Al buys Al

And here I didn’t think old Al could sink any lower. I stand corrected. And now we all know where Al stands, too–profiteer and turncoat.

Al Jazeera has proven itself as a legit news organization. When I was deployed to Qatar, I would watch and although they don’t shirk with showing violence, death or mayhem, it is much more interesting than the crap currently put out there.

Apologies for the double post, didn’t look like the first one was accepted.

That is, adding the proceeds of the sale of Current to his Apple and Google income, which was north of $100M two years ago.

It will be good to see some balance in the news reporting. CNN FOX SKY et al are not exactly giving Americans a true picture of what is going on in the world. US Citizens should be watching PressTV and Russia Today to get a bit of balance.

[snip. Invalid email address, violates site Policy. — mod.]

I sincerely hope Al Jazeera has the same luck Al gore had with this channel…

I read a lot of foreign news services that have English language editions including Al Jazeera. I am sad to report that I have found that Al Jazeera tends to have a bit more journalistic integrity then the NYT, or MSNBC, but then again, even Soviet Pravda had more integrity.

Second take, amazing stuff right in front of us!

Obviously Qatar is interested in expanding its role in fighting global warming, as evidenced from the recent conference. And if it takes $100 million for Al Gore to land on his feet – well that’s the cost of a good fight. Smart rats never jump. They quietly slip onto another ship.

Who bought it? Al Jazeera in Qatar or Al Jazeera English (AJE). I understand they are two different entities because of our media laws. AJE has been mainstream broadcasting in the DC area for years (for diplomats). I heard, years ago, that AJE has an Israeli investor owner, and I know it would need a US investor owner (reason why Murdoch had to become American citizen when he entered US market and didn’t want to share ownership).
Furthermore, AJE has entirely different content than AJ Qatar. Look at the their opinion page names:
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/
Or some of their blog names:
http://blogs.aljazeera.com
Al Gore couldn’t make Current TV work. You think Gore was capable of instituting Al Jazeera’s Code of Ethics? AJE is the only news org to have one of these.
http://www.aljazeera.com/aboutus/2006/11/2008525185733692771.html

I am with ZootCadillac.
Al Jazeera has more balanced news then all US agencies put together.
I remember how in the early 80’s on my first extended stay in the US I was branded a communist for spouting some liberal west European ideas. I was also told to keep those ideas quiet as they would land me in jail.
Land of the free? That was an eyeopener.
As they say in the country I am living in at the moment: Yeah right.

Now we know exactly who Al Gore pals up to. No kidding. They didn’t come to Al, Al went to them to make the sale. He was in trouble and his propaganda just wasn’t selling. Needed better propaganda.

These are interesting times, as in the Chinese curse. We better wake up. Who is John Galt?

I am NOT with ZootCadillac who says: Fox news as a legitimate source as opposed to the far-right political activist mouthpiece it has become. I’m certainly not some raging communist as I’m sure by now many of you will be thinking. I’m a fairly well educated white, Englishman in the UK. I like to get my news from many different sources so as to get a better global view.
I don’t know about AJ as I never watch it. Once I found out about their “Sesame Street” that taught little kids how to hate Jews (I watched a few disgusting episodes) –I knew it was not for me.
As far as Fox–what???? I am a fairly well educated woman in the US (who listens to the BBC and Moscow news) and I want you to know that Fox is far from the mouth piece of the far-right political scene–in fact many conservatives no longer listen to it becasue it is so middle of the road–they tell more of the truth than the other MSM, so you are more likely to hear facts from them and spin from MSM–but ‘far right?’ Sorry, you fail on that one.
DesertYote says “even Soviet Pravda had more integrity”
I lived in Moscow for more than a year in early 90’s. Pravada does not have any integrity–or at least then–now may be different–it was the laughing stock of teh man on the street.

“”””…..nga Din says:
January 2, 2013 at 8:53 pm
January 2, 2013 at 8:01 pm
I would urge you, America to be careful of how you discuss this simply to avoid looking foolish. Yes the USA prides itself on being the land of the free but for the majority of us looking in we can see the falsity of this especially with regard to your media and especially with regard to middle east reporting about Israel.
Your media, the big newspapers especially are incredibly biased with reporting about , Israel and whilst you will hear atrocious stories of how filthy Arab terrorist murdered a poor schoolgirl you won’t read about the 100′s of Palestinian children killed in sweeping missile attacks every month.
============================================================================
They have smart bombs that only target children? The “filthy Arab terrorist” have smart rockets that avoid children?……”””””
Well I don’t know who said what here Gunga, but, if it was you, then you are being deceived.
Our President; who also leads our troops as CIC openly bows to prominent Arab leaders, and has them as dinner guests at the White House; that’s not US media bias; you can fact check it yourself.
But the Israeli Prime Minister, can only enter our White House through the servant’s entrance around the side, so nobody sees him enter to be lectured by our anointed World leader.
And we can listen live to the speeches at the United Nations to hear for ouselves the utterances of Arab leaders, and also other Islamic democracies as well; scuse me, I guess there aren’t any islamic democracies, are there ?
We are not as stupid, as US media portrays us, so we can see what goes on in those areas surrounding Israel for ourselves.
I believe the Geneva Conventions classify it as a war crime to put military accoutrements that are legitimate targets of war, into civilian occupied locations, such as hospitals and schools. But perhaps you didn’t know that.
Actually, modern Israel, was set up by mostly Jewish people as well as their Arab cousins, who were largely refugees of a war against their very existence; the land in the region was theirs thousands of years before any UN existed.

ianrs says:
January 2, 2013 at 9:18 pm
I’d believe AlJ before tbe BBC or CNN everyday. Despite their greeny perpesctive on everything.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
There, right there in that comment, is the problem.
When our knowledge of a given issue is high, we almost always see the reporting as incompetent, superficial, and inaccurate. What better example can we have of this than MSM reporting of climate science?
So, will Al Jazeera be biased? You betcha. Is that a problem? Sure.
But the bigger problem is that their reporting of middle east affairs will be just as incompetent, superficial, and inaccurate as is their reporting of climate science. Just because they do more of it doesn’t mean they are any better at it. Exact same goes for CNN, Fox, BBC, WSJ…. pick a topic that you have in depth knowledge of and check to see how it is reported. All we’re getting from the MSM these days is current events. Bias is mostly about which current events are reported and which not. The bigger problem is that high integrity journalistic investigation that puts the current events into proper perspective is lacking entirely.
A pox on all their houses.

