Guest post by Dr. Tim Ball
In a comment on the WUWT article about the abject failure of UKMO weather forecasts, “Slingo Pretends She Knows Why It’s Been So Wet!”, Doug Huffman wrote, “Each forecast must be accompanied by the appropriate retro-cast record of previous casts” (January 6, 2013 at 7:06 am). I pointed out years ago that Environment Canada (EC) publishes such information. They expose a similar horrendous story of absolute failure. This likely indicates why it is not done by others, but provides adequate justification for significantly reducing the role of the agency.
Both EC and UKMO predictions fail. The failure parallels Richard Feynman’s comment.
It doesn’t matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are. If it doesn’t agree with experiment, it’s wrong.
If your prediction (forecast) is wrong; your science is wrong. Unlike the IPCC, they cannot avoid the problem by calling them projections, not predictions. They can and do avoid accountability.
Initially I thought EC was admirable for publishing results. Now I realize it only shows arrogance and sense of unaccountability: we fail, but you must listen, act, and keep paying. It underscores the hypocrisy of what they do. More important, it shows why they and all national weather agencies must be proscribed. It is time to reduce all national weather offices to data collection agencies. When bureaucrats do research it is political by default. The objective rapidly becomes job preservation; perpetuate and expand rather than solve the problem.
EC is a prime example of why Maurice Strong set up the IPCC through the World Meteorological Organization (WMO) and member national weather agencies. EC participated and actively promoted the failed work of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) from the start. An Assistant Deputy Minister (ADM) of EC chaired the founding meeting of the IPCC in Villach Austria in 1985. It continues, as they sent a large delegation to the recent Doha conference on climate change. Their web site promotes IPCC work as the basis for all policy on energy and environment. They brag about their role as a world class regulator. All this despite the fact their own evidence shows the complete inadequacy of their work.
They display their failures on maps. Pick any map or period and it shows how a coin toss would achieve better or at least comparable results. Here is their caption for the maps.
” The upper panel shows the seasonal air temperature or precipitation anomaly forecasts. The forecast are presented in 3 categories: below normal, near normal and above normal. The lower panel illustrates the skill (percent correct) associated to the forecast.”
The maps are for temperature and precipitation for 12, 6 and 1-3 months.
Everyone knows that regional weather forecasts are notoriously unreliable, especially beyond 48 hours. This fact weakened the credibility of the IPCC predictions with the public from the start. Some supporters of the IPCC position tried to counteract the problem by saying that climate forecasts were different from weather forecasts. It is a false argument. Climate is the average of the weather, so if the weather science is wrong the climate science is wrong.
Some experts acknowledge that regional climate forecasts are no better than short term weather forecasts. New Scientist reports that Tim Palmer, a leading climate modeler at the European Centre for Medium – Range Weather Forecasts in Reading England saying, “I don’t want to undermine the IPCC, but the forecasts, especially for regional climate change, are immensely uncertain.” In an attempt to claim some benefit, we’re told, “…he does not doubt that the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) has done a good job alerting the world to the problem of global climate change. But he and his fellow climate scientists are acutely aware that the IPCC’s predictions of how the global change will affect local climates are little more than guesswork. The IPCC have deliberately misled the world about the nature, cause and threat of climate change and deceived about the accuracy of their predictions (projections), for a political agenda.
Some claim the failures are due to limited computer capacity. It makes no difference. The real problems are inadequate data, lack of understanding of most major mechanisms, incorrect assumptions, and a determination to prove instead of falsify the AGW hypothesis.
Einstein’s definition, “Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results” applies. However, EC do the same thing over and over with results that indicate failure yet fail to make adjustments as the scientific method requires. What is more amazing and unacceptable is they use public money, are essentially unaccountable yet demand the public and politicians change their energy and economic policies. On their web site, they state; “The Government of Canada supports an aggressive approach to climate change that achieves real environmental and economic benefits for all Canadians.” They could begin by reducing EC to data collection. Their failures are more than enough to justify termination in any other endeavour. Another is their involvement and political promotion of well documented IPCC corruption.
