I have an important project to finish this weekend, so I’ll be offline much of the weekend.
Here’s some pictures of what I’m up to.
BTW global warming and CO2 reduction did not figure into my decision to do this again (we downsized our original home that I first put solar on) one bit. The economics and out of control regulations that will make electricity prices “necessarily skyrocket” starting this fall were the main impetus.
Details next week, along with instructions how how you can get one easily and put your own sweat equity into it and save a bundle…and have it paid off quickly and fully own it…unlike those lease programs that require 20 year payoffs…and by that time the company may be gone and the panels fading.
A question popped into my head when other posters started talking about hail damage. Are the solar panels covered against hail/storm damage by your Homeowners Insurance? Is there a rifer that can be added and if so, how much does that cost/yr. It would be very sad to lose the entire investment to a sudden hail storm (or a hurricane where I live in Florida). I’m genuinely interested because this is something I would be interested in. The back of my home faces almost due south so my pitched roof would get almost direct sunlight for most of the day. I think it would generate a ton of electricity.
Anthony, a suggestion to add to your workload: While you’re already up there, install a continuous ridge vent. Combine that with continuous soffet vents, and you’ll have a passive cooling system for the attic, dropping temps by 10-20 degrees. If you really wanted to cool the attic down (leading to the same for the inner space of the house), and really wanted to add to your to do list, a radiant barrier can be installed on the underside of the deck. The best time to do that one is when the whole deck is being replaced, but it can be done. As others have done, I’d politely request updates on how it goes, both currently, and as time goes by.
Oh, as far as possible rain and hail damage, IIRC, Anthony’s neck of the woods gets little of either. I’ve kicked around the idea of an array, but being on the Southern Plains, I’d need a quick and easy way to cover the thing up. A turbine would probably work much better here, we certainly have regular wind!
There is a guy who has posted his experience of installing a heat pump to reduce energy bills in the UK [in fact I think he posted it here at WUWT].
http://mwt1974.tumblr.com/post/22823210239/how-we-slashed-household-heating-hot-water-energy-use
It seems a shame that the British government is too myopic to put their subsidies into technology that is far more appropriate for the British climate than solar panels. I think it also speaks to the profound ignorance of so many “Greens” that they don’t find heat pumps as sexy as windmills or or solar cells. Engineers, in particular, have efficiency drummed into them from an early age.
A technical question for anybody: If you have a standby generator, you must have a transfer switch (required by Code) to prevent back feeding the grid during an outage- this is a matter of safety for utility workers. With PV, how is it isolated from the grid when there is an outage? You can’t have a transfer switch as the purpose of the PV system is to feed excess power back to the grid. I have never heard this discussed and am simply curious.
I admire your efforts, Anthony, but I’ve read a number of posters here regretting their previous windmill or solar installations. From an engineer’s perspective, that’s alot of equipment to invest in and take care of….
Aren’t you adorable, with your silly insolence! Of course, we don’t know (yet) if Anthony is taking advantage of any tax benefits, but if he is, he’s right in line with his state’s stated goals.
For the record, I think solar panels are fine, if someone wants to use them, and I don’t have to pay for yours. If it turns out that taxes are subsidizing Anthony in this case, well, I don’t live in California, and the people there have made lots of bad economic public policy decisions. We’re learning a lot from the people of that state about the pitfalls of democracies that reward politically correct, but economically unsustainable behavior. Anthony details an intentional Faustian bargain that’s been foisted upon him by that electorate, and I can’t condemn a choice that’s rational given this unfortunate framework..
It’s also a wonderful opportunity for us here, if Anthony shares the first hand experience he gains with having solar panels on his home. I’ve known a few people that have used them on their homes in Colorado (a very sunny state) over the years, and their experiences have been fraught with problems. But the technology has advanced, and he’s in a unique position to keep the world informed of the cost/benefit tradeoffs of his system, and of the tax and subsidy ramifications. This will all be very apropos to the discussions that occur on WUWT, even if you personally don’t get much from them because you’ve pigeon-holed yourself.
By the way, the word is ‘payola’ with the word pay built right in. There is no need to capitalize it, as it’s not a proper name. The definition of payola implies a private payment or bribe secretly paid to directly influence some area where competition and merit would otherwise dictate the outcome. Certainly government subsidies influence competition and merit-based economies, but they are not secret or private, and so they don’t fit the definition in the case of someone utilizing a governemental subsidy or benefit.
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rogerknights says:
July 21, 2012 at 9:56 pm
Another cheap item is to add an insulating blanket around your water heater.
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And put a timer on it to limit how often & when it comes on.
