There’s been a fair amount of niggling in social media over my presence at the Mann talk at Bristol. I find it humorous that there seems to be almost as much interest in my presence there as the Mann talk itself. It all started with this tweet from Leo Hickman at the event:
You can see just how far separated the audience was from Dr. Mann, as I was seated in the front row in a seat reserved for me. You can also see the band of the hearing assistance headset I was wearing, graciously and at extra expense, provided by the Cabot Institute when I informed them of my disability. Kudos and my sincere thanks to them. Also, thanks to director Rich Pancost for his openness with me.
In a Tweet from Dr. Mann, taken from the balcony seating you can see just how isolated Dr. Mann was from the audience. The stage extended so far forward that you can’t even see the first row of people on the ground floor. You can also see the video production crewman and camera. Rich Pancost promises me the video of both the Cook and Mann talks will be made available.
Obviously from his tweet and photo of me from behind, Leo Hickman expected some “fireworks”. Perhaps though, he missed my tweet earlier on the day of the Mann talk:
For all attending the Michael Mann lecture tonight, remember that we are guests, there to listen and observe. Be respectful of the venue.
— Watts Up With That (@wattsupwiththat) September 23, 2014
The reason I sent that was that in my opinion, for climate skeptics, almost any public interaction with Dr. Mann would be a “no-win” situation. Given the track record of hostility that has been on display from Dr. Mann (and blowback from skeptics too), I felt that if tough questions were asked, we’d be vilified for “badgering” Dr. Mann or being “out of order” in a polite venue. Since Dr. Mann framed the venue as “Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars” I thought that taking the advice of WOPR in the movie “War Games” was likely the only winning move:
A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice game of chess?
One commenter, the pundit known as “Climate Nuremberg” had a response to my suggestion that would later prove to be prescient:
@wattsupwiththat I bet when hordes of deniers turn up and listen courteously, you'll be accused of sending us there for that exact purpose!
— Climate Nuremberg (@BradPKeyes) September 23, 2014
Indeed, and that’s what happened. Leo Hickman got a question in the thread he started from behind me from the known unknown known as “and then there’s physics”, who used to run a blog that had nothing but “Watt about…” in the titles. He changed to the new theme/name when he realized how stupid he looked.
Dr. Richard Betts (who I met for the first time at the extraordinary meeting prior to the Mann talk) also wondered why skeptics had been so quiet. I tried to locate that Tweet today, but it seems to have shuffled off the digital coil, perhaps one of the readers has saved it or can locate it. It said essentially:
Richard Betts provided it in comments, added for accuracy rather than my one from memory:
@cartoonsbyjosh @barryjwoods @leohickman @lucialiljegren @nmrqip But why no sceptic hands up? It's the quietest I've ever seen you guys 😉
— Richard Betts (@richardabetts) September 24, 2014
Dr. Mann himself responded to a question posed by GISS employee Chris Colose on Dr. Mann’s Facebook page, asking if there had been any “disruption” of his talk:
Note my response at the bottom, we’ll get back to that in a moment. First I want to address Dr. Mann’s “tinfoil hat” assertion.
My opinion is that the environment at the Mann talk contributed greatly to the lack of interaction from the other climate skeptics present. Though Barry Woods notes that he and “Katabasis” both had their hands up during the Q&A period. Even so, from my perspective, asking a question at the Mann talk was an exercise in futility, due to the choice of Q&A moderator, Dr. Stephan Lewandowsky. He is seen in these two photos below standing on the stage, watching for questions, and directing the microphone bearers:
Here, Dr. Lewandowsky directs a microphone bearer to a person in the balcony:
Here is one of the microphone bearers from the Cabot Institute going to one of the Lewandowsky selected persons:
Note the empty seats, despite Dr. Mann’s assertion of a “full capacity crowd”, it clearly was not. There were empty seats directly behind me also. As one might expect in a packed lecture, there were no people standing along the walls or near the doors, other than the security guards.
The Q&A session was short, about 5 questions, all softballs, and much shorter than the Cook lecture, where the majority of questions were in fact from climate skeptics. After the short Q&A, Dr. Mann was immediately whisked away to his book signing table, complete with a policeman standing guard. The line was rather short as I walked by and snapped this photo:
The Mann talk seemed much more tense to me with the addition of police.
