The potential impact of volcanic overprinting of the Eddy Minimum

Guest post by David Archibald

There were five named solar minima in the last millennium – the Oort, Wolf, Spörer, Maunder and Dalton minima. At least the last four were all associated with cold climates. The astrophysics community has elected to name the current period of low solar activity the Eddy Minimum. John A. Eddy was an American astronomer who compiled data demonstrating the periods of low solar activity prior to the Dalton Minimum. The Eddy Minimum will include at least Solar Cycles 24 and 25, and could continue until late in the 21st Century.

Benjamin Franklin was the first to suggest that volcanic eruptions might affect climate, in a 1784 communication to the Literary and Philosophical Association of Manchester:

“During several of the summer months of 1783, when the effect of the sun’s rays to heat the earth in these northern regions should have been greatest, there existed a constant fog over all of Europe, and a great part of North America. This fog was of a permanent nature; it was dry, and the rays of the sun seemed to have little effect toward dissipating it, as they easily do to a moist fog, arising from water. They were indeed rendered so faint in passing through it, that when collected in the focus of a burning glass, they would scarce kindle brown paper. Of course, their summer effect in heating the earth was exceedingly diminished.

Hence the surface was early frozen.

Hence the first snows remained on it unmelted, and received continual additions.

Hence the air was more chilled, and the winds more severely cold.

Hence perhaps the winter of 1783-84 was more severe, than any that had happened for many years.

Benjamin Franklin was referring to the Laki eruption in Iceland of 1783. This was accompanied by an abnormally hot summer in Europe and then an exceptionally cold winter in Europe, the United States and Japan. In the United States, Charleston Harbour froze and the Mississippi River froze at New Orleans between 13th and 19th February, 1784. When this logjam of ice broke up, ships encountered ice flows in the Gulf of Mexico 100 km south of the delta. The famine in Iceland caused by the Laki eruption killed 24 percent of the population.

In the second half of the Modern Warm Period, when solar activity was at its highest for 8,000 years, there was one volcanic eruption large enough to affect climate. This was the eruption of Mt Pinatubo in the Philippines starting on 15th June, 1991. It ejected 10 cubic kilometres of magma and 20 million tonnes of sulphur dioxide. The aerosols it injected into the stratosphere lowered the global temperature by 0.5°C in 1992, with a peak effect of 0.7°C. The impact on agriculture though was not significant. Some wheat farmers in the northern part of the Canadian wheat belt found that the cool growing conditions didn’t allow their crops to mature in time before winter set in. They resorted to using Roundup to make hay from their standing wheat crops.

When major eruptions are overprinted on a period of cold climate, the effect is far more severe. As John A. Eddy said in reference to the Mount Tambora eruption of 10th April, 1815, “The unusual summer of 1816 is commonly attributed to the increase in atmospheric turbidity that followed the eruption of Mount Tambora. The awesome eruption occurred, in fact, during a span of several decades of colder climate that had interrupted the gradual global warming that followed seventeenth century extrema of the Little Ice Age. These background trends may well explain a particularly severe seasonal response in 1816 to a short-term injection of volcanic dust.”

The impact on climate and agriculture of the Mount Tambora eruption on the North-eastern United States is reasonably well documented. The current great grain producing area of the United States is 1,100 kilometres to the west. Nevertheless, what happened in the north-eastern states two hundred years ago is a good proxy for how the Corn Belt will respond to a major volcanic eruption during a climatic cool period. Visitors to the mid-western states in that period noted mid-summer frosts up to the mid-19th Century.

William R. Baron compiled the weather record of the north-eastern United States in his paper contained in the book “The Year Without a Summer? World Climate in 1816”:

“The year began, at least in Phillipstown, Massachusetts, with enough snow on the ground for sleighing. All over New England, January was a snowy, stormy month until the very end when a sudden thaw caused localised flooding such as the one reported by Isaiah Thomas at Worcester, Massachusetts on 23rd January where some mill dams were carried off and some items stored in a warehouse were destroyed. According to among others, Leonard Hill of East Bridgewater, Massachusetts, February was a mild and pleasant month with only three snows reported. By the beginning of March there was little deep snow anywhere with the exception of most of northern New England. Early March was clear and cold, and was followed by a series of three snow storms around mid-month that produced a few days of sleighing but soon melted. On 28th and 30th March, warm air returned producing thunder and lightning as reported by Elijah Kellogg at Portland, Maine and Thomas at Worcester.

