, as I am an atheist. So I don’t respect it – I cannot, as to me, it is simply nonsensical. I do, however, acknowledge their belief, and steer my argument accordingly. I don’t respect Christianity or Islam, or any of the myriad of other religious beliefs. To me, they have as much veracity as Santa Claus. And it’s precisely because of this conflict that we are talking about two crazies with guns walking into an office in Paris. The cartoonists couldn’t show respect to Mohammed, as they didn’t recognise the idea of such a thing.

richardscourtney
Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 11, 2015 5:32 am

The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
You being a bigot does NOT mean everybody is a bigot.
I repeat, I express solidarity with and support for all Muslims, Jews, feminists, religious believers, political believers, and etc. who suffer violence and threats of violence because of who and/or what they are.
And there are “crazies with guns walking into an office in Paris” precisely because there are bigots who say things like

I don’t respect Christianity or Islam, or any of the myriad of other religious beliefs. To me, they have as much veracity as Santa Claus.

People who respect the beliefs of others cannot be “crazies with guns”.
Richard

Tom in Florida
Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 11, 2015 6:33 am

Richard, do you realize your calling Ghost a bigot contradicts your statement of respect for others beliefs?

richardscourtney
Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 11, 2015 7:17 am

Tom in Florida
It doesn’t. Please explain how you think it does.
Bigotry is not a “belief”: it is a disrespect of the belief(s) of others.
Richard

Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 11, 2015 7:59 am

@richardscourtney: January 11, 2015 at 5:32 am

I repeat, I express solidarity with and support for all Muslims, Jews, feminists, religious believers, political believers, and etc. who suffer violence and threats of violence because of who and/or what they are.

Richard, do you not realize that your above statement will only serve to embolden those persons within the aforesaid groups who condone and/or are responsible for acts of violence and/or threats of violence against members of the other groups? Or members of their own group.
All of the aforesaid persons within said groups are …. “who and/or what they are” …. simply because their environment nurtured them to be who and/or what they are ….. and in most every case involving violence ….. it was either an act of violence or a threat of violence against their person that effected said nurturing.
The “nurture’ers” of said violence have to be singled out and re-nurtured, reformed or punished, otherwise you are just “spinning-your-wheels” with useless rhetoric.

Tom in Florida
Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 11, 2015 8:32 am

Richard,
Putting a label on someone because of your own beliefs is bigotry. You labeled Ghost a bigot but I do not see him as such. Do I accept his point of view? Maybe or maybe not. But should I disrespect him for it, no. He has earned no disrespect simply by saying what he says. It is similar to the differences on economics and politics between you and I. Would you label me a bigot because I do not believe that a government should forcibly take from one to give to another? Would you label me a bigot because it is my belief that anyone who does believe in the government doing so is wrong? BTW, I do not know GOBJK other than from his postings here.

Chris Schoneveld
Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 11, 2015 8:52 am

It is ironic that on the one hand Richard proclaims his respect for all the religions and on the other hand he supports the slogan “Je suis Charlie”. Charlie Hebdo was the exemplification of non-respect for the Islam (and other religions for that matter) to the point that they were accused of being Islamophobes. You can’t have it both ways, Richard.

richardscourtney
Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 11, 2015 9:51 am

Friends:
I hope nobody is offended that I provide this single answer to all the disputants of my comments.
Bigotry is a disrespect for the belief(s) of others. Somebody is openly declaring he is a bigot when he writes

When we say we ‘respect’ others’ beliefs, we don’t really. It’s actually an acknowledgement, not ‘respect’. You can even hear it when someone says, “I respect your opinion, but…”. You would like to truly respect it, but it goes against your own belief (for which you may even have evidence, when they do not).