While I had stated clearly in a tweet earlier that I was there to “listen and observe” imagine if I had tried to ask a question.
These thoughts went through my mind.
1. Lewandowsky knows me and knows where I’m sitting, would he even call on me if I raised my hand? Doubtful. At the Cook talk, I did not see Dr. Lewandowsky directing microphone bearers, and the majority of questions were in fact from climate skeptics. The Mann talk had an entirely different vibe, and seemed much more tense than the Cook talk as I describe here. Director of the Cabot Institute, Richard Pancost said in a tweet today that Lewandowsky was directing microphone bearers at the Cook talk too, but I sure didn’t see it.
2. If Lewandowsky did call on me, would he do so only for the purpose of spite, and do something like announce “here’s a question from Arch-denier Anthony Watts, whose ‘conspiracy ideation’ I’ve written about in my paper Recursive Fury.” I could only wonder, especially since I lodged a complaint that aided in getting that horrid, spiteful, and ethically irresponsible paper retracted.
3. Would Dr. Mann preface his response to my question with something similar, such as saying I’m funded by the ‘Koch machine’ to be there and harass him with questions, much like he did when I sent him a free Christmas Calendar on my own dime? This sort of worry is evidenced by Dr. Mann’s response to the discussion today on Twitter:
4. If Dr. Mann responded to my question with a question of his own (a typical tactic when inconvenient questions are asked) would I even be able to hear him correctly and respond? If I misheard him, would I accidentally make a fool of myself due to my hearing issue? The crowd would not know of my difficulty, and I’d be laughed at. Despite the hearing assistance device being graciously provided by the Cabot Institute, it had issues and would only work correctly if held away from my body due to the loop circuit having a fairly weak signal. I had email discussions with Cabot about this after the Cook talk, but there wasn’t much they could do. They tried though, and I give them props for doing so.
So, in effect, asking a question was very likely a no-win situation for me. I knew this going in, but with a Q&A moderator documented to be hostile toward skeptics (Lewandowsky) directing the Q&A session, it was even more of a losing proposition. I don’t think the director of the Cabot Institute, Richard Pancost realized how intimidating it was to have a person who had named and shamed climate skeptics in peer reviewed paper, only to have it retracted by complaints from climate skeptics, and then to have the journal defend the rights of climate skeptics as unwilling “human test subjects”.
I can imagine the reticence of many other climate skeptics present, seeing Lewandowsky up there on stage pointing, wondering if asking a question was worth the risk. As I said, the advice from WOPR “The only winning move is not to play.” seemed best.
But, as indicated by the responses of Dr. Mann and company, they weren’t happy with that either. We are damned if we do, damned if we don’t.
Now back to the other issue raised earlier. On Dr. Mann’s Facebook page, he lamented that I didn’t ask a question, so I asked permission to ask one of him then. However, it seems that Dr. Mann has BLOCKED my question from appearing to him and others, as I soon found out, nobody else could see it:
@wattsupwiththat Can't find it! Must be doing something wrong…
— John Dunton-Downer (@doubledee3) September 26, 2014
and…
@wattsupwiththat @tan123 @MarkSteynOnline All I can see on that link… pic.twitter.com/zp6oFs99mC
— Уинстън смифф (@AndyMeanie) September 27, 2014
My Facebook question was also made known in a Twitter post, and it has been over 24 hours and no response from Dr. Mann. I know that some climate skeptics wanted to ask why Dr. Mann chose to cherry pick surface temperature data only to 2005, with the suggestion that it might be so he could “hide the pause”. It is a valid question, especially since Dr. Mann had been called out on the tactic two years ago by Steve McIntyre when he saw the same slides at the 2012 AGU Fall Meeting. We also have a discussion about it at WUWT here.
Imagine if a climate skeptic did the same thing at a Cabot Institute lecture, they’d be vilified.
But clearly by his actions, Dr. Mann has shown that such questions are off the table. Dr. Mann doesn’t want honest questions, he only wants to play at denigration, as evidenced by his use of labels like “deniers”, “tin foil hats”, and “Koch machine”.