April quickly turned cold again with frequent frosts and some snow. However, by 14th April, there was little snow left at Hallowell, Maine. By 19th April, Alexander Miller of Wallingford, Vermont had begun to plough his fields; Stephen Longfellow of Gorham, Maine was already planting wheat; and Theodore Lincoln of Dennysville (in far down-east Maine) was reporting ice-out on the local streams – a sure sign of coming spring. At the end of the month, Joshua Lane of Sanbornton, New Hampshire already was reporting the start of a drought that would later plague all of northern New England.

In early May, farmers throughout the region completed planting their major crop, corn. By mid-month, the weather had become “backward” with a “heavy black frost’ that froze the ground to at least one-half inch reported on 15th May as far south as Trenton, New Jersey. Miller, at Wallingford, Vermont, reported snow on 14, 17 and 29 May while Lane, over at Sanbornton, saw a large frost on 29th May, and ended the month with further complaints about the continuing drought. B.F. Robbins, visiting Concord, New Hampshire noted that May ended with two days of “remarkable cold” that froze the ground “to near an inch.”

June is the month most remembered for its outbreak of cold weather. On 4th June, there were frosts at Wallingford, Vermont and Norfolk, Connecticut. By 5th June, the cold front was reported over most of northern New England. On 6th June, snow was reported at Albany, New York and Dennysville, Maine, and there were killing frosts at Fairfield, Connecticut. 7th June brought reports of severe killing frosts from across the region, and as far south as Trenton, New Jersey.

Typical of comments by diarists concerning this day are those by George W. Featherstonehaugh of Albany, New York, who wrote that the frost killed most of the fruit, as many apple trees were then just finishing blossoming. Leaves on most of the trees were “blasted” by the cold. Corn and vegetable crops were injured. He also feared that many of the sheep that had just been sheared might die of cold.

Cold weather continued through the night of 10th June. By the end of the month most observers were reporting the return of warm weather, but by then most crops were either killed or “backward” and stunted in their growth. In northern New England, those crops that survived the frosts were hit by what was now a very serious drought, greatly reducing the production

of one of the area’s primary crops, hay.

In early July there was another outbreak of cold weather in northern New England. On 5th July, at Gorham, Maine, there was a very hard frost. Benjamin Kimball of Concord, New Hampshire and Thomas Robbins of Norfolk, Connecticut reported hard frost on 7th July. There was frost on 8th July at Portland, Maine and on the following day at Sanbornton, New Hampshire. Thereafter the cold held off for the remainder of the month. Dry conditions, generally reported earlier in northern areas, persisted throughout the entire month.

Frosts returned on the morning of 21st August, being reported at York and Portland, Maine and Wallingford, Vermont. By 22nd August hard frosts were noted all over the region and as far south as Trenton where buckwheat crops were killed. Thomas, at Worcester, Massachusetts, reported that these frosts “cut off Indian corn in many places”, while others such as Hill at East Bridgewater, Massachusetts observed that frosts did little or no damage.

The frosts continued into September. In northern New England there were frosts on 10th and 11th September and throughout New England during 25th to 27th September. On 28th September, there was a killing frost throughout the region extending as far south as Trenton. It killed any vegetation that had somehow survived to that date. The drought in northern New England was finally broken by rains in the last week of the month.

The remainder of autumn was very mild with very few snowfalls or storms. December was also mild, until the last 10 days or so, when it turned cold enough to freeze the harbour at Beverley, Massachusetts. The year ended as it began, with enough snow on the ground at Phillipstown, Massachusetts to use a sleigh.”

