Newsbytes: Green Energy Transition: Germany Fears De-Industrialization

From Dr. Benny Peiser at The GWPF

As a result of Germany’s green energy transition, electricity prices are exploding. Consumers and businesses are paying the price while Germany faces gradual de-industrialisation. Economists estimate that the cost of the green energy transition will total 170 billion Euros by 2020. This is more than double of what Germany would have to write off if Greece were to withdraw from the monetary union. “The de-industrialization has already begun,” the EU Energy Commissioner Guenther Oettinger has warned. —Handelsblatt, 23 May 2012

 

Opposition to a drilling technique known as hydraulic fracturing has slowed the development of natural gas in Europe, creating export opportunities for U.S. producers hurt by low prices and a glut of gas at home. By 2020, Europe will be using more shale gas produced in the U.S. than from domestic fracking, Wood Mackenzie estimates. –Katarzyna Klimasinska, Bloomberg 23 May 2012

Investments in renewable energy could be put on hold while European governments develop clear policies on shale gas, according to a biomass energy expert. The prospect of increasing production of cheap shale gas in Europe has impacted investors’ forward planning, Chris Moore, CEO of MGT Power told a forest industry conference in London on Thursday. “If anything, it’s going to cause a waiting period, and that’s bad for renewable energy. You’re going to see a lot of question marks on renewables and their affordability,” said Moore. —Environmental Finance, 17 May 2012

The Energy Bill constitutes a disastrous move towards a centrally planned energy economy with a high level of control over which forms of energy generation will be favoured and which will be stifled. The government even seeks to regulate the prices and profits of energy generation. –Nigel Lawson, The Global Warming Policy Foundation, 23 May 2012

At a time when most major economies are gradually returning to cheap and abundant fossil fuels, mainly in form of coal and natural gas, Britain alone seems prepared to sacrifice its economic competitiveness and recovery by opting for the most expensive forms of energy. –Benny Peiser, The Global Warming Policy Foundation, 23 May 2012

Those who doubt that market forces still have the power to transform the world aren’t paying attention to America’s revitalized energy sector. Prices more than policy are driving these remarkable changes. Other problems to be fixed, rising CO2 emissions, for example, will also yield to the indomitable pressure of price, if carbon is taxed. While Washington squabbled over which energy direction to take, and which energy bill to kill, the markets moved us in exactly the direction the country should go — toward cheap, plentiful energy. –Joel Kurtzman, The Wall Street Journal, 22 May 2012

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Vince Causey

Maybe Germany should move their manufacturing base to Greece – Lord knows they would be glad of the work – and the Germans can pursue a service economy, say – oh I dunno – how about finance?

Hoser

“Other problems to be fixed, rising CO2 emissions, for example, will also yield to the indomitable pressure of price, if carbon is taxed.”
Oh sure, that makes sense. When you are in a hole, the solution is to dig. Idiots.
Market forces will work just fine, as long as people want the comforts of civilization. If they want a short, hard life, then they happily go green.

iI have seen in a German program on Monday that the power lines from the north sea to the south of Germany are delayed by courts, as many people don’t want the power lines in front of the house. They want them in the underground, which makes it more expensive and takes even longer.

R Alanko

“gradual de-industrialisation”
A feature, not a bug.

Neil Jones

And on a lighter note…”Cars will be banned from London and all other cities across Europe under a draconian EU masterplan to cut CO2 emissions by 60 per cent over the next 40 years. “
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/8411336/EU-to-ban-cars-from-cities-by-2050.html

RockyRoad

Six companies are planning on introducing cold fusion products–ranging from large industrial units down to home units–in the next year; some as early as this summer. That’s where I believe the energy paradigm will shift, and in a gargantuan way; five years from now crude oil will be used primarily in petrochemicals.

Too bad. Industrialization is what the Germans do best.As the true cost of “greening” begins to appear,
Common citizens are going to reject it.
AGW “belief” or not, The cure is worse than the disease.

Peter Miller

A couple of cold winters, plus brown outs and black outs, should help the German people and politicians realise that greenie almost always means goofy, pointless and expensive.
It is truly incredible how much money is being wasted by the countries of Western Europe and the United States in trying to solve the non-problem of rising carbon dioxide levels from almost nothing to a little more than almost nothing.

