The R. W. Wood Experiment

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

Pushed by a commenter on another thread, I thought I’d discuss the R. W. Wood experiment, done in 1909. Many people hold that this experiment shows that CO2 absorption and/or back-radiation doesn’t exist, or at least that the poorly named “greenhouse effect” is trivially small. I say it doesn’t show anything at all. Let me show you the manifold problems with the experiment.

To start with, let me give a curious example of the greenhouse effect, that of the Steel Greenhouse. Imagine a planet in the vacuum of space. A residue of nuclear material reacting in the core warms it to where it is radiating at say 235 watts per square metre (W/m2). Figure 1 shows the situation.

steel greenhouse 1Figure 1. Planet in outer space, heated from the interior. Drawing show equilibrium situation

This planet is at equilibrium. The natural reactor in the core of the planet is generating power that at the planet’s surface amounts to 235 W/m2. It is radiating the same amount, so it is neither warming nor cooling.

Now, imagine that without changing anything else, we put a steel shell around the planet. Figure 2 shows that situation, with one side of the shell temporarily removed so we can look inside.

steel greenhouse 2Figure 2. As in Figure 1, but with a solid steel shell surrounding the planet. Near side of the shell temporarily removed to view interior. Vertical distance of the shell from the surface is greatly exaggerated for clarity—in reality the shell and the shell have nearly the same surface area. (A shell 6 miles (10 km) above the Earth has an exterior area only 0.3% larger than the Earth’s surface area.)

[UPDATE: Misunderstandings revealed in the comments demonstrated that I  lacked clarity. To expand, let me note that because the difference in exterior surface area of the shell and the surface is only 0.3%,  I am making the simplifying assumption that they are equal. This clarifies the situation greatly. Yes, it introduces a whopping error of 0.3% in the calculations, which people have jumped all over in the comments as if it meant something … really, folks, 0.3%? If you like, you can do the calculations in total watts, which comes to the same answer. I am also making the simplifying assumption that both the planet and shell are “blackbodies”, meaning they absorb all of the infrared that hits them.]

Now, note what happens when we add a shell around the planet. The shell warms up and it begins to radiate as well … but it radiates the same amount inwards and outwards. The inwards radiation warms the surface of the planet, until it is radiating at 470 W/m2. At that point the system is back in equilibrium. The planet is receiving 235 W/m2 from the interior, plus 235 W/m2 from the shell, and it is radiating the total amount, 470 W/m2. The shell is receiving 470 W/m2 from the planet, and it is radiating the same amount, half inwards back to the planet and half outwards to outer space. Note also that despite the fact that the planetary surface ends up much warmer (radiating 470 W/m2), energy is conserved. The same 235 W/m2 of power is emitted to space as in Figure 1.

And that is all that there is to the poorly named greenhouse effect. It does not require CO2 or an atmosphere, it can be built out of steel. It depends entirely on the fact that a shell has two sides and a solid body only has one side.

Now, this magical system works because there is a vacuum between the planet and the shell. As a result, the planet and the shell can take up very different temperatures. If they could not do so, if for example the shell were held up by huge thick pillars that efficiently conducted the heat from the surface to the shell, then the two would always be at the same temperature, and that temperature would be such that the system radiated at 235 W/m2. There would be no differential heating of the surface, and there would be no greenhouse effect.

Another way to lower the efficiency of the system is to introduce an atmosphere. Each watt of power lost by atmospheric convection of heat from the surface to the shell reduces the radiation temperature of the surface by the same amount. If the atmosphere can conduct the surface temperature effectively enough to the shell, the surface ends up only slightly warmer than the shell.

Let me summarize. In order for the greenhouse effect to function, the shell has to be thermally isolated from the surface so that the temperatures of the two can differ substantially. If the atmosphere or other means efficiently transfers surface heat to the shell there will be very little difference in temperature between the two.

Now, remember that I started out to discuss the R. W. Wood experiment. Here is the report of that experiment, from the author. I have highlighted the experimental setup.