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In re “It should be blazingly clear by now that “democracy” has failed. Only absolute dictators can rule competently.(Polistra, January 8, 2013 at 4:14 am)”
I believe that it is our expectations of government and democracy, and our narrow definition of democracy that have failed. Please understand the sortition of the democracy that produced the giant civilization of Ancient Greece, upon whose shoulders we stand – tiptoe as we try to keep our noses above the rising waters of demotic ignorance.
Please also read Jonathan Zittrain’s The Future of the Internet – And How To Stop It, for his discussion of “rule competently.” http://futureoftheinternet.org/static/ZittrainTheFutureoftheInternet.pdf In a word, you and we do not want competent rule for its thoughtless zero-tolerance prior restraint. “Jonathan Zittrain is a Professor of Law at Harvard Law School, and faculty co-director of the Berkman Center for Internet & Society at Harvard University.”
richard telford says: @ur momisugly January 8, 2013 at 3:33 am
This is a particularly clueless argument….
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No it is not. Meteorological Organizations and Climate Scientists have set themselves up as all-seeing prophets who see the future and warn governments that they MUST ACT NOW! or there will be CATASTROPHE! The USA is in the process of dismantling her economy completely based on this Predictions
For example Dr. James Hansen says a multi-meter sea level rise is possible this century
The climate models all have the same underlying assumptions.
The Empirical proof of these models assumptions is seen in the short term forecasts made by the bureaucratic member national weather agencies that belong to the World Meteorological Organization (WMO)
You can not deny the link between the short term forecasting models and the long term models used by the IPCC.
It is a Catch-22
A.) If the member national weather agencies use the IPCC assumptions the weather forecasts are flat out WRONG.
B.) If they do not use the IPCC assumptions, they prove they think the IPCC is full of bovine feces.
So Richard, which is it? A or B those are the only two choices. Except for the third choice, of course – The IPCC and the national weather agencies don’t know what the frecking heck they are doing.
Pick One!
Typhoon says:
January 8, 2013 at 4:21 am
————————
If you take an ensemble of model runs, each initiated with different initial values, the output will be markedly different in the short term, but the mean state after several decades won’t vary much between runs. In the long term it is the uncertainly in the boundary conditions that dominate. Most IPCC climate model runs are not initiated from observations, but from a long run in.
Only if you are interested in predictions for the next decade are initial values very important. These models currently have little skill.
——–
Dr (or is it Mr?) Richard S Courtney, I get the distinct impression that your knowledge and understanding of climate does not progress past Genesis 8:22.
Adrian Kerton says:
January 8, 2013 at 3:15 am
Very interesting, for irony^2 😉
I have it on good authority that this year ‘temps will be well above normals’ and have no reason to doubt – so the MO getting a prediction 180 degrees wrong once more would be my main bet in 2013. The shame being that it will mess with our nice run of flat-to-down trends if it turns out that way and the shrill and scared will make it difficult to talk quietly amongst ourselves.
Then though, it starts to get colder.
I just read Réaumur’s transcript (thank you) and the creature Harrabin couldn’t wait to get his excuses in – just as we have been saying for years – if it gets colder or stays mild they will claim that ‘natural causes’ are merely delaying the return of CO2-geddon and there is absolutely no reason to stop being very afraid, believing your government departments and paying here, here and here.
Adrian Kerton says: Today, 8th Jan at 08.00 on UK Radio 4 news “The met office says it does not believe global warming will be as severe as it had previously predicted.”
Audio below,
http://s446.photobucket.com/albums/qq187/bobclive/?action=view¤t=Rec013.mp4
Thanks for the transcript, Reamur..!
To paraphrase Roger Harrabin’s last sentence: ‘I’ve got to state that mainstream climate scientists say that ‘natural cooling factors’ will change, driving temperatures up again, otherwise our theories are not worth a pitcher of warm spit…’
I don’t see a problem with trying to predict the weather or climate (even with government funding), but the problem is that such research must be (for now at least) akin to blue-sky research: “we can’t predict the weather now, and we may never be able to, but I know we won’t be able to unless we try”.