Given the excellence of German engineering, coupled with a population that more than probably any country in the world can pull together and achieve a common goal, if Germany can’t sustain a renewable energy economy, than no one can.

Deindustrialization has always been the plan, or at least the desire. Mostly unstated, but sometimes stated. The U.S., though so far it has escaped the worst of it thanks to conservatives, is potentially no different than Europe. If the cap & trade bill, that passed the U.S. House, that mandated 83% CO2 cuts by 2050 (true!), had made it to Obama, we would be on our way to disaster. A replay of my previous comment:
If this AGW scare doesn’t work, the liberal elite econuts will rebrand and repackage and reposition. Obama’s Science Czar’s John Holdren’s past call (before the AGW scare) to “de-develop the United States” & create a “stable low consumption economy” is the political expression of the leftist dream, and they will push and push for that. Driving it all is secular guilt, and the dream of their own Eden. But the raw feeling of their pastoral fantasy is not dressed in wonkish words such “a stable low consumption economy,” but THIS:
“We have wished, we ecofreaks, for a disaster or for a social change to come and bomb us into Stone Age, where we might live like Indians in our valley, with our localism, our appropriate technology, our gardens, our homemade religion.” –Stewart Brand, Whole Earth Catalogue
They see draconian CO2 cuts as the ticket to fold up industrial civilization, if all goes “well.” But unfortunately, for them, and everybody else, it wouldn’t lead to this Utopian Eden. An Albanian told the story of what happened to their country with the collapse of communism (and just some supply systems): “Even the trees lining the roads were chopped down.”
It would be no Garden of Eden. I could say that instead it would be like a Mad Max world — but it’d be much worse. No desert idealism of clean and clean-cut ruffians. Tons of people (at first), and just cutting discomfort, cold, disease, dirtiness, dysentery, hunger, and violence.
You’d think at some point, let’s say after severe CO2 caps are implemented, and other problems ensued, people would see it coming, and repeal… But there would possibly be too much inertia, and once a series of collapses begin, it may be impossible to halt the descent.

Hey RockyRoad, How come only you know about these impending Cold Fusion Reactors. The last I heard CF still had not been achieved.Although, I certainly hope that you are correct, Sir.

Wade

RockyRoad says:
May 24, 2012 at 9:06 am
Six companies are planning on introducing cold fusion products–ranging from large industrial units down to home units–in the next year; some as early as this summer.

I just have one answer:

It should be quite obvious to anyone with even a modicum of economics savvy that de-industrialization was the entire point. The notion is to eliminate business and put the financial system so far under water that there can be no military. This is what I call “the colder war” where Russia and China defeat the West without needing an arms race. They can simply get the Western powers into a state where they can’t afford a military and have no means to arm and equip one.
There are only two major military expansions currently underway on the planet: China and Russia and their allies. Neither of those countries are buying into the “green energy” hype. The US Army is now the slated in 2 years to be smaller than it has been since 1940, the Navy smallest since 1915, and the Air Force since it has been in existence. Meanwhile, China and Russia are engaging in a military expansion. Once steel production and energy production are eliminated in the West, there is nothing that can be done to counter anything these countries might want to do anywhere on the planet. We wouldn’t be able to build tanks if we wanted to while they can build as many as they want.
“Green Energy” and government debt are national security hazards. If you have no factories and no power for them, you can’t build airplanes.

cui bono

My country, which through many strokes of brilliance and ingenuity led the world into the Scientific Revolution, the agricultural revolution and the industrial revolution, is now determined to lead it into the stupidity revolution. Dunces hats all round at Eton and Westminster.

MarkW

Fears deindustrialization???
I thought that was the goal.

Ian W

Is the aim to push and push until eventually there is an insurrection that can be a crisis that will not be put to waste?

Bob the Swiss

The unbelievable is that a rich country like Switzerland is actually pushing to wind farm and photovoltaic solar energy. The government don’t realize the huge costs that will kill the economy of the country and the example of bad economy results is actually realized (Spain).
Government reaction will arrive too late and we will have to pay the errors with additional taxes and higher energy prices. Thanks greenies !!!!