My mind was made up going in that I wasn’t going to engage. The humorous fixation on social media over my not asking a question at the lecture seems to be little more than a brouhaha of their own making. Wikipedia says:
Typically, a brouhaha is marked by controversy and fuss that can seem, afterwards, to have been pointless or irrational.
Indeed.
But it seems, the tide is turning against Dr. Mann, and the support for these sorts of unprofessional actions is waning, as Andrew Montford summed up:
As we waited in our seats for Michael Mann’s lecture at the Cabot Institute to begin, I was struck by the sight of the great man alone at the side of the stage. He stood there for several minutes, ignored by everyone, as the last of the audience appeared and the Cabot Institute people, Lewandowsky among them, scurried about making final arrangements. I couldn’t help but be reminded of Mark Steyn’s comments about climatologists’ stark failure to make any amici submissions to the DC court on Mann’s behalf. The other day I also heard a story about a room full of paleo people rolling their eyes and groaning at the mere mention of his name. Somehow the Cabot Institute’s abandonment of the honoured speaker at the side of the stage seemed to epitomise this growing isolation. Even the scientivists seemed to be abandoning him.
Probably the most valuable thing we can do, is simply to ignore Dr. Mann and his rants about climate skeptics being tinfoil hat wearers, Koch shills, or deniers. We are none of those.
But most important, and on full display now, is the fact that if Dr. Mann can’t even be bothered to update his slides with current global temperature data. In that failing, he has already become irrelevant to the climate debate.
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Stalin said – Keep your friends close, keep your enemies even closer.
Judging by the pics it is clear that Mann has no enemies.
😉
or friends, for that matter.
Maybe he thought there are skeptics with artillery in the audience.
I agree asking sceptical questions in the Q&A format is unlikely to be productive. There seems to be lots of talk of a proper debate, personally I wouldn’t even debate. My approach would be more like Columbo’s engineer cousin. They hold all the cards, more knowledge and data, they are the professionals working with climate science all day year after year so I know I would be totally out of my depth, they would have all the answers to sceptical questions, a debate could go either way and might depend more on the debating skills or speed of thought of those involved (being the professionals, they will likely have more practice at looking at the data etc and therefore greater speed of thought in this situation to defend or attack) and very likely this won’t allow us to get to the truth.
I don’t know they are wrong, for all I know they are right, but what they say doesn’t make sense to me, it might be because I misunderstand, or things I don’t know, so it’s more a question of digging by asking them questions, being on their side admitting I’m probably stupid, getting them to explain, explain to them why I am confused and seeing how they deal with my confusions. If they are wrong, in trying to explain it to this unintelligent person the penny may drop.
Best of luck. I have been vilified and mocked, censured and blocked, despite being the epitome of politeness on a state run blog, no less. You will find many here will happily answer your questions. Tells me all I need to know about who is telling the real story..
Precisely. “You will know them by their fruits”
Which side has to delete, censure, block, ridicule, manipulate and edit comments… but what is most damning is if you, with no ulterior motives, with genuine curiosity ask for something to be cleared up, and get major blowback. Then you try to make it clear you’re not trying to be argumentative, but genuinely want some clarification on a subject. Then *bam* you get banned. They deliberately over complicate the issue to obfuscate the glaring inconsistencies with their pet conjecture. They’ll use an experts knowledge of highly technical details to throw in spurious data and red herrings…then only an equally knowledgeable skeptic will have to come along to dispel the excess garbage and get down to the truly relevant issue. (They *hate* when that happens) So yes, thank God for sites like this.
I don’t get this, our side has all the chips and all the Aces but isn’t willing to play even one hand, and then we wonder why they think they are winning.
The problem is, we aren’t playing the same game, nor for the same goals. They’re playing Fizzbin, where aces count for whatever they say they do. Fortunately, our partner is reality, and it’s holding all the trumps, and has begun playing them.
The only rule to the game they are playing is “Win at at any cost.” The main rule we are playing by is “be fair and tell the truth.” When one plays Win at at any cost, then the winning move isn’t don’t play the winning move is destroy your enemy before he even know he is your enemy. That is how you win at Terminal Nuclear War. In other encounters Anthony has asked questions along the lines of “where do we agree?” That is how to play by the rule”be nice and tell the truth,” but it won’t win at Terminal Nuclear War. The only way to win with their rules is to at least understand that there is an enemy, and unlike Pogo it is them. The next step is destroy them at any cost.