This is a flyby comment as I am having a rough week.
I would not totally discount Al Jazeera as a news organization. (I no longer know how to categorize “legitimate” news organizations). I do not watch Al Jazeera (or any other news) but much of what I have read passes the laugh test.
Look at how they cover women’s issues as treatment of women is a major failing of Islamic culture as currently practiced.
Full disclosure, I have not dropped in on Al Jazeera written media for several months.

Zoot, perhaps it’s news to you that terrorists hide among women and children for a reason. Same reason they fake atrocities for video propaganda on outlets like AJ. And many Brits and Russians and sophisticates all over the world are anti-semites. Doesn’t make em right.

In the slippery, vested interest world of MSM it is necessary to ‘triangulate’ at every opportunity.
Having Al Jazeera widely available in the US will give open minded people another ‘perspective’ on major issues. This can only be a good thing.
As for Al Gore being a fat hypocrite…well that seems true, regardless of which angle you look at it from.

We live in interesting times, given the vacuum our media has become, Pravda 2009 covered climate gate more accurately and honestly than CBC and most of the rest of North American Media, I would not be surprised to see Al Jazeera exceed my expectations.
Al Gore getting bailed out, thats good too, he will have some money for the lawsuit settlements.
The entertainment Media,for it’s not news or reporting as we knew it, is fading away.
Too few of their viewers trust them anymore, sure they would like to, hence the success of Fox, but its going down,being replaced by trusted blogs.
The media sold the public out, they know it, we know it and the advertisers know it.
Follow the advertisers they know the media is not reaching the public anymore.
We see the media attempting placement advertising, hoping to save their asses, but the shows are feeble and viewers fickle.
The effort to control the internet, is clear notice that they recognize their fading influence and the blatant love affair with Obama, their prince and saviour .
Would intelligent people be that brazen, if they had anything left to lose?

He should have stuck to helping Tipper ban Kiss records. They are fake demons AL!

The base problem is the idea of not being biased. All outlets report from what they think is the acceptable range of views. So there key questions, are, do they fake the reported facts? Do they suppress relievent views?
What is your objection to hearing people outside your confort zone? Where people have negative views of you is it not better to understand what they think, even if they are wrong?
If your objection is that they are terrorists, Remember the voice of the current deputy prime minister of North Ireland was banned on UK TV for many years and now he is in the government.
Just because they say it on TV, does not mean you have to accept it. In general it is better to know what it is that you do not accept.

@Other_Andy.
i read your comment with interest. i did consider a reply to each point and did a little research but my PC recently blew up and i’ve been commenting on WUWT from my bed ( it’s 7:30am here) on a small netbook in the dark. It’s difficult, the keyboard is cramped. I make many mistakes.
Also i realised that there was no point. it’s just opinion. That you don’t see things the way i do is no doubt down to your own political beliefs. i personally have no stake on US politics and I’d be pretty much ashamed to associate myself with either party right now but for differing reasons. i see Fox news as I see it. I don’t see how shareholders are altering the style and manner of reporting. i do know the murdoch family and their practices very well due to their exposure in the UK and the subsequent arrest of many of their media bigwigs. It’s my opinion, I’ll let yours be.
@Neill
Having fought your ‘terrorists’ (many of whom are people who have been made enemies from the actions of the west as opposed to being a terrorist threat in the past ) i like to think I have a clue what’s going on in the region. I’m not sure what the rest of the post had to do with me and my point about US media except that I inferred a reference that you might consider me anti-semitic. i apologise in advance if that’s not the case but if it was so then i refute that in entirety. I may not agree with organised religion but that;s the same for one as any other.
I would however defend the right of any individual to practice his faith without interference or persecution. If you were implying that I have something against Jews ( the people who identify as such rather than the people who practice Judaism ) then I’d invite you to come look me in the eye and repeat your claim. I would not allow it to stand. Any accusation of discriminatory practice levelled at me is treated the same. As someone who has fathered mixed-race children i think you can see where that stems from. I find discrimination by race, gender or religion to be abhorrent.
@DaybyDay
I have been there, which is why i find much of your comment anecdotal rhetoric. You would not make such claims if you knew the people. The ‘Arab’ is not the same over the region and nor is ‘the Muslim’ and you media fed understanding of the region, based on your comments simply reinforces my views of biased media.

“having convinced Mr. Gore and the other owners of Current that it has the journalistic muscle and the money to compete head-to-head with CNN and other news channels in the United States.”
that it has money was al that mattered for Al.
As for Al Jazeera. I know it has a negative image in the US. But it has good coverage of things happening in the Middle East. I follow their live-blog on Syria, for example. And as an earlier commenter said: you want as much info you can get and make up your own mind about events.
Too bad Al Jazeera is all in for the AGW myth. Now that I learned that Qatar is the main financer plus the fact that Qatar was hosting the last climate conference at Doha, I don’t think that Al Jazeera will provide a different view on that issue any time soon.

I’d like to add to these comments that i do hope I have not upset too many people by my comments. I am aware of how sensitive an issue comments about terrorism still are. it was never my intention to direct the conversation that way, i just found myself responding to responses to me as honestly as i could. I’m a great believer in tolerance and I hope you can tolerate my comments in the same way i do the many others here that i don’t agree with when the discussion goes off topic.
I can get a little heated at times, mostly if called a liar or accused of some form of prejudice. I like to think I’ve met and known enough of the world’s people to know we are pretty much all the same, we were just indoctrinated into different views. many of which we could simply do without.
I will concede that i am not entirely without prejudice or bigotry as i am incredibly intolerant of idiots, whatever your creed or colour.
I enjoy WUWT very much and would prefer to make friends discussing the things we have in common than make enemies over the things we don’t share the same views of. I reserve the right to remain a cantankerous old bastard though 🙂 Happy new year all.

Is Al Jazeera reporting the news that hundreds of people are dying of COLD in Uttar Pradesh in India. Mostly street people they are unable to endure the lowest recorded temperatures in that region since 1969.

ZootCadillac says:
January 2, 2013 at 11:49 pm
” I’m not sure what the rest of the post had to do with me and my point about US media except that I inferred a reference that you might consider me anti-semitic. i apologise in advance if that’s not the case but if it was so then i refute that in entirety.”
You called the indiscrimate, untargeted firing of rockets at Israeli villages and cities morally superior to targetting enemy launch sites. You called those rockets darts.
I think you are very anti-semitic. I don’t know you, but you sound like a muslim apologist for Hamas.

It seems like Israel can’t do right. They are patient for months as Palestinians or Hezbollah are firing rockets into their country and then they finally respond with superior weapons and they get called “mean” and “nasty.”

Living in Europe and trying to find a little truth in “”NEWS”” channels I would rate for accuracy and presentation Al Jazeera one million ( 1,000,000,) times better than the BBC, if you want to rant try watching these 2 channels at news hour then compare !