1816 had an extremely short growing season. In southern Maine, it had averaged 140 days up until then but plunged to 70 days in 1816. Consequently farmers experienced an almost total failure of major crops. There was a fair yield of winter grain, but other crops such as corn and hay failed leading to the loss of many sheep and cattle for lack of feed during the following winter. As a result, 1816 has come down to as the “cold year”, “the famine year” and ‘eighteen hundred and froze to death”. For eastern Massachusetts, 1816 is the only year in which young corn was killed in the spring after it had sprouted and in which corn that survived replanting was killed in the autumn, before it could reach maturity. Under these circumstances, it is safe to assume that in most places in New England corn crops were an almost total failure. The story for 1816 is the same for New Hampshire and Maine. There were a number of periods in which corn crops were hit by late spring or early autumn frosts. Particularly difficult periods include: 1793-96, 1812-17, and 1835-36.

The effect of the Mount Tambora eruption is also well documented in Europe. From 1813 to 1815, harvests were generally lower than expected. However, 1816 was a year of calamity for most of the continent. Spring saw heavy rains which were followed by snow in June and July that caused widespread harvest failures. Wheat yields in France, England and Ireland were at least 75 percent lower than at the beginning of that decade. Wholesale wheat and rye prices responded by roughly doubling in 1817 across the continent. The area affected the most was southern Germany where prices increased by three hundred percent by the period May to June of 1817. In Germany and Switzerland, people resorted to eating rats, cats, grass and straw as well as their own horses and watchdogs. This was the last great subsistence crisis of western civilisation.

The climate of Switzerland in 1816 inspired Mary Shelley to write the novel Frankenstein and her host, Lord Byron, to write his poem Darkness in July of that year. The first nine lines of the poem give a sense of what the days were like:

I had a dream, which was not all a dream.
The bright sun was extinguish’d, and the stars
Did wander darkling in the eternal space,
Rayless, and pathless, and the icy earth
Swung blind and blackening in the moonless air;
Morn came and went–and came, and brought no day,
And men forgot their passions in the dread
Of this their desolation; and all hearts
Were chill’d into a selfish prayer for light

With a solar activity now falling away and return to cold climate conditions imminent, it would be a useful exercise to calculate what would happen to American crop yields using the year-by-year climate conditions of the first half of the 19th Century. This would give an indication of the size of the problem. It could be that grain production might fall 60 percent from what it is now in the event of a major volcanic eruption during the Eddy Minimum. No American need starve if they were happy to live on a diet that was mostly corn and soybeans. The price of meat would skyrocket and a large portion of the national herd of lot-fed cattle and pigs would be slaughtered to avoid the cost of feeding them. Grain production in Canada in an 1816-type year would be wiped out completely. An indication of what would happen to food pricing and availability is the price response of oats in the north-eastern United States in 1816, which rose from 12 cents a bushel to 92 cents a bushel.

A repeat of the climate experience of 1816 in the world’s temperate region grain belts would most likely result in almost all of the grain exporting countries ceasing exports in order to conserve grain for domestic consumption. The effect on countries currently importing grain would go beyond calamity to catastrophe. The resultant mass starvation event would become the largest event in human history.

Current grain stocks carried by countries around the world assume that tomorrow will be much the same as today. As at year-end 2012, total world grain stocks were estimated to have been 328 million tonnes, which equates to 21% of annual demand. The days of the continuous benign climate of the second half of the 20th Century, due to the highest solar activity for the last 8,000 years, are now past. Perhaps continuing cooling over the rest of this decade will suggest to some that it would be prudent to plan on the basis that the climate for grain growing will continue to get worse, before there is another major volcanic eruption. Absence of planning could be considered as a suicidal tendency. Major volcanic eruptions occur about every 45 years on average. At the present, in the year 2013, with the oceans warmer than they have been for 800 years, the chance of a Mount Tambora-like eruption causing another mass famine is very slight. The world will be much cooler by 2020 though, and with an average period between eruptions of 45 years the chance of any individual year witnessing a mass famine event after 2020 will be about two percent. The cumulative chance rises to near 40 percent for the period 2020 to 2040. The world may dodge that bullet. Or it may not. Cold-driven reductions in grain supply will be quite distressing even to those who are fully prepared. The unprepared will become quite dead.