SteveSadlov

Coming to California in 2013 (when AB32 really starts to kick in). Of course that’s assuming we make it past 12/20/12. 😉

Gail Combs

Ian W says:
May 24, 2012 at 9:54 am
Is the aim to push and push until eventually there is an insurrection that can be a crisis that will not be put to waste?
___________________________
If you push until the people rebel you can then call in the United Nations troops and impose law, UN style law. Libya shows what happens: http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/04/libyan-militias-could-plunge-country-into-civil-war-ntc-chairman/
Getting rid of the idiots leaves a power vacuum and there will be civil war while who grabs control is decided. Such Chaos allows puppet government to form

What I can’t understand is the post Fukushima attitude toward nuclear power. Unit #1 was the cause of the cascade that resulted in units #2 and #3 melting. Unit 1 melted because unlike units 2-6, it required electric pumps to move cooling water. The other units could use their own decay heat to power steam turbine pumps and were reasonably OK until Unit 1 exploded cutting cooling hoses, pipes, and cables for the other units. It is like saying that a traffic accident involving a 1960’s Corvair should result in shutting down modern automobile production. In fact, the biggest irony is that if the quake had happened two weeks later, it probably would not have resulted in ANY of the plants melting because Unit 1 was to be shut down for decommissioning later in the month.
But even more befuddling is the results: Fukushima, 0 dead, 0 injured, 0 sickened and it looks like there will likely be no long-term health effects. THREE units melted, no injuries. Compare that to 11 dead with the Deepwater Horizon explosion or dozens dead from German sprouts and Colorado cantaloupe or nearly 4,000 dead from a chemical plant accident in India.
The fear of nuclear power is absolutely irrational. The notion of not deploying MODERN plants that would not have suffered the problems Fukushima did because a 1960’s design plant had problems is irrational.
What is going on is the population is being programmed with an irrational fear of nuclear power and an irrational fear of carbon-based energy using things such as “global warming” and over the top hype any time there is any nuclear trouble. I would be much more in fear of a chemical plant near me than a nuclear plant.
Energy is like the food for an economy. You can not expand production of anything without using more energy. If you throttle energy production, you throttle the economy. THAT is the goal here. We are, I believe, under attack in a strategic sense and it is being done through propaganda and computer models and indoctrination that starts at the kindergarten level.

Oh, and I believe folks would do well in reading this post-mortem of Fukushima, too:
http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/nuclear/24-hours-at-fukushima/0

Curiousgeorge

@ Neil Jones says:
May 24, 2012 at 8:59 am
And on a lighter note…”Cars will be banned from London and all other cities across Europe under a draconian EU masterplan to cut CO2 emissions by 60 per cent over the next 40 years. “
***********************************************************************
Given that the majority of demographic movement is towards more people in larger urban environments, and the corresponding increase in the % population living in ungovernable urban slums (and the problems of crime, illness, etc. associated with that), is a recipe for disaster.
They will not be able to provide sufficient mass transit which, in effect, will turn cities into virtual prisons for the inhabitants, and no-go zones for those living outside the city. Ungovernable slums quickly turn into war zones, as local ‘warlords’ take over from the State. This is happening in various parts of the world now.
Read this 2008 paper from the Army War College for more info:
From the New Middle Ages to a New Dark Age: The Decline of the State and U.S. Strategy
http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.army.mil/pubs/display.cfm?PubID=867
Excerpt:
The Rise of Cities and the Emergence
of Alternatively Governed Spaces.

One area in which the New Middle Ages resembles
the Middle Ages of the past is in the importance of cities.
In the medieval world, towns and cities, although much
smaller than those of today, became centers of social
activity and hubs of commerce as well as incubators
of disease. In the last 50 years or so, the rise of cities
has become an enduring and significant trend and has
reached a point at which more than half the world’s
population lives in cities. A possible implication of this
is that cities will increasingly become an alternative
focus to the state as an organizing device for economic,
political, and social activities. Many cities are also
becoming increasingly ungovernable—a trend that can
only feed into what appears to be an impending crisis
of governance at national, regional, and global levels.
The latter half of the 20th century was characterized
by the large-scale migration of population from rural
to urban areas. This movement—and the resulting
transformation of urban spaces—was particularly
pronounced in the developing world. In 1950, New
York was the only city in the world with more than
10 million inhabitants. By 1995, there were 14 such
cities—mostly in the developing world.49 By 2015,
there will be 23—with 19 in the developing world.50
In addition, by 2015, “the number of urban areas with
populations between five and ten million will shoot
from 7 to 37.