Very lucky to get Al Jazeera…. I travel constantly in SE Asia, and I am alway VERY happy to land a hotel that has Al Jazeera. A very different approach to the usual ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, FOX etc, and even way ahead of the BBC………
I always see very interesting stories about places and issues that never pop up on the western MSM, and the quality of the reporting and detail is impressive. Far better than the US/Aus/Brit style of a studio full of talking heads on a 24 hour news cycle proving that the stock market and politics are just a game to be constantly chewed over…
Of course, they undoubtedly have their own viewpoints and own bias (though not at all obvious to me) but then again, we should all watch and digest ANY MSM knowing that somewhere behind it there is someone with his own particular viewpoint calling the shots.
As an interesting News broadcaster I cannot praise them highly enough. (Disclosure … I’m an Aussie, from a family of many generations of Aussies).

AGW skeptics forget about their skepticism when it comes to other ‘scams’, like politics, patriotism, wars…??
Oh yes all that politics, patriotism and wars so how long have you had a reforming left =wing president ? how are the politics, patriotism and wars going for you ? we had a left wing govermnet for 13 yrs and they left us broke with their version of politics left us swamped with their version patriotism and burying our sons with their version of war !

The Al Jazeera channel is available in Britain on Sky TV. Why on earth shouldn’t it be available in American homes? The attitude of some American right-wingers to freedom of speech is rather like the view of consumer choice that Henry Ford expressed when he wrote “any customer can have a car painted any color that he wants so long as it is black.”

Zoot, I genuinely appreciate reading your perspective here. I don’t watch any TV news so I don’t know or care how biased there are. But when you say “of which 1128 were children” it reminds of the statistix that the gun control advocates like to use here. There are some innocent children killed by guns and those are tragic and often easily preventable. But many of the “children” used in the statistix are gang members from 18-20. Sometimes the gun control advocates will even admit it like Father Pfleger in Chicago recently complaining to President Obama about the “300 children” killed in the school year in Chicago (leaving out the breakdown of gang members, stabbings and beatings) while Obama paid lots of attention to some young and innocent white children who were shot.

OK. I’m done/ It was too much. With my sincere apologies to Anthony.
To those who don’t know me from your biblical Adam yet choose to make all manner of insulting and egregious inferences about my character and beliefs based upon a few comments then shame on you. You could have asked and i would have explained.
And for the one which i expect will have me excluded from further conversation. @DirkH
[snip . . site rules . . mod] you sir. I can be found under this nickname elsewhere including twitter. i will invite you to find me there. I’ll invite you to my door, paid for, to repeat your accusations.
Apologies again to Anthony and the mods but the accusations levelled at me are not to be tolerated.

Is irony made from carbon? If so, this will become the Big Foot channel.

I have watched Al Jazeera and they are waaaaay better than the BBC. And they don’t protect sexual predators. 😉

I must say I’m disappointed how ugly some of this discussion seemed to get. Bottom line – if you don’t like what they broadcast, change channel. That’s the essence of freedom, guys, and one of the inherent dangers of freedom is that some people my have (and express) views you don’t like or agree with.
As for some of the “Muslims = terrorists” innuendo, as someone who is also from the UK and also ex Army, we had decades of terrorism out of Ireland. By the “Muslim terrorist” theory, that would make every Irishman, and their supporters, terrorists. Which would include many of those very fine NY Firemen and Policemen who were first on the ground on 9/11*. In fact, we should probably include all Catholics in that sweeping generalisation as well!
That’s patently not the case but it would be wise to bear in mind that, as a percentage of the world’s (fairly small) Irish population, the numbers who actively supported the Cause are considerably higher than the percentage of the apparently 2 billion Muslims who would even countenance, let alone actively support, “Muslim terror”..
All races, all cultures and all creeds breed Bad Men. If you aspire to support freedom you’ll never succeed as long as you allow yourself to hold such absurd generalisations!
*Please note that, in the interest of international harmony I even typed that date the wrong way round for you guys 😉

Billy says: January 3, 2013 at 1:11 am
DirkH says: January 3, 2013 at 1:16 am
Re Palestine: I think it is essential in life to try to look at conflicts from the viewpoint of the “other” sides. A little broader news reporting and some view of the humans on the other side cannot hurt, then all can make up their own minds who is right or wrong and why the fighting goes on and on.
And labelling people does not make them wrong – A couple of important comments from a couple of guys not known for their anti- semetism:

“Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French…What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct…If they [the Jews] must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb … (he decries violence but goes on to say) …. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds.”

“
Mahatma Gandhi, quoted in “A Land of Two Peoples” ed. Mendes-Flohr. :
from The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict. Published by Jews for Justice in the Middle East http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html (purportedly a Jewish site)
“…….seems to have a feel for what motivates his enemies and was widely quoted as saying: “If I were a Palestinian I would have joined a terrorist organisation.”
[and an interesting aside] Barak also said during a US television interview last year that he would probably strive for nuclear weapons if he were in Iran’s position….”
Ehud Barak former Israeli prime minister Military Officer, Defence Minister, a member of the Israeli Defence Forces for 36 years who retired from the military as chief of staff and its most decorated soldier.
http://www.theage.com.au/world/singleminded-in-military-and-politics-alike-20121127-2a457.html#ixzz2DNbuDPIA

http://news.yahoo.com/glenn-beck-tried-buy-current-tv-rejected-032853589–finance.html
“Glenn Beck’s The Blaze approached Current about buying the channel last year, but was told that ‘the legacy of who the network goes to is important to us and we are sensitive to networks not aligned with our point of view,’ according to a person familiar with the negotiations.”
Glenn Beck (who I think is crazy) wasn’t allowed to buy Current TV because they wanted to sell to someone who held their viewpoint. Isn’t Al Jazerra owned by Qatar and the royal family? And how did they make their money? Being a part of Big Oil. Al Gore is making $100 million of Big Oil money, and then he and his cronies will turn around and decry about Big Oil money fighting against CAGW. Who really gets oil money? Not CAGW skeptics, but CAGW believers.
And once again, I will begin to believe you, Al Gore, about CAGW when you live the way you tell me to live. Walk the walk and lead by example. Until you live poor and “sustainable” like you want me to, I won’t believe a word you say. Give your $100 million to the poor countries. The same goes for you Michael Mann, Phil Jones, and so on. When you start to live sustainable, then I will too. But I already know you are unwilling to live poor.

eworrall1 says:
January 2, 2013 at 7:25 pm
I think we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. MSM mostly feeds us biased rubbish, but if you receive a lot of different attempts at bias, you have some chance of sometimes finding the occasional grain of truth….
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Agreed. It will be a challenge to the MSM’s wall of silence….maybe. As I have shown many times here the bankers own/control the media. link