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Gail Combs
January 8, 2013 2:51 pm

For those interested here is an Interview with Dr. Harry Van Loon who was one of the co-authors of the above paper link He is an interesting guy.

January 8, 2013 2:56 pm

Richdo says:
January 8, 2013 at 2:47 pm
“may confute an Opinion without railing at Them that hold it;”
Tell tallbloke that…

January 8, 2013 3:11 pm

Leif Svalgaard says:
January 8, 2013 at 11:37 am
“Extrapolation is not valid prediction.”
……
Of course you can say anything you like, but this extrapolation appears to work http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/SSN.htm
Despite NASA’s top people (Dr. Hathaway & Dr. Dicpati) at the time said ‘we expect SC24 to be strongest ever’.

GlynnMhor
January 8, 2013 4:00 pm

Eruptions of El Chichon in the 1980s and Agung in the 1960s had effects on the climate comparable to that of Pinatubo.

January 8, 2013 4:02 pm

vukcevic says:
January 8, 2013 at 3:11 pm
“Extrapolation is not valid prediction.”
Of course you can say anything you like, but this extrapolation appears to work

Looks bad to me, but even if it looked good, it is still not valid prediction.

Stephen Walters
January 8, 2013 4:37 pm

Bob Kutz says:
January 8, 2013 at 2:16 pm
As to all of the naysayers out there; Landscheidt proposed to name the current minimum after himself, all the while promulgating the notion that he understood how climate worked, based on solar cycles and making lavish predictions that haven’t really proven skillful as of yet
This is what it says in Wikipedia, but I can find no reference to Landsche*dt naming it after himself, especially in the wiki cited paper. Could you provide evidence of this claim?

john robertson
January 8, 2013 4:53 pm

There you have it, all team IPCC has to do is “find” a volcanic eruption(1989-2009) and explain its effects were multiplied in the last decade by more fairy dust, and the models were right al along.
If an enemy of the US and friends , took a long view, convincing the citizens to give up the strategic food bank would go a long way to defeating us.

January 8, 2013 5:06 pm

Eddy? Poor Landscheidt …..

January 8, 2013 5:22 pm

Leif Svalgaard said:
“Are we today to take astrology seriously? [..] of course, some people still do”
I take my own heliocentric findings very seriously, and give them a more suitable name so as to disassociate from the nonsense.

mpainter
January 8, 2013 6:05 pm

The Pompous Git says: January 8, 2013 at 12:11 pm
Never to forget that Galileo, a man much venerated in scientific circles, was a teacher of astrology for many years and rather famous for his astrological predictions that he claimed were absolutely certain.
===============================
And so, are we to honor Galileo as an astrologer?

