We’ve had issues with Mr. Laden before, and being called on it hasn’t changed his bad behavior, hopefully he’ll learn something this time. This is a pretty simple black and white issue, so I’ll do it with bullet points.
- Yesterday, Mr. Laden claimed WUWT had sunk to a “new low” for daring to question the wind speeds of Typhoon Haiyan hyped in the media with ground measurements reported by the Philippine Meteorological Agency. Our position was the media poorly reported on the storm, made egregious errors that we documented, and that this led to inflated wind speed numbers given to the public, such as 235 kilometers per hour being reported as 235 miles per hour, to give an example.
- He further claimed that we were “disrespectful” for not immediately updating the death toll to the new estimate of 10,000, which was the result of a political meeting in the governor’s office. I said we’d stick with the last report of the Red Cross number of 1200 as I trust them because their mission has no agenda other than aid. The 10,000 estimate may be met, or even exceeded, and if so we’ll report it then. (Now at 1774 as of 1015AM 11/11) UPDATE: 11/12 7AM Philippine president Aquino says to CNN: Typhoon Haiyan deaths likely 2,000 to 2,500 — not 10,000
- He added in a comment:
Let me ask you this but you better answer quick because the ground is sliding from underneath you as I type this. How important is 1,200 vs. tens of thousands? If it turns out to be tens of thousands instead of 1,200 will you STFU forever? Please?
- He then proceeded to write a long winded blog post at “ScienceBlogs”, and launch a Twitter tirade, from the position that he had some sort of moral high ground. As one WUWT commenter put it: The leftie pose of “We care more about real people than you do” is on full display.
- Yet, despite that angry posturing from that self-imagined moral high ground, Mr. Laden never once offered to help the people of the Philippines as WUWT has with the links to the Philippine Red Cross in the side bar graphic and in blog post links. Other bloggers such as Bob Tisdale have followed my lead with links in postings. Even 350.org’s Bill McKibben has thanked WUWT for providing him this info as he was pushing the “Save the Children Organization”, which isn’t disaster equipped.
- I waited over 24 hours to see if Mr. Laden had a conscience, and if he would offer his blog to help the people of Philippines or was simply interested in his holier than thou tirade against WUWT. So far, he has not.
- I made a donation to the Philippine Red Cross.
I chose 5000 Philippine Pesos (PHP) from the menu, which works out to $118 USD as it allows Mr. Laden and others who may donate to easily match the contribution. The maximum value on the Red Cross donation page in the menu is 10,000 PHP, or about $230 USD.
Between his donation (assuming he makes one), his readers donations (assuming he pitches it to them), and my donation along with WUWT reader donations, that should add up to a significant and useful sum, but any amount people may choose is useful and appreciated. Feel free to note your donation in comments if you choose.
The challenge:
I challenge Mr. Laden to meet or exceed my donation, and to post a link and graphic on his blog to the donation page for the Philippine Red Cross, and encourage his readers to contribute.
He is welcome to use this graphic I created:
Give Generously
The link is: http://ushare.redcross.org.ph/
Be sure to select the campaign first in the menu pulldown to be Supertyphoon Yolanda (Haiyan), then select the monetary amount and the payment method.
I also encourage WUWT readers to donate if they feel so inclined. It will be interesting to see if any other blogs who have been critical of WUWT pitch in to help. I’m betting few will as it isn’t in their nature but would be happy to be proven wrong.
Full disclosure: My wife’s maternal side of family is from the Philippines, and we have learned that one of her relatives there has lost a home in the storm. We have no word on the others there at this time.
==============================================================
UPDATE: Laden’s claims in his tirade aren’t supported by actual science and data, he writes:
But Watts and Homewood don’t want storms to be important for the simple reason that the best models strongly suggest that there will be more storms … especially in the Pacific, where Haiyan struck, over coming decades because of the changes to climate that humans are carrying out and that Anthony Watts and Paul Homewood deny to be real.
This paper shows the reality from data – no trend:
Kubota, H. and Chan, J.C.L. 2009. Interdecadal variability of tropical cyclone landfall in the Philippines from 1902 to 2005. Geophysical Research Letters 36: 10.1029/2009GL038108.
“Despite global warming during the 20th century the number of tropical cyclones annually making landfall in the Philippines did not experience any net change. All variability was merely oscillatory activity around a mean trend of zero slope”
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“Some excellent strategic judo there. Laden pushed too hard and ended up flat on his back.”
Seems that’s happened before. I’m sure he’s comically infuriated right about now, filled to bursting with Mannian style rage. The gracious, smart, likeable thing to do would be to swallow his pride and jump on board. Which of course likely means he’ll do exactly the opposite.