Furthermore, that person is declaring that because HE is a bigot all others are also bigots because he says he is incapable of imagining that others do really respect others’ beliefs.
I accepted that he intended what he wrote and I still see no reason to dispute that he intended what he wrote. I did not “label” him: I accepted that he intended what he wrote and I used the dictionary definition of what he said of himself.
Openly opposing bigots is NOT supporting murderous extremists who use politics or religion as an excuse for their actions. It is a dangerous falsehood to claim that expressing support for people with other beliefs is supporting bigots, crazies and extremists.
And people who cannot recognise the difference between satire and disrespect are sad and dangerous: some of them committed murder in Paris, and one has claimed it is “ironic” that I do recognise the difference so I say Je suis Charlie.
I am saddened that these obvious truths are so easily forgotten by some. I remind of “First they came for … etc..”
Richard

mebbe
Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 11, 2015 10:59 am

Je suis The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley!
Je ne suis PAS richardscourtenay du tout, du tout!

Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 11, 2015 11:44 am

Richard, the trouble is, you chose the wrong word in your hastened disgust at my words. Were you more intelligent, then you might have thought it through first. A bigot is someone who dislikes others for their beliefs, and is intolerant of others’ views, it isn’t someone who shows a lack of respect. Respect is having regard for someone’s feelings about their beliefs – two entirely different things, Richard. Should I have respect for someone when they tell me that they see fairies at the bottom of their garden, Richard? No! Should I have respect for someone when they tell me that they see ghosts on a regular basis? No! Should I have respect for someone when they tell me that they and their cat were abducted by aliens, and both interferred with? No! Should I have respect for someone who tells me that they believe there is a man with a beard controlling everything, and that he sent his son down to us to turn over a table? No! I am mindful of what they say, but I will show such people no respect, Richard, as what they are saying is nonsense to me. I tolerate it (meaning I will listen – often without comment), but I don’t dislike them for their beliefs. Do you see now, Richard? I don’t respect Christianity, Islam, or any religion because I think it is puerile nonsense of the most absurd level, and those beliefs exist without any evidence whatsoever. So why should I pay it any reverence? I don’t dislike these believers, Richard (the crazies, I do), so I am not a bigot. I’m happy to give you an education any time. I like giving to the needy. You can call me anything you like, I won’t take offence. All I ask is that you use what intelligence you do have, and choose the correct word for anything you think I am (and I wouldn’t have been called it for the first time)!

mebbe
Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 11, 2015 1:01 pm

richardscourtenay says; “Openly opposing bigots is NOT supporting murderous extremists who use politics or religion as an excuse for their actions. It is a dangerous falsehood to claim that expressing support for people with other beliefs is supporting bigots, crazies and extremists.”
This is a bizarre disconnect that pops up all the time “…murderous extremists who use politics or religion as an excuse…”
It’s not an excuse. It’s their inspiration. What else makes them “extremist”?
It seems that people, seeing tolerance and compassion as virtues, assume that they, therefore, are unfalteringly tolerant and compassionate. This results in them being apologists for the most bigoted philosophies and condemning as bigots those that can tell the difference between Mein Kampf and the Four Noble Truths.
I’ve been a “climate denier” for 15 years, an “infidel” for always and I’m proud to qualify as a bigot in your book.

richardscourtney
Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 11, 2015 11:24 pm

Mebbe and The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley:
Mebbe, your implication that I support Mein Kampf is an obscene untruth. I suspect it may be an example of psychological projection.
TGOBJC, I did NOT “choose the wrong word” when refuting your bigotry that you have iterated. Please try to consider the meaning of your own words both for your own good and for the good of others.
I respect the views of you guys so much that I will campaign to enable you to say them, but I state that your views are wrong and dangerous.
Richard

Brandon Gates
Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 12, 2015 10:45 am

richardscourtney,

I respect the views of you guys so much that I will campaign to enable you to say them, but I state that your views are wrong and dangerous.

Here’s how I think it works. When you state someone’s views are wrong and dangerous, you do NOT respect their views. When you say that you will campaign to enable someone to say wrong and dangerous views you DO respect their person.
There is nothing wrong with disrespecting someone’s views. Doing the same for their person is another matter entirely. Know the difference.

