The R. W. Wood Experiment

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

Pushed by a commenter on another thread, I thought I’d discuss the R. W. Wood experiment, done in 1909. Many people hold that this experiment shows that CO2 absorption and/or back-radiation doesn’t exist, or at least that the poorly named “greenhouse effect” is trivially small. I say it doesn’t show anything at all. Let me show you the manifold problems with the experiment.

To start with, let me give a curious example of the greenhouse effect, that of the Steel Greenhouse. Imagine a planet in the vacuum of space. A residue of nuclear material reacting in the core warms it to where it is radiating at say 235 watts per square metre (W/m2). Figure 1 shows the situation.

steel greenhouse 1Figure 1. Planet in outer space, heated from the interior. Drawing show equilibrium situation

This planet is at equilibrium. The natural reactor in the core of the planet is generating power that at the planet’s surface amounts to 235 W/m2. It is radiating the same amount, so it is neither warming nor cooling.

Now, imagine that without changing anything else, we put a steel shell around the planet. Figure 2 shows that situation, with one side of the shell temporarily removed so we can look inside.

steel greenhouse 2Figure 2. As in Figure 1, but with a solid steel shell surrounding the planet. Near side of the shell temporarily removed to view interior. Vertical distance of the shell from the surface is greatly exaggerated for clarity—in reality the shell and the shell have nearly the same surface area. (A shell 6 miles (10 km) above the Earth has an exterior area only 0.3% larger than the Earth’s surface area.)

[UPDATE: Misunderstandings revealed in the comments demonstrated that I  lacked clarity. To expand, let me note that because the difference in exterior surface area of the shell and the surface is only 0.3%,  I am making the simplifying assumption that they are equal. This clarifies the situation greatly. Yes, it introduces a whopping error of 0.3% in the calculations, which people have jumped all over in the comments as if it meant something … really, folks, 0.3%? If you like, you can do the calculations in total watts, which comes to the same answer. I am also making the simplifying assumption that both the planet and shell are “blackbodies”, meaning they absorb all of the infrared that hits them.]

Now, note what happens when we add a shell around the planet. The shell warms up and it begins to radiate as well … but it radiates the same amount inwards and outwards. The inwards radiation warms the surface of the planet, until it is radiating at 470 W/m2. At that point the system is back in equilibrium. The planet is receiving 235 W/m2 from the interior, plus 235 W/m2 from the shell, and it is radiating the total amount, 470 W/m2. The shell is receiving 470 W/m2 from the planet, and it is radiating the same amount, half inwards back to the planet and half outwards to outer space. Note also that despite the fact that the planetary surface ends up much warmer (radiating 470 W/m2), energy is conserved. The same 235 W/m2 of power is emitted to space as in Figure 1.

And that is all that there is to the poorly named greenhouse effect. It does not require CO2 or an atmosphere, it can be built out of steel. It depends entirely on the fact that a shell has two sides and a solid body only has one side.

Now, this magical system works because there is a vacuum between the planet and the shell. As a result, the planet and the shell can take up very different temperatures. If they could not do so, if for example the shell were held up by huge thick pillars that efficiently conducted the heat from the surface to the shell, then the two would always be at the same temperature, and that temperature would be such that the system radiated at 235 W/m2. There would be no differential heating of the surface, and there would be no greenhouse effect.

Another way to lower the efficiency of the system is to introduce an atmosphere. Each watt of power lost by atmospheric convection of heat from the surface to the shell reduces the radiation temperature of the surface by the same amount. If the atmosphere can conduct the surface temperature effectively enough to the shell, the surface ends up only slightly warmer than the shell.

Let me summarize. In order for the greenhouse effect to function, the shell has to be thermally isolated from the surface so that the temperatures of the two can differ substantially. If the atmosphere or other means efficiently transfers surface heat to the shell there will be very little difference in temperature between the two.

Now, remember that I started out to discuss the R. W. Wood experiment. Here is the report of that experiment, from the author. I have highlighted the experimental setup.

Note on the Theory of the Greenhouse

By Professor R. W. Wood (Communicated by the Author)

THERE appears to be a widespread belief that the comparatively high temperature produced within a closed space covered with glass, and exposed to solar radiation, results from a transformation of wave-length, that is, that the heat waves from the sun, which are able to penetrate the glass, fall upon the walls of the enclosure and raise its temperature: the heat energy is re-emitted by the walls in the form of much longer waves, which are unable to penetrate the glass, the greenhouse acting as a radiation trap.