+1 for Anthony
I appreciate WUWT exposing this too. Worlds maximum wind speed measurement was on Mt Washington observatory, NH in 1934 at 231 mph and hasn’t been exceeded since. Years ago I knew that.
http://www.mountwashington.org/about/visitor/recordwind.php
This reads less like a challenge and more like an admission that you were wrong, wrong, wrong about the severity of the storm.
–bks
Anthony, I hope your relatives are OK.
Donation made.
Thanks, Anthony, for the donation prompt, without which I might have never have gotten round to doing anything.
Those who want to know how much to contribute in Philippine pesos (PHP) can easily find out from Google. For instance, if you want to send 100 US dollars, then type “100 USD in PHP” in the Google search box. (Use “GBP” for pounds sterling.)
What sort of person brags about their charitable donations?
@louise – what sort of person criticizes charitable donations while making none themselves?
“They are a good way to give.”
No Oxfam is not a good way to give. Oxfam is a leftist ONG political institution which mission is to indoctrinate trough giving. Which is btw what most “giving” organisations do.
bks – I disagree. “The storm was catastrophic and Filipinos desperately need our help.” “Maximum wind speeds were overstated by certain individuals in the MSM.” Both statements are correct. I think Anthony is trying to move past what has become a trivial discussion about the initial reporting, and try to perform some genuine good for the people who’ve been affected.
I’ve donated C$50 Anthony (I didn’t see a way to convert it to PHP on the Canadian site). My thoughts and prayers are with your wife’s extended family. BTW I still don’t see any mention about the relief effort on Laden’s site.
Mike Hebb says:
November 11, 2013 at 4:45 am
The record was broken during a typhoon in 1996 that hit an island off Australia. The event wasn’t recognized for years until it was discovered by people poking around that station’s data. I was the first person to tell Mt Washington that the new record had been accepted. I guess they haven’t worked up the energy to fix all the references to their record, which is still the record for direct surface measurements of non-tropical storms. The MWN press release is at http://www.mountwashington.org/news/release.php?id=49
Ah, my post on their forum is still there, http://www.mountwashington.org/forums/showthread.php?5789-WMO-lists-new-wind-gust-record-113-2-m-s-(253-mph-220-kt) . 2010 Jan 24.
Hmm, those parens may not get handled by WP, this link.
The leftie pose of “We care more about real people than you do” is on full display.
The truth is, the lefties do not care more about real people, they only care about how bossy and how idealistic they can be, they do not give a tinkers cuss about real people!
dbstealey said (November 11, 2013 at 3:17): “Oxfam is a UN agency, and thus they are completely opaque”.
Thanks for the heads-up – but thankfully my donation was made to Oxfam (GB) which, while affiliated to the UN body, is subject to UK law including the requirement to file annual accounts and reports. You can see details of its UK registration and filings at the following link:
http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/search-for-a-charity/?txt=202918
And UK taxpayers can use gift aid to add 25% to donations to this particular charity …
Mike Hebb says:
November 11, 2013 at 4:45 am
Oh rats. A new record was recognized in 2010, my reply with details and a link is stuck in moderation. It’ll show up sooner or later.
My concern is that those who consider AGW to be true seem to be willing to do lots about an uncertain future whilst doing nothing to help real people now.
This type of cant was on full display over the NSW bush fires. The watermelons were deriding Tony Abbott and trying to make out that it was all his fault for wanting to wind back the Carbon tax, whilst sitting on their backsides drinking their soy macchiatos. Meanwhile Tony who is a volunteer fiery was in the field supporting the heroic fire fighters.
I don’t think that anybody could fail to be moved by the scenes from the Phillipines, but the suggestion that this problem could be solved simply by introducing emissions control is pure rubbish and utterly wicked.
The whole situation is getting worse with people like this. The May 31 F5 Tornado, later downgraded to an F3 is classic. Grab the headline, and then assume the debunking will not be heard.
This was a strong cat 4 at landfall according to the people observing it. But which is more extreme as far as making statements about where nature is going and why: This storm, sticking out like a soar thumb in a global season well below normal, or 3 Cat 4s in 4 years hitting the relatively tiny island of Hispaniola ( Flora 1963,Cleo 1964, Inez 1966) 8 Major hurricanes up the east coast in 7 years, 1954-1960? Which is the more extreme, unusual event, 8 years without a major saffir simpson hit on the US, or a super typhoon hitting the Philippines. Since the former has never occurred before, the latter quite a few times, how is a sane mans thinking become an example of AGW driven catastrophe’s.
