Short notice – this is on NOW.
Worth watching, even if only for how they justify saying ‘black carbon and other “short-lived” greenhouse gases.’. I didn’t know black carbon was a gas. Here’s the release:
On Thursday, May 24, at 12 NOON EASTERN DAYLIGHT TIME / 9:00 AM PACIFIC DAYLIGHT TIME, a group of internationally acclaimed scientists will present to the California Air Resources Board findings on black carbon and other “short-lived” greenhouse gases.
The presentation will be webcast. For more information, see the email below and visit http://www.cal-span.org.
MEDIA ADVISORY: Leading scientists to present findings on black carbon and climate change to California Air Resources Board
Presentation to be Webcast – visit http://www.cal-span.org for details.
Thursday, May 24, 2012 at 9:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time
SACRAMENTO – On Thursday, May 24, six internationally recognized scientists will describe their findings on black carbon and other ‘short-lived’ greenhouse gases to the California Air Resources Board.
Their research will demonstrate that focusing on methane, hydrofluorocarbons, and black carbon would be a highly effective strategy to mitigate impacts of climate change especially in Arctic regions.
The studies to be presented are among a body of growing research indicating the dangers posed by black carbon. On Saturday, the G8 announced that it will formally join the Climate and Clean Air Coalition to Reduce Short-Lived Climate Pollutants (launched in February) complementing efforts to address carbon dioxide emissions.
What: Presentation of Research Findings on Short-Lived Climate Pollutants
Who:
Dr. Mark Jacobson, Professor Civil and Environmental Engineering, Stanford
Dr. V. Ramanathan, Professor Scripps Instit. of Oceanography, UC San Diego
Dr. Marc L. Fischer, Staff Scientist, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
Dr. Erika Sasser, Senior Policy Advisor, U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
Dr. Alan Lloyd, President, International Council on Clean Transportation
Mr. Durwood Zaelke, President, Institute for Governance and Sustainable Development
Where:
Byron Sher Auditorium
CalEPA Headquarters, 2nd Floor
1001 I Street, Sacramento, California 95814
When: 9:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Thursday, May 24th, 2012
NOTE: THIS PRESENTATION WILL BE WEBCAST. Visit http://www.cal-span.org for details.
ARB’s mission is to promote and protect public health, welfare, and ecological resources through effective reduction of air pollutants while recognizing and considering effects on the economy. The ARB oversees all air pollution control efforts in California to attain and maintain health based air quality standards.
Office of Communications 1001 I Street, Sacramento CA 95814. Ph:
(916) 322-2990
It appears that Mr. Zaelke is more lawyer than scientist. Why was he included? He’s worked for the Sierra Club Legal Defense Fund and previously as Special Litigation Attorney with the Department of Justice. He and his org. INECE, seem to be in agreement with the UN’s Agenda 21 ( http://www.inece.org/Newsletter6.pdf ). There was an article in the Sacramento Bee today about the residents of El Dorado County complaining that a lot is being done by various govenmental groups to insitute this program in their county. Though they don’t have much direct evidence of that. I find it interesting that Zaelke was described as a top scientist.
I was hoping someone would post the substance of what was said.
Judging by the limited information above, it looks like more of the ‘carbon is dirty’ propaganda that the current Australian government pumps out continously. Which seeks to blur the distinction between carbon dioxide and particulate carbon, ie soot in the public’s mind.
@Werner Brozek says:
>>”Black Carbon is a solid carbon particle, however small it may be. It is considered an aerosol due to its very small size, as it remains suspended in the air for some time, and it is carried by air movement or turbulence into higher layers of our atmosphere.”
>So I guess the answer is that while black carbon is really a solid, it is thought of as a gas due to its small size as it does not drop to earth like a clump of coal.
+++++++++++++
No, it is thought of as a aerosol. Aerosols are not gases. It does drop to earth as a lump. Small particles, particularly when they are really small, join together quite rapidly. Some, like giant dendritic particles, have a thousand or more small particles stuck together randomly like an handful of those marble shaped magnets.
True BC is about 640 times the heating power of CO2 if you over-rate CO2 by a factor of 3 or 4 (on a per kg basis) so it is pretty powerful. It gets hot from sunlight and immediately heats the surrounding gases. BC is found in aircraft flying at 40,000 ft. It used to be said (by the IPCC) that it fell to earth quickly so it was of only local consequence. Investigations made flying model aircraft in the Indian Brown Cloud found significantly more heating than was expected.
There is probably a lot less BC floating around than there used to be because almost all the annual forest and grass burning in North America has been stopped. Traditionally the fires were used to clear forest to make better grazing for deer. For example, all the open areas in Northern Alberta were maintained artificially because the deer population does much better on grassland than in the thick woods.
It seems to me unlikely that BC changes the temperature of the atmosphere permanently. The atmosphere is very effective at venting additional heat from whatever source. Eliminating it entirely might bring some unwanted cooling but not much.
David Corcoran says:
“…The U6 unemployment for California is over 20% and increasing. Some family members have been lightly or unemployed since the recession began. The factory I work at is considering moving to Texas when our lease expires. This state is doomed, it’s becoming like a state-wide Detroit.”
The big fault in California is not the San Andreas Fault, but financial default.
Werner Brozek says:
“…So I guess the answer is that while black carbon is really a solid, it is thought of as a gas due to its small size as it does not drop to earth like a clump of coal.”
Just tell them that it’s clear carbon, because you get the same carbon atoms as in diamonds!
Speaking of Detroit, plastered on Drudge:
Half of Detroit’s Streetlights May Go Out as City Shrinks
True BC is about 640 times the heating power of CO2 if you over-rate CO2 by a factor of 3 or 4 (on a per kg basis) so it is pretty powerful. It gets hot from sunlight and immediately heats the surrounding gases.
Just because BC heats the atmosphere, it doesn’t follow it warms the climate. The heating results from intercepting sunlight that would otherwise penetrate lower in the atmosphere, most of it reaching the surface.
As a general rule the higher heat is in atmosphere the sooner it will be radiated out to space. So the overall effect of BC is to reduce the time solar energy remains in the Earth’s climate, thus cooling the climate.
The above will be true as long as BC doesn’t change the Earth’s albedo, which it likely does, reducing the Earth’s albedo, because it is darker than the Earth’s surface. But this complicated by BC also seeding clouds.
The experience from India is that substantial amounts of BC reach the mid to upper troposphere. (in the dry season) and the net effect is surface cooling. So overall it appears the sunlight interception effect is larger than the albedo effect.
However, this effect disappears in the wet season. So how much BC affects the climate in an area is strongly related to its rainfall regime.
TANSTAAFL says:
Carbon is a gas.
It is if it’s hot enough. When I tried to check how hot this is one website gave 4098 K, another gave 5100.15 K. So there appears to be some confusion about how hot is “hot enough”…
“”””” Werner Brozek says:
May 24, 2012 at 1:13 pm
George E. Smith; says:
May 24, 2012 at 10:46 am
This is an example of what happens, when they don’t teach English grammar any more.
Here are other examples. “””””
Way to go Werner; I see you play the game well !!
George
@george E. Smith
I like this one:-
I spent last weekend with my relatives on their ranch. Because he has a badly sprained wrist, I had to help my uncle jack off his horse.
Every McDonald’s drive-through I’ve seen here in California has a sign, “Braille menu available upon request.”
Ponder that one a bit. Multiple layers of WUWT involved.
hmm, i guess that asian guy with his fake degree didn’t make the cut this time.
About the farmer and his bull; you need to distinguish solecism and humor. I find no errors in that notice!