I have always felt some doubt as to whether this action played any very large part in the elevation of temperature. It appeared much more probable that the part played by the glass was the prevention of the escape of the warm air heated by the ground within the enclosure. If we open the doors of a greenhouse on a cold and windy day, the trapping of radiation appears to lose much of its efficacy. As a matter of fact I am of the opinion that a greenhouse made of a glass transparent to waves of every possible length would show a temperature nearly, if not quite, as high as that observed in a glass house. The transparent screen allows the solar radiation to warm the ground, and the ground in turn warms the air, but only the limited amount within the enclosure. In the “open,” the ground is continually brought into contact with cold air by convection currents.

To test the matter I constructed two enclosures of dead black cardboard, one covered with a glass plate, the other with a plate of rock-salt of equal thickness. The bulb of a thermometer was inserted in each enclosure and the whole packed in cotton, with the exception of the transparent plates which were exposed. When exposed to sunlight the temperature rose gradually to 65 oC., the enclosure covered with the salt plate keeping a little ahead of the other, owing to the fact that it transmitted the longer waves from the sun, which were stopped by the glass. In order to eliminate this action the sunlight was first passed through a glass plate.

There was now scarcely a difference of one degree between the temperatures of the two enclosures. The maximum temperature reached was about 55 oC. From what we know about the distribution of energy in the spectrum of the radiation emitted by a body at 55 o, it is clear that the rock-salt plate is capable of transmitting practically all of it, while the glass plate stops it entirely. This shows us that the loss of temperature of the ground by radiation is very small in comparison to the loss by convection, in other words that we gain very little from the circumstance that the radiation is trapped.

Is it therefore necessary to pay attention to trapped radiation in deducing the temperature of a planet as affected by its atmosphere? The solar rays penetrate the atmosphere, warm the ground which in turn warms the atmosphere by contact and by convection currents. The heat received is thus stored up in the atmosphere, remaining there on account of the very low radiating power of a gas. It seems to me very doubtful if the atmosphere is warmed to any great extent by absorbing the radiation from the ground, even under the most favourable conditions.

I do not pretend to have gone very deeply into the matter, and publish this note merely to draw attention to the fact that trapped radiation appears to play but a very small part in the actual cases with which we are familiar.

Here would be my interpretation of his experimental setup:

r w wood experiment 2Figure 3. Cross section of the R. W. Wood experiment. The two cardboard boxes are painted black. One is covered with glass, which absorbs and re-emits infrared. The other is covered with rock salt, which is transparent to infrared. They are packed in cotton wool. Thermometers not shown.

Bearing in mind the discussion of the steel greenhouse above, I leave it as an exercise for the interested reader to work out why this is not a valid test of infrared back-radiation on a planetary scale … please consider the presence of the air in the boxes, the efficiency of the convective heat transfer through that air from the box to the cover plates, the vertical temperature profile of that air, the transfer of power from the “surface” to the “shell” through the walls of the box, and the relative temperatures of the air, the box, and the transparent cover.

Seems to me like with a few small changes it could indeed be a valid test, however.

Best regards,

w.

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davidmhoffer
February 6, 2013 12:45 pm

When exposed to sunlight the temperature rose gradually to 65 oC., the enclosure covered with the salt plate keeping a little ahead of the other, owing to the fact that it transmitted the longer waves from the sun, which were stopped by the glass. In order to eliminate this action the sunlight was first passed through a glass plate.
One of the (many) problems with this experiment is the ambiguity of the statement above. Passed through how? If glass directly atop the salt, it would render the two boxes effectively identical. Lots and lots of problems with the experiment itself, but how does one discuss it without knowing what the exact setup was?

Mike M
February 6, 2013 12:49 pm

I’m confused by the use of units of radiated flux. Conservation of energy would be measured as watts versus watts not watts/m^2 versus watts/m^2? Consider what happens as the size of the shell is increased to infinity?

Captain Dave
February 6, 2013 12:49 pm

Figure 2 text probably should be
“the planet and the shell have nearly the same surface area”

Joe Public
February 6, 2013 12:50 pm

But in Diag 2, the steel shell has a much greater surface area than the core.

Sarge
February 6, 2013 12:53 pm

I hate to have to point this out, but your math on the 2nd diagram does not work.
Any possible shell around any possible sphere is going to have a surface area larger than the sphere it contains, so you cannot just split the “w/m^2” as seen on the (smaller) planet’s surface in half, and assume the same sum. The outer shell is larger, so the watts per METER SQUARED must be proportionately lower to get the total energy sums correct.
I may just be an engineer, not a scientist… but I can add.

Joe Public
February 6, 2013 12:54 pm

i.e. if the core emits 235 W/m2 and the shell is say 10% greater area, its outward emission will be 211.5W/m2.