Note on the Theory of the Greenhouse

By Professor R. W. Wood (Communicated by the Author)

THERE appears to be a widespread belief that the comparatively high temperature produced within a closed space covered with glass, and exposed to solar radiation, results from a transformation of wave-length, that is, that the heat waves from the sun, which are able to penetrate the glass, fall upon the walls of the enclosure and raise its temperature: the heat energy is re-emitted by the walls in the form of much longer waves, which are unable to penetrate the glass, the greenhouse acting as a radiation trap.

I have always felt some doubt as to whether this action played any very large part in the elevation of temperature. It appeared much more probable that the part played by the glass was the prevention of the escape of the warm air heated by the ground within the enclosure. If we open the doors of a greenhouse on a cold and windy day, the trapping of radiation appears to lose much of its efficacy. As a matter of fact I am of the opinion that a greenhouse made of a glass transparent to waves of every possible length would show a temperature nearly, if not quite, as high as that observed in a glass house. The transparent screen allows the solar radiation to warm the ground, and the ground in turn warms the air, but only the limited amount within the enclosure. In the “open,” the ground is continually brought into contact with cold air by convection currents.

To test the matter I constructed two enclosures of dead black cardboard, one covered with a glass plate, the other with a plate of rock-salt of equal thickness. The bulb of a thermometer was inserted in each enclosure and the whole packed in cotton, with the exception of the transparent plates which were exposed. When exposed to sunlight the temperature rose gradually to 65 oC., the enclosure covered with the salt plate keeping a little ahead of the other, owing to the fact that it transmitted the longer waves from the sun, which were stopped by the glass. In order to eliminate this action the sunlight was first passed through a glass plate.

There was now scarcely a difference of one degree between the temperatures of the two enclosures. The maximum temperature reached was about 55 oC. From what we know about the distribution of energy in the spectrum of the radiation emitted by a body at 55 o, it is clear that the rock-salt plate is capable of transmitting practically all of it, while the glass plate stops it entirely. This shows us that the loss of temperature of the ground by radiation is very small in comparison to the loss by convection, in other words that we gain very little from the circumstance that the radiation is trapped.

Is it therefore necessary to pay attention to trapped radiation in deducing the temperature of a planet as affected by its atmosphere? The solar rays penetrate the atmosphere, warm the ground which in turn warms the atmosphere by contact and by convection currents. The heat received is thus stored up in the atmosphere, remaining there on account of the very low radiating power of a gas. It seems to me very doubtful if the atmosphere is warmed to any great extent by absorbing the radiation from the ground, even under the most favourable conditions.

I do not pretend to have gone very deeply into the matter, and publish this note merely to draw attention to the fact that trapped radiation appears to play but a very small part in the actual cases with which we are familiar.

Here would be my interpretation of his experimental setup:

r w wood experiment 2Figure 3. Cross section of the R. W. Wood experiment. The two cardboard boxes are painted black. One is covered with glass, which absorbs and re-emits infrared. The other is covered with rock salt, which is transparent to infrared. They are packed in cotton wool. Thermometers not shown.

Bearing in mind the discussion of the steel greenhouse above, I leave it as an exercise for the interested reader to work out why this is not a valid test of infrared back-radiation on a planetary scale … please consider the presence of the air in the boxes, the efficiency of the convective heat transfer through that air from the box to the cover plates, the vertical temperature profile of that air, the transfer of power from the “surface” to the “shell” through the walls of the box, and the relative temperatures of the air, the box, and the transparent cover.

Seems to me like with a few small changes it could indeed be a valid test, however.

Best regards,

w.

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Don
February 9, 2013 7:21 pm

Phil. says:
February 9, 2013 at 2:57 pm
“…yet every time I mention it it’s ignored and we still get the comments of the idiotic Greg House etc.”
Aw, Phil, don’t you think you’re being a little hard on Greg? Rather let’s just say that his intelligence has never been proven experimentally.

