From the Apollo 8, forty five years ago: "God bless all of you, all of you on the good Earth"

Excellent analysis above about the actual location of the earth with respect to the Moon’s horizon: The “earth” is high above the horizon in every landing site, and …. and so can only be photographed from the moon’s surface if one deliberately gets down low on the ground and photographs “up” towards the zenith. In Anthony’s photo of the earth behind the US flag, that is the arrangement set up.
By the time of Apollo 8 … 11, … 17, not all astronauts were test pilots, combat veterans, and 1000-hour high speed pilots with multiple engineering and aeronautics degrees. But most were. The training and pre-flight rehearsal simply did not leave much time for “play” – and what “play” (unscripted) there was was immediately noticed every time by CapCOM in FL, by NASA fight in Houston, and by the other listeners in the backup crew and the next flight of astronauts who were on the radio.
When we “see” the moon or sun near the horizon here on earth, it is still very, very small (1/2 degree angle) and ONLY appears “large” BECAUSE it is so close to the horizon. The moon or sun from the earth can be covered by a “dot” smaller than tip of your finger. Up high, as at “noon” each day or at the peak of the moon’s traverse, the view simply is NOT “awe-inspiring” as you think it “should be” based on your assumption of what you think it should look like based sizes. Make sure “you” are the telling that 10000-hour well rehearsed, has-already-faced-death-and-lived-through-it combat veteran astronaut and test pilot what “awe-inspiring” actually is. I’m sure he will immediately agree with your definition, and will immediately look up at the earth (which by the way will be covered up by the shielded wrap behind and above the moonsuit’s helmet) and then go fall on his back under the lunar lander and take a picture of the earth framed against the lunar lander legs and pressurized capsule.
At the lunar landing points as pointed out above – it is physically impossible to ever have any view of the earth near the horizon – and impossible to get a fixed photo from those fixed camera without falling over and aiming up. That posture (falling on the surface) was feared (breaking things on the moonsuit, breaking eqpt attached to the moonsuit, scratching lenses and facemasks, and the simple difficulty of getting back up while wearing one: Even the moon rocks were picked up with a very, very expensive “grabber” to avoid bending over and getting unbalanced!
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bruce1337 says:
December 25, 2013 at 8:36 am (Edit)
Just for the record: Here’s another one who doesn’t buy the manned moon landings anymore. While there’s a mountain of inconsistencies to discuss, this is probably neither the time nor place to do it. Just this one teaser: 44 years of technological progress, and modern heavy lift vehicles still don’t come anywhere close to the Saturn V’s capabilities.

Come on!
No other engines have been paid for since that time: NASA was getting budget cuts immediately after Apollo 11 landed. The Space Shuttle is a 1968-1973 era design, and its engines – once fixed by weight, size, and position into the Shuttle structure and weight and center-of-gravity – CAN’T be greatly changed. Even if new technology was “really” desired by NASA (and not all of NASA is budget-fixated NASS-GISS goons and peons) it could not be built, tested and certified for manned flight, and installed without re-designing the Shuttle. No budget. The other challenges (Challenger itself for one and for many deaths!) focused attention on everything but engine development – and the Saturn engines themselves were bigger than what was needed for the missions that the Shuttle could not handle.
Rather, there is a consistent self-limit that NASA inherently set on itself that argued against more “real” engine development: The shuttle HAD to be used as-is because it could not be modified, it was too expensive to build new rockets and new rocket engines because money was needed for the shuttle, and the shuttle needed all of the cargo it could handle (and then some!) to pay for the cost over-runs and schedule delays of the shuttle, and people could design most “stuff” (Keyhole CIA/NSA satellites, the very-similar space telescope were about the biggest wanted), to fit the shuttle so NASA didn’t want other choices available so they needed want to compete against their own shuttle.
Bundling existing engines together worked for all: Russia, China, Euro space launcher from Guiana) and NASA’s Delta models, re-worked and improved Titan (an ex-ICBM that has been much-improved) and even the much-reimproved Atlas – what Glenn original rode up in was an immediate ancestor of what went up a few days ago!
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Another writer asked (challenged!) the earth’s photo’s – challenging the (lack of) “shock and awe” that the lunar landers “should have felt” by the earth’s continents going by. (The writer pointed out the frequent comments and much time spent looking at earth by Space Shuttle and close-in orbit astronauts, and the lack of comments by the lunar astronauts -0- using that difference to make the assumed point that the lunar astronauts were not actually on the moon.)
Again, look at the real world positions and relative motion: If anything, that they did NOT look at the earth’s rotation proves that they WERE either near the moon or were standing on it!
The earth is “fixed” in position above the moon’s horizon, and even if the astronaut were orbiting the moon, the earth not NOT rotate any faster than once per 24 hours. Right above the atmosphere in the Shuttle or or in near-earth orbit, the shuttle goes past every landmark and every coast and every continent every 90 minutes!
From the moon’s distance, to “see” changes in the continent positions, one needs to look THROUGH the dense near-continuous white blanket of the clouds, “see” accurately and completely a continent’s edge and outline, then 12 hours later, again look “through” those ever-changing clouds and haze and compare that same continental edge against the fuzzy black line of the earth’s twilight reference point.
And anything that blurry through that much haze with no other reference than a blurry black line that doesn’t move by a 1/4 degree of view in 12 hours ain’t very awe-inspiring – even to test pilots breathing air and working on new lunology that NOBODY will ever be able to see again right at their feet.
Now, compare an earth-bound astronaut: He or she sees a constantly changing landscape going by with views that change minute-by-minute that cover a space outside the window of not 1/4 degree but a full 80 percent of the view port!
After 38 hours of driving through Arizona and Nevada and New Mexico deserts with a never-changing image of the same dark blue-gray mountain silhouette always fixed outside on the horizon, do you remark every 10 minutes, “Look!! Look! There are mountains out there! i can see the mountains (again)!!” The same mountains that I saw the last 10 minutes I mentioned that I could see the mountains……. Or do you mention the things right outside the curb that do change? After the first 6 saguaro cactus pop up holding their arms high in that impossible-to-believe cartoon caricature image, do you mention the next 66,000 cactus …. or just the two that look different because they have 4 arms or three fingers?
With 80-70% of the earth’s surface covered by near-continuous cloud cover, to even make out a specific continental shape would be difficult.