E.M.Smith
Editor
January 8, 2013 6:50 pm

There are some good things that make “this time” different. We have faster corn, for one. Much plant breeding as gone into speed, so we now have ’45 day’ sweet corn. Not great for tortillas, but suited for man or beast to eat. Even the field corn is faster. So we don’t need 120 days between frosts any more (provided we make the right kinds of seeds in advance…)
The look of that list of weather events sounds like alternating polar cold air masses and then a bulge of gulf air coming north (but dry, as though more Mexican desert source). The “loopy jet stream”… Knowing that, we could now plan better. So when it “goes loopy” frost tolerant crops could be grown instead. Like kale and cannola. (Both brassicas – cabbage family).
There is also an interesting Indian desert corn that makes a ‘tap root’. Plant breeders are looking to move that into other faster field corns. Having a corn that is less drought damaged would be a very good thing.
So we ‘have choices’. Even for things like beans. Soy is a ‘hot season’ crop. But there are cold season beans too. Fava and peas. Just knowing to plant them instead is enough (again, provided folks start getting seeds for it now…)
Similarly, in Texas you find some folks growing sorghum instead of corn. It is able to stop growing when dry, then start up again if it gets rain. Millet does that too. So if we know rains will be more sporadic, based on which side of the loopy jet stream is overhead, we can plant more sorghum and millet that can cope with that, and less corn.
When a crop fails, a ‘catch crop’ was the traditional solution. Things like buckwheat that are more cold tolerant AND grow very fast. 40 days in some cases. Knowing that there will be more surprise frosts, farmers can stock more buckwheat seed for ‘catch crop’ use.
Basically, it isn’t about what weather comes, it is about knowing what weather will come. That is why The Weather Man is the most important guy on the TV in Farm Country… ( I grew up in farm country. Near Chico. Everybody watch the weather on TV and it was good and fairly technical – wind charts, rainfall amounts in inches, frosts and areas. The works. I imagine most of that has moved to the internet now.)
Knowing that sporadic crop failures will be more frequent, and over larger areas, we can also store more food ‘for the bad times’. This had gotten me through a 7.x quake, and several job outages (not to mention not needing to run to the store to bet sugar, flour, tea… when someone suddenly discovers the pantry empty at 10 pm…) As our governments seem brain dead on this, I suggest doing your own. It’s cheap and easy:
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/food-storage-systems/
If you garden (heck, even if you farm, knowing you can keep frozen seeds for years can cut wastage from heat losses) you can store your own seeds for years, too:
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2011/04/20/seed-saving/
I’ve “grown out” lentils that were 16 years old, and Squash of about the same storage length. Onions normally only have the seeds good for one season. I have some 5 years old with 90% germination and I’m letting them age more. No more complicated than a “Mayonnaise Jar” of seed packets in the freezer. (For a farm, depending on size, a walk in freezer…)
So there’s things we can do. It is more a matter of getting folks to do them.
Most farms get seed for one year IN that year, plant, and are done. If the crop fails, you order more. When that year seed is done, it’s over. Seed producers need several years to go from “founder stock” seeds to final shipped product. Founder stock is very pure, genetically, then the grow a crop to make THEIR production seeds, that are grown to produce the final seeds. IF a bad year happens in any of those three ‘grow outs’, you lose the seeds for that year for that producer for that crop. A few years back there was a “rice shortage” as Bayer had some GMO rice “escape” and contaminate the seed production area in the Southern USA for rice. (Remember that rice panic in Asia? It was from Bayer GMO seeds in the USA…)
It would be far better, if we know “crop failures” are more likely, to have farmers “stocking” an added batch or two of seeds on premises. IMHO, the savings from NOT having spoiled seeds in the heat of summer would likely pay for the cooler to store them.
But that is not what we do these days. Now it’s all “just in time” production. From seed factory to grocery store. If “A Bad Year” happens, we are “in the toilette” until next year. In just months. We are one volcano away from a global famine. IMHO, that’s worth a Mason Jar in the fridge, a “toy garden” out back, and a small closet with some boxes of dried goods in it.
@”Al Gore”:
Tidal forces affect maga and oceans (weather). The same planetary orbital resonance keeps the sun motion in sync with lunar tides, so trying to assign “causality” between solar changes (admittedly modest, but that UV…and clouds…) vs lunar ocean stirring is very hard.