Further, I suspect that if such research were ever to succeed, truly accurate weather predictions would be a great boon to vast numbers of people all over the world.
So, I’m happy to pay for the Met Office to crunch its numbers, but less happy when it tells me how to live my life on the basis on bad number crunching – to put it mildly.
To produce a valid model, one needs to understand what one is modeling. Climate modeling is an exercise in futility, and in the hands of the AGW crowd it is a public nuisance and threat to the well-being of humankind.
Marginally off-topic, but relevant
I’m intrigued by a notice alongside the stream below Bodiam Castle in Kent – presumably written by some well-meaning soul about 15 years ago at the height of the ‘global warming’ hyperbole.
It states that you are advised to enjoy the river bank and associated views, because ‘in 50 years time this will all be under water due to sea level rise..’
The stream, of course, still meanders serenely past…. (give or take the odd recent flooding of the associated floodplain)…
I think a comment similar to this got booted into the ether:
richard telford says:
January 8, 2013 at 3:33 am
….This is is a particularly clueless argument….
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No it is not.
Starting from the quote.
It is obvious the climate models of the member national weather agencies are based on the same assumptions as the IPCC climate models. The short term forecasts from these models therefore provide empirical proof as to the correctness of those assumptions. Those short term forecasts FAIL, thereby providing real world proof the assumptions upon which all these models are based are incorrect.
This leads to a Catch-22 situation for you.
A.) All the models are based on the same assumptions and therefore real world testing shows they fail.
B.) Short term models are based on other assumptions which means the member national weather agencies acknowledged that the IPCC assumptions are bovine feces and are trying to come up with something that actually works..
So Richard, take you pick which is it? A or B? Of course there is a third option,
C.) None of them know what the freckin’ heck they are doing and are just playing with the computers at our expense.
Adrian Kerton says: Today, 8th Jan at 08.00 on UK Radio 4 news “The met office says it does not believe global warming will be as severe as it had previously predicted.”
Audio below,
http://s446.photobucket.com/albums/qq187/bobclive/?action=view¤t=Rec013.mp4
I’m wondering how much longer the likes of Roger Harrabin will find themselves in ‘gainful’ employment as Environment correspondents..
I hear Macdonald’s are recruiting…….
This is a comment strictly on how the PC(%) numbers on the charts may be intended to be interpreted. The lowest (gray: 0-40%) areas are said to be “Not significantly better than chance”. Does that not mean that the forecasts in these places were the 50/50% variety with no benefit received from the EC forecast? That would mean that the higher (41-100%) areas are where the EC forecast was beating the 50/50 coin toss, i.e. 50% on their scale would mean 50% better than chance, or 75% accurate forecast (or some percentage like that). This would also mean that they need to define how close an actual had to be to the forecast to be considered accurate, e.g. within 1 degree or within 2% or some such allowance for a near miss.
Is this a case of ambiguous data presentation or is it just me?
Not that it should matter in a discussion on how to read these graphics, but I am in the 95% sceptic range on man made global warming being a “problem” and wish Dr. Bell all the best in his work.
Adrian Kerton says: “Today, 8th Jan at 08.00 on UK Radio 4 news ‘The met office says it does not believe global warming will be as severe as it had previously predicted.’ Nothing on the BBC website though.”
Tallbloke posted about that and then I expanded on it a few days ago:
http://bobtisdale.wordpress.com/2013/01/06/ukmo-lowers-5-year-global-temperature-forecast-and-omits-the-second-5-years-of-the-decadal-forecast/
Regards
.
richard telford:
I think a better analogy is to consider a sequence such as the following:
a1 = 1 a2 = 1 an+2 = an+1 + an:
1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 …
To calculate say the 1000th number in this sequence you have to start at the beginning of the sequence, but your analogy is to just guess and then justify our guess by claiming something called “boundary conditions”.
Recall that in September 2009 UN SecGen Ban Ki-moon demanded an immediate transfer payment of $10-trillion (yes, trillion) to his ensconced kleptocrats, lest Planet Earth become a baking desert by January 2010.