Gary Pearse

Eric Simpson: On the effect of de-industrial policies
“But there would possibly be too much inertia, and once a series of collapses begin, it may be impossible to halt the descent.”
This is probably the best storyline for a blockbuster new Hollywood Movie – but we will never see such a movie come out of that town.

Curiousgeorge

Here’s a well known example of what happens when a city is going belly up:
Detroit
*********************************************************************************
Detroit, whose 139 square miles contain 60 percent fewer residents than in 1950, will try to nudge them into a smaller living space by eliminating almost half its streetlights.
As it is, 40 percent of the 88,000 streetlights are broken and the city, whose finances are to be overseen by an appointed board, can’t afford to fix them. Mayor Dave Bing’s plan would create an authority to borrow $160 million to upgrade and reduce the number of streetlights to 46,000. Maintenance would be contracted out, saving the city $10 million a year.
Other U.S. cities have gone partially dark to save money, among them Colorado Springs; Santa Rosa, California; and Rockford, Illinois. Detroit’s plan goes further: It would leave sparsely populated swaths unlit in a community of 713,000 that covers more area than Boston, Buffalo and San Francisco combined. Vacant property and parks account for 37 square miles (96 square kilometers), according to city planners.
“You have to identify those neighborhoods where you want to concentrate your population,” said Chris Brown, Detroit’s chief operating officer. “We’re not going to light distressed areas like we light other areas.”
Detroit’s dwindling income and property-tax revenue have required residents to endure unreliable buses and strained police services throughout the city. Because streetlights are basic to urban life, deciding what areas to illuminate will reshape the city, said Kirk Cheyfitz, co-founder of a project called Detroit143 — named for the 139 square miles of land, plus water — that publicizes neighborhood issues.
More: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-24/half-of-detroit-s-streetlights-may-go-out-as-city-shrinks.html

mwhite

“Energy future debate: How to stop UK’s lights going out”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-18165853
Britains answer?
Copy the Germans

Beale

Evidently Germany doesn’t fear de-industrialization enough, at least not yet.

George Steiner

German de-industrialization should be good for USA, Japan, China. Bad for the Germans. But that will learn them.

Cam_S

Germans giving up on emissions trading because of EU debt.
German bourse scraps EU carbon emissions trading
http://uk.reuters.com/assets/print?aid=UKBRE84L0SN20120522

jim heath

I’m in Brisbane Aussie, in the last state election I was watching the results come in and couln’t help noticing the green votes came from the cities. It just made me think that the people that acually work with the land and survive from it are well aware it has to be managed. I had an instant mental picture of the town greenie cultivating his tomato plant on the townhouse verandah. Then recalled the best bumper sticker I’ve seen,(the only true wilderness is between a greenies ears)

Milwaukee Bob

… electricity prices are exploding …
… has slowed the development of natural gas in Europe …
… renewable energy could be put on hold …
… constitutes a disastrous move towards a centrally planned energy economy …
… seems prepared to sacrifice its economic competitiveness and recovery …
… who doubt that market forces … aren’t paying attention …

One would think that after they shot themselves in the foot the first time – – they would have stopped pulling the trigger.
”You can fool some of the people all of the time, and … “
Unfortunately in Europe, that “some” is a majority.
Question is – how many fools do we have here in the US?
We’ll know the answer Nov. 7.

phlogiston

This BBC headline today say it all: “Eurozone downturn accelerating”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18186972
Part of this is energy foolishness, part the debt crisis, but a significant part is actually already from climate cooling – this will sustain the economic downturn in the coming years.

Austin

What was the Morgenthau Plan?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morgenthau_Plan

Dan in California

George says: May 24, 2012 at 10:29 am
What I can’t understand is the post Fukushima attitude toward nuclear power. …..
———————————————————————-
Nuke power plant construction is running fast in China, Korea, Russia, India, and several other countries. http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/info.html#education Only the West and Japan are turning away from the safety, economy, low emissions, and long-term fuel resources of nuclear generated electricity. It seems that our “leaders” truly don’t understand that cheap energy increases quality of living. Indeed, the current US President campaigned on a platform of “Under my administration, energy prices will necessarily skyrocket”

Back to the Dark Ages.
In the year 2100, If someone were to produce a graph of human misery in the previous 150 years
It would look like a hockey stick.