Then again “they all come together when they come”, so for any practical purpose, I don’t care which one “done it”… (“Shoot them all and let God sort them out” is good enough for deciding how to be prepared.)
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2013/01/04/lunar-cycles-more-than-one/
@A Lovel:
Love it!
@Leif, Tallbloke, etc:
Too bad the Solar Princes can’t bear to name this one after the guy who successfully predicted it decades in advance. Maybe by the next one some sense of decency will evolve.
Oh, and shall we rename Newton’s Laws while we are at it? He was an astrologer, after all.
(The bitter pill here is that it’s turning out that the planets and their positions DO matter and DO foretell the future. Just in a more gross and physical way than what ‘modern’ astrology does – which is patently nutty – and more like the ancient astrologers did. “It will be a rainy period”; predicted by the Maya thousands of years ago and correct.
Wilde:
Bang spot on! From the fall of the Egyptian Old Kingdom to the fall of Akaddia to the Hitties to the collapse of the Roman Empire. Collapses fall on periodic climate cold events. The weather shifts are the same pattern each time (as you describe, though sometimes more so) and it is cold and drought that kills.
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2009/04/06/bond-event-zero/
Though I don’t think this one will be that bad, as we are at the bottom of a lunar tidal stirring. But when at the top of those events, a solar min and we’re looking at 100 year droughts in Iran / Iraq / Egypt and rain driven crop losses with severely frozen in E. Europe / Russia while China gets both drought and frosts.
It’s a regular thing…
:
There are two effects.
1) It is generally colder and if a volcano blows off, less light. ALL crops have “issues”. But it is livable (with some shift of crops, and replantings)
2) The “polar air masses” or “loopy jet stream”: Things get more variable and unseasonal frosts can happen. Again, can be dealt with, but only if thinking ahead. Historically, Millet was the staple grain of China and S.E. Asia to some extent. Why? More drought and frost hardy. So just shifting back to a more flexible grain can be enough. But will they? Don’t know.
Also we do have a lot more ability to ‘custom craft’ plants now. And much better regional communications / transport. Take a mountain dry land rice (there are some!) and it can take more cold and dry. Just shift where you plant it…
So it’s not so much about “where you are” as about “how fast you can adapt”.
The English and Germans shifted to potatoes and beer. The French insisted on wheat for bread and had a “Let them eat cake” followed by “Off with their Heads!” moment…
@AndyG55:
Yes, it is a waste. BUT, it also means we have a 44% over capacity of grain production available just by saying “No gasohol this year”. I’d rather have that extra grain growing than not.
@Gail:
Exactly right, if long. Might also add the Monsanto move to patent and own seeds and sue anyone they can who saves their own seeds into oblivion. Oh, and buying up to put out of business traditional seedsmen.
@Rhys Jaggar:
It is possible to grow food anywhere. It’s sudden surprise changes that are the problem. There are currently greenhouses using salt water to grow food in the Arab gulf states and in desert Australia. But it takes time to build one.
http://www.seawatergreenhouse.com/australia.html
Africa “greens” when things are hotter (pulls damp air inland and makes rains). We’re past that point. Cold is only 1/2 the issue, the other half is that things dry out. Droughts in the Levant and Egypt, for example. China too.
There is one good bit. The Gulf Stream slows down and the heat it transports ‘backs up’ into Florida and The Gulf. That means more warmth and rains in Florida and the “Desert Southwest”. So there are some places that ‘pick up the slack’. Also Latin America has much lower impacts as more of it is water (so less drying possible and less freezing) and it is mostly closer to the equator.
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2012/12/15/d-o-ride-my-see-saw-mr-bond/
Though again, I’m pretty sure THIS event will be far less than a D.O. or Bond cycle event. Wrong lunar tidal force.
Then again, if Katla blows off or Mammoth “Lakes” or Yellowstone decide to toss their cookies, we’re all toast anyway.
Per L. Predictions:
Somewhere I’ve got a copy of a paper showing darned good match of solar cycle and cooling… one cycle AFTER the solar quiet starts. So maybe L. was just off on delay time on that mechanism for 1990. If he found the mechanism, but missed one cycle delay time, that is still a major things.
(Personally, I think the mechanism is lunar tidal with a solar sync due to orbital resonance…)