Anthony: I see you finally made your decision. I am still wrestling with the idea and all it’s implications. Please give us updates from time to time, as you progress through the learning curve. I can’t tell from the photo, but are those the inverter bank panels, beside the switchgear, in full direct sun. If so, you might consider shading them. High temps can shorten their life span and efficiency, if overheated. Bon chance! GK
Anthony, I hope the subsidy system in the US is different from that which we have in the UK otherwise your halo is slipping. Over on this side of the pond it costs energy supply companies about 4p – 8p to generate 1 kWh of electricity from non-renewable sources without carbon capture, depending upon the type of power station.
If someone in the UK puts solar panels on the roof then the energy supply company is legally obliged to pay them up to 21p per kWh generated depending on the insulation and energy efficiency of their house. Note that I said per kWh generated NOT per kWh fed into the grid. There’s an extra 3.2p if the power is fed into the grid. The energy supply company doesn’t mind because they just factor these extra costs into the prices they charge, so the cost is borne by the people who don’t own their own home or can’t afford the outlay for panels. No wonder we see increasing levels of energy poverty. It’s Robin Hood in reverse – steal from the poor and give to the rich.
Imagine if you were to organize a barbecue for your friends and you make your own burgers. Then McDonalds are obliged to come round and pay you $21 per burger even though you and your friends ate them all yourselves. It’s bizarre!
My neighbour has just put solar panels on his roof. As far as I’m concerned, he has his hand in my wallet.
I am in the process of getting a new roof on my house and I can’t help but wonder the added work required to re-roof a house with a solar panel array. Are there new fads in roofing which allow for servicing of panels and/or roof or is this something so new that such a sollution has yet to be explored?
I have had the opportunity of looking at the design of several multi-kilowatt roof-mounted domestic solar installations. Each of them , IMHO, has suffered from potential future problems of corrosion (particularly at soldered or crimped joints), both at the panel interconnects and around the inverters. The relatively high currents being generated by the low-voltage panels will produce localized heating at each corroded area, and eventually threaten to set on fire any nearby combustible matter (leaves, twigs, moss, debris, whatever).
The homeowner can therefore be reasonably confident that the solar installation will set his house on fire in ten?, twenty?, fifty? years. Much sooner if he lives at the coast, where salt air will speed up the inevitable corrosion.
Thorough routine inspections every year or two (difficult and expensive) will be somewhat helpful. Eventually, (as with most other domestic appliances today) fire prevention or suppression features will be built into the design every element of domestic solar systems. But we seem to be far away from that ideal as yet. [My background includes physics degree and many years of electronic design experience, including in power generation.]
“For the record, I think solar panels are fine, if someone wants to use them, and I don’t have to pay for yours. If it turns out that taxes are subsidizing Anthony in this case, well, I don’t live in California, and the people there have made lots of bad economic public policy decisions. ”
You are paying for solar panel installations all over this country, if you pay taxes and electric bills. The federal tax credit is 30%. Most states have credits for installations in their states. And many electrical companies pay incentives for installation and subsidies for power delivered to the grid. I could care less if Anthony is applying for his tax credits. It is the only way it can make any sense to do it. But we should all care that the Federal government has these stupid tax credits, including the ones for electric cars. Like someone said, robin hood in reverse. Plain and simple we need a simple flat tax code.
Smokey: Turning down free, legal money would be pretty stupid, no?
Legal isn’t always right, of course. Turning it down might be more principled than stupid. I puzzled about this a bit. I also am paying into the tax subsidy and the utility incentive program. Refusing to take advantage of it makes me even more of a victim. And I am putting up big chunk of the capital on what may turn out to be an unsuccessful experiment. (Although the economics in this area favor photovoltaic, without any incentives at all.)
The government incentives should have gone onto buildings that benefit the entire public–schools, libraries, police stations, fire houses, etc. The present program takes taxes from people of limited means who can’t afford to take advantage of it and gives them to a neighbor who is better off. So the commenter above who compares it to an inverted Robin Hood is correct.
But I’m not stupid, so I took the money. Still pondering the problem, though.
Roger Sowell says on July 21, 2012 at 4:01 pm
Probably instituted at the behest of the domestic solar PV manufacturers, which seem not to exist any longer.
Geoff Sherrington says:
July 22, 2012 at 4:47 am
The house is going to shed that heat one or another. Like via window AC units that are no longer being used. If the neighbors are more tha 10m/30ft away I can’t imagine it being a problem.
If you’re thinking row house, then I doubt James would have bought “the largest one at Home Depot”.
beng says:
July 22, 2012 at 6:41 am
More assumptions that may not apply. Are there timers for natural gas water heaters? In particular, downstream of the spur for the pilot light?
An insulating blanket is certainly cheap, but when our conventional, natural gas water heater spang a leak, we replaced it with a tankless heater. Blanket and timer not necessary, efficiency far beyond the old water heater.
There were only a couple months between that and the start of the heating system, but I think it reduced the gas bill 25-30%. That would translate into a long pay back period, but I think we all appreciated not exhausting the hot water during a shower. I didn’t check if I could see a step increase in water consumption (we’re on town water too).
go_home says:. Plain and simple we need a simple flat tax code.