Ally E.

I think the people everywhere have turned already. It’s the politicians who have to catch up with them.

Roy

George said:
There are only two major military expansions currently underway on the planet: China and Russia and their allies. Neither of those countries are buying into the “green energy” hype. The US Army is now the slated in 2 years to be smaller than it has been since 1940, the Navy smallest since 1915, and the Air Force since it has been in existence. Meanwhile, China and Russia are engaging in a military expansion.
I don’t think history is pre-determined, but nevertheless there seem to be parallels between the position of the United States today and that of Great Britain just over 100 years ago which should be troubling to Americans. The power of the US compared to other nations was probably at its greatest just after the collapse of Communism a little more than 20 years ago but, as George said, it is now in decline, though perhaps not irretrievably.
British power was at its peak at the time of Queen Victoria’s Diamond Jubilee in June 1897. Ironically we will be celebrating the Diamond Jubilee of Queen Elizabeth in just over a week’s time. The high point of the celebrations in June 1897 was the naval review at Spithead where no fewer than 165 British warships sailed past. Rudyard Kipling was so overawed by the display of sea power that he wrote:
Never dreamed that there was anything like it under Heaven. It was beyond words— beyond any description!
Nevertheless, even though British power was apparently at its greatest, in celebration of the Diamond Jubilee Kipling had written the poem Recessional in which he correctly foresaw the decline of British power and the end of the British Empire.
Recessional
God of our fathers, known of old—
Lord of our far-flung battle line—
Beneath whose awful hand we hold
Dominion over palm and pine—
Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
Lest we forget—lest we forget!
The tumult and the shouting dies—
The Captains and the Kings depart—
Still stands Thine ancient sacrifice,
An humble and a contrite heart.
Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
Lest we forget—lest we forget!
Far-called our navies melt away—
On dune and headland sinks the fire—
Lo, all our pomp of yesterday
Is one with Nineveh and Tyre!
Judge of the Nations, spare us yet,
Lest we forget—lest we forget!
If, drunk with sight of power, we loose
Wild tongues that have not Thee in awe—
Such boastings as the Gentiles use,
Or lesser breeds without the Law—
Lord God of Hosts, be with us yet,
Lest we forget—lest we forget!
For heathen heart that puts her trust
In reeking tube and iron shard—
All valiant dust that builds on dust,
And guarding calls not Thee to guard.
For frantic boast and foolish word,
Thy Mercy on Thy People, Lord!
Amen.
Of course the challenge to the US from China and other powers might fizzle out, as did the economic challenge from Japan. Who knows? But perhaps in another 40 years or so historians will look back at this time and say that the costs of green policies were the last straw which led to US pomp and power becoming, in Kipling’s words, “one with Nineveh and Tyre.”

The title is: “Germany Fears De-Industrialization”. But the actual citation is: “The de-industrialization has already begun,” the EU Energy Commissioner Guenther Oettinger has warned.
Thus Germany does not fear anything, but the puppet of the nuclear lobby is trying to scare Germany.
Reading comprehension is again severely limited at WUWT. It’s a pity, as a scientist I like sceptics. But since reading this blog, I am sure that if the theory of man made climate change will be refuted, it will be by a scientist and not by this community. Try harder.

freezeframe

Rockyroad, Dude, I have a cold fusion system ready to market soon. Just need maybe half a billion to bring it to market. Are you tight with Mr. O.? Maybe put in a good word for me and we can get this deal done and save the world.

DirkH

It’s difficult to say whether the current German politicians of all parties are incompetent or working for a foreign power. Infiltration has happened since the 70ies; at that time the Soviets and the East Germans wanted to control first of all the SPD (the Guillaume affair).
Later Gorbachev played the nice guy in public while secretly strengthening the KGB and trying to get influence over the “peace movement” aka the Greens; while the West was playing the same game in Russia.
Putin is a KGB man and the KGB practically rules Russia. Maybe Germany as well.
So what can we expect? Well, more ruinous policies across the EU. What the Soviets always wanted was bring the entirety of Europe under their control.
Oh, and if an accident happens to Romney; Obama would have more flexibility in his second term as you know… if he doesn’t lose the election to Uncommitted.