Al-Jazeera may have an Arabic name, a headquarters in Qatar, and at least nominal Arabic ownership, but to say that it represents Arabs or Muslims would be about as silly as saying that ABC News or CNN represents the U.S.A. — or that Qatar represents Arabs or Muslims. More useful are the news networks that defend the governments of countries that the Anglo-American Establishment is stridently demanding that the West overthrow, such as the government of Russia, Syria, Iran, Sudan or China, and in general, news networks that defend the principle of national sovereignty against “Anglo-American” (but really un-American, and against the interest of most Anglos) schemes for world government!
If you really want to know what’s going on in the Middle East, visit the website of a news network that is most despised by the forces that overthrew the government of Libya, chopped-up Qaddafi, and replaced his regime with Al-Qaeda’s affiliates, which celebrated the 11th anniversary of September 11, 2001 by shelling the U.S. Embassy in Benghazi and killing the patriotic Americans inside: larouchepub.com (Executive Intelligence Review).

Louis:
My understanding is they signed the deal in 2012 thus avoiding the increase in capital gains tax. So much for the wealthy “doing more of their share”.

markx says:
January 3, 2013 at 5:12 am
…. A couple of important comments from a couple of guys not known for their anti- semetism….
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>…
As I said one has to look at the mess from an historical perspective. Anti-semetism ran high after WWII. It was alive and well in the USA in the 1950’s-60’s. I know because my mother, thanks to being half arab, look Jewish and was often a target despite belonging to a Christian church.
After WWII the Allies were caught between a rock and a hard place. On the one hand they did not want to take in a flood of German Jews and on the other they had the Holocaust media disaster to deal with. Dumping the Jews into a useless bit of sand called their ‘homeland’ which was then occupied by Britian and therefore ‘their’s to give away’ was seen as the perfect solution.
From WIKI

…. “The Ottoman Empires was one of the greatest, most extensive, and long lasting in the History of the World. It included most of the territories of the Eastern Roman Empire(…)and held portions that the Byszantinians never ruled (…)The Ottoman Empire was born in 1300 and endured until World War I…
In 1914 Enver Bey’s alliance with Germany led the Young Turks into the fatal step of joining Germany and Austria-Hungary in World War I, against Britain and France. The British saw the Ottomans as the weak link in the enemy alliance, and concentrated on knocking them out of the war. When a direct assault failed at Gallipoli in 1915, they turned to fomenting revolution in the Ottoman domains, exploiting the awakening force of Arab nationalism…
when the Ottoman Empire was defeated by British Empire forces after the Sinai and Palestine Campaign in 1918, the Arab population was met with what it perceived as betrayal by the British. The British and French governments concluded a secret treaty (the Sykes-Picot Agreement) to partition the Middle East between them and, additionally, the British promised via the Balfour Declaration the international Zionist movement their support in creating a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Historically known as the site of the ancient Jewish Kingdom of Israel and successor Jewish nations for 1,200 years between approximately 1100BC-100AD, the region now had a large Arab population also from the 7th century. When the Ottomans departed, the Arabs proclaimed an independent state in Damascus, but were too weak, militarily and economically, to resist the European powers for long, and Britain and France soon established control and re-arranged the Middle East to suit themselves.Skyes Picot Agreement: Division of Territory…

As I said the mess is complicated.

Anthony, don’t be biased and give advice on how to protest against al Jazeera. It’s the only big news channel that I can barely tolerate any more. CNN is too superficial, and I flat out refuse to watch BBC because it’s unreliable. I hate the way the big news channels tell their listeners how to think about a news story. When I’ve been watching al Jazeera english, I’ve noticed how they tend to be less biased and they do make an effort to be balanced. Ok, they royally fail to do that when it comes to climate science, which is a big negative for them, though.

ZootCadillac says:…..
“………stop seeing every Arab who’s religion you don’t share as some kind of enemy because the reality.on the ground in these places is far from what your media would have you believe.”
The fact that you would post something like this says more to me about your ignorance of America and Americans, and about what you are being reported about us and our beliefs than it does anything else.

Big Al slipping under the 2013 capital gains wire with a bag of Qatari oil money would be worth a Josh cartoon surely!
The big danger with Al Jazeera English is the assumption that it has the same point of view as Al Jazeera Arabic. BBC and Reuters also have a different face to the Arabic world.
Westerners need desperately to hear what real conversations are going on in other parts of the world, not the “predigested news morsels, ready to eat” provided by the MSM. They only provide the illusion of knowledge.
With free online machine translation reaching remarkable levels of quality these days, anyone can go to the horses mouth…as well as the other end.

Gail Combs;
The whole history of that region is complex. Without knowing the history of how the territories were divided after WWII you can not understand the present. If my foggy memory is correct, the formation of a Palestinian nation was raised at the time and the rest of the Arab world shot it down.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Shot down? Stole it would be the better term.
The UN enacted the partition act in 1947. The plan was for Israel to come into existence in 1948 and for “Palestine”, roughly the area now called the West Bank and Gaza, to become a country of their own after that. Unfortunately, the Arab birthday present to Israel in 1948 was war.
Everyone remembers that Israel won that war. What everyone conveniently forgets is what happened to the Palestinians. While Israel won the war, Egypt wound up in control of Gaza and Jordan wound up with the West Bank. With a stroke of the pen they could have given the Palestinians what the UN promised them, but they didn’t. They kept the land for themselves while refusing to make the Palestinians who lived there citizens of their own country, thus creating a nation of refugees on the very land that had been promised to them by the UN.
Fast forward a couple three more wars and Israel not only winds up seizing the West Bank and Gaza from Jordan and Egypt, but eventually winds up turning control of both over to the Palestinian Authority. So now the Palestinians are getting a shot at building their own country, not by the largess of the United Nations, nor by that of their Arab brethren.
With “brethren” such as these, the Palestinians need few more enemies.

Josualdo says:
January 3, 2013 at 4:51 am
I ocasionally read AJ on the web. Nothing too special there, slightly boring. Obviously warmist. Now if I could get my hand at a decent Russian news site…
—————————————————————————————————–
Try http://www.en.rian.ru .
This english-language page by RIA Novosti is very good to get to see the other side of the coin, too, and for a russian news-outlet is only as biased as neccessary to survive.

Zoot,
I certainly am not judging you in any way. Apologies if that is what you thought. I just felt that as an American I needed to respond to that little bit of you first post. It sort of jumped out at me.
To be clear, I have no problem with AJE or it’s being broadcast here, or anywhere. As somebody astutely posted higher up in the thread, more information is always preferable to less information.
TB

{ michael hart says:
January 3, 2013 at 7:25 am
Not one of WUWT’s best articles.
I won’t, and do not need to, drag middle-east politics into global-warming arguments. }
Take another look at the top of the Home page…commentary on puzzling things in….recent news.