January 8, 2013 7:30 pm

E.M.Smith says:
January 8, 2013 at 6:50 pm
Too bad the Solar Princes can’t bear to name this one after the guy who successfully predicted it decades in advance.
Had this actually been the case, things would be very different, but, no, T.L. did not successfully predict anything decades in advance as my links to his ‘work’ show.

David Archibald
January 8, 2013 8:53 pm

redneck says:
January 8, 2013 at 1:00 am
Good point redneck, and that is why we post. I had relied on another party. With thanks.

David Archibald
January 8, 2013 9:15 pm

bacullen says:
January 8, 2013 at 6:37 am
Thanks bacullen, its back in.

David Archibald
January 8, 2013 9:17 pm

Ulric Lyons says:
January 8, 2013 at 12:57 pm
The Ap index so far for the month of January, 2013 is 2. Quite remarkable. A big sleep is coming.

January 9, 2013 12:58 am

Leif Svalgaard said January 8, 2013 at 12:46 pm

The Pompous Git says:
January 8, 2013 at 12:11 pm
Never to forget that Galileo, a man much venerated in scientific circles, was a teacher of astrology for many years and rather famous for his astrological predictions that he claimed were absolutely certain.
Astrology was good for funding…
I’m sure [having read most of his writings] he didn’t believe in it himself

Personally, I would not have been so ready to attribute hypocrisy to Galileo [having read most of his writings], but opinions differ. Do you think that is what caused him to be so venerated by the Enlightenment?

Stephen Walters
January 9, 2013 3:31 am

Leif Svalgaard says:
January 8, 2013 at 7:30 pm
Had this actually been the case, things would be very different, but, no, T.L. did not successfully predict anything decades in advance as my links to his ‘work’ show.
Then you must have a full understanding of his work to make such a statement. Could you tell us the the main repeating data or occurrence that T.L. used to predict grand minima in 2030 and further. It is a simple question, so a straight simple answer would be appreciated.

Ninderthana
January 9, 2013 3:36 am

Leif Svalgaard says:
January 8, 2013 at 12:56 am
“The solar community is not keen on naming things after pseudo-scientists or modern astrologers, but since Eddy was neither, he is a favorite candidate.”
[snip . . ad hom and unsupported . . mod]

January 9, 2013 5:58 am

The Pompous Git says:
January 9, 2013 at 12:58 am
Personally, I would not have been so ready to attribute hypocrisy to Galileo [having read most of his writings], but opinions differ. Do you think that is what caused him to be so venerated by the Enlightenment?
‘Hypocrisy’ is too strong a word. In his time, astrology was an accepted practice and Galileo was often required to perform such service for his benefactors [because they believed in it]. Galileo was one of the founders of the Scientific Method [cause of his venerated status].
Stephen Walters says:
January 9, 2013 at 3:31 am
Then you must have a full understanding of his work to make such a statement. Could you tell us the the main repeating data or occurrence that T.L. used to predict grand minima in 2030 and further.
He ‘explains’ his prediction here: http://bourabai.narod.ru/landscheidt/golden.htm
The basic idea is that of solar ‘fingers and hands’. He says” “These five-fingered hands are an utter surprise. Scientists conceive that the sun is a body composed of dead matter. As such, the sun should not display five-fold symmetry – two-fold, threefold, four-fold, or six-fold symmetry like crystals, but not five-fold symmetry reserved for the realm of biology” and “The sun’s dynamical fingers point to the number five, a close relative of the golden section. The number five, represented by a pentagon, is closely connected with the golden section. When all corners of the pentagon are connected by diagonals, a five-pointed star emerges. The intersecting lines of this pentagram form a web of golden sections. Within this star emerges a smaller pentagon that contains a smaller star with golden section divisions, and so on, in an infinite fractal sequence”. The simple answer: “this is not science”.

Stephen Walters
January 9, 2013 6:33 am

Leif Svalgaard says:
January 9, 2013 at 5:58 am
The basic idea is that of solar ‘fingers and hands’.
Fail. There is a lot of esoteric crap (esp his earlier work) to sift thru that makes it easy for the likes of you to divert attention. But there is a recurring theme that is based on good numbers that can be isolated that is the core to his Grand Minima predictions. Most would not have a clue, which is understandable.
Try again.