You just can’t win that way. It is too easy to obfuscate and confuse the issues, and the media are on their side, and happy to explain to the public that the obfuscations and confusions are legitimate “science”.
The more we let the facts speak for themselves, without providing theater, the better off we will be. Theatrics is their forte, and you never should engage your enemy on ground of his choosing.
tomwtrevor
September 28, 2014 at 6:20 pm
“The only rule to the game they are playing is “Win at at any cost.” The main rule we are playing by is “be fair and tell the truth.” When one plays Win at at any cost, then the winning move isn’t don’t play the winning move is destroy your enemy before he even know he is your enemy. That is how you win at Terminal Nuclear War. ”
Well I thought it’s thermonuclear war; and somehow your idea about it doesn’t work if the enemy has nukes on submarines.
IMHO, asking questions of a person known to be dishonest is about as sensible as trying to empty the Pacific with a fork.
kudos to you for acting like an adult, which obviously infuriated the children in the room.
Anthony Watts did not need to ask a question. Mann didn’t present anything new. All the questions related to the lecture have been asked and thoroughly discussed on WUWT. Better than a question was the live presence and a first-person report of the lecture presented by Anthony on the most widely viewed climate blog in the world.
I like to think that just having AW, one of his most prominent critics, in the audience would have discomfited Mann more than he would ever admit. He might have been relieved that he didn’t get a question. This is of course speculation, but leads me to think suspect that just being Chief Sitting Bull was quite enough at that time. There will be other occasions to raise the flag and advance on the enemy.
But I have to admit that, had I been there, I’d have hoped for some fireworks.
/Mr Lynn
[snip -over the top -mod]
The man(n) calls you a dXXXXr. Until he withdraws such words there is no reason to ask him questions or debate with him.
The audience itself looks small and the most of them have made up their minds about where they stand on the issue of Mann’s contribution to science. However good your question, and however well received, the chances of many minds being changed were slim.
It seems you had this opportunity to talk with real scientists who still believe in CAGW. That this happened was a big event, and one that could bear fruit in future. If you had been confrontational you would have perhaps frightened them away. Mann would have been very upset to know that after his presentation you were having super with people who he thought were your enemies and his friends.
Jeez Anthony, why didn’t they just put up the mesh screens in front of the band that you get at Biker and Cowboy bars…..:-)
That ain’t no Hank Williams song!
Which one’s Lew and which ones Mikey…?
It seems like you did the thing with dignity, Anthony.
Seeing has Kim hasn’t yet commented on this thread, I’ll also have to post this:
“The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.” – Oscar Wilde.
Seems appropriate for this article and Mann’s current dilemma.
BTW: A well known quote for those not familiar with quotes.
Anthony’s question to Mister Mann was, according to my Super X-ray Guessing Powers, was:
“Which of the 52 explanations for the pause in global warming do you favour? Are you a Deep Ocean Heat guy? A No-Pause guy? A Bad Luck guy? … “
Anthony,
Kudos for being an adult. Mann and Lew probably wasted hours and lost a lot of sleep prepping for your potential questions. An FOIA for their related emails would be interesting…😄
I recently attended a local gun rights townhall and the pro-gun control staff had written questions on 3×5 cards that they handed out to their supporters. Some didn’t even try to memorize the questions but read them off the cards. The Moderator seemingly managed to give time to EVERY person with a card. He did take questions from the other side but the bias was obvious.
I just jumped over to Sou’s website to take a look, WOW…. You must have put something in her Cheerios a while back to get that level of an attack.
What is the point of asking a question that, no matter how on point the question is, it will receive a pointless answer.
Mann has had many opportunities to prove he is a honest person/scientist and he has NEVER taken advantage of the opportunity.
The best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour, especially when that past behaviour is repeated over and over again. There is no point is expecting something else.
Anthony,
I think you showed a very reasonably circumspect behavior in the University of Bristol lecture hall before, during and after the Mann lecture and Q&A. Well done. It is what I had hoped for.
