Since Paul Hudson has made a bold claim at the BBC related to a recent interview with solar scientist Mike Lockwood: BBC – Real risk of a Maunder minimum ‘Little Ice Age’, I thought it appropriate to share this recent communications that raises some of the same issues about the UV portion of the solar spectrum during this lull in solar activity, which has been in significant decline in the last decade.
Dr. Jan Zeman of Prague writes:
While discussing the recent article by Stan Robertson
(http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/10/10/the-sun-does-it-now-go-figure-out-how/)
at the WUWT I’ve stumbled upon this very interesting voluminous paper in
Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics:
Recent variability of the solar spectral irradiance and its impact on climate modelling
Ermolli et al, April 2013 See: http://www.atmos-chem-phys.net/13/3945/2013/acp-13-3945-2013.pdf
The paper discusses quite very surprising results from the SORCE spectral irradiance data, comparing it to other spectral data and models available, suggesting that spectral radiance variability throughout solar cycle could be considerably higher than thought until now,
especially in the UV regions.
[This has] significant implications for atmospheric chemistry and its modeling, while also suggesting that the spectral variability in some other important regions of the solar spectrum (visible and >1μm IR) is not in phase with solar cycle – which I think is potentially another huge elephant in the room for CAGW.
And although it is at all not focus of the article as I look into it and into the SORCE spectral data there could be perhaps implications not only for atmospheric physics, but for the total effective surface irradiation variability, with possible consequences especially for the
SST modulation – which was the subject of the Robertson’s article – and which in my opinion is burdened with multiple omissions, which for sake of feedback I’ll allow myself to name:
1. Failing to take into account the most trivial fact the ocean is
preferentially at lower than average latitudes (-here:
http://tumetuestumefaisdubien1.sweb.cz/GLOBAL-LAND-SEA-STRATIFICATION-1DEGresolution.xls
You can find the 1° resolution ocean/land stratification, which I compiled recently for my research using Google Earth Pro and -which can sometimes prove useful reality check for all the various insolation-ocean implications, using often blindly global averages, which for obvious reasons can’t apply to ocean without major correction)
2. Failing to take into account that ocean has considerably lower reflectivity than is the Earth surface average and therefore absorbs way over average solar irradiance than the Earth surface in average absorbs under same insolation. -which both very likely result in gross underestimation of the incoming solar irradiance (the 160W/m^2 figure) for ocean. (from my own calculations (using the above ocean geographic stratification, atmospheric spectral absorption and seawater optical properties numbers) comes out that the average effective ocean insolation is well over 200W/m^2 -even if all ocean under sea-ice and therefore receiving no significant insolation is fully included into the averaging).
3. On the other hand the 390W/m^2 ocean radiation is quite clearly overestimation at least for the explicitly stated 288 K surface temperature due to the fact seawater has lower emissivity than ε=1 (classical Trenberth budget fallacy) – which only would justify the
390W/m^2 figure and which would be already almost 4 W/m^2 lower even in quite still rather unlikely case the sea surface has ε=0.99 – which is usually the emissivity of standard laboratory blackbodies. Not speaking that higher evaporation and higher atmospheric temperature resulting from higher insolation inevitably causes more water in atmosphere, more latent heat released there, eve higher atmospheric temperature resulting in higher atmospheric radiation slowing heat radiative transfer from the surface.
4. Failing to take into account that ocean photic layer insolation has three dimensions in the highly transparent medium as seawater and that the spectral irradiance varies several orders of magnitude for different spectral bands and different depths of the ocean photic layer (here you can see graph of estimation I made using water transmittance data and
ASTM G173-03 spectrum recalculated for slightly different normal incidence angle:
…which results in very uneven heat content distribution and so the surplus irradiation caused by the solar cycle insolation variation very likely doesn’t produce so prominent temperature signal amplitude at the shallow depths where the SST is usually measured (at very least not in such phase with solar cycle variability to be easily quantifiable and comparable) and doesn’t reflect more than part of the actual heat content changes in the ocean photic layer caused by insolation variability.
5. Failing to take into account the fact that highest surface spectral solar irradiance variability in phase with solar cycle is in UVA – not given only by the solar spectrum variability itself but also by the asymetricity of the solar spectra absorbtion in the atmosphere for UVA and IR regions – even without any considering the SORCE surprising SSI data (-which also seem to show the variability in visible and >1μm IR regions is NOT in phase with solar cycle TSI variability – which in the >1μm IR region – not penetrating water deeper than ~10 centimeters (an usually much much less) would directly mean that the solar cycle IR variability cancels by its phase large part of the solar cycle signal in
the surface temperature data while the heat content throughout the photic layer anyway rises and descends with the solar cycle variability at the depths higher than is the depth of the layer heated by the solar IR.