@richardscourtney Richard. I read your comment soon after it was posted but wanted to take a little time to consider my response. I went for a walk and requisitioned two fine bottles of Chardonnay. everything tastes better with wine? Right?
As you Richard, are no doubt aware I am an infrequent poster on WUWT although I have tried recently to alter that with more posting. The fact is I’m not nearly as academically qualified as many such as yourself here, although I am sick of being told “you are not a scientist, what do you know?” in arguments elsewhere so am starting a bachelors in environmental sciences this month. it won’t make me a scientist but it might give me a little to fight back with and who knows later?
My comments are more provoked by experience or the comments of others touching on areas where i do have some expertise, such as construction and boatbuilding, to name a couple. I find myself often not commenting on a WUWT post because i don’t feel qualified to add to the discussion but I try to chime in when i can as I believe this is a very important time for the topic we all share a passion for and I’d like to say that I was a small part of it at the forefront of the discussion. Time will tell on that count.
my initial comments may have been a little clumsy, but were intended to suggest that people of America especially, open their minds to more sources of information. can you ever have too much data?
Perhaps i goofed. It’s been a difficult day since then. My comments are usually glossed over and ignored as well they might be but today there was some interest and i think it’s courteous to at least acknowledge those that address you if not always reply.
I knew that I had chosen a particularly awkward example for my case but could not think of a better one. i expected some feedback. ( as i type I notice I’m not always capitalising letters, please forgive this as it is a quirk of my keyboard and so laborious to correct later ) I didn’t however expect some of the accusations which followed,especially after I made my position quite clear. maybe that was naive but i am a man who you will hear described as “rough”, “hard”, “forthright” and i’m sure you will understand when i say that i don’t need anyone to jump to my defence. I feel i have that in hand.
yet here i was after a particularly difficult day feeling not a little annoyed at some commentators and their willingness to misconstrue or twist my words to their own agenda and throw in a little insult to boot.
You Richard are amongst a number of contributors to this site whom I hold in the highest regard. Not only for your academic ability but for you wisdom and plain old common sense. So it was with some surprise that i read your comment to me above and became a little emotional, hence the walk.
As mentioned, i didn’t need anyone in my corner but it was no small comfort to read that you were anyway.
for those words Richard you have my gratitude and humility.
Regards,
Craig Frier.
@TomR,Worc,MA,USA
Tom, please don’t be overly concerned. For reasons given above i have been a little snappy today. thank you for your response and there is certainly no need for an apology. I just hope that I’ve made myself understood, eventually, and I’ve made no long-term enemies
News is data. Lets welcome all new datasets that allow us to come to the best conclusion.

You know what they say Zoot…the flak is heaviest when you’re right over the target!

Well, if Anthony is going to host posts about the media as well as about science, that’s fine by me. I haven’t watched Al Jazeera often enough to have an opinion, but I have to agree with Adam when he writes (January 2, 2013 at 7:34 pm):
“It will be good to see some balance in the news reporting. CNN FOX SKY et al are not exactly giving Americans a true picture of what is going on in the world. US Citizens should be watching PressTV and Russia Today to get a bit of balance.”

ZootCadillac says: By contrast the Palestinians are using home made rockets with no targeting electronics. they calculate the fuel needed to reach a certain area and point and hope. The Israelis choose their targets with American weapons, the Palestinians just fire their darts in angry retribution at an occupying nation.
The Palestinians allow Hamas to operate within their borders. They allow them to indiscriminately fire thousands or rockets at Israeli’s and have for many years. They allow Hamas to hide behind women and children, businesses, hospitals and religious institutions in firing those weapons.
Hamas does not care, nor do the Palestinians that allow them, about who they target or who they kill.
You note Israel’s sophisticated and accurate weapons. They DO work and when used are designed and targeted to minimize collateral damage. When Hamas cowardly surrounds themselves with innocents – and the Palestinians let them – they bear the responsibility for the collateral damage – the unnecessary deaths of women, children and civilians.
You ignore Israel’s remarkable restraint and denigrate their limited and measured use of their sophisticated and powerful weapons, and decry innocent casualties. While minimizing the impact of tens of thousands of Hamas rockets indiscriminately fired at Israel, and that it is directly as a result of Hamas hiding behind innocents that they are at risk.
I would be predisposed and likely to support the Palestinians in a normal situation. But they have made very clear they have little real interest in peace.
I am quite certain that a share of the military assistance to Israel, with their blessing, would gladly be turned in to “butter” for Palestine if they truly wanted peace – if they committed to wiping out Hamas and the like once and for all. Hamas however lives and thrives on hate, so I see it as highly unlikely things will change.
And we are quite well informed here as well. Intelligent folks understand the limitations of the MSM – we have this thing called the internet, that Windbag in Chief Al Gore claims to have invented. We can find out all sorts of things there.

ZootCadillac,
I went back and read your posts, and I didn’t really see anything too extreme. I’ve certainly seen worse. You did a good job explaining your comments, so I wouldn’t worry about it. Internet rules require that comment amnesia takes over within about 72 hours. A week from now almost no one will remember who said what.
One thing I would like to correct about your perception of U.S. media. You write: “I’ve seen US media often, it still amazes me that many posters here see Fox news as a legitimate source as opposed to the far-right political activist mouthpiece it has become.”
From the perspective of most Americans, Fox is not “far right”. It only appears that way because the rest of the mainstream media is so far left. Americans consistently self-identify in Gallup polls as “conservatives” at double the numbers that they self-identify as “liberals”.
I shot my TV many years ago. But I know that Americans have made Fox their #1 media outlet because Fox reflects their views. But to my perspective, Fox is too liberal. I am an original Constitution and Bill of Rights kinda guy. Most changes since then have made things worse. We used to be the United States. No longer. Now we are subjects of the Federal Government.
Anyway, I used to see the print and television media as a good thing. No more. Now it is a propaganda operation intent on telling Americans what to think. So thank goodness for the internet!

Perhaps Al Gore selling out to Big Oil will result in death to “the deniers are funded by Big Oil” line of argument.