Michael 2
Reply to  The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley
January 12, 2015 1:21 pm

The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley “When we say we ‘respect’ others’ beliefs, we don’t really.”
As soon as I see “we” I know I’m dealing with the left wing; either the sheep or the shepherd; usually both at the same time — a sheep that thinks he’s the shepherd (and a mind reader!).
“I am an atheist.”
Impossible. It is not a thing anyone can be, for it does not describe any property of a person.
I conclude that you are more properly an anti-theist; with well-defined beliefs about the nonexistence of the objects of other people’s beliefs. You wouldn’t spam a climate blog with your non-information except that it is your religion, your proselyting, to do exactly that.
“I don’t respect Christianity or Islam, or any of the myriad of other religious beliefs.”
Obviously. While that may be common, coming to a climate blog and announcing it is thankfully uncommon.
“To me, they have as much veracity as Santa Claus.”
Sometimes more, sometimes less. Saint Nicholas is described here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Nicholas

Malcolm Turner
January 11, 2015 1:11 am

Freedom of speech? Tell it to the BBC. This national broadcaster will not allow any commentary that is contrary to the main stream view on AGW. Even though we have more technical data and serious analysis on such organs as the Watts site showing responsibility and scientific method the BBC will not conscience any of its findings or those of people from the same persuasion to grace the air waves. Since when has any science been thought of as subversive in such a way since Galileo and his spat with the Vatican or any theory accepted at face value (the word ‘theory’ should provide a clue). Instead; the BBC uses denial and scoffs at the serious determination. It is in such antagonistic and unprincipled ways that freedom is denied. It is the BBC that is wearing the crank’s sandwich board, “The end is nigh”, while the serious investigation and hopefulness is blanked out. We have to come to the conclusion that people slip into hopelessness and extremism by way of manipulation of events by authority.
Once, when states were self-contained entities and communication was poor, lies may have been easy to maintain and facts censured. But today we are open to all manner of counter argument and new intuitions and insinuations. The populace is far more sophisticated and can operate in its own cause, while governments still seem to conform to the old controlling malaise. That, in the 21st century, governments dictate to their people and propagandise their prejudices is wasteful and archaic. We know that wide arrays of small computers have immense power and networks of massed arrays are used as a research tool on-line to great affect. It is about time countries used the powers of their people more purposefully and put the problem out there, for it is with the people that the answer lies.
Charlie Hebdo tells us so much about ourselves. Our proscriptions, amusement, freedoms and interactions are but extensions of that which our states allow. They pick their winners and losers and when their plans come to nothing it is the commoners that pay the bill. That the state of Europe has inflicted circumstances on its people and persists in failing policies long after their usefulness is at an end, is an aspect of the ancien regime that has been at the root of much of the troubles that Europe has been subjected too. In climate science we see states forming an opinion on scant information and forming forecasts which are ripe for disproving and yet, over time, becoming more obdurate in the cause and more intransigent along the way. Hubris has taken over from fact. States turn to antagonists, rotten apples in barrels and their canker infects organs of reason and ingenuity in a way reminiscent of Newton and his wasted years striving for gold from base metals. Our denial is not corrupt it is the true way. It is the insistence on procedure, publication and argument leading to discovery, not a system of archaic imaginings looking for signs that leans more towards astrology rather than reason.

Reply to  Malcolm Turner
January 11, 2015 8:14 am

Malcolm, I’m fairly new to this forum and so I’m sure I have missed a lot of the discussion. Be that as it may.
I am simply fascinated (and appalled) that some rag like BBC would have “views” and not allow other “views”. LA Times won’t print my stuff, but local will.
What I wonder about is – aren’t they in the news business? Wouldn’t it sell more papers to print our stuff especially if they think it is contrary to their readers views? What do they have to gain?