In any case the 0.09 watt/m2 solar cycle variation amplitude figure looks to me rather like gross underestimation for ocean and all the omissions together cast serious doubts about the outcome of the Robertson’s analysis, especially its quantification in the resulting
“3.6” ratio.
The surprising finds from the SORCE SSI data by Ermoli et al. (I must say I’m also very surprised when looking into the SORCE SSI data) could be interesting maybe even for the WUWT readers. -Even the spectral irradiance is quite special topic, I have a feeling that if ever there will be a comprehensive linking between solar activity variability and surface temperatures, it will come from the side of the spectral irradiance variation – because it is what in different bands causes the different ocean surface layers be heated considerably differently due to very different water transmissivities for different wavelengths.
(- only what I found at WUWT about the Ermolli et al. paper is the very short note in the Oct 13 roundup linking to the Bosse&Vahrenholt article mentioning the paper – but unfortunately without mentioning the main focus of the article – UV variability and atmospheric chemistry – and rather seems to just point out quite cherrypicked figure “10%” variability – which one in fact finds in the SORCE SSI data actually at the edge of the MUV region – almost completely unsignificant for surface irradiation, and actually the variability upperbound for UV significantly reaching surface is lower at least by factor 5.
P.S.: In the attachment you find a picture you can have some fun with.
(I never thought it is so good laugh falsifying Lockwood & Frohlich 2007
“1987 claim” by one sole yellow OLS flat trendline – anyone can plot at WFT.)
============================================================
(Anthony) WUWT has covered this topic of UV solar spectral variation previously, see these articles:
UV low during recent solar minimum
SORCE’s Solar Spectral Surprise – UV declined, TSI constant
Note this graph:
Between 2004 and 2007, the SORCE Solar Irradiance Monitor (blue line) measured a decrease in ultraviolet radiation (less than 400 nanometers) that was a factor of four to six larger than expected (black line). In the visible part of the spectrum (400 to 700 nanometers), SIM showed a slight increase in comparison to what was expected. Measurements (red) from another ultraviolet radiation-sensing instrument called SOLSTICE compare well with those from SIM. Note: different scales are used for values at wavelengths less and more than 242 nanometers (see left and right axes respectively). Credit: Joanna Haigh/Imperial College LondonThis figure in the Ermolli et al paper suggest that UV has had the lions share of change from 2004-2008
For solar UV irradiance change to have an effect on Earth’s surface temperatures, you need a mechanism. One mechanism noted above is related to optical depth spectral sensitivity of the ocean, another might related and be biological. This paper from 2007 covers the same wavelengths discussed above:
Interactive effects of solar UV radiation and climate change on biogeochemical cycling
Zepp et al Photochem. Photobiol. Sci., 2007,6, 286-300
DOI: 10.1039/B700021A
Abstract: This report assesses research on the interactions of UV radiation (280–400 nm) and global climate change with global biogeochemical cycles at the Earth’s surface. The effects of UV-B (280–315 nm), which are dependent on the stratospheric ozone layer, on biogeochemical cycles are often linked to concurrent exposure to UV-A radiation (315–400 nm), which is influenced by global climate change. These interactions involving UV radiation (the combination of UV-B and UV-A) are central to the prediction and evaluation of future Earth environmental conditions. There is increasing evidence that elevated UV-B radiation has significant effects on the terrestrial biosphere with implications for the cycling of carbon, nitrogen and other elements. The cycling of carbon and inorganic nutrients such as nitrogen can be affected by UV-B-mediated changes in communities of soil organisms, probably due to the effects of UV-B radiation on plant root exudation and/or the chemistry of dead plant material falling to the soil. In arid environments direct photodegradation can play a major role in the decay of plant litter, and UV-B radiation is responsible for a significant part of this photodegradation. UV-B radiation strongly influences aquatic carbon, nitrogen, sulfur and metals cycling that affect a wide range of life processes. UV-B radiation changes the biological availability of dissolved organic matter to microorganisms, and accelerates its transformation into dissolved inorganic carbon and nitrogen, including carbon dioxide and ammonium. The coloured part of dissolved organic matter (CDOM) controls the penetration of UV radiation into water bodies, but CDOM is also photodegraded by solar UV radiation. Changes in CDOM influence the penetration of UV radiation into water bodies with major consequences for aquatic biogeochemical processes. Changes in aquatic primary productivity and decomposition due to climate-related changes in circulation and nutrient supply occur concurrently with exposure to increased UV-B radiation, and have synergistic effects on the penetration of light into aquatic ecosystems. Future changes in climate will enhance stratification of lakes and the ocean, which will intensify photodegradation of CDOM by UV radiation. The resultant increase in the transparency of water bodies may increase UV-B effects on aquatic biogeochemistry in the surface layer. Changing solar UV radiation and climate also interact to influence exchanges of trace gases, such as halocarbons (e.g., methyl bromide) which influence ozone depletion, and sulfur gases (e.g., dimethylsulfide) that oxidize to produce sulfate aerosols that cool the marine atmosphere. UV radiation affects the biological availability of iron, copper and other trace metals in aquatic environments thus potentially affecting metal toxicity and the growth of phytoplankton and other microorganisms that are involved in carbon and nitrogen cycling. Future changes in ecosystem distribution due to alterations in the physical and chemical climate interact with ozone-modulated changes in UV-B radiation. These interactions between the effects of climate change and UV-B radiation on biogeochemical cycles in terrestrial and aquatic systems may partially offset the beneficial effects of an ozone recovery.