I shall go out on a limb and state that the most reliable news source I’ve found on television is Beck’s new station The Blaze.
I know some of you will roll your eyes; some of you think Beck is nuts; some of you may even consider my position to be in poor taste or undeserving of serious consideration.
But you should judge for yourself rather than swallow the MSM’s estimation (they do have a vested interest in their disparagement of Beck, you know).
Should you want a face-to-face evaluation, The Blaze can be found on Dish Network, channel 212 and while it costs something like $5 a month as a Dish add-on, I’ve found the information there to be spot-on and refreshingly devoid of ideological filtering or bias (One of Beck’s main reasons for leaving CNN and later for leaving Fox, by the way).
And I predict someday The Blaze with be a substantial player in reporting the news with a reputation for accuracy and hard-hitting analysis.

A. Scott says:
January 3, 2013 at 2:09 pm
“…….they have made very clear they have little real interest in peace. …”
You too would have little interest in peace if your country had been systematically dismembered during your lifetime:
Maps of Israeli settlements: (most will not bother to look, but take a few seconds… that is all it takes to see on one page what has happened to the Palestinians)
http://inpursuitofjustice.wordpress.com/2007/06/07/new-un-map-chart-west-bank-reality/
I know right from wrong, and I do recognize someone who is saying one thing, yet doing another.

markx;
Maps of Israeli settlements: (most will not bother to look, but take a few seconds… that is all it takes to see on one page what has happened to the Palestinians)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You can no more understand what has happened to the Palestinians by looking at that map than you can understand CO2’s effect on climate by looking at GISS. Much ill has befallen those poor people, but staring at a frozen moment in time will tell you nearly nothing about why.

davidmhoffer says: January 3, 2013 at 6:35 pm
“… Much ill has befallen those poor people, but staring at a frozen moment in time will tell you nearly nothing about why….”
David, I very much respect your viewpoint.
But does that “forsen moment in time” not tell you everything about why the young and fiery are wanting to fight as their land disappears meter by meter, as the all powerful western world picks its nose and looks the other way? As Israeli settlements of 25,000 are approved and built, and dividing roads that they cannot “legally” cross without a permit divide farmers from their land, and family from family?

RS says: January 3, 2013 at 11:35 am
“Wow. $500 MILLION for 47,000 viewers.
Big Al must have done someone a VERY special favor for that…”
RS makes a very good point here. Decades in the SE Asia have taught me the rich and powerful everywhere create many clever ways to get paid for favours.

Skeptical Science probably believes this is good news,
Skeptical Science: From Al Gore to Al Jazeera

markx;
With all due respect, you are having a Skeptical Science moment there.
>>>>>>>>>>>
If you have any respect for my viewpoint, you might ask yourself why I am gently suggesting to you that you are off base? Do you think this is the forum to have a debate about the facts on the ground in the middle east? Do you really want me to start dropping some facts on you? I’m trying to avoid a confrontation here, but your assertions are ill founded, out of context, and in many cases simply wrong.
Terrorists hijacking planes in the 70’s? Here’s a fact for you. Jordan murdered 100,000 Palestinians in the 70’s in a period of just a few days. Did that make any headlines? Did anyone care? That map you linked to doesn’t have the names of the communities because the Jordanians bulldozed them into the desert and erased them forever. Where was the public outcry? Where was the press coverage? When Israel was evacuating Jews by airlift from Sarajevo and planned to take as many Muslim children as possible with them before the Serbs broke through into the city, did you know that the beloved leader of the Palestinians threatened to walk out of the Oslo accords if they did? Shame on Israel for buckling to the pressure. And shame on Arafat and all those champagne diplomats who caved to him because he’d rather that those children die than let a single muslim with a positive view of Jews into the country.
That fence you wail about? Did you know what a bargain the Israeli’s got on the building materials? Yasser Arafat took the materials donated by Egypt to rebuild Gaza and sold them at bargain prices to Israeli contractors. His wife and daughter are living on the hundreds of millions, possibly billions, that were stolen from them. While promoting the very terrorism that prompted the building of the fence in the first place, Arafat was profiting from the fence being built.
I wrote another ten paragraphs, and just deleted them. As I said, this isn’t the forum. But I am bluntly telling you that you are off base. Much propaganda is spouted to fan the flames of hatred and keep the conflict alive. You are, by repeating it, playing into the hands of those who hate peace and use the Palestinians as a proxy army to fight someone else’s war.

Thank you all for your comments. You know I have deliberately avoided the debate about the Palestine/israel conflict, to any extent that is. it was not the discussion i wanted to provoke. It is a fascinating story for those that care to follow it and it’s not even slightly indicative of the wider mid east political situation. The fact that the geo-political situation of today is a by-product of a wider, earlier war has little bearing on what goes on today. But I’m simply not going to get deeper into that as it has never been my intention and i don’t want to give a select few a reason to misconstrue my position further.
Let’s just say that some of you appear to know less of the truth than you no doubt believe you do and clearly have no intention of changing that. which to me merely illustrates the point i was initially making.
It’s disturbing to see what is supposed to be a skeptical group be so closed minded on a position because it messes with their pre-conceived conclusions. I will concede that many a name in this particular thread are new names and are just chest-beating and bloviating because they believe I have insulted their ‘team’.
Personally i try to avoid saying things to a man on the internet which i am unable or unwilling to say to his face. I’d suggest that some of you would not be so bold were you looking me in the eye.
I’m past caring if I’ve made enemies now. I explained myself in clear English, many of you accept that explanation and understand my position and where i was going, some even challenging me on the actual point I was making, which i thank you for but I’ve lost the will to debate it now. Some of you have still wilfully ignored my explanation and painted me as something i clearly am not.
I will ‘craw’ back into my hole’ now.
Once again my sincere apologies to Anthony and the mods if i have caused them any unwanted attention or work in this thread.

davidmhoffer says: January 3, 2013 at 9:14 pm
“……… Jordan murdered 100,000 Palestinians in the 70′s in a period of just a few days.
…….When Israel was evacuating Jews by airlift from Sarajevo and planned to take as many Muslim children as possible with them before the Serbs broke through into the city, did you know that the beloved leader of the Palestinians threatened to walk out of the Oslo accords if they did? ……
……fence you wail about? Did you know what a bargain the Israeli’s got on the building materials? Yasser Arafat took the materials donated by Egypt to rebuild Gaza and sold them at bargain prices to Israeli contractors…….
……..this isn’t the forum. ……..Much propaganda is spouted to fan the flames of hatred and keep the conflict alive. …….. a proxy army to fight someone else’s war….”
Certainly there are some things there I have not heard of David. And certainly, I am not surprised by the story that Arafat was terribly self-serving and corrupt.
And they may well all be true, but none of them serve as any evidence that the Palestinians have not been grievously wronged from the start, and continue to be grievously wronged. These are just additional wrongs heaped upon them by their own and others.
I agree with the points as summarized in the last quoted paragraph above, especially that this is not the forum for it, and except to note that there are at least two proxy sides to that war and its propaganda, I will say no more of it here.
Regards, Mark.