February 9, 2013 7:41 pm

tjfolkerts
I understand, I also appreciated your feedback. I don’t remember if you had any referenced doc’s above, but if you have some recommendations I’d love to read them.

davidmhoffer
February 9, 2013 8:01 pm

Bart says:
February 9, 2013 at 7:09 pm
davidmhoffer says:
February 9, 2013 at 6:31 pm
Thanks. I hope you noted my point above though that, even though the GHE does raise the surface temperature above what it would be without the GHGs, there is no guarantee that an incremental increase in GHGs will lead to an incremental increase in surface temperature, i.e., the local sensitivity is not necessarily positive, much less significantly so.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
100% agreement. The system as a whole is ugly complex, the data itself increasingly shows sensitivity is low. Not that we can trust the data all that much given that it is a trend comprised of anomalies averaged together despite coming from completely different temperature regimes. When I ask the warmists to justify averaging an anomaly with a baseline of -30 with an anomaly from a baseline of +30, all I get is crickets chirping. Well, except for Joel Shore who evades the question by claiming that there’s no good single metric so its OK to use a crappy one.
I also challenge the notion that an increase in CO2 increases the mean radiating level and results in a linear temperature response down to earth surface. The first part makes sense, absent feedback mechanisms that change the result, the mean radiating level should be higher. But a linear response down to earth surface? The atmospheric air column is not uniform. Particularly in the tropics there is a band of water vapour as high as 40,000 ppm, but it is mostly close to earth surface. The bulk of LW re-directed doward by CO2 has to originate above this layer. The water vapour being a ghg must resist LW in BOTH directions, in part negating CO2’s effects.
Beyond that you have all the feedbacks which aren’t even close to being understood. The IPCC is even flip flopping now, suggesting that maybe solar cycles are significant after all, and not only that, they think they may have got the sign of the effect wrong. I don’t have the answers, but neither me nor anyone else is gong to get any closer to the right answers with cardboard box experiments done with crude apparatus and a methodology so stupid that even woods himself expressed reservations about it.

Bart
February 9, 2013 9:24 pm

davidmhoffer says:
February 9, 2013 at 8:01 pm
As you are aware, I don’t even think there is valid support for the proposition that humans are significantly responsible for the uptick in atmospheric CO2. The whole thing is a scientific fiasco of the first order, and will be used as a cautionary tale against scientific hubris for generations to come.

davidmhoffer
February 9, 2013 9:46 pm

Bart;
Can you walk me through what you mean by “integrated 0.2(LOTI+.4)”?

February 9, 2013 9:56 pm

It is very disappointing to read the responses to the original article and to the comments generated therefrom. Surely most readers are familiar with the Latin phrase “reductio ad absurdum”. One does not need a knowledge of physics to realise that the original proposition is absurd especially once it was pointed out that adding more steel shells increased the radiant energy emitted by the sphere without any additional energy being generated by the nuclear source within that sphere. If this was the case then we would long ago have started running blast furnaces with the heat generated by a 5 Watt torch bulb.
Added to this absurdity is the claim that a colder source will increase the temperature of an already hotter body. We all know from personal experience that a hot source will increase the temperature of its colder surroundings. We have never experienced a cold source increasing the temperature of a hotter source for the very reason that to do so would mean that all objects in the Universe would be causing an increased temperature for all other objects, thereby increasing the temperature of the whole of the Universe without any addition of energy. If true, the cosmic microwave back-ground radiation throughout the life span of the Universe would long ago have caused the asteroids and planets to vaporise.
Nature is the final arbiter of what happens in reality, not our individual interpretations of the words/formulae in our physics text books.
As for the Greenhouse Effect, the radiation from a source is calculated by the Stefan-Boltzmann law. This requires a perfect black body, that is, complete absorption of incoming radiation and equally complete emission of the same amount of radiation. It also depends on the body being at thermal equilibrium meaning no change in temperature of the source. The resulting calculated radiation is then proposed as causing an increase in the temperature of the source whose temperature is required to be static. Yet another absurdity.