Related articles
- New paper finds solar UV varies up to 100 percent during solar cycles, confirms solar amplification mechanism (tallbloke.wordpress.com)
- The Sun Does It: Now Go Figure Out How! (wattsupwiththat.com)
- Current Sunspot Cycle Weakest In 190 Years – Recent Model Temperature Deviation Due To Solar Activity, Experts Say (notrickszone.com)
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![OCEAN-PENETRATION-BY-SOLAR-SPECTRUM[1]](http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/ocean-penetration-by-solar-spectrum1.png?resize=640%2C405&quality=75)

mkelly: “The atmosphere does not heat the surface. It’s vice versa.”
I think it is a mix. An Arctic Air mass can cool off a region and a chinook can heat it up.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinook_wind
sunshinehours1 says:
October 28, 2013 at 11:40 am
And we don’t dispute the comparison, but their heat capacities(air and earth) are vastly different.
I have been forecasting global cooling based on quasi periodic quasi repetitive patterns and solar activity decline for several years now
See numerous posts at http://climatesense.norpag.blogspot.com
Here are the conclusions of the latest post
“I have combined the PDO, ,Millennial cycle and neutron trends to estimate the timing and extent of the coming cooling in both the Northern Hemisphere and Globally.
Here are the conclusions of those posts.
1/22/13 (NH)
1) The millennial peak is sharp – perhaps 18 years +/-. We have now had 16 years since 1997 with no net warming – and so might expect a sharp drop in a year or two – 2014/16 -with a net cooling by 2035 of about 0.35.Within that time frame however there could well be some exceptional years with NH temperatures +/- 0.25 degrees colder than that.
2) The cooling gradient might be fairly steep down to the Oort minimum equivalent which would occur about 2100. (about 1100 on Fig 5) ( Fig 3 here) with a total cooling in 2100 from the present estimated at about 1.2 +/-
3) From 2100 on through the Wolf and Sporer minima equivalents with intervening highs to the Maunder Minimum equivalent which could occur from about 2600 – 2700 a further net cooling of about 0.7 degrees could occur for a total drop of 1.9 +/- degrees
4)The time frame for the significant cooling in 2014 – 16 is strengthened by recent developments already seen in solar activity. With a time lag of about 12 years between the solar driver proxy and climate we should see the effects of the sharp drop in the Ap Index which took place in 2004/5 in 2016-17.
4/02/13 ( Global)
1 Significant temperature drop at about 2016-17
2 Possible unusual cold snap 2021-22
3 Built in cooling trend until at least 2024
4 Temperature Hadsst3 moving average anomaly 2035 – 0.15
5 Temperature Hadsst3 moving average anomaly 2100 – 0.5
6 General Conclusion – by 2100 all the 20th century temperature rise will have been reversed,
7 By 2650 earth could possibly be back to the depths of the little ice age.
8 The effect of increasing CO2 emissions will be minor but beneficial – they may slightly ameliorate the forecast cooling and help maintain crop yields .
9 Warning !! There are some signs in the Livingston and Penn Solar data that a sudden drop to the Maunder Minimum Little Ice Age temperatures could be imminent – with a much more rapid and economically disruptive cooling than that forecast above which may turn out to be a best case scenario.