As the UN’s ward-heeling thug-meisters spiral ever downwards, the fact that “Railroad Bill” Rajendra K. Pachauri e’en yet squats above the IPCC’s one-holer is prima facie evidence of these bodies’ criminally negligent malfeasance.
Having excreted reigning U.S. munchkins by 2016 if not before, we suspect that by c. 2018 Moonies and Pachauri alike will see their RICO enterprise become roadkill on two-lane, unpaved, public-sector tracks. Can’t happen soon enough.
Re the bon mot attributed to Niels Bohr, “Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future,” and also credited above to Yogi Berra (my impression, too), I did a quick Internet search and came up with this letter to The Economist:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/theinbox/2007/07/the_perils_of_prediction_june
In other words, the origin is definitively unknown—just like the course of weather, and climate.
/Mr Lynn
Correction: I wish Dr. Ball all the best,
(mistake for Dr. Bell must have been my Canadian subconscious kicking in w.r.t. Alexander Graham Bell)
It really doesn’t matter if you relegate them to data collection if it is still staffed by activists. You still couldn’t trust the data.
A fascinating observation, this difference in ‘methodological paradigms’ explains how ostensibly intelligent scientists can become intractably wedded to an overarching belief (where ‘belief’ is the right word) in the rightness of the Climatist ’cause’ (cf. Climategate II) and the utter irrelevance of the contrary evidence and arguments propounded by ‘deniers’.
It is easy enough to deride the Climatists as ‘true believers’ (viz. Eric Hoffer), but hard to understand how real scientists, buried in data-intensive research, can latch onto glib and easily falsifiable conclusions, simply on the strength of one idee fixé, namely the theoretical ability of one trace gas to ‘trap’ heat in the atmosphere. I have always assumed it was a result of ideological blinders, an overriding desire to right the wrongs of Western civilization and cure the ills wrought by mankind on the Planet. But that seemed an implausible leap of faith for real scientists to make. Bob Ryan has perhaps shown how the more thoughtful among the Climatists may rationalize that leap philosophically, by turning empirical science on its head.
/Mr Lynn
@richard telford 3:33am
I see climate as the average of the weather. From a statistical standpoint weather is akin to the prediction interval, climate is the confidence interval. Has nothing to do with initial values or “boundry” conditions. It’s
just how we describe the individual data and summary statistics.
We all know the climate next summer will be hot and muggy in Philly. How hot and how muggy and specifically which days will be the hottest is anyone’s guess.
David says:
January 8, 2013 at 6:26 am
“. . . a notice alongside the stream below Bodiam Castle . . .”
You have alerted a bureaucrat that someone is watching. If you have not taken a photo and documented the date of placement of this sign, please do so immediately. The thing will be “disappeared” in 3, 2 ,1 days.
For years I have been frustrated with the inaccurate forecasts from Environment Canada. In the very short range (24-48 hours) they are generally OK, but I found that forecasts from, for example, weather.com and WeatherBell are more reliable. On top of that most Canadian radio and TV stations and newspapers pick up the Environment Canada forecasts, making it difficult to hear an alternative unless you go digging for one.
Richard Telford confuses randomness with chaos. That is not uncommon but doing so while insulting another individual only serves to make the perpetrator look very foolish indeed.
richard telford says:
January 8, 2013 at 3:33 am
As an imperfect analogy, predicting a toss of a coin from the angular velocity and momentum is difficult – small errors in the initial estimates of the parameters will rapidly escalate and cause errors. In contrast, estimating the distribution of head and tails is much easier.
===========
Your understanding of statistics is incorrect. A coin toss is predictable in the long term because it has a constant mean and distribution. This type of distribution is not typical of time series data such as weather, climate or the stock market. Such data is not predictable using the law of large numbers or the central limit theorem, given our current understanding of mathematics.
In effect climate is a coin that is constantly changing shape, each time you toss it. All one can say with any certainty about climate is that it will get warmer, colder, or will stay about the same.