I am becoming convinced that these people care not about actual facts, but their dreams of control, having taken the controls of the people pushing the AGW issue. It gets worse with every example, total lack of knowledge of the past, or if they do know it, the willingness to simply lie about it relative to events of today, part of which stand out because of what has been relatively speaking a very tranquil period in overall climate madness. all of which has always been driven by natural causes and by some mystery now has a different source
Unless delusional or ignorant of the facts, how do they live with themselves
Save the Children has a long history of helping people affected by disasters. I was working with them (as an advisor) when they responded to a large cyclone in Bangladesh in the 90s, for example.
See their emergency response page: http://www.savethechildren.org/site/c.8rKLIXMGIpI4E/b.6151613/k.C6C4/Emergency_Response.htm
Disclosure: I do not work for Save the Children but have worked alongside them for over 20 years.
At the end of the day, the absolute quantum of the storm size is irrelevant. Any cyclone that crosses into the cat 3 SS equivalent in size is going to cause serious damage. Wind speed measurements, like temperatures, are local and focal, and may or may not represent the overall broader geographic impact. Sandy being the most recent case in point. As has been mentioned, there are many more important determiners of impact. From a disaster response perspective, we already have more than enough experiential data to understand what is needed to mitigate and respond to such a tragedy.
Rather, we obfusticate over where the actuarial break line of risk acceptance is. First responders, be it the Red Cross, or a multitude of agencies, must be pragmatic and triage the event. The capacity to do so, along with local preparedness, is what determines the impact. This is the roll of the dice of life. Begrudgingly, because both people and governments have very short attention spans to preparedness, we know (I am a trained and experienced Red Cross first-in disaster responder), that there will be horrific casualties in such events. We also know that arguing the point saves no lives. That happens by people who do rather than talk, and do quickly, sometimes dispassionately but with great angst, to be dealt with when the initial event is contained.
While I very much appreciate Anthony’s somewhat emotional challenge to the sociopaths of this planet, the essential thing now is to go, do. Money, physical ability, support for those who can go, do. Go. Do.
Discussions of the storm itself will yield little resolution to the present impact, Without the will to mitigate the outcome of the next and the next, it’s just idle chatter.
I think one part of this overlooked by the media in their effort to grab headlines is the historical results of strong storms hitting the Philippines. They do take them seriously yet every major storm kills between 300-800 people. The farther back in time you go the higher the death toll, which is worse yet similar situation for other countries affected by Tropical Cyclones. Money spent on carbon crap schemes would be better spent on shelter design and construction, because that is what is needed.
Greg Laden’s post about Cat 6 storms has been picked up by Peter Sinclair. Excuse me while I go bang my head into the wall. http://climatecrocks.com/2013/11/11/do-we-need-a-cat-6
The simple answer to Laden’s obsession with Cat 6 is to simply say to him, “for what purpose, bragging rights?” We already know that most places in the world can’t mitigate a Cat 3, let alone any higher number. Adding more numbers is like trying to quantify the amount of time it takes to bend over and kiss you butt goodbye…
Done!
You took my advice (to put his money where his mouth is)! That makes me so happy.
One really vile thing I saw on his blog was the encouragement to come here and post nutty anti-science rants to try to discredit Anthony. I can’t imagine anyone, ANYONE on this blog tolerating a suggestion to do that on his blog.
The left always likes to claim the moral high ground, I guess they are so accustomed to such nasty under-handed behavior that they don’t even think about it anymore.
Thank you, Anthony. My Dad served in the Philippines in ’46. He loved the country.
A general word of caution about charities, particularly those that “pop up” in the wake of a disaster.
Check them out to be sure that their business is the cause they espouse and that they are not primarily in the business of being a “charity”.
Sites like this can help. http://www.bbb.org/charity-reviews/national/
Where did Mr Laden go, anyhow?
I arrived on Guam shortly after Super Typhoon Paka hit the place. One of the things we had to do during the recovery was replace all the anemometers on all the weather stations on the island. The maximum wind speeds weren’t actually recorded during that storm as the instruments were blown off their mountings before reaching the peak. The engineers gave some estimates of the wind speeds, but no one could say what the actual speed was. These typhoons in the tropical Pacific are nothing to sneeze at. They have a lot of heat to work with and long straight lines with no mountains to slow them down. We had a lot of damage to clean up even though most of Guam’s buildings are made of concrete. I can’t imagine what a storm like that would do to a thrown together, plywood and sheet metal structure like the poorest areas of the PI have. I hope most of the people evacuated to higher ground and firmer structures, because the walls and roofs of those shanties would serve as lethal projectiles, turning their homes into hellish, murdering blenders.
I’ll do Mr. Laden one better. I’ll propose an entirely new scale with much finer resolution: The Desert-Ark Scale of severe storms. There are, naturally, 40 units to the scale, allowing splitters all kinds of room for meaningless number f*rting. So, Mr. Laden, in the DA scale, where would this storm fall between desert level impact and Ark level impact?