Greg House
February 9, 2013 10:14 pm

MattS says, February 7, 2013 at 9:00 pm: “Greg House,
“The original official IPCC version has been broken since it came into existence around 1860″
This statement is simply absurd. The IPCC was created in 1988. Therefore the official IPCC version of GHE or anything else for that matter did not exist before 1988.

================================================================
Nothing absurd here. The official IPCC version of the “greenhouse effect” (as presented here: http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/faq-1-3.html) is much older than the IPCC itself. As far as I know, it all started in 1860, after Tyndall’s experiments with gases. It had been around for 49 years, before professor Wood found a few free hours to deal with the issue.

ThePhysicsGuy
February 9, 2013 10:47 pm

Hey Willis,
I am not the one who suggested the sun could be warmed by a candle. My statement regarding heat and EM radiation are correct. I thought we were saying the same thing, but I don’t think so since you believe a cooler body can warm a warmer body. Heat flows in one direction per the 2nd Law; from the warmer to the cooler.
Peace, brother.

Gail Combs
February 10, 2013 12:58 am

Bart says: February 9, 2013 at 9:24 pm
…I don’t even think there is valid support for the proposition that humans are significantly responsible for the uptick in atmospheric CO2. The whole thing is a scientific fiasco of the first order, and will be used as a cautionary tale against scientific hubris for generations to come.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
That is only if the eco-luddites don’t manage to send us back to the stone age first. This seems to be the primary goal of the rank and file. A world dictatorship is the goal of those orchestrating the mess and the winner gets to writes history.

Bryan
Reply to  Gail Combs
February 10, 2013 2:46 am

Its difficult to know whether to laugh or to cry when reading someof the comments.
Carnot, Clausius and Maxwell might as well have never been born.
The Hoffer tendency use to word ‘heat’ without defining it.
The major error for some of this group is to say infra red radiation is heat – wrong.
For two objects coupled by radiative exchange the net flux is the HEAT flow.
It always flows spontaneously from the higher to the lower temperature.
Another aspect of HEAT is that it is always capable of doing thermodynamic work.
if a heat engine or transducer is placed in the heat flow it will do work (such as drive the piston of a steam engine).
Can we get the piston to work if we take energy from a cold temperature reservoir source and dump the unused part at a higher temperature sink
No we cannot
Can we get the piston to work if we take energy from a high temperature reservoir source and dump the unused part at a lower temperature sink.
Yes we can.
I said previously that there is no debate in physics about the direction of spontaneous heat flow.
It is always from higher to lower temperatures.
Anyone who doubts this needs only to look at any physics text book
tjfolkerts agrees
Joel Shore agrees
Anyone who attended a physics thermodynamics class and remembers what went on agrees.

February 10, 2013 1:40 am

gbaikie says:
February 9, 2013 at 3:51 pm
“But can 60 watts make the 100 watt brighter?
Can two 100 watts make both brighter?
The filaments can increase the bulb temperature.
So if had two filament- one 60 w and other 100 w
in same light bulb the bulb temperature should increase.
Since the filaments in above example would further apart it
would have less effect. But main affect seems to the inhibition
of convection- which the main way they cool down.
Or light bulbs in a vacuum should be hotter- but not
burn brighter.”
Wired in series
When a 100-watt bulb and a 60-watt bulb are wired in series a 60-watt bulb will glow brighter when the current is turned on. because they share the same current. Since the 100-watt bulb has a thicker filament, which has less resistance, it will glow dimmer than the 60-watt bulb which has a thinner, higher resistance filament.
Wired in parallel
When a 100-watt bulb and a 60-watt bulb are wired in parallel the 100-watt bulb will glow brighter when the current is turned on. This is because In parallel, they share the same voltage. Since the 100-watt bulb has a thicker filament, which has less resistance, it will draw more current and glow brighter than the 60-watt bulb which has a thinner, higher resistance filament.
The rating on a bulb specifies its “room temperature” resistance. Thus a 100-watt bulb rated for 120 volts would have an ideal resistance of
P = IV
P = (V/R)V
P = V2/R
rearranging for R
R = V2/P
R = 1202/100
R = 144 ohms
while a 60-watt bulb rated for 120 volts would have an ideal resistance of
R = V2/P
R = 1202/60
R = 240 ohms