markx;
Certainly there are some things there I have not heard of David. And certainly, I am not surprised by the story that Arafat was terribly self-serving and corrupt.
And they may well all be true, but none of them serve as any evidence that the Palestinians have not been grievously wronged from the start, and continue to be grievously wronged. These are just additional wrongs heaped upon them by their own and others.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You’ve missed my point. There is much more you don’t know. Every fence, check point, policy and community has a story behind it, A complicated story. If you don’t know that story, you cannot judge. That mapped you linked to is a frozen point in time. There are reasons for everything on that map, some of which I agree with and some of which I do not. The difference between you and me is that I know enough of the history to draw informed conclusions. Someone looking at that map and nothing else will draw the precise conclusions that map was intended to foster. It is a propaganda piece and was intended to mislead in the precise manner which you are using it.

davidmhoffer says: January 4, 2013 at 6:57 am
“You’ve missed my point.”
And you have missed mine.
Lets forget the map. And all the disasters of history. It is in fact a very simple story:
Summary. If you walk into another man’s country behind someone else’s gun, then proceed to take it off him a piece at a time with the backing of the world’s most powerful friend, while all the time saying “If only he would be nice about this it would hardly hurt at all”, and then blame him for the absolute disaster you create within his society, by my standards you are in the wrong.

Coupla maps in here, from B’TSELEM:
http://www.btselem.org/maps
B’TSELEM – The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories was established in 1989 by a group of prominent academics, attorneys, journalists, and Knesset members. It endeavors to document and educate the Israeli public and policymakers about human rights violations in the Occupied Territories, combat the phenomenon of denial prevalent among the Israeli public, and help create a human rights culture in Israel.
Not sure whose “propaganda” you may say that is, but it is probably not Arab.

Did anyone read the latest statements translated from AN ARABIC speech by Egyptian’s great hope, President Mohamed Morsi, ‘Israeli-Palestinian negotiations are “a waste of time and opportunities” as Arabs and Muslims get nothing out of engagement with “the descendants of apes and pigs,”.’
If one wants to know what the Arab nations really think, they must listen to the speeches, directed at their own people.
‘ “the Zionist and American enemies for the sole purpose of opposing the will of the Palestinian people.” Therefore, he stressed, “No reasonable person can expect any progress on this track.”
“Either [you accept] the Zionists and everything they want, or else it is war,” Morsi said, “This is what these occupiers of the land of Palestine know – these blood-suckers, who attack the Palestinians, these warmongers, the descendants of apes and pigs.”
If Al Jazeera reports these speeches, then they provide us with a better understanding, of who, we are really dealing with. GK

davidmhoffer says: January 4, 2013 at 9:03 am
“……. keeps the Palestinian people enslaved ……” Perhaps they prefer some choices in which type of slavery they receive:
Israeli Settlements: Time Magazine (Three Days ago)
By Karl Vick Dec. 31, 2012

At the start of 2012, the Israeli advocacy group Peace Now, which seeks a two-state solution, warned that the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was building Jewish settlements on the West Bank at a pace that, if allowed to continue, would carve up the land to a point that would doom the possibility of a viable Palestinian state.
Twelve months later, that pace has nearly quintupled. In one week of December alone, Netanyahu’s government pushed forward plans for 11,000 homes beyond the Green Line that marked Israel’s 1967 border — nearly as many settler homes as were approved in the previous 10 years combined. ….

http://world.time.com/2012/12/31/the-west-banks-2012-the-year-of-the-israeli-settlement/#ixzz2H1g8EVdE
There is no intention by current Israeli government to leave the Palestinians anything. And I doubt there ever was.

markx;
At the start of 2012, the Israeli advocacy group Peace Now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You keep quoting the opinions of other people rather than becoming familiar with the facts themselves and drawing your own conclusions. And you accuse me of being a Skeptical Science acolyte?

davidmhoffer says: January 4, 2013 at 9:54 am
“…accuse me of being a Skeptical Science acolyte…?”. Sorry, that one must have really stung, you keep bringing it up: It was light hearted reference to their style of redirecting discussion. It was not meant as a wounding insult, but I now see it could be taken that way by someone who perhaps regards them even less favorably than I do. In that instance, I do apologize.
There is nothing light hearted about the rest of this discussion though:
davidmhoffer says: January 4, 2013 at 9:03 am
“….1948 => Jordan seizes West Bank…[a note, with British trained troops under the leadership of British officers…]…. Egypt seizes Gaza. …… ”
As is often said in here, you don’t get to make up your own facts, and nor should anyone get to start history where they see fit:
“Britain’s high commissioner for Palestine [from 1928 to 1931], John Chancellor, recommended total suspension of Jewish immigration and land purchase to protect Arab agriculture. He said ‘all cultivable land was occupied; that no cultivable land now in possession of the indigenous population could be sold to Jews without creating a class of landless Arab cultivators’…The Colonial Office rejected the recommendation.”
John Quigley, “Palestine and Israel: A Challenge to Justice.” http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/origin.html
David also said: “…..You keep quoting the opinions of other people rather than becoming familiar with the facts themselves and drawing your own conclusions….”
Well, I’m quoting from articles I have read over many years of reading up on the subject, and mainly the ones I think are in the right. You were expecting perhaps personal interviews?

Well, I’m quoting from articles I have read over many years of reading up on the subject, and mainly the ones I think are in the right.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Mainly the ones that come from bigoted sources that play directly into the hands of those who keep the conflict alive.

markx,
I will concede that the American news media has a pro-Israel slant. But when I read comments by various Islamist leaders that emanate from numerous Middle Eastern countries, pledging to wipe Israel off the face of the earth and similar genocidal threats of total annihilation, my conclusion is that the Arabs/Islamists are completely in the wrong. I never read about CAIR or any other Muslim organisations, or individuals for that matter, reprimanding those warmongering haters. Silence is concurrence.
I am not jewish, and I suppose there is wrongdoing on both sides. But the fact remains that Israel is just a sliver of land that has been made productive, and the Islamists cannot stand to see that success. It is the same hate-filled tribalism that China exhibits toward Taiwan. Islamist cults are deliberately instigating and escalating this conflict by firing thousands of rockets into civilian areas, bombing civilian buses, etc. If they stopped, Israel would stop retaliating. Thus, the blame must be laid squarely at the feet of the Islamist haters.
Self defense is a human right, so being an apologist for instigating violence is a very weak argument. If your neighbor constantly threw hand grenades over the fence onto your land, I would not criticize you for retaliating. The situation in Israel is no different.

http://freebeacon.com/7-things-you-need-to-know-about-al-jazeera/

markx says:
“…it is ownership of that land that is the issue.”
Just about every country owns its land by right of conquest. Do you propose that the U.S. and Canada should give their territory to the various Indian tribes? What about Australia?
My view of the so-called Palestinians is not good. Why don’t their fellow Arabs take them in? There’s plenty of room in neighboring countries.
I don’t think we will ever be in agreement, because as far as I’m concerned, Israel should run them all off permanently. Their incessant, whining grievances over everything are a real turnoff. Arabs must be born with a grievance gene, and I’m tired of hearing about their problems. We all have problems.