How confident should one be in these above predictions? The pattern method doesn’t lend itself easily to statistical measures. However statistical calculations only provide an apparent rigor for the uninitiated and in relation to the IPCC climate models are entirely misleading because they make no allowance for the structural uncertainties in the model set up.This is where scientific judgment comes in – some people are better at pattern recognition and meaningful correlation than others. A past record of successful forecasting such as indicated above is a useful but not infallible measure. In this case I am reasonably sure – say 65/35 for about 20 years ahead. Beyond that certainty drops rapidly. I am sure, however, that it will prove closer to reality than anything put out by the IPCC, Met Office or the NASA group. In any case this is a Bayesian type forecast- in that it can easily be amended on an ongoing basis as the Temperature and Solar data accumulate. If there is not a 0.15 – 0.20. drop in Global SSTs by 2018 -20 I would need to re-evaluate.”
.
@Mr. Page
there are only a few like you and me…
http://blogs.24.com/henryp/2013/04/29/the-climate-is-changing/
So, would the 0-2000 meter ocean heat content increase being greater than the 0-700 meter ocean heat content increase be a fingerprint of solar caused warming?
It seems to me that without the invoking of convenient wind changes or other heat distributing mechanisms a increased GHE caused warming should increase the ocean heat content via a mechanism akin to insulation therefore from the top down. Whereas an increase in solar output proportion in the deeper penetrating visual and UV wavelengths would warm from some depth up & down.
“And we don’t dispute the comparison, but their heat capacities(air and earth) are vastly different.”
Sometimes not vastly, especially when you take into account the ability to transfer heat like when it is foggy or raining or for that matter really humid, or when the wind is blowing hard.
You know … things climate modelers and weather persons never get right.
Increased solar magnetic activity and larger sunspot groups will increase ultraviolet radiation intensity, which means; more UV from the sun will produce more chemical reactions in the atmosphere. And an increase in ultraviolet radiation reaching earth will also release more energy as heat, emitting more infrared radiation into space.
As solar magnetic activity has decreased and so has ultraviolet radiation, a scientist viewing less infrared radiation leaving the earth (as observed by satellites) may mistake this reduction in infrared radiation as a result of CO2 “trapping heat” or blocking more infrared radiation from escaping into space, when in-fact the “extra” infrared radiation was the result of the “extra” ultraviolet radiation.
Here’s two more quotes from
http://climatesense-norpag.blogspot.com
“How then can we predict the future of a constantly changing climate? A new forecasting paradigm is required .
It is important to note that it in order to make transparent and likely skillful forecasts it is not necessary to understand or quantify the interactions of the large number of interacting and quasi independent physical processes and variables which produce the state of the climate system as a whole as represented by the temperature metric.”
“Furthermore Fig 8 shows that the cosmic ray intensity time series derived from the 10Be data is the most useful proxy relating solar activity to temperature and climate. – see Fig 3 CD from Steinhilber
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/03/30/1118965109.full.pdf
NOTE !! the connection between solar “activity” and climate is poorly understood and highly controversial. Solar ” activity” encompasses changes in solar magnetic field strength, IMF, CRF, TSI ,EUV, solar wind density and velocity, CMEs, proton events etc. The idea of using the neutron count as a useful proxy for changing solar activity and temperature forecasting is agnostic as to the physical mechanisms involved.”
@ur momisugly Dr. Norman Page
Much appreciation for your work. My wife and I are seriously considering moving to south Florida, something we would consider in any case given our recent retirement.
Dr Norman Page says:
October 28, 2013 at 12:19 pm
The idea of using the neutron count as a useful proxy for changing solar activity and temperature forecasting is agnostic as to the physical mechanisms involved.
We have no neutron count data before 1952…
Leif look at the context I also say
“Furthermore Fig 8 shows that the cosmic ray intensity time series derived from the 10Be data is the most useful proxy relating solar activity to temperature and climate. – see Fig 3 CD from Steinhilber
http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2012/03/30/1118965109.full.pdf
The neutron count is useful for recent cycles and for future temps (using a possible 12 year lag a would e.g equate the 1991+/- count minimum with the 2003 +/- SST temp trend peak.)
ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/anomalies/annual.ocean.90S.90N.df_1901-2000mean.dat
sunshinehours1 says:
October 28, 2013 at 11:40 am
mkelly: “The atmosphere does not heat the surface. It’s vice versa.”
I think it is a mix. An Arctic Air mass can cool off a region and a chinook can heat it up.
Friction between air and surface is the heating mechanism for Chinook not TSI.
@Dale Rainwater Jan Zeman: Wonderful thing to see work being done on spectral components. Thanks for the post.
Dr Norman Page says:
October 28, 2013 at 12:39 pm
“Furthermore Fig 8 shows that the cosmic ray intensity time series derived from the 10Be data is the most useful proxy relating solar activity to temperature and climate.
