Thoughts on IPCC AR5 SPM – discussion thread

There’s so much to talk about in the IPCC AR5 report, and I have other obligations this weekend. So, it seems time for an open thread on the subject.

IPCC_AR5_OpenThread

A few starting thoughts:

1. It seems news coverage is rather muted. Google News says there are 1087 news media articles that use the phrase “IPCC AR5” as of this writing. That’s low. Typically a major story will get from 2000-4000 stories. Many of the 1087 are blog posts from new media outlets like Huffington Post. The typical outlets like NYT and the Guardian have their obligatory boilerplate coverage, but it doesn’t seem to have much trickle down. The phrase “It doesn’t play in Peoria” might be an apt description of the news coverage.

2. It seems the climate skeptics have landed and have obtained a beachhead. Many stories I’ve viewed contain skeptical opinions, far more so than in 2007 with AR4. Even the NYT in this story U.N. Climate Panel Endorses Ceiling on Global Emissions mentioned the Heartland Institute’s opinion about how many degrees of warming might be expected.

3. The science is apparently not settled at all. The failure of the IPCC to give a “best estimate” number for climate sensitivity, which breaks with tradition in the previous four reports, is remarkable. In a footnote at the bottom of page 11 of the SPM, it seems that there is dissension in the science, and in the ranks:

nobest-estimate-sensitivity[1]

So much for the much ballyhooed “consensus”.

Dr. Roy Spencer sums it up:

A best estimate for climate sensitivity — unarguably THE most important climate change variable — is no longer provided, due to mounting contradictory evidence on whether the climate system really cares very much about whether there are 2, or 3, or 4, parts of CO2 per 10,000 parts atmosphere.

YET…the IPCC claims their confidence has DOUBLED (uncertainty reduced from 10% that 5%) regarding their claim that humans are most of the cause behind the warming trend in the last 50 years or so:

“It is extremely likely that human influence on climate caused more than half of the observed increase in global average surface temperature from 1951-2010.”

4. The things that we saw with the leaked SPM draft that suggested a more moderate approach, seem to have been disappeared. For example, Bob Tisdale has done a before and after comparison here: Side-By-Side Comparison of Draft and Final IPCC AR5 SPM on Warming Plateau and Attribution and noted that “It appears the politicians agreed to delete the attribution discussion of the warming plateau.”

You can do your own comparisons with the two documents:

the final draft (7Jun2013) and the approved final version (27Sep2013)

5. Dr. Richard Lindzen has made a statement, via Climate Depot, that sums up what many of us think, and why AR5 SPM is a credibility train wreck:

I think that the latest IPCC report has truly sunk to level of hilarious incoherence.  They are proclaiming increased confidence in their models as the discrepancies between their models and observations increase.

Their excuse for the absence of warming over the past 17 years is that the heat is hiding in the deep ocean.  However, this is simply an admission that the models fail to simulate the exchanges of heat between the surface layers and the deeper oceans.  However, it is this heat transport that plays a major role in natural internal variability of climate, and the IPCC assertions that observed warming can be attributed to man depend crucially on their assertion that these models accurately simulate natural internal variability.  Thus, they now, somewhat obscurely, admit that their crucial assumption was totally unjustified.

Finally, in attributing warming to man, they fail to point out that the warming has been small, and totally consistent with there being nothing to be alarmed about.  It is quite amazing to see the contortions the IPCC has to go through in order to keep the international climate agenda going.

6. On the plus side, contrary to ongoing claims from that alarmist media mill side there are no mentions of tornadoes and hurricanes in the extreme weather events section. They give low confidence to tropical storm activity being connected to climate change, and don’t mention mesoscale events like tornadoes and thunderstorms at all. Similarly, they give low confidence to drought and flood attribution.

They’ve only talked about heat waves and precipitation events and being connected. From Page 4 of the SPM:

IPCC_AR5_SPM_Extreme

IPCC_AR5_SPM_Table1

This is consistent with what was reported last year in the IPCC SREX report ( IPCC Special Report on Extremes PDF)

From Chapter 4 of the SREX:

  • “There is medium evidence and high agreement that long-term trends in normalized losses have not been attributed to natural or anthropogenic climate change”
  • “The statement about the absence of trends in impacts attributable to natural or anthropogenic climate change holds for tropical and extratropical storms and tornados”
  • “The absence of an attributable climate change signal in losses also holds for flood losses”

Let’s hope this lack of attribution of severe storms to “man made climate change” in AR5 finally nails the lid shut on the claims of Hurricane Sandy, tornado outbreaks, and other favorite “lets not let a good crisis go to waste” media bleatings about climate change.