• davidmhoffer says: January 4, 2013 at 10:41 am
……(re) articles ….. “Mainly the ones that come from bigoted sources that play directly into the hands of those who keep the conflict alive”.
I am not sure it would be fair to label Jewish and Israeli publications I have quoted above as bigoted.
• davidmhoffer says: January 4, 2013 at 10:53 am
“…..showing you who the Palestinians are the victims of, and stating for the record that my heart goes out to them for the predicament they find themselves in, and the manner in which they have been abused to no end by their Arab brethren and their astoundingly corrupt leadership. I’m bleeding for them……I say the things I do because my heart breaks for what they are going through…..”
I am glad to hear that you are in fact human, David. But they were not just wronged by their neighbours and so-called brethren, a process in which the colonial powers played a huge part, But also the Truman decisions, and ongoing dispossession of land and rights by the Israelis.
They are, quite simply, a people who have been grievously wronged.
I presume both of us are old enough to see that fighting in the face of these odds will get them nothing but dead, and no doubt the older citizens amongst the Palestinians feel the same. But if Ehud Barak, Israel’s most decorated soldier understood (and stated, in spite of being a former Israeli PM with all the politics that entails), why the Palestinians fight, surely we should be able to understand too.
“….. bigoted, racist and ignorant view of the world ……idiot…..”
Just because someone calls ‘you’ on an issue that they perceive is wrong, does not mean they in any way dislike ‘your people’. Labeling and ‘name calling’ the other side because you disagree with that viewpoint does not make you correct. We see similar tactics used constantly in the debate on CAGW.

markx;
I am not sure it would be fair to label Jewish and Israeli publications I have quoted above as bigoted.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If you suppose that there are no bigoted publications from Jewish and Israeli sources, then you are a bigger fool than I imagine. There are many, and you’ve quoted several of them. You’ve even quoted as well a British politician attempting to make the case that Jews should not be allowed to buy land in Israel because they are Jews. A more bigoted position than that cannot exist.

davidmhoffer says: January 4, 2013 at 7:53 pm
“….Despite which they have today, 100% of Gaza, 98% of the West Bank…..”
Ah. No, they don’t. And his brings us right back to the maps, David.
http://www.btselem.org/maps
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_settlement
http://peacenow.org/map.php
http://www.principiamarsupia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/settlements_map_eng_201101.pdf
and..

“Israel has failed the test. Palestinian control of 12% of the West Bank does not mean that Israel has given up its attitude of superiority and domination…The bloodbath that has been going on for three weeks is the natural outcome of seven years of [Israeli] lying and deception.” Israeli journalist Amira Hass, “Israel Has Failed The Test,” in Israeli newspaper Ha’aretz, 10/18/00.

The telling point is, the Israelis never went to peace talk with a map at any time, but now, in this age of the Internet, no one can continue to say one thing yet do another, and simply expect to be believed.

markx;
Just because someone calls ‘you’ on an issue that they perceive is wrong, does not mean they in any way dislike ‘your people’.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sir, you accused me of disliking them, an assertion which is false and which a reading of my comments in this thread will demonstrate is false. I said nothing to justify that accusation, nor the one I’ve quoted above.

• davidmhoffer says: January 4, 2013 at 8:30 pm
Sir, you accused me of disliking them, an assertion which is false and which a reading of my comments in this thread will demonstrate is false. I said nothing to justify that accusation, nor the one I’ve quoted above.
You may misunderstand me here. This was in response to you calling me an anti-Semite, and bigoted. Ie, your perception is that I don’t like a particular people. Just because I disagree with how a particular nation and its government are acting quite obviously says nothing about how I perceive its people.
• davidmhoffer says: January 4, 2013 at 8:51 pm
….an impressive array out of out of context quotes and misinformation ….”
It would be hard to put that particular quote from an Israeli journalist in a different context, titled as it was, “Israel Has Failed The Test”? ….

D Böehm says: January 4, 2013 at 8:25 pm
“…..So? Lots of people have been grievously wronged. How about the Aus aborigines, or the Amerinds? …”
True, those people were also wronged, and reading their history is heartbreaking.
We can also see that the damage to a dispossessed people carries down through many generations.
“…busybody…” ???
I’m stating my opinion. You are stating your opposing viewpoint. Equally busy, perhaps?

A clearer map.
http://www.principiamarsupia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/settlements_map_eng_201101.pdf

@Day by Day

Remember–in Israel women can drive, work, walk in public without a man and not be raped, and it doesn’t take 4 witnesses to claim rape. Women are not stoned for being raped either–It’s a no brainer which side I would be on even it if it were not historically the land of the semites.

Spare us this drivel: http://failedmessiah.typepad.com/failed_messiahcom/2013/01/leading-zionist-orthodox-rabbi-issues-hyper-restrictive-womens-modesty-rules-345.html

D Böehm says: January 5, 2013 at 4:44 am
says “…If there is one defining trait among Islamists…” and “…incessant whining…”
Without quoting the rest of your views I think it is obvious what sort of a person you are. Labels abound, but I won’t use them, as they are superfluous in your case. Your words speak volumes.
davidmhoffer says: January 4, 2013 at 9:36 pm
“…. quotes at your fingertips. I’ve seen most of them before, I know where they come from, and I know what you are….”
Internet, books and on my hard drive. It’s not hard.
And I think you would be very surprised at what I am. Science background, hence the propensity to research and cite. Jewish ancestry, though brought up in a largely atheist household. Skeptical enough to realize all the ‘history’ we read from either viewpoint has been slanted and re-written enough to justify the actions of one side or the other. And pragmatic enough to sift through much of that and have my own views of right and wrong.
We are in agreement perhaps in some areas: there is now no clear solution, and perhaps (in retrospect, and with the pragmatism of advancing years on my part) the Palestinians should have taken that which they were offered in the past (and there are, of course, distinctly opposing positions about what such deals really offered).
Though it is plain why they did not; accepting any deal accepted all the damage they had been dealt to that point, and all that had been taken from them. And perhaps they were hoping, obviously in vain, for a fairer, caring ‘world community” to have some say at some future point in time.