February 10, 2013 1:53 am

ThePhysicsGuy says, February 9, 2013 at 6:26 am: David Socrates, I took a look at Tallbloke’s “The Great Debate”, and the ground rules establish essentially the “alarmist” GHG model as developed by Trenberth as the starting point. So if you don’t agree with the basic concepts of the model as set forth, too bad, that is not up for debate. No thanks. Sounds more like an indoctrination session.
Well just shows how wrong you can be. I am an arch skeptic. Judging by your generally illogical and scientifically faulty responses here, you don’t get Willis’s thought experiment either . Your loss is Willis’s undoubted gain.
He is right and you, my friend, have a lot to learn about physics.

Bart
February 10, 2013 2:40 am

davidmhoffer says:
February 9, 2013 at 9:46 pm
LOTI refers to the GISTEMP LOTI global mean temperature metric at the WoodForTrees site. It is observed that it is affinely related by those parameters to the derivative of CO2 to a high degree of fidelity. Thus, to get CO2, we initialize at the beginning value in the record, and integrate the affinely mapped temperature relationship from there. The integration was done numerically with a simple rectangular formula (Euler integration).
As you can see, the relationship is pretty darned good, and that was with no optimization for selecting the affine parameters, just pure eyeballing.

Bart
February 10, 2013 3:17 am

Bart says:
February 9, 2013 at 1:28 pm
tjfolkerts says:
February 9, 2013 at 6:41 am
“Suffice it to say that not all the power emitted by the inner surface of the shell hits the planet.”
Canceled out by neighboring emitters.

My explanation here was not very satisfying. I should have replied with a link to Huygen’s Principle. That illustrates how the radiation from the inner shell converges spherically onto the planet’s surface.

Gary Hladik
February 10, 2013 6:23 am

Bevan says (February 9, 2013 at 9:56 pm): “Added to this absurdity is the claim that a colder source will increase the temperature of an already hotter body.”
Let’s get specific. Assume somebody carries out Dr. Spencer’s “Yes, Virginia” thought experiment for real:
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2010/07/yes-virginia-cooler-objects-can-make-warmer-objects-even-warmer-still/
What’s your prediction? In the presence of the cooler bar, the electrically heated bar is
a) warmer
b) cooler
c) the same temp
as it is in the absence of the cooler bar?

Bryan
February 10, 2013 7:00 am

Gary Hladik
‘Warm’ as opposed to ‘heat’
The words are similar but not the same.
If you put on a blanket it will help keep you warm.
This assumes you have an internal source of energy.
A blanket round a warm statue will help it from losing heat at a faster rate but will never heat it up.
Likewise the Roy Spencers Virginia post.
What an atmosphere does is similar to a blanket .
It keeps the Earth surface warmer at night but also keeps it cooler by day.
Some have generalised the Yes Virginia ‘warm’ comment to mean the near presence of a cold object will always keep the higher temperature object warmer than it would otherwise be.
This is not correct.
Rearranging the Willis set up above.
The steel hollow sphere is in deep space (-273C) with an initial internal vacuum.
Its heated by an external variable power supply carefully monitored to maintain the temperature at 50C.
The voltage and current are noted, say as V1 and I1, to get power P1
Now suddenly insert an object inside the sphere at -40C ( I can because its a thought experiment! ).
What happens next?
Does the real radiation from the colder object warm the steel sphere when absorbed?
I think not.
To restore the steel sphere to 50C the supplied power (P2) would have to increase for a time.
So P2 > P1
Point being that in these apparent two object problems there is always a third (often ignored )temperature …..the surroundings.
In the example above the cold object at -40C is separated from the surrounding deep space by the steel sphere.
So no Virginia, colder objects don’t always ‘warm’ objects at a higher temperature.