I do not know what to make of Mann’s apparent solitude prior to his lecture. Who knows what was going on? He could quite naturally have wanted to gather his thoughts before his lecture and asked for solitude to do so. It could be no one wanted his company. It may also have been to encourage an impression to the audience that he was available to be approached before the lecture and he could have been looking for the possibility of unsolicited approach by a critic where security could make a show of chaperoning the critic and have some level of showy intervention to guard Mann. Or he just may have been too self-consciously insecure with the critics in the audience to mingle with the audience before the lecture. We will not know, I guess.
John
Not asking questions at a presentation/lecture is hardly surprising. What surprises me is how little outreach there seemed to have been. If I had been able to go, I’d have probably tried to print up informational pamphlets to hand out to the attendees. Michael Mann’s talking points are well known. It would have been easy to draw up simple responses to a number of them. I’d do that then hand them out at the door as people enter. Having done that, people listening to his lecture could look in the pamphlet as he hits those talking points and see the other side of the disputes.
There’s no way anyone could prevent that. They can’t stop people from disseminating pamphlets/pieces of paper to attendees. And if they did try? It’d be hilarious. Imagine the stories you could write if they asked you to leave/required you stop. Not only that, but I’m sure the attendees would wonder why you were being prevented, meaning they’d pay even more attention to however many you managed to hand out.
The only practical reason to ask a question at an event like this is outreach. You aren’t likely to get a useful answer. The best you can hope for is to get the audience to think. If they won’t let you try via asking questions, try a different way. There are many other ways to reach out to an audience.
An excellent tactic!
Yes, agreed. Excellent.
This is getting creepy. My posts are all being stuck onto the bottom of this thread even though my time stamps are earlier in the day than other commenters’.
Maybe they are saving the best for last?
Not asking a question was a mistake. You could have at very least just asked him what, at minimum, would have to happen to, in his opinion, falsify the notion that global average surface temperatures are rising.
He would never even have got a chance , the dog and pony show made sure only the ‘rigth questions ‘ where made . To given them credit they at least know how to work as snake oil salesman .
This IS a mystery!
Time for Nick Danger!
What’s all this brouhaha?
Mann comes across as an incredibly easy to dislike person, to put things as politely as possible (not that he deserves it, just trying to maintain a degree of civility, unlike Mann).
Seems to me that the WUWT contingent provided sufficient “negative” energy to foil Mann’s self-aggrandizing play for celebrity and adulation. Polite listening is a slap in the face to a media Wh0re who seeks constant approval.
Quiet listening is BETTER than “dambing by faint praise”.
Damn with faint praise, assent with civil leer,
And without sneering, teach the rest to sneer;
Willing to wound, and yet afraid to strike,
Just hint a fault, and hesitate dislike.
— “Epistle to Dr Arbuthnot” by Alexander Pope (1688–1744)[5]
Good Job. I hope he get more of it.
[snip noted, David Appell -mod]
To speak or not to speak. Part of the motive behind vilifying anyone who has a contrary opinion, by ad-hominem attacks, or use of derogatory stereotypes, is to silence criticism. And it does work. Mr. Mann indulges in this form of degenerate, superficial rhetoric, in essence because he knows he has lost the argument. Amusingly, on his Facebook page he calls James Delingpol a clown and then cries fowl about anyone making inflammatory or defamatory comment about climate scientists! Mr. Mann also refers to you, Anthony, and the other attendees to his lecture as a ‘crowd’. Mr. Mann, Mr. Mann, it’s an audience, not a crowd. They all wanted to be there to hear the lecture. A crowd is what you get at a railway station, they are just passing through; or is that truly Mr. Mann’s opinion of the people who attend his lectures, they are just passing through, he has no real engagement with them.
His slides were 9 years out of date?
That kind of says it all.
Michael “Hockey Stick” Mann,
Instead of lecturing nonsense, why don’t you debate Lindzen or Singer? Afraid? Do you deny your hockey stick was declared flawed by Wegman’s team of statisticians? Do you deny “Mike’s trick to hide the decline?” Shameful. How do you sleep at night? Face thicker than crocodile scales.