There is good evidence that part of this is a circular argument, i.e. that the cosmic ray proxies are significantly contaminated by climate, e.g. http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1003/1003.4989.pdf and http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1004/1004.2675.pdf and are thus directly useful without serious caveats.
Leif again I say “The idea of using the neutron count as a useful proxy for changing solar activity and temperature forecasting is agnostic as to the physical mechanisms involved.”
In context I’m obviously including the 10 Be data in that statement. Why exactly it correlates with temperature I don’t claim to understand ,merely I say that it looks like a reasonable usable empirical correlation at the various temperature minima in the Steinhilber Figure referred to.
Could it be that the fact that they might be “contaminated” or say rather influenced by climate is in fact the reason for the correlation?? As far forecasting is concerned while it would be comforting to understand the mechanism it is not essential.
Dr Norman Page says:
October 28, 2013 at 1:12 pm
Leif again I say …
Keep saying the same thing does not make it right.
climate is in fact the reason for the correlation?? As far forecasting is concerned while it would be comforting to understand the mechanism it is not essential.
But if climate is the cause then the Sun is off the hook and the whole edifice falls down. As far as forecasting it makes a large difference because then you would be forecasting climate with climate.
I think you have finally twigged what I’m mainly doing – given that the temperature data is the chosen climate metric – in my case the SST’s – then the best method of forecasting is by looking at quasi periodic cycles in the temp data itself e.g. the 60 and 1000 year cycles figuring out where we are now and projecting them forwards.
As for the rest your just playing with words to be argumentative . Obviously the sun is the main driver and is responsible for the 10Be flux . Note the question marks in the comment I’m merely suggesting that the climate at the time affects 10Be deposition ( obviously not the production)- which is a commonplace observation.
Dr Norman Page says:
October 28, 2013 at 1:56 pm
As for the rest your just playing with words to be argumentative . Obviously the sun is the main driver and is responsible for the 10Be flux .
I never play with words to be argumentative. My goal is to be informative. My point is that we do not know what the 10Be flux was, only the [climate contaminated] 10Be concentration. Making some assumptions about the deposition, e.g. by measuring the thickness of the annual layers, we can get a rough idea about the flux. But I will not complain about you trying to look for cycles in temperature data and extrapolate those for forecasting [although I personally don’t think that is very useful], but this post is about solar variations, not climate cycles.
In the opening sentence of my first comment I said
“I have been forecasting global cooling based on quasi periodic quasi repetitive patterns and solar activity decline for several years now. Seems reasonably well on topic.
You say ” But I will not complain about you trying to look for cycles in temperature data and extrapolate those for forecasting [although I personally don’t think that is very useful ”
Why don’t you think it is very useful?
What method do you think is currently more useful – modeling is obviously hopeless.
Dr Norman Page says:
October 28, 2013 at 2:51 pm
What method do you think is currently more useful – modeling is obviously hopeless.
I don’t think there is a useful method at the moment. Cyclomania is not very useful, unless you know the physics [e.g. we can predict that summer will be warmer than winter, because we know why]. At some point in the future modeling will eventually work.
Leif Check figs 3,4,and 5 at the last post at http://climatesense-norpag.blogspot.com
I don’t think that to suggest the temperature peaks in 60 and 1000 year cycles coincide in 2003+/-
is particularly maniacal to me – looks more like being a very obvious Occams Razor type working hypothesis which can be tested in the fairly short term say by 2018 -20.
Dr Norman Page says:
October 28, 2013 at 3:32 pm
I don’t think that to suggest the temperature peaks in 60 and 1000 year cycles coincide in 2003+/- is particularly maniacal to me – looks more like being a very obvious Occams Razor type working hypothesis which can be tested in the fairly short term say by 2018 -20.
Testing a 1000-yr cycle in 5 years time does strike me as a bit cyclomaniacal.
Not so – look at the width of the peak in 1000 Fig3 If 2003+/- was the peak we should see some increase in the cooling rate by 2018-20
mkelly says:
October 28, 2013 at 12:45 pm
“Friction between air and surface is the heating mechanism for Chinook not TSI.”
You are confused – a Chinook is a Foehn wind – warmed by adiabatic compression ( a variation on PV = nRT). See :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foehn_wind
Hi, Dr. Svalgaard,
Here, watch this — it will put you in a better mood
to answer the next series of Norman Page questions. #(:))
Hurrah for the Danes!
Thank you, again, for all your instruction here on WUWT.
Yours,
Janice