Now with two IPCC reports making no connection, and with Nature’s editorial last year dashing alarmist hopes of linking extreme weather events to global warming saying:

Better models are needed before exceptional events can be reliably linked to global warming.

…we can finally call it a dead issue.

There’s simply no connection between droughts, hurricanes, thunderstorms, flash floods, tornadoes and “climate change”. Note to Brad Johnson of “Forecast the Facts”, and Bill McKibben of 350.org, both of whom daily try to link weather events to climate change: IPCC says STFU.

There are many more things of interest to discuss, but this should provide a good primer. – Anthony

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September 29, 2013 11:10 am

davidmhoffer says:
September 29, 2013 at 11:00 am
Phil.
Explain how heat travelling down this gradient would violate the second law.
In fact such transfer would be required!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Well yes, if one ignores that whole warm water being less dense and rising thing….

Which has nothing to do with the second law!
Conduction down the gradient is allowed by the second law and wouldn’t be impacted by density considerations since the shallower water would always be warmer than the deep by that mechanism.

John West
September 29, 2013 12:24 pm

The GHE (Greenhouse Effect) doesn’t “heat” anything, it slows the cooling of the surface (mostly ocean) that’s been heated by the sun. The surface (a grey body) radiates based on its temperature but its net heat loss via radiant transfer equals its radiation minus the radiation it receives from above. Increasing the radiation from above (GHE) decreases the amount of heat lost via radiant heat transfer. Theoretically this induces an imbalance which requires the surface to increase in temperature in order to radiate more heat, but the heat could also conceivable flow from the surface to the subsurface (deep ocean) where for all practicable purposes would be gone forever since the deep ocean has a massive heat capacity and could easily absorb the 4 Hiroshima bombs per second for millennia without a noticeable change in temperature. Of course, that’s merely one conceivable outcome; another is the decrease in radiant heat loss increases evaporation that increases cloud cover that decreases heating from the sun. Personally, I like the emergent phenomena timing change hypothesis, but it’s likely that it’s a combination of all these and not just one.

September 29, 2013 12:25 pm

JohnWho says:
September 28, 2013 at 7:03 am
Uh, it looks like parts of the MSM are waking up:
“U.N. Climate Panel Endorses Ceiling on Global Emissions”
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/28/science/global-climate-change-report.html?_r=0
————————————————————————————————————–
The comment section for this article is closed after 518 comments. Note that almost all of the ‘reader,s pick’ and the ‘NYT pick’ are comments that support the IPCC viewpoint.

September 29, 2013 1:25 pm

Phil.;
Which has nothing to do with the second law!
Conduction down the gradient is allowed by the second law and wouldn’t be impacted by density considerations
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Oh puhleeez! You know very well what I meant. Warm water rises which makes sequestering significant amounts of heat at depth impossible. LW from CO2 is fully absorbed in the first few microns of water. Sunlight penetrates to 100 meters, and is measured in the hundreds of w/m2, not the paltry 3.7 w/m2 from CO2 doubling, and yet cannot warm the depths. dbstealey may have been right for the wrong reason, but he was right, and you’ve been hanging around here long enough to know that. If you want to correct someone’s assertion, by all means, but don’t do it in such a fashion as to mislead others.

London247
September 29, 2013 2:18 pm

Re the ongoing discussion about heat hiding in the oceans I would just like to point out there is a heat source below the oceans called the core with the mantle and crust effectively acting as insulators There is a thermal gradient of about 2000 K over 20 – 100 km to the ocean deeps which are 4 C. This may complicate any simple model allowing for only heat to be transferred to the oceans from the surface.

Anthony Hanwell
September 29, 2013 2:25 pm

At the press conference to launch the SPM a reporter was told in answer to his question about the hiatus that “you cannot draw conclusions about climate trends in any period less than 30 years”. So why is he (and the IPCC) worried about the 18 years of warming from 1979 to 1998?

Just Steve
September 29, 2013 3:23 pm

So, the ocean eats global warming……ok……..so why did we have that 18 year warming trend? Was the ocean delinquent in it’s duties?? Why have there been warming trends at all?
The way the warmanistas talk, apparently the oceans are Willis’ great “thermostat” that moderates global temps.
Crisis diverted!