Bob Kutz
January 9, 2013 6:47 am

In Re; Stephen Walters January 8, 2013 at 4:37 pm
to In Re; Bob Kutz January 8, 2013 at 2:16 pm,
Stephen; I don’t have it at my finger tips. I don’t see where it is in wiki though either. I am fairly certain I didn’t make the statement based on something I found there. I don’t think I looked at the wiki site before posting my comment (or even after) and I don’t see the assertion on the page about him this morning. Perhaps you are looking at a different page.
If I am wrong in my assertion; I apologize, but I don’t think I am. I have little doubt that Landscheidt had crossed over the line from being a scientist to being an advocate. Perhaps a more common occurrence than most suspect. If one discovers that two pieces of a large and complex puzzle fit very neatly together, they can hardly be blamed for advocating their position.
If I have spoken too harshly of him (in comparing him to the likes of Hansen, Jones and Mann), then so be it. Perhaps he was more conscientious in his science than that particular group. Mind you, I do still believe that he used the term ‘Landscheidt minimum’ several times though I can find no reference to it this morning. I will attempt to find that out, at least as long as my attention span allows.
Either way; In my opinion, Jack Eddy never suffered from such certitude. He knew what he was trying to understand and knew that he didn’t understand it. As such, he embodied the epitome of scientific endeavor to me. His analogy to trying to understand ‘God’s giant patch cord in the sky’ put the puzzle into a kind of perspective for me that worked and indicated that, whatever current climate scientists think they understand, they don’t understand how that patch cord works. If they did their models would be a lot more skilful than they are.
When I read that it had been decided to name the impending minimum after him, it did make me smile. I hope that at least that part of this story is correct.

January 9, 2013 6:50 am

Stephen Walters says:
January 9, 2013 at 6:33 am
But there is a recurring theme that is based on good numbers that can be isolated that is the core to his Grand Minima predictions.
Anybody [my then 5-yr old grandson did that a few years back] looking at http://sidc.be/html/wolfaml.html can see a nearly 100-yr cycle and extrapolate.
T.L. had no idea what was going on. Earlier he ‘predicted’ the Grand Minimum to be in 1990. When that didn’t happen it was time to move the goalposts.
Your reaction reminds me of a story about spoon-bender Uri Geller. When it was pointed out to somebody that Geller had been found cheating 70% of the time, the response was: ‘so what? in the remaining 30% of the cases, Geller really did bend the spoon by mind alone’. It seems to me that you fall in that same category.

Stephen Walters
January 9, 2013 7:27 am

Bob Kutz says:
January 9, 2013 at 6:47 am
Stephen; I don’t have it at my finger tips. I don’t see where it is in wiki though either. I am fairly certain I didn’t make the statement based on something I found there. I don’t think I looked at the wiki site before posting my comment (or even after) and I don’t see the assertion on the page about him this morning. Perhaps you are looking at a different page.
If I am wrong in my assertion; I apologize, but I don’t think I am

I edited the Wiki entry about 12 hours ago, so we will see if Connolley lets it through (he also has an issue with the man). The referenced paper for the alleged statement came up short and I have read most of his work and not seen the claim. It is a slur on a deadman that needs to be resolved, either way. In the talk on the page in 2008 Wiki is challenged to provide evidence of T.L’s statement re his name on the Minimum, no response was forthcoming. The bias of Connolley is clearly evident. In the meantime no assumptions should be made.

Stephen Walters
January 9, 2013 7:33 am

Leif Svalgaard says:
January 9, 2013 at 6:50 am
It seems to me that you fall in that same category
It seems all you have is Ad Hom. It also seems that you have no credentials to criticize.

SandyInLimousin
January 9, 2013 7:37 am

Leif Svalgaard
Many thanks for the response that Prof/Dr Hathaway acknowledged his projections/model were incorrect taking note of this posting
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2013/01/09/december-solar-activity-in-a-big-slump/ .
With regard to your reponse below I wonder if his change of view was 18 years before the prediction was proved incorrect or some time afterwards when he’d had time to work out a modification to the original theory?
Thank you once again for your patience.
Sandy
Leif Svalgaard says:
January 8, 2013 at 11:16 am
richardscourtney says:
January 8, 2013 at 10:18 am
Whatever the language he used, the predictions by Theodor L. are clear, unambiguous and to date they are seen to have been remarkably correct.
Landscheidt, T. Swinging sun, 79-year cycle, and climatic change. J. interdiscipl. Cycle Res. 12, 3-19, 1981.
“The next minimum in the 79-year cycle will occur in 1990. It will be more pronounced than the minimum in 1811.”