William McClenney

SteveSadlov says:
May 24, 2012 at 10:19 am
Coming to California in 2013 (when AB32 really starts to kick in).
Hmph! The Gerries got nuthin on us Californios! Nor the Limeys! We went one further!
We didn’t merely have our elected representatives pass AB32 and SB375, as other nations have similarly done, we Californios, democratically mind you, defeated Proposition 23 by popular vote!
We went all-in as a people! And I, for one, will now make every effort to see that these two laws are implemented to their fullest. Why? Because I am old enough, and have no skin in the game (no offspring in the offing), which translates to simply pure entertainment value.
“We” Californios voted to commit seppuku. Would it be considered unpatriotic to cheer them/us on?
And now a word from our sponsors:
(familiar music such as Dut ta dah dut dot DAH!!!!)
“If you thought last summer’s San Diego, south Orange County blackout was cool, you will be addicted to the new reality primetime show “The Power Hunger Games”, debuting in the first quarter of 2013. See Californios bake live on the freeways when side-street stoplights go kaput, Sigalerts a sick joke when broadcasting anything hits the electron/brick wall! While our carbon-intensive (to manufacture) batteries last, we will bring you sustainable coverage of un-permitted generators sputtering to a stop as they run out of California boutique carbon-based fuels which can no longer be pumped into EPA-certified, low VOC gas cans when the “juice” dries up. You will be eye-witnesses when cellphone batteries flicker-out and all that is left is……….The Power Hunger Games………….Stay tuned………/sarc

May you live in interesting times.

DirkH

Victor Venema says:
May 24, 2012 at 4:10 pm
“The title is: “Germany Fears De-Industrialization”. But the actual citation is: “The de-industrialization has already begun,” the EU Energy Commissioner Guenther Oettinger has warned.
Thus Germany does not fear anything, but the puppet of the nuclear lobby is trying to scare Germany.”
Of course the deindustrialization has begun. An aluminium smelter in Voerde has declared insolvency. Thyssen wants to get out of steel entirely and plans to sell its steel daughter Inoxum to a Finnish company called Outukumpu who will probably dismantle the German steelmills and sell’em to China or India.
Energy-intensive industries have no future in Germany and that’s how the Greens have always wanted it – They always wanted higher energy prices to create an incentive to use less. Now that it’s happening you and the Greens say it’s only a lie by the “the puppet of the nuclear lobby”? Oh please.
Trittin, ex-communist and now boss of the Greens, is on the record to have declared that “gasoline is till not expensive enough, it needs to go up to 5 D-Mark” – that was quite a while back. Recently he was aked “Mr. Trittin, gasoline is reaching 1.70 EUR (about 3.40 D-Mark) (a liter); are you happy about that?” He didn’t answer the question.
The Greens are lying through their teeth – they WANTED extreme energy prices, they GOT them and now they pretend they never wanted it.

DirkH

Vince Causey says:
May 24, 2012 at 8:26 am
“Maybe Germany should move their manufacturing base to Greece – Lord knows they would be glad of the work – and the Germans can pursue a service economy, say – oh I dunno – how about finance?”
The reason for the uncompetitiveness of Greece is the same as alway:
Bloated state bueraucracy, most big companies state-owned – the largest private company is Hellenic Bottling, the local Coke licensee – the larger companies have NOT been privatized even though it was demanded and promised many times over the past 3 years. Low productivity and high wages and pensions in the state-owned companies.
So, if we moved our manufacturing to Greece, Volkswagens would in the future be build by Greek state employees with inflated wages, a low productivity and very likely without any quality check that deserves its names. And you could buy a Volkswagen starting at 100,000 EUR and it would fall apart right after delivery.
I’m not sure how this would help anyone.

Given that Germany’s industrial might is supposed to pay to save the Euro this does look like the standard left hand right hand problem.