Mike Jowsey
September 29, 2013 4:51 pm

peter says:
September 28, 2013 at 7:10 am

It makes it very hard for someone like me, who really does not have the book learning to examine the facts properly and has to rely on other people for information to wonder if I am letting my bias against snake oil salesman blind me to the truth and GM really is happening.

Have a look at this video clip of a lecture (36mins) given a couple of years ago by Prof. Bob Carter. It’s very easy for a layman like me to understand, and it clearly shows via empirical data that the Holocene Climatic Optimum is not unusual geologically. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpfMM3bVbhQ

Steve
September 29, 2013 6:20 pm

Many thanks to the commentators who have explained the concepts eloquently. Much appreciated.
Steve

September 29, 2013 6:42 pm

rtj1211 says:
September 28, 2013 at 11:20 am
Go read Michael Mann in the UK Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/28/ipcc-climate-change-deniers
———————————————————————————————————–
What a weasel the Mann is. Early in his article he feels the need to disparage Curry and Lomborg. His entire premise is “trust none but us. We will lead the Way.”. I presume that Pitthewelder is the Mann, himself. All of ‘Pitts’ comments are negative based.

September 29, 2013 8:26 pm

davidmhoffer says:
September 29, 2013 at 1:25 pm
Phil.;
Which has nothing to do with the second law!
Conduction down the gradient is allowed by the second law and wouldn’t be impacted by density considerations
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Oh puhleeez! You know very well what I meant. Warm water rises which makes sequestering significant amounts of heat at depth impossible.

No I didn’t know what you meant, warm water only rises if the water above is colder, heating from the top is inherently stable (as in the stratosphere). The thermal gradient of the ocean which I showed indicates that conduction from above will occur as will of course radiation heat transfer. Both of which will maintain a steady gradient while doing so. Thermohaline effects and winds will induce convective overturning of course.
LW from CO2 is fully absorbed in the first few microns of water. Sunlight penetrates to 100 meters, and is measured in the hundreds of w/m2, not the paltry 3.7 w/m2 from CO2 doubling, and yet cannot warm the depths. dbstealey may have been right for the wrong reason, but he was right,
No he’s flat out wrong, he said:
“If heat was traveling downward through the oceans [aside from the fact that it would violate the 2nd Law]”
There is no violation of the Second Law due to heat transfer down a gradient.
and you’ve been hanging around here long enough to know that. If you want to correct someone’s assertion, by all means, but don’t do it in such a fashion as to mislead others.
It’s you and stealey who’re attempting to mislead

September 29, 2013 8:41 pm

As usual, Phil. emits a bogus strawman fallacy: I never discussed a “gradient”. But thanx for playing, and Vanna has some lovely parting gifts for you. Better luck next time.
The central issue is still the same: does rising CO2 cause global warming?
Answer: No.
At least, nothing measurable. Thus, the alarmist scare is debunked. Again.

September 29, 2013 9:05 pm

Phil.;
Agreed there’s no violation of the 2nd law, but there’s also no way for heat to transit the upper layers of the ocean on their way to the lower layers undetected by the argo buoys. If the heat could in fact skip over the upper layers, physics itself would be broken, not a law or two. If such skipping did occur, the very stability you mentioned would be compromised, and CO2 would be doing what millions of years of sunshine could not, which is substantively warm the lower reaches of the oceans. Beyond that, even if all those things were true (insane to think so, but hey, let’s run with it for a moment) one still has an ocean with 1200 times the heat capacity of the atmosphere, and we ought to be able to measure the difference in temperature in…. a few centuries.

September 29, 2013 9:30 pm

dbstealey says:
September 29, 2013 at 8:41 pm
As usual, Phil. emits a bogus strawman fallacy: I never discussed a “gradient”. But thanx for playing, and Vanna has some lovely parting gifts for you. Better luck next time.

Not a strawman, you stated that heat transport downwards through the ocean violated the Second Law (see below). As I showed the thermal gradient in the ocean is warm at the top and cold at the bottom thus transport from top to bottom is allowed by the Second Law. Implicitly by invoking the Second Law in that way you did discuss a gradient, you just got it wrong!
dbstealey says:
September 29, 2013 at 3:02 am
If heat was traveling downward through the oceans [aside from the fact that it would violate the 2nd Law],

September 29, 2013 10:05 pm

davidmhoffer says:
September 29, 2013 at 9:05 pm
Phil.;
Agreed there’s no violation of the 2nd law, but there’s also no way for heat to transit the upper layers of the ocean on their way to the lower layers undetected by the argo buoys. If the heat could in fact skip over the upper layers, physics itself would be broken, not a law or two.