Shawnhet
February 10, 2013 7:03 am

Bryan says:
February 10, 2013 at 2:46 am
“Its difficult to know whether to laugh or to cry when reading someof the comments.”
Let me propose a simple hypothetical to see if I can bridge some of the misunderstandings here.
Let’s say it is -20C outside and I throw my parka outside and let it cool to the ambient temperature. I then walk outside in my shirtsleeves and let my skin cool to 10C. Then I put my parka on and keep it on until my skin temperature goes back up to 20C.
Now, since I’m pretty sure that you agree that I did not get warmer by taking heat from my colder(-20C coat) to my warmer skin :how would you describe what is happening in this process?
Fundamentally, IMO you will probably be better at making sense of the mainstream view of the GHE if you view it in the same terms as the above rather than as what you *think* others are saying.
Cheers, 🙂

February 10, 2013 7:24 am

Re Gary Hladik says: February 10, 2013 at 6:23 am
My comment said nothing about an energy source such as an electrically heated bar. A hot cup of coffee does not get even hotter if an ice block is placed beside it. However a cup of water at an intermediate temperature, placed between the two, would slow the rate of cooling of the hot cup of coffee.

MikeB
February 10, 2013 7:50 am

george e. smith

You are correct to say that in practice true blackbodies may not exist.
A blackbody is a hypothetical object which has a value for absorptivity and emissivity of one, for all wavelengths. Such an object would therefore absorb all electromagnetic radiation which fell on it and would also emit radiation over all wavelengths in a spectrum conforming precisely to Planck’s distribution formula.
In practice, no substance is a perfect blackbody but some materials are a good approximation, especially over a restricted band of wavelengths (e.g. soot).
Although real-world materials are not perfect blackbodies, the concept of an ideal blackbody is useful in physics for determining the theoretical limits of emission by real objects.
Consequently, do you understand that in the steel shell model it does not matter if it the shell is a real blackbody or not? If it is not then the maths gets a bit more complicated but the principle is exactly the same.
Then you say

Planck’s black body radiation derivation explains no actual experimental observations anybody ever made, that I am aware of.

But Planck’s formula was produced to explain experimental observations? Let’s all agree that it was a big improvement on the ultra-violet catastrophe. If anything it was the theoretical derivation of Planck’s Law which was suspect. In order to derive this formula Planck had to make an unwarranted assumption. He assumed that energy was not infinitely divisible but came in ‘packets’ rather like atoms in matter. He offered no justification for this assumption, except that it gave the desired answer. Planck and everyone else at the time and for years afterwards regarded this as nothing more than a mathematical device, a trick needed to get an answer that matched observation. We now know that in fact Planck had laid the foundations for quantum mechanics

The Stefan-Boltzmann Law is of course nothing but the definite integral of the Planck radiation law

But Stefan’s Law (based on observation) and the Stefan-Boltzmann Law (reinforced with a theoretical derivation) pre-dated Planck and so this cannot possibly explain the derivation of Stefan-Boltzmann.
But of course you know too much not to know this.

MikeB
February 10, 2013 8:01 am

Bart,
When I direct you to my fist post it is because it is easier to follow as it uses real numbers and lots of people find screeds of maths difficult to grasp.
However, if you want maths, do it like this….
The core is generating X W/sq.m at the planet surface.
We are told this 235W/sq.m but let’s use X and let’s also say that the shell is emitting Y W/sq.m to space.
In equilibrium, the shell must emit at the same rate as the core is generating, so
Y = X * Area of Planet/Outer Area of Shell
The shell also emits Y W/sq.m back to the planet, but the planet is smaller than the shell so it receives back from the shell (in W/sq.m)
Y * (Inner Area of Shell/ Area of Planet)
The planet also receives X W/sq.m from the core and so the Planet receives in total….
X + Y * (Inner Area of Shell/ Area of Planet) …….W/Sq.m
Substituting for Y, the planet receives (W/sq.m)
X + X * (Area of Planet/outer Area of Shell)* (Inner Area of Shell/ Area of Planet)
=X + X* (outer Area of Shell/inner Area of shell)
For a thin shell this approximates to 2X, that is the planet is now receiving and emitting twice as much radiation as it was without the shell. Its temperature is of course determined by how much it emits.
And so you see, the thicker the shell – the hotter the planet surface becomes. This is the opposite of your conclusion.
I suggest you do some dimensional analysis on your working.