Better idea: nationalise the Federal Reserve so that the federal government not longer has to pay massive interest payments to anonymous, faceless bankers for the money the government itself printed and then bought back from the Fed. to run the country.
Then abolish personal income tax that was probably never constitutional in the first place.
Flat tax code, yes, zero !
Careful on the roof! As a young fellow, I climbed in the Swis Alps (no big walls like the Eiger N.Face, though), in the N.Z South Island Alps, mountains in BC and Yukon (mining exploration) and a 1000′ volcanic neck, Wase Rock, in Nigeria (this was an all-but vertical plug of lava that had frozen in the throat of a volcano and then the cone of the volcano had eroded away). Wase Rock hazards included bats in crevices, baboons throwing rocks at you in the lower part and a pure white cap of pelican guano that looked like snow from 10 – 30 miles away. Pelicans each year from the Benue River nested up on top – there was a significiant guano deposit in the detritus around the foot of the neck that was a source of fertilizer for local farmers,
Years later with a growing family, I noticed that outside window frames and trim around the roof of our house needed painting. It was two floors high at the front and 3 floors at the back. I got a long aluminum extension ladder and up I went up with sandpaper, paint pail etc, in hand. Half way up with the ladder fairly springy, I suddenly was overcome with a panic attack – I had become afraid of heights. Trembling and making my way back down, I confessed to my wife that I was terrified and we hired a painter to do the job, I climbed Kilimanjaro about 20 years ago but it was a 3 day aerobic walk – not as scary as my failed house painting job.. .
You know that saying “stick it where the sun doesn’t shine”? I think the ‘it’ in that sentence may be Britain, because we haven’t seen any sun for weeks! So solar panel are out of the question. Since Iceland uses geothermal energy, which I’m told is rather inexpensive, I may just move there. Mind you, I found this article:
“Plans afoot to send Iceland’s geothermal energy to Europe –
A 745-mile high voltage electrical cable would carry power under the sea.”
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/04/plans-afoot-to-tap-icelands-geothermal-energy-with-745-mile-cable/
Colin Porter wrote:
“Has the publisher of the world’s most popular site on the science and politics of climate change sold his soul to the devil?
Climb down from your high horse Mr. Porter. Are you going to add to the warmist propaganda that Anthony is funded by the fossil fuel industry by suggesting that he is also (and at the same time) being paid by the solar industry to promote their products?
That is a small array of panels on a small roof, not a forest of wind turbines harvesting subsidies. Anthony ain’t Ted Turner. If there is any financial motive, it is that of a regular guy struggling to pay the bills, like the rest of us.
Can you imagine Al Gore taking a break from jetting round the world to lucrative speaking engagements and climate conferences by saying “I have an important project to finish this weekend, so I’ll be offline much of the weekend” because he personally has to install, or supervise the installation of, some solar panels on one of his expansive homes?
Do you think if someone asked Al Gore how efficient his panels had been in the last six months, factoring in such things as the number of overcast days, that he would be able to give a coherent answer? I don’t.
Anthony blogs about this kind of stuff. Curiosity was probably as big a factor in his decision. Many of us may be forced to do similar for purely financial reasons. It will be interesting to read the reports, of someone well qualified in the subject, on their personal experience with using solar panels on a typical domestic scale.
Avril Tyrell says:
July 22, 2012 at 8:34 am
“Plans afoot to send Iceland’s geothermal energy to Europe –
A 745-mile high voltage electrical cable would carry power under the sea.”
There is no sea 745 miles above the Earth!
Keith Pearson, formerly bikermailman, Anonymous no longer says:
July 22, 2012 at 5:59 am
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Agree with the ridge vent. Better to install controlled inlet for various seasons. Also provide option (open attic door, louvered vent, etc) to allow ventilation of whole house via open windows when outside temp warrants. When the wind is blowing across the ridge vent it provides an impressive air flow through the windows. Use common sense. On warm spring or fall days you can heat and on cool summer days/nights you can cool. Either way it’s still fresh air. It’s common sense. Don’t wait until the government tells you you must do it.
I trust Anthony, He’s fully capable of instrumenting his installation for us to see and I hope he does.
Smokey says:
What’s your point, Alvin? Turning down free, legal money would be pretty stupid, no?
If subsidized,
Legal? sure.
Free Money? this is an Oxymoron. There is no such thing as free money, if there were it’d clearly be valueless.
Stupid? = no = curious or ignorant or foolish &/or Greedy + unethical, depending on motivation.
Topic: Greenland’s ice melting
What happens to water when ice in the water melts? The water gets colder.
If Greenland’s ice is melting as alarmists assert, then why is the water surrounding Greenland warmer than usual?
See the red and orange-colored areas surrounding Greenland in the map at the link below.
http://weather.unisys.com/surface/sst_anom_new.gif