And it doesn’t, so what’s your problem?
http://www.nodc.noaa.gov/OC5/3M_HEAT_CONTENT/

September 29, 2013 10:37 pm

I said the Argo buoys Phil. You’ve posted a link to data that starts decades before the Argo project and which consists of highly suspect data which is why the Argo buoys were deployed in the first place.

September 30, 2013 3:16 am

Phil. is the original Mr Strawman, isn’t he?

September 30, 2013 7:22 am

davidmhoffer says:
September 29, 2013 at 10:37 pm
I said the Argo buoys Phil. You’ve posted a link to data that starts decades before the Argo project and which consists of highly suspect data which is why the Argo buoys were deployed in the first place.

The recent data in that graph is ARGO data, I wasn’t able to access the Levitus 2012 graph to show that. However there’s no indication in either NOAA or Levitus (2012) that the heat ‘skipped’ over the upper layers and was missed by the ARGO buoys as you assert, so could you explain where you get that idea from?

September 30, 2013 10:15 am

Phil. says he can’t seem to find ARGO data. Maybe that is because he doesn’t really want to find it: the ARGO data shows conclusively that there is no accelerated ocean warming. In fact, ocean warming semms to have stopped:
ARGO 1
ARGO 2
ARGO 3
ARGO 4
Ocean Heat Content has stopped rising
Oceans are cooling — real time
Whenever there is a discrepancy between models and empirical [real world] evidence, like there is here, the models are wrong. That’s all there is to it, as Prof Richard Feynman has said.
Phil. is arguing models. David Hoffer and I are arguing real world, measured evidence.
Readers can judge for themselves who is right — and who is wrong.

September 30, 2013 11:23 am

3.7.4 Assessment of Evidence for Accelerations in Sea Level Rise
AR4 concluded that there was “high confidence that the rate of global sea level rise increased from the 19th to the 20th century” but could not be certain as to whether the higher rate since 1993 was reflective of decadal variability or a further increase in the longer-term trend. Since AR4, there has been considerable effort to quantify the level of decadal and multi-decadal variability and to detect acceleration in GMSL and mean sea level at individual tide gauges.
It has been clear for some time that there was a significant increase in the rate of sea level rise in the four oldest records from Northern Europe starting in the early to mid-19th century (Ekman, 1988; Woodworth, 1990, 1999; Mitchum et al., 2010). Estimates of the change in the rate have been computed, either by comparing trends over 100-year intervals for the Stockholm site (Ekman,
1988; Woodworth, 1990), or by fitting a quadratic term to all the long records starting before 1850
(Woodworth, 1990, 1999). The results are consistent and indicate a significant acceleration that started in the early to mid-19th century (Woodworth, 1990, 1999), although some have argued it may have started in the late 1700s (Jevrejeva et al., 2008). The increase in the rate of sea level rise at Stockholm (the longest record that extends past 1900) has been based on differencing 100-year trends from 1774–1884 and 1885–1985.
The estimated change is 1.0 [0.7 to 1.3] mm yr–1 per century (1 standard error, as calculated by Woodworth, 1990).

http://www.climatechange2013.org/images/uploads/WGIAR5_WGI-12Doc2b_FinalDraft_Chapter03.pdf
The title suggests in its words that there will be a continuous acceleration in sea level rise also for the future. Prof Rahmstorf writes: “es wird jetzt ein erheblich rascherer Anstieg erwartet (28-98 cm bis 2100). Das liegt um über 50% über den alten Projektionen (18-59 cm), wenn man gleiche Emissionsszenarien und Zeitspannen vergleicht.“
http://www.scilogs.de/wblogs/blog/klimalounge/klimadaten/2013-09-27/der-neue-ipcc-klimabericht
This projection of time span in the past ignores some known facts. Temperatures as well as the physical coupled sea level from the water properties are based on time periods per example the ~900 year time period with Little Ice Age ~450 years ago. We are now in the phase of a maximum of this time period. It is evident that the sea level rising trend in the last 15 years have decreased because of the pause in global warming.
http://www.volker-doormann.org/images/sealevel_vs_temp.gif
There are superimposed some sea level data and global temperatures. There is no reason that the sea level has an accelerations in sea level rise today.
Have fun.
V.

October 2, 2013 9:15 am

This gif shows conclusively that the sea level at La Jolla, California, has not changed in a century.
Who should we believe? The planet? Or Phil.?
Because they cannot both be right.

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