Gary Hladik
February 10, 2013 8:06 am

Bevan says (February 10, 2013 at 7:24 am): “My comment said nothing about an energy source such as an electrically heated bar.”
Actually, in the same comment you wrote: “One does not need a knowledge of physics to realise that the original proposition is absurd especially once it was pointed out that adding more steel shells increased the radiant energy emitted by the sphere without any additional energy being generated by the nuclear source within that sphere.”
Since Willis’s “original proposition” explicitly included an energy source, I was just wondering what you’d predict in a similar but potentially testable situation also involving an energy source. But if you don’t want to answer my question, that’s OK.

February 10, 2013 8:07 am

” However a cup of water at an intermediate temperature, placed between the two, would slow the rate of cooling of the hot cup of coffee.”
This is how the Earth is, space is about 3K, the atm over my house on a 35F (274K) clear sky day was 233K. The atm doesn’t warm my house, but it does keep it warmer than if there wasn’t an atm.

MikeB
February 10, 2013 8:18 am

Bryan says:
February 9, 2013 at 3:17 pm

Picture an object at say 80C and another neighbouring object at 20C….The cold object does not increase the temperature of the warmer.

Quite true, you got something right!
This is called the 2 body problem. But the 2-body body problem is not the real world because there are lots of bodies in it.
To see how a cold object makes a warmer on hotter you need to see the 3-body problem.
http://scienceofdoom.com/2010/11/05/the-three-body-problem/
I did point this out earlier but, as Richard Courtney says,

I fail to understand why these people are refusing to consider the explanations which I took the trouble to provide. (The post provided by MikeB (at February 8, 2013 at 3:17 pm) suggests they have a “conceptual” problem, but that does not explain their refusal to consider the explanations I provided.
Hence, I am bemused by the thread.

Gary Hladik
February 10, 2013 8:24 am

Bryan says (February 10, 2013 at 7:00 am): “Likewise the Roy Spencers Virginia post.
[snip]
So no Virginia, colder objects don’t always ‘warm’ objects at a higher temperature.”
Agreed. So what’s your prediction for the “Yes, Virginia” experiment?

davidmhoffer
February 10, 2013 8:43 am

According to the Greek philosopher Plato, we can only see because our eyes emit rays that strike the objects in our field of vision and then bounce back to our eyes so that we can see the object. This was proven in several experiments.
For example, look at an object a few feet away. Now insert your hand between your eyes and the object. Instantly, you can no longer see the object. This is because your hand has blocked the path of the rays from your eyes to the object. It doesn’t matter how many times you perform this experiment, you will get the exact same result. In fact, if you simply close your eyes, you are instantly unable to see anything at all because the rays from your eyes are completely blocked, proving that the rays from your eyes is how you see.
Now I know what some of you are thinking. If that’s true, then why can’t you see in the dark? Well Plato had that figured out too. You see the rays from your eyes don’t work unless they can interact with rays of light. This was also proven by Plato by experimentation also. Go into a dark room. You will notice right away that you can’t see anything. This is because the dark renders the rays from your eyes inert. Simply open a window in the day time (electric lights hadn’t been invented yet so Plato couldn’t just turn on a light) and instantly you can see again. The dark ceases to simply absorb the rays from your eyes, they become activated by the light. Once again though, even when an object is well lit, simply putting your hand between it and your eyes makes it impossible to see it because the rays from your eyes are blocked.
These experiments by Plato have stood up for 2500 years, and have been replicated thousands of times, proving that we see because of rays emitted by our eyes. If you read anything by any physicist that says otherwise, just remember that Plato proved them all wrong in the 5th century BC.

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