Silver Ralph
February 6, 2013 12:56 pm

Ohh, Willis, you are inviting more posts from those who say that cooler bodies cannot transmit to warmer bodies (once again, yawn).
For those about to post such comments consider this:
There is a coolish radiator, emitting a small amount of infrared heat into a cold room. Then, another warmer radiator is placed in the room, a meter or so from the cooler radiator. Does the cooler radiator suddenly stop emitting infrared? And why would it do so?
(The cooler radiator does, of course, continue emitting just as before.)
.

February 6, 2013 1:00 pm

Willis: This is a classic case of – “People’s ability to extrapolate FAR beyond any justifiable level” from one set of observations to another. I personally have NEVER considered Dr. Wood’s experiment to indicate ANYTHING OTHER than the conclusion that the “mechanism of action” of an actual GREENHOUSE is that of a “convective boundary”. It is interesting to note that YOUR theory of the importance of the virtually “unlimited” convection mechanisms in the REAL atmosphere leads to the “thunderstorm thermostat” conclusion.
Just as an aside on Dr. Wood’s GENERAL GENIUS is to point out his “rotating table liquid mercury lens” experiment, which allowed him to take photos of GALAXIES well before Eddington identified them in the 1930’s. (The disadvantage was that there was about a 5 degree (steradian) arc which could be covered by any apparatus set up anywhere in the world.) It cost MARKEDLY less than the Mt. Polomar telescope, however!
Max

Joe Sixpack
February 6, 2013 1:01 pm

This is stupid on stilts:
In order for the greenhouse effect to function, the shell has to be thermally isolated from the surface so that the temperatures of the two can differ substantially. If the atmosphere or other means efficiently transfers surface heat to the shell there will be very little difference in temperature between the two.
Yes. Just like a real greenhouse with atmosphere and everything.
That experiment doesn’t tell you much because you’re not capable of interpreting it correctly.

crosspatch
February 6, 2013 1:02 pm

The experiment is done completely wrong anyway. To properly illustrate the “greenhouse” effect, Wood SHOULD have placed a brick inside each box with a temperature measurement device at the center of the brick. Shine the light until the center of both bricks stabilizes in temperature. Then turn off the lights expose both boxes to a clear cold sky, and record the rate at which the temperature drops in the center of each brick. Greenhouse effect is mainly a nighttime effect, not a daytime.

davidmhoffer
February 6, 2013 1:06 pm

Problem #1
The troposphere ranges in thickness from 8km to 16km, Using 14km as an average, and a putative ghe of 33 degrees, that’s about 0.0023 degrees per meter. The apparatus used glass thermometers from 1906, suggesting an accuracy of perhaps 0.2 degrees at best. The boxes would have to have been about 1,000 meters on a side just to be big enough to produce enough ghe that it could even be measured by the apparatus used.

mikerossander
February 6, 2013 1:07 pm

I am struggling with your thought-experiment because it seems to imply that you could raise the temperature of the planet to any arbitrarily high level by wrapping it in additional shells of steel. That is, if instead of wrapping your hypothetical planet in one steel shell, you used two nested shells, the outer shell would still stabilize at 235, the inner shell would stabilize at 470 and the planet would stabilize at 705. Keep adding shells until the inner-most steel melts. Yet the energy source, 235 W/m2, never changes. Am I understanding that correctly?
That would be a simple experiment to test in any good vacumn system. In fact, if true you’d expect the effect to be a significant source of difficulty in evacuated experiments. It’s been a long time since I did any experiments in a vacumn lab but I don’t remember having to make any such adjustments.

davidmhoffer
February 6, 2013 1:07 pm

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh!
100 meters on a side.

February 6, 2013 1:11 pm

Silver Ralph,
You just flunked your first hourly in Thermo. The cooler radiator would be warmed by the warmer radiator, and begin radiating more. If you think this would warm the warmer radiator, then you will fail all your hourlies and never get through school.
Wilis, Joe Public has it exactly right. If you want to know what happens to the flux from a cooler source when it hits a warmer source, the answer is exactly nothing. It is not absorbed, but immediately re-emitted, transferring NO heat.
All these analogies are amusing but ignore Second Law.

Bill Thomson
February 6, 2013 1:13 pm

To those who think the math in Figure 2 does not work: Please read the caption under Figure 2 as well as reading the picture.