Dear DirkH . I was not discussing the De-Industrilization of Germany, but the errors in the post.
And that error still stands, except if you are Germany and your personal fear justifies the headline/lie: “Germany fears De-Industralisation”. And I did not know that I am the Greens.
On your topic: The world economy is not doing well, but the energy and commodity prices are still very high. Once the world economy is running better again, the prices will be very high. Then the much more energy and resource efficient German economy will still perform, the USA will crumble.
You see a green conspiracy against Germany that started in the 70ies? Then Germany is doing pretty well after 40 years and I still have some American optimism left for the next 40 years in Germany. No idea where the USA will stand in 40 years. Maybe something like Russia, a regional power with nuclear weapons and a dysfunctional government.

Dan in California

freezeframe says: May 24, 2012 at 5:41 pm
Rockyroad, Dude, I have a cold fusion system ready to market soon. Just need maybe half a billion to bring it to market. Are you tight with Mr. O.? Maybe put in a good word for me and we can get this deal done and save the world.
——————————————————————
Much more than a half a billion $ has been spent every year in the US alone on hot fusion development, and commercialization has been 20 years away for more than 40 years. Funding for cold fusion research is two orders of magnitude less, but more excess energy has been produced than by hot fusion organizations. US Navy SPAWAR and Stanford Research International are quite credible and both organizations can demonstrate cold fusion at will. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VymhJCcNBBc I, for one, am not happy that my government chooses to spend so much on one and so little on the other. Cut the big one in half and increase the little one by a factor of 10, and you save more than a half billion every year.

RockyRoad

RobRoy says:
May 24, 2012 at 9:24 am

Hey RockyRoad, How come only you know about these impending Cold Fusion Reactors. The last I heard CF still had not been achieved. Although, I certainly hope that you are correct, Sir.

There are numerous reports and web sites that track recent developments. Here’s one I use:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/News:Cold_Fusion
And another: http://world.std.com/~mica/cft.html
One of the six companies I mentioned, a US concern called Brillouin Energy Corp, claims to have perfected the CF process with the generation of elemental helium from hydrogen using nickel simply as a catylist. (Some companies are still at the stage where hydrogen is combined with nickel to produce copper, but that’s apparently an incomplete process.)
Wade says:
May 24, 2012 at 9:35 am

RockyRoad says:
May 24, 2012 at 9:06 am
Six companies are planning on introducing cold fusion products–ranging from large industrial units down to home units–in the next year; some as early as this summer.
I just have one answer: “The Simpsons – perpetual motion machine & laws…”

Nobody working on LENR/LANR/CF claims it is a “perpetual motion machine”, Wade. Only those that don’t understand the process make such claims—which are unfounded, of course. And lest you think this is a joke, consider these recent developments at M.I.T.:

(Start at the 5:00 minute mark)
Professor Hagelstein’s own description in video format:
http://cryptogon.com/?p=28977
freezeframe says:
May 24, 2012 at 5:41 pm

Rockyroad, Dude, I have a cold fusion system ready to market soon. Just need maybe half a billion to bring it to market. Are you tight with Mr. O.? Maybe put in a good word for me and we can get this deal done and save the world.

Me tight with Mr O? Hardly. He and I see the world as polar opposites. He uses a “Yes We Can” approach; I use a “Yes I Can” approach. The difference is fundamental and astounding. And considering his “luck” with capital investment in “green” technologies, I’d go with someone who has expertise in capital investment. May I suggest a wise alternative?
Mr. R, of course.

Pull My Finger

Marshall Foch will be pleased, this is exactly what he wanted to happen to Germany in 1918.

Vince Causey

DirkH
“So, if we moved our manufacturing to Greece, Volkswagens would in the future be build by Greek state employees with inflated wages, a low productivity and very likely without any quality check that deserves its names. And you could buy a Volkswagen starting at 100,000 EUR and it would fall apart right after delivery.
I’m not sure how this would help anyone.”
Indeed. But that assumes that the Germans just hand over the licence to produce cars to the Greeks. My plan calls for the VW to move their factories to Greece just as many Western factories have opened in China. The working times will be the same per employee as for the German workers; the wages will be as VW decide to pay them. If they can’t turn up on time and press the right buttons on the production lines, they are free to go back to the soup kitchens.
Of course, the German workers left behind would not be happy – not at all.