February 6, 2013 1:15 pm

It may be worth a revisit to Perpetuum Mobile WUWT Eschenbach Jan 19, 2012.
Rp = radius of Planet
Rs = radius of Shell.
Tsi, Tso = temp of Shell, inside and outside
Tp = temp of Planet.
By your setup, Rs > Re.
Tsi = Tso, since both are radiating the same energy flux.
By this, I conclude that the thermal conductivity of shell is very high and/or the shell is very thin.
Tp > Tsi (assuming black body).
As we reduce Rs to approach Rp in the limit, then Tp > Tsi and an infinite temperature gradiant which seems to be a logical impossibility.
You would agree, wouldn’t you that if the planet had no radioactive core, then Tp would have to equal Tsi. Yet the addition of a tiny radioactive energy source is now able to raise Tp to a level where it has twice the radiant flux as Tsi.
Doesn’t Tsi have to be a function of (Rs/Rp)^1/4?

mikerossander
February 6, 2013 1:15 pm

To Mike M, Joe Public and Sarge – Energy is conserved and yes, you could reframe the entire example in watts instead of watts per square meter. It is irrelevant to the thought-experiment, however, because you can make the shell arbitrarily small as long as it is infinitesimally separated from the planet. The effect would be identical if the shell were one millimeter out rather than the severely exaggerated separation shown in Figure 2. And while that one-millimeter increase in radius would increase the surface area very slightly, it’s WAY below the rounding error of the system.

Massimo PORZIO
February 6, 2013 1:19 pm

@Silver Ralph
Your example is not pertinent, the two radiators are two different sources of energy in the room. Very different than asserts that the exterior sphere warmed by the inner one can warm more that last.
M
“Consider what happens as the size of the shell is increased to infinity?”
And consider what happens as the size of the shell is the one of the inner sphere plus just an atomic layer?
Uhmmm… Still skeptic

KevinM
February 6, 2013 1:22 pm

A few typos, but correct to my understanding of heat transfer.
The difference in surface area of the actual atmosphere and the earth below it is not very big, and accounting for it would not change the argument. Integral over the surfaces of both would be equal number of Watts regardless of size.
So Co2 AGW is real. The point to argue is that it is benign, and probably swamped by larger natural variability over short and long time scales.

Bryan
February 6, 2013 1:27 pm

The Greenhouse Effect goes missing on certain nights at Penn State University.
This is an interesting paper especially as it comes from a source with no “spin” on the AGW debate.
The way I read the paper is it gives strong support for the conclusions of the famous Woods experiment.
Basically the project was to find if it made any sense to add Infra Red absorbers to polyethylene plastic for use in agricultural plastic greenhouses.
Polyethylene is IR transparent like the Rocksalt used in Woods Experiment.
The addition of IR absorbers to the plastic made it equivalent to “glass”
The results of the study show that( Page2 )
…”IR blocking films may occasionally raise night temperatures” (by less than 1.5C) “the trend does not seem to be consistent over time”
Conclusion is that it makes almost no difference whether the material radiates or not.
http://www.hort.cornell.edu/hightunnel/about/research/general/penn_state_plastic_study.pdf

MarkB
February 6, 2013 1:33 pm

There’s no sense trying to engage the sky dragon nutters on an intellectual basis.

KevinM
February 6, 2013 1:35 pm

The steel shell analogy does break down when you consider the atmosphere as a fluid instead of a solid.
Hot and cold air units circulate.Hot moves farther from the surface. The farther a unit of atmosphere gets from the surface, the less the earth obstructs its radiation into space. – just like your hand blocks more or less light as you move it closer or farther from your eyes.
Net result: Atmosphere is less reflective than a steel shell, and also because it circulates.

BigDon
February 6, 2013 1:35 pm

It’s been 30 or so years since I studied heat transfer in engineering school, but I seem to recall radiation heat transfer being proportional to delta-T to the fourth power, hence the shell would be radiating much (much!) more IR out to (nearly) absolute zero space than to the warmer planet surface. And as for the radiators-in-a-room example, I do believe that there indeed would be no IR radiated from the cooler unit to the warmer unit, but just in that particular direction — exactly at the points normal to the warmer radiator. I believe it would continue to emit IR in all other directions, however.

eo
February 6, 2013 1:37 pm

The biosphere is still in existing. I think the University of Arizona is operating it. Why not just carry out an experiment on the effect of various carbon dioxide concentration on the temperature inside the sphere. The experiment could be a super simplification but at least there will be some empirical data rather than all the computer models and assumptions.

February 6, 2013 1:50 pm

Your diagram appears to be missing a glass plate that covered both enclosures to stop IR_in being a confounding factor. The relevent quote is
“In order to eliminate this action the sunlight was